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Accused Serial Killer Rex Heuerman's Flirty Nickname · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Rex Hereman.
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Speaker 2: The name will live forever in infamy, along names like
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Speaker 2: Ted Bundy, BTK, buying, torture, kill, Dennis Raider, Timothy McVeigh,
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Speaker 2: Charles Manson.
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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, I could go on.
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Speaker 2: Rex Hereman, the alleged Long Island serial killer awaiting trial.
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Speaker 2: We know what he did to his victims, horrific, horrific
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Speaker 2: murderers after horrific, horrific sex torture while his wife and
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Speaker 2: children were out of town in a basement dungeon, then
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Speaker 2: burying them so he could look at their graves every
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Speaker 2: day when he went to work on Long Island.
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Speaker 1: There at Gilgo Beach Star Wars, we find out about
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Speaker 1: a whole other side of Rex Hewerman.
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Speaker 2: And that is Tonight's Friday Night Special and it is
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Speaker 2: very very special. Oh Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
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Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us. Rex Heureerman.
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Speaker 2: Cops say he is the Long Island serial killer. I
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Speaker 2: believe he can be connected and will be connected to
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Speaker 2: many many.
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Speaker 1: Other dead bodies.
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Speaker 2: But for tonight, for our Friday Night Special, we learned
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Speaker 2: Rex Huerman was the quote I hope you're sitting down
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Speaker 2: the quote perfect coworker and the quote life of the
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Speaker 2: party at work get togethers, the life of the party.
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Speaker 2: We also learn Rex Hewerman, the serial killer, had a
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Speaker 2: quote sexy nickname. Okay, Rex Hereman had a quote sexy nickname.
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Speaker 1: Okay, nothing is sexy about this guy.
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Speaker 2: If you look at the faces of all the women
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Speaker 2: he allegedly murdered one, two, three, four, five, I mean
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Speaker 2: on and on and on, including a child, a child, five, six, seven, eight,
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Speaker 2: and counting all these women dead at the hands of
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Speaker 2: Rex Hureman. And somebody gave him a sexy nickname and
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Speaker 2: says he was the life of the party at work,
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Speaker 2: get togethers, drinking beer, cracking jokes with colleagues. According to
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Speaker 2: a witness, he seemed like any other coworker on a
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Speaker 2: night out after a busy day at his Manhattan architect's office.
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Speaker 1: Little did they know.
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Speaker 2: Once he leaves the bar and heads back to Long Island,
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Speaker 2: he goes all jekyl and hide, prowling for his next
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Speaker 2: victim to murder, as his wife and children went out
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Speaker 2: of town or.
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Speaker 1: Just simply slept.
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Speaker 2: Now. According to this witness, Catherine Shepherd, she worked with
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Speaker 2: Hureman in the same Manhattan office. There on Seventh Avenue
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Speaker 2: in New York City's Fashion District. She was working for
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Speaker 2: an architectural design firm and his company was providing city permits.
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Speaker 2: She and her co workers would gather at a place
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Speaker 2: called Pete's Tavern in Gramercy Park. She remembers human as
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Speaker 2: the life of the party, which.
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Speaker 1: Got him the nickname.
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Speaker 2: Okay, I feel the vomit coming up right now got
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Speaker 2: him the nickname. Of course, we should have seen this coming.
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Speaker 3: Sexy rexy, sexy, rexy quote.
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Speaker 2: He was fun He was funny. He would tell funny
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Speaker 2: stories and jokes that made everyone laugh. Okay, that was
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Speaker 2: her experience with him. What do we know about what
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Speaker 2: Hureman did? Allegedly after hours in the midst of a
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Speaker 2: new body being found just minutes from Hureman's home. Now
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Speaker 2: four witnesses, seemingly impartial witnesses come forward identifying Rex Humorman.
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Speaker 1: First of all, take a listen to this.
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Speaker 4: Human remains have been found in a wooded area not
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Speaker 4: more than a thirty minute drive from suspected gilg Beat
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Speaker 4: serial killers Rex Hureman's home. The body, identified as twenty
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Speaker 4: year old you Nelly rainmods Moreno, was discovered in Sunken
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Speaker 4: Meadows Date Park on Long Island by park goers. The
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Speaker 4: remains were along a trail at the eastern end of
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Speaker 4: the park, which runs along Long Islands north shore. At
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Speaker 4: least six victims of the Long Island serial killer have
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Speaker 4: been found on Gilgo Beach, which is along Long Islands
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Speaker 4: south shore. Reno's death has been ruled a homicide.
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Speaker 2: Interesting this is a young male victim, Janelli Moreno, discovered
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Speaker 2: in Sunken Meadow State Park just minutes away from Rex
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Speaker 2: Huerman's home. But it's my understanding that this is a
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Speaker 2: more recent killing or is it? Will it somehow be
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Speaker 2: connected to Rex Hueerman. It's just minutes from his home.
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Speaker 2: We know he's implicated in the murders of many other
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Speaker 2: young women and possibly one Asian male found near those
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Speaker 2: female dead bodies, But in.
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Speaker 1: The midst of investigating.
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Speaker 2: A new dead body near Rex Human's home, four witnesses
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Speaker 2: have now emerged. Listened to the Gilbert family lawyer Attorney
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Speaker 2: John Ray.
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Speaker 5: This is a witness who has every reason to have
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Speaker 5: no bias, no interest in the case whatsoever. She is
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Speaker 5: not a sex worker and instead, back in the nineties.
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Speaker 5: In the nineteen nineties, she was what is known then
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Speaker 5: and now as a swinger, and they would go to
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Speaker 5: certain sex clubs in New York City where they would
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Speaker 5: switch partners with other people of like kind. One of
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Speaker 5: the most important places that they would go was called
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Speaker 5: La Trapeze on West twenty seventh Street in New York,
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Speaker 5: right near.
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Speaker 6: Rex Huerman's office.
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Speaker 2: Okay, this is significant because this club, La Trapeze is
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Speaker 2: very close to Rex Hureerman's architectural office in Manhattan. And
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Speaker 2: we know that a lot of the activity that is
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Speaker 2: linking Hureman back to the dead women the sex workers
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Speaker 2: occur at his office. Membery's wife children are living in
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Speaker 2: their home on Long Island. He catches very off of
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Speaker 2: the Long Island railroad right there at Penn Station near
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Speaker 2: his office to go home, back and forth.
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Speaker 1: And it's that hub, isn't it? Joining me an all
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Speaker 1: star panel?
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Speaker 2: But first to Mary Murphy, investigative reporter pix Pigs eleven,
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Speaker 2: also host of Hunt Inside, the thirteen year search for
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Speaker 2: the Gilgo Beach Killer and needless to say, a recipient
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Speaker 2: of many Emmy Awards. Mary, a lot of the cell
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Speaker 2: phone pings, a lot of the positioning of the suspect
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Speaker 2: of Long Island serial killer Rex Hureman happened around his office.
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Speaker 2: Even the pizza that was discarded, the food and drink
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Speaker 2: that was later used to get DNA wasn't near his office.
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Speaker 1: He was arrested near his office.
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Speaker 2: Law Trapeze is near his office, so obviously, if you
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Speaker 2: look at his activity psychologically, he uses his office as
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Speaker 2: basically his batcave.
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Speaker 7: That's a good way of putting it. There was a
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Speaker 7: box of cell phone pings located right near his office,
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Speaker 7: right near Penn Station. And some of the victims who
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Speaker 7: were killed in a Gilgo Beach case their cell phones
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Speaker 7: pinged near Penn Station and very close to his office.
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Speaker 7: And we're told that one of the victims whose names
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Speaker 7: emerged after his arrest, Karen Bergatta, that she was a
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Speaker 7: street walker in midtown.
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Speaker 2: So regarding the newest the newest thing, this witness that
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Speaker 2: comes forward, who goes to a swingers club where you
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Speaker 2: know you swat partners La Trapeze on West twenty seven,
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Speaker 2: how close is that to Huerman's Manhattan architectural office.
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Speaker 7: I would say it's only about seven or eight blocks away.
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Speaker 2: Guys, that is maybe a ten minute walk. Maybe if
9:14
Speaker 2: you're catching red lights a ten minute walk from his office.
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Speaker 2: His office is often the hub of his activity. Joining
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Speaker 2: me Also in addition to Mary Murphy, investigative reporter of
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Speaker 2: pix E eleven, Robin Drake joining us out of Virginia,
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Speaker 2: behavioral expert, former FBI Special Agent in Chief of the
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Speaker 2: FBI counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, and I love this book.
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Speaker 2: His book is Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI agent's
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Speaker 2: manual for behavior prediction.
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Speaker 1: Man.
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Speaker 2: We need you now, Drake, because you can put words
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Speaker 2: to what I'm trying to express. Let's go with Scott Peterson.
9:56
Speaker 2: Scott Peterson kill Lacy his wife. We believe in their
10:00
Speaker 2: home on Covena in Modesto, that was his layer. What
10:07
Speaker 2: was his other layer, his office which had basically a
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Speaker 2: storage area where he kept his secret boat, where he
10:13
Speaker 2: made cement.
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Speaker 1: Let me just say waits. We believe to weigh her
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Speaker 1: body down.
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Speaker 2: What was his other layer where he would go fishing,
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Speaker 2: his fishing hole where her body was discovered and then
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Speaker 2: later found not far away when it came up from
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Speaker 2: the bottom of the water. I'm trying to verbalize that
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Speaker 2: killers use the area with which they are familiar. You
10:45
Speaker 2: want to get rid of a dead body. Think about it.
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Speaker 2: Everybody on the palle thing, where would you go to
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Speaker 2: get rid of a dead body? You know where I
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Speaker 2: would go? Seven bridges in South Bibb County. It swamp
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Speaker 2: and there's seven bridges that go over it to link
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Speaker 2: South bib County to the city of Macon. Why because
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Speaker 2: I know where it is. How can you get rid
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Speaker 2: of a dead body and a place you've never heard of?
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Speaker 2: Explain what I'm saying, Drake, because I believe his hub
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Speaker 2: of activity is going to be not just his home
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Speaker 2: in Long Island at Gilgo Beach where bodies were disposed of.
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Speaker 1: His office right by this nightclub.
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Speaker 8: YEA, one hundred percent Nancy. And it comes down to
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Speaker 8: what you said, feeling comfortable and creating what he's established
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Speaker 8: as a behavior arc of what where he feels safe
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Speaker 8: operating because he's got reps in those areas and when
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Speaker 8: we're dumping bodies in places, also when you're doing it,
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Speaker 8: you've got to feel safe in that area with a
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Speaker 8: law enforcement that area.
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Speaker 9: So I think a lot of these things are.
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Speaker 8: Actually putting a bigger point on law enforcement and what
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Speaker 8: they saw and didn't see in questions there. When it
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Speaker 8: comes to the investigation. So yeah, he's clearly displayed to
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Speaker 8: this behavior arc of feeling safe operating in a secretive
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Speaker 8: way from public view.
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Speaker 2: You are hearing high profile lawyer John Ray. He is
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Speaker 2: representing the family of Shannon and Gilbert. Now you remember
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Speaker 2: Shannon Gilbert whose body was found out on gilgo At first,
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Speaker 2: everybody said, well.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's not really connected. This is just a coincidence.
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Speaker 2: Who could buy that her body is near all the
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Speaker 2: other women's bodies that are connected to hereman and she
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Speaker 2: just happened to be dead right there. Okay, Now entering
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Speaker 2: law trapeze, the bar for swingers, what does that have
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Speaker 2: to do with Huerman?
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Speaker 5: Listen, Sometimes several hundred people at a time would be
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Speaker 5: involved in this place. It's heyday was right at the
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Speaker 5: time that Karen Vurgatta is involved in this case. In
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Speaker 5: this situation, this particular woman was dating a police officer
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Speaker 5: for New York City who was a narcotics a detective,
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Speaker 5: and they would go to these switchy clubs, these swapping clubs.
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Speaker 5: At or about Valentine's Day of nineteen ninety six, the
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Speaker 5: couple went to Latropize and I think it was on
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Speaker 5: the wall at Latropez where an advertisement was placed to
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Speaker 5: go to a house in Massapequa Park for partying, for switching,
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Speaker 5: for swapping, And isn't a shay.
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Speaker 2: Mary Murphy that that is where Rix Huerman lived with
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Speaker 2: his wife.
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Speaker 7: Yes, Rex Chuerman lived, Barren actually was raised there. He
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Speaker 7: spent his whole life in Massapeople Park.
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Speaker 2: Okay, so this witness who was a swinger goes to
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Speaker 2: Wa Trapeze.
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Speaker 1: So what wait for it?
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Speaker 5: Listen, she went with her boyfriend out to Long Island,
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Speaker 5: but before they went, her boyfriend picked up a woman
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Speaker 5: in New York in the city and she was a
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Speaker 5: sex worker. They went to Massapequa Park. They ended up
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Speaker 5: going to rex Hureman's house. In the house was the
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Speaker 5: wife of Rex Huremen and Rex Yuremen and the other girl.
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Speaker 5: The other girl who we believe to be Karen Vergata.
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Speaker 5: She this girl disappears downstairs at the house. Rex Yureman
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Speaker 5: disappears and according to our witness and other witnesses, when
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Speaker 5: men are swingers, very often.
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Speaker 6: They switch sexually.
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Speaker 5: They go back and forth between male and female, and.
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Speaker 6: So Yurman.
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Speaker 5: Leaves the main floor and disappears either into another bedroom
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Speaker 5: or downstairs. The witness talks to Rex's wife.
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Speaker 2: Okay, whoa we're hearing all The wife knew nothing about
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Speaker 2: what was going on. But according to this witness, who
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Speaker 2: is not a sex worker, wasn't getting paid by anybody,
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Speaker 2: wasn't answering to John says that Rex Hueman's wife was
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Speaker 2: part of this.
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Speaker 1: Guys, this is a bombshell in this case. Listen.
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Speaker 5: As they're leaving, the witness points out that she could
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Speaker 5: see in the window looking out the girl that had
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Speaker 5: come with them, and she says to her driver, her partner,
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Speaker 5: what are we doing? Are we're taking her? And the
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Speaker 5: partner says, don't worry, they're just playing a game. She stays,
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Speaker 5: there no problem with that.
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Speaker 6: The girl runs out of the house naked and is running.
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Speaker 5: In front of the garage, and now the witness says, hey,
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Speaker 5: we'd be taking her. Something's wrong here, and the driver
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Speaker 5: tells her no, they're just playing a game.
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Speaker 6: Leave it, and they leave.
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Speaker 1: They leave the girl there.
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Speaker 2: We're talking about Karen Virgatta, one of the dead women.
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Speaker 1: And this is how it ends. Listen.
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Speaker 5: She never hears about the incident again. She distinctly remembers Urman.
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Speaker 5: She also had intercourse with Urreman that same day on TV,
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Speaker 5: she sees the picture of Karen Vagatta and she recognizes
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Speaker 5: her and said, that's her, and she recognizes Rex Yuoman.
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Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, sexy rexy. I would laugh,
16:54
Speaker 1: but I know.
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Speaker 2: The condition in which these bodies were found. There's nothing
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Speaker 2: sexy about this guy. The life of the party, my
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Speaker 2: rear end. Sexy, rexy, fun funny, funny stories, jokes.
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Speaker 1: Everybody laughed.
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Speaker 2: Now, according to the witness, at work, he was always
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Speaker 2: professional towards her and the other women that work there.
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Speaker 2: She goes on to say, while he was professional at work,
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Speaker 2: Hureman loved pretty girls in the office, using them professionally.
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Speaker 2: He was extremely skilled. He knew how to work the
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Speaker 2: system to get permits. He was renowned for that. He
17:31
Speaker 2: knew all the.
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Speaker 1: People that provide permits.
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Speaker 2: He had relationships with all of them. But what do
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Speaker 2: we know about Humman after work hours?
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Speaker 1: John Ray, thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 9: Thank you.
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Speaker 1: Wow. This is a huge.
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Speaker 2: Bombshell in the Rex Human case, because before I was thinking,
17:49
Speaker 2: you know, John, You've tried a lot of cases, and
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Speaker 2: I love nothing more than DNA deoxaribo nucleic acid.
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Speaker 1: Which we have in this case. I don't have much of it,
18:01
Speaker 1: but we.
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Speaker 2: Have it, and we have the wife's hair on some
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Speaker 2: connected to some of the dead bodies. We've got the defendant,
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Speaker 2: Rex Huerman's hair connected to some of the bodies. But DNA,
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Speaker 2: as you well know, can be argued away that it
18:23
Speaker 2: was a transfer, that it was an accident.
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Speaker 1: That blah blah blah blah.
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Speaker 2: But when you combine DNA with an eyewitness, it says
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Speaker 2: I had sex with humormen. I know what he looks like,
18:37
Speaker 2: and I left caring for God, and God helped me
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Speaker 2: there that night, and she was never seen alive again.
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Speaker 2: A witness willing to come forward and say I was
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Speaker 2: a swinger and wants to admit that on the stand,
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Speaker 2: ready to say that on the stand. To me, you
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Speaker 2: know when you have to put the devil in jail.
18:56
Speaker 2: Sometimes you got to go to hell to get your witness.
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Speaker 2: Who do you think human's hanging out with nuns and
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Speaker 2: priests and virgins? Now, that to me gives this witness,
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Speaker 2: your witness more credibility.
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Speaker 9: Genre Well, you should also know that it's odd why
19:13
Speaker 9: they brought Karen with them if it was going to
19:16
Speaker 9: be swapping between couples, and that now is explained fully
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Speaker 9: and consistently through Missus Ellerp's lawyer, Robert Macedonio. He went
19:29
Speaker 9: on television recently and said that there's no way that
19:33
Speaker 9: John Ray's witness can be correct because because his client,
19:38
Speaker 9: missus Ella Horyeman's wife was pregnant at the time, so
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Speaker 9: she would never have had sex. And that's perfectly First
19:47
Speaker 9: of all, we know you can have sex if you're pregnant.
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Speaker 2: But okay, hold on, Johenrey, I got to write this down.
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Speaker 1: This is significant. Hold on. So you're saying it's a
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Speaker 1: couple swinging parties.
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Speaker 2: How do you bring a sex worker with you when
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Speaker 2: the women are going to be swinging in the men?
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Speaker 2: I don't need a fifth will right, But you're saying
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Speaker 2: el was pregnant at the time and they needed that
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Speaker 2: extra female.
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Speaker 1: Am I getting this right?
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Speaker 9: You are? But more importantly it comes from the horse's mouth.
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Speaker 9: It's Macedonio, who's the lawyer for Missus Ellerup, who posits that,
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Speaker 9: who states that on national television, And so we also
20:26
Speaker 9: have that fact consistent with the witness coming forward and
20:31
Speaker 9: saying that when she got there, Missus Elrop did not
20:36
Speaker 9: want to have sex and had turned away the witness
20:40
Speaker 9: thought it was because the witness was African American, but
20:43
Speaker 9: it turns out Macedonia gave us the correct explanation, which
20:47
Speaker 9: is that she was pregnant and didn't want to have sex.
20:49
Speaker 9: And by the way, that also explains why they picked
20:53
Speaker 9: up Karen ber got her in the first place to
20:56
Speaker 9: bring her along to be the partner. We couldn't figure
21:00
Speaker 9: that out before we knew that about the pregnancy. So
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Speaker 9: it's also very likely that the detective Swapper who was
21:10
Speaker 9: driving the car to go there, previously knew Hoyaman that
21:15
Speaker 9: they already had a relationship.
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Speaker 2: You mean as Zen had swap partners before. Yes, okay,
21:21
Speaker 2: hold on, John Ray, I'm not going to ask you
21:24
Speaker 2: the name, but do you know who the cop is?
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Speaker 9: I do.
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Speaker 2: It's not out there yet, right correct, Well, he better
21:33
Speaker 2: expect a big fat subpoena coming his way, and I
21:35
Speaker 2: ain't gonna stay quiet for long. Guys with me is
21:38
Speaker 2: John Ray the lawyer for Shannon Gilbert's family, And now
21:44
Speaker 2: you see why he has interviewed this woman who was
21:47
Speaker 2: not a sex worker, who has come forward and.
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Speaker 1: Admitted, yeah, I was a swinger.
21:54
Speaker 2: I went to Lot Trapezese Club, a lot of swingers
21:56
Speaker 2: go there when y'all went to a party in Massapequa,
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Speaker 2: and this is what happened.
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Speaker 1: I slept, I had sex with Hureman.
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Speaker 2: That's like eating a dirt sandwich to have to admit that,
22:08
Speaker 2: But in my mind that adds to her credibility. Doctor
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Speaker 2: Joni Johnson is with us very well known forensic psychologist
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Speaker 2: and private investigator. Doctor Johnson performs risk threat assessments on
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Speaker 2: violent offenders and she's the author of Serial Killer. As
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Speaker 2: one hundred one questions true crime fans ask. You can
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Speaker 2: find doctor Johnson at doctor Joni Johnson dot com. Doctor Johnson,
22:37
Speaker 2: let me give you a good example. Okay, just recently
22:41
Speaker 2: we hear from that poc Or van der Sloot and
22:46
Speaker 2: he gives his confession and I'm saying that with quotes.
22:50
Speaker 2: I'll believe one line on his confession, I kill Natalie.
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Speaker 2: The rest he fabricates to make himself look not as
22:57
Speaker 2: bad as he really is. He's the devil. Straight from help,
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Speaker 2: Doctor Joni. When you are assessing, as you do statements witnesses, defendants, victims,
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Speaker 2: to me, it enhances this witness's credibility that she puts
23:18
Speaker 2: it out there. She's not holding back, She's not lying.
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Speaker 2: I was a swinger. I went to this club, I
23:25
Speaker 2: went to this swinger's party in mass Speaker, I slept
23:28
Speaker 2: with Rex.
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Speaker 1: Hereman, and I left Kieren for God of there. What
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Speaker 1: do you make of it?
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Speaker 9: Absolutely?
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Speaker 10: Absolutely, I mean, when you were doing any kind of
23:36
Speaker 10: friends her legal investigation or assessment, you are evaluating the
23:41
Speaker 10: credibility of the witness, and that includes looking at things
23:43
Speaker 10: like what do they have to gain, what do they
23:45
Speaker 10: have to lose? Is the evidence consistent with what they're
23:48
Speaker 10: telling me? Are they willing to say things that might
23:51
Speaker 10: not put them in a favorable light? And all the
23:53
Speaker 10: things that you're talking about certainly indicate that this witness
23:56
Speaker 10: is willing to put herself in a light that other
23:59
Speaker 10: people might question or criticized. And so those are things
24:02
Speaker 10: that definitely add to her credibility.
24:04
Speaker 2: Guys, the bodies are piling up, They're all pointing towards
24:08
Speaker 2: Reck's Huremen and now four witnesses emerging. And I'll deal
24:12
Speaker 2: with the new discovery of another dead body there at
24:17
Speaker 2: Sunken Meadow State Park just minutes from Hureman's home in
24:20
Speaker 2: just a moment. I'm gonna circle back to that. But
24:22
Speaker 2: these four witnesses. I can't tell you how important this
24:25
Speaker 2: is to the Long Island serial killer case.
24:29
Speaker 1: DNA.
24:30
Speaker 2: While its validity is hard to attack, its placement can
24:34
Speaker 2: sometimes be very easy attacked. Do I have to say,
24:37
Speaker 2: O J. Simpson, Oh, Jackie, is her head just spun around?
24:41
Speaker 1: I have to say, O J. Simpson?
24:43
Speaker 2: And this is why his bloody sucks with the victim's
24:48
Speaker 2: blood on them. We're in his home after his wife
24:55
Speaker 2: and Ron Goleman were found murdered. But it was artfully
25:02
Speaker 2: argued at trial that the DNA had been planted and placed.
25:06
Speaker 1: Do I believe that?
25:07
Speaker 7: No?
25:07
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. Was it?
25:09
Speaker 2: Successfully argued, Yes, it was the placement of the DNA.
25:13
Speaker 2: Why was it there? And it Drey believed it. So
25:16
Speaker 2: while you can't really argue with the validity of DNA,
25:19
Speaker 2: you can't argue with was it contaminated? Was there a
25:23
Speaker 2: mistake at the crime scene, at the crime scene or
25:25
Speaker 2: the crime lab? Was it planned? Just so many ways
25:28
Speaker 2: you can attack its placement. These eyewitnesses make all the
25:35
Speaker 2: difference in this case. We only know about a few
25:39
Speaker 2: of the victims. How many more women have been murdered
25:43
Speaker 2: by Rex Human And now let's get to it without
25:46
Speaker 2: any further pontificating on my part. Take a listen again
25:51
Speaker 2: to our friend John Ray, witness number two.
25:56
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut to eighteen.
25:59
Speaker 5: The second win who's come forward. This woman, she's not
26:05
Speaker 5: involved in any sexual activities whatsoever. She has nothing to
26:09
Speaker 5: gain by coming forward. She's not looking for a book
26:12
Speaker 5: or money or the usual things that you're hearing about
26:16
Speaker 5: out there, none of that. But she came forward because
26:19
Speaker 5: she's very disturbed about what she knows. After she also
26:23
Speaker 5: saw Rex Roomen on television and Shannon Gilbert, and here's
26:29
Speaker 5: her story. She is a banker by day and at
26:36
Speaker 5: night she worked extra in Suffolk County as a taxi
26:40
Speaker 5: driver to take care of her family with a one
26:43
Speaker 5: parent family. And as a taxi driver, she is called
26:48
Speaker 5: from her dispatcher to go to the Sayville Motor Lodge
26:52
Speaker 5: on Sunrise Highway and there's a girl awaiting her who's
26:57
Speaker 5: locked in a bathroom and will come out if she
27:00
Speaker 5: flashes her lights and beeps the horn. And she goes
27:04
Speaker 5: there and does that several times. It doesn't work, but
27:07
Speaker 5: then suddenly a giant man who fits the description of
27:12
Speaker 5: Rex Huerman comes out and he's covering his face with
27:15
Speaker 5: his arms so he can't be seen, and he runs
27:19
Speaker 5: to a van or an.
27:22
Speaker 6: Suv right nearby that's parked right there.
27:25
Speaker 1: Okay, so bank day taxi driver. At night, she goes
27:33
Speaker 1: to a pickup.
27:34
Speaker 2: It's at the Sable Motor Lawn on Sunrise Highway, and
27:39
Speaker 2: this is what happens.
27:40
Speaker 5: She continues to flash her lights and beep her horn
27:42
Speaker 5: and out comes a girl crying, shaking, very upset, and
27:46
Speaker 5: gets in her car. There they talk for a while
27:49
Speaker 5: and then eventually they drive to the Ronkunama Railroad station
27:52
Speaker 5: so that this girl can go back in to New
27:55
Speaker 5: York City. This girl was a sex worker who was
27:58
Speaker 5: servicing the big Man, and this girl turns out to
28:01
Speaker 5: be Shannon Gilbert. Now Shannon is lured into doing this
28:05
Speaker 5: particular tryst, and she's given an envelope or shown an
28:09
Speaker 5: envelope by the man that looked like it was stuff
28:12
Speaker 5: full of money, and he tells her there's one thousand
28:14
Speaker 5: dollars in there. It's for you and your family no
28:16
Speaker 5: matter what happens tonight. She looks into the envelope when
28:19
Speaker 5: he goes to the bathroom and it's stuffed with paper
28:22
Speaker 5: and so she panics and realizes something's wrong, so she
28:25
Speaker 5: goes in the bathroom and he had become very aggressive,
28:29
Speaker 5: very angry. She goes in the bathroom, locks the door,
28:31
Speaker 5: and calls to get a cab, and that's how she
28:33
Speaker 5: comes out.
28:34
Speaker 6: They speak for over an.
28:35
Speaker 5: Hour, so the driver knows her well and notices that
28:40
Speaker 5: she has a drooping eye, which is characteristic of Shannon
28:44
Speaker 5: and also a characteristic of her family. By the way,
28:47
Speaker 5: going back for a generation or two.
28:51
Speaker 2: To John Ray, the chosen lawyer for Shannon Gilbert's family,
28:57
Speaker 2: and we're talking about Shannon Gilbert. Remember all along, she
29:03
Speaker 2: was the first body that was found, but authorities kept saying, yes,
29:07
Speaker 2: she's not connected, she's not connected. Well, apparently she is connected,
29:13
Speaker 2: because this cab driver distinctly remembers peeking Shannon from being
29:21
Speaker 2: with Rex Hureman right down to the drooping eye. To
29:26
Speaker 2: doctor Kendall Crown's joining me chief medical Examiner Terran County
29:29
Speaker 2: Fort Worth. Never Ala like a business there, dtr Crown's.
29:33
Speaker 3: Lecturer, University of Texas Austin and TCU Texas Christian University
29:38
Speaker 3: Medical School. Patosis refers to a drooping eyelid. It means
29:43
Speaker 3: the upper eyelid falls to a position lower than the other.
29:48
Speaker 3: Is that genetic doctor Kendall Crowns.
29:50
Speaker 11: It can have a genetic component to it. It can
29:54
Speaker 11: also be associated with trauma and medical conditions in which
29:59
Speaker 11: the in her own neurological system was compromised, like in
30:03
Speaker 11: the struggle.
30:04
Speaker 2: John Ray, high profile lawyer for the family of Shannon Gilbert.
30:10
Speaker 2: You're saying that Shannon's family in the past also had
30:14
Speaker 2: the drooping eyelid.
30:16
Speaker 6: Yes.
30:17
Speaker 9: I checked with the sister Shari and she mentioned that.
30:22
Speaker 9: So it was very consistent with the taxi driver's description.
30:27
Speaker 9: And there's no likelihood that the taxicab driver saw that
30:33
Speaker 9: drooping lid from a picture you know, recent pictures, say,
30:37
Speaker 9: posted on television. But it's possible, I suppose. But we
30:42
Speaker 9: also I also vetted this woman and Rodney Harrison, the
30:47
Speaker 9: police Commissioner of Suffolk County himself, sat with me for
30:50
Speaker 9: almost two hours vetting this woman's credibility as well. We
30:55
Speaker 9: did it together after I had already done it myself.
30:58
Speaker 9: So she's eminently qualified as a witness and a credible one.
31:03
Speaker 9: And her description fits shadd into a tee even to
31:07
Speaker 9: the pulled back hair for the you know, sex workers
31:10
Speaker 9: very often wear wigs, and Shaddon was very much a
31:15
Speaker 9: user of wigs. So here she is coming out with
31:18
Speaker 9: her hair pulled back exactly as it would have been
31:21
Speaker 9: had she had a wig. So you know, everything about
31:26
Speaker 9: that this woman said was credible.
31:28
Speaker 2: John Ray, I've been carefully going over literally dozens of
31:34
Speaker 2: photos of Shannon Gilbert, and what I noticed is that
31:38
Speaker 2: very often she wears her hair in bangs that almost
31:42
Speaker 2: cover one eye. And when I first saw.
31:46
Speaker 1: That, I thought it was just the style.
31:48
Speaker 2: Now I realize she may have been covering up or
31:50
Speaker 2: trying to cover up the drooping eyelid, because you know,
31:55
Speaker 2: people often try to do their best to cover up
31:58
Speaker 2: what they perceive to be and imperfection. Also, I've seen
32:03
Speaker 2: her in many different and very very different hairstyles, and
32:09
Speaker 2: it's got to be wigs. I mean, in some of
32:11
Speaker 2: them she has like her hair her head is full
32:15
Speaker 2: of ringlets, and.
32:16
Speaker 1: Others it's completely different.
32:19
Speaker 2: I mean, clearly she's wearing wigs, like you say, and
32:22
Speaker 2: that after prosecuting a lot of cases involving sex workers,
32:27
Speaker 2: I wasn't prosecuting them. They were typically witnesses in cases.
32:30
Speaker 2: For me. Anyway, wigs are part of the costume and
32:35
Speaker 2: they're utilized on a daily basis. So now we finally
32:40
Speaker 2: get the Humman connection to Shannon Gilbert, I mean John
32:46
Speaker 2: ray all along when authorities are saying there's no connection.
32:50
Speaker 2: She just happens to be dead along beside Rex Huerman's
32:54
Speaker 2: other victims. Did you ever buy that it was?
32:58
Speaker 9: The theory that the police espouse from the beginning was
33:02
Speaker 9: reduced to absurdity and it still is. There isn't this
33:06
Speaker 9: sintilla of evidence that Shannon died other than by murder.
33:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, the theory that she got upset with.
33:12
Speaker 2: A different John and wandered out into the marsh and died,
33:18
Speaker 2: that died of what There was never any None of
33:22
Speaker 2: that ever made sense. And remember they couldn't find her
33:25
Speaker 2: body when they were looking for her out in the marsh.
33:29
Speaker 2: Was she just disappeared? None of that made any sense.
33:33
Speaker 2: So that's two of the four witnesses. And doctor Kendall
33:37
Speaker 2: Crown's question to you, you've dealt with literally thousands of
33:41
Speaker 2: autopsies when you're dealing with a serial killer. Here we
33:46
Speaker 2: see not only the same modus operandi method of operation
33:50
Speaker 2: of disposing of the bodies, that we see the same
33:53
Speaker 2: type of manner of death. Cause of death is that
34:00
Speaker 2: significant when you're trying to identify the perp.
34:04
Speaker 11: The manner of death, so the manner of death can
34:07
Speaker 11: be is homicide accent natural suicide. Cause of death is
34:13
Speaker 11: probably what you're more referring to. Yes, Usually with causes
34:18
Speaker 11: of death. With serial killers, they do like to follow
34:22
Speaker 11: the same pattern. They kind of have a routine, so
34:25
Speaker 11: you will see similar methods of killing an individual, similar
34:29
Speaker 11: method of binding. As far as identifying of them, you
34:35
Speaker 11: can cluster the cases together, possibly get DNA from them,
34:39
Speaker 11: but you can't get people to copy do copycat killings
34:44
Speaker 11: as well, so it doesn't necessarily identify them based on
34:48
Speaker 11: how they do it.
34:49
Speaker 2: Is the next witness take us an hour to two eight.
34:52
Speaker 5: The fourth witness comes from another state. She was a
34:56
Speaker 5: sex worker for many years. She said that he would
35:00
Speaker 5: service rex hurolmen over twenty times and that he would
35:04
Speaker 5: he was a serial user of sex workers. He would
35:08
Speaker 5: sometimes have him come two at a time to his
35:11
Speaker 5: house and his wife was home upstairs, and in one
35:14
Speaker 5: instance got very angry at one of the sex workers
35:18
Speaker 5: because the wife believed that the worker had stolen an
35:22
Speaker 5: iron from you know, for ironing clothes and had had
35:25
Speaker 5: it in the car with the driver, so the driver
35:28
Speaker 5: had to get out, everybody had to search the car.
35:29
Speaker 5: There was no iron, but the wife knew about it
35:33
Speaker 5: and knew about obviously what was going on in order for.
35:35
Speaker 6: That to happen.
35:36
Speaker 1: Wow and last, take a listener for insic Crime online.
35:39
Speaker 12: The wife of Rex Huwerman has not been accused of
35:42
Speaker 12: any wrongdoing by police. They've even gone so far as
35:44
Speaker 12: to say they believe she was out of town when
35:47
Speaker 12: the murders of the Gilgil four were committed. However, in
35:50
Speaker 12: an interview with the US Sun, attorney John Ray points
35:54
Speaker 12: out he doesn't see how it's possible to ignore or
35:57
Speaker 12: refuse to investigate Asa Eller up in light the purported
36:00
Speaker 12: evidence he has uncovered.
36:07
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
36:14
Speaker 2: Sexy Rexy, it actually is nauseating to even say that
36:19
Speaker 2: I'm talking about a legiterial killer. Rex Hureman arrested and
36:24
Speaker 2: initially charged with the murder of three women, Amber Costello,
36:28
Speaker 2: Melissa Bartolemy and Magan Watermen. Since then, he's been charged
36:33
Speaker 2: with the murders of four more, Marine Brainerd Barnes, Santra Caristia,
36:37
Speaker 2: Jessica Taylor, Valerie Mack. What do we know about the
36:41
Speaker 2: deaths of these beautiful women? We know their bodies were
36:45
Speaker 2: found dumped along Ocean Parkway near Gilgo Beach and other
36:49
Speaker 2: remote spots.
36:50
Speaker 1: On Long Island.
36:51
Speaker 2: Some were bound, some have been dismembered. There remains discarded
36:56
Speaker 2: in multiple locations. That doesn't have at all with the
37:01
Speaker 2: quote life of the party, sexy, rexy, does it?
37:05
Speaker 1: Does it well?
37:06
Speaker 2: Listen to these facts pix eleven, Mary, thank you for
37:10
Speaker 2: being with us again. Got two questions for you, and
37:13
Speaker 2: the first one is about Asa Ellaup, the wife of
37:17
Speaker 2: Rex Hureman. She has not been charged, she's not been
37:21
Speaker 2: named a person of interest, but many people have wondered
37:25
Speaker 2: how she could not know what was happening. That was
37:29
Speaker 2: explained away by the fact that many of Hueman's meetings
37:37
Speaker 2: with sex workers when she was out of town. This
37:40
Speaker 2: paints her in an entirely different light.
37:43
Speaker 7: We don't know what kind of relationship miss Elearet pad.
37:46
Speaker 9: With her husband.
37:47
Speaker 7: We don't know the level of their intimacy. I can
37:50
Speaker 7: just tell you that when this indictment was announced back
37:54
Speaker 7: in July, the District Attorney Rate Tyranny, took great pains
37:58
Speaker 7: to say he did not that the wife had any
38:02
Speaker 7: knowledge of what was going on, and even the police commissioner,
38:05
Speaker 7: Rodney Harrison, said he believed that rex Huwerman was living
38:09
Speaker 7: a double life. I believe anything's possible. Perhaps there were
38:14
Speaker 7: sex workers that went to the house, but from what
38:16
Speaker 7: I'm gathering from the top law enforcement people on the case,
38:21
Speaker 7: they did not think she had any involvement. I just
38:23
Speaker 7: wanted to mention a couple of things. Rodney Harrison, the
38:26
Speaker 7: former police commissioner, he was there for the vetting of
38:30
Speaker 7: the second witness that John Ray has met with, and
38:34
Speaker 7: while he said that he wanted to look at all
38:37
Speaker 7: of these witnesses, he didn't want to leave any stone unturned.
38:41
Speaker 7: It should be noted that he was very cautious. At
38:44
Speaker 7: John Ray's press conference. He didn't give up much information.
38:47
Speaker 7: He just said they would look at this information. And
38:52
Speaker 7: it was significant though that he was there with John Ray.
38:54
Speaker 7: I had never seen anything like that in my career.
38:58
Speaker 7: He actually left police heads to join John Ray at
39:02
Speaker 7: his private attorney's office.
39:04
Speaker 2: Well, I would not expect law enforcement to comment on
39:06
Speaker 2: potential witnesses at this juncture, but you're right, the fact
39:10
Speaker 2: that he's there with Ray when Ray is making the
39:13
Speaker 2: statements about four new witnesses, speaks volumes. He doesn't have
39:16
Speaker 2: to say anything for me to see that he's standing
39:20
Speaker 2: there in solidarity with Ray. Also, we learned about another
39:25
Speaker 2: creepy I'm not through yet on these four witnesses, but
39:30
Speaker 2: another creepy fact has emerged. Take a listen hour cut
39:34
Speaker 2: two four two from investigative reporter Dave mack Rex.
39:37
Speaker 12: Huerman was so obsessed about showing off his hunting skills
39:40
Speaker 12: to a female colleague that he stalked her onto a
39:43
Speaker 12: cruise ship. Mirel Henriquez tells CBS forty eight Hours that
39:48
Speaker 12: Hureman asked her where she was going to be on
39:50
Speaker 12: her fortieth birthday cruise. She told him, I'm going to
39:53
Speaker 12: be in the middle of the ocean, and you're not
39:54
Speaker 12: going to be able to find me in the middle
39:56
Speaker 12: of the ocean. Heureerman told her, oh, yes, I can.
39:59
Speaker 12: On the second day of her birthday cruise, a white
40:02
Speaker 12: envelope was shoved under her cabin door. It was a
40:05
Speaker 12: note from Huerman. The note said, I told you I
40:08
Speaker 12: could find you anywhere.
40:09
Speaker 2: Okay, that's completely irrelevant to the trial on multiple murders,
40:16
Speaker 2: but wow, I wish a Juri could hear that, because
40:20
Speaker 2: it tells me volumes about rex Hueman himself. Mary Murphy,
40:25
Speaker 2: what is a significance of the Sable Motor Lodge where,
40:30
Speaker 2: according to one of these new witnesses she made a
40:33
Speaker 2: pickup connected to Hureman.
40:34
Speaker 7: The first thing that I thought of when I heard
40:36
Speaker 7: save Ill Motor Lodge was the fact that just recently
40:39
Speaker 7: the Fedge locked it down, shut it down for good,
40:43
Speaker 7: because it was the scene of major sex trafficking over
40:46
Speaker 7: the years. And so when the allegation was made that
40:51
Speaker 7: Shannon Gilbert was there and that she had allegedly met
40:55
Speaker 7: human there, I thought of all the human trafficking that
40:58
Speaker 7: was going on. Date John Ray in this Affidavid, which
41:03
Speaker 7: was a sworn Affidavid noted that it was around two
41:06
Speaker 7: thousand and nine in the fall. It would probably be
41:09
Speaker 7: September October two thousand and nine when this incident happened,
41:13
Speaker 7: and that was around the time earlier that summer that
41:16
Speaker 7: Melissa Barthelemy had disappeared. But she disappeared from the Bronx.
41:21
Speaker 7: She's one of the original Gilgo four found on Ocean
41:24
Speaker 7: Parkway in twenty ten. So it becomes an interesting part
41:28
Speaker 7: of the timeline. Melissa Barthelemy disappears in the summer of
41:33
Speaker 7: two thousand and nine, and then in September October two
41:36
Speaker 7: thousand and nine, this taxi driver allegedly saw a woman
41:39
Speaker 7: she identifies as Shannon Gilbert with Rex Huerman at the
41:43
Speaker 7: Sable Motor Lodge.
41:45
Speaker 2: Too John Ray, lawyer for the Shannon Gilbert family.
41:49
Speaker 1: In my mind, this is icing on the cake for
41:51
Speaker 1: the state.
41:52
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, I suppose you could say, Silvia, I just
41:56
Speaker 9: you know, you said that the missis Rikaz, the Huriman's secretary,
42:03
Speaker 9: that the issue on the ocean cruiselner was irrelevant. It's
42:06
Speaker 9: not actually Rex Heuerman. One of the items sees from
42:11
Speaker 9: him in the police inventory was survivalist equipment. Doctor Peter Hackett,
42:16
Speaker 9: who we have pinned as one of the people responsible
42:19
Speaker 9: for Shannon's death, ran a company called Survivalist Dynamic, and
42:25
Speaker 9: he ran it with a man who was a sea
42:26
Speaker 9: captain for cruise ships. And the chances that Packet and
42:33
Speaker 9: Huerman knew each other through the survivalist operation in Long
42:38
Speaker 9: Island are very strong. It's a very small group of people.
42:41
Speaker 9: They tend to connect with each other, meet with each other, etc.
42:44
Speaker 9: And it wouldn't surprise me if there was a connection.
42:46
Speaker 2: There might very well be a connection in everything regarding
42:49
Speaker 2: tracking her down on a cruise ship. Maybe true, But
42:52
Speaker 2: after all your years of trying cases, do you believe
42:55
Speaker 2: that evidence will come in a murder trial? Not yet, okay,
42:58
Speaker 2: And that is why it would be damed irrelevant in trial,
43:01
Speaker 2: not irrelevant to who Rex human is.
43:04
Speaker 1: That's why I.
43:06
Speaker 2: Played it because it tells me who he is, but
43:09
Speaker 2: it's not coming into trial because it has nothing to
43:11
Speaker 2: do with the victim. The Gilgo Beach victims tells me
43:14
Speaker 2: a lot about him, but a jury's never going to
43:17
Speaker 2: hear that.
43:17
Speaker 1: And I wish that they could doctor Joni Johnston joining
43:20
Speaker 1: me out of California. What do you make of what
43:22
Speaker 1: you've heard?
43:23
Speaker 10: Well, I think there's so many interesting parts of this,
43:25
Speaker 10: and I'd have to agree with you, Nancy that the
43:27
Speaker 10: whole issue of Rex Hureman tracking down one of his
43:31
Speaker 10: employees just to show her that he has the power
43:33
Speaker 10: to know where she is at all times, speaks of
43:36
Speaker 10: volumes about his pychology, and you know, one of the
43:40
Speaker 10: themes that has come up over and over in his
43:42
Speaker 10: case in people talking about Rex Huereerman and looking at
43:44
Speaker 10: some of the pornography he allegedly was looking at. Is
43:47
Speaker 10: this issue of satism and getting pleasure out of causing
43:51
Speaker 10: other people to comfort or pain and that is very
43:53
Speaker 10: consistent with that.
43:54
Speaker 2: Robin Drake, behavioral expert, former FBI special agent, what do
43:58
Speaker 2: you think?
43:59
Speaker 8: Yeah, I can agree more. He keeps the splay of
44:01
Speaker 8: very consistent arc of behavior of control ower sadism, and
44:06
Speaker 8: he targets and grooms fitting all the profiles as someone
44:11
Speaker 8: that would do this. All these witnesses coming forward though,
44:14
Speaker 8: really it's helping the prosecution. I believe, like it's been
44:17
Speaker 8: stated at the same time, though I keep coming back
44:19
Speaker 8: to we're seeing some law enforcement mishandling here as well.
44:23
Speaker 8: It really paints an interesting picture on what's been transpiring there.
44:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that is going to play into the defense
44:29
Speaker 2: because of the fact that there has been police misconduct
44:33
Speaker 2: in the distant past, but it was during these investigations.
44:36
Speaker 2: That's all they need to argue this DNA is irrelevant,
44:41
Speaker 2: is planted, is tainted.
44:43
Speaker 1: They're going to use that.
44:45
Speaker 2: And that's why these eyewitnesses that John Ray, high profile
44:49
Speaker 2: lawyers telling us about, become all the more significant because
44:53
Speaker 2: they corroborate the DNA Mary Murphy joining US Pixy eleven
44:59
Speaker 2: number one. The new body that has been found at
45:02
Speaker 2: Sunken Meadows is that of a young male and it's
45:08
Speaker 2: believed it was a recent murder. Hereman's in jail. He
45:13
Speaker 2: didn't do it, but you know, I think it's significant,
45:16
Speaker 2: Mary Murphy, because the defense can now argue, you see
45:20
Speaker 2: the killer still out there, it's not Heureerman. Can't you
45:24
Speaker 2: just see that unfolding in court?
45:26
Speaker 11: Mary Well.
45:26
Speaker 7: The first thing that I thought of when I heard
45:28
Speaker 7: about the body in Sunken Meadow State Park was Wow,
45:31
Speaker 7: could this be another victim? And you know I asked
45:35
Speaker 7: the police commissioner about that. He told me he did
45:38
Speaker 7: not think so.
45:39
Speaker 2: The so called perfect coworker and life of the party
45:42
Speaker 2: who got his own sexy nickname Sexy Rexy now Stance
45:49
Speaker 2: accused of multiple murders. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy
45:55
Speaker 2: Grace signing off Friday Night Special. I told you Special,
46:00
Speaker 2: you believe me.
46:03
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend.
46:08
Speaker 11: Mm hmm