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Oliver Curtis vents after Firmus fail · The Front

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: From The Australian, here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It's Monday, October 12, 2026. Australia's missed a big opportunity.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: That's the accusation from a disappointed impresario, Oliver Curtis, who
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: in a decade went from convicted insider trading criminal to
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: data centre billionaire. Today, a wild few days in the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: life of firmus.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Oh, this is like just about the biggest thing that
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: I've seen in business for a decade or more. It's
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: almost as big as the Telstra float, which is like
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: the late 90s, right? We're talking that's, you know, what,
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: 30 years ago.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: This is The Australian's John Stenzelt. He edits The List,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Australia's richest 250.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: It's a company that is purporting to be worth pretty
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: much $ 44 billion when it floats, a planned float, at
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: the ASX at the end of next week.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: So, This is huge.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: This is bigger than companies like Coles and all these
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: other long-established brands. If they get that number away, and
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: it seems to be the case at the moment, it's
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: going to be the biggest thing that we have seen
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: for a long, long time for something that is still
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: so new and fledgling. It's quite incredible in many, many ways.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: This was supposed to be a thrilling week for Firmus
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Technologies and everyone who believes in Australia's AI data centre future.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I spoke to John late last week about Firmus, the
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: company jointly founded by Oliver Curtis, his cousin Tim Rosenfield
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and Jonathan Levy, to build data centres around the Asia-Pacific.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Firmus has big dreams, but not a lot of progress yet.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: They've got two data centres operational in Singapore and Victoria,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: seven more under contract, including in Tasmania, and four more
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: in the planning. they've got a close strategic relationship with
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: hot Californian chipmaker NVIDIA. It all looked so promising. They
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: were putting the finishing touches on the investor prospectus and
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: the talk was of a healthy $ 11 share price.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is going to be the most closely
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: watched thing for a long, long time because, yeah, there's
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: some big super funds that have said, you know, we
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: don't believe this story. There's some other people who have
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: come out and said these valuations are just crazy. But
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: there's so many fund managers and a lot of fees,
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  Speaker 2: about $ 215 million worth of fees to the people that
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: are running the float on behalf of firms that are
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: saying that, no, this is going to be the greatest
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: thing ever.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: On Thursday afternoon, The Australian's data room editor, Bridget Carter,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: broke a big yarn. Investors had gone cold. They thought
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: $ 11 was a gross overvaluation. And then it was dead.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: AI data centre company Firmus has confirmed it will withdraw
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: its application to list on the ASX, scrapping what was
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: set to be one of Australia's biggest share market floats.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Well, it's Sunday afternoon. We're back with John because a
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: lot has happened over the weekend. John, this was supposed
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: to go off like a rocket. Instead, it seems to
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: have gone off like a bucket of prawns in the sun.
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  Speaker 1: What went wrong?
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  Speaker 2: Look, I mean, it's one of the most incredible, roughly
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: 72 hours that I've seen in Australian business for a long, long, long,
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: long time. It probably shows you how old I am
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: when I've seen a few of these things in my time. Basically,
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: the $ 44 billion dream collapsed.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: It unraveled pretty quickly.
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  Speaker 2: It was pretty much a day when investors in the
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: US and also here in Australia indicated that they didn't
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: think Firmus was worth that much. They didn't want to
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: buy into an IPO that was going to be worth
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: that much. They said no. The bankers tried to get
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: it away at a smaller price. Even that didn't work,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: and they pulled it on Friday morning. And here we
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  Speaker 2: are sort of a couple of days later, and Oliver
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Curtis has flown.
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  Speaker 3: Back to Singapore.
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  Speaker 2: With his tail in between his legs a little bit,
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  Speaker 2: but also there's a note of defiance there too.
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  Speaker 3: You know, he's saying it's not over. I think when's
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: the opportunity for Australia to be Britain?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I totally understand the way this
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  Speaker 2: has played out.
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  Speaker 3: I'm sold if I can come and we have a
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  Speaker 3: normal league with people. I'm in for the change, mate.
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  Speaker 2: They're pivoting a bit, as we revealed in the paper
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  Speaker 2: on the weekend, that they want to look at the
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  Speaker 2: US listing now, the NASDAQ. That'll bring a whole bunch
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: of different complications, but they're claiming they're going to keep going.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: They're going to need to raise some more money privately
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: to do so. This firm's story isn't over just quite yet,
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: according to Ollie.
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  Speaker 1: So on Thursday and Friday, we started hearing, and our
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: colleague Bridget Carter and you and Perry Williams and other
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: people at The Australian started reporting that really big institutional
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: investors were walking away in a big way from the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: firm's float. Is that what actually brought it down that
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: there just weren't going to be enough super funds and big,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: significant investments, and it wasn't going to be enough to
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  Speaker 1: have the mum and dads?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, the pricing was certainly that issue. Basically, the bankers
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: went from saying, look, this is going to get away, people.
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  Speaker 2: You know, you want to get in quick. So all
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, it's not getting away. They're having issues raising.
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  Speaker 2: There was a couple of key people, I think, or
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: a couple of key funds in America that really balked
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: a little bit at the price, right? So what we've
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: been told, there were some key ones in particular that
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: was spoken for a few hundred million dollars that said, no, actually,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: we think that this narrative isn't quite there yet. Now, look,
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: some of that's because of some of the news that's
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: coming out in America about some valuations like open AI
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  Speaker 2: not being quite as good as what they thought or
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: revenue that's coming in. So that's probably dampened down a
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: little bit the general AI story. And then also the unenthusiasm,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: I suppose, for what was happening locally and the news
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  Speaker 2: that was unfolding about Firmus not quite being, well, look,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: you don't want to say loose with the truth, but
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: what you want to say is that there was a
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: few things that the market didn't know about that quickly
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: came out.
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  Speaker 3: That they hadn't told people about.
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  Speaker 2: And one of them was this deal that they had
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: with CDC in Australia. A year ago, I remember speaking
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: to Oliver for the first time where they talked about
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: this $ 73 billion project, Southgate, that they were going to do,
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  Speaker 2: where they're going to roll out a series of their
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: AI factories around Australia with a company called CDC, Canberra
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  Speaker 2: Data Centers, as its old name was. It turns out
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: that only one of them got done. The deal was
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: quietly terminated a few months ago. They didn't tell anyone
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  Speaker 2: about it. So The question marks arose about what was
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: happening with Firmus and also like what else don't people
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  Speaker 2: know about it. So people got the jitters. And once
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: you get a bit of momentum swinging against you, then
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: people get out pretty quickly.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: And that's what happened.
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  Speaker 1: You and one of our colleagues, Deanne Septiari, who works
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: in Indonesia, reported on Saturday that there were really questions,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: I suppose, from locals around an Indonesian data centre that
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: Firmus is intending to build or has built. What's the
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: story there?
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: The story is there that Thermos has got to deal
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: with a company called Day One, which is Singapore domicile,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: that they're building a big data center, basically building the
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: shed there. And the Thermos assets, the NVIDIA chips that
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: they've got to deal with NVIDIA for, we're going to
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  Speaker 2: go into there. Now, Batam, this Indonesian island, is not
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  Speaker 2: too far away from Singapore.
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  Speaker 3: It's across the water.
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  Speaker 2: And there's great cable connections to Singapore and elsewhere around
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: the world. So it's become this epicenter of the AI
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  Speaker 2: data center dream for a lot of companies around including Firmus. Now,
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  Speaker 2: Firmus was intending with day one to build the biggest
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  Speaker 2: data center on the island. And there's something like 20
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  Speaker 2: data centers being planned for this place where there's actually
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: a massive water shortage. So Deanne went there, had a look,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: and basically people are going without water, fresh water that's
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: having to be pumped in via trucks. Meanwhile, the data
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: centers are being built at.
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  Speaker 3: A very, very rapid rate.
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  Speaker 2: And the local residents have questioned this and going, look,
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  Speaker 2: you're doing this while we're struggling to even get drinking water.
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  Speaker 2: So what is going on here? So this is the
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  Speaker 2: whole community aspect of the data centers that's unfolding around
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  Speaker 2: the world.
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  Speaker 3: We've seen protests in the US.
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  Speaker 2: We've seen locally with Firmus, there's been a lot of
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  Speaker 2: objections in Tasmania and in Batam, which is like this
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  Speaker 2: amazing place where there's so many of these things being
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  Speaker 2: built or planned. The locals are very, very unhappy about it.
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  Speaker 2: So data center companies, AI factory companies like Firmus have
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: got a very big community problem that's unfolding at the moment.
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  Speaker 2: no one quite has the answers for what's happening. And yeah, absolutely,
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  Speaker 2: Firmus is one of those companies that has to deal
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  Speaker 2: with these questions.
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  Speaker 1: Let's talk about Oliver Curtis. You reported with our colleague
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  Speaker 1: Perry Williams on Sunday that he's flying around in a PJ,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: a Bombardier Global. The kids are in boarding schools in Switzerland.
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  Speaker 1: His wife, Roxy Jacenko, has just offloaded her Sydney headquarters
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  Speaker 1: of her PR company for what seems like a pretty
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: significant discount. What do you think is going on with
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  Speaker 1: the family? Do they have any cash? And how much
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: is Oliver worth now?
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  Speaker 2: Well, look, when you're already a paper billionaire as Oliver was,
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  Speaker 2: and this was before the valuations that were coming in
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  Speaker 2: at this $ 11 mark that they were trying to get
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  Speaker 2: away last week, like, you know, when you've got a
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  Speaker 2: big deal that's about to come, well, what do you need?
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  Speaker 2: What are you going to look at? When you're crisscrossing
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: the world, you're looking at a private jet. So it
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  Speaker 2: came as no surprise, I suppose, in a way, like
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  Speaker 2: I know so many billionaires that have private jets, Claire,
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: as you know, that Ollie was investing in one too.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: So yeah, we managed to find out that, I suppose
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  Speaker 2: to no one's surprise in that way, that it turns
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: out that there's a jet that he's been flying on very,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: very regularly in the last few months. It's a jet
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  Speaker 2: that's changed hands in April, got a new paint job.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: It's been flying someone, clearly, I would say Oliver from
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: places like Nice, which is the airport of choice for
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: the people on the Mediterranean down near Monaco, when you
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: want to get off your huge boat and get onto
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: your private jet. That flew them back to Singapore in August.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: It's flown to Melbourne. It's flown to Launceston. It's flown
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: to Sydney. It's flown back to Europe for when investors
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: were talking to Firmus on the roadshow to drum on Maitris. Yeah, look,
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's one of those things, right? He's not
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: the first billionaire to have a private jet, but it
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: came at a pretty delicate time. And clearly, there's no
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: payday coming from the float at the moment. So let's
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: just say they're pretty expensive things to run, you know,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: $ 6, 000 to $ 8, 000 an hour for the fuel.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: And as we all know, petrol ain't getting any cheaper.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: When he spoke in Singapore over the weekend, Oliver Curtis
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: was defiant about Firmus, but also defiant about himself. That's
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: really interesting, isn't it, John? This has seemed like a
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: great redemption story. You know, someone who made, as he says,
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: a stupid mistake when he was in his 20s, ended
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: up in jail for insider trading. then kind of came
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: good and has shown himself to have an entrepreneurial flair.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Now he seems to be blaming Australians for viewing him
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: as a tall poppy. What do you think about that?
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: This is one of the narratives that's starting to emerge
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: from inside the firm's camp and the bankers. Some of
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: this they've blamed on the media for the negative publicity
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: around what happened, what unfolded last week. I mean, you know,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: It wasn't the media that kept secret the fact that
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: one of the AI factories that Firmus has here in
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Australia leaked when one of their big deals was that
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: we could do things with a lot less water. The
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: media did report about the escrow provisions that show that
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: a lot of Firmus shareholders could sell their stock on
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: day one, which would have been a bit of a
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: red flag for some other people. So look, these are
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: things that are unfolding and the media is reporting on it.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: So one of the things that Ollie said was that
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Australia takes a bit of a dim view on entrepreneurs
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: that take a risk.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: We're in a fantastic position. We're fantastic.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Fundamentally, we're building out a global, hopefully, what can be
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: looked back in time, global.
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: Australian tech success story.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: And Australia needs to get behind that or turn around and, you.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Know, force more and more people, entrepreneurs and companies offshore.
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: And ultimately....
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: This is the sort of tall poppy syndrome that's coming out.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I think actually that Firmus got a hell of a
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: lot of really, really good publicity this year and then
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: the tide started to go against them. They've lashed out
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: a little bit against people like the media and against
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: non-believers in the big Firmus story. I think it's up
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: to them to prove what they're doing rather than for
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: everyone just to take their word for it.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: He's saying it's not the end and here we'll rise again.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: What are you thinking? What actually happens to the float
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: now and the companies?
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Now, look, it's important to know that the paper valuation
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: that firm has had, you know, a month or so ago,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: you know, Oli is a billionaire, according to that state.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Now, what happens next? Well, let's see.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: So what they have to do is they have to
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: raise money to sort of, you know, keep funding the
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: big build out that they want to do and to
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: also fund the debt that they need to pay off
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: to build these data centers in Indonesia, Malaysia and all
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: these other places they've got planned. So what will end
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: up happening? almost certainly, is that they have to raise money. Now,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: the people they'll be raising money for will insist on
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: a bigger share holding in Firmus than they may.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: Have got previously.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: That'll dilute Curtis's stake, his family's stake, and other investors
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: who are in there already. So I think his wealth
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: will go down on paper. They're wanting to float on
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: the Nasdaq in 12 months' time. That's a long time away, Claire.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, 12 months ago, no one had heard of Firmus.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: So look how far it's come in that time. In
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: the next 12 months, they've got a lot to prove. Now,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: If it goes the way that they're saying and if
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: they can execute on what they're trying to do, build
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: out that big data centre in Indonesia, for example, do
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: stuff around Australia like Tasmania, get planning approval in South
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Australia and get going on what they plan to do
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: in New South Wales, well, then that looks like a very,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: very successful float potentially. But there's still a lot of
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: blue sky there and it remains to be seen what
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: will happen.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: John Stenzel, thank you very much.
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: Thanks, Clare.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: John Stenzel is the editor of The List, Australia's richest 250.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: This story's changing fast, so you can get the latest
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: from John and the nation's best business reporters anytime at theaustralian.com.au.