Latest / How Hard Can It Be? with Diana Maria Riva / Elisa Donovan on Grief, Saying No, and Rebuilding After Losing it All

Transcript

Elisa Donovan on Grief, Saying No, and Rebuilding After Losing it All · How Hard Can It Be? with Diana Maria Riva

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today's guest sits with me as we have some real
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: talk about keeping your identity when everything's falling apart, the
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: art of people-pleasing, and the gift of saying, I'm not busy,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I just don't want to. I mean, how hard can
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: it be? Welcome to another episode of How Hard Can
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: It Be, a podcast for Gen X women navigating midlife's
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: most fantastic bullshit. I'm your host, Diana Maria Riva, and
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: I am so excited... to have this gorgeous woman on
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the show today. She's not just the hilariously and iconically
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: memorable Amber from the 90s famed film Clueless, whatever, and
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: the Clueless series, but we loved her in the unforgettable
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: film Night at the Roxbury, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, which
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I worked with her, but I bet you didn't know
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: that she is also an author, an accomplished equestrian, and
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: salsa dancer, and gymnast, and speaks fluent Castellan. I feel
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: like a hack. I feel like I don't do enough.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Elisa Donovan, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I am so happy to see you, as you know,
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: because I've already said it, and I've really been looking
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: forward to this. And I have to start by saying,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: I used to speak fluent Castellano, I am.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Latina and I know Castellan is different. I don't understand
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: what you're saying. I'm impressed with you because I went
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: to Spain. It was the first time I'd ever been
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: to Europe when I was 50. It was my first trip.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: And when I heard that, I was like, God, it's
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: so beautiful. I don't know what they're saying.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: It really is different. But like, that's how I lived
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: with a girl. I mean, I studied Spanish and growing up,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: but learned very little. And then I lived with a
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: girl from, Fuente de Villa in the north of Spain
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: in college in New York City. And she, that's really
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: how I, then I started studying again and then I
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: lived with her family for a short time and then
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: I lived in Spain for a while. So that's like
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: how I learned really.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: You lived in Spain for a while.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: There was a moment where I was just going to
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: exit life here and go to, in the States. And
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: it was really, so I had a, What my book
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: is about, Wake Me When You Leave, is really about
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: this period of time, but before I decided I might
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: move to Spain. It was like everything changed. Sabrina got canceled.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: My relationship ended. My dad got cancer and died. It
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: all happened at one time. And I was like, maybe
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: it's just time to go. Maybe it's time to just...
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: try something else, you know?
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: And I like re-evaluated my life and I wanted to go.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I didn't want to go on like a pilgrimage to,
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: you know, India or someplace that I hadn't been before.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I wanted to have like, go to a place where
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I could like live a little bit. And I had
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: been to Spain before. I had lived with my friend's family.
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: So I was like, I'm just going to go. I
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: rented an apartment. I sublet my house here. And I
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: went to Spain for a couple months.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Were you always this self-aware of asking what you want
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: in life and where you want. So this can sound
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: like a crisis that it was like a midlife crisis,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: but it happened at an age where it wasn't midlife. What,
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: you know, you were young.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I was like 31 or 32.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. What was your, oh shit, is this midlife moment?
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: You know, I never looked at it, like you said,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: like as a midlife thing, but I definitely remember distinctly
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: having the feeling of, I did not know who I
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: was anymore. And I felt like, well, I'm an artist.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I'm an actress. No one seems to want to hire me.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: So are those things true? And am I just going to, like,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: paint on wall? Am I going to move maybe to
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: the south of Spain and I'll just, like, paint? I mean,
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: I'm a terrible painter, but I really like it. It's
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: worth a try. It's worth a try. And so, you know,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I just was kind of reevaluating what do I want?
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: What really matters to me? If I can't do, like,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: what does that look like? Do I have to rely
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: on everyone else? Yeah. for my own livelihood, which felt
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: very scary and very sad and very not like what
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: I had signed up for, you know? Where I went, oh, wait,
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: have I created this entire career that is dependent upon
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: someone else saying yes to me? And I realized that
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: it definitely was. And I just didn't know what to do.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: And I knew that I was deeply, deeply unhappy and
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: sad and grief-stricken over my dad. So I think that
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: was a moment of like, whoa, is this what it's
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: going to look like?
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's a question. It's not even like something happened,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: like I say, about hair growing from places that there
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: was never hair. Sometimes it's just a question of like, wait,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: what's happening here? Yeah. your father passed when you.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: Were how old?
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: I was 31. And where were you in your career
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: right there?
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: I felt like, so we were doing Sabrina.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: And it was the final, what we didn't know it
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: was going to be the final season.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: That's the season I was on.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: That's the season that you were on. And you guys,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: as you could tell, everything was a little bit like
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: uncertain of where is this going? They were trying to
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: go another direction, having a hard time. There was just
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: a lot, uh, happening. And I felt like I want
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: to move on. I'm going to do another great TV show. This,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: you know, that's just going to be my story. And
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: I tested. So the show was canceled and I Is
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: that one I found out? I remember one show getting canceled.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I found out on a treadmill at the gym. I'm like, oh,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: am I going to the network announcements in New York? Oh, no,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not going because I just read in the paper
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: that it's canceled. But I think that was Clueless, the series.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I think, Sabrina, we did know that we were shooting
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: our last episode. And I tested for... 11 different pilots.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: 11.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Wow. In the same year? In the same season.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Nice.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: And you know what goes into one. Yeah. All the paperwork,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: the conversations with the lawyers, oh my God, five years
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: of my life, you know, like all the things that,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: it's all fantastical because.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. For those
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: of you who don't know, when you go into test
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: for a pilot to get the ultimate cast into that role,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you have to sign all agreements and documents and contracts beforehand.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: So you sign as if this is it. This is
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: going to be my life, da-da-da. But if they choose
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: the other girl who went in before you, then none
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: of that is– it's all null and void. And then
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: it's nothing. So 11 times, like, sign yes.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: 11 times.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Sign yes.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: Sign yes.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: And then I– got zero was hired zero times and
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: um then the relationship I was in with my boyfriend
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: ended of how many years of two so here's only
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: two years but I thought we were going to get
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: married and he was the person I never thought I
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: wanted to get married in my life and I met
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: this person and I went oh my gosh I I
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: remember being embarrassed about it and saying to girlfriends at
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: lunch I think I might want to get married. And
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I was like crying. And they were like, why are
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: you crying? And I was like, well, because it just
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: seems like very conventional. It's not something that I want
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: to do.
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: I'm so disappointed in myself. But I really loved this person.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: And then he didn't really want to grow up. And
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: then I met him. It became complicated. It was like
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: we can't stay together. And right in that moment, I
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: found out that my dad was diagnosed with cancer.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: So I literally finished Sabrina. I leave my boyfriend and
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I were like, this is, we can't do this anymore.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: And my brother calls me and tells me that my
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: dad has cancer. So everything just kind of like fell
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: to pieces. And now I forgot what your question was, but.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: I don't even, I think I was, Oh, I just
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: asked you how old you were when you lost your
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: father and what was going on in your career at
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: the time. So you 11 pilots. Yeah.
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: No job, no boyfriend. And then all of a sudden
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: I was like, you know, when a parent is ill,
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: no matter how old you are, you re-evaluate your whole
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: life because you become the child again, right? Even as
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: an adult. And I felt like I was 31 years old,
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: my whole identity, and even my identity within my family
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: was wrapped around me being this actress, right? It sort
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: of made our family interesting and then also normalized me.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I felt like it served all of these purposes that
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I was putting on myself, I'm sure. But I felt
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: very much like that's who I am in this family
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: and in this world. So if I don't have that,
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: what do I have to offer?
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: What are your anchors? Yeah.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: Like, who am I? What am I doing? And then
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: I realized how attached to my dad I was. And
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: then I felt weird about that. Like, I'm a grown woman.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Why do I feel this way? Why do I feel so... moored,
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: you know? And then it was like everything that I
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: could identify myself with was taken away. And then when
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: that happens, you either lose your mind completely, which I
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: felt like I was at moments, or you kind of
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: build everything back up again from the inside out.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: And did you do that by writing your book you
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: mentioned definitely so you wrote a book called wake me
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: when you leave wake me when you leave and that
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: was your mooring then yes that.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: Was your so I first did it as a play
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: um at the Geffen at the Audrey Skirball the smaller
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: theater we did it as a benefit and that show
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: that experience I went Oh, this is what I'm supposed
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: to be doing. I'm supposed to be somehow communicating the
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: human condition and impacting people in this way that is authentic,
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: that people were like laughing. and weeping at the same
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: time it was like this incredible sense of connectivity and
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: people being and I went this is why I became
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: an actress you know and we don't always get to
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: do things like that right as actors you know in
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: an ideal situation we do but not always and I
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: felt like However I can do this, this is what
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: I need to do. Like this is where I need
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: to focus myself.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Isn't it amazing how you can have something happen in
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: your life, actress or not? Just something just that rips
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: the carpet out from under you or just jolting and
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: it ends up being your launch or your propellant into something.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Better, greater, or just more sound, even if it was to,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: you know, I remember I was single for a very
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: long time and that was my choice. I wanted to
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: raise my children and take care of them without having
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: that distraction, being present and available to them. But I
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: did date someone for a minute, and the breakup was
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: so bad, and I was so angry at myself. I'm like,
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: did you learn nothing from your divorce that you would
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: go through this? And then I thought, here I am
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: at this stage in my life. I was about to
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: turn 50. So I used that as this moment. I
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: was like, you've learned nothing, and you're about to turn 50.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: You just went through a heartbreaking divorce. And then here
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: you are now in this one relationship that didn't work
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: out and ended poorly that you should have ended a
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: year ago. And what did it do? Well, it propelled
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: me to really do some soul searching as to who
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: I am, what I want and what I don't want.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: So what decisions then did you make from there? You
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: got married. You did meet the man.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: So I realized I, you know, and the thing is like,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: it would be so great if we could just sort
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: of like set ourselves up for those little falls and
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: be like, it's.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. Hindsight would be amazing.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: But while it's happening, you're like, this is a total
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: shit show. So I realized in that whole rebuilding time,
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: I also had a lot of relationships in my life.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I almost married a Spaniard when I went over there.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: That was a whole other thing. He came back over here,
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: and then I realized, oh, as much as I like
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: to drink wine like the next.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Guy, but.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I don't think I could do it starting at like
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: 8 a.m. and just like ride my bike around L.A.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: The one thing that I learned when I went to
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Spain was they do not hydrate enough. No, that is right.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: You need to constantly have a water.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I would be at the restaurant and they would be like,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: wine and wine and wine and vino and wine and
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: ham and cheese and wine. It was so great. I'm like,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: can I have a little water, please? And they come
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: and just, Luke, a little water. I'm like, can I
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: have a little more water, please? Just a little hydrate.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: That is very Spanish. But I get it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: But you did end up.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I realized, you know, and it sounds like, oh,
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: so simple and great.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, great.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: And then I realized, yeah, I do want, you know,
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: a husband and a child. I always knew that I
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: wanted to be a parent. I knew I wanted to
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: be a parent from when I was younger, but I
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: knew I wanted to do it later in life. I
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: had a couple of girlfriends, well, really one that had
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: children very young, like one right out of high school.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: She was my best friend growing up. And I saw
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: how that was working. That was great for her. That
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: was really what she wanted. And I went, I don't
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: want that. I want to have something to offer to
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: a child. I always looked at it like I want
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: to have a life. And I don't even know that
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: I looked at it as though I wanted to have
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: a career to show them. But I felt like I
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: wanted some life and some experience to share with them.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: So then at a certain point, I went, well, if
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: this person that I thought I was going to marry,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not marrying and all the shit hits the fan.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: And then you kind of come to this middle place again.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: And I realized that like my, what I was looking
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: for had changed dramatically, you know, that I was, I
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: was interested in someone that could be a partner to me,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: not a project, not a project. Oh, so many projects.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: So many projects.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: I got this. I've got this. Totally. Let me.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: So. Yes.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Yes. So many projects. And, you know, beautiful things in
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: those projects, but not my job. So I wanted a partner.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: And I also wanted someone that wasn't going to rely
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: on me financially. That was a very specific thing. And
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: somebody that didn't identify... me as my career. Like I
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: didn't realize because I needed someone on the outside to
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: not be valuing that in the way that I did
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: for myself. So much so that when I met my husband,
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: he was like, what do you do? Like, what do you,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, I'm, you know, I'm in entertainment. Oh, well,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: what do you mean? What, like, what do you do?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I work in film and TV. Oh, well, in what capacity?
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: I was like, well, you know, I'm an actress, but actress.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: He was like, oh, anything that, you know, I've seen.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And we met in Mexico. And I was like, well,
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I did this movie, Clueless, and that's usually.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: And he goes, oh, yeah, I never saw that.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: You were the one?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And then I'm like, I started like rattling all
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: the things off. And I was like, hey, guy, guess what? Like,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I have a legit career.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Like, people know who I am. They think I'm.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Pretty good, you know? And I was like, he really,
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: the one thing he had seen was Beverly Hills 90210.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, that was like. 700 years ago, and okay.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: And then I was like, is this guy gay? He
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: watched 90210 with his friends.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: What is happening? My great story is I've been with
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: my partner now for four years, and we met on
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: a dating app.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I love this.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: Yes. Hinge, if you want to be sponsors of this,
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: you know, there is life after 50. But my point is,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: is that we met on Hinge. And the great story is,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: is that, you know, I lost a bet with my girlfriend.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: And so she said, if you lose the bet, you
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: have to go on to this dating app. And so
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: I lost the bet. She set me up. No, totally.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't want to be on this goddamn thing.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: Whatever.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. What do I do? What pictures did I put?
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: I didn't want to put any selfies on there. So
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I put on all the greatest pictures that my friends
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: had taken of me. So I'm on a paddle board
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: in Puerto Rico. I'm in Temecula wine tasting. I'm sitting
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: with my dogs because we all know people love dogs
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: and whatever. And then I'm by a fire. I got
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: great legs. My legs are hot.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm going to do this.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: And then I was like, you know what? Just let
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: me do it. Hold on. I'll just look and find you.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: You don't need to find me. So I kept coming
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: back to this guy, back and forth, and I finally
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: land on someone who, his stuff made me laugh. He
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: was very, very honest and blonde, and I thought he
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: was handsome. He was an EMT on the ambulance for
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: many years, and now he's a medic. set medic. And
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I thought, okay, he cares about humanity. And I'm thinking
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: this is good. So I reached out to him in
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: a crisis. He'll come save me when he's saving. Otherwise
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: I'm an independent woman. So leave me alone. And then
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I finally said, you know, I reached out to him
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: about his artwork. We started talking. Um, and we, two
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: weeks later, we ended up at dinner. And if you
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: had told me five years ago, this was the guy,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: I would have been like, he's super sweet, totally not
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: my type. Thank you, but no. And he's everything. And
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I think it takes that time of going through those
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: things in life, walking through those crises. Those heartbreaks, those heartaches.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Have you learned your lesson? And I had. And the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: greatest full circle about this was that probably about six
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: months into us dating, I said, you know, if my
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: profile had come across your feed, would you have swiped
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: right on me? And he's like, so here's the thing.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Your profile did come across on my. You swiped left.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I thought you were like a high-end real estate agent
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: from the OC. You're like on a paddle board somewhere,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: exotic drinking wine. I thought I'd never.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Be able to afford this woman.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: And so every... A couple months, I just walked by
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: out of nowhere, and I'm like, you're welcome. You're welcome.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: Just out of nowhere. Yeah, sometimes we do better. We do,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: and he is grateful every day for me, even though
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: we missed our anniversary the other day. We have these
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: moments in life that get us to where we are.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: You now have this beautiful, you're married, you have a
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: daughter who's turning 14 this year. I can't even. Would
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: any of.
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: Your roles back in the.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Day inform you as a parent? Did you take anything
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: from any of those roles and say something wise?
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I don't, you know, most of the characters, first of all,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: I didn't even get cast to play a mom until
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I was like 42 or something crazy. Because they won't
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: know because I look so young because they're like, oh no, she's, like,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: you know, they have the idea. Oh, that girl, like, she's,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: you know, 20. I'm like, guys.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: That's the dream, though.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: It keeps going, but they just, like, don't. So, I mean,
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: most of the characters that I've played have been not, like,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: the greatest.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: That's why you have the most fabulous character wardrobe in
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: the history of actors.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Yes. I mean, it is always that wardrobe has predominantly, like,
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: played a part in the character, which is super fun.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Right. Like, if it helps.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: To inform what you're doing, it's, like, been great.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: What about what nugget of wisdom have you found yourself...
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Can you hear your father coming out in your words
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: to your daughter?
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, I had... part of what my
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: book is about is very much like the afterlife and
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: our connection to spirit and all of that. And I
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: was told by someone, by a medium, I'll say it.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: That's what I talk to these people. And I was
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: told that my dad held my daughter before she was
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: like birthed to me, like before she was, whatever your
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: belief is about when the soul comes into the body.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: That he held her before and said, like, I'm going
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: to guide you through this. And I remember a moment
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: when I was pregnant, and I kept thinking early on
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: in the pregnancy, and I was so nauseous, like so nauseous.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: And everybody's like, oh, you're having a girl. That's what
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: it means. And I was like, no, I'm having a boy.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I was so steadfast. Like, I'm having a boy. He's
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: going to wear a little bow ties. He's going to
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: be smart and funny. And I did this whole thing.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: And I remember this moment. And I was swimming. We
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: were on this like a baby, whatever it's called, if
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: you're not going to take a honeymoon, but you're pregnant
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: and then you're going to go on a trip. That's
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: what we did.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Because we got married after I had my daughter.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: And we were in this beautiful place, and I had
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: this moment where I was like, oh, I'm having a girl. Like,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: something has changed. I'm having a girl. And I always
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: wonder if, like, that was that moment. You know, was
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: that the moment when the guys, everybody was like, your
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: dad just took her, and now she's coming to you.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful.
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: And it really does, like, it made me, too, because
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: I feel like. she especially when she was a baby
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: she kind of looked like.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: Him you know genetics.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Are so funny that way how there are certain things
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: like her nose is like i.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Get my nose from my dad he came out with
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: my chin i'm like oh shit he's got my chin
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: it was undeniable.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Weird he's my clone it's so bizarre.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: It is it's such a gift though it really.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Is it's beautiful and i feel like you know He,
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: where I see my dad, I think we have the
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: same work ethic, my dad and I, which is very, like,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: you work hard, you get it done, don't fuck around. Like,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: you work hard. Like, I have a great time. I love. Really,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: he had a great sense of humor, too.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: There is this reality and expectation of who you were
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: growing up in this industry, being this beautiful woman, And
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: the expectation and the thought that it's all hair, makeup,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: and glam, and you're always centered, mindful to your body
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: and whatnot. And then who you are today, still an artist,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: still creating wonderful works, raising a daughter, and how that
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: informed you. Is there anything that you feel that you're
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: better at today than you were back then?
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, definitely.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: As a woman.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: So many, so many things.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: What's the biggest thing?
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I think about... speaking up for myself and taking care
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: of myself.
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: Where.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: If I did that in my 20s, in my past,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: it would either come out like a vomit out of like.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Shut the fuck up, I know what I'm saying, why
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: are we doing this?
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: You know, and they're like, hey, I don't know if
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: that's like how you needed to say that. So it
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: was either that or nothing, you know, or I would
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: like people please. I was always just like, everybody loved
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: to work with me. Everybody did like, oh, she's so great.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: And then as soon as you start to sort of like,
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: ask questions or say things. It was like, just, can
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: you kind of just look pretty, wear a short skirt
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: and you're funny. Like, they're like, you're funny. I mean,
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: nobody's like, like you're, you're funny too. And I was like, right. Okay.
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: So like, what's the problem? And I kind of didn't
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: know how to navigate the whole thing. And now I
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: feel like I just know how to do that inherently,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: like how to take, to speak up for myself, but
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: to just, take care of myself. Like, oh, I can't
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: do that today. You know, even in a social.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Circumstances, like saying no. It's self-care.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: To something that sounds great or even if I really
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: feel as though I want to support, because I'm very
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: big about supporting one another and supporting people in my community.
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: My girlfriends are like everything to me. And so, and
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: my family, obviously, you know, so I, there is a
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: definite balance of doing that. Like I want to be accountable.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: I'm very big about that too. Like don't, don't give
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: me your bullshit of like, I might show up, I
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: might not show up, you know, like I don't, I'm
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: not having that. So I really try not to commit
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: to something that I, That I'm like on the fence about.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I think that's big. I think the people pleasing thing,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: if you can master the art of letting that go,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I think that is a half the battle in this
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: chapter of life of living it more presently to yourself.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Because that's where we overextend. Yep. That's when we live
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: too much being present to everybody but ourselves. Yep. And
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: it starts with saying, you know, I have a friend
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: that says that she now just says to people, I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: don't have the bandwidth. Yes. That's her phrase.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Bandwidth is a great term.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I don't have the bandwidth. Whereas she said she used to. Say, like,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I can't. I have an appointment at the doctor's that day.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: And then she would write in her book, like, you're
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: at the doctor's on this day. You know, she'd write her,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: give herself some notes.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Write a reminder. Yes, yes.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and now she's just like, I just got to
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: the point where I tell those people I don't have
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: the bandwidth. And if they're my friend and they understand,
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: they know. that I would go if I could, if
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: I felt like I could enjoy it, I was available, whatever.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: And now she says, I don't have the bandwidth. And
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: I'm like, that's just a great little.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: It's a great term. And that also, for the record,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: makes you, I think, a better friend and a more
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: present person because you don't... The worst thing to me,
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: what feels the worst to me is showing up for
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: something and... And feeling like, God, I don't want to
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: be here. Or, gosh, I just can't. This is like,
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: when is this going to be over? That's a terrible
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: feeling for me to have. I don't like it. And
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I know that I can't be my best self. And
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: the truth is, we feel better when we're coming from
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: our higher selves in a genuine place.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: You can't go to everything. You can't be at every party.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: You can't celebrate every win for everyone else. But those
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: who know you know that you're there to support and
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: uplift them when it counts. And that should count. Are
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: you one of those easy friends that if you disconnect
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: for a few years and then you connect, you pick
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: up where you left off?
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I love that. Yep. Yeah.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: And sometimes I think that that's another thing that I've realized.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I used to really, really want to, you know, fix
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: things if there were problems in friendships. And that's part of,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: you know, being intimate and having close friends. It becomes
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: like family. And then like family, you have a lot
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: of like push and pull and button pushing and all
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: that stuff. And I used to feel like this has
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: to be fixed right now. Or this person's like out
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: of my life forever. And I realized, you know, I've
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: had a couple of, one in particular, I'm thinking of
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: like a real tough moment with a good friend a
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: couple years ago. And I, it was the first time
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: where I went, I need to just take some space
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: from this. Like I can't, I'm not making anything final.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to make this some like violent, tumultuous,
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: emotional end. But I'm going to go ahead and trust
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: that if this person is supposed to stay in my life,
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: we're going to get there and it's not going to
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: be right now.
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: And let me ask you, because I walked through something
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: like that before and it was painful.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Did it fall out? So we, it.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Took about seven months. And I felt the one thing
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: that I realized in that period was that It's always
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: my pattern to go to be the one to reach out,
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: even though I did not feel I was in the wrong.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: And I was really hurt. And I had this time
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: to say, I was really hurt by this situation. And
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I don't feel it wouldn't be authentic to me for
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: me to reach out and say, I think we need
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: to talk, even though I knew that we had to.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: And she initiated and emailed me. And that spoke volumes
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: to me. And, you know, it really brought up the
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: kind of core differences in who we are as people,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: which is okay to have those differences.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: And how you navigate friendship.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: And how you navigate friendships. And, you know, we are,
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't say, we're very close. And the friendship has
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: shifted a little bit. And I feel okay about that.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: But I absolutely love this woman. And I think we
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: kind of, came to probably a deeper level yeah where
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: um I hope she feels the same that, you know,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: she can say what she needs to say to me.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: And I feel that way, too. And I don't also
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: expect everything. This is another thing I think I've learned
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: as a grown-up, as an older person, that not every
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: person in my life has to fulfill every part of me,
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: you know? Mm-hmm. Some friends can be just more social.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: My husband doesn't have to be everything to me. Yes. And,
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: you know, he doesn't have to love to go to
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the ballet.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: He doesn't.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: No.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: And let me tell you, he doesn't.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Learn that.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: He's not going. And that's okay.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Here's what I want for you to say. I want
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: to end this, wrap this up with some to get
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: to know where you are and how you look at things.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: So this is kind of a fun segment of the
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: show where I'm going to read off a couple of things,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: and you tell us how hard is it really.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, God.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: So hard. So this is fun. It's like a rapid fire.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Like a rapid fire, okay? Best night of sleep, thermostat
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: at 66 degrees or just open windows?
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: Open windows if I can.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Like I'm on frigid, just Arctic.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: Well, I live in San Francisco, so it's always cold. Oh,
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: and I definitely need it cold. Is that the question?
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: It needs to be cold.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Open windows.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I put the thermostat at 66. Yeah. In the.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Winner.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: In the winner.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. We have it at 67.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: Okay. Yep. I need to be a little cool. Well,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: first of all, I still have the sweats like all
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: the time.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: Oh, girl.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Just like, I'm like, when does that end? And my
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: whole family, my daughter's like, mom's having the perimenopausal sweats.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Like it's all a whole family discussion now.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Pay attention. You're walking into it, kid. Yeah. I said
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: to my daughter the other day, I said, what I
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: am walking out of, you are walking into. So, and
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: your brother's stuck right in the middle. Yeah. So she's like, what?
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you'll get it.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll get it.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Pillows.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: One, two, or three?
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Two. One under the head. One that I hold and
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: sometimes put on top of me almost like a.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: So that's two to three.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Two to three. Two to three.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Minimum.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: Minimum two. Minimum two.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: You hold the pillow.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I hold one. But the, which I think it definitely
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: goes back to, did you have a snoogle? Do you
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: remember what a snoogle is when you're pregnant? your kids
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: are older maybe it didn't exist my daughter's like 13
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: and it's a circular pillow that you it went over
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: you like a sea pillow I don't know what it
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: was called now I don't even.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Know which way and they sat on the no like
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: a big one oh no no I saw that and
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: you like sleep with that thing and then you want
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: to throw it and light it on.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Fire because it's like so but I feel like that
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: was when that was birthed but also I'm very particular
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: about the pillow like it has to be soft enough
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: that it's not going to hurt my neck and my back,
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: but it has to have some support so that it's like.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: A little nook. Totally. I've become Goldilocks with pillows. Oh,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: me too. And it's amazing. Every woman that I've asked
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: in this chapter of life how many pillows, they're like two,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: two and a half. Yeah, right. Everybody has their thing.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes like between my knees. Not as much now.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: It's more now like a, you know.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Like a little cuddle bug.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Okay. And last thing, what's your ideal three-day weekend to
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: give to yourself? Look how excited.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Okay. First of all, I do.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: Go ahead. I do.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I'm a big yogi. I've been practicing yoga for 30
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: years now almost. So it would definitely be a very
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: hot yoga class, but I don't like to talk to
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: people in yoga. I'm not looking for like friends.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: And if it's hot, I've been to those. I don't
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: want to talk to anybody. I'm miserable. This is a
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: wool hat on my head 365 days a year. I
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: am a walking hot yoga class.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: But everybody wants that.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: No, I'm okay. I'm in peace with it.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I'm like losing mine. So that. Then I would have
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: like a really nice brunch. with a group of people
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: friends that I love that are interesting and funny and
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: it would involve great wine and really good food and
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: then we would definitely do something we would go dancing
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: in some regard but we would it would also be
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: like No hassle. You know what I mean?
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: Drama free.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: No hassle. Drama free. There would be some, it would
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: probably definitely involve a foreign country. So, you know, some
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: kind of new experience with cobblestone streets always like breeds
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: something fun.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: And so it is. Manifest this. Here's the best thing
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: about this, too, that you're here not only giving me
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to enrich my show, but you have a
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: podcast that was just released with iHeart.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: I do.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: The Killer Thriller podcast. Yes. And I was scrolling through
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: the episodes the other day, and I'm like... The Botafocos,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: let's talk. Can you believe? Oh, everybody in our age group,
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: we know the Amy Jo Botafoco.
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: And I grew up on Long Island, 30 minutes from there.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: I was living in Manhattan at the time, but my
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: family was still on Long Island. So I, like, recognized
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: those voices, that clothing, the hair, the accents, like, all
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: of it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: Oh, my God.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: So this show, it's a true crime podcast. Yep. But
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: it's through the lens of the narratives, the films, the
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: TV shows that are created about these crimes. So the first,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: my first guests were Mandy Matney and Liz Farrell, who
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: were the journalists who created the podcast for the Murdoch
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: murders and they basically broke the case open. So Mandy
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: was one of the executive producers of the series with
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Jason Clark and Patricia Arquette. So we're talking about how
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: do you bring these things to life with authenticity, with grace,
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: with humanity. And it's really about talking about the human
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: condition and how, and human behavior and how do we,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: how do we get to these places and why are
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: we so interested in them? You know, why are we so...
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: obsessed with these things.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: And how it just took, it just grew to such
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: popularity in the last few years. And that's depressing and
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: intriguing at the same time. Yeah. But I'm in, I'm
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: a fan. I've been a fan. I am so grateful
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: that you came on here. You shared your history and
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: your story because we fell in love with you long ago.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: So to be able to have this very real conversation
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: about who you are and where you are as a
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: woman at this stage in your life, is a gift.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: So thank you.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Oh, it feels super special to me. And I'm so
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: excited for you for this. This is like a great,
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: you're just a great human. You're a great conversationalist. You
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: have so much to share and to say. And I
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: think this is an excellent gift. Way to do it.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Thank you. I appreciate you. Congrats. I appreciate you. How
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: hard can it be? With Diana Maria Riva is a
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: Hyphenate Media Group production in partnership with iHeart's My Cultura
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: podcast network. For more of your favorite shows, visit the
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.