Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / JJK and Victor react to Champions Cup thrashing!

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JJK and Victor react to Champions Cup thrashing! · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

0:00
What a performance by Bordone and the boss, I've always sought.
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I wonder if you take that whole team and play against all Black or Springbok or a Irish team.
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I think they can take on international teams.
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There are some really good super games on the weekend too, Ricardo.
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Last week you were calling for it to be ended and then we had a full house on the hell of a game.
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So, have you caught much flak?
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Everyone says other games in good spirit, the coach.
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I don't believe in it, so that's my opinion and I'll stand by.
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What about Big Ben Tamafuna?
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Shouldn't they try and get him back in New Zealand, right?
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What a impact every time he gets them to the field.
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We've got 660 players playing overseas, Victor.
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But we can't pick them, Victor, they're ruined our game down here.
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I mean, but is that the base for your national team?
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Is that the base for the players?
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Why can't they go earn the most money and still play for all Blacks?
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Right, welcome to Rivals, we've got Ceylon Kuhn and the world's biggest netball dead.
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Victor Matthew, that's a netball going, mate.
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Yes, we had a fantastic day yesterday.
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Yeah, it's so nice to sport your kids and I must have got a tough week this week.
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My little one, that is 12, he's playing two games.
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My middle one is playing two games and my oldest one is playing four games.
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So I'm all in to netball this week.
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Do you comment at all, Victor, like technically, do you do any coaching?
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I think I can.
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The amount of netball I'm watching probably shall put netball directly at the moment.
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But yeah, just love supporting the goals and my oldest one went through a bit of a tough time
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and yesterday should really bleed a wall, so I've shown up before it.
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That's good.
1:49
That's good.
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I was brought up on netball.
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My mum was a netball coach and I had three older sisters, but I asked you whether you
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coach because I went to watch my son.
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I agree with you.
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I think watching your kids play is amazing, but I went to watch my son, you know, he's
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doing rowing and I sort of said a couple of things that he said, Dad, the best thing
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for you to do is do the barbecue for the parents and don't say anything.
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That's the base, just be there.
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That's a good point.
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It's always good.
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Well, how did you pick Skull and the Champions Cup final?
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Yeah, I think last week I said I think we'll do us a team to beat and again, we spoke
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about the way they play.
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It must be a worry for Ireland as well.
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I mean, they just got dominated physically.
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I mean, we all talk about Lukku and Jalibeer and that backline of Gordo, but I think it was
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a forward back.
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If you look at the collisions, every collision Bordeaux were going forward, even on the fence,
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they were just stopping Lentz in a track.
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So what a performance part we're doing and the pass I've always thought because I mean,
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Lentz is a national team and a national team and I was always thinking, Jake and Jodi
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with that blue team that you have, we had that blue team that really did well and super
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rugby.
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And if you take that whole team and play against all Black or Springbok or Irish team, now
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we'll let go.
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And I think Bordeaux showed last night, if you've got a proper club team, knowing each other,
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I mean, it's just there, they just understand each other.
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I think they can take on international teams.
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That's why I love the rivals tour because I think getting back to, you know, some of
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the worst games you play when you're on tour.
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I remember playing Rannwick, you remember that one, Ricardo, we played Rannwick at 988,
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it was just like horrible, you're right because they were just a really good side.
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That was a club side, you don't want to lose, but I think that, you're right, I think
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when they get those combinations, they were so superior to Lentz, they got to be worried
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about that.
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And I saw the interviews after, I know they're going to probably try and have it go at
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colour, right, and get rid of it.
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Do you think there is a difference between, because that's a great season, making the
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finals, right, that's a great season, but making the finals four times and losing or five
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times what it is, do you think there is a difference at that level between getting there
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and winning, what do you just think it's like becomes psychological, because they were
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pretty average mate in that first half, so many errors, I mean, they sort of couldn't
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get any rhythm because they just could make a dummy error.
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Yeah, but I think it's because of the pressure.
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I mean, this is probably in the, what's it, five losses that they had now, I mean, all
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the others, they were favourites going into it.
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This year they won the favourites, Bordeaux was definitely the favourites, so the, I don't
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think the pressure was on them, they also wonder, you are sea lost here, they probably
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got that baggy little bit of their back.
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I just believe they could have played completely, they couldn't compete with Bordeaux, I mean,
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like I said, physically they couldn't stand up to them, and then, like we said, I mean,
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they must be talks as well now about how far behind the point is Luca.
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I mean, Luca is playing fantastic rugby and that combination with Jalibar just works.
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Just the way they play together, Luca gets, get them in the right areas, Jalibar, sea
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this space, they just Jal together, so it will be interesting to see what they do for
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you to the French team.
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After the game, Rico's copped a bit of flak from some of the Irish fans, but you know,
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when you're a winger, you can speak from first hand experience.
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It's pretty tough if you're getting beaten up front to sort of try and turn the game
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from number 14.
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Yeah, I think what surprised me the most was, I don't know what happened, but he was
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playing, he was defending at centre a couple of times, and I don't know whether they shuffle
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it around, but he came into centre, but they were doing what I call close the gate, right,
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where you come from the outside in, and it's a high risk defensive model.
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And the only guy, the only guy that I reckon has ever been able to really, really effectively
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do it was Sean Edwards.
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Sean Edwards, when he was coaching sides, their outside in defence was amazing.
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So, Rico, only Sean Edwards, what about the boss, that's how they had a feeling.
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Yeah, but not as good as Sean Edwards coaches, right, come on.
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Come on.
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Seriously, I think Sean Edwards, you know, the other side of the defence for Lentzder.
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Jacques, me number.
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So I think Victor, he's from South Africa of course, there was a lot of talk and that's
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what I'm saying, because he's going to Sean Edwards.
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And you know, when ever Lentzder holds behind us because of Jacques, you can just, yeah,
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the defence of system, and we were actually, I was in CD on Saturday, and we were talking
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about it, and why is that a defensive system from outside in shutting down no more than
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two bosses, only working for South Africa, but Lentzder is not really getting there.
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And that we really believe is just that physicality.
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I mean, with the Springbok team, every time they make a tackle, they kill the ball,
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right there, it's slow ball, they can get into space again.
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Unfortunately, with Lentzder, although they're there, the first few phases, they don't
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slow the ball down.
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So it's quick ball, one clean out ruts and whatever it people on their feet.
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So if you wanted to fend like that, you need to physicality as well.
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But I also think everyone needs to be committed to it, and I think you've got to, you've
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got to have the, like, when the South Africans and when the French do it under Sean Edwards,
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they are all really, really aligned from a speed point of view.
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What I noticed the other day was that Rico came forward, but not everyone was with
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them, right?
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And you've really got to, they've got to be able to pass over you, and that's what South
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Africa and the French tries try to do when they close the gate.
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But these guys weren't coming fully committed to it, like you said, Victor.
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And so it's actually really, really dangerous.
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So I don't know what, I don't know what they were doing defensively, or whether there's,
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I don't know, I just thought it was really, a couple of soft tries.
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So yeah, I mean, but to get back to the Rico story, you know, like at a wedding score a
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few last week, you know, they've got dominated up front, like, Victor said, and it's really,
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really hard to try and do anything from the wing when you get dominated and going backwards.
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Yeah, so do you think the fans may be being a little bit hard on Rico and Juck?
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Yeah, I mean, look, I think that you've got to understand your football team and understand
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whether that's the defensive pattern for it.
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I think that when Warren Gatlin came down to New Zealand and he tried to do that with
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Waikato, it just didn't work, we're not great at that.
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Now, you close the gate from outside in just the winger, you can do that.
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But what we're talking about is the whole back line outside and just jamming as hard
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as they can.
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And it's not an easy defensive pattern, and I don't think it suits some football teams.
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I do want to know, you always say I talk about South African players.
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What about Big Ben Tamafuna?
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Shouldn't they try and get him back in New Zealand, right?
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What a impact every time he gets onto the field.
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I mean, he's cramming is good.
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I mean, he created two turnovers at the break down.
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There's no way of stopping him when he gets close to the line.
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Isn't there someone New Zealand must see if he can't get him back for a World Cup?
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Probably not, mate.
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No. Why not?
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Because I don't think it's the type of game that we're playing at the moment.
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I think Ben, you know, Ben was here.
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He might have changed as a player, but Ben, when he was here, you know,
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probably not as complete.
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I mean, a lot of our players aren't as complete when they go overseas,
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and he's probably got a whole lot better.
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But I think that the way we want to play the game, I don't think Ben had sued it.
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But isn't there the...
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I'm just thinking, I mean, we...
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Russia is looking at Godless audio that's starting.
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Is our alignment counts?
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I'm just, okay, he's playing overseas, so he's not allowed to play for your guys.
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But I think any...
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I mean, he's been outstanding every time he got onto the block,
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and you'll say maybe he's not mobile enough, but he got too nervous.
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I mean, every time he carries, he makes 5-10 meters.
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Why won't you pick him?
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Well, because to your point, JK, you know, are we judging him on his form
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when he was in New Zealand?
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Now have a look at him, he's left the country,
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he's gone to finishing school in France, he's got better.
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And how many of those are there?
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You know, Jamison Gibson Park.
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I coach Jamison Gibson Park.
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One of the most talented guys that I'd ever coached,
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but I don't think he was the complete footballer that he's become.
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Bundy R.K., so...
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I mean, we've got 660 players playing overseas, Victor.
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I mean, I don't know how many South Africans are playing overseas,
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but a lot of these guys get way better when they go overseas,
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because they're leaving so young.
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I mean, it's an ongoing argument,
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and no, we won't pick them, Victor, because our game would die here, mate.
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If we let them pick from overseas, no one would stay in New Zealand.
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So we've got to try and protect what we've got.
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And if we started picking guys from overseas,
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I reckon it would ruin our domestic game
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and where we're already struggling down here.
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So I think absolutely no way we can pick them.
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Are they way better players than when they're living in New Zealand?
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Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of them mature.
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They get better, they understand.
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They get different coaching, they become way more mature.
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They see a different whole way of living.
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But we can't pick them, Victor, who ruin our game down here.
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And you're bringing Chisland Chloe back, is that right?
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Yeah, it looks like Chisland is coming back to the stormers.
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It's pretty for me, he's not coming to the bulls, but, yeah,
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I think there's something we've found now
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with picking our players overseas.
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They go over, but most of them wants to come back
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and come finish South Africa, and that's great.
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I mean, they bring all that IP that they've learned
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all over the world back to our game.
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So, I mean, to have Chisland back in his stormers jersey
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will just be unbelievable.
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He's loved in Cape Town, and, yeah, I think
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the storm is going to be so much better.
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They've got to come back.
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They've got to come back.
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Can you explain, can you explain where you are
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so we can explain that announcement behind you?
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Yeah, that's my plan, leaving.
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I'm at the lounge, I'm in the lounge, really to fly back to Auckland.
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I've been in Christchurch all day.
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Yeah, but I think now that it's a good point,
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like I think we've got guys, I think there's 45 guys
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leaving New Zealand this year, and a lot of them are young.
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I mean, look at Raiassi at fullback, so good.
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I mean, he left 18 months ago, still a young man,
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and there he was in, he left New Zealand to go to pro-do or something,
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and now he's playing fullback for big land.
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Like, what a big land, like how good.
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So, I agree with you.
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I think it can be a financial thing, and then New Zealand,
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I don't know what it's like in South Africa, but if we,
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maybe we need to start sending them younger,
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so send them at 23, and then they can come back at 26 or 27,
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when they're matured, and then contribute back to New Zealand.
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But we're not doing enough, we're not thinking outside the square
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enough in this country, Victor.
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We're always saying, oh, we can't keep our players,
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so they're going on financials about it.
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There must be some other solutions,
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and I would love to have that conversation
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about what they are, partnerships with teams overseas,
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CN3 or 4 young guys, letting them to make their money,
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then bring them back, but we're losing way too many players.
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So, the good thing is, that's exactly what this shows about JK
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is to find those answers.
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So, you know, we've got two rugby geniuses in yourself and Victor.
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And what about the idea of sort of having, say,
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like an apprenticeship scheme where you have spot young talent,
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and say, you know what, go to France for three to five years,
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you know, and we'll bring you back at 25, 26, 27, or whatever,
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and we've invested in you, so, you know,
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that's when we're going to get the value.
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Well, you have to, when you say investment, Ricardo,
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what are you saying?
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What would have to do is keep them on some sort of retainer?
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Because there's a couple of things that we don't do in rugby.
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We don't have transfer fees, and we also have agents, right?
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And the agent's got to do what they think's best for the player.
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So, unless we're actually going to invest, which means,
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say, someone like RIRC, if we thought he was going to be good,
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you'd have to pay him a retainer or do something to bring him back.
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But I still think it's a conversation.
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I still think there's a better conversation around
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how we should be able to retain our players.
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Even tax, like the Irish have a tax break.
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So, if you play in Ireland, if you don't go overseas,
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you get, I think about, I don't know exactly,
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but you get a lot of your tax back when you retire.
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We could even try and do something like that.
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We could have a referendum in our country
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and try and see if we do that, but we've got to change something.
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I'm just, I still think you're missing the opportunity
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to allow your players.
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I mean, we're playing professional sport.
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It's a professional era.
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Players must earn the most they can while they play,
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and they must still be allowed to play for their country.
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I mean, when Russia started in South Africa, I was,
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Jake, I was like you, but what about our local teams?
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What about our provincial teams?
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We won't be able to compete in super rugby and years.
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Maybe we're not as strong.
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That's why we're not at a champion's cup final yet,
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because a lot of our top players are playing overseas.
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But I mean, normally 80% almost of your budget
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in a club or let's say South African rugby
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or New Zealand rugby goes to your top players.
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Now they play overseas, so you don't have to pay them.
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You can use that money for development.
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So let them go play overseas.
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Your younger players get opportunity much earlier
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in the system, so they develop quicker.
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And then you bring them back to play for your national team.
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I still don't understand why you want to protect.
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I mean, you the top four teams in super rugby.
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How much better can you do?
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I mean, but is that the best for your national team?
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Is that the best for the players?
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I mean, they only got a window of 10 years to earn money.
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Why can't they go earn the most money
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and still play for the whole place?
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Yeah, look, I don't disagree with that discussion, Bukka.
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What I'm scared of is that we don't have the base
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that you have in South Africa.
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I don't know if we have the amount of players
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that would make the competition attractive enough
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for our game to continue to thrive.
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Like the biggest problem I have
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is that some of our biggest rugby schools
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now have more football teams.
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You know, there's more young kids playing soccer.
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Our game, we need to, and people will say,
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I'll look, you know, other numbers are up
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and all that sort of stuff, but the reality is,
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you know, we're competing in a really tight market
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and we're a really, really small nation.
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We've got five million people, Bukka.
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You've got 65 million, you know?
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It's a bigger demographic.
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So I don't disagree with you.
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I think that maybe there's somewhere in between
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where if you've played 25 or 30 tests,
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matches for the whole black,
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you can then be selected if you go overseas.
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So maybe there's somewhere in the middle.
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Okay, what about the fact that, you know,
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even in Super Rugby,
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Zealand players can't go and play
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for Queensland New South Wales
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and be selected for the All Blacks?
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Yeah, I don't agree with that.
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So what I'd like to see in our game,
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I'd like to see our Super Rugby change.
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I'd like to see South Africa come back
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and bid in a European cup type game, right?
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So we play our normal competition
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and then we break into a European cup.
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We bring the Japanese and we bring the South Africans in.
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We bring possibly American side in
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and we play these round robins.
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And then if you're playing with in that competition,
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then you actually can be selected for the All Blacks.
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So if you're playing in a top team in Japan
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and that Japan team comes down and plays the blues
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in a high looking cup or European cup,
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whatever you call it, then yeah,
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I just think we need to think a little bit differently
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around our competitions.
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I'd like to bring South Africa back in.
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You can cut that out of the tape recorder
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because I don't really want people to know.
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I said that.
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But we need to do something a little bit different
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also from a professional point of view.
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We need to give some money to our clubs
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so they can stand alone rather than the All Blacks paying
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for everything.
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So if we had a European cup
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and that television rights went to the individual club,
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so let's say the Bulls are in it and let's say
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the Blues are in it and let's say the Highlanders are in it
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and let's say Toshiba are in it, Santori.
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Moana Pacifica,
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the Fiji and Taira.
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So I think if we think differently
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and create a different competition,
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the only thing that the All Blacks would have to probably
19:35
cop is that you need to play that competition
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for most of the year and break out to then play
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for the All Blacks.
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But then I think over 30 test matches,
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maybe you get to play overseas like Victor said
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and we need to try some stuff.
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JK's just invited you back Victor.
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Thank you very much.
19:52
Would you come back, Victor?
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Would they come back?
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I don't know.
19:59
I see there was some talks last week of us
20:01
pulling out of the Champions Cup.
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There was just talks.
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I don't know if there's any truth behind it.
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And the only thing if we don't play there,
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we need to play against New Zealand teams.
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But at this stage, I mean,
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just traveling everything for us is so much easier
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just to go up North.
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I mean, you fly on a Wednesday night there.
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You're there Tuesday morning, no jet lag, no nothing.
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All the games is at the same time between four
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and eight in the evening.
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So, yeah, it's at the moment it's working
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pretty nice in the year.
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Could be making your soft, though, Victor.
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Could be making your soft, though, mate,
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because you did tell me once you used to love driving,
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traveling down to New Zealand and jet lag.
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And you know the tough guard, you know,
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used to come and get the shit kicked out in,
20:49
you know, New Zealand, and you reckon it made the bloody
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player mate.
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Yeah, that made us tough.
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That made us tough.
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New Zealand boys will tell you they really must come in
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to South Africa for those reasons on to it's time.
21:00
How do you do?
21:01
You know, no, I've said it so many times.
21:05
Super every when we played it with all the top players
21:07
was the best competition in the world.
21:09
But, yeah, time.
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There's some really good, there's some really good
21:12
super games on the weekend too, Ricardo.
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Yeah, last week you were calling for it to be ended
21:18
and then we had a full house in the hell of a game.
21:20
So, have you caught much flak?
21:22
Yeah, of course I have.
21:23
But I'm not saying that we need to change it.
21:30
We need to have changed because our game is fantastic
21:34
when it's played well, when it's reft well.
21:36
We're just not seeing that consistency.
21:38
And I just don't think that the tournament at the moment
21:41
is really, really fan centric.
21:45
So, I don't care if we carry on with Super Rugby
21:48
but it needs to change.
21:49
We need a Heineken Cup.
21:50
I'd rather go back to an NPC situation.
21:53
I just think we need to have those discussion
21:55
and decide what we want to do strategically.
21:57
Everyone says, oh, the game's in good spirit.
21:59
The game's in good spirit.
22:00
I don't believe in it.
22:01
So, that's my opinion and I'll stand by it.
22:04
I tell you, so, you know, I was doing some research
22:06
which may surprise you and I was looking through
22:09
the New Zealand hero just to see what are the top rugby
22:12
topics of today and it was like 12 stories
22:16
before I could find a rugby story.
22:19
And that's quite different to what it used to be.
22:21
Is it, what's it like in South Africa?
22:23
Is rugby still dominating the sports headlines?
22:27
Yeah, no.
22:28
It also depends.
22:29
I mean, in Africa and media,
22:31
rugby will always be back page, front page,
22:35
everywhere, especially if the spring box played.
22:38
And like now, going into quarter finals,
22:41
the playoffs with USC definitely dominates
22:44
most of the papers.
22:45
So, yeah, I think of Garn's papers,
22:49
rugby is definitely dominating.
22:51
English papers, soccer is pretty big as well,
22:54
especially our local soccer if some of the big teams play.
22:57
And I mean, we're going to World Cup as well now.
23:00
So, that's also very big in the soccer.
23:03
And cricket is also very big in South Africa.
23:05
Tell me what's going to happen in those USC quarter finals, Victor.
23:09
Yeah, so we're looking forward to it.
23:12
It will be interesting.
23:13
The Lions that had a real good run at the end.
23:17
That's Old Transval.
23:20
J.K., if you were worried.
23:24
They're playing Lindster.
23:25
And I still believe Lindster is a team to be in the USC.
23:29
But how will they stand up after we can like this?
23:32
Will they play the strongest team in the quarter final?
23:35
Will they give a few of the guys a race play?
23:38
Because they do have great depth there.
23:40
Will they play some other players?
23:42
So, maybe opportunity for the Lions to sneak in there.
23:46
Then we've got the Bulls at home against Munster.
23:50
Big game.
23:51
I think the Bulls are probably the team in South Africa
23:55
that should go the furthest.
23:58
They play Munster if they get through there.
24:00
They'll probably have to play Glasgow.
24:02
We're away, same as in the quarter final of Champions Cup
24:06
where they just lost with one or two points.
24:08
I think they can go over and beat Glasgow.
24:11
And then the Stormers.
24:13
The Stormers have been up and down.
24:14
I mean, they've got a magical backline
24:19
with Sasha.
24:19
They're leading from the front.
24:21
They're playing Cardiff.
24:22
Will they lost against in the last Bulls stage?
24:24
They need to fix something there.
24:26
But we've got two teams that can definitely compete.
24:28
I think between the Stormers and the Bulls,
24:32
there's opportunity to win the USC.
24:35
I'd love to ask you as a lock for this question,
24:39
but who's the best 10 in the USC at the moment?
24:43
Is it Sasha?
24:45
I think Sasha went through a rough patch a little bit
24:49
in the middle, but in the last few games he just found his form.
24:53
He's also playing in a team that's almost not structured enough.
24:58
I think he loves to play in a team where they structure
25:01
and he can just, in that structure, he can just be himself
25:04
and play what he sees.
25:06
I think he's playing.
25:08
I would like to see Damian, Williamson, move back to 12
25:11
in that Stormers team next to him.
25:13
I think that's where he's at his base as well.
25:16
But Sasha is in great form.
25:18
Andres, Andre Polot, like you always,
25:20
he's steady, consistent, leading from the front for the Bulls.
25:25
But yeah, Sasha's special, I think, between him
25:29
and Jellybeer, they're fighting for that best in in the world
25:33
at the moment.
25:34
So if you're going to answer the number 10 situation,
25:36
Jake, who's the best number seven in Super Rugby at the moment?
25:40
That's a really good question, mate.
25:44
I really, I mean, he didn't start the other night,
25:47
but I think Karifi is, you know?
25:51
I think he's going really well.
25:55
I just like, he's nagging, he's getting over the ball.
26:00
There's a young guy from the Highlanders
26:01
who's had a breakout season, too, but he's more of a six.
26:05
Yeah.
26:06
So I really like him.
26:07
I like he's sort of ragged.
26:09
And one of those sort of raw bone guys.
26:12
But I think to Percy Karifi, I just really like him.
26:16
I just think he's, he's come so far in sort of four years.
26:21
You know, he had a lot of eras in him in the first few years,
26:24
but he's just really stepped up, really physical.
26:27
I mean, that, that hurricane side we had to be,
26:30
they are really, really physical.
26:32
And he leads that.
26:33
He rested last week, but I think he's probably
26:35
one of the best at the moment.
26:36
See, I thought so.
26:37
Because he's got a South Africa name, Duplici.
26:39
Masculine.
26:42
I thought you'd, and you ever kept in you in New Zealand?
26:46
Have a whole black cat.
26:47
Have a name, captain yet.
26:48
Have a name, captain.
26:48
I just got a coach.
26:49
Relax.
26:51
I thought you might come in with a, a left field call
26:55
and say the best number seven in the competition
26:57
is Lester Farnuchen.
26:59
Well, Lester's actually playing the house down.
27:02
I think he's got us all guessing.
27:04
And, and Victor will tell you that the South Africa's,
27:07
South African and, Russi invented the hybrid player.
27:11
And I probably have to agree with him for once in my life.
27:14
But, yeah, he's been amazing.
27:16
There's, there's been an amazing, right?
27:18
Amazing as a hybrid player.
27:21
I don't know where they'll, they'll play it.
27:23
I don't know whether he's, he brings so much to the game.
27:27
But when you say a hybrid, what does that mean?
27:29
Does that mean you start off the bench
27:31
and you, you can cover two positions or what does that mean?
27:35
I think hybrid is insulting to him, to be honest.
27:37
I think, I think we've got hybrid players in the game,
27:40
but I think Lester Farnuchen at seven is a game breaker.
27:44
He's like one of the best players on the park playing at seven.
27:49
And he's a very powerful player at center and wing.
27:51
So, I don't think, I think he's actually,
27:54
I think he could be a ace up the sleeve for the tour
27:59
against South Africa.
28:01
That's what though.
28:01
So, what are you saying?
28:02
If you don't believe in hybrids,
28:04
you're saying pick him as a seven and not as a 13.
28:07
Yep.
28:11
Victor?
28:12
It always helps, it always helps.
28:14
Even if he starts, always on the bench, I mean,
28:17
you can go with a six to split or even a seven, one,
28:22
like South Africa.
28:24
And you've got an extra guy that can play in the back line.
28:26
So, that will always help.
28:29
But I still believe in taste match track B.
28:33
You want guys that's a base in a position
28:36
that will fall that role that they need to really well.
28:41
But it's always nice if these back up.
28:43
And especially with your bench and how you want to play
28:46
with it, if they can play more than one position.
28:49
Here's a question back to you, Ricardo.
28:50
Do you think that Super Rugby is of a level now
28:55
where you can actually see someone play at Super Rugby
28:58
and know they'll be good at test matches,
29:01
like it was in the past?
29:02
What do you think the gap is massive?
29:04
Well, you guys know better because, you know,
29:06
you've played better.
29:07
I think the gap is bigger than it used to be.
29:10
I think there's less tough games in Super Rugby
29:14
than there used to be.
29:15
So, you know, you have the local diabetes, you know,
29:19
that chiefs crusader's game was outstanding.
29:21
And that was a true test of how good you were.
29:24
But are we seeing games like that every week?
29:26
Probably not.
29:28
So, you know, Super Rugby's probably not as relentless
29:32
as it was when Victor and his crew were there.
29:36
And, you know, so yeah, sure.
29:39
Your point is that maybe we're getting a little bit carried away
29:42
with some players because of what we're seeing in Super Rugby
29:44
and is that the same as test matches?
29:47
Probably not.
29:48
Well, it's going to be, I mean, it's definitely going to be picked,
29:50
but I saw Dave Renner made a comment the other day saying,
29:54
you know, we'll wait and see.
29:56
And I think that's wise because you wouldn't want to expose them
29:59
at test match level in a position like that too early, right?
30:05
But he's an amazing athlete, amazing player.
30:08
I haven't seen him play center for a little while.
30:11
So he's playing pretty well at seven, right?
30:14
Yeah, I was just having that skill set like it's obviously a back
30:17
so he can kick his unbelievably powerful close to the line.
30:21
You know, he's quick, he's explosive.
30:24
And you're putting him closer to the ball more often.
30:27
So, you know, I think it's, you know,
30:29
it's going to be interesting to see how he develops
30:31
over the next six months, 12 months
30:33
because I actually think he's better than just a guy
30:36
who covers two positions on the bench,
30:38
which is what most people think of hybrids.
30:40
I think he's a game breaker.
30:42
And maybe it's taking what South Africa did another step.
30:48
It's like, let's take a player with a skill set
30:51
that is usually utilized out wide and put them in close.
30:56
I don't think you can just do that, Ricardo.
30:59
I think especially with the lines of a loose forward, you know,
31:03
I think you just can't do that.
31:05
I think that's a real big arc.
31:07
He's so conservative.
31:09
No, no, I'm just saying, Lester,
31:11
did he play in the forwards growing up?
31:14
That wouldn't be surprised.
31:15
Exactly.
31:16
I don't think he can just go to loose forward
31:19
from outside back without having played it.
31:21
And he put, you know, like Jonah,
31:23
Jonah played number eight all his life
31:24
and then went to wing, you know?
31:26
Well, I think, I mean, Victor spent most of his time
31:28
in the back line.
31:30
Much easier than you know.
31:33
Can rest a bit, no contacts.
31:36
Just love it out there.
31:39
Catch him, boss.
31:40
Chicken good.
31:41
Easy life in the back line.
31:44
Mate, just before we go, I've always wanted to ask you this.
31:47
Take me through that try you scored with your chip in chase.
31:52
Which one with the bulls over those spring box?
31:54
Which one?
31:55
Which one?
31:56
Which one?
31:56
Now, the bulls one I scored, actually.
31:59
The bulls one was nice, undisclined from nine.
32:03
Then it does Matthew Burke in front of me.
32:06
I knew I didn't have the feet I had to chip him.
32:08
And with a box, I actually didn't score.
32:11
So I picked him, go through the rack
32:14
and then I had to chip one of those training fullbacks.
32:17
I couldn't know what that was.
32:18
And then I scored and I gave to Jock
32:20
for actually an eScore to try.
32:22
But yeah, if you don't have feet to work,
32:24
use the chip as much easier.
32:27
And if you don't have base, yeah.
32:29
Yeah, that's true because a chip was in your strength.
32:33
Come on, Ricardo.
32:34
Come on.
32:35
I don't think you know, I didn't kick it.
32:38
There's a lot of things that work my strength.
32:40
Kicking, tackling, hitting rocks.
32:42
They work my strengths.
32:44
We'll probably...
32:46
We should end it there, more disciples.
32:48
Sounds like my game, it's okay.
32:50
Pretty much the same problems.
32:52
They're interesting that you two say that
32:54
because my game was flawless.
32:57
Thanks very much for joining us
32:58
and we'll catch you next week on Rivals.