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Dads React To Elon's Vow To Destroy The Woke Mind Virus · The Family Teams Podcast

• 0:00
  I think this is really dangerous when fathers in particular retreat from being attacked by the enemy in some unique way. Hi, welcome to the Family Teams podcast. Our goal here is to help your family become a multi-generational team on mission by providing you with biblically rooted concepts, tools, and rhythms. Your hosts are Jeremy Pryor and Jefferson Bethke, and we can't wait to chat about all things family.
• 0:28
  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the family teams podcast. So we like to try to dive into any kind of issues that I think our unique family teams lens really were, were things are stirring up in the culture where we need to bring this lens to bear. And there was a really fascinating interview that happened yesterday that Jordan Peterson had with Elon Musk. And they covered a lot of kind of similar ground that I think has hit on other interviews, but right towards the very end
• 0:55
  They got into something. I was like, okay, this is different. And I, I, it really is so indicative of where things are right now when it comes to sort of the collision between sort of sexual ethics, fatherhood, kind of Christianity and the way that it's interacting with all of these things. And I, I really want, okay, I want to take a step back and just process this.
• 1:17
  with some dads. And so I'm excited to be joined today by Chris Cirillo, Chris out of Eugene, Oregon. Chris is also the purveyor of mission, mission fit dads, or it's over at now missionfit.co. So Chris is a health coach for high level business leaders, especially fathers. So if you're interested in checking that out, go over to missionfit.co. But yeah, thanks Chris for joining me today. Thanks for having me.
• 1:41
  Yeah. Chris and I got to spend a few days together over at, and you are in Bend, Oregon. This weekend, it was amazing. It was a family sponsored retreat that happens every year where there were over a thousand people.
• 1:58
  It was such an interesting event. So I got to speak there. Chris and Justine came over with their boys. It was awesome. So we got to hang out and I just learned so much. Just like, oh my gosh, what is, talk about a, I mean, these are mostly like large families that live on the West Coast. And I, it was like, it was such a perfect contrast to so much of the chaos that's happening. So it was, it was an amazing experience. This event called Camp Dwight.
• 2:22
  Awesome. And we are also joined by Phil Cottenoir. Phil is up in the Montreal, Canada area, and he helped contribute to various things. He's helping me edit my book on the ruling household, and he contributes to the Gospel Coalition blog up there in Canada. So Phil, thanks for joining us today as well. Good to be here.
• 2:43
  Yeah. All right, guys. So, yeah, we're going to dive into the deep end here. I'm going to play the clip that's on X that happened in this kind of relevant portion and get you guys all caught up if you didn't get a chance to listen to this whole two plus hour interview. But there's a lot going on in this last portion that I want to especially play for you guys.
• 3:06
  A child sterilization is what it should be. No, there's mutilation too. Yeah, they're going to dive right in to this whole conversation around the quote unquote gender affirming care. And then it gets really personal. So I want to play kind of the full scope of the context and then you'll hear where they go from there. Yeah, well, we want to make sure that that amalgam is... Sure, sure, fair enough. It's child mutilation and sterilization.
• 3:32
  Under the guise of gender-affirming care and compassion. Right. Right. I can't... It's evil. I literally can't imagine anything worse than that. Yes, it's evil. I mean, you're taking kids who are obviously often far below the age of consent. Yep. Confused, miserable...
• 3:51
  Yes, the reality is that almost every child goes through some kind of identity crisis. Yeah, it's part of puberty. Exactly, it's just part of growing up. If, so it's very possible for adults to manipulate children into, who are having a natural identity crisis into believing that they are the wrong gender. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And that they need to be the other gender, or they need to be a boy or a boy needs to be a girl.
• 4:20
  you know, and, and that the, and that will solve all their problems. And that will solve their problems. And, and, and then they give them sterilizing drugs, which are called also a misnome of puberty blocker. These are sterilization drugs. So they can never have children again. Yeah. They have double mastectomies. They have their forearms stripped to build non-functioning penises. Yeah. It's macabre. And we have an age of consent for a reason.
• 4:49
  that the reason you can't get say tattoos below age 18 or drink or drive, you know, there's, there's, there's ages at which you can do things because if we allow children to, to, to take permanent actions when they're 10, 12, 14 years old, they, they, they will do things that they subsequently greatly regret. Yes. I've interviewed a couple of people that's done exactly that. And it's right. Damn painful.
• 5:19
  So, so I think you, you, you, you, during. Why are you willing to make this an issue? Do you think? Uh, I mean, it's sort of like the name is the issue. It happened to one of my, my older boys. Okay. And he's going to get into the personal side of this, which I really want to dive into. Now, just, uh, it's interesting. One of the things that they're saying there's, there's, and they, they mentioned this, I
• 5:46
  It's, it's almost difficult. It's difficult to actually describe the level of evil that this represents. And I, I agree like in, in, in a lot of the examples of evil we have, you have like in the Nazis or whatever, you have people hiding what they're doing because they know it's evil. This what's happening, sterilizing children below the age of consent and, and mutilating their bodies is being trumpeted as.
• 6:11
  as sort of the essence of moral superiority or this is considered an act of ultimate compassion and love. That's a different level of evil as they're describing it. It's difficult to understand how...
• 6:28
  incredibly dangerous that is and how strange and, and, and trying to understand the kind of, um, belief system that could make something that is that evil be considered good. And this is why it's so important for us to really get into the details of what's happening here. So, but this is obviously personal for, for Elon and his family. He's gonna describe why here. Where I was, I was essentially tricked into signing documents.
• 6:56
  for one of my older boys, Xavier. This was before I had really any understanding of what was going on. We had COVID going on, so there was a lot of confusion. And I was told, oh, Xavier might commit suicide if he did. That was a lie right from the outset. No reliable clinician ever believed that. There was never any evidence for that.
• 7:15
  And also, if there's a higher suicide rate, the reason is, is because of the underlying depression and anxiety and not because of the gender dysphoria. And every goddamn clinician knows that too. And they're too cowardly to come out and say it. Right. And so that, and then we end up in exactly, when I saw that lie start to propagate, it just made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It's like, I see. So you're telling parents that unless they agree to this radical transformation that their children are going to die. And you think that's moral. And you think that's true.
• 7:45
  That's so, that is so pathological that it's almost incomprehensible. I can't imagine anything worse of, I can't imagine a therapist doing anything worse than that. Or sitting by idly and remaining silent while his colleagues are doing it. It's pathetic. It's, it's incredibly evil. And I agree with you that people that have been promoting this should go to prison.
• 8:05
  It won't stop till that happens. Yeah. It'll just go underground. There's all, puberty blockers are being accessed online by TID all the time through non-medical channels.
• 8:16
  I didn't know about that. That makes sense. But that is terrifying. That even if you make this illegal, if this mind virus continues to propagate, then kids are going to find all kinds of alternative ways to sterilize themselves in pursuit of this identity sort of problem that they're working through. So, yeah, it's not going to stop.
• 8:38
  Okay, so I see. So that's a personal connection. So I was straight into doing this, and it wasn't explained to me that puberty block is actually just sterilization drugs. So anyway, and so I lost my son, essentially. So, you know, they call it deadnaming for a reason. Yeah, all right. All right. So the reason it's called deadnaming is because your son is dead. So my son Xavier is dead, killed by the woke-minded virus.
• 9:06
  I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah. I can't imagine what that would be like. Yeah. So. Yeah. And there's lots of people in that situation now. Right. It's not pretty. And lots of demolished kids. Yes. Yeah. Well, that's a good, that's a good reason to be the final straw. All right. So let's. So I vowed to destroy the mind, the woke mind virus after that. And we're making some progress.
• 9:38
  Join the club. Okay. All right. So there's a lot there. And so there, there's really three layers. I know I want to get into Chris and Phil, whatever this startup for you guys, I'm excited to hear kind of what your thoughts are, but you know, there's the, the sexual ethic conversation and, and how this has infected the culture and trying to understand, you know, what, what is going on there and.
• 10:04
  and how we are really designed to combat that, you know, within the Christian community. Like, what do we have to help us resist this stuff? There's that final vow that a father makes that I think is really significant and I think is really cross-applicable to...
• 10:23
  I think what a lot of fathers need to understand is that, is that you really have, you know, two worlds that you need to understand as a dad, as a protector and a provider and as a patriarch of a family. And that is you raise, you raise the absolute best family you possibly can. But if the enemy does get to one of your kids, then you have a responsibility to take all of your power and attack back. Like that, that needs to be your response. You don't, you don't go quietly.
• 10:49
  into the night as a father. That's not what a dad does. And so I think that the energy that he shows there and his willingness to do anything to destroy this is, is the, the way you combat these horrible trends and movements in our society. You've got to wake up and do something.
• 11:06
  And then I want to talk a little bit about like, he, he makes another statement. We're gonna, I'll, I'll probably play that clip later about being cultural Christian, but, but yeah, there's a lot, a lot going on here. So Chris, I'd love to start with you and then we'll talk to, and get Phil. You love to get your thoughts. So, but yeah, Chris, what did this start for you? Yeah, it was, it's hard not to get choked up watching that. I can't.
• 11:25
  Can't wrap my mind around that as a father and what that situation would be like. And obviously the only information we have, or at least that I have about this circumstance for Elon is like what he shares publicly. And so there's a lot that we don't know. So I want to be really like.
• 11:41
  charitable and empathetic as well to the circumstance. But yeah, I can't help but have a lot of the, the fatherly stuff well up inside of me. You know, there's this like responsibility, responsibility to being educated and informed, you know, like, and how important that is. Like my children are, are depending on me as he called out, there's this,
• 12:04
  age of consent, this age of consent for, for all of these things like drinking and smoking and driving and all this stuff is because of the development of the brain. And I have to take on the realization that my kids until they're 25 years old, they're, they are sub capable to me. And I have a responsibility as a father through at least that age, if not beyond that,
• 12:27
  to guide and direct and shape and inform and coach and train my kids. Yes. And I think about Deuteronomy six and Ephesians six, four, like there's these clear commands of training up a child in the way that he should go. And I don't think it's a perfect solution. I think that there's like evil finds its way in to deceiving. But I think that the, the likelihood of something like this happening
• 12:54
  When a father is informed and when a father is training unto kind of biblical ideologies and principles, I think the likelihood of something like this goes almost extinct in a lot of ways.
• 13:09
  So that came to mind. The other thing was just like the prevalence of counter formation requirements and like social media influence, kids in public school and the influence that there and like all of, I mean, youth groups being the primary vehicle for discipleship and like what kids experience in a youth group with other kids who are involved in other areas of life, like
• 13:33
  There's so many open doors for kids to, to be reached that I've got to be so vigilant as a father to figure out how do I, how do I have counter attacks or counter formation to all of these different things, man. Um,
• 13:51
  And then I think one of the last things is like, man, to your point, the vow, I think, I think the vow just, it has to come very quickly. Like if this, if this situation, I like to speculate, obviously I have no idea exactly how I would respond in this circumstance, but if I'm confronted with your son is going to commit suicide because he's having this identity crisis. And if you don't do this thing to mutilate him, then you're going to lose your son. Then like...
• 14:20
  I pick up my kid, I move out of California, and I go to a state that protects my rights as a father, and I go get help from my son in other ways rooted in prayer.
• 14:32
  I don't hang out and I don't give in to this influence. And again, I don't know what's going on with Elon. I don't know the whole story and I have nothing but compassion for what he's dealing with. But I just think about the fatherly responsibility. And there's a reason why God created fatherhood. He created this role and responsibility and all of the things that fall under that feels like
• 15:01
  Most of this conversation actually just roots back into that topic. Right. Yeah, that's a great point. Yeah, there is. Yeah, we the level of vigilance that's required to fathers today is so intense because of these things, you know, they're coming. And Elon just mentioned also that this last week that he's moving both Twitter and SpaceX out of California because they're,
• 15:25
  The governor Gavin Newsom just signed into law, basically a law in California that says that the teachers do not have to report to their parents. If their children are in the process of transitioning at school. And Elon said, I can't do this to the parents that work for these organizations that I'm leading. And so we're going to have to leave California in order to avoid, you know, that eventuality. So there.
• 15:49
  In the process of moving that in my guess too, I guess I don't know all the details I, you know, because Elon was divorced and I don't know if, you know, Justine Musk had more, you know, custody of Xavier during this whole thing. Because, you know, obviously being having an intact family and actually having leadership in that home will allow you to do Chris to what you're describing. Like, let's get out of here.
• 16:13
  Let's do whatever we have to. There is nothing that, there is no action that is, that is, you know, that is too extreme for me to protect my children from things that are going to destroy them. And, you know, part of, part of what he's describing here, and this is, you know, what we really...
• 16:30
  If we get into some of the roots or possible, you know, obviously a lot of this is speculation, but it's not, Elon's such a public figure. You can, you can really connect a lot of dots. Elon gets so much of his identity from his work, right? And, and I think that one of the things that we're constantly trying to tell dads is that you have to first and foremost be a father. And part of what that does is that your children can only root their identity in their sonship or daughterhood to the extent that you are rooting your identity in your fatherhood or a wife in your, in, in your motherhood.
• 17:00
  In other words, if you're constantly rooting your identity in, in work or in other things, your kids are going to have to basically look for other places to root their identity. And so this identity crisis has a, has a root oftentimes in, in sort of a weak family identity, and, and that needs to come from a father saying, who are we, you know, as priors or as Cirillos or as Cotte Noirs or as Musks, like we, we need to make that mean something so that our children do not look for their identity in other things.
• 17:30
  And so there is this search that he described, this identity crisis. This identity crisis is very unusual historically and culturally. Most cultures, the kids do not go through an identity crisis predictably. In our culture, we do because we don't give our children an identity. We ask them to find their identity. And so much of this is actually happening in middle school and high school, because that's really when kids begin to need to draw from the source of that identity to understand who they are or what to do.
• 17:59
  So I I'm going to do a, a podcast coming up on the, we are looking at different myths and fairytales. I want to talk about specifically the lion king about this, because the whole point of that, that fairytale is really designed around the fact that we, you have to give your, your, your sons an identity in the family and the danger that's created by
• 18:20
  And what happens to them if they don't get that? It's very difficult. And so we have these stories that I love, you know, we're unpacking in different podcasts to try to help you guys, to equip you as fathers to understand that there's ways to even have these conversations symbolically with even very young children. But this is this crisis that he's describing. I think even now, you don't get the sense that I think Elon really understands that
• 18:44
  The identity problems that are created because of the weakening of the family. Although it sounds like he's beginning to see that, but having multiple marriages and having all kinds of kids with different wives, I mean, this is going to inevitably create, you know, a lot of identity crises for. And this is, again, going back to like, why does the Bible have a very narrow sexual ethic?
• 19:05
  And we can get into a little more detail there. But these examples, because Christians are often so embarrassed by the narrow sexual ethic of the Bible, not understanding what happens if you abandon that. And so we're always having this conversation on the back foot where it's like it seems so archaic, but then you just look a few decades down the line at what starts to unravel in society when you...
• 19:28
  abandon these ideas and these beliefs and these principles. And it's really ugly. So yeah, wow. There's so much going on here. Phil, I want to get you in here. I'm really curious what this is starting up for you. Need a blueprint to revise your family to be a multi-generational team on mission? The book Family Revision by Jeremy Pryor is the book that summarizes all the big picture ideas you hear on this podcast. Available on Amazon or familyteams.com.
• 19:59
  Yeah, man, a lot. You know, I think I agree with what you guys said so far. One of the things that I'm always trying to puzzle out are why this particular mind virus, as Elon calls it, why it found such fertile soil, you know, in those young minds. And of course, it's not just his child. It's a lot of people. And I think...
• 20:25
  As you say, it's kind of historically unprecedented, this identity crisis. And that's been happening for maybe a generation or two.
• 20:33
  But the transgender woke mind craziness is very recent. So again, going back to the vigilance that fathers need, it's like if you were, I don't know, if you had some full-time job and you were gone for 10 years, you wouldn't know anything about what was going on. This has just developed so recently. And so there's this added intellectual burden.
• 20:56
  I think for responsible fathers to understand what this is, because there's no hiding from it if you're going to live in a society. And I personally know three fathers whose children are identifying as transgender, three Christian fathers, two of them.
• 21:12
  It was part of a marriage breakup and it's, and it's the mother that was pulling the child towards this. And there's maybe there's, there's a, some thorny discussion to be had there about, about sort of the weaponization of compassion, which is more of a feminine trait. But the other person I know is a pastor and, and his daughter, you know, just,
• 21:34
  on Tumblr, I think it was, you know, these online portals. And it's just, she got into a whole world. And despite all the other influence in her life, something about this really sowed seeds deeply. And they're really in the middle of some heartbreaking stuff. So I think I really like what Carl Truman laid out in his writing. He wrote a couple of books on this topic, trying to understand how we got to this point that as a society, basically...
• 22:04
  By and large, we're ready to say that it makes sense. It makes sense to us for a man to say, I'm a woman trapped in a man's body. And he traces it back to, historically, to Rousseau, who starts to, I'm going to butcher this a little bit, but to really boil it down, it's the idea that identity became internal.
• 22:25
  Yes. My sense of myself internally is actually the North Star by which I decide my identity as opposed to all of the other voices external to me. Right. And then he says through Freud, you have our identity psychologized. Yep. And then you have our identity sexualized. So not only is my psychology most central to who I am, but my sexuality is most central to my psychology. Yes.
• 22:54
  And then, of course, more recently, we have the fact that sexuality has been politicized. So now it's all wrapped up in the political progressive movement. But he, Carl Truman does a good job in his writing of kind of laying out why the soil was so fertile for this particular virus to spread so rapidly and in those it infected so deeply.
• 23:17
  It's really stunning because one of the things that I find really remarkable about the conversation we just watched is the level of moral clarity and outrage they both share. But it's not a moral clarity that's shared by those who are on the other side. Right. And so there's something that's terribly obvious to them.
• 23:38
  And many others are blind to you because if you have different assumptions about human nature, about what it means to be human and what the core of an identity is, then it'll take you in a totally different direction. And to some people, it not only makes sense, but it's a moral good.
• 23:59
  to facilitate the, you know, this kind of transformation that people are seeking through these transgender therapy. So that's, that's some of the heady stuff that I go through my head as I listen to that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 24:12
  You're right about the intellectual burden. I think reading Carl Truman's book, what's the rise and triumph of the modern self. Yeah. Like, yeah, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, this French philosopher who was probably, um, who would have won the award for worst father of the year. I mean, this guy was unbelievable. I mean, his kids, I don't know if multiple committed suicide, he would have.
• 24:35
  kids with multiple women and abandoned them. I mean, and this is the guy that, that so much basically that, that philosophers agree that modern identity is being based on his philosophies. And so it's not surprising that they, that they destroy families. And to your point,
• 24:51
  we are so susceptible to any of these mind viruses. And, and part of what's happening is that you, when you abandon a Christian root structure, it isn't like you, you can just exist without a basic understanding or philosophy of life. Something else is going to have to fill that void. And so you have, and one of the things that Peterson has been really on the forefront of, of explaining is, is at least in America, and I'm sure there's elements of this in Canada, but in, in
• 25:19
  United States, the colleges of education that are basically certifying elementary school, middle school, and high school teachers has been co-opted by these viruses for more than a decade, a couple of decades now. And so you're beginning to see the downstream effects. Now, one of the things I want to say too about what people call the long march through the institutions, the strategy that was developed by progressives,
• 25:45
  you know, in the late sixties and early seventies to sort of figure out how to co-opt all these institutions. One of the things that, that you have to understand about, about this slow, steady, careful takeover of so many institutions that we're just now seeing the fruit of is that they have, they had a superior multi-generational strategy than Christian families. And, and part of what Abraham has taught us is whoever has the longest multi-generational strategy wins.
• 26:12
  Like that, that, that is the way to think about it. And so God gave us through the person of Abraham and understanding of the kinds of families that would be salt and light on the earth that would preserve the, the biblical understanding of, of God's ways. And instead of having a long-term strategy, most people within the Christian world have a one generation strategy for how to raise children, for how to think about the future. They we, we've been co-opted, you know, decades before of a mind virus that destroyed our understanding of family.
• 26:41
  which gave us this very short-sighted way of thinking about our children and our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren. We no longer had that multi-generational strategy. And in the vacuum of that, the enemy has really created a multi-generational, much longer-term strategy. They were willing to wait for 30, 40, 50 years to take over institutions. And they knew that many of those who were in the process of doing this were going to die before they were going to see the fruit of all the work that they were putting in.
• 27:09
  And now we're beginning to see the fruit. And so part of this is a warning sign that when you do have this short-sighted vision, the enemy understands the power of multi-generational strategy. And even though they're not having children, institutions are very much like families in the fact that they tend to exist generationally. They don't pop in and out of existence.
• 27:29
  And so if you have a family that tends to exist for one generation and then resets, but then you have an institution that lasts for 100, 200 years, it's actually a better vehicle for multi-generational strategy than even the family. This is why we have to get families back into a multi-generational mindset.
• 27:46
  Because otherwise the institutions will completely destroy our fragile one generational families. You can't win with a short term strategy like that. And that's, I think, part of what's stirring up. And yeah, Carl Truman's kind of articulation of this has been really helpful. Chris, what are your thoughts on that? I know you're chiming in on that.
• 28:04
  Yeah, I just had one thing that I was kind of unpacking in my mind as you guys are both talking and the, the back to the concept of identity in his book, it sounds like he's unpacking that they've framed it as identity is now inside of you. Right.
• 28:20
  But what's really interesting to me as I see this now is I don't know of a circumstance where someone has made a decision like this, where they now have gender dysphoria or any of these things without actually having that identity given to them. Like this pastor's daughter you're describing.
• 28:35
  You stumble upon a pathway that is feeding you an identity. And then the chaos and the evil of it is that they're deceiving you into thinking that that is yours and that you've come up with it. And so it's so insidious and so sneaky that it's like now you've also you've not only given someone a new identity, but you've convinced them that they have control over it. And so no one else can give it to you. And so fathers now are being blocked, even if they are being intentional after the fact.
• 29:05
  from inserting and providing this identity. It's absolutely insane. Yeah, yep. Yeah, and part of, I think, when you, I think one of the reasons why the sexual identities are becoming the prominent identities for people who lack any identity
• 29:23
  is when you're trying to figure out who you are and you only can look on the inside. Again, historically in every other culture, identity was granted to you as being a part of a community, being part of a family, being part of a faith. And today it's like, okay, all of that kind of,
• 29:39
  The belief is that that somehow violates your individual freedom of self-expression to have that identity given to you by your family, by your faith. And so what you need to do is go find your identity and where are you going to find that? We're going to find that inside. And so what you start to do is you start to like really try hard to figure out what is just naturally inside. And all of a sudden you start going through puberty and oh, lo and behold, I'm having sexual feelings. Yeah.
• 30:02
  And so now my, if I'm trying to ask what is the most authentic thing about me? It isn't, it isn't where my family comes from. It isn't what God says about me in scripture. It's not my faith. It's this sexual feelings that I'm having that are sort of welling up from the inside. That, that is a, that is a clue to the most authentic part of me. And then part of what then is being at the same time trumpeted in these
• 30:25
  in schools and in culture is that you need to really identify and try to feel if there's anything, if there's anything aberrant or anything that's unusual or anything unique about, you know, anything queer about the things that you're feeling. And if that is, then grab onto that, because not only are you going to get an identity from your sexual feelings, you're going to get a far superior identity if it's a unique thing, if you can join a victim
• 30:55
  You instantly get, get the support of an entire community and all the people that have supposed compassion for that community. If you can somehow find a feeling that's a little bit different than what is gender normative. And so, and so it's a, it's not hard to, to sort of, sort of map out what would happen to a middle school or going through a transition if they're immersed in an ideology like that, I mean, it's, it's inevitable that so many of them are going to get confused. They're confused anyway.
• 31:21
  But then they're being really directed towards these, anything that's aberrant or different or non-heteronormative, right? It's like that, that it's better. It's not just like, we're going to have compassion for you. It's that you now get, you know, with this identity, you now get the support of, for the rest of your life, becoming a part of a community, being supported by a larger community, and then being.
• 31:45
  having really a victim identity and in a world where victims are considered morally superior from anyone else, then you also will achieve unearned and endless amounts of moral superiority against everyone else, especially your parents who are going to judge you. If that's happening to you or friends or anyone in the culture on, on, on.
• 32:04
  Different part of the spectrum who might look at that and say, Hey, there's something wrong there. I don't know if you should do that. So, and so Xavier, I know, you know, reading Elon's biography, I think it was. There it was pointed out and I saw this in other places where part of the transition process was to cut off his dad forever. Like I, I no longer want the Musk name.
• 32:25
  I want nothing to do with my father. And, you know, and so he publicly really declared his, his just liberation from having anything to do with this evil man, which, which completely makes sense, given the fact that, that if you, if you believe in this sort of moral framework, that's being promoted alongside of gender identity, that you, you are, you are being victimized over and over. And I'm sure that many people looking at this and somebody just
• 32:55
  Like basically Elon is a coward. He's, you know, he's destroying his, he's, he's the one who's now by saying this stuff publicly is, is, is destroying his, his son, you know? So yeah, this, this, this, this has been so, so confusing. So yeah, anything else on that before I want to, I want to hit the, the vow that Elon makes and kind of kind of unprocess that with you guys, but any other thoughts on, on the gender identity part of this?
• 33:22
  The only thing I would say is what's been most clarifying or helpful for me is boiling it down to, you know, is there a creator who created things, let's say human people, with a purpose and a direction and an intentionality? Yes. As soon as you can come to that place where even before you have the question about the identity of that creator,
• 33:50
  If what we find in the human person, male and female, is by design, then you have already sort of a... That's, I think, the dividing line. And on the other side of that, you know, I think this, you know, this whole...
• 34:11
  this whole movement is only possible in a society that has rejected that and whose rejection of that has seeped deep down. And, you know, we've erased every sort of stamp of design
• 34:29
  And so, yeah, that's kind of, I think for me, it's been a helpful way to kind of zoom out. And even before we get into issues of sexual morality and politics, which can quickly become, people get defensive, people get quickly have their walls up. It's, you know, at a more fundamental level, does creation have order? Does it have design? Yeah.
• 34:52
  And yes, well, I think that one of the things that's so confusing culturally is we make sexuality an individual issue and, and that's how this sort of got smuggled in. But as soon as it got deep into, as soon as that was agreed, okay, we don't want to
• 35:07
  Invade people's bedrooms and suggest that we, you know, we should have any jurisdiction about the morality that happens anywhere else outside of our own behavior. It immediately became a cultural issue, right? It just, it was like, it was almost instantaneous as soon as it got accepted as okay. We.
• 35:22
  We're going to back away from this. Then it became, no, now we're going to impose this culturally. And this is a huge amount of confusion because if you try to understand why is the Bible's biblical sexual ethics so narrow, and it is so narrow, it says, look, it's not just like heterosexuality. It's if you do not...
• 35:39
  Sex is only appropriate inside of a covenant relationship between a man and a woman. Why is that? And the reason I believe, to your point, Phil, there is a natural design that God has created within, but I think it's not even at the level of the individual. I think like in the same way that,
• 35:56
  that people are trying to impose and suggest a new sexual ethic that is culture-wide. I think it is a cultural question. It's not just an individual question. And the kind of culture that the narrow biblical sexual ethic is trying to create is the kind of culture that is most likely to create flourishing, multigenerational families. That's the reason why homosexuality is a threat.
• 36:17
  You destroy a family line every time somebody makes the decision to transition or to embrace any kind of alternative sexual identity. And so if the Bible is trying to defend that kind of a culture, and there was a kind of a conversation that happened between Joe Rogan and Matt Walsh, where Joe Rogan was just pushing him really hard and saying, hey, what?
• 36:37
  Like, why would you say that homosexuality is a sin? That's so incredibly offensive. What these men or women do in their own bedrooms has no impact on me, has no impact on my marriage. And one of the things that I want to say, you know, like, and I think Matt Walsh was really having a hard time articulating this, is that, look.
• 36:56
  you don't know what it's like to grow up in a culture that has made homosexuality essentially equal to heterosexuality. You don't know. You don't know what that does to marriage. It's what it's going to do to your children's marriage, what it's going to do to your grandchildren's marriage. And this is the huge lie that this is a individual decision. And now we know that those who are
• 37:16
  who are advocating for alternative life styles, they don't believe it's an individual decision. They're making very clear they think this is a cultural decision. And this is where I agree with them. It is cultural. It is larger. It goes way beyond. It does create a kind of culture. It does change marriages. It does change the nature of the covenant. It does affect the way that the entire culture sees. And this is why in this generation, it's like, well, just a piece of paper. What's the big deal?
• 37:39
  That didn't just happen out of nowhere. That happened because we embrace so many aberrant ideas in this area that it's destroyed in a thousand ways the sacredness of the covenant of marriage. And so this has been eroding steadily over time. Now, I did grow up, like Joe Rogan, in a culture that had a much higher view of the sacredness of marriage. And so my marriage is much less affected by these kind of aberrant ideas that are happening. My children's marriages will be much more greatly impacted by these things.
• 38:09
  And so the diligence that it requires them to understand theologically the truth of the covenant is much greater than it took me. And then you look at a culture that has no ability to draw from divine revelation, to understand what that design was originally for. They're totally helpless.
• 38:30
  And this is why when Elon is describing being tricked and kind of going back to his statement about being a cultural Christian, one of the things that was being discussed today about this interview on X was the reality that being a cultural Christian was not enough.
• 38:46
  to protect Elon and his son from this virus. You need to be an actual Christian. You actually need to study scripture. You actually need to declare Jesus as Lord. That changes the level of defense that you in your own mind have against these viruses. Because the Bible famously describes sin as a virus, and it's a virus that affects everyone. The primary...
• 39:11
  A metaphor for that in scripture is yeast. That's why during the Passover, you get all the yeast out of your house. The idea is you can't stop yeast from, from permeating. And so there has to be the ability to get it out of your house and to create a portal, like defend the, defend the door and say, we will not allow this yeast into our house.
• 39:29
  And because it is a virus, it spreads, right? They didn't have a modern scientific understanding of virology. What they had was an understanding of how yeast works, which is, you know, identical to the way viruses work. And then Jesus then turns that metaphor upside down and says the kingdom of God is like yeast in the gospels and says that we have a countervirus.
• 39:49
  that is designed to completely transform culture and to go the other direction. So sin is coming at us with sort of this viral attack. We have these incredible truths coming from Christ, and because of the gospel, we have a way to create healing. So, all right, I want to talk to you guys about this vow because this is the part of it that maybe got me the most in terms of our conversation with fathers about the nature of fatherhood. So, you know, Elon...
• 40:15
  It's interesting, you know, Peterson keeps interrupting him in the interview. And then you can tell Elon's like, no, I want to say this last thing. He's like, so I vowed to destroy this mind virus, the woke mind virus. And so, you know, Elon has...
• 40:31
  I don't know if this was part of why he bought X. It does seem like it's sort of a similar amount of time between when this was happening to his son and when he bought X. I think it was shortly after, if I remember the timeline right. And then you just see all the other things that Elon has been doing. And I think even his decision to get politically involved recently, I think has a lot to do with this.
• 40:51
  So one of the things I believe about family is that part of the way that you discover your family's unique mission is by looking at your circumstances, the past, things that have really unusually impacted your family. And so when people have, when the enemy has done a work that.
• 41:09
  That has really damaged your family in some way. I do think that you need to take a big step back as a father and say, okay, I want to, I want to rally the resources of this family to, to counterattack the enemy in the area in which he's trying to destroy our family.
• 41:26
  And so I think this is really dangerous when fathers in particular retreat from being attacked by the enemy in some unique way. And so I think that can include things like sicknesses, like, hey, we're going to raise a lot of money to overcome this illness. It can mean anything that's happening where a particular sin has invaded. I mean, even in your own life, I have friends who have committed sins like adultery. I'm like, okay, well, I hope for the rest of your life.
• 41:53
  you understand in a unique way how that affects families. And I would make, as part of your family mission, at least consider the fact that attacking that sin and rescuing future families from undergoing what you went through, that is...
• 42:10
  possibly an important part of your family mission. And so his, his, his way of articulating this is, is making a vow to destroy this. And I think one of the things that I think Elon does that, that is so remarkable is he's, he is the most mission driven man I've ever heard of in my entire life. Like I, I've, I'm rereading his biography, biography now. And I'm not saying that
• 42:33
  You know, that's all good even like it's, it's been kind of ridiculous at some level, the, the level of dedication he'll give to the things. But when he decides that we're going to be a multi-planetary species and then creates a rocket company that, you know, can uniquely do that. That's like totally next level. You know, especially in the face of the fact that technology at the time was actually retreating, we were losing our ability to go to space. I mean, the, the amount that he had to overcome as a private.
• 42:59
  business owner to really change the whole trajectory of technology so that we could actually possibly achieve something like that. Absolutely remarkable. But I think that one of the things that I learned most from Elon is the ability to articulate a mission
• 43:16
  And then to garner all of his resources around that mission and to stay persistently dedicated to that mission no matter what. And I feel like a lot of fathers need to be doing this with their families, not in the way that
• 43:32
  Elon does it as an individual, like rally your family and not just one generation, but multiple generations and say, Hey guys, one of the things that I really sense that God is calling our family to do is in this area, we've taken this big hit. Let's counter attack. We're not going to be silent about this. We were already suffering from it.
• 43:51
  And especially when you've suffered from it in this way in which you've been like tricked because there wasn't enough, there wasn't enough people speaking out and giving awareness, proper awareness of what was happening. That, that to me is a huge signal that it's important.
• 44:06
  To say, okay, we're going to step into this. We're going to draw a line in the sand. And we're going to put our resources, our reputations on the line to counterattack. And I don't know how else to be salt and light if you're not willing to do that. And so I find that inspiring and important. And I think that...
• 44:22
  so much of what is beginning to reverse in even this idea of what's happened with a sort of woke ideology. I think you can trace back to Elon's purchase of X and his decision to make it a free speech platform when it was becoming very, very censored. You couldn't even say on Twitter that the definition of a man or a woman, this is how Babylon Bee got banned, was because they
• 44:51
  they misgendered somebody who had transitioned. And to, and so like, that's where we were.
• 44:57
  A public platform, the most public platform, you weren't even allowed to honestly describe what, you know, 50 plus percent of us believe about the nature of gender without being banned permanently from the platform. That, that was such a threat to our ability to fight back from, from this ideology. So yeah, Chris, what does that start up for you as you think about a father, a father,
• 45:21
  like kind of isolating a clear mission that he's going after because of how it's impacted his family. Are you following us on Facebook and Instagram yet? Look up at Family Teams to get even more free content and never miss out on event announcements.
• 45:42
  Yeah. I would say the first piece is conviction. Thinking about like just the sins of the past and my family, my own personally, but also like multi-generationally and like looking and going, oh, no one's ever done anything about that. And so even as you're talking, I'm just thinking about like, oh man, what are the areas where our family can reshape some of the ways we're thinking about some of this stuff?
• 46:07
  You know, like I have a family history of like people that were bootleggers during the prohibition and like huge drunkards. And like that has run through my family. And it's also like hidden and deceiving too. So like it kind of just sneaks in. And that was an experience that I had early on. And so what does it look like to...
• 46:29
  to think about multi-generational attacks against those kinds of viruses, pornography. I mean, you name it, the kinds of things that have come into families. It makes me think of the multi-generational blessings and curses that are described in scripture. And like, you know, there, is there a connection there to, you know, what does it look like to pursue honoring the Lord in a particular way? And can you have multi-generational blessing that comes from that and kind of disrupt some of these things? But I,
• 46:59
  On a basic sense, I'm just wondering how we come up with strategies that are counterattacks is basically. And I think it was you that told the story that came out of Donald Miller's book around that guy whose daughter was dating the terrible boyfriend. And then he kind of like brought a new storyline in, right? Yeah.
• 47:23
  That seems like a really small example, but it's like, what are the things that we can do to launch attacks, to change the story, to rewrite what's going on? And this is an early stage of me considering this. So I appreciate the conversation.
• 47:40
  Yeah, yeah, that's a chapter that Miller wrote called How Jason Saved His Family. And it really was by articulating a very clear mission in that case. His daughter was being completely captured by everything, you know, things that are really unhealthy. And so he articulated a mission for his family, which is we're going to try to save an orphanage in Mexico. And it suddenly turned, changed the story really for his wife and his daughter. And yeah, I think that so much of this needs to be, that's why the vow to destroy the woke mind virus,
• 48:10
  It's so powerful because it so clearly articulates the mission the way that Elon says we will become a multi-planetary species. It's like you got to get it down to a sentence because and it's also it clarifies kind of what who the enemy is. It clarifies who your allies are.
• 48:27
  And then allows you to focus enormous amounts of attention. And I talk to men about this a lot when it comes to sports. I think the reason why men are intoxicated by sports, that's sort of an underappreciated reason, is just because of the clarity of what it means to win and lose. It's so clear.
• 48:43
  Who's won, who's lost, what the score is, who's won the championship. Everybody agrees that that is really powerful for men. But once you get into the realm of family and mission, it's like, we don't really know. We don't know what the score is. We don't know what the championship is. We don't know if we're winning. We don't know if we're losing. And so you have to find ways to make it much more clear about what it is we're aiming at here.
• 49:04
  What are we trying to do? And so we've got this five-fold mission given to the family in scripture, be fruitful, multiply, fill, subdue, and rule, which you guys know, I'm really trying to understand it, articulate that at a level that I just haven't heard people talk about. It's a design of the family's mission. But what does that really look like? And what are the unique elements of a particular family's mission? I think oftentimes it's found
• 49:27
  in answering, you know, a few basic questions. What are problems that get to you more than any other problems? What are elements of your past that are unique to you that have really impacted your family in ways? And then when you look at your actual family makeup, your wife, your kids, what they're good at, what they're passionate about.
• 49:43
  when you start to, you know, Venn diagram those things, is there something that emerges that is like, wow, I think we're built for this. Like, let's go that direction. But it is, it is incumbent upon the father to try to articulate it as clearly as possible so that you can rally everyone in the family to really aim properly at that one goal to the extent that they feel called. And that doesn't mean that you're going to determine for your children what they're going to do for the rest of their lives. I don't feel like any mission, any particular articulation of the mission
• 50:11
  is sort of a closed book. I'm constantly asking and interacting with my kids about, okay, what are the things you guys feel called to? What are experiences you're having? How are you seeing the enemy get a hold of people you love? And could that be indicative of a particular mission that you're very specifically called to? And then how can we as a family
• 50:31
  move into that space with you and resource you or partner with you in whatever way we can. Because part of what isn't being said in the Peterson-Elon interview that we believe as Christians is that we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against rulers, against authorities, against dark powers. And I think one of the things that really steals us against these kinds of invasions
• 50:55
  is that we know that these viruses are being coded and generated by an enemy who's incredibly crafty. We learned that all the way back in the garden. And so part of what we're looking for is, and this is why I believe that when you think about this more from a militaristic perspective, this really needs to activate men in particular. Men are really built to think that way, I think, uniquely. Like we're built to think in a militaristic way.
• 51:22
  Like, like, like if there's somebody encroaching on our territory, we need to defend our territory. How do we start to marshal the resources of the family, our alliances with other families, the kingdom of God against this attack that's coming at us?
• 51:38
  And so I think that we need to have those conversations. We need to be making much clearer alliances with other fathers and begin to counterattack in areas where we have a common enemy. And so I'm constantly asking the Lord. You know, it's a tough thing to understand that the LGBTQ plus agenda is a common enemy against the kingdom. And there are a lot of victims and most of those victims, the worst victims are those who are actually caught up in the ideology. Yeah.
• 52:05
  You know, we, we need to be careful not to aim our guns at those people. There there's, there's something past them, right? There's, there's a, there's an enemy who's not human, who is, who's generating these ideas and is attempting to destroy these individual lives, but also destroy a whole civilization or multiple civilizations.
• 52:24
  And it's a very crafty lie. And we have to go to war against this ideology. There's no other way to do it. It will take more and more ground. And so I do think there's a legacy of passivity that we have all inherited at this point where people that generation before us
• 52:42
  had, I think it needs to be said, did a poor job of defending us from this enemy. And now they've taken so much ground that we're going to have to take much bigger hits, be willing to get canceled or take whatever hits it takes. Because at this point, we have to draw a line in the sand. It's no longer appropriate to sit on the sidelines and say, well, I hope a future generation will handle this. That is not the way a father thinks. A father says, I hope I can take the hit for the future generations.
• 53:08
  We have to be willing to do that. And this is the area. We've got to draw that line in the sand. When I see people waving those LGBTQ flags, especially around Pride Month or whatever, part of what I understand, and this is one of the things you have to understand a lot. Anytime somebody picks up a flag, every time there's a flag involved, if it's a national flag or any kind of flag representative movement.
• 53:31
  The primary thing that they're waving in those instances is there's a common enemy they're attacking, right? That's why after 9-11, people grabbed the American flag because we understood, okay, look, we're going to unify. But we're struggling really being patriotic until the moment we knew who the common enemy was. Part of when I see those flags being flown, it isn't, I don't primarily say this is in support of the LGBTQ community. Although, yes, there's an element of that.
• 53:57
  It is primarily a statement of war against biblical truth and biblical understandings of our sexual ethic. They're waving the flag specifically against the kingdom of God. I believe that. Now, I don't, again, that doesn't mean that we, we attack in any kind of worldly sense, we are always going after the ideology that's behind them. It's been generated by our enemy.
• 54:20
  But, but that, when it gets to that point, when it gets to the time of flag waving, it's gone way too far. And that's why I'm saying like, we can't wait anymore. We can't stand back. We can't, because they're basically saying you're either with us or you're against us. You're, you're, you're an enemy. If you don't, if you don't support everything that we stand for. And so that is a really advanced form of the virus that has taken over our culture. And we've got, we've got to get real about this.
• 54:48
  Yeah, Phil. What are you doing? Oh, go ahead, Chris. Yeah. Yeah. So just thinking about this again through a lens of being an army ranger. And I love the point that you called out of like, there's something behind the people. And that's like really critical to remember. One of the things I'm noticing throughout the Christian culture, online specifically, is I think they have forgotten that particular piece. And there is a tremendous amount of attacking towards individuals rather than,
• 55:17
  a demonic ideology. And I think about my experience as a ranger, like there's strategy was of the utmost importance. Like you didn't just take your gun and walk into enemy territory and look for a fight. You had a well-planned strategy around a particular target. You had overhead attacks
• 55:37
  air air coverage, like you had all sorts of resources at your disposal and you were always with a well-trained group of people. And so my encouragement to myself, as I'm listening to this and thinking in response to what you were saying is to everybody who's listening.
• 55:52
  is build an alliance and an allegiance with other people against a particular demonic ideology and start with prayer and begin to move from there. The Lord leads you in this particular mission to figure out what does it look like to have boots on the ground against these things
• 56:09
  Because just going online or going to the person on, on, at the grocery store that has, is wearing a pride flag and like berating them or whatever it is, like that's actually going to be unhelpful rather than moving things forward. And yeah, I just, I see a lot of that. Yeah, that's good. And I think, you know, one of the things that,
• 56:30
  I would say one of the greatest advantages right now we have, and somebody posted this and I was like, that's so important. Is that anytime somebody says that they're a cultural Christian, Elon says this in a statement earlier. He's like, yeah, I'm a cultural Christian. And like we said that.
• 56:45
  Those are the lowest hanging fruit for evangelism. It's like they already understand why Christianity clearly is, there's something true that's already ringing in their ears about it. And so there's sort of a lack of articulation, I think, that they've heard that has really caused them to say, well, why would I want to like,
• 57:03
  like really declare my allegiance to Jesus specifically and enter the kingdom of God. And so we, we need to be thoughtful about how to reach people that are in that situation. So, and you're going to see, I think we're going to see more and more of that happening. I think we're on the cusp of, of a real revival. I think there's going to be this, I think people are starting to see, sometimes the enemy is really shrewd and like, doesn't want to expose the sort of level of evil. But part of what, when they kept using the word evil, Peterson and Elon is interview.
• 57:34
  As soon as people start to really see the evil, even using that word means that there's a good, there's ultimate evil, there's ultimate good. And you're not far as Jesus says to one of the guys in Mark 12.
• 57:45
  he points at him and says to him, wow, you're not far from the kingdom of God. And when I heard this interview, I was like, oh man, Elon, you are not far from the kingdom of God. Like if you see true evil, then it's possible that your eyes are now being opened, that there is also a good God and that we need to join forces against these demonic evil forces that are coming against our culture. Phil, any last words before we wrap it up here?
• 58:13
  Well, just to come back to the idea of the flag again, I think that's good what you said, because I recently wrote a piece on my blog where I was thinking about the flag. Why is it a flag? You
• 58:27
  When you see a flag flying over a place, it's a declaration of allegiance to the authority that that flag points to. So there's a territorial aspect to it, too. When you plant a flag at a municipal building or in front of churches, which I see all over Canada, it's a declaration of conquest.
• 58:50
  Right. Well said. And there are things so demoralizing about that as a Christian who believes in the word of God, which is antithetical to the ideas represented by that flag. And it's really striking. And like you said, the enemy is the principalities, the powers, the intelligences behind these things.
• 59:09
  truly demonic, satanic ideas. And I mean that, as Peterson would say, I mean that technically in the sense that they invert. You know, the theology is one of complete inversion of every hierarchy that we have in society.
• 59:26
  And the other thing that I have reflected on is I walked through a number of small towns here in Canada and seen so many small, small businesses with a little pride flag in the front window. And I'm thinking to myself, do all of these small business owners really staunchly believe this stuff? Or like in Soviet countries, are they pressured into a kind of conformity because they don't want trouble?
• 59:56
  They just want to go about their business. They're not really into these things, but everyone's doing it. And if you don't, there's going to be problems. And I think there's a fair amount of that. And that's, I think, where the tide is starting to turn, where it's starting to be okay to say, you know what? I'm not going to fly a flag. And in fact, I'm against it because it hurts people. And I'm not a bad person for saying that. And I just want to touch on what you said about the passivity of fathers. One of the stories that was going around Canada was...
• 1:00:24
  You know, this man was on a girl's swim team, I think it was. And not only was it a transgender, but I think he was too old. There was something really weird about it. And like he identified not only as a woman, but like a woman who's not even his age. But of course, if you're going to melt down all categories, then I guess you can do that too, right? So anyways, this was going on in a small town here in Canada. And the question that was coming up is like, where are the fathers of these teenage girls? Yes.
• 1:00:54
  Because as a father, if my teenage girl is in a locker room with 11 girls and one 40-year-old man, I'm busting in there and I'm going to do what I have to do to protect my daughter. Like you said, the vow that Elon says and the way he says it, he's a very unemotional guy when he speaks, right? He's very flat. Yeah.
• 1:01:15
  But there's something about it. There's like a deep purpose behind it. And I feel like I'm watching like the first 15 minutes of a revenge movie where something's happened to the guy. And it says, I'm going to I'm going to devote the next whatever it takes. I'm going to take out all the guys to the very top.
• 1:01:32
  to pay back what happened to the person I love. Yes. And yeah, whether it's taken or John Wick, you know, you have this sense of like, oh, this guy's not going to be stopped. Yeah. And that's the spirit of, that can go sour, let's be honest. But there's something of the spirit of fatherhood and of manhood in that.
• 1:01:51
  And, and like you said, like, like you said, like, where are the fathers? Like there's, it's mostly women being victimized by this ideology. Right. And I think we haven't seen a showing of good fatherhood in response to it. And, and hopefully that's starting to turn, but that's, that's definitely there. Well said. Yeah. That dad energy that gets woken up.
• 1:02:14
  Your dad, listen to this, man, this is you, you, you develop everything in your life. Your, the depth of relationship with your children, your relationship with God, your resources, like what a father does is he accumulates like strength. And then, then through all these relationships and everything that you're building in your life, and part of what you have to be willing to do is, is aim that strength at things that, that God is calling you to do to expand the kingdom or defend the kingdom.
• 1:02:42
  And, and so, yeah, we're, we need, and to your point about, man, I was a really good point about, about the, the nature of conquering and putting the flag. I have a friend who refused to put that flag in, in his business and he gets targeted every single pride month, just mobbed online people, you know, asking everyone in the city to boycott his business and everything.
• 1:03:02
  because he didn't put that flag there and so it is a chilling warning to everyone else that you be conquered or we are coming for you and so like that's what i mean by this has really gotten too far part of what you have to understand is like we have to be in in the in for the fight when jesus said go make disciples of all nations that is a a world conquering mandate and it's a conquering through love through the gospel through discipling
• 1:03:26
  And through training disciples to be obedient to the ways of Jesus like that, that is what we do. And so there, there, and so in the spiritual realm, and I think part of what happens to democracies is you get kind of lulled to sleep. About the nature that we're still at war and that, and that these ideologies, both things that are coming against the kingdom and then the kingdom itself, these things are at war and that, and that we are, we are soldiers as, as Paul says in second Timothy two.
• 1:03:52
  You know, we are soldiers in the midst of this battle. And a father has a particular interesting role to play within the context of a, a in a war they're caring for children.
• 1:04:04
  They're trying to raise a family. They're trying to build resources. And then they get these waves of attacks where they have to join the militia and actually return fire. And so I think part of what we need to do is understand how kind of ancient warfare occurred for forefathers. And we need to be figuring this out. So awesome. Well, yeah, that was a lot. I just wanted to hit that while it was so fresh and I think...
• 1:04:27
  in, in my mind. And, and I think in the conversations that are happening around, yeah, how do we respond to the things that got started up in that interview? I think that was, that was really helpful. So thank you guys so much for doing this with me today. Thanks so much, Jeremy. Appreciate it.
• 1:04:43
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