Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 65: Breaking the Shell - How Men's Intensives Unlock Embodied Healing

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65: Breaking the Shell - How Men's Intensives Unlock Embodied Healing · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

0:00
Hey, everybody, welcome to the podcast.
0:02
Got a question for you. I know we've talked about this
0:04
in the past, but have you ever had an experience where you
0:08
recognize you have all the information, you've got the
0:10
education down, you feel like you know it up here, but you
0:13
really struggled to find an inside of here?
0:15
We're going to talk about that a little bit today in the
0:18
intensives that we had and we actually have a guest speaker,
0:21
couple guest speakers. Welcome to Beyond the Facade
0:27
podcast. I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and
0:29
I'm thrilled to have you join me in this space today.
0:31
What we're going to be doing is diving deep into the trials and
0:34
triumphs and truths of seeking authenticity.
0:37
Becoming your true self isn't about a single action or a
0:40
moment. It's a relentless pursuit, a
0:42
commitment to self that reveals the rich connection and meaning
0:46
that our life has to offer. So whether this is your first
0:48
time tuning in or you're a regular listener, know this.
0:51
What you're building here goes beyond a conversation.
0:54
You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
0:57
incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
1:00
Because when you dare to show up fully, the rewards are
1:02
immeasurable. So welcome to Beyond the Facade.
1:05
Let's get started. OK, so let's jump into, I want
1:10
to introduce you all to a couple people.
1:12
I'm going to start with Hallie. Hallie is one of our coaches to
1:15
choose. She's been on my podcast before
1:18
and she is fantastical what she does.
1:20
She works with betrayed partners and also the person that does
1:23
with training. She runs our helper heal group
1:26
and anyway extremely qualified person.
1:29
She is helping me kind of facilitate this, this
1:32
conversation today because our guest speaker, Tim attended our
1:38
Helper Heal Intensive couple weeks ago and he was brave and
1:42
vulnerable enough to share his experience because we recognize
1:46
there was a deep level of impact for him and the other people
1:50
that attended. And we're going to talk about
1:52
what I just mentioned, maybe having the information in your
1:56
head, but it doesn't necessarily translate to recovery or to
1:59
relational healing. So we're going to go through
2:01
that. So let me come to you first,
2:03
Hallie, anything you want to introduce yourself on before we
2:06
jump over to Tim? No, I think you did a good a
2:09
good job of introducing me. I'm happy to be here and really
2:11
excited to talk to Tim and a little bit more about there were
2:17
all the really cool things we did at the Helper Hill.
2:19
It's I love the intensives. That's just, I'd live for those
2:23
intensives. They're so fun.
2:25
But this one was particularly enjoyable.
2:27
And so I'm excited that and appreciate Tim's willingness to
2:31
come talk to us about his experience there and looking
2:34
forward to the next. One, absolutely.
2:37
OK, so Tim, any type of introduction you want to give on
2:40
yourself? No, I'm this father too on this
2:44
journey and definitely the intensive was huge, was a big
2:48
part of of my healing journey and also my partner and getting
2:53
to better understand sort of like the impact and how I can
2:58
show up and really, really be present with her.
3:02
Because that's the hardest part. We can own up what we did, but
3:06
seeing the people be loved the most hurt is the hardest part.
3:10
So yeah, this was definitely huge for me, stepping out of
3:13
that shame and more into an empowered husband and father so
3:17
that I can be there and be there through this this whole thing.
3:21
So yeah, thank you for introducing me.
3:24
Oh yeah, of course. So glad.
3:25
I'm just again, a lot of vulnerability.
3:27
You being here. By the way, if you come to our
3:29
intensive, it's not a requirement that you attend a
3:31
podcast. So if you're like, woah.
3:34
And please don't take that the wrong way of of Tim's been in
3:37
work and recovery and just just good to spend time with you.
3:41
All right, so we're, if you're like, wow, I don't know if I'll
3:45
attend the intensive or the future one just recognizes
3:49
podcast is not just about the intensive, but it's about what
3:51
happened at the intensive and about a part of the recovery
3:54
work, whether you attend or not. So anyway, just don't want to
3:58
lose you if you're like, I don't know if I'll do that.
4:01
OK, so Howie, do you mind highlighting this since
4:04
technically you LED this? What is the purpose for this
4:07
intensive? Why do we even created the
4:09
helper heal? Yeah, I so like you mentioned, I
4:15
facilitate the helper Heal group, which is a group for guys
4:18
who we meet every week and we talk a lot about showing up and
4:24
holding space for their wife as they're trying to step into
4:27
relational repair after betrayal.
4:29
And one of the, I think one of the most difficult challenges
4:34
with that is helping them learn what it feels like to embody
4:40
empathy, which is something we talked a lot about it, the
4:42
intensive, because we can talk a lot about like scripts and what
4:45
the words sound like. And we can, we can, you know,
4:50
like hear, learn about it. We can hear about it.
4:52
And OK, that sounds good. But like, what does it actually
4:55
mean to feel that? And so when we're in person at
4:58
the intensive, our goal or at least my hoped for intention
5:03
with this was to let the guys experience in person in a place
5:08
away from their spouse who was, you know, usually when their
5:12
wife is activated, they have a hard time being present for
5:16
them. And so getting some practice
5:18
away from that so that they could learn what that feels like
5:21
and then be able to take it home and apply it in those difficult
5:25
situations. And so, so moving from that
5:29
performative empathy into embodied empathy was our one of
5:32
my hope for outcomes for these guys as they came.
5:36
And I'm excited that Tim was willing to talk to us about it
5:39
because I'd love to hear some of those experiences of how what we
5:43
did at the Intensive was able to translate into being at home and
5:47
actually playing it. And it hasn't been that long,
5:49
but you've had enough time. To practice totally totally.
5:53
Hey, Tim, So before you attended the intensive, what's some of
5:57
the things you were experiencing relationally?
5:59
And I'm just recognizing that that your partner is being
6:03
vulnerable to by having you be here, but what were you
6:06
experiencing prior to attending? What made you go?
6:09
I want I want to do that. Yeah, doing all the work on
6:13
myself has been its own journey. But the hardest and it's all
6:16
hard. This is all hard stuff, but when
6:19
my spouse is triggered, it's always the hardest.
6:22
And then you talk about performative.
6:24
I have all the acronyms. I've have tons of notes on
6:27
things to say and go through all these scripts, but ultimately
6:31
it's not from the heart. It never felt like it was from
6:34
the heart, and I wanted to really embody being with my wife
6:39
and not just thinking of what I'm supposed to say.
6:42
So coming in, that's where I was.
6:44
I was in this space of just learning all the acronyms and
6:47
the things to say, but it wasn't embodied and it wasn't feeling
6:51
genuine or authentic. So coming into this intensive, I
6:58
think we did a good job. Hallie did a good job and Luke
7:01
of really identifying these core like belief systems we have that
7:07
are sort of sort of taking us out of our body.
7:13
And there was a numerous amount of things, the somatic work and
7:16
in the exercises, in the writing and and then being with the
7:19
other men on hearing their experiences.
7:22
And everyone would just would have a hot moments like, Oh,
7:26
he's going through the same thing as me.
7:28
So we're not alone in this. I guess you could say coming to
7:31
an attensive with other men, you really see that you're not
7:34
alone. Thank you.
7:36
Are you aware of any hopes that your partner had that you gain
7:39
from it? Yeah, I'd like to say I have a
7:42
perfection piece of me. I think that even in one of our
7:45
exercises we did, I came out of it saying I wanted to be better
7:49
and you were asking me what that's about.
7:50
So there's always this perfectionist piece of me
7:53
wanting to be better, wanting to be better.
7:56
And I think coming home, I think I had a little bit of that I
8:00
should be a lot better than I was.
8:02
And, and I, I, I had a lot more tools and I, but I'm going to
8:05
say it's still a practice. This isn't a show up.
8:08
And it's 100%. I think my partner would even
8:11
say that she's going to listen to this, that, you know, 50% of
8:16
the time I'm there and I'm empathetic and embodied and, and
8:19
I still struggle the other 50% of the time.
8:21
It's still a work in progress. Yeah, thanks for saying that,
8:25
Tim. Hallie, I know you were in touch
8:27
with partners during or before this experience.
8:29
What do you what did you notice they were helping people had
8:32
gained from it? I think they were kind of the
8:36
overarching theme of what the partners gave us coming into
8:41
this was they wanted them to have a deeper understanding of
8:46
the level of pain and to really understand what creating safety
8:53
looks like. And I know a lot of times that
8:58
on the surface sounds like physical safety.
9:01
And really what we were, what the partners are looking for is
9:07
the emotional and psychological safety to be in their pain and
9:12
have their pain witnessed and just be held without judgement,
9:17
without justification, without any manipulation of turning it
9:22
back on them. And so really just even if they
9:25
can never fully understand the pain that this betrayal causes,
9:30
having the space to be in their pain and have it be honoured.
9:36
Yeah, yeah, absolutely deep pain connected to that.
9:41
And Hallie, can you talk to us a little bit about and Tim, I know
9:46
you're going to share with us some of this, but Halleck, you
9:49
wouldn't mind setting it up, would you introduce the purpose
9:51
of somatic work or body based work in the intensive?
9:55
Why we're doing that? Because I know you talked about
9:57
embodied, but what is this? What is that we would do?
10:01
So I think that obviously, I believe there's great value in
10:05
verbally processing the things that are coming up for us and
10:08
talking about making sense of the life experiences that we've
10:12
had that are impacting the choices that we're making and
10:15
the way that we show up in the world today.
10:18
And there's a piece of healing that often gets overlooked
10:22
because we want to cognitively think about it.
10:25
And traumatic experiences like our body, our brain, our spirit
10:32
are all impacted. And if all we do is verbally
10:36
process and cognitively think about things, we're missing that
10:39
whole piece of how this is impacted our body.
10:42
There's several books you can read like The Body Keeps the
10:44
Score and Feelings Buried Alive, Never Die, and lots of great
10:48
resources out there that talk about how our body stores trauma
10:55
and emotional difficulties. And I think that this is one of
11:01
the biggest pieces that gets in the way for not just, I think
11:06
for both, both partners, the betrayed partner and the
11:09
individual seeking recovery. I think this lack of somatic
11:13
healing gets in the way of us being able to show up in the
11:16
present moment. And so the reason why I felt so
11:20
strongly about having some of the somatic piece in this is
11:23
because I wanted to give these guys a taste of what it feels
11:26
like. Some of them, Tim being one of
11:28
them, had experienced some somatic healing coming into it.
11:31
And so that was awesome. Hopefully we just were able to
11:34
build on the foundation you already had.
11:36
But I believe some of these guys experienced some of the somatic
11:39
healing for the first time. And I think there's a piece of
11:43
somatic healing that helps you feel like your pain being
11:48
honored and your pain being witnessed and giving yourself
11:53
the space to just be with your own pain and to explore it and
11:58
get curious about it a little bit more.
12:01
And I wanted them to have that experience so that they could
12:06
hopefully open the door for more of that in their healing journey
12:10
going forward. And so that's that was why,
12:13
because you cannot be present with someone else's pain if
12:16
you're not in your body. You can't.
12:19
It's literally impossible to to be with somebody else until you
12:22
learn to be with somebody else until you learn to be with
12:25
yourself. That kind of sound abstract.
12:28
OK, so Tim, help us. I'm thinking about, I don't
12:31
know, maybe myself in early recovery.
12:33
And shoot, I don't want to call it early recovery.
12:36
Just open my own self in recovery of thoughts about doing
12:41
semantic work. And part of me is like, people
12:43
listen to this going what semantic work are they Googling
12:46
it right now going what is that? And I know we've already talked
12:48
about this podcast, but Tim, what are your initial thoughts
12:52
before doing some of the semantic work?
12:54
What did you think before doing it?
12:57
Before I ever got into any of that, I just, I didn't know like
13:02
I think we're as men, generally, we're problem solvers and we
13:06
like to use our our brain to kind of figure things out and
13:10
try to like we can fix everything and if we're broken,
13:14
we can fix it like with our minds.
13:17
But I, what I'm learning now in my journey, I think starting
13:21
with just guided medications in the morning.
13:23
And then it's really about the answers we have are within us.
13:29
And it's not all from the brain. It comes from inside.
13:34
And for us to go inside, we need to do the somatic work.
13:37
And it's a lot about just remembering who we are and when
13:42
we can get to a place where we're sort of out of the mind
13:46
and into the heart, everything we need to know.
13:48
Like all these questions, I'm like, why do I do what I do?
13:51
And why did you know a lot of the confusion and there's some
13:54
men that you know, have been in this for a long time in recovery
13:58
and really struggling and questioning like what's wrong
14:01
with them? We have the answers.
14:03
Everything's inside of us. We just need to go within and it
14:06
takes this thematic work. So at first, you know, I years
14:12
ago, I just heard of some successful people saying that
14:16
self-awareness is the number one thing.
14:18
And I said, hey, they're on to something.
14:20
So I started doing the meditation and it's they're
14:24
right. Once you can gain
14:25
self-awareness, you can start to realize lots of things in your
14:29
life and why you do lots of things.
14:32
I do think it's key to healing and I was so grateful that it
14:37
was part of the intensive. I saw a lot of guys for the
14:40
first time go in have a really profound experiences and sharing
14:45
their stories and really cracking a shell.
14:48
I actually saw men's shells crack and you could see like
14:53
this seed was planted like, oh, there is more to this.
14:57
And I think I think it's the key.
15:01
It's the key to healing. And I think a lot of guys are
15:03
going to start realizing that. And this was a really good place
15:07
to to really see it. And Holly did a great job with
15:11
the guided meditations and Alana with the sound bowls and the
15:15
breath work. It was all it was all really
15:17
beneficial. Yeah, totally.
15:20
Holly, any comments on that? No, it just, it just is taking
15:24
me back to the week of the intensive and just how rewarding
15:30
it was for me to see those shells crack and for guys to
15:34
have aha moments and to experience things for the first
15:38
time. Like I said at the beginning,
15:40
This is why I do what I do because I love to see that
15:44
healing happening right before your eyes.
15:46
And I think this somatic work is what gives us the window into
15:51
allowing that to happen. Is.
15:54
Watching them go internal. We're going to take a quick
15:58
break for a moment. I want to let you know of some
15:59
things that we have coming up with True recovery services.
16:03
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16:05
Tension, discomfort, and that tightness that just won't quite
16:09
release? This is Holly Roderick and I
16:11
would like to invite you to join us this August 26th through 29th
16:15
in Spanish Fork, UT for Revive and Fray, a four day somatic
16:20
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16:22
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16:28
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16:32
through somatic practices like art therapy, breathwork, brains,
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16:41
immersion in nature. It's more than just an
16:44
intensive, it's a sacred sisterhood where you'll process
16:48
emotions, rebuild resilience, and come home to yourself
16:53
physically, emotionally, and spiritually.
16:57
If you're ready to step fully back into your life with freedom
17:00
and strength. Visit the show notes to learn
17:02
more and to register. Let's get back to our episode.
17:07
Here's a question I have for you.
17:09
There's a lot of this is just if I feel like some of times it can
17:11
be abstract, so share something again that can be recognized.
17:15
Hard to explain, but what did it feel like when you participated
17:19
in some of those exercises? What we got, What did it feel
17:22
like? I think like doing it in a group
17:25
has a whole nother level to it than me just doing it on my own.
17:30
There's some power behind everybody experiencing, having
17:36
their experiences and sharing. Something about that was more
17:40
powerful. And I not even like putting my
17:43
finger on it right now, but I think just seeing the shells
17:46
crack, it's just like sort of validating that this is the work
17:50
that we need to be doing. Let me ask you this, like what
17:53
do you feel like change or shifted?
17:55
Was there some awareness? Was there ability to be able to
17:57
emotional access? Was there like a sense of safety
18:01
or ability to be able to regulate?
18:02
What do you think changed or shifted?
18:07
Can I just use one experience with the cold plunge?
18:09
Please. So like with the cold plunge,
18:13
we, we get into this really ice cold water and our first
18:16
experiences, like we want to fight, like our bodies reacting
18:20
and we're, we want to get out and we're just fighting the
18:23
experience because it's so uncomfortable.
18:26
And what we learn, or what I learned is that the moment you
18:32
sort of just let go of this discomfort, that it's out of
18:36
your control, all that pain goes away.
18:40
And in that moment, it's sort of like that's when the truth comes
18:46
through. So sometimes with somatic work,
18:50
going into it can be uncomfortable.
18:51
Like with breath work, it's work.
18:53
You're breathing really hard, so there's some uncomfortableness
18:57
to it. But when you ultimately sort of
19:00
let go to that, it's sort of when everything comes to the
19:05
surface. And I sort of relate that to
19:07
when, when your spouse is triggered, you want to shut down
19:11
and see, you want to run away, you want to fight back.
19:14
But if you can just learn to let go and sink into whatever that
19:17
discomfort is, you can really go in and connect and whatever's
19:22
inside is going to come to the surface.
19:24
And that's when you really become embodied.
19:27
So that's like the experience of doing it to get bodied.
19:32
Yeah. The phrase that was coming to my
19:34
mind as you were talking to him is letting go of the outcome,
19:38
surrendering that need to control because that's a lot of
19:42
times what you know, when there's a painful situation, you
19:47
want to shut it down or fix it. And so that's where a lot of
19:50
times these unhelpful responses come up.
19:53
When are when you're in sitting in a trigger with your wife is
19:56
like you want her trigger to go away and as you can surrender
20:01
the need for that trigger to go away and just sit with it and
20:05
allow it to happen. That's where you're like holding
20:08
the space for the pain. And that's where everything
20:12
shifts, even relationally in those moments when she doesn't
20:17
feel like you're trying to control it or minimize it or
20:19
make it go away, but you're just allowing it and witnessing it.
20:23
And this is where this work gets so difficult for people in the
20:25
individual seeking recovery who are.
20:28
I think you have like double work to do.
20:30
You got to work to like regulate yourself when that comes out and
20:34
get to that place where you can surrender that need to control
20:37
and then hold space. So there's it's difficult.
20:40
Like we've said, I don't think anybody here is saying what's
20:43
wrong with you. Why are you doing this?
20:44
But, and you also used a word earlier to, of practice.
20:48
This is a practice. This isn't just a light switch
20:51
we can flip. I wish it was.
20:52
We can't. It's a practice and so you've
20:55
mentioned that you're doing some of this stuff on a daily basis,
20:58
and I think that's where the practice comes in.
21:00
It's like doing these things on a daily basis, especially when
21:04
you're not in an activated situation, gives you that
21:08
ability to have that space between stimulus and response.
21:13
When you are in an activated situation or when your wife is
21:16
activated, you're able to hold that space.
21:18
But if you just think about it until the moment comes and then
21:22
you try to step into it, you're not going to be able to do it as
21:24
well as if you're practicing it on a constant everyday basis.
21:28
It's part of your recovery work on a regular basis.
21:32
It's going inward, going internal, practicing sitting in
21:36
the discomfort. Holly, can you spend a little
21:39
bit more time explaining why the somatic work matters in
21:42
betrayals, trauma, healing? Maybe a little bit more
21:45
distinction between like cognitive understanding and
21:47
INBOD and empathy, like why the nervous system impacts our
21:50
ability to be able to communicate.
21:52
Yeah. So if you think about what
21:53
happens in betrayal, there's a significant attachment wound.
21:59
And so our brain in a betrayed partner's brain, a betrayed
22:02
partner's brain, her amygdala is like hyperactivated.
22:05
So that part of her brain that goes, am I safe?
22:08
Am I safe? Am I safe, is on high alert.
22:11
And so when she sees something or it's not even always
22:15
something that their spouse has done, when they have maybe a
22:19
memory or recall or a they smell something or hear something or
22:23
see something, their brain goes automatically into that, am I
22:26
safe? Am I safe?
22:27
And that self protect mode. And it doesn't necessarily mean
22:30
that there's always a threat, a present threat.
22:33
And so the importance of the somatic piece is to be able to
22:36
go, OK, I'm noticing that in my body is doing that thing where
22:40
it wants me to run or it wants me to protect myself.
22:42
And I need to be able to like get into my body so that I can
22:45
check the story that's going on in my head.
22:48
Does it actually match up with the reality of what I'm
22:50
experiencing right now? Or are the thoughts and stories
22:54
in my head related to that trauma that I've experienced
22:59
before? And so we need to be able to go,
23:02
OK, I'm this is where my thoughts are and listen to them
23:07
and give them space to be heard. And then also to go internal and
23:11
say, OK, am I safe right now? Can I sit through this?
23:17
And so that that phrase from Viktor Frankel between stimulus
23:23
and response, there is a space. And in that space lies your
23:26
freedom and power to choose or something like that may not be
23:30
exactly correct, but that's it. Like, that's it.
23:34
We have to be able to give ourselves the space between the
23:36
activation and how we choose to respond because your automatic
23:40
response is going to come online quick.
23:42
It's automatic. It is.
23:43
We don't even have to think about it.
23:44
It's where we go. And that's not always the most
23:47
helpful and it's not always accurate to the experience that
23:50
we're having. And so I think about going
23:54
inward gives us the ability to check the story with what our
23:58
body's telling us. And our body to me is more
24:01
trustworthy than our brain a lot of times.
24:06
And so the story in your head may not actually always be
24:08
accurate. Tim though, any thoughts on that
24:11
here in LA talk? Yeah, no, exactly.
24:14
Like we, we have a lot of thoughts or these stories that
24:17
we tell ourselves. And I think leaning into a lot
24:22
of when you start to get to a point of self-awareness and
24:24
where things are uncomfortable. And I know we mentioned sitting
24:28
with the discomfort. I would almost go to an A little
24:32
bit more and say leaning in to that sort of discomfort and
24:37
actually be curious, is this true Or is this just a story
24:40
that we've told ourselves? Am I going to be abandoned or
24:45
what's the worst case scenario? We have a lot of these stories
24:49
playing through our head that make things scary.
24:52
But if you really sit with those and are these true?
24:54
Are these stories true? I think you'll find a lot of
24:57
times that it's just it's just a false belief system.
25:02
Yeah, absolutely. Hallie, it's maybe a two-part
25:06
question, so take it anywhere you want to.
25:08
What did you notice about the men that we're doing the work
25:10
this week? Obviously, guys, if you're
25:12
listening to this and you're part of the intensive work, not
25:14
going to identify you. But what did you notice about
25:16
some of the themes with the men that we're doing it and also a
25:19
comparison of the men that just try to have it be about the
25:21
information, the psychological that don't do this kind of
25:24
stuff. Can you speak to that?
25:26
Yeah, I think This is why I like doing the intensive because if
25:31
you're going to pay the money and go to the effort, a lot of
25:33
these guys flew from across the country.
25:35
It was not an easy thing. They took time off work.
25:38
And so the guys that came that come to these intensives,
25:41
they're really invested in it and they are ready.
25:44
They want to learn and change. And we had guys at different
25:47
stages of the recovery at this intensive.
25:49
And what I, what I witnessed with all of them as they really
25:55
showed up with a willingness and an open mind and an open heart
25:59
was each of them shifted from where they started in just a few
26:04
days. Some of them may have been early
26:07
in their recovery journey. And some of them, like Tim had
26:11
done a lot of work and even started into the some of the
26:13
somatic work. And so I noticed a shift and I
26:17
was thinking about this as Tim was talking a minute ago.
26:20
The biggest thing that I think happened is what I witnessed is
26:24
that healing happens in community.
26:27
And when you allow your pain to be witnessed, there's healing.
26:32
Like that is where the healing happens when you allow your pain
26:36
to be witnessed. And so as these guys stepped
26:38
into vulnerability and really from the first activity on the
26:41
first night, I was like, yes, this isn't because right away
26:47
there was vulnerability and I was like, this is what we need
26:51
for healing to happen and for them to allow themselves to be
26:54
seen and for their pain to be witnessed.
26:57
And so I think that is probably one of the biggest things I, I
27:01
witnessed is that their courage that it took because a lot of
27:05
them were nervous. Most of them probably were
27:06
nervous walking in there that first night.
27:08
They didn't know what to expect from you and I.
27:10
They didn't know these other guys for the most part.
27:13
Maybe one or two of you had met in a group or something, but
27:15
never met in person, coming from all different experiences and
27:19
different stories. But then to come and to step
27:22
into that vulnerability, practicing vulnerability and
27:25
allowing them each other to see that, Tim, use the word cracked.
27:30
Literally, we saw like light getting in places that we hadn't
27:34
before. And that's because it's the
27:36
community aspect and the willingness to be courageous and
27:40
step into vulnerability with other people who are safe as
27:43
well. Yeah.
27:45
Absolutely. I'd like to share an analogy and
27:50
then we'll get any final thoughts you have, Tim, that
27:52
you'd like to share with us. And you, Hallie, the often
27:55
partners speaking to the betrayed partner.
27:57
It can be madding to watch your partner do all the groups and do
28:03
all the therapy and not see him be able to be empathetic at all
28:07
or not to the level that's needed for some relational
28:10
healing. And I'm what problems to my
28:13
memory, thinking about how a lot of times the men that I work
28:17
with, there was some early developmental pieces with with
28:23
emotional intelligence that they didn't really get like you loft.
28:28
It's very common to hear, Hey, how did your family in your
28:32
flight, your family of origin, how did your mom or dad show up?
28:36
What emotions could you feel? Were you allowed to feel?
28:38
What emotions were appropriate? And there's not a lot there that
28:43
was like, I could be hungry and I could be maybe sad, but that
28:47
was about it. There wasn't a lot of space for
28:50
the parent going to hold a child's emotion.
28:52
And then I'm brought back to how does a child get that?
28:56
How do they get to be emotionally attuned with
28:58
themselves and with others? And I'm thinking about the child
29:04
that has that's playing in the sandbox with their friends or
29:09
somebody, and they take the toy that they're playing and end up
29:15
fighting over it. And one of the kids smacks the
29:18
other kid over the head with a toy and they start to cry.
29:22
And if you want that child to learn not just socially, but
29:26
learn about emotion and you go, hey, look how you made that
29:30
person feel, they're feeling sad or they're feeling hurt.
29:35
If you try to help that child learn what emotions are by
29:38
showing what another person is feeling, they can't actually do
29:43
that. The way that they learn about
29:46
emotions is they experience what's going on inside of
29:49
themselves, not what they see other people experience.
29:52
And so these men are often doing work they didn't get a chance to
29:56
do earlier in life, which is learn what's happening inside of
29:59
them and learning what that looks like.
30:02
So a parent would go, hey, instead of somebody else doing
30:05
something, I can see that you're feeling something.
30:07
I can see that you're sad. I can see that you're angry.
30:11
But what is that? Is that, was that what you were
30:13
feeling? Where do you feel that?
30:14
What does that feel like? I just, I think it's really cool
30:17
watching you, Tim and these other men start to notice inside
30:20
their body what's happening that they never got a chance to do
30:22
that work. And now because they're aware of
30:25
what's going on inside of them, now they can actually start to
30:29
notice and see it inside of other people because they're
30:32
regulated themselves. They're aware of what's going.
30:35
So if you're just frustrated with your partner, like the
30:38
person that hurt you not being able to see you, it's because
30:43
obviously they are often they can't see themselves.
30:46
They don't know what's going on inside of them.
30:49
So it's really cool to watch the men do this work of noticing
30:51
those things that maybe it makes sense.
30:54
Did it even hard for us to articulate right now in a
30:57
podcast what they experience? Can I have to just experience it
31:00
for yourself? But very courageous work.
31:03
Anyway, anything on that Tim or any final thoughts?
31:07
Yeah, I know just that even the group of guys, I think there was
31:10
some guys that tears were coming up for the first time as long as
31:14
they could remember. And I, it was, they felt safe
31:19
enough to like really sort of, I think at first I was
31:23
uncomfortable, like what, what is going on?
31:25
But we were all sort of showing our emotions and being
31:28
vulnerable. It was a lot easier to, to do
31:30
that in a group. But that's why I think the men's
31:33
group being, being part of an intensive like that is, is very
31:37
healing. Like how he said the community,
31:39
the healing in the community because once one guy showed us
31:42
some tears, everyone else thinks it's or knows it's OK to start
31:47
selling their tears. Those I could say doesn't feel
31:51
like a safe emotion. Hallie, any other thoughts?
31:54
No, I just, I guess my final thought on it is that the best
31:59
way to help your wife heal is to do this healing work for
32:02
yourself. And so that's why I think, I
32:04
can't remember it was before we hit record or not, but Tim was
32:06
talking about like he thought we were just going to like practice
32:11
interactions of what it was like to be an interactive, A
32:14
triggering interaction with your spouse.
32:16
And while that is important, really the most impactful way
32:20
you can help your wife heal is to do your own healing work so
32:23
that you have the capacity to hold space for her pain.
32:27
And so I just, again, I, I said this at the beginning of the
32:31
intensive, but I just reiterate it like I have a lot of respect
32:33
and I honor guys who really have a desire to show up and do the
32:37
work and to especially the relational repair work after
32:40
this betrayal, because it's such an important piece for both of
32:44
you to do this work. So I appreciate you being
32:46
willing to share with us, Tim, and for coming and being an
32:49
impactful part of the intensive as well with your own courageous
32:53
vulnerability. Yeah, absolutely.
32:56
Thank you to both of you and everybody.
33:01
If you whatever questions that comes up to this, obviously if
33:04
you're in our group settings, Hallie has a helper heal group
33:07
and I think you have a couple of them, right, Hallie?
33:09
Yeah, I have two. Yeah, I have a couple of them.
33:11
This isn't advertiser. Have you join helper heal, but
33:14
if there are some environment so we can answer questions for you,
33:17
if you're in one of our men's groups, helper heal or phase one
33:20
or phase two group, we could tackle what comes up for you and
33:23
just ask us, say I'd like to talk about this part or that
33:26
part or we'll feel free to jump on our calendars and we're happy
33:29
to answer any questions you have.
33:30
But just chase the fear. Whatever scares you, whatever
33:34
feels the most comfortable, go after that run into it and just
33:38
have a space for all that fear. It's OK to be scared.
33:41
It's OK to and just have all the uncomfort because change doesn't
33:46
happen when you're comfortable, happens when you're completely
33:49
in the level of discomfort. All right, thanks to both of you
33:53
and we will talk to everybody soon.
33:58
Hey, thanks for joining us today.
33:59
If this is something that you connected with, I'd love to meet
34:02
with you more and talk about it. So what you can do is go to
34:05
chooserecoveryservices.com or check the show notes and there
34:09
what we can do is set up a quick conversation.
34:11
Thanks so much for listening to Beyond the Facade where we
34:14
unmask the authentic self.