Latest / MUBI Podcast / Sofia Coppola — PRISCILLA, from source to soundtrack

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Sofia Coppola — PRISCILLA, from source to soundtrack · MUBI Podcast

• 0:00
  Heads up, this episode includes adult themes and spoilers.
• 0:07
  Do you remember the first film that caught your attention?
• 0:10
  I grew up, you know my dad was always showing movies.
• 0:13
  So I watched lots of films from especially all over the world, which I feel lucky to be exposed to.
• 0:19
  I still don't remember the first movie, but I remember seeing Bugsy Malone as a kid.
• 0:24
  The gangster movie with kids?
• 0:26
  Yes, and I thought that was the best thing ever.
• 0:29
  Yeah, with Jodie Foster and all these kid gangsters.
• 0:31
  - Alan Parker movie, I think.
• 0:31
  - Alan Parker, yeah.
• 0:34
  So that was one of my favorite movies as a kid. But I...
• 0:36
  I remember seeingBreathless as a teenager and really loving it and that always is still a reference for me in how I shoot things.
• 0:44
  Oh man, our first episode this season was about Jean Seberg's style in Breathless.
• 0:48
  - Oh cool.
• 0:48
  - So if I may ask you, what about her in that film do you remember?
• 0:52
  Because I feel like her style somehow resonates in some of your movies.
• 0:55
  She's just so, I know iconic is overused, but just her haircut and the and the way she dresses is the ultimate American girl in Paris that is referenced a lot, and she just has a cool ease about her.
• 1:08
  And yeah, I mean, sure, I'm sure I'm drawn to movies where the women are shown with dignity and strength about them, that appeals to me.
• 1:21
  That of course, is Sofia Coppola.
• 1:23
  And true to form her new movie, Priscilla is all about a woman finding her strength.
• 1:30
  It's the story of Priscilla Beaulieu who we first meet as a lonely teen living with her military family in Germany circa 1959.
• 1:37
  Til one day at a diner she's approached by a guy in uniform.
• 1:41
  Do you like Elvis Presley?Of course, who doesn't?I'm a friend of his... He invites her to a party with Elvis, the rock star she'll end up marrying.
• 1:51
  Liberating herself from one kind of claustrophobic life and landing herself in another.
• 1:59
  I'm Rico Gagliano and welcome back to the MUBI Podcast.
• 2:02
  MUBI's the streaming service that champions great cinema.
• 2:05
  On this show, we tell you the stories behind great cinema.
• 2:08
  Last episode, we wrapped up our season about film and fashion with a look at Sofia Coppola's use of costumes across all her films.
• 2:14
  If you haven't do check it out, it features everyone from her brother Roman to her costume designers, past and present.
• 2:20
  Today though, a special kind of bonus episode, it's just me and Coppola talking about one movie, Priscilla, her biopic about Priscilla Presley.
• 2:29
  It debuts on MUBI this week, March first in the UK, Germany and many other countries.
• 2:34
  Last episode, we touched on the movie's costume design.
• 2:36
  So this time around you'll hear us dive into basically everything else about Priscilla, from casting to its Elvis-less soundtrack.
• 2:43
  First though I asked her to tell me about the first time she came across her source material.
• 2:51
  I don't know how I ended up with it, but for years, for a decade I've had a copy of Elvis and Me, like a paperback of Priscilla's book.
• 2:59
  And I think it was just like, oh, it seemed like a kind of fun juicy vacation read. And I just-- I've just had it around for a while and I've kind of looked at parts of it, but then a few years ago I really read it through and I was really surprised at how, what she reveals in it and how relatable it is.
• 3:19
  And I was just kind of really stunned.
• 3:21
  I had no idea that she was living at Graceland when she was going to high school. And yeah, it was just pretty startling to read about what her experience was like because she's part of this, one of the most famous couples in America.
• 3:34
  And we know her image so well, but I realize we know so little really about her and what her life was like.
• 3:40
  Yeah, how can that be the case when we have her book?
• 3:44
  And it's been around for decades?
• 3:46
  How do we not know these things?
• 3:48
  I know, her book came out, I guess I should know the year, it came out in the eighties and it was kind of forgotten and people were bringing up things even like the Elvis Presley estate, they wouldn't get behind it.
• 3:59
  And I was like, all this information has been out for so long.
• 4:02
  I didn't think it was, you know, a surprise.
• 4:04
  But, yeah, I guess no one was paying attention and um...
• 4:07
  I just thought it was really surprising and, that her story was, said so much about the roles of women at that time and, and the idea of kind of the...
• 4:16
  fantasy of the American Dream and this, you know, kind of Cinderella fairy tale aspect, but the reality of it was so, so different.
• 4:25
  Do you remember the first detail that struck you where you were just like, whoa, this is not what I expected.
• 4:30
  I think it was that she was in high school.
• 4:32
  Like how did her parents let her finish high school while she was living at Graceland?
• 4:36
  And just like there's... she talks about when she first visits him, he-- She takes like a sleeping pill and doesn't wake up until three days later.
• 4:44
  And you're like, what? Like how...
• 4:46
  And I kind of thought of this kind of weird Alice in Wonderland experience.
• 4:50
  I feel like it's...
• 4:51
  it's hard enough to grow up and go through all those kind of firsts and moments that as you're trying to find your identity and then to be going through all these stages.
• 5:00
  But in such an unusual setting really struck me, because it was strangely relatable because she talks about her first kiss and becoming a mother and ways that are very relatable.
• 5:11
  But then it's just so far out that it's in Graceland with Elvis, you know.
• 5:14
  When you met her, when you met Priscilla, what did you expect, versus the reality?
• 5:19
  Yeah, it was interesting because I never worked on something where the subject was alive that I could speak to and participate in the project.
• 5:25
  So I felt so lucky that I could, as I'm reading it, I could ask more about things and what were you thinking and what was really happening here?
• 5:33
  So that way it was really, really an advantage.
• 5:35
  But then at the same time I had a responsibility I felt to, not only to how I wanted to tell the story but also to tell it in a way that she would feel good about and respected her.
• 5:46
  Yeah, it was interesting. She seemed like how I imagined, she's very delicate and soft spoken and feminine and gracious.
• 5:55
  But then she definitely has a strength about her that comes through and I was struck with that in her story that she had the strength to leave, to leave him at the end.
• 6:04
  - We'll get to that for sure.
• 6:04
  - Yeah.
• 6:06
  Was there a moment where you would have done it differently and she was like, "No, this is more accurate." No, I was, I felt like her story is written in a really vivid way and with great detail.
• 6:16
  So it gave a clear point of view of how to make it.
• 6:18
  But I think just balancing-- I think she's, I think she's still protective of him.
• 6:22
  It was really important to her that it's a love story and that she didn't want his, uh, his drug use to be-- to overshadow it and become a story about that, which I understood. But I thought like, it is Elvis, we know, it's no secret that he, you know, had a dependency and I thought it was interesting to learn that that started from his night drills in Germany.
• 6:44
  Yeah, there's the scene, yeah the first time we see him deal with drugs, he says it was because it was something that the army gave him to keep him up at night.
• 6:50
  Yeah, which I thought was really interesting where that came from and then it just, you know, escalated from touring and, you know, the entertainment world.
• 6:57
  This actually leads to question I was going to get to later, but let's get into it.
• 7:01
  It's like there is, you know, I had the same reaction you did. How could parents allow this to happen?
• 7:08
  But there's this sense in the movie that it's not even just the parents, there's like an entire system that kind of is full of pathologies that allows this to happen.
• 7:17
  You know, starting, you just mentioned one of them, you know, like the army giving drugs to young men.
• 7:22
  - You know what I mean?
• 7:22
  - Yeah...
• 7:23
  How much was that on your mind?
• 7:24
  Well, I think also just the fact that I think the parents really were protective, they were protective parents.
• 7:30
  They weren't the kind of parents that were like trying to push their daughter into Hollywood, But I think he was so famous and he was so charming that he, they were won over by him and did something that a parent wouldn't do, because it was Elvis and they were charmed by him and he came in full uniform and was a gentleman and his father was chaperoning.
• 7:53
  So it seemed like it should be ok.
• 7:55
  But also she really pushed the story forward and what she wanted.
• 7:59
  Like she was really determined and she was going to go there without them if they, if they didn't.
• 8:03
  So I know that feeling of I have teenage daughters and when they, when they put their mind to something they're pretty stubborn about and determined. So I like that she was never a victim.
• 8:14
  She was always kind of making it happen the way, I know that kind of feeling when you're young that you find any way to do something.
• 8:20
  Yeah, but shouldn't there I mean, but it seems like there were no guard rails anywhere in society to go wait a second, really?
• 8:27
  Yeah. No, I mean, I think in the South girls got married really young and so it was really a different time for that. But, yeah, no it was pretty shocking that this went on and it was kind of everyone looks the other way or it seemed normal.
• 8:39
  Yeah. There's actually a moment I think it's the second time that they hang out.
• 8:43
  Can you describe that sequence to us when she goes back for the second time.
• 8:47
  The second time.
• 8:48
  Yeah, she's 14 and in this world of Elvis and all his friends,This is my buddy Joe from back home.- Hey, how you doing?
• 8:55
  - Nice to meet you. And there were a lot of like older kind of groupie girls around and she felt out of place and was really taken with it. He focused so much attention on her.
• 9:06
  Would you come up to my room?You don't have to be scared, baby,I'd never do anything to harm you. I just, I don't know--I really like talking to you. And then they, it's the first time they're alone and it turns out to be her first kiss, which in the film I wanted to make, you know, a big epic moment because it is, it's her first kiss and it's with Elvis Presley.
• 9:28
  I know it's like you totally understand from her point of view.
• 9:31
  It's Elvis freaking Presley, you do whatever.
• 9:34
  And when we shot that scene with her first alone together, it was hard to get the tone right so that he didn't seem lecherous and that it was through her point of view, which was romantic.
• 9:44
  I've been so homesick.I know.Me too. And she talked about how she never told anyone at school that she saw Elvis or kissed him.
• 9:57
  And so she has to hold that in and I love how she walks down the hall- with all that in her mind.
• 10:01
  - Right after that scene.
• 10:03
  - Yeah.
• 10:03
  - Yeah.
• 10:05
  She's walking down the school hallway and it's like I kissed Elvis.
• 10:08
  Replaying it in her mind.
• 10:10
  Tell me about shooting that first kiss.
• 10:13
  I know that you've said that it was kind of a dicey moment for you.
• 10:15
  Yeah, I didn't realize until-- because when you write it on paper, it's one thing.
• 10:18
  But when you see them together and she looks so young, it's becomes another thing. And it was, yeah, it was hard to see and like how to make it feel romantic when he's so much older. But it helped, I couldn't have done it if the actress was really that age.
• 10:32
  The fact that the actress Cailee was the same age as the actor who played Elvis made it easier.
• 10:38
  But yeah, we had to find that tone so that it came off in the way that she tells her story as this epic romantic moment.
• 10:45
  How did you find that tone?
• 10:46
  Like, what did you do technically to make that work?
• 10:49
  I mean, I think the way we shot it, we didn't want him to be, like, looming too big over her.
• 10:53
  And then it was, it was just, it was just doing the scene a few times and like tweaking it to, to kind of soften it.
• 11:00
  I can't remember, I remember some takes, it felt like more threatening and we had to kind of do it a few times to kind of get that tone right.
• 11:08
  That's right I'm thinking about the framing of that shot.
• 11:10
  They're both sitting and they're like actually on the same level, even though Jacob Elordi who plays Elvis's Towers over her for the rest of the film.
• 11:17
  Yeah, he's like a foot taller than her or more.
• 11:20
  Yeah, she's 5'1" and he's 6'4" or something. So that was always a...
• 11:23
  a struggle to get them in the frame, but it does make him imposing and just kind of magnifies the kind of the power dynamic.
• 11:30
  Was that part of the reason that you cast him? Was that...
• 11:33
  no, that was just a coincidence.
• 11:36
  I remember when I first met him, I was surprised with how tall he was.
• 11:38
  I had to look up to talk to him. But um...
• 11:41
  no, it was actually like, it just turned out that way.
• 11:44
  And then we were like, oh man, how are we going to fit him in the frame?
• 11:47
  And we were building platforms for her, but then I hoped that it would just emphasize the power dynamic between them a little.
• 11:54
  It absolutely does. I remember coming out of the theater after watching for the first time and it's something everybody remarked upon.
• 12:00
  It's funny because it wasn't intentional, but I'm glad it comes off.
• 12:03
  - It helps.
• 12:03
  - It's really arresting.
• 12:05
  I wanted to ask you, we're still kind of talking about the beginning of the film in a lot of ways.
• 12:10
  But I can't help but notice because I was very proud of myself as a film studies guy for noticing this.
• 12:16
  The opening shot is a close up on Priscilla's feet with her toenails painted on a shag carpet.
• 12:22
  And the second time I watched it suddenly struck me.
• 12:24
  Is this a reference to the opening of- Lolita, Kubrick's Lolita?
• 12:26
  - Oh, that's so funny.
• 12:30
  I did think about it but then I kind of forgot about it and did that shot.
• 12:34
  But yeah, I think, no, you're totally right. I mean...
• 12:37
  I loved that movie when I was young and I thought about the opening of Lolita about how the music is like swelling and dramatic and that, that shot, and then I kind of forgot about it.
• 12:47
  And then I wanted to start with her feet sinking in the shag carpet and what it felt like to be at Graceland.
• 12:53
  So, no, you're totally right. But I forgot about that.
• 12:56
  So it was an impetus, but you hadn't realized it until just now.
• 12:59
  Yeah, but I had talked about it with my husband when we were talking about the music. And um, and yeah, Lolita made such a big impact on me when I saw it.
• 13:07
  So it's like in my mind as part of my film vocabulary,- I mean...
• 13:10
  - But you're the first person to see that points! Film geek points.
• 13:16
  But that does, it makes me think that this is, even though I know that you're saying that you really wanted to respect, you know, the romance of this that does suggest the Lolita paradigm.
• 13:27
  A looming one like it implies a point of view.
• 13:30
  Yeah, I mean, just, it is really striking the age difference and I mean, I was trying to stay in her point of view, but there is an aspect that is, you know, looking at it from my point of view, I guess, but I try to just kind of show her experience.
• 13:44
  You're also known for your soundtracks.
• 13:46
  A number of them featuring pop music. This is among those.
• 13:50
  What was the sort of blueprint for selecting the music for this movie?
• 13:55
  Yeah, and she talked about listening to that song Venus by Frankie Avalon was on in the diner when she first met the friend of Elvis that introduced her and, and so that became kind of the starting point. I listened to that a lot.
• 14:08
  Kind of over and over when I was writing the script and then I was talking to my husband Thomas, him and his bandmates of Phoenix to help me put together a compilation of music of that time because I really trust their taste and they're great at finding things that I don't know about.
• 14:23
  And so we just started to kind of like paste together this playlist that we shared of music that we liked from that era or even music from other eras that felt connected to it.
• 14:32
  What is the texture of that song that was kind of, was the blueprint for those who haven't heard the song. What about it is...
• 14:38
  - Venus?
• 14:38
  - Yeah.
• 14:39
  - Can you play a clip? No, it's...
• 14:39
  - I will! Yeah, I don't know-- listen to it because it really becomes like her theme song.
• 14:45
  Venus if you willPlease send a little girl for me to thrillA girl who wants my kisses and my armsA girl with all the charms of youVenus, make her fair And then Phoenix did instrumental versions of it, which I thought worked really well.
• 15:08
  And then, I loved girl groups growing up from that era, like The Ronettes, The Shangri Las and all of that. So that was the music, my favorite kind of music from this era.
• 15:18
  It's really not my era.
• 15:18
  So some of it can sound corny.
• 15:21
  I don't want it to feel likeHappy Days or something.
• 15:24
  - Um, so...
• 15:24
  - A sitcom?
• 15:26
  Yeah, it's just not, it's...
• 15:28
  not my era. I grew up with Elvis Costello- Yeah, the other Elvis.
• 15:31
  - That's my Elvis.
• 15:33
  But yeah. Yeah...
• 15:34
  But I do really love Phil Spector's sound.
• 15:37
  I remember The Ramones recording an album with him.
• 15:40
  - End of the Century.- Yeah.
• 15:42
  So then I thought, oh, let's look at that and then kind of this Phil Spector's sound became kind of a, a link of that kind of big sound and the swelling romance.
• 15:52
  Infamously, you though could not use Elvis songs.
• 15:56
  That you couldn't get the rights to them.
• 15:58
  There was one thing you have mentioned, there was a song that you wanted to use called Pocket Full Of Rainbows.
• 16:04
  It's an Elvis song that I've not heard. Why Pocket Full of Rainbows?
• 16:07
  Why is that the one that you really were hoping for?
• 16:09
  Yeah, Thomas played it for me and I never knew that song and I love that song.
• 16:12
  It's just really sweet and romantic. You should listen to it.
• 16:15
  It's really, I just, it was fun to discover the song that I didn't know of his cause you know, his music is so well known and it just has a really romantic quality and we played it a lot on set.
• 16:26
  - It's a deep cut.
• 16:26
  - Yes.
• 16:28
  Regardless of movies, is there an overall philosophy to your music choices?
• 16:32
  Like I once heard Martin Scorsese had this idea that a song should never have anything lyrically to do with the scene it's in.
• 16:38
  To create this kind of weird tension.
• 16:40
  No, I mean, I love that about his movies and he's probably the most influential person, you know, for me, he's the best at needle drop, so.
• 16:48
  I love how he uses the music to contrast the scene which underlines it even more.
• 16:52
  He's the best at that.
• 16:54
  But, I don't know.
• 16:54
  I think it's just an intuitive thing of what feels right in the moment and what gives you goose bumps or whatever the emotion is of the scene.
• 17:02
  Is there a song that you've got in your back pocket that you've just never found the right movie for yet?
• 17:06
  That's such a good question.
• 17:09
  Music heads everywhere are hanging on this moment.
• 17:12
  Oh, no, I wish I had a good answer.
• 17:14
  No, I can't, I can't think of a song that I've always wanted to use.
• 17:16
  I feel so lucky that I've gotten to use songs that I love that add so much to a scene.
• 17:21
  I was just at, um BFI and they were showing a clip from Somewhere, with The Strokes song.
• 17:25
  That was a demo that gives so much feeling to the scene.
• 17:30
  It adds so much when you have the right song.
• 17:32
  - Yeah, from your movie Somewhere?
• 17:32
  - Yeah.
• 17:34
  Is that your favorite?
• 17:35
  Do you think? if you had to pick a favorite needle drop in your films...
• 17:37
  It's hard to pick a favorite.
• 17:38
  Because I also like The Strokes song in Marie Antoinette when she's running to her bedroom and has a crush, and...
• 17:44
  I guess, yeah, The Strokes really have that feeling.
• 17:47
  I mean, and New Order they're a favorite, so...
• 17:50
  yeah, it's too hard to pick.
• 17:52
  The last tune is Dolly Parton'sI Will Always Love You.
• 17:55
  Tell me about settling on that tune because it is so perfect.
• 17:59
  Yeah, when I was writing the script and I first thought about the ending, I knew I wanted to end the movie with her driving out the gates of Graceland and I wanted to have Dolly Parton'sI Will Always Love You.
• 18:09
  It just felt like it was just, it came in early that, that had to be the ending.
• 18:13
  So I'm really grateful that we got permission to use that song.
• 18:17
  I think Dolly wrote that in the same feeling of still loving someone, but having to move on and I knew how heartbreaking it was for Priscilla, even though it's a happy moment that she's finally liberated and has the strength to leave.
• 18:29
  And also the history of that song that Dolly Parton didn't sell it to Elvis Presley and that she- had the...
• 18:35
  - What?
• 18:36
  Do you know the story behind it? Oh, yeah, there's a story that Elvis wanted to record it, but he, if he recorded it, he wanted to own the song.
• 18:45
  And so she said, no, which was a big deal at that time.
• 18:47
  And she kept the rights to it, which to me added to the feeling of that song about her liberation and strength.
• 18:54
  Yeah, and she's so in the zeitgeist these last few years is the kind of ultimate embodiment of what you're celebrating with that.
• 19:00
  I mean, like she owns everything, you know, she owns herself, she owns her sexuality,- she owns everything.
• 19:05
  - Yeah.
• 19:07
  Last question. So in our last episode we did this look at your whole career and sort of the themes that pop up through a lot of them.
• 19:15
  Do you-- are you aware when you're making a movie that people like me are gonna swoop in and start making comparisons to- previous films?
• 19:22
  - Analyze it?
• 19:24
  I don't think about it.
• 19:24
  I think it would be paralyzing if I thought about it too much.
• 19:28
  Much because I can't be self conscious of every little decision.
• 19:31
  I try to just...
• 19:33
  trust my instincts and do what I'm into and just be in my, my zone.
• 19:38
  And then later I can be more analytical, but I'm kind of in a different part of my brain when I'm making stuff.
• 19:43
  Has there been a moment where you've finished a movie, and you've been like, oh, whoa, wait a minute.
• 19:47
  That's exactly like x film I made two years ago in a different way.
• 19:50
  When I was shooting Priscilla that when we were shooting the bedroom scenes, I was like, oh my God, I've already, I've shot the same exact shot in Marie Antoinette because there were so many scenes of them in bed and him rejecting her.
• 20:00
  And I'm like, oh my God, I'm doing the same shot again. So I'm aware of it sometimes when I'm in the moment. But now it didn't feel repetitive.
• 20:08
  It just feels like now it's part of my vocabulary.
• 20:11
  Or that they're related because they're from the same person, the same source, Sofia Coppola, you can judge for yourself if you feel echoes of Marie Antoinette.
• 20:22
  And her new movie Priscilla starts showing on MUBI Friday March 1st in the UK, Germany and many other countries.
• 20:28
  Check the show notes of this episode for details.
• 20:31
  And that's the MUBI Podcast for this week.
• 20:33
  And next week we get back to the subject of fashion when I talked to Oscar winning director Kevin McDonald about his new documentary,High and Low: John Galiano.
• 20:42
  It's the story of the titular celebrated designer and his very public implosion back in 2011.
• 20:48
  As the viewer, you're trying to figure out who is this person?
• 20:51
  Should I like them? Should I dislike them? Are they telling the truth?
• 20:55
  And that mystery is made even more profound by the fact that John himself doesn't know.
• 20:59
  Follow us wherever you get your podcast, so you don't miss it.
• 21:01
  Also, speaking of Oscar winners, you probably know Lily Gladstone is a frontrunner for Best Actress next week for her role in Martin Scorsese'sKillers of the Flower Moon. Well, we have got a whole program of films streaming now on MUBI that are fueled by Lily Gladstone's stunning performances.
• 21:17
  Head to mubi.com and look for the film, group 'Performers We Love: Lily Gladstone.' Once again, all the info you need is in the show notes and now let's roll credits.
• 21:26
  This episode of the MUBI Podcast was hosted written and edited by me Rico Gagliano.
• 21:31
  Ciara McEniff produced.
• 21:31
  Stephen Colon mastered it.
• 21:34
  Our theme music is by Yuri Suzuki.
• 21:35
  Thanks this week to Rachel Yang, Julia Nowicka David Harper for taping Sofia.
• 21:40
  And as always to Karina Lesser.
• 21:42
  This show is executive produced by me along with Jon Barrenechea, Efe Çakarel, Daniel Kasman and Michael Tacca.
• 21:49
  Thanks for listening. Be safe. And may your Oscar ballot be a winner.