Latest / Into the Channel ⚽️ A Podcast Primarily About Women's Football / 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 JACQUI OATLEY on England and EURO 2025's Best Moments | EP 160

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🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 JACQUI OATLEY on England and EURO 2025's Best Moments | EP 160 · Into the Channel ⚽️ A Podcast Primarily About Women's Football

0:03
Okay, welcome to Into the Channel podcast Primer Owens
0:08
football. I'm your host, Dino de
0:09
Suspicious, and today we're joined by a very special guest.
0:12
We'll be introduced by my host, Mr. Grant Angle.
0:15
What's up, man? I'm feeling fantastic buddy, and
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that is because we are joined by our show's favorite broadcaster
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and a true media trailblazer. In 2005 she became the first
0:26
woman to call a match on the British network radio and in
0:29
2007 she was the first woman to provide commentary on Match of
0:32
the Day, the historic BBC television program watched by
0:35
10s of millions of football fans every season. 15 years later in
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2022, she was still smashing glass ceilings when she was the
0:42
first woman to deliver play by play for a World Cup match
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broadcast right here in the United States of America.
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But for the purposes of today's discussion, we'll reflect on her
0:51
latest work at the 2025 Women's Euro, where by my count, she
0:55
called it incredible. 16 matches over the course of 25 days,
1:00
including both semi finals and the final in what can only be
1:03
described as a legendary performance from a legendary
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broadcaster. It is truly an honor and a
1:09
privilege to welcome to the program Jackie Oatley.
1:13
Wow, what an introduction. I must come again.
1:16
Guys are really nice. I'll, I'll write a whole
1:19
different one. I mean, you have so many
1:20
accomplishments. I'll have I'll have another
1:22
minute on you next time. Oh, God bless you.
1:24
That's very kind. Thank you.
1:25
Lovely to be with you. Yes.
1:27
Thank you so much for joining us.
1:28
I'm just about over the jet lag. I'm just about just about
1:32
getting there. Must have been a a trek.
1:35
And you guys, well, you and Lori Lindsay were the only two.
1:38
I think that that put more hours on tape for the euro.
1:41
We did 12 shows in 12 days. So we were like, we we just ran
1:44
ourselves ragged. But I can't imagine being doing
1:48
six of seven knockout stage matches.
1:50
That must have been an absolute marathon.
1:53
All the extra time and penalties as well.
1:55
But, but you know what it was, it was honestly such a
1:57
privilege. Genuinely, I mean that because
1:59
I'd much rather be doing 16 games in 3 1/2 weeks and coming
2:03
home thinking, wow, what just happened than than watching at
2:06
home thinking I'd love to have been doing that.
2:08
So yeah, I, I absolutely loved it.
2:10
And for Fox to put the faith in us to do that many games and to,
2:15
you know, to be effectively, well, one of the, one of the
2:19
prominent voices out there. There are others of course as
2:21
well, John and JP who did a brilliant job, but it was just
2:24
brilliant to be asked to do it. And it really was an absolute
2:27
buzz. And I, I absolutely loved it.
2:29
Huge amounts of work goes into it.
2:31
Huge amounts. I did 3 weeks solid before I
2:34
left, which is mostly the the player.
2:37
Not just stats but background and facts and information and
2:40
literally Nuggets about their private lives, meaning how they
2:45
got started in football. Whether it was an older brother
2:47
or whether it was a twin sister or literally all these things
2:50
which never see the light of day of course, but occasionally
2:53
there might be something that's relevant.
2:54
So that's all part of it. I actually love delving deep
2:58
into the backgrounds of each of the players, and it's really
3:00
fascinating to see the patterns of how these players got into it
3:03
in different countries, and then of course to see them perform on
3:07
the big stage like that. So it really was an absolute
3:10
thrill to do it. So many great moments in this
3:12
tournament. Walking away from this
3:13
tournament, what's going to be your one flashbulb memory where
3:16
you're just like, wow, that that encapsulates the tournament?
3:19
I think possibly the Lucy bronze header to begin the comeback for
3:26
England the two one in the quarter final against Sweden.
3:31
I think because you're thinking Sweden have been all over
3:34
England. The holders are going out
3:37
barring another, you know, come back something crazy.
3:40
And for Lucy Bruns of all players to score that goal in
3:43
the manner she did and she tends to score in major finals all bar
3:46
one she scored in which is extraordinary from right back.
3:49
I think you then started to feel that turn around and just every
3:52
Michelle Azuman moment was insane, really.
3:56
But I think that moment, because then that precipitated this
4:00
whole, Oh my goodness, they're going to do it again and they're
4:03
going to do it again and they're going to do it again.
4:04
And they did do it again and they beat the number one side in
4:07
Europe in the end. So maybe that moment, and I
4:11
don't think that's being too Anglocentric about it because
4:13
England did win the tournament and most people didn't think
4:16
they would given the pretty terrible start they had.
4:20
So I think that was that was just a oh, my goodness, proper
4:24
English moment. And Lucy Bronze has toughed it
4:27
out and it's dragging them back into it.
4:30
But there were so many wonderful moments in that tournament.
4:33
I think I have to have to mention also the Rio Louis
4:36
Shamili late, late equalizer, which sent Switzerland through
4:41
against Finland into the knockout stages.
4:44
And to have the host nation continuing into the knockout
4:46
stages was absolutely huge as well.
4:48
So that that's another big one because you need the host nation
4:51
to perform. And I loved watching Switzerland
4:54
and they surprised me. I don't mind admitting lots of
4:56
things that surprised me in this tournament.
4:58
And the way their young players performed, 318 year olds
5:01
starting against Spain in the in the quarterfinals, for example,
5:05
was extraordinary. So I've kind of given you 2
5:08
answers there. OK, 22 extremely good answers.
5:11
One I would say, you know, tough is Lucy Bronze's middle name.
5:14
I think we're all familiar with that and I just I'm so glad you
5:19
mentioned her as we kind of like.
5:21
I mean, let's let's get into England that the Champions.
5:23
Obviously. What is it about from you
5:26
watching these matches? There was at one point in my
5:29
notes where I just wrote Lucy Bronze at the back post is
5:33
always open for like this is like and you know, the other
5:38
team watches film too. They have the scouting reports.
5:41
What is she doing to just make herself available at the back
5:44
post? It seems like every single set
5:47
piece every time down the field. You might have heard us in
5:50
commentary saying that Lucy Bronze is free again.
5:52
Why do they keep leaving her free from set piece?
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It's extraordinary, isn't it? Because they've all watched
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every single clip of everything they do and England for ages
6:00
have had Lucy Bronze fabulous header at the back post by the
6:03
way. Credit to her for for getting
6:04
free I guess. But sometimes she's just
6:06
standing there and then leave her to it, which, yeah, it does
6:09
baffle me. I think the one where she scored
6:11
from the head is a bit different because of the movement and what
6:13
have you and the flow of the game.
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But from set pieces, I don't know what the excuse is.
6:17
We were, we were pretty gobsmacked that they that they
6:21
kept leaving her free. And but what a performance from
6:23
her. Honestly, I think she's become
6:26
absolutely iconic. I feel lucky enough to have been
6:29
there when she made her England debut off the bench for Duniya
6:33
Susie against Japan in a friendly before EUR 2013, when
6:37
she went but didn't see a minute to play and she had a late
6:41
winner ruled out wrongly for offside actually that day.
6:43
And that was the start of something.
6:45
And she was really highly rated amongst the people who knew her,
6:48
saw her, coached her. And so it came to fruition.
6:51
But I think so much has been said about her.
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So Megan Rapinoe waxing lyrical about her, saying she absolutely
6:56
hated playing against her, which is a huge compliment, of course,
6:59
in her position. But she she actually lives down
7:02
the road from me. So we we were driving through
7:04
our local village earlier. My little boy was looking out
7:06
for Lucy Bronze. Yeah, she lives down the road.
7:09
And because we're in Chelsea territory here and she's just an
7:13
extraordinary character. Never mind the broken leg,
7:16
everything else, everything, the mental strength that she has.
7:19
And hearing every player in their various interviews through
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throughout the tournament, talking about just listening to
7:25
Lucy in camp and her experience and how she reacts to things and
7:29
telling us what we should do when this happens and how we
7:31
react to that happening. For example, losing against
7:34
France in the opening game. And Lucy lost against France in
7:37
the opening game of the World Cup in 2015 when she was played
7:40
at left wing that day to nullify the threat on the right from
7:44
France. And it was a horrible
7:45
performance, a horrible defeat. And they went on to be so, so
7:49
close to reaching the final. So her having been there, seen
7:52
it done, it was was quite a thread throughout this
7:55
tournament and I need to get some photographs.
7:59
I think, you know, the celebration of the penalty
8:02
against Sweden, which really got into Sweden's heads and they
8:04
ended up losing that. I think that needs to get hold
8:07
of the photograph of that celebration because I think that
8:10
in particular was really iconic. Oh yeah.
8:13
Blasted, blasted. That penalty I've been on to get
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rewatched a couple days ago, I wanted to talk about another
8:19
player. Well, the player that provided
8:21
that ball into Lucy Bronze for the header.
8:23
Chloe Kelly, my personal player of the tournament.
8:26
We'll talk about that one later or maybe we'll talk about it
8:28
now. Chloe Kelly a a tremendous
8:31
tournament, Serena Viegman. I think it's going to be hard to
8:34
decouple those two because to have a player in that kind of
8:38
form that effective, that productive and to be able to
8:42
keep her in that role, not disrupt things, but also make
8:45
changes other parts of the pitch, you know, to address
8:48
other issues with backline etcetera.
8:51
Can you talk a little bit about Chloe Kelly's impact on the team
8:55
and like, you know, kind of how it permeated out?
8:58
I think we need to have a blood test for Chloe Kelly.
9:01
I'm not convinced she's as English as she makes out she is,
9:04
because all the things that she's doing on a football field
9:07
with three lines on her shirt are not traditionally English at
9:12
all. And what I mean by that is we as
9:16
an English population, having watched all sorts of England
9:20
teams over the years, are not used to that level of A
9:24
confidence, B ability to strike a football from 12 yards
9:28
successfully and C just the the confidence of knowing she's
9:33
going to win. Because, and I don't want to
9:36
keep harking back, back to the past, but I think it is
9:38
relevant, the fact that England have now won back-to-back major
9:42
trophies and we in my lifetime had never seen a senior England
9:46
team win anything 'cause obviously 1966 was the men's
9:49
World Cup. But that's all we talk about.
9:51
I've got a photo of it in our downstairs toilet.
9:53
I mean, this is all we have as a reference point.
9:55
But of course most of us weren't born then.
9:57
And so her mentality is extraordinary, really, truly
10:03
extraordinary. And I think it's infectious and
10:05
she kept saying in interviews, I'm so proud to be English and I
10:09
don't want to get political. But in the last few years we
10:13
don't tend to have heard being proud to be English because it
10:17
tends to have taken on far right political implications, which is
10:21
crazy, right? And the Welsh so proud to be
10:24
Welsh. The national anthem, everybody
10:27
in Wales is whether it's rugby, whether it's football, whatever
10:29
Scottish bagpipes, thistles, everyone's blue and white and
10:34
proud to be Scottish and Irish, et cetera.
10:37
And we've been a bit embarrassed to be English 'cause we feel
10:40
that when we go abroad that we should probably say we're
10:42
British rather than English 'cause it sounds a bit
10:44
exclusive. So just giving you an insight
10:47
there into kind of the psyche of English people of the last few
10:50
years. But embarrassed to be English.
10:52
Maybe our football fans at major tournaments in the men's game
10:54
have embarrassed the English and and people who have English
10:57
flags up outside their house, you don't know whether they're
11:00
just proud of their football team or whether it's a political
11:03
statement. So with all this wrapped up in
11:06
that, it's very different having seen and heard Chloe Kelly play
11:10
the way she did in the football field and talk the way she did
11:13
afterwards with such supreme confidence.
11:16
And I personally think it's really refreshing to hear that
11:19
because I think it must permeate towards the rest of the team.
11:22
Yes, they're proud to be English and yes, they always expected to
11:26
come through at the end, whether that's entirely true or not,
11:29
that sort of level of self-confidence.
11:31
And afterwards in the the parade outside Buckingham Palace and,
11:35
and on the stage, when she said pressure, what pressure?
11:39
And she was laughing, of course there was huge amounts of
11:41
pressure on taking the winning penalty in the Euro final.
11:43
She was being tongue in cheek. Some people have taken that as
11:46
an arrogant thing. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
11:49
she's being English tongue in cheek there.
11:51
And she's also enjoying her life and she's not being
11:55
disrespectful to anybody else. She just has a confidence in
11:58
herself, in her right foot and her left foot to deliverable to
12:01
come off the bench. She's fine doing that, whereas
12:03
others might have sulked. So I think there's so much
12:06
wrapped up in Chloe Kelly's performance on and off the field
12:10
that it is so fascinating, so, so fascinating to watch.
12:14
And I think it's fantastic for her, fantastic for the other
12:17
England players and fantastic for women's football as a whole
12:20
because again, because of the history of the women's game in
12:25
this country, of the game in this country, there has been
12:28
almost an apology of English women playing football because
12:32
of the band that was ended in 1971.
12:34
They've had to fight and it's all been drudgery and it's all
12:36
been hard and fighting for airwaves and fighting for a
12:40
little slot at the end of a sports bulletin.
12:42
And I know because I'm someone who had to fight to get those
12:44
lines of copy into sports bulletins.
12:46
So this is how it has been and when an English female player
12:51
would be interviewed on television, it would always be
12:54
the last couple of minutes of a slot and they'd be grateful to
12:56
be there. So for these women to have
12:58
completely smashed that apart and for the brands and for the
13:02
TV companies and the producers to be fighting to get hold of a
13:05
lioness, to get them on the sofa, to get them on prime time
13:08
television, this is so new. And so to have a player like
13:12
that be confident, be full of personality and fully be
13:16
deserving to be in that limelight is really something
13:20
new. And so, sorry, that's that's
13:22
slightly diverting from your question.
13:23
But I think it's been really iconic, really refreshing and
13:27
absolutely signposting the way forward for the game in this
13:29
country, which is people wanna watch these girls, they wanna
13:33
watch them and they wanna watch women's football just for it
13:35
being football. But in terms of her role coming
13:37
off the bench, extraordinary. And I think there were plenty of
13:41
people, maybe I'm one of them who maybe thought she might
13:44
start the final because she's got energy to burn.
13:47
She's got minutes and her legs and and Lauren James had an
13:50
injury. She just recovered from it
13:52
coming into the tournament. She got a really bad ankle knock
13:55
and I think it was the was it the semi finals and had to come
13:58
off so and so it played out. She was carrying an injury and
14:02
she's a fabulous player. But they got there in the end
14:05
and for one player to have have the winning moment, the winning
14:10
touch in two tournaments in a row is mind blowing.
14:14
I try not to be too, you know, American myopic.
14:18
But the way you describe that, I mean, there is there is a pretty
14:21
good comparison to be made by a player you referenced earlier in
14:26
Megan Rapinoe where, you know, as as you're probably aware, we
14:30
have some of these similar political conditions in the
14:34
United States where, you know, the person who puts the American
14:37
flag out there to your example. You're not sure what kind of
14:39
statement that's exactly making. And Megan Rapinoe and and other
14:43
obviously plenty of other players of the women's national
14:46
team here have like reclaimed that and said like this is, this
14:50
is what it means to be an American for us.
14:52
And like what like the outlook we have and how the how we see
14:57
ourselves. Basically, it's awesome that
15:00
Chloe Kelly is kind of, you know, has that for you guys.
15:03
And the, the thing about Rapinoe that that Chloe Kelly now has,
15:06
has the boat of fides, has the accomplishments, has the
15:10
trophies, the moments to back it up.
15:12
And so, you know, it's not like you need that to say things
15:15
like, Hey, we all belong here and all that stuff.
15:17
But it does definitely doesn't hurt and it leads me to this
15:20
question. And obviously Dino and I have 0
15:23
pull with the FA, but we are demanding that the FA
15:25
immediately Commission and build the statue for Chloe Kelly.
15:29
So Jackie Olli, we have two questions for you here.
15:33
One, what do you think the statue pose should be and where
15:38
should it be placed? OK, so you've got two options.
15:42
I think 1 is of the shirt around the head, but I don't think the
15:47
FA, we are still English and quite reserved are going to want
15:50
to put up a a statue of a woman in a sports bra.
15:52
Berringham Midwick. I don't think that's going to
15:54
happen. So it probably won't be the
15:55
shirt. The Brandy Chastain moment.
15:58
I think it should be the knee up.
16:00
Yes. The knee up pose, because that
16:03
is distinctive, That's distinctively Chloe.
16:07
Yes, it's her routine that gets her into the zone, but it's also
16:12
this symbol to the goalkeeper. Don't mess with me, I'm coming
16:14
for you. They're in trouble.
16:15
I think that's a psychological thing as well and it's it is
16:18
iconic. So for me it's the knee up or it
16:22
could be the corner flag, but I don't think that that's.
16:26
Yeah, not a signature as the the knee up, I think, I think, I
16:29
think you nailed it, yeah. I think they are already
16:31
commissioning a statue that was already in in process anyway
16:35
that was already happening, but now they've got a choice that
16:38
2022 that I mean this the the constant between the two is
16:43
obviously Chloe Kelly because the winning moment, which is
16:45
insane both times. Genuinely imagine her agent this
16:48
week. I noticed her agent's e-mail
16:51
address on her Instagram, and I thought, imagine, imagine that
16:54
e-mail box this week. Let's go.
16:57
The price is going up, yeah. Good for her though, you know,
17:01
good for her. And I just, I just hope a lot of
17:05
the other line s s and non line s s and previous line s s are
17:09
also getting a little slice of cake because it's changed very,
17:12
very quickly, very, very quickly.
17:14
And there's still WSL players having to buy their own boots.
17:19
So the gap, my only concern, not to put a dampener on it at all.
17:22
It's just a realistic thing. It's I think we have to be a
17:24
little bit careful about giving everything of a small pot to a
17:29
small group of players who've already got a certain amount of
17:31
the adulation and the boot deals and the everything out else and
17:35
then other players still living off maybe 30 grand a year and
17:39
buying their own boots and what have you.
17:40
I think we need to be a little bit careful about that.
17:43
I don't know the answer to that and how it works because market
17:45
forces are what they are that you want Lucy Bronze selling
17:50
your whatever product at all? I don't know, but good luck to
17:53
her. She deserves that, by the way,
17:55
So individual, distinctive details, yes, of course you want
17:59
Chloe Kelly on whatever it is, and Leah Williamson will have
18:03
deals coming out of her ears anyway, so that's not a concern
18:05
as to when she's England captain.
18:06
Deserves some Lucy Bronze too. But all I'm saying is I hope we
18:09
haven't forgotten the other players who also need to fund
18:12
living and training and all the rest of it.
18:15
Dino, just so I could jump in because, you know, I never miss
18:17
an opportunity for this. Jackie, a little background on
18:19
me, I'm a labor union guy. So for all the football related
18:22
income, that's where a union helps.
18:23
Just just, you know, I always got to throw that up.
18:26
Let's go cosign Jackie. I went to ask them about and
18:30
we're going heavy, heavy England here, so apologies, I know
18:33
another. Everything else, by the way, it
18:34
just came up with the first. I had I had one more in the
18:38
question just because I thought, you know, it was it was a pretty
18:40
important moment from a different perspective.
18:43
Jess Carter obviously has some, you know, goes through these,
18:47
you know, personal struggles with problematic fans and
18:51
situations. You know, there's been a lot
18:53
discussed about that doesn't play in the semi final, comes
18:56
back for the final takes on that Spain attack and has a great
19:02
game. I thought was great was was was
19:04
in all the right spots and none of the issues that, you know,
19:07
sprung up in that Sweden match and just was like a dependable
19:12
defensive piece. And I think some of the
19:14
defensive issues that we saw earlier with England just didn't
19:17
seem to be there. They they were in the lanes,
19:19
they were in the spots, good connectivity defensively.
19:23
And I thought Jess Carter having to overcome all of that and put
19:27
together that performance in the final just said a ton.
19:30
I'm so glad you mentioned Jess. I'm so glad because we could
19:33
talk about Lucy Bronze and Chloe Kelly all day and but so is
19:36
everybody else, right? They kind of speak for
19:38
themselves. I'm so glad you mentioned Jess
19:41
Carter. What what character?
19:45
What a character. What a lovely human for
19:47
starters, by the way, which is kind of irrelevant in football,
19:50
but she just is a fantastic person.
19:52
I could not have been happier for her because when I saw her
19:55
name on the team sheet for the final, I was a bit worried for
19:59
her, I'll be honest, because of all the abuse that she'd had and
20:02
she'd had very nervy moments. We were allowed to critique the
20:05
football. OK, These are players at top
20:06
level. And I felt really sorry for her
20:09
against France because that's not her position.
20:12
She doesn't play left back. England didn't have the left
20:14
back. Alex Greenwood.
20:15
OK, so the France game was horrible for everybody concerned
20:19
and. I actually was looking more at
20:22
Serena Wiegmann on the France game, I have to be honest,
20:24
rather than the players, because the players were so far away
20:27
from each other. Connecting any pass was so
20:29
difficult that needed changing sooner.
20:31
So I was looking at Serena and going, why are you not changing
20:34
it? Because at least a day Almeida
20:37
and Delphine Cascarino would just tap, tap, tap around.
20:40
Poor Jess Carter, a man. I felt for the girl.
20:43
Change it sooner. So she did change it for the
20:46
second game and of course fantastic against the
20:48
Netherlands and it, you know, it was a change.
20:51
It was a totally change of vibe and the platform for the rest of
20:53
the tournament. And then there was the Sweden
20:55
game and again, really nervous early on, giving the ball away
20:59
and not just Jess, by the way, but of course being punished
21:02
early on. And then the second game,
21:04
Stanway, that lost it and everyone's looking at Jess and
21:07
then you hear about the racial abuse and you just think, oh,
21:11
for God's sake, you, you know, not to be surprised.
21:14
And by the way, it's not just Jess.
21:15
There's been other players who've been abused, whether
21:17
racially or not. They've since said there's a lot
21:20
of it online. So it's not just Jess, but she
21:21
was the one that bravely spoke out about it.
21:23
And so she was in the spotlight. And then the Italy change that
21:27
Serena Vegan said was tactical. And I, I do believe her because
21:30
there's a lot of height in that side, a lot of Girelli fantastic
21:34
with her head and the two Subs off the bench, Cambiagi and
21:39
Piomonte, both 5 foot 10. So I was not surprised by that
21:42
change of bringing in Esme Morgan at all, and also quite
21:47
happy to see Jess just get a bit of downtime after the week she'd
21:49
had. So for her to be named in the
21:52
starting line up in the final and for Jess to subsequently
21:55
perform the way she did, she was impeccable alongside Leah
22:01
Williamson, who was also outstanding as she was in the
22:04
Champions League final. Absolutely huge credit to that
22:08
player. Honestly, I've just got so much,
22:12
so much credit to hand over to as lots of people have and I
22:15
think she deserves to stand out as much as anybody.
22:17
She deserves to be talked about as much as anybody because when
22:20
she said afterwards, and she's so brutally and beautifully
22:23
honest, Jess, she gives lovely interviews and she was kind
22:26
enough to speak to me before the the tournament set up by Fox and
22:29
NWSL and Gotham. And she was very honest there as
22:33
well, by the way. And for her to speak post match
22:35
saying I was terrified when I woke up that morning.
22:38
But my teammates rallied around me, believed in me and my
22:42
manager believed in me. And I was thinking I'm going to
22:45
have to give the performance of my life.
22:46
And she did. Wow.
22:48
Because if she hadn't, can you even imagine the turn that her
22:51
life would have taken if she was abused that much earlier on in
22:54
the tournament, if they'd have lost the final?
22:55
Because, I mean, it's easy to make a mistake against Spain.
22:58
Can we please be honest about this?
22:59
Or it's maybe not even a mistake if they force you into errors
23:03
because of the way they count on you.
23:05
So for her to perform like that, wow.
23:08
Honestly, credit kudos. I'm kind of chuckling because
23:12
you you, you mentioned it's easy to get criticized versus Spain.
23:16
Immediately made me think about the Boma Teagle versus Anne
23:20
Catran Berger, where she's like 6 inches off like, and you know,
23:24
she's playing smart, just trying to be a little bit of a step
23:26
ahead. Aitana kind of catches her
23:28
sleeping. And we saw a criticism of burger
23:31
on that play. And I'm like, have you been
23:33
watching this tournament? Have you been seeing what, what
23:36
this this keeper has been able to do?
23:38
And to your point, Spain is just going to do that to you if you
23:41
leave the the the most micro of crevices.
23:44
Well, this is it. We talk about fine margins
23:46
always, don't we? I mean, you've got sports
23:48
scientists and people talking about the right kind of pillow
23:51
and exactly the right thickness to get the right amount of
23:54
sleep. We're talking about fine, fine
23:56
margins. And that one, obviously, I was
23:59
calling that game and that goal. And we didn't expect her to
24:02
shoot from there. And, and of course, afterwards,
24:06
Ann Katchenberger did hold her hands up.
24:07
She said that was my mistake. I was directing traffic in front
24:10
of me. I did leave too much space, and
24:12
she did. But you can understand why and
24:16
she just said it, it was a moment.
24:18
But that is the difference, isn't it between top sides.
24:20
And I love Germany this tournament, by the way, crazy,
24:23
crazy moments for the red cards, particularly the Cutty entry
24:26
one. What was she thinking?
24:28
But I loved the way they rallied and that kind of felt pretty
24:31
sorry for them in the end. But it is those moments and
24:34
that's why Bomatis won a couple of balloon doors is because
24:37
those moments are game changing and and also credit to the
24:41
staff. One of the other things, I don't
24:43
think staff get anywhere near enough credit.
24:45
We talk about managers good and bad.
24:47
We talk about players good and bad performances.
24:50
But what about the hours and hours and hours that analysts
24:53
put in? Analysts are not paid anywhere
24:55
near as much as head coaches who do all the press conferences and
24:59
what have you. And sometimes maybe not at this
25:02
level, but certainly at some club level, men's club level,
25:05
some of them working for free or for not very much.
25:07
And I think analysts sometimes deserve huge amounts of credit.
25:10
They're working all hours, all days, night and day.
25:13
Get me this clip, get me that clip, get me that.
25:15
Find me a compilation of this player doing this particular
25:17
action. And so the analysts I'd like to
25:20
give a a big shout out to for whom life can be very difficult
25:25
and they're working late, late, early, early and finding that
25:28
little nugget that can be the difference.
25:30
And she was told this is what and capturing Burger does.
25:34
So those analysts, the goalkeeper coaching and the
25:36
analyst who said, actually, we've spotted her do this.
25:39
I tell if ever you're in that situation or anyone else, if
25:42
you're in that situation to cross, hit it hard and low near
25:45
post, just have a go. So yes, credits for my tea, but
25:48
also to the analysts. And just, I mean, obviously you
25:53
mentioned the two Bolland doors, the best player in the world, I
25:55
think by a lot of people's accounts, rightfully so.
25:58
Just the ability, the dummy to free up the space.
26:02
And I mean, the entire thing is just majestic.
26:04
And her ability when she's going in line there and she just pops
26:09
it like so quickly to get so much pace on it.
26:12
I mean, we talked about on this show too.
26:14
I think most football pundits do.
26:17
Your margin for error against Spain is virtually nothing like
26:21
you. You just have to get so much
26:23
right and you have to hope, you know, for them to get a couple
26:27
things wrong. You mentioned this team earlier
26:29
who I thought put up the host country, Switzerland, who put up
26:33
a good performance against Spain.
26:35
You mentioned their young players.
26:37
You know, sometimes Dino and I wear your, your, you know,
26:39
average American sports fans. We get real excited about things
26:43
pretty quickly. I have to think Switzerland, I
26:47
love the look of them going into 2027 in the World Cup.
26:50
I mean, that is unbelievable talent at a young age on their
26:55
side. What?
26:55
What else did you see from them? Oh, I love Switzerland.
26:58
I love them so much because when I was doing all my prep on them,
27:01
I was thinking, oh God, we don't really want to have a host
27:06
nation that's going to bomb out. So I was there with a good pal
27:09
of mine in Geneva. What a beautiful place.
27:11
But go to Geneva, but safe up the lake, the walks, hire a bike
27:17
at the main train station. Oh, God, it's beautiful,
27:20
beautiful. Anyway, so I was there and I was
27:21
talking to people in cafes and I was like, you know, what about
27:23
this tournament? They're like to know about it.
27:26
No one's really talking about it.
27:28
There's no signs, There's no nothing.
27:29
And I thought, oh, my God, this is going to be a nightmare.
27:31
This is going to be a nightmare because they cut the budget and
27:33
there was arguments over that. And and then when I was reading
27:37
about the actual team, so I was worried about the tickets and
27:39
everything else. And then I was worried about the
27:41
actual team and and all I could see was Pierre Zontaga is so
27:46
wedded to this back five and it's so negative when you've got
27:48
these attacking players. And I was thinking, oh God.
27:51
But then I also remember a quote from Pierre Zontaga saying judge
27:54
me on July the whatever it was, fifth was it whatever it was,
28:00
judge me on that day and then second ones.
28:03
And then you can see how we do. And fair enough, she was right.
28:07
We judged her on the actual play and they weren't defensive.
28:10
They were phenomenal. Imam Benny, who missed out on
28:14
the World Cup 2 years ago, the age of 16 goes from an ACL
28:17
immediately before she was phenomenal in an unfamiliar
28:20
position of of right wing back. That's not really her.
28:22
Oh my God, I loved watching her. But do you know the player that
28:25
really stood out for me? I wonder if we're In Sync here.
28:28
Not one of the teenagers who stood out for you in that team.
28:31
I mean, I thought for me. Sorry Dino, I jumped you there.
28:35
No, no, you nailed it. I was going to give Leavalti the
28:38
shout out for also doing some promotional marketing work for
28:41
the tournament. Oh, I.
28:42
Thought she was fabulous, all of it as well, wasn't she?
28:45
Absolutely. Yeah, she.
28:46
Definitely called things down. But Roy Tiller, were you?
28:49
Were you heading towards Roy Tiller?
28:50
I was. Saying Roy Tiller, I loved
28:53
Geraldine Reuter, particularly in the earlier games against
28:58
Norway in it. I mean, they were really unlucky
29:01
and now I but definitely reuteler when she was in a more
29:04
advanced role. I particularly enjoyed her and I
29:07
I kind of want to watch her every week.
29:09
So I'm thinking is she really happy at I'm Trac Frankfurt?
29:12
How did she feel about going to either the WSL or the NWSLI?
29:15
Don't really mind which and then a friend of mine goes apparently
29:18
she's really happy there. Drat.
29:20
I just don't watch them as awful as I as I would elsewhere.
29:23
I just love watching her dynamism and she can shoot from
29:27
distance that she could the final ball.
29:29
How many times in football do we go final ball is what's letting
29:32
this team down. And she's happiness at that.
29:35
And she's strong and she's everywhere and she's fit and
29:38
she's. Yeah.
29:39
And then later on in the tournament towards the knockout
29:42
stages, then she was having to play a couple of games in a
29:44
deeper role because she's so brilliant.
29:46
She did a job for the team, but she didn't get to stand out as
29:48
much. So I thought she really held
29:51
them together. But.
29:52
And I loved seeing a Pilgrim off the bench.
29:56
They just had all these junk and her story as well.
29:58
And she used to work for a medical organization's cycle to
30:02
training. And all these players have come
30:04
through so many different situations that involve not
30:08
being professional from birth, like some of the lads are.
30:11
And they've found their way, They've got the degrees, they've
30:14
had to persuade their mum to let them go and play football
30:16
because the mum doesn't think it's a there's any future in it
30:18
and all the rest of it. And she was one of them.
30:21
So many great stories. But I loved, loved Switzerland,
30:24
loved reason at left wing back as well and velted for all her
30:28
off field, on field. And I loved the way she her
30:31
positioning was phenomenal and she'd had a difficult time at
30:34
Arsenal with injury and lost her place.
30:37
So for her to be so key in that midfield and the way the way she
30:40
played was, I loved watching Switzerland really did.
30:44
Yeah, couldn't agree more. I mean, you know, I live here in
30:46
Seattle, so seeing Serna Gorsuvich out there and getting
30:50
like at her at the point she is in her career kind of
30:54
shepherding these young players and we've gone all this time and
30:57
we haven't. I don't think we've yet said the
30:59
name Sydney shirt and Libe who when you know, Dino and I
31:02
covering we're primarily a Women's Champions League show.
31:06
But Dino and I again, we something you could people can
31:10
accuse us of the hyperbole. Sometimes we think shirt and
31:13
Libe has a ball on door ceiling. Do we need to relax a little
31:17
bit? And we know it's, it's tough to
31:18
put expectations on a young player, but she's amazing,
31:21
Jackie. Yeah, I thought she was
31:23
fantastic. I think, I mean, she's so young
31:25
and she's at such a big club and I I was kind of fascinated by
31:29
her story that she was actually tapped up by by by this staff at
31:34
Barcelona. They they slid into a DMS and
31:37
and asked her if she was interested in joining them.
31:39
I was thinking a little bit naughty.
31:41
But anyway, yeah, so loved watching her play it.
31:46
My only thing that I was getting frustrated about, I was talking
31:49
to Laurie about this off air and she wasn't anywhere near as
31:51
bothered about it as I was. And she's 5 foot 10 and taking
31:54
corners. I'm thinking, yeah, her
31:56
deliveries are great, but there are other players who don't have
31:58
that heightened presence in the box and the ability to finish
32:01
who perhaps they could take the corners.
32:02
But this is just a, a silly minor thing.
32:04
But the fact is she's capable of of doing everything.
32:07
And I think with her development will come the decision making at
32:13
the vital moment. And there were a few times in
32:15
the first couple of games when she was going it alone and her
32:17
teammates were going nuts because they were better placed.
32:20
But that will come with time and experience.
32:23
And as you rightly say, very high ceiling.
32:26
No idea whether it's Balandor ceiling.
32:27
Hopefully so, because she's so young and getting such good and
32:31
coaching that hopefully that will be the case.
32:34
But absolutely love what she'd offered.
32:36
And my only disappointment about Switzerland is the fact that
32:40
they're pretty much all playing abroad.
32:43
And so when the new season kicks in, the excitement that Swiss
32:48
football fans will have for their team is going to kind of
32:52
have to be reserved for either watching them in the league on
32:54
TV or for international matches. And hopefully there'll be a
32:59
massive hike of home matches and internationals, which they're
33:02
not maybe used to. And that would be great.
33:04
But whereas in NWSL you've got a a bunch of players returning and
33:08
also from WAFCON, et cetera, and Copa here in the WSL in this
33:13
country, it would be great to see some of these players.
33:15
And Elena Lenari's just signed for London City Lionesses and
33:18
they're going to be really interesting next season.
33:21
Yeah, what a fantastic signing, by the way, because she was one
33:24
of the players I absolutely loved watching for Italy, who
33:27
we've not mentioned yet, and maybe we will, but I I thought
33:30
she was brilliant. So to see those Swiss players be
33:34
so exciting but really not particularly be heading back to
33:37
the Swiss league is a shame. But maybe conversely that will
33:42
have an impact on the Swiss clubs going.
33:45
OK, right, We're going to invest more, speculate to accumulate.
33:49
We can see the potential of the women's game and it is, we know
33:52
it comes back to investment because you invest in young
33:54
players in scouting and coaching and medical treatment.
33:58
If you invest in young talent, then you're giving these female
34:02
players a platform to be the best they can be.
34:04
And the talent pool across the world is vast, of course, and
34:08
we're only really seeing the cream of the crop in areas where
34:12
those players have been able to thrive.
34:14
And and I cast my mind back to the great, great Kelly Smith,
34:18
who was unable to stay in England and at home in Watford
34:22
where she wanted to be with her dad, her mum, her brother, who
34:26
she adored. She couldn't do that.
34:27
She had to go to America and was at Seton Hall and was horribly
34:30
homesick and became alcoholic and all these things because she
34:33
couldn't kick a ball every day in this country.
34:36
So things have changed on that front.
34:38
But you want players in every country to be able to stay in
34:41
their country if they want to, to be able to live in their home
34:44
village if they want to and still be professional
34:46
footballers as the guys can. Although of course they travel
34:50
too and but you just want there to be the coaching of a high
34:54
standard available to these girls from a young age so they
34:58
don't have to travel across the country like Lauren Hemp did at
35:00
the age of 16, had to leave Norwich for Bristol City.
35:03
You want that to change so that there are these professional
35:06
hubs nearby, all these players across the world.
35:08
We'll get there eventually, but it is a process.
35:11
Yeah, absolutely. Very well, said Jackie.
35:15
And I know you're speaking from a little bit of experience.
35:17
I know you, you played a little ball in your past as well.
35:21
What kind of player was Jackie Oatley or is was there a player
35:24
in the tournament that represented, you know, you know,
35:28
Jackie Oatley's skills on the pitch that you're just like that
35:31
player and me, if that, like if I, if I was in that tournament,
35:33
that's what I would be doing. That's exactly how I'd want to
35:35
be playing. Yeah, they're all on the bench
35:37
and never saw a moment of action, so they would want to
35:41
represent me. I was wholehearted.
35:44
Should we put it that way? I was very much wholehearted.
35:45
I understood the game, but because I didn't have it,
35:48
genuinely didn't have a club to play for or anyone to play with
35:51
because literally nobody played. Even my brother hated football,
35:55
so I literally had to buy a football and practice keeping up
35:57
his myself, kick a ball against the garage door.
36:01
That was literally it. And so it was only when I went
36:05
to university aged 17 that I could join a team and have
36:07
coaching. So and I was no loss to anybody
36:09
genuinely. But I, I did play in the Greater
36:11
London League and that's when I got injured badly.
36:14
And then, you know, I can't even run anymore sadly, because it
36:16
was such a horrible permanent injury to my kneecap.
36:21
No, I can't compare myself to literally any of these players
36:24
because genuinely somebody who didn't play and was injured all
36:28
the time, I would say, but no, I was right sided midfielder and I
36:31
just, I just love the game. But I would love to have had
36:34
opportunities. Like my kids now are 11 and 14
36:36
and they're literally out playing football in the park now
36:39
and they get fabulous coaching from a local coaching school,
36:43
both of them for the same coaches different days and at
36:45
school, just brilliant coaching and as much opportunities as
36:48
they want. And it's just fantastic level of
36:51
coaching and they focus on the people put first and how you
36:55
behave and being a good teammate, as well as excellent
36:58
actual skills coaching and so that they enjoy it.
37:01
And that's, that's just amazing Now, So, but no, to answer your
37:04
question, nobody. Fair enough.
37:08
She won't take the steps to compare herself to Geraldine
37:11
Reuteler. Oh, I'd love to go.
37:13
I'd love to go to bronze type. Yeah, maybe somebody, but
37:17
definitely somebody who's wholehearted and maybe somebody
37:20
who understood the game but maybe tried to make the best of
37:24
the little ability they had. Maybe that?
37:28
You're preaching to the choir on that one, Jackie.
37:30
So we, we've mentioned in passing Italy a couple times,
37:35
Obviously, you know, they make the semi final, they beat Norway
37:38
on their way there. We talked about Girelli, what
37:42
and you know about being wholehearted.
37:44
Also, what were the hallmarks of this Italian side that you
37:48
noticed throughout the tournament?
37:50
I loved Italy, loved them, absolutely loved Italy.
37:56
I loved the fact that they've only been professional for three
37:59
years. Well, I don't love that, but I
38:01
love the fact they achieved what they did Despite that.
38:03
Do you know what I'm saying? The fact their league has has
38:05
been very belated and we're seeing this across the board, by
38:09
the way, around the world of leagues of federations
38:13
traditionally, let's be brutally honest about this, pretty
38:16
sexist. It it's just being honest,
38:18
right? We, we see it still in South
38:21
America, we see it still in so many countries, some pretty
38:26
close to home as well that are very, very belatedly the cogs
38:30
are whirring. Oh, actually, if girls and women
38:34
play football in a coach at an early age, or maybe they can
38:36
play, maybe this can be a commercial operation.
38:38
But Oh my God, it's been exhausting trying to get people
38:42
to see the light on that front. So belatedly, so the Italian
38:47
league went professional three years ago and teams like
38:50
Juventus very belatedly coming to the party, I think it's 2017,
38:53
Roma 2018, etcetera. And so now we're seeing the
38:57
fruits of that, Juventus now having won the league for 1/6
39:01
time after Roma had won it for a couple of years in a row.
39:04
And every single one of those Italian players had played in
39:08
the Italian league last season, which I thought was interesting.
39:12
But also, where do they go from here?
39:14
So just seeing Lunari now having signed for London City,
39:18
Lionesses Caruso had been on loan at Bayern Munich for half
39:21
season, has moved there, Sofia Cantori going to Washington
39:24
Spirit, really interesting. I think it'd be good for their
39:25
development to have football experiences in different leagues
39:29
and different cultures. But and ask your question about
39:31
what I liked about them. I always love a team that is
39:34
greater than the sum of their parts, that is United, that is
39:38
playing the philosophy of their coach and I love the work that
39:42
Andrea Sanchin did. He didn't have a huge track
39:45
record. You look at his CV and go, OK,
39:48
lower league striker in his day. He's 46 now and he done a bit of
39:53
coaching, was interim at men's second division club a couple of
39:58
times, what have you, and let's see what he's got.
40:02
But listening to the players, researching the players, the
40:04
quotes, watching them, you could see that they play to his
40:08
tactical philosophy, and they are very tactical.
40:10
So they would change their formation and the way they play
40:13
and their personnel depending on the opposition.
40:16
And I loved what they offered on that front.
40:19
I was a huge admirer of Christiana Jarelli.
40:21
She's my kind of player. Not in terms of how I play, by
40:24
the way, because we need to leave that theory because nobody
40:28
there played like me. But I loved what she had, the
40:30
passion, the emotion, the leadership, the armband, her
40:35
goals. Oh my God, I just thought she
40:38
was phenomenal. And listening to why the coach
40:41
talked about her and her response in an interview when
40:43
she was told about the coach's quotes about how she has not had
40:47
what she deserves on the field or off the field in terms of the
40:51
limelight, the recognition and how close they were against
40:56
England was genuinely heartbreaking.
40:59
I mean, yes, of course, fantastic what England managed
41:02
to do and turning it around and of course Azumang is a wonderful
41:06
story. But conversely, I was absolutely
41:09
devastated for Italy. Really, really devastated
41:12
because they were so close and because of what it meant in
41:15
their home country. And they had 10 million viewers
41:18
on Ride One, which is on in every front room of the country.
41:22
And this is new to them. And they are annoyingly still
41:26
playing for recognition in a way that US women just don't even
41:30
have to think about. You don't even have to think
41:32
about that because that is not what happens in America.
41:34
That's not how people think about women playing football.
41:37
They think of women for certain things in Italy and in Brazil
41:41
and in parts of South America and other parts of the world
41:43
because it's a patriarchal society and football is for men
41:46
and women are there to look pretty and do what have you
41:50
traditionally in the past. And so they're having to drag
41:55
their nation out of those stereotypes and historical
42:01
tropes, if you like. So that's why it meant so much.
42:04
And the tears of Jarelli I couldn't quite cope with because
42:08
it was just so sad and all those players had given so much and
42:11
it's just a sad way to lose. But but bigger picture,
42:15
fantastic that they won you admirers, fantastic that the
42:18
little girls will see that and want to play.
42:19
Fantastic. The little boys will see that
42:21
and think it's normal for skills to play and all those aspects
42:26
that now involve that country really kicking on, hopefully
42:30
after this really kicking on because they've proven they have
42:33
fantastic talent. And I love the fullbacks.
42:36
I love the Guli Elmo and I loved Oliviero and I love the fact
42:39
they took the lead against Spain and the celebrations and and I
42:43
love Giuliano's pieces and there's just so much about them
42:46
to like. And Severini had horrible time,
42:49
bless her in the in the semi final, but she'll come back,
42:52
She's only 22, she'll be a fantastic player.
42:54
So, so much to look forward to from them.
42:57
Dina, I, I just want to make a, a quick point on the television
43:01
stuff because I'm, I'm so glad you mentioned this, Jackie,
43:04
There there was a point, I think it was earlier this year.
43:08
I think it was either, you know, late 2024, early 2025, where a
43:13
Syria femoneal match was broadcast in America on the CBS
43:17
Sports Network And it was in high definition.
43:19
And there were, there were like multiple camera angles and we
43:23
came on the show and we're like, yes, all these television
43:26
executives stop being dopes. Put these matches on television
43:30
because what do you know, if you put them on TV, people will
43:34
watch, you will win over, you know, new fans, the people who
43:37
are already huge fans want to watch these games.
43:40
It just seems like, like you said, the patriarchal societies
43:43
who kind of like held this sport down.
43:47
Now they just have to realize they, they can't let those,
43:50
those stupid biases get in the way of people want to watch
43:54
this. This is great sport, like the
43:57
investment that Fox put into broadcasting the Euro.
44:00
Like it pays off. Like if football is the biggest
44:04
sport in the world, doesn't it stand to reason that women's
44:07
football is going to go along that same path?
44:11
You're obviously preaching to the converted here, but yes, I
44:13
do agree with you. But I think the key thing is how
44:17
the game has grown and developed to now be very much a spectator
44:21
sport. Because when I first started
44:24
covering it in 2000 and four, 2005 was my first major
44:27
tournament, the women's EUR here in England, which was just
44:29
concentrated in a small area of the Northwest because that's
44:32
where the marketing budget went to try to focus on that area.
44:36
Now those players weren't professional.
44:38
Those players weren't able to go and train all day everyday with
44:42
medical treatment and physios and everything they needed to be
44:46
the best they could be. And I remember speaking to a
44:48
very, very senior executive at the national broadcaster here
44:52
and saying it, you know, over the over those years and saying,
44:55
look, you know, please can you put WSL on TV?
44:57
You put the women's leagues on TV.
44:59
And she said, well, we can't because we're competing with
45:01
other leagues where they're more of a spectator sport.
45:04
And I can't really show empty stadia.
45:07
I can't really say, well, I'm just going to show women's
45:08
football because there's nobody watching.
45:10
And, and I kind of knew what she meant.
45:12
I did understand the competing, you know, rivalry of these
45:16
different sports where they've got full stadia here.
45:18
And you're saying, no, we're not going to show that.
45:20
We're going to show empty stadium.
45:21
And so I think basically the progression of the women's game
45:25
now and this tournament has really shone a light on the
45:30
standard. The standard now thanks to
45:34
gradual development and implementation of all those
45:39
things. We've talked about the
45:40
investment of the leagues being better, of the medical treatment
45:43
being better, the sports science being better.
45:45
So therefore the players being better.
45:47
And some of them, the older players such as as the Lucy
45:50
Bronze and certainly in the Sweden team and they had loads
45:52
and loads of 30 + 3538 year olds.
45:56
Those players weren't always professional and their bodies
45:58
have had to catch up. And so this tournament really
46:01
has shown everybody that not only is women's football at a
46:05
level whereby it is a spectacle that people want to watch, but I
46:10
think the full stadia, 29 of the 31 matches were sold out in a
46:15
country that is not even a football country, OK.
46:18
It borders lots of football countries like Germany being a
46:21
big one. And they sold 10s of thousands
46:22
tickets, you know, the French and everybody else.
46:25
It was fantastic. Italians as well as Spanish or
46:27
put to English, my God travelled in there.
46:30
However, many 10s of thousands, so seeing that on TV, the
46:35
standard plus the full stadia, the storylines, the
46:39
personalities, the players that have those personalities, the
46:42
Chloe Kelly's seeing all that. That is all tick box that says
46:48
we need to put this on TV and studios.
46:51
So seeing Fox and having worked with Fox since Qatar 2022 and
46:55
seeing them do the women's world, being part of the Women's
46:59
World Cup in Australia and New Zealand with Laurie was just
47:03
extraordinary. And, and having breakfast with
47:05
Carli Lloyd and all these US legends who they've brought in
47:10
to bring the best of their experience to tell the stories
47:13
and to analyse is fantastic. It makes it television you want
47:17
to watch. Whereas if you're just sticking
47:19
a national, you know, an international broadcaster on
47:21
television going watch that with no analysis, you're not giving
47:24
it the full treatment. But that's what they've been
47:26
doing and that's what they did here, you know, with Ari Hinks,
47:29
with Leon Sanderson, with, with Carly, with Jan Beattie, who was
47:33
fantastic and hugely popular with the viewers as well and Stu
47:37
Holden and all the other guys. You know, it was and, and Jules
47:40
breach, of course. And the studio set is
47:43
incredible. You know, I didn't even go in
47:45
there once, but the studio set is incredible.
47:47
And then having John and JP and and Laurie and all these guys on
47:51
commentary and, and analysing, analysing, analysing, this is
47:54
all telling a story that you should be watching this stuff.
47:58
And then when you do watch it, you're thinking I want to watch
48:01
the next game because I'm drawn in by the storylines, by the the
48:04
talent, the personalities, the everything about it.
48:08
And I can only see the women's game going one way.
48:10
And I'm not saying that from a position of bias because it's my
48:12
sport. No, I'm a football fan.
48:15
I'm not an England fan or a women's football fan.
48:18
I'm just a football fan and a football journalist and a
48:22
football broadcaster. Saying it like it is just giving
48:25
my opinion on what I see and what I'm seeing is the explosion
48:30
of the women's game, which genuinely I've always predicted
48:34
and should always have happened and should have happened much
48:36
sooner. But OK, we're getting there and
48:38
there's still a long way to go, but at least everyone else is
48:40
seeing it now and we are getting the investment.
48:43
It's only going to get bigger and better.
48:46
And when those countries do in Italy and do a Switzerland and
48:50
invest in those players and invest in those leagues, my
48:54
goodness, Portugal I think will be the next one.
48:56
Are you telling me there's not an incredible talent pool
49:00
waiting to be liberated from the shackles of not having a local
49:04
club or not having decent coaching or not having a, you
49:07
know, decent setup to go into? My goodness, wait till Portugal
49:10
does a spade and look at the struggle Spain I've had.
49:13
This is Spain with all the talent.
49:14
Look, the struggles they've had, maybe they're still having, we
49:17
don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but I doubt it's
49:20
perfect. It's not going to become perfect
49:22
in a couple of years, is it? So all these countries, once
49:26
they, it's not just invest, but once you flick a switch of the
49:30
mindset of OK, what these players can be when we give them
49:34
the tools to succeed, it's going to be extraordinary, honestly.
49:37
And the EUR and the World Cups and the coppers and the WAF cons
49:40
and everything. It's going to be incredible.
49:43
You bring up so many great, great points, Jackie.
49:46
I wanted to talk about the last. My trade about that was like it.
49:50
Oh my goodness. Yes, you're talking with
49:53
amateurs, Jackie. It's all right.
49:56
I'm so sorry. A couple things I wanted to talk
49:58
about the, the goalkeeping you mentioned, like the plan, the
50:01
pitch getting elevated. I thought the goalkeeping was
50:04
the, the 1st place that I was like, wow, this is different.
50:08
Whether it's got that goy, Hannah Hampton, Jennifer Falk,
50:12
Katra Burger. We mentioned the preparation,
50:15
the dexterity, some of the saves that we saw, some of the double
50:17
saves. I thought it was on a, on
50:20
another level. We talked about Katagoy from
50:23
Spain specifically because that's a player that just
50:25
doesn't get a lot of action playing for Barcelona, playing
50:28
for Spain gets called into, you know, gets called into it a few
50:31
times a match and it's usually later in the tournament, you
50:34
know, if, if you're Spain. So that's so, so tough to do,
50:38
but I wanted to pivot a little bit and ask you, you've covered
50:42
obviously a ton of football, you know, their first years to
50:45
22,520 years ago. I think I think I've got that
50:48
right. So you've seen it all and you've
50:50
seen a ton of growth in the game.
50:52
If I ask you a singular performance from a player or a
50:56
team where you're just like, I cannot believe I just watched
50:59
that on the women's side. Where do you go for just like
51:03
the most like couldn't believe I was in the building for that.
51:06
Couldn't believe I was calling that.
51:08
That's something that I think sits in the in that top
51:11
position. Just the stickiest moment that
51:13
I'm going to remember as a commentator.
51:16
Oh my goodness, Oh my goodness. Oh, I sound like Annie Little
51:22
off Nanny then. Big picture question.
51:27
Oh, I'm just trying to rattle through the Rolodex of my mind
51:31
of every two years of these tournaments.
51:34
Well, something stuck in my mind when you were just talking about
51:36
20 years ago was Karen Carney's late winner in the opening match
51:41
against Finland, EUR 2005, when she was 20.
51:44
She was 17. And that was my first national
51:47
commentary. I think it was.
51:49
Was it? I think it was.
51:51
And yeah, and she ran off swearing her head off and got
51:54
into trouble because she's 4. And now Karen's obviously a
51:58
pundit now, but she's still the youngest ever goal scorer at the
52:01
Euros. And that, that was huge because
52:03
we wanted people to watch and we wanted people to listen and we
52:07
wanted women's football to be taken note of back then.
52:11
So that was huge in front of a big crowd at Manchester City
52:14
Stadium. Oh gosh, I'm, I'm really
52:18
struggling to pick one out. I'm really, really struggling to
52:22
pick one out. So I've got the recent device of
52:24
this amazing tournament in my mind.
52:27
True, I can't really pick one out, but this is really bad
52:30
podcasting by trying to think live.
52:32
So what I'm going to say just for the moment, it's not the
52:35
most extraordinary moment in the history of women's football at
52:38
all. But just for the moment, I'm
52:40
just going to say that's saved by Anne Katrin Berger, because
52:43
you alluded to it there when you talked about the goalkeeping now
52:46
for all these years and bearing in mind have been a a football
52:49
fan for a long, long, long, long time before I changed a career
52:52
to do this job and the whole, you know, women football, blah,
52:56
blah, blah in this country, very, very boring and the stick
52:59
you get and you must be a tomboy and you just like this is
53:02
utterly insane. People always talked about the
53:04
goalkeepers and it always used to annoy me because hang on a
53:07
minute, the goalkeepers didn't get any goalkeeper coaching.
53:10
How can you judge them compared to a men's goalkeeper when you
53:14
got Rachel Brown, Finnis who? Or Rachel Brown as she was never
53:18
to an England goalkeeper the time who wasn't?
53:20
Yes, she was getting goalkeeper coaching belatedly, but she
53:22
never grew up having top level goalkeeper coaching.
53:25
And yet you're judging her on the same level as Peter Shilton
53:29
or David Seaman. I mean, let's just get real
53:31
about this for goodness sake. So that used to annoy me so
53:35
much. And even though sometimes people
53:38
had a case of you're just literally watching a game and
53:40
there's a goalkeeper error, and you would just think, you just
53:43
know the whole of women's football is being judged by that
53:46
one goalkeeper error in that moment.
53:48
And it's insane. But it was true.
53:49
That's what was happening. So when Anne Katrinberger did
53:53
that, I think she put a massive tick in the box for women's
53:58
goalkeeping all over the world. Because in that moment, you're
54:03
hopefully not thinking, oh, a woman's just leapt in the air
54:06
and just clawed a ball back off from what looked like behind the
54:10
line because surely she'd have scored an own goal.
54:14
And that's going to be devastating for Germany.
54:15
And they're going out of the tournament.
54:16
And she pulled off the impossible.
54:19
And I just think that was an extraordinary moment.
54:21
I honestly do. And I think that'll be shown
54:23
back for years and years and years and years and years.
54:25
And again, some people are having to be reminded or or
54:30
demonstrated what is possible for female athletes.
54:33
And I think in that moment, she probably just gave a huge shot
54:37
in the arm for female athletes, full stop.
54:39
It was incredible. But yeah, I can't believe a
54:42
bigger moment than that because Germany used to win everything.
54:44
So they didn't really used to stick in my mind because we were
54:45
just used to Germany winning everything.
54:46
I'm so used to the the trophy lifts of them over the years
54:49
but. Yeah, that that makes sense in
54:53
you've been incredibly generous with your time, Jackie.
54:56
We we very much appreciate it. We can't you you talk about the
54:58
growth of the game. You talk about all these
55:00
legendary players. Karen Carney, Chicago Red Stars
55:03
legend. For what it's worth, I was like
55:05
to point out that when they come over to the USA, we have to ask.
55:10
We, we've said it multiple times for all of our pals who who
55:13
watch the show, we're massive Lori Lindsey fans and you know,
55:18
she is like your regular partner, whether it is NWSL
55:21
matches or, or these matches in the Euro Women's World Cup
55:24
matches. You guys have such a great
55:26
chemistry. You know, we know what she
55:28
brought as a player, her experience there.
55:32
And you know, with your experience as a, as a
55:34
journalist, kind of seeing Lori Lindsay go from player to to
55:37
pundit to to color commentator. What is it?
55:41
And this is probably a broad question, too, but, like, what
55:43
is it about Lori Lindsay that makes her so damn good on these
55:47
broadcasts with you? Well, she needs to press stop
55:49
now. If she's watching or listening
55:51
to this, she needs to press stop because it's going to go to her
55:53
head. No, she, I'll tell you what it
55:56
is, I think. I think what it is is a just
55:58
understand that she understands the game.
56:00
She genuinely understands football and was a fantastic
56:04
player. That helps.
56:05
But that's not the be all and end all be.
56:07
I think she wants to analyse and I think over many, many years,
56:12
20 plus years or whatever, I've worked with all manner of
56:15
different Co commentators, male and female, what have you.
56:18
And some would much rather be in the studio because it's it's a
56:22
different vibe you're on for less time.
56:24
Maybe it's just a different thing.
56:26
Whereas to be in doing Co commentary, you have to really
56:30
want to do it because it involves a lot more prep, a lot
56:33
more in depth prep, a lot more watching back.
56:35
If you had to do it properly, you need to analyse patterns of
56:39
play, you need to know a bit about the coach and you need to
56:41
listen to the quotes and what does he or she want from the
56:44
team. You need to know what you're
56:45
looking out for. So I think she's really good at
56:48
doing that, that she wants to do it and spends the time revising
56:51
for an exam if you like, because every time we go on air as
56:54
commentators, it's effectively an exam and all the prep that
56:57
you're doing is you'll revision for an exam.
56:59
And every time we go on air, we want to ideally pass with flying
57:02
colours that we don't know what's quite going to come up on
57:04
the exam paper, of course. And, and I think it's the same
57:07
with Laurie that she spends that time researching and analysing
57:12
in advance and we talk a boatload off air.
57:16
And particularly in the first week of the tournament and
57:19
before it, we were going through all the different teams and
57:21
going through what we knew. And we always going through in
57:25
advance with our little pal Matt Bastat, a guy called Matthew
57:28
Plachek who's just fabulous. He's, he's going to be a great
57:32
commentator or coach or whatever.
57:34
He's going to be himself and we go through all our thoughts
57:40
about what's going to happen in the game and she'll always come
57:42
at it from an analytical point of view and we'll always talk
57:44
about say key match ups and in a, you know, that side could be
57:48
really interesting. Lucy Bronze against whoever.
57:50
That's going to be brilliant. And we'll try and pick things
57:52
out for the audience. And then in game she analysis
57:56
and analysis. And I'm sure you 2 are the same.
57:58
When you're watching tons of football matches, you don't want
58:02
the colour analysts or the Co commentator or whatever they're
58:05
called to say something really obvious that you can see.
58:09
You really want them to say something that you actually
58:12
hadn't thought of. You can see who's on top, you
58:15
can see who's got most of the ball.
58:17
But why are the opposition not responding?
58:20
Is it because the team that's dominating possession?
58:23
Usually Spain are so fantastic or do we give credit to the
58:27
defending or you know, what's happening in this game.
58:29
So I think I think it's that it's she's just a very good
58:33
analyst who does her homework, who knows what to expect, knows
58:35
where the players are, right footed, left footed, knows what
58:39
they're trying to do in the game from a tactical point of view
58:41
and will always come armed with information to know what to look
58:44
out for and then will give an opinion.
58:47
I think that's really important too, especially in women's
58:49
football. I think it's really hard,
58:51
particularly for women. I really do, because it's quite
58:53
a small world. And if you're commentating on
58:56
players you used to play for, that must be horrendous.
58:59
And I think if you're or even in a studio, but if they're
59:02
players, maybe you don't know or they're not going to be watching
59:05
back that night, maybe it's a little bit easier.
59:07
But you do have to say if it's a mistake by a goalkeeper.
59:10
And I think in the women's game, that is really important and
59:13
Laurie will do that. But it's never anything
59:15
personal. It's always, it's always
59:18
analytical about the actual game.
59:20
And I think women's players want that now, I think, and she
59:22
obviously does men's football as well in in MLS for Apple.
59:26
But you have to analyze what you're seeing.
59:29
It's never personal, it's never vindictive.
59:31
It's just analysing football matches.
59:32
And I think people respect that. And that's why she's getting
59:35
tons of work everywhere. So she should.
59:38
Well, we definitely appreciate your guys work.
59:40
Who, who would have thought you and Lori Lindsay touch tight
59:43
just getting it done. Jackie, you've been incredibly
59:46
gracious with your time. We really, really appreciate it.
59:50
I, I got to apologize in advance.
59:52
We do a fun thing on the show. We talk a little bit about, you
59:55
know, the commentary, you know, just because we, we get
59:57
especially excited when we see something that the the
1:00:00
commentator sees as well. We're like, oh, yeah, we're on
1:00:02
it. But we do a weird thing where we
1:00:05
refer to you as goatly. As an offshoot of GOAT, it's
1:00:08
like GOAT greatest of all time. I hope that's not offensive.
1:00:11
Sometimes people do get offended a little bit when there's
1:00:14
there's a little bit of that. I've never heard that one before
1:00:17
and I don't think I'll ever hear it again, but thank you.
1:00:19
Well, Jackie, really appreciate the time.
1:00:22
Thank you so, so much for joining us.
1:00:24
Great work by you and the entire team.
1:00:28
Oh, there you go. You really made the tournament
1:00:31
pretty special for us. That's my voice.
1:00:33
Say hi to Jackie Oatley. What a way to finish what?
1:00:37
I think we're, I think he's telling me the show's over.
1:00:40
I'm so soppy. That's the.
1:00:43
Cutest Jackie, we appreciate it. Thank thank you for for rocking
1:00:47
with us. Thank you, Grant, thank you
1:00:48
Dino. Absolute pleasure and thanks so
1:00:50
much for having me on. Thanks for watching as well.
1:00:53
Likewise, thanks to everybody for checking out the show.
1:00:55
I'll just get to the outro right now.
1:00:57
Thanks for always leaving comments on the videos and we
1:01:00
will see you all next time.