Latest / Hurdle with Emily Abbate / The Art of Storytelling: Documenting the World's Greatest Endurance Athletes & Why Every Milestone Matters With Documentary Photographer Aisha McAdams

Transcript

The Art of Storytelling: Documenting the World's Greatest Endurance Athletes & Why Every Milestone Matters With Documentary Photographer Aisha McAdams · Hurdle with Emily Abbate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: I had had running protect me and save me from
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: a lot of things. But then it also became Oh
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: it's Aisha the Runner. It became my entire identity. I mean,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: I still will bump into people in my hometown and
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, are you still running, and I'm like, yep,
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  Speaker 1: I am, but I'm also doing you know.
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  Speaker 2: A B and C.
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  Speaker 3: Hey everyone, Emily a Badi Here you are listening to
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  Speaker 3: another episode of Hurdle, a podcast featuring the mindset, secrets,
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  Speaker 3: and true stories of the most inspiring women in sports
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  Speaker 3: and wellness, empowering you to live a healthier, happier, more
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  Speaker 3: motivated life and of course, conquer your own hurdles. Today's
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  Speaker 3: guest is documentary photographer and filmmaker Aisha McAdams, whose lens
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  Speaker 3: has captured some of the most profound moments in the
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  Speaker 3: endurance sports Worldysha has a unique gift for seeing the
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: human behind the athlete, a perspective that's beautifully showcased in
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  Speaker 3: her upcoming documentary Learning to Fly, which debuted at the
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Teleride Film Festival and will be hopefully out for mass
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  Speaker 3: release very soon. In our conversation today, I usually gets
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  Speaker 3: vulnerable about the personal path that led her to this point,
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  Speaker 3: including the power of connection, how being a foster child
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: and an adoptee taught her at a young age to
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: navigate new environments and find identity through people around her.
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  Speaker 3: Curiosity is a superpower why she leans into her natural
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  Speaker 3: impulse to peek over the fence as we call it
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  Speaker 3: and connect with strangers, even after facing early challenges that
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  Speaker 3: tested her openness, plus a finding balance the way she
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  Speaker 3: manages the riptide professional transitions and personal hurdles by leaning
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: into organic relationships and the simple joy of a neighborhood
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  Speaker 3: soup Sunday to share so many special stories from her
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  Speaker 3: time working with some of the best to ever do
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  Speaker 3: it in the endurance space. Talks a lot about how
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  Speaker 3: running has foundationally impacted her to be a better version
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  Speaker 3: of herself, and we wrap about the hurdles that go
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  Speaker 3: hand in hand with being a woman in her field,
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  Speaker 3: why it's important for her to humanize the athlete, share
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  Speaker 3: what she knows with her community, and truly show up
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  Speaker 3: as her most authentic self. Her story's attestament to the
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  Speaker 3: fact that while we all face hurdles, it's the community
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  Speaker 3: that we build and the curiosity we maintain that truly
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  Speaker 3: helps us sore.
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  Speaker 4: Make sure you're following along with Hurdle over on social
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: It's over at Hurdle podcast. You can also check.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Out iHeart Woman's Sports over at iHeart Women's Sports and
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: me over at Emily a Body. Listen to Hurdle with
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Emily a Body over on iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts or
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: wherever you get your podcasts.
• 2:57
  Speaker 4: And with that, let's get to it. Get it to
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  Speaker 4: a hurdling today. I am sitting down with Ayisha McAdams.
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  Speaker 3: She is a documentary photographer in the endurance space.
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  Speaker 4: Aisha, Welcome to Hurdle. How are we I'm great.
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  Speaker 2: I'm great.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: It's like twenty two degrees feels really warm compared to
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: the last few days.
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  Speaker 3: Oh my god, A bomb me twenty two degrees. I
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  Speaker 3: think the high today might be thirty four.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's way better than the negative two.
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  Speaker 4: I Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Listen.
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  Speaker 3: I am so stoked to have you in here today
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  Speaker 3: because I got an advanced screening of your documentary Learning
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  Speaker 3: to Fly, which debuted last year at the Teleride Film Festival.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, so not out for mass consumption just yet yet,
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  Speaker 3: but I got a screener of it, and it was
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  Speaker 3: fantastic and I could not wait to sit down and
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  Speaker 3: yap with you about it. But before we get there,
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  Speaker 3: I like to level set when people come into the studio,
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: how are you doing?
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  Speaker 2: Really, I'm doing good.
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  Speaker 1: I'm doing I guess it's kind of a general statement,
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  Speaker 1: but I feel like the last year was, like, you know,
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  Speaker 1: I think for a lot of us, there was a
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: lot of like, you know, challenges. It felt like I
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: was caught in a riptide at points. But currently right
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  Speaker 1: now today like been really leaning into my community, my neighborhood,
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  Speaker 1: my running. So I'm excited for the new year. What
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  Speaker 1: were some of the challenges just transition? Honestly, there was
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  Speaker 1: this is heavy There was a mass shooting in my neighborhood. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I think those two things, Like there was some career
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  Speaker 1: shifts and you know, being faced with something that was
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  Speaker 1: close to home and kind of trying to adjust with
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  Speaker 1: that and just.
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  Speaker 2: You know, finding balance.
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  Speaker 1: But I've been really really pushing to like lean into
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  Speaker 1: my like literally my community, like my direct community, so
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  Speaker 1: like my.
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  Speaker 2: Eighty two year old neighbors across the street.
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  Speaker 1: Like like all of that, and I've been like, I
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  Speaker 1: you know, I think you get this, like in our career,
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  Speaker 1: you tried. I'm traveling like every week on a play,
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  Speaker 1: and so it's like, you know, when you have moments
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  Speaker 1: of stillness at home, being able to have organic relationships
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  Speaker 1: with people that aren't planned two weeks out, that are
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  Speaker 1: just like knocking on your neighbor's door, Like this past
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  Speaker 1: Sunday we all had soup because it was a snow day.
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  Speaker 2: Oh well naturally, yeah, everyone from our street.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's like it's, you know, I
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  Speaker 1: live a very exciting life of travel and meeting all
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  Speaker 1: different kinds of incredible people. But I think sometimes the
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  Speaker 1: simple side of things is really nice, refreshing.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. So sorry to hear about the shooting.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously I knew about the shooting, but you
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  Speaker 3: are based in the Providence area. Yeah, and I cannot
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  Speaker 3: even fathom what that came with for you.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just I think it's just a nationwide issue,
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  Speaker 1: but it's like when it happens close to home, it's
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  Speaker 1: it's you.
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  Speaker 4: Know, it's different.
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  Speaker 1: So but it just also reminded me how much I
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  Speaker 1: love my community in my neighborhood, and.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, how special it is for you to know that
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  Speaker 3: you have this value of community and the opportunity to
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  Speaker 3: lean into that when things feel hard is really special.
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  Speaker 3: Has that always been something that's been very resonant with
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  Speaker 3: you community?
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  Speaker 1: You know? It's funny, like I just finally got to
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  Speaker 1: share the film with my family. I've and in my
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  Speaker 1: close family and friends, and I had it in this
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  Speaker 1: tiny little theater a few blocks over from my spot,
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  Speaker 1: and I was able to have basically everyone who's kind
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  Speaker 1: of been a part of my life, down to like
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  Speaker 1: my middle school coach who I haven't seen in like
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  Speaker 1: seventeen years or something, and I had everyone.
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  Speaker 2: It was like over one hundred and forty people, and
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  Speaker 2: it was.
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  Speaker 1: Like everyone who's had an impact in my life in
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  Speaker 1: one place, and I got to share the film with
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  Speaker 1: them and also just thank them and like look out
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  Speaker 1: and see all of them. And it's actually been something
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  Speaker 1: I've been like, I was like joking to someone, I
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  Speaker 1: was like, I don't know what it's like to get married,
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  Speaker 1: but I feel like this was like way better of
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  Speaker 1: an experience, just because it was like it was this
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  Speaker 1: accumulation of people who've had my community, who have had
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  Speaker 1: an impact in my life. For again, like seventeen plugs
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  Speaker 1: like for a really long time and having them all
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  Speaker 1: in one space and being able to thank them and
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  Speaker 1: tell them that like all of all of this, my
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  Speaker 1: entire like my career, just where I'm at in life
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  Speaker 1: wouldn't have been possible if like each of them because
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  Speaker 1: they all just had these like little small you know,
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  Speaker 1: parts of it are huge parts of it. So yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I think it's it's been a part of my life
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  Speaker 1: for a while, like the importance of community. I just
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  Speaker 1: don't think you realize it until you're kind of like faced.
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  Speaker 2: With that moment.
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  Speaker 1: And definitely the film screening, I was like, oh my gosh, Wow,
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  Speaker 1: I'm like so lucky. And I've been like doing these
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  Speaker 1: runs and like you know when you're on like high
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  Speaker 1: on dopamine or like endorphins. So I've been training for
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  Speaker 1: an ultra and I've been like, you know, doing these
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  Speaker 1: really long runs and then I'm finishing the run just
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  Speaker 1: thinking about my and I'm like, I get like emotional.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, I think it's just like this.
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  Speaker 1: It's like I'm getting finally warm because it's so cold out.
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, a couple hours into my run.
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  Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, it is something I can really relate
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  Speaker 3: to when you say, I imagine this is what a
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  Speaker 3: wedding would feel like when you have these moments of
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  Speaker 3: personal celebration and you're at this point in your life
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  Speaker 3: where you do have other people that mean so much
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  Speaker 3: to you, that are celebrating these more conventional milestones within society,
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  Speaker 3: and here you are at this crazy intersection of professional
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  Speaker 3: excellence right where you are celebrating such a major milestone
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  Speaker 3: that those people may never even get to relish in themselves. Right,
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  Speaker 3: So it can be an and both. It can be
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  Speaker 3: a wow, how great is it that I get to
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  Speaker 3: do this?
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  Speaker 4: Wow?
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  Speaker 3: How great is it that I am surrounded by this community? Wow,
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  Speaker 3: this is what I imagine a wedding would feel like. And
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  Speaker 3: maybe there is a twinge of I haven't had the
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  Speaker 3: opportunity to do something like this yet.
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  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I think so.
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  Speaker 1: I think even just like again holding the space to
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  Speaker 1: be like thank you, and and maybe it's like I
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  Speaker 1: compare it to like what the feeling of a but
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  Speaker 1: like maybe it's an entirely different experience, but it's something
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  Speaker 1: that I was like, I am going to cherish this
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  Speaker 1: moment for this is going to stay in my mind.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, for a very long time, and you said that
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  Speaker 3: there were a very wide range of people.
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  Speaker 4: There, huge range of people.
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  Speaker 1: Uh huh, I like joke, like my friends joke, they're
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  Speaker 1: like you have the most like the stories and like
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  Speaker 1: relationships you have with people, just my friends.
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  Speaker 2: Like it's a very wide array to Like I remember.
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  Speaker 1: In college, I used to we would do the same
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  Speaker 1: running loop over and over, like you know, and there
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  Speaker 1: would be this dog at this junkyard that I would
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  Speaker 1: like always stop and say hi to, and then like
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  Speaker 1: eventually I befriended the owner.
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  Speaker 2: Jake was the dog.
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  Speaker 1: And then like over time over my years in school,
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  Speaker 1: like the guy Peter who like was his owner, Like
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: he and he's.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: At the he came to the he came to the scream.
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  Speaker 1: Like a seventy you know, a seventy plus year old
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  Speaker 1: guy from outside of Boston. Like he was just and
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  Speaker 1: he was like he felt just as like it was
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  Speaker 1: just as meaningful to.
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  Speaker 2: Have him there as like my college coach and.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and that's a testament to your curiosity. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: and the way that your curiosity opens up this really
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: beautiful opportunity for connection. Yeah, So to have a wide
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: diverse group of individuals come together to celebrate you. Well,
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: then I would expect nothing less because that's the energy
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: that you've put out into the world. And what I
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: find so commendable for you, and what's really touched on
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  Speaker 3: within the documentary is it could have been very easy
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  Speaker 3: for you not to be this open minded, curious person.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this game of like or not game, you know,
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  Speaker 1: when you like process who you are, right, Like, how
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: did I get to the place I'm at? And I think,
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  Speaker 1: like that curious side of me, I've been like that
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  Speaker 1: since I was really since I was a kid, Like
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: I remember like peeking over my neighbor, like climbing the
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: fence to like peer into the the gramma next door's
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: yard and like, but you know, I think there were
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: points where I was kind of told it was like,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: you know, almost like reprimanded for being curious. But then
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: I think, like, that's just kind of been my superpower.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: And I think, like I just started, you know, once
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  Speaker 1: I found or was like you know, someone kind of
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: recognized that it was a positive thing, and then I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: kind of just like was able to kind of take
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: off with it. But I think, like, you know, it's
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: this game of like is the curate like is it
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: nature versus nurture. I think there's like a lot of
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: things in my life that like have made me really
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: open to connecting with like people or just seeing them,
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: you know, as people versus like the idea of like
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: don't talk to people.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: You don't know, what's your earliest memory of being in
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: a place where you felt like you needed to be
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: open with connecting with people that maybe you didn't know
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  Speaker 3: so well.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like there's stories of me as
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: a kid, Like I don't even know if it's my
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: earliest memory, but like it's tricky because I think there's
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: this level of like having been adopted and then having
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: been in foster care, Like there's just this like you
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: you learn at a young age to like be around
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: like like what is your identity of family or connection?
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  Speaker 1: Because I remember my parents always telling me stories that
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: like I was way too friendly with people as a kid.
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  Speaker 3: But even coming into your adopted parents' home, what a
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: moment for you to recognize that you had to be
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: open to this new set of circumstances.
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  Speaker 1: I was fortunate where my sister and I were adopted together, Yeah,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: and so we had like this familiarity with each other
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm one of eight kids, so there's like
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: we're just like this, you know, it's it's a huge
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: age gap. There's I call a joke, it's like two
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: litters like four and four. I think because of that too,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: like you know, all of my sil like it was
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: kind of just like we kind of meshed into it.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I also think like the comfort of having
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: my sister with me was like a huge part of
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: like finding.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: That I lived in.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: We moved around a lot as a kid, Like we moved.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I was born in Washington State, then Idaho, New Jersey, Texas,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: and then finally Rhode Island. And I remember when we
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: lived in New Jersey, I was probably like five or six,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: like just peeking over. We called her the Gramma next door,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: and like we would just I would like mosey over
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: there and just talk to her, and then she would
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: have us come in and we would play like board
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: games and eat cookies and milk. And I feel like
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: I still do that in some sense, like like have
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: open door policies with like my friends and family and
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: neighbors where we just kind of like I just poke
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: my head in and say hi.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but you said at times your curiosity was reprimanded.
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: What did that look like?
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: My mother had struggled with a lot of like mental
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: health and alcoholism, and I think I was always like
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: when I was a kid, I was always like I
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: was always you know, I was a chatty kid.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I would always want to talk to people.
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: But there were points where I was told that I
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: was like too loud or trying to get attention or
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: trying I was I was. You know, there were points
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: where my mother would tell me was trying to tell
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: me who I was. And you know, at that point,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: there were points where, like, you know, my curiosity is
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: something that is like a core being of who I am,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and so there were points where she would try and
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: you know, control that or restrain it in a sense,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and like isolating me, which I think is like probably
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: one of my like I really like I was just
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: mentioning like community is so important to me. You know,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: that's where you know, kind of trying to like dim
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: the flame in a sense. But I think like when
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: I started running, I'd started finding so many of these
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: people that I could connect with and relate to. And
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: how much can you learn about someone you go on
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: to run? You go on a long run, you learn
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: a lot about someone.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, there's that level of sweat equity as well. Right,
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: It's like when you show up and you get into
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: something with someone, the walls come down and then you
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: have almost this uncommunicated relationship that we're here doing a
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: hard thing together, so we might as well get into
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: the woods.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean and like the beauty of that, right,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Like as typically you're not on your phone, you're like
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: all of the things that are mattering in the world
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: kind of go away like that, You're so right, it's
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: like this one hour or whatever amount of time where
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: you can kind of just be and be present in it,
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: and like you can go through that with someone else,
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: and like it's also this point where like you can
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: talk about things and you can know that it's.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Like a safe space to just talk about whatever it is.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: And I mean, I remember when I was a kid,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: like I would run with my older brother Patrick, and
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: like those those were some of my earliest moments of
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: feeling heard. Was you know, we would go on these
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: runs and I would finally have a place where I
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: could like talk and walk through things, and like you know,
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: he would give me advice or he would just listen
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: and we would you know, we would just be doing
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: that through running around like his you know his like
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: he lives in Montclair.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: We would just like run around the block over there.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: And yeah, yeah, So when you started running, what was
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: your why for that?
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: So it's funny.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: When I first started running, like it was just because
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: like I was a kid and I would just like
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: literally run around. We had this play play set and
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: my sisters, I'm the youngest of my family, they would
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: have there's this swing set and there's only two swings,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: so they would just have me run around so I
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: didn't get like so they could have the swings and
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: they would like sing this song to me. And then
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I just naturally, like, you know, since I was a
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: young kid, I was always running around.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: I just am a very energetic kid. But then.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Like I really started taking running, not like more consistently,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: when I was in middle school in high school, And.
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: Honestly, my why was just.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: It was this sense of freedom and like I think
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of there was a solid amount of like
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: I mentioned this earlier of my childhood that was like
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: isolation and almost this feeling and feeling stuck or trapped,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and when I started running.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: I started feeling.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: This like like like legitimate sigh of relief where I
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: could like actually like be.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Outside around people around like my peers and like just
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: be normal, you know, like just feel like I was
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: this like have just have this sense of normalcy because
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: I think like things at home were just you know,
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I think at the time, I didn't realize that they
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: weren't normal, but they were just so isolating, and.
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: That was actually going to be My next question is
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: that did you have an understanding at a young age,
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: and if we're talking about middle school at this point.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: No, I mean I think, like I think I just
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: thought that this is like it's funny because I remember
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: when I went to college, even I would I would,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: you know, just be talking, you know, yeapping with my
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: friends or my girlfriends, and then I would say these
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: things and then.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: Just realize that like their responses were not it was
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: not a normal you know.
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: Right, it was a normal lived experience.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: And then I started realizing, oh, like that's not you know,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: it's not that I was a bad kid.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: That was just abuse.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: But also again, like then I had these I still
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: had these moments with my like high school cross country
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: teams that were like so incredible. It was like the
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: space where I had where like we had big sister,
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: little sister, where like you know you're making your like
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: writing little cross country notes to people and you know
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: all loading up on the bus before me and like singing,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: uh oh are.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: The songs that we would remember.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like I heard one the other day and
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, this is the blast
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: from the past.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: A little time warp.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so interesting when you take a step back
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: and realize that you wouldn't have known it wasn't normal
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: unless there was this opportunity for conversation, unless maybe you
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: had done something different, unless you had involved yourself in
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: these activities and gotten outside of the bubble. Because when
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: you're in the bubble, it might feel some kind of way,
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: but you don't know that that's not the normal.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think like it was a point too,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: like so, and I don't know if the film necessarily
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: touches upon this, but like when I joined my high
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: school cross country team, you know, I started having a
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: lot of success. And my high school coach, coach Wilson,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: who is she's mentioned in the film.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: She's in the film. She started she lived like seven
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: houses down the street from me.
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: Oh wow.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: And so she would start taking me to practice, and
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: then she would start like taking me to ipt appointments,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and then like taking me to my doctor's appointments, and
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: then like I started sleeping on her couch, and then
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I started sleeping.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: On our couch for like a couple of weeks.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: And then you know, next thing, you know, like she
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: actually ended up like becoming my legal guardian, my like
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: junior and senior year, and so like to come from
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: you know, my experience at home, my relationship with my mother,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: and then to then have this relationship with what is
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: wild to me as she was twenty seven years.
• 20:44
  Speaker 4: Old when she took you seven as your legal guardian.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah wow.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: She had a new baby, Emmy, and she was twenty seven.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: And I remember when I turned twenty seven. I'm thirty
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: now just thinking about taking in like a sixteen angsty
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: sixteen to seven eighteen year old into your home and like,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: you know, she's she jokes, like we say, she's like
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: you're my fifth daughter. But like then to have you know,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: this sense of normalcy as well was like again you
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: go back to like when I was like having this moment,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: sharing it with my friends and family, and like, she's
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: someone that I constantly think about and I'm constantly grateful
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: for because like she created that idea of unconditional love
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: and showing up and being there.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, she's still she still checks in with me
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: all the time.
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, what did that transition look like for you?
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: To go from you know, sleeping there sporadically to then
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: her ultimately becoming your guardian.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: At the time, it honestly became an issue.
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Like the biggest reason was because she would take me
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: to these doctor's appointments, and because I wasn't eighteen, it
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: was like, this is like legality a difficult thing, right,
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: But it honestly, I mean, it was just the transition itself,
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: because it was like I would go and I would
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: sleep on our couch for like two weeks, and then
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: I would go home, and then you know, something would
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: happen and then I'd run over to her house and
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: then stay there again. So it kind of became this
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: band aid effect, and so eventually it got to a
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: point where it was like, you know, just this jostling
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: for like a young teenager, like why not create something
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: that's a little more stable like this consistency, and.
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: How was that received by your parents?
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: You know, my mom at this point, my parents were
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: already divorced. I think, you know, at this point, I
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: kind of started recognizing that my relationship with my mother
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: was not something that was healthy.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: And you know, I think my dad.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: I love my dad so much, he is so incredible,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: and I think he knew at this point that it
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: was like the right thing to do. Like, I think
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: he knew that that's what I needed. And I think, like,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I think it was so honestly incredibly selfless of him
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: to be able to recognize that that's what I needed,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: because it just wasn't necessarily the situation that I could
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: get all of those things being at home, And so
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: I think, like, I don't know what it was like.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know how how that would have necessarily been
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: to experiences as a father, especially because he does love
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: me so much, But I think it was really selfless
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: for him to be able to like recognize that and
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: be able to have know that was what was best
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: for me.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: And also like kind of your first insight, i'm sure,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: as a young woman into what it looks like to
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: choose yourself.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: You know, I knew at the point that it was
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: like important, like I felt, you know, I think at
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: this point, I didn't even know what your nervous system was, right,
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: but I knew that I felt more comfortable, safer.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: My grades were going.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: Up, I was had routine, I was eating you know,
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: had you know, my lunch packed for me every day,
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: and dinner was always predicted. Everything was predictable, right, And
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that was like the first time that I felt like
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I wasn't trying to remember like the cracks in the floor,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: and I was like stuck in my bedroom like just weird,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: Like I wasn't walking on eggshells anymore. I didn't have
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: to be strategic. I didn't have to know whether love
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I was going to be loved or not. And I
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: think it was really difficult because I think it felt
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: like I was leaving something behind and it was really scary.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: But I also knew that I felt better and I
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: knew that I was doing better. So it's like, you know,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: you can have this sense of like this has been
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: my entire life, this is what you're supposed to do,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: or this is what you expect is supposed to be
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: this you know the way, but then you start noticing
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: like again, like my grades started going up, and I
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: started like eating better and like just like nourishing myself
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: or being nourished, like not necessarily needing to like have
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: to do everything on my own or fight to get
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: things done or fight to feel you know, to feel safe.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: But you know, you go through this experience where you
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: just think that that's like but that is what it is.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: But then you have to kind of like, yeah, you
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: have to make the decision and be brave enough. And
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: also again I think it it did happen kind of organically,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: but there were there were a few moments growing up
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: where I like kind of had to be like this
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: is not good for me anymore. And as much as
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I want to control it or like have control over
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: this scenario, like like to change things, I can't control
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: other people, and so like, this is what is going.
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: To be, Like what is it that's within my control
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: at this moment? To move forward, which it's it requires
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: an aspect of being willing to accept these things. To
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: be in this place where you stop getting so angry
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: about the things that you can't control or upset about
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: the things that you can't control, and rather shift that
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: anger into I'm going to take this ownership. I'm going
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: to be in this place where I understand that if
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: I can just put this anger or this sadness or
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: this frustration to the side for a little bit, then
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: maybe I'll be in the position to open the door
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: to a better.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Way for sure.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And I think, like any teenager, there's always resentment.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Like every teenager is probably resentful in stuff form.
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: I'm resentful as an adult.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Come on, but I used to carry I used to
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: carry a lot of resentment and like frustration and anger.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: And then I think as soon as I learned to
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: just like let go of that, it also just allowed
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: me to again really focus on this like also the
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: things that did show up for me, the people who
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: did show up for me, which is so much of
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: a healthier thing to have in your mind than like
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: this feeling of if this was different or if this
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: was you know.
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: And that's because energy attracts like energy.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: So when you're living in this place where you're coming
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: from this victim mindset or this scared mindset, you're going
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: to look around and things aren't going to look so
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: shiny and bright.
• 26:59
  Speaker 4: But when you give.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: Yourself the space to get out of those rooms to
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: get out of these dark places. Then you realize, like
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: it doesn't need to be so dim all the time.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: You have like the stories and the interactions I have
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: with people, or like how I just bump into these
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: people and then become.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Print whatever it is, and like.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: I've kind of just started expressing because they're like, oh,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: this is a Naisha moment, right, this is it? Like
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, yes, but you can have this experience too,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: you just have to open yourself up to it. If
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you open yourself up to again open your heart up
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: to like having these moments. I do believe that, like
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: it can it can happen for anybody. I don't even
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: just the walk over here. There was this gal who
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: walked by me and like she had these like she
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: had a pair of gloves on from this pet place
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: in Boston wellness Emotion, and I was like wellness Emotion.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: She was like, oh my god.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I was like and I saw her face. I
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: was like, wait, you're Amy. I remember you from like
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: seven years ago. We've actually never met before, but I
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: recommended you to this design jaw and she's like, oh
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: my gosh, I should.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: My brother was like this is such a you moment.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, yeah, But I also think if
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: you just look up and you have these like you can.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Have these You can have these moments too.
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, if you just look up, such an important reminder.
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: Now we talked about you moving in with your running coach,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: I want to talk a little bit about foundationally, what
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: running did for you during a time that made you
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: feel like maybe otherwise you didn't have so much stability
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: your community.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: It created this framework for me.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: I think growing up, I kind of always thought that
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I was a bad kid. You know, I was told
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: that I was a bad kid. And I think it
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: was the first time that I started being recognized being
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: good at something. And then I started being I had,
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: you know, younger athletes start looking up to me. So
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I started becoming a role model. I started becoming a leader.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: I started learning like what you know, what like being
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: on a team meant, and how how these healthy relationships
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: and dynamics worked.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: What's it being a leader look like for you?
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: I think it was like showing up and being consistent
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: and also just like believing in other people and like
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: vocalizing that and like recognizing like words of affirmation. Because
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: I think that that was also something that wasn't always
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: a familiar thing. But then like, running is this very
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: tangible experience, and so I think it was it was
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: a very simple thing to understand and to like encourage others. Yeah,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I think it was just like it just it. It
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: gave me this framework and stability that I had never
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: really had before. But it's also I think, and this
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: is something that I've I think a lot of people
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: can probably experience when you you know, get into something
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: and it gives you all of this great you know,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: it changes, it can change the trajrectory of your life.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: It can also create this you know, For me, it
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: became this level of but if if if this isn't
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: going perfect, then like everything is crumbling, and you know,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: I had had running, you know, protect me and save
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: me from a lot of things. But then it also
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: became oh it's Ayisha the runner. Yeah, it became my
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: entire identity. I mean, I still will bump into people
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: in my hometown and they're like, oh, are you still running?
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, yep, I am, But I'm also doing
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: you know, a B and C. Because it kind of
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: became this, It just kind of became this part of
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: me that was the whole ayesha. And when it becomes
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: your entirety, I think there your perspective of it can
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: kind of be off kiltered at points. Yeah, you know,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I would have these moments where I was like, well,
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: if I'm not winning or if I'm not you know,
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: are people going to like me as much?
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: Are they going to love me? Is this like?
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: And I would carry this like pressure And so it's
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: like it's a tricky you know, it's a trick keep
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: balance in life when you have these like really special things,
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: because then if it's like the first time you've ever
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: been introduced to these feelings, you want to just like
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: have it all the time. So I definitely had to
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: like recognize that and like work through a lot of
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: work through a lot of anxiety around it because it
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: kind of just became this like from what it served
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: for me, it also started like kind of weighing on
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: me this other layer of like pressure.
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: And how did you know that it got to be
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: too much?
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: How did you know that so much of your identity
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: was wrapped up in this particular aspect of your life.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, the physical signs of me just getting like
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: literally I would get sick before my races. I would
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: be so scared and so nervous of failing that I
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: would I would make my I would literally get sick.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: I would start throwing up before races. I would if
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: I wasn't winning, like my eyes, like I would be
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: like again the stud in the race, or like drop
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: out or like come in dead life.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: There was no there was it was black or white.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: There was no ine between.
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: And so you know, I had fortunately, I mean I
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: had my My college coach was incredible, Coach Bowen, and
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: she like I finally like started I started making you know,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: leaps and bounds of like just like finding.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: A better relationship with it.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: But then you know, you also go through the experience
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: when you like I was a high you know, high
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: school athlete, college athlete, and then you go through the
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: experience of like finding your identity with it as just
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: a person outside of this framework. And that's why I
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: think it was really like, you know, my background is
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: in like track and field, and so it's been really
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: nice to start exploring these like really this foreign territory
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: like where it's not a matter of like time isn't
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: a matter in ultras like maybe if you're like the
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: Kreme de la Creme top, but like it's still there's
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: so many variables in ultra running and trail running that
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: you cannot control. And you can have these moments in
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: these races where like you can literally like totally crash
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: and you have to bring yourself out of the ashes
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: in a sense. And like you know, with track you
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: for me at least, it's just this finite amount of
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: time that's so small, and it's like this, if one
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: thing goes wrong, like how can you kind of like
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: fix it? And in the longer races, like you kind
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: of are going to expect that something's going to happen,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: Like something will happen, and you just know that, like
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: you just have to kind of adjust and you have
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: to pivot, and that's what it is.
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So you pick up a camera and you think,
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: maybe this is a good way for me to learn
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: a little bit more about myself.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, I, like, you know, picked up a camera
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: here and there when I was in high school, and
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: then when I was in college, I you know, it
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: was a three season athlete.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: That was a huge part of my identity.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: But then I started taking these photo classes and journalism
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: classes and really started also seeing a new bit of identity,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: Like I started finding myself in the arts building a
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: lot more like when I wasn't at Price Actice. I
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: was an arts building and I was like working on
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: photo stories and editing and like again starting to lean
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: into like working at the newspaper, and like I started
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: feeling a little bit more of a fifty to fifty ayesha.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: And then I also started there were points where my
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: you know, my performance, I was racing better because it
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: wasn't this like all in But then yeah, I think
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: I think it was also just this ability to take
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: two things that I loved and combine the two and
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: then use that, you know, I think growing up I
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: was always just again, oh I usure the runner. And
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: then to be able to use my camera to go
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: and work with these athletes who are seen, you know
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: as these sometimes machines are like who are they as
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: you know their times or their performances, But then to
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: be able to use my camera to show that, you know,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: someone like Ellie is also an incredible mother and a
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: huge like advocate for dairy farming, and like just these
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: like different levels of how athletes are multifaceted people and
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: how like, yes, they're athletes, but like there's so much
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: more than that, right, And it's been really rewarding to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: be able to like use it to kind of shine
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: light on that.
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: I think the struggle is often overlooked. Society's obsessed with
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: the finish line. But through your creative work, what you
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: like to focus on is the moments in between. Is
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: the moments of agony, are the quiet moments when you're
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: at an aid station, Right, There's so much beauty in that,
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: but holistically it's something that a lot of people tend
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: to miss. So the question really is A why do
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: you think that people aren't so obsessed with the journey?
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: And b what is it about the struggle that entertains
• 35:53
  Speaker 4: you the.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: Most in terms of people's like fixation on, like, you know,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: how are people going to do?
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: What's the final outcome?
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Part of that, I think is honestly, our attention spans
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: have become quite small and short. Yep. We just have
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: everything that we can consume within and I think this
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: goes beyond just like races, like we can consume something
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: for thirty seconds and move on with it. I mean,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: you look at how even athletes experience like success and
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: like when you know, sometimes if someone does well at
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the Olympics, like contracts are signed within and partnerships within
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: like three hours of the race, right, it has to
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: happen versus you find an athlete, you know, if there's
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: a doping someone gets banned and then they move their
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: spot up like a couple of years later. They don't
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: have that opportunity because the windows so short. So I
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: think there's like I think it's a bit of attent
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: like the attention span just with again social media, et cetera.
• 36:46
  Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: I also just think.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: A bit in our culture is so fixated on that
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: success looks like these these singular performances or moments versus
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: those things that led you to it or those people.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't want to say I'm not
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: interested in that, because I when I'm photographing an athlete,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: like I am committed to, like I get emotional sometimes
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: when I'm like just getting to witness what they're putting
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: themselves through, because they're putting themselves and putting themselves out
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: there in a very vulnerable way, and it's like really
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: commendable what they're doing because you know they're putting themselves
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: out there in this vulnerable place and the world is watching.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: But I also think it's such for me. It's like
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: such an honor and like a like I'm so privileged
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: that I get to experience these other moments with them,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: and I really for me, like because of the way,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: like my relationship run with running was like it just
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: again when I used to have people always be like,
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: you're the runner. I just want it always for people
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: to know that I was something other than that. And
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: so when I get to share these moments with these athletes,
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: like it's also me being like I'm seeing you for
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: who you are.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Not just your performance.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes I probably get like very almost too invested,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: probably like I don't know, I just think I'm so
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: incredibly privileged to be able to have the honor of
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: people welcoming me into their space and their vulnerability and
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: their communities and their people.
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: Well, that's your value of community coming back out right,
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: that's your desire to make these people feel seen. And
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: at the end of the day, that's what we're all
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: looking for. We all want to feel seen and heard.
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: Some of us may be better at vocalizing it than others,
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: but through your work, you have the opportunity to give
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: others something that you felt like you didn't have exactly.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: I also try and like when I'm photographing athletes, I
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: really try and ensure that they have autonomy over the
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: photos that I'm taking of them.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Something that's really important to me is like.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: Honestly knowing when to put like have the camera out
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: and when to put it down. And then also like
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: if they're going through these moments, like because you know
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: sometimes during these races are like even outside of races,
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: like I've been in points where I've like been in
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: the space when an athlete has had like a panic attack,
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: and like I don't need to have the camera out
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: in that situation.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I need to be for that, like I need to
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: be there for them as a friend.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: I also think, at least for me, my responsibility and
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: like just like a part of my my focus as
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: a photographer and like values come down to like just
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: knowing and respecting these athletes as humans first, Like at
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, they have their moments, they
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: have their people, and like knowing the time and place.
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: It's such a testament to who you are.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Though, like to be able to say I know, like
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: I am human first and being able to then again
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: separate your identity from Ayisha the photographer to just Ayisha
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: the good, genuine human being. But I think that sometimes
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: is quite a challenge, right, especially when you have a
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: job to do and there's dollars on the job. Right,
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: But if we want to talk about dollars, well, I
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: mean it gets a lot more intricate than that.
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean there's been times where I've just
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: told the client the brand and be like, hey, I'm
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: not doing it, Like I got to take a step back, like.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: They need space.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that, like, and for the most part,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: brands are pretty understandable about that. Like, I think there
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: is at least the brands that I've worked with, I've
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: been fortunate where like they have been very mindful of
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: like they I think there is the shift, especially in
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: the past few years, that like mental health.
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: Like matters matters.
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: If you want an athlete to perform well, you need
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: them to have a well rounded life and they need
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: to feel supported.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: So yeah, now you are working with some very big
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: brands covering some of the biggest events that happened within
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: the endurance space as well as within track and field.
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: Do you remember the first big get that you ever got.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've talked about this from time to
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: time with people. It was actually a self driven project,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: but I had it was twenty twenty Olympic trials before
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: the world It was like a few weeks before the
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: world shut down. Yeah, in Atlanta, in Atlanta, Georgia for
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: the marathon.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: I think I raced like the mile at bu right
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: before and then hopped on like a Spirit airlines some
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: like sixty dollars, Like was like, okay, i have three
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: hundred dollars to budget. I'm just going to go do
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: this personal project and fly down there like sleep on
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: an air mattress. I hadn't gotten a credential, and I
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: wanted to photograph these moments with athletes in their hotel
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: rooms before.
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: For a lot of these athletes the biggest moment in
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: their careers.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: And I think what was special in this sense was
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: like a lot of these athletes are just everyday people,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: like they have full time jobs or they like just
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: trying to But one of the athletes that I was
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: with was molly's Seidel and she was I think at
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: this point she was with Socony, but she had like
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: started coaching with being coached by John Green. She had
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: gone through a lot of shifts and taken risks in
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: her career. John had as well, and she had She
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: had like welcomed me and a photographer right before the
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: start line.
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: How'd you guys meet? She was in Boston? Well, she was.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: She was in Boston. I was in Boston. John was
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: in Boston. John and I knew each other through college.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: We had like met I think in the Boston Marathon.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: We had like I met her coach, John Green at
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: the marathon, I think maybe the year or two prior.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: I like saw him across the crowd. This was like
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: during the five k, and then him and I managed
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: to like sneak our way into the finish line.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like just weasel our way and then.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: We got kicked out. But we had met each other
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: at that point for the first time. And then I
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: just reached out to him and I was like, would
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: she be down? She was down, you know, it was
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: like she was actually the last person I was I photographed,
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: and then she had to get to the start line,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: and it was that moment.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: She ended up making the Olympic team.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: I just remember photographing like those like split second decisions
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: where I'm like, I either have to be here or there.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I have to make the decision. And that was like
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: for me the first like break that I remember.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: And it was really I think back to that moment
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: too because I remember also it was just like you know,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: the three of us, we ended up becoming really good friends.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: We spent a lot of lockdown together.
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: That kind of just like her career, the trajectory of
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: her career shifted, John's career shifted. My career kind of shifted,
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: And like what happened with the photos. The photos I remember,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: like Sports Illustrated, I like reached out to a bunch
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: of people Sports Illustrated had shared them.
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: And they paid you for them.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: They paid me for I mean, it was an editorial rate.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: It was crazy, but I think Tracksmith had DoD something
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: a time. But also I think it was just like
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I finally felt like I started. That was like the
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: project that I was recognized. People started recognizing me for
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: that style of work.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: And I think that's so important also because yes, you
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: were able to monetize like those photos in a small way. However,
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: what you gained from that was bigger than a monetary gain, Yeah,
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: gained confidence. You gained perhaps in this moment you're saying
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: people started to recognize you in this way like it
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: was such an opportunity.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I think there was just like a sense of legitimacy
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: in my work after that, and just like again that
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: just is the work in the style that It's funny
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: because I look back.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: At those photos and I'm like, oh my gosh, those are.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: Terrible, like just like technically how I shot them, et cetera.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: But I also just look back in those moments and
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I took a risk. I decided I was going to
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: go like scramble together like a small budget and go
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: down there. I did a project that I felt passionate
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: about doing, and I did it and then it paid off.
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: And that doesn't always happen. But I think, like when
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: you look back sometimes at these experiences in life, sometimes
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: I'll be like, oh my gosh, I'm so lucky.
• 45:31
  Speaker 2: How did I?
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: And I remember one time I like called my brother
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: and he's like he's a huge MiG role model to me.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: He's like he's run his a very successful business for
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: like twenty plus years and he's always been like huge
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: role model and he I was calling.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: I called him on and I was like, this happened.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Da da da dah.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: And he was like, I was like, I'm so lucky.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: He goes, but is it luck? He was like, you've
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: also like built this foundation, You've put yourself in these places,
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: You've met, these people, you've opened up in these experiences.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Is like, yeah, there's a little bit of luck that
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: comes along the way, But like you do, don't don't
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: sell yourself short like this.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Some of this is like the work that you've put in,
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: of course.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: And I think sometimes I have these like these magical
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: experiences in my eyes and then I have to like realize, oh,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: like I'm making these decisions, and these decisions that I'm
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: making are leading me to these to these experiences, to
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: these wonderful experiences, and to projects like the documentary.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, like I said, also having the opportunity to
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: photograph some of the most outrageous and special races within
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: endurance running and then also crossing to the track. But
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: when the opportunity to do this documentary came across your
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: email in box, I'm assuming where were you?
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't even an email, like I Max Lowe
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: as the director and Max and I met a few
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: years prior. And it's funny because he was presented with
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: this project. We had met a few years prior on
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: a different project, and that he was filming I was
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: I really resonated. So Max had directed this film Had Torn,
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: which is it's an incredible film. I think it's on
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Disney Plus. And it was about his family. His father
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: was a famous mountaineer who died in an avalanche climbing accident.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: And he explored his family's.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Dynamic and his relationship with his family and father, and
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: he like ruffled feather and like he like dug into things,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: and you know, it seemed like it was this very
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: healing experience for him. And we kept in touch after
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: meeting on the last the project we had worked on together.
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: And I was really curious because I had always kind
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: of wanted to explore this with my family, but like
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't know in what way. Did not think it
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: was going to be a documentary. Would have never experienced
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: like thought that. But so we had kept in touch
• 47:47
  Speaker 1: after his film. But the funny thing is he reached
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: out to me to just better understand trail running.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: So we're on the phone and I'm like, you should
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: talk to this person. D D D D. This person's
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: story is interesting.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: And then like a couple of weeks later, he text
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: me and he's like, hey, friend, would you ever want
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: to talk about your story? And I was like totally
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: caught off guard because I just I'm a storyteller, Like
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: I'm always behind the camera, Like I wasn't expecting someone
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: to want to share my story.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: And so then I.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: Popped on a call with Evan, who's the executive producer,
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: was like right before Boston Marathon, and we just like
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I just kind of was like, it's really complex, I
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: explained a little bit, kind of thought I would never
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: hear from them again. And then I reached out being like,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: so are you interested?
• 48:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: And then it was like a few years went by
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: and here we are.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: A few years went by, a lot of filming, lots
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: of filming, a lot of vulnerability.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: How did that part of it feel for you when
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: you took a step back and you realize this isn't
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: just me going through these memories now, this is me
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: offering these memories to whoever me find them.
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a great question.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: Honestly, it was something where I legitimately worked really closely
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: with my therapist to figure out, like, you know, it's
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: one thing to open up and be vulnerable with your
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: close people, but then to do so on camera is
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: a you know, not just on camera, but for the
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: whole world to eventually see. Was definitely a very intimidating
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: and scary thing. But I I basically like, I think
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: what was important to me when I was working through
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: that is like having still keeping that autonomy of knowing
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: what I was comfortable sharing what I wasn't, you know,
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: Like I think I think everybody should be, you know,
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: have this power to control their narrative. And you know,
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: it was something where I was like, these are the
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: things I'm going to share, and these are the things
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: I'm going to choose to keep within myself because a
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: lot of my past is my past, and like I
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: don't need to necessarily open up those boxes again, or
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: if I do, I want it to be in the
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: space of something else. And so like, I think that
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: was really important to me during the filming to work
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: through what I felt comfortable and then also hold hold
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: things to myself. And I'm honestly, I'm really glad that
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: I decided to make that decision because I think when
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: you sometimes I find when people come out of potentially
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: traumatic situations.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: I remember when I was younger, I.
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: Was just like.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: And because it feels good to finally feel heard.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: But then you kind of.
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: As you get older, you mature, you have these experiences
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: you reflect on it, like sometimes it's just like I've
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: worked through those things.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to leave those things because those.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: Things are now put on put on the shelf, and
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: like they're there, and I tended to them at one point,
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: but I'm okay with them being there.
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I hear that.
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: And how beautiful is it that you found a team
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: of individuals that had the same care and concern for
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: your story that you make it a point to give
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: to the people that you work with.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and that's like Max was Max, and
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: like Jenny and Pablo, there was like there was a
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: whole creative team behind it. And again because I had
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: seen Max tell his story, Like I probably wouldn't have
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: done it if anybody else was directing it, but like
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: Max is someone who I trust, and he's someone that
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: I could tell I could just be open with him
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: and be like nope, na a, and he would respect it.
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: And I can't remember the he had because when we
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: were starting the film, he had recommended me watching another
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: documentary and I'm kicking myself. I can't think of the
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: name right now, but it was this basically another film
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: where this the director explored his relationship with his friends
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: and family. And it was really helpful for me to
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: kind of see this idea of storytelling and telling a
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: story with all Is it like showing versus telling?
• 52:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, totally.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: I mean I had someone on the show many years
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: ago she said something that's always stuck with me, which
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: is that be careful that the sword that you use
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: to help others isn't the one that you fall on.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: And for so long she herself was slowly stepping into
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: the public eye and figuring out how to do so
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: in a way that felt good for her. She knew
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: that she wanted to help people, but she knew that
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: there were parts of her story that didn't need to
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: be the vehicle for that.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: And I think it's so important. It's so important for
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: you and your mental health to understand how can I
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: best move forward in a way that feels good for
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: me exactly.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's like you don't need to always relive
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: certain things. No, And yeah, And I think when I
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: decided that I was going to go through with the film,
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: it was one of those things where I was like, again,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: I had had these moments where people there's like one
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: person who showed up in you know, one way, and
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I was like, if this can just if this can
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: resonate with at least one person to like, you know,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: change the trajectory of one decision that they're making in
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: their life, or potentially leave a relationship or have the
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: courage to go do something else.
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't have to be Running related.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: It can be so like but like I was like,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: and there's people that came to mind that I like,
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: actually like was hoping and want them to see the film,
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: and like invited them to the screening to like kind
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: of as like a subtle way of kind of extending
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: an arm for them.
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's this line you say in the film.
• 53:37
  Speaker 3: It says Running is inherently a selfish act, but it
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: teaches us so much about the dynamics of our relationships,
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: how much we owe the people in our lives, and
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: through that, what it means to love ourselves. I loved
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: that what does it mean for you to love yourself today?
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: I think it's to be gentle on myself, which sounds
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: funny as I'm training for an ultra, but I think
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: it's just like you were mentioning earlier about this, like
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: the end goal or people fixate on this final thing.
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: I have a tendency or I have had a tendency
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: to just.
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: Want to be perfect.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of us, right, A lot of
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of women want to have
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: this like when you're driven, you want to have these goals,
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: and I think it's so important, but like to just
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: be gentle on the process and like to allow myself
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: to just be sometimes because I think that.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Being okay with.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: Just kind of flowing through things sometimes is so valuable
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: in just embracing your true self and not you know,
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: what other people expect you to be. Yeah, and I
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: think that, you know, I think that I do think
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: that what you know, running an ultra or like running
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: these longer things for me has just allowed me to
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: like not fixate on this like hitting certain splits or
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: doing like and it's also kind of encouraged me to
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: like really nourish myself a bit more, not just like
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: in terms of like the physicality of sleeping and eating,
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: but like just like nourishing, like resting when I need
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: to rest, like not just like physically sleeping, but like
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: just relaxing and like not putting.
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: Knowing that stress is stress.
• 55:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: Stress is not just physical stress. It's emotional stress.
• 55:36
  Speaker 4: It's all of that. Yeah.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: And so knowing when I'm like, Okay, I need to
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: take I need to take an eight you should day, I.
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: Need to take an eye shoulday?
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: Maybe need to like not do the twelfth project within
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: four weeks, something that you as an entrepreneur yourself, it's
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: hard to turn down.
• 55:52
  Speaker 4: Before I let you go today, I would be remiss.
• 55:54
  Speaker 3: And we didn't touch on the chapter where you start
• 55:56
  Speaker 3: your own creative agency, especially because you are a female
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: founder and of the fourteen to twenty two thousand creative
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: agencies in the United States, only one percent are founded
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: by women, despite fun fact sixty percent of employees identifying
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: as women.
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: Isn't that interesting? I did not know that part.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: Well, here you are, so ma'am, talk to me about
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: your creative agency and why it was important for you
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: to go in that path.
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think you know. When we had first
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: founded rome like there was you know, you hop on
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: these calls, you're in these you meet all these other
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: creatives and like oftentimes you're surrounded by a bunch of
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: men or like pretty much a lot of the creative
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: Like everyone looks looks the same. Yeah, you know, and
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: so I think as I started understanding the industry and
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: the just the like the space and how I you
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: know what that picture looked like, I wanted to change,
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: you know. We wanted to that narrative and also create
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: a space that enables other creatives and other diverse storytellers,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: other women, other people in general to who might not
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: necessarily always have the platform to tell stories and do
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: so with a really intentional, intentional light kind of what
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: we were talking earlier about, like the integrity of storytelling
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: and the integrity of creatives. Like, we wanted to create
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: a space that was doing that, so the same feeling
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: of like making and ensuring that the subjects and the
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: people that we're working with are being represented correctly, and
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: like also creating a space and working with creatives who
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: can tell those stories because they've had those experiences themselves.
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it about the female gaze that you
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: feel like enables and empowers that.
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: I think because we've had our own experiences, right like you've,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: I mean I can speak from it. There's been points
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: in the industry where you have to be strategic, right,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: like you have to navigate things specific way just because
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: you're a woman, which sucks sometimes, right, Like, it can
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: be frustrating. But I also think that like when we're
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: able to work with other women, there's this like level
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: of transparency and support and just yeah, this honesty yeah
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: with each other.
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: I think it honestly.
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes when we work with a woman
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: and everything just everything smooth sailing.
• 58:22
  Speaker 4: Let's just say that, yeah, an open dialogue.
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: And it's so funny because there might be someone that
• 58:28
  Speaker 3: steps into the picture and they say, well, that feels
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: like a lot of feelings, Like this feels like a
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: very emotional situation. When someone walks into a room of
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: women creatives and says like, there's a lot of feelings
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: in here. I'm like, you can step outside.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, well, it's also just like I find
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: when a job comes up, you get an email and
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: everything's in the email. It's like, this is the project,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: this is the budget, this is you're not picking you're
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: not like, hey, can you also answer this question right?
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: There's just a level of efficiency. Sometimes I love it,
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: and I'm not saying like I've also worked with men
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: who are who are incredible and they've also been but
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: there it does seem to be this like you know,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: honestly like no bullshit sometimes where it's just like it's
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: on it it's effective and if it doesn't, you know,
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: the communication is there and if it's not aligned, then
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: there's no there's no awkwardness or animosity.
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: Learnings from the first few years of voting realm.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: Take care, Like in order to run a business, you
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: have to take care of yourself first. Communication is incredibly important.
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: Relationships are very, very valuable Sometimes. I think those interpersonal
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: relationships within like who you're working with, are so so valuable,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: like even over client relationships, because that's what ends up
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: creating a space that allows for just like a space
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: where you want to you feel supported and you feel
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: like you can actually be creative.
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so important.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: What do you want people all to walk away from
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: the documentary seeing in you?
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: It's funny.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: I think at first I was like, I don't want
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: them to see me any I don't want them to
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: see me differently. Like I think that it's funny because
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: the people who have seen the film who know me,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: they're like, it's really refreshing because they just they're like,
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: it's so you like even like the little quirky thing,
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: like I'm kind of I'm a silly person at points,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: Like I'm yes, my work can be serious, but I'm
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: also kind of quirky and weird and sometimes chaotic. But
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: I think that for the people who know me, I
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 1: hope that they just they just see me and they
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: see the person that they've interacted with in real time,
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: because I think it's especially now where everything is.
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: Digital and online.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Like I always hope that the way that people interact
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: with me or see me in my presence even and
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: maybe in the film, is the same that they see
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: me in real life.
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: And for the people that don't know you.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: I hope that they feel a way that if they
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: ever do meet me or have an opportunity to that
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: they feel comfortable and safe enough to be able to
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: open up and share a little bit about themselves.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: So special so that when you look in the mirror, Ayisha,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: what is it that you see looking back at you?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: Aside from me wanting to get my bangs cut because
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: my hair's getting too long. You know, lately, I feel
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: like I've just been I've really just been like trying
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: to tend to my younger self.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: Like I think that again, this idea of being gentler
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: on myself.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 4: Again.
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: I carry a lot of like expectations at points for
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: who I want to be or need to be in
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: a sense, or think I need to be. And I
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: think when I especially lately, I just feel like I'm
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: very and I think part of it is like after
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: I turned thirty, I started like reflecting. I think I'm
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 1: just looking at myself and at points I'm like, you're good,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: It's all good. You've built the foundation, you have, your people,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: like you are where you need to be, and just
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: being grateful. I've been like carrying this idea of gratefulness,
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: like in the past few weeks, particularly where I just
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: like I've been like finishing runs just again, like feeling
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: emotional about like how fortunate, how Like yeah, I might
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: not have had like the easiest upbringing, but like I
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: also had because of that, I had so many people
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: show up for me, and I still continue to have
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: people show up for me, and I don't think that's
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: going away. And it's like, how fortunate am I that
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: I have this found family of people who are constantly
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: rooting for me and constantly like people that I can
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: cheer and support on.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 4: It's so true.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: I mean when you think about going through what you
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: went through adoption and foster, et cetera, to now be
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: able to look around from the perspective of look at
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: everything that I do have, Yeah, it's beautiful.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: I think it's like, I don't think of it as
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: what I'm missing.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: I just think of abundance like I think abundance is
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: a thing that I am so lucky that I get
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: to have.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really awesome when you right now think about
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: the hurdle moment of feeling so isolated in your own
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: home and feeling so.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 4: Unknowingly different than.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: Everybody else, when you realize that your normal wasn't necessarily normal,
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: when you took to running and were able to get
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: outside and find freedom for the very first time. When
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: you look back on that time in your life now,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: knowing what you know now, what would you tell your
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: younger self going through that hurdle moment.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: It's so funny because I feel like my therapist, and
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: I have gone through that exact moment. Yeah, so many
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: times I have walked through This sounds corny, but I've
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: like basically, like I just have this memory of like.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: Basically being stuck on this couch.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: Like I would get home from school and I would
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: have to sit on this couch for like hours and
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: hours and like ask to go to the bathroom and
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: like get to all these things. And I just I
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 1: think back on that moment to my younger self, and
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: I've had I've done this, you know, countless times in therapy,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: but I've just when I think back on it, I
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: actually visualize my older self, myself now going in that
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 1: room and taking my like twelve year old, thirteen year
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: old self, grabbing her by the hand.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 2: And just walking her outside.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like I've you know, I've played that scene
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: in my head so many times, and I feel so
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: grateful that I'm in the place now where I can
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: like actually tend to her.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: And to have that awareness now that you have the
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: opportunity to get up even when it might not feel
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: that way, right, Yeah, it's it's a choice, and understandably,
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: as a young girl, you did not feel like you
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: had the choice.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know that's the thing like as a child,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: you don't like you don't exactly your child.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: So yeah, to be able to have the you know,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: the framework, the strength, the courage and also just the
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: actual understanding of myself and what I what my needs
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: are now to then go and think back of younger.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 4: Ayisha, Yeah, could you know girl?
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: Doing it well.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: I'm so happy that we were able to sit down
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: here today.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: For those that aren't following along with you, Jess yet,
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 3: give us the info work?
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 4: Can they keep up with you online?
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: So a lot of my work is shared on Instagram
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: AI dot shoots. This was before AI was a thing.
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: It's the spelling of my name, but AI dot shoots.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: You know. You can also go on Rome Creative Studio.
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: But yeah, that's probably the best way to get in
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: touch with me. And I think you can find my
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: email through something online.
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 3: There's something just Googler is basically what you're saying. We're
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 3: at Emily Body and at Hurdle Podcast. Another Hurdle Conquered.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.