Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Monster who murdered a 9-year-old girl still walking free. Who killed Debbie Randall?

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Monster who murdered a 9-year-old girl still walking free. Who killed Debbie Randall? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Under a tree, shielded from
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: rain and shadowed from view, is a small heart shaped marker.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Detective Morris Knicks knows the spot well, along with every
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  Speaker 1: detail of this little girl's brutal death. How do you
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: do something? Every detail except who killed Deborah Lynn Randall,
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  Speaker 1: who was a beautiful kid. You can look at a
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  Speaker 1: picture and you can say the innocence. Detective Nicks is
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  Speaker 1: part of a rare group of retired police officers who
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: specialize in solving Cobb Counties cold cases. And every one
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  Speaker 1: of them is familiar with Debbie's face and her case.
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  Speaker 1: Fiam Debora Lyn Randall from January A third grade little girl?
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  Speaker 1: Can you imagine that? Is there anything sweeter? A third
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  Speaker 1: grade little girl goes missing? Then the worst her body found,
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  Speaker 1: her killer, her rapist and killer has never been brought
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  Speaker 1: to justice. But there is one man who is unrelenting
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  Speaker 1: and solving the case of Debbie Randall, and he's joining
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  Speaker 1: us now. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
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  Speaker 1: you for being with us. It was a beautiful, balmy
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  Speaker 1: evening when Debbie Randall, a beautiful little girl who loved
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  Speaker 1: Barbie Dolls, her friends, baby dolls, cheerleadings. She went that
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  Speaker 1: evening to SuDS and Duds, a laundry matt close to
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  Speaker 1: her home. When she left that evening, she was never
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  Speaker 1: seen again. Take a listen to what an eyewitness says
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  Speaker 1: who comes forward years later, Santra, what made you decide
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  Speaker 1: to come forward this much later? My sister worst were
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  Speaker 1: Cobb County, Gale, and she told me the case had
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: been reopened. And I thought it had been closed all
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  Speaker 1: a long time ago. And I told her I saw
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  Speaker 1: it happened. And she said, well, somebody might be calling
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  Speaker 1: union in touch with you and I said okay. And
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  Speaker 1: that's when she was talking to a detective And I
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: called her one day and she said, well, this is
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  Speaker 1: going to this and she put him on the phone
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  Speaker 1: and he asked me if I would be willing to
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  Speaker 1: talk to detective next and from their own as as
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  Speaker 1: just connection to you, Santra, I know it was a
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  Speaker 1: while back, but please put your mind back to the
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  Speaker 1: evening Debbie disappeared. What did you observe lady might get
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  Speaker 1: her where they thought they got hurt. There was like
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  Speaker 1: a playground that was behind the laundromat and also a
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  Speaker 1: place there where you would go and get Line Morris
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  Speaker 1: to cut people's grass. And there was a trade right
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  Speaker 1: there beside the logger matt where there was no windows
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  Speaker 1: or anything on the side. I've seen this black pickup
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  Speaker 1: truck stop. The driver got out. Let this door open,
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  Speaker 1: Let the truck running. He ran. He went over to Debby.
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  Speaker 1: He grabbed her and she was kicking her feet and kicking,
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  Speaker 1: kicking real hard and screaming and yelling. And he had
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  Speaker 1: had her over his shoulder, so she was screaming and kicking.
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  Speaker 1: He threw her in the truck and then he almost
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  Speaker 1: ran over me. What did the truck look like? All
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  Speaker 1: I know is that it was a black truck because
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  Speaker 1: I was twelve years old. But I can remember it
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  Speaker 1: like it was yesterday. I've had nightmares about it. Ever,
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  Speaker 1: what did he look like? He was a white man,
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  Speaker 1: and I was maybe a hundred forty ft to eighty
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  Speaker 1: feet from him, so I couldn't tell you what he
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  Speaker 1: looked like, but I and I could tell he was white.
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  Speaker 1: And do you recall what he had on? He had
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  Speaker 1: a pants and shirt, but I, I mean, I don't
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  Speaker 1: other than that, I just looked long pants and a shirt.
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  Speaker 1: And I remember because um, I looked at somebody that
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  Speaker 1: was walking with me. I said, did you just say that?
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  Speaker 1: And when I heard her screaming yell, and I said, oh,
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  Speaker 1: somebody has done got in trouble. And I mean he
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  Speaker 1: almost like I said, he I must have fell because
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  Speaker 1: I got up. Was when I did. I accustomed as
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  Speaker 1: he went by me, but he went out. Did you
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  Speaker 1: think that was her father? I didn't know. I just
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  Speaker 1: thought it was. I didn't know because I didn't know
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  Speaker 1: Bebbie myself. I had not had had met her or
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  Speaker 1: anything like that. Is the way I found out about
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  Speaker 1: it was the next day. I had went to the
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  Speaker 1: little store that was in the marryat a place and
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  Speaker 1: her brother was ending out flyers asking if anybody had
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  Speaker 1: seen anything or hurt anything. And back then I told
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  Speaker 1: him that I would talk to somebody because there was
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  Speaker 1: no other way he would have been able to get
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  Speaker 1: out except to go if he I lived on Fourth Street,
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  Speaker 1: and if he went around Fourth Street, he would still
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  Speaker 1: hit further on street. If he had went straight, he
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  Speaker 1: would hit further on street. I had another girl with
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  Speaker 1: me is because we were taking her clothes to the
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  Speaker 1: launder back and I mean, I don't I don't know
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  Speaker 1: what happened was her because back then seeing that the
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  Speaker 1: keptas says, she was just I don't know, I don't know,
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  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what was going on with her.
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  Speaker 1: But when I saw her later on, and I mean,
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  Speaker 1: she had turned into an alcoholic, So you know, that's
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  Speaker 1: been thirty years ago at the time. Did you ever
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  Speaker 1: get to talk to police because that just came to
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  Speaker 1: my house when I lived on Fourth Street, and that
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  Speaker 1: was the last thing I heard anything. I mean, did
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  Speaker 1: you speak to them from there on? I didn't hear
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  Speaker 1: anything else. Did you tell the detectives what you saw? Yes?
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  Speaker 1: And that was then and then you never heard anything
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  Speaker 1: else about it. Joining us right now, the man who
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: has never let go of the Debbie Randall case, and
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  Speaker 1: our expert who says, now with DNA advances, there's a
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  Speaker 1: chance to catch her killer once and for all. With
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  Speaker 1: me right now, renowned detective Detective Morris Nicks, who has
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  Speaker 1: been working the Debbie Randall case since the beginning. Also
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: with me, the director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum joining me from l A. Alan Duke. Detective Nicks,
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  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, Detective. It means so
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  Speaker 1: much to us, and I know to you to find
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  Speaker 1: Debbie's killer, and I want to start at the very
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  Speaker 1: very beginning. Tell us what happened to your knowledge that
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: evening Debbie went missing? Okay, naturally I had a couple
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  Speaker 1: of series. One is that it was a random abduction.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, too is yet he knew her. I've agonized
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  Speaker 1: over this, for the abduction actually occurd would have been
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  Speaker 1: directly across the street and where she lived. I don't
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  Speaker 1: think whoever did this would have done it had he
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: known the family directed in front of the house. But
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: then again, being a crown with opportunities may have been
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  Speaker 1: his best and owned chance. I'm kind of starting to
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  Speaker 1: lean I don't know why that somehow the family knew
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  Speaker 1: this pushing. Maybe not intimately, but they were acquainted with him.
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  Speaker 1: If not, then he was someone that would have pointed
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  Speaker 1: into the neighborhood. This was a neighborhood where everybody knew everybody,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: as you know, nanswer, that's where neighborhoods are. So those
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: are the two theories that I've really wrestle with. But
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  Speaker 1: right now I kind of leaned toward the fact that
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  Speaker 1: he knew Deppy. Let me clarify Sean McCollum, we have been,
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  Speaker 1: of course watching carefully and stud being and investigating the
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: case of Molly Tibbitts murder, and cops said at the
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: get go, as did we. In a town that's small
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  Speaker 1: of Brooklyn, Iowa, two thousand people, Max, it had to
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  Speaker 1: be I thought somebody from within that town. Now, of course,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: there are always cases like Shasta and Dylan Gronie in Cordeline, Idaho,
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  Speaker 1: who lived out in the middle of a rural area
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  Speaker 1: and this perv comes along the interstate and spots Shasta
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  Speaker 1: at an above ground pool and decides to pull off
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  Speaker 1: the interstate and kill her whole family and take her
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  Speaker 1: and her brother. It does happen, but it's rare. So
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  Speaker 1: we've always thought the person was someone the Tibbets family knew. Well,
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  Speaker 1: it's somebody they knew of. It was a local that
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  Speaker 1: worked on a farm that was in and out of
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  Speaker 1: the local seven eleven and the grocery store and the
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  Speaker 1: dairy queen and the McDonald's. They didn't know each other
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  Speaker 1: by name, but they knew each other by sight, and
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  Speaker 1: that could very well be true in Debbie Randall's case.
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  Speaker 1: Cheryl definitely and you know, in the seventies, Nathy, Cobb
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  Speaker 1: County was not considered part of it. To Atlanta, Harts
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  Speaker 1: were extraordinarily rural. So this does seem to me like
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  Speaker 1: a crime of opportunity. I think he was aware of
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  Speaker 1: the laundrymat and perhaps the playground, and the way the
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  Speaker 1: witness describes him pulling up, leaving the car running, the
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  Speaker 1: truck running in the door open. He had a he
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  Speaker 1: had a target. He grabbed her and gone. But if
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  Speaker 1: trucks and Cobb County in the seventies would have blended
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  Speaker 1: in beautifully, Detective Nicks, Cheryl, listen to this. Debbie was
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  Speaker 1: nine years old when she vanished. It's been more than
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  Speaker 1: forty three years, and still her death remains a mystery.
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  Speaker 1: Her big brother remembers it vividly, remember that day, totally,
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  Speaker 1: remember going to everybody's house at evening, you know, looking
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  Speaker 1: for For the next sixteen days, Debbie's disappearance made national headlines.
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  Speaker 1: There were hundreds of people looking for this little girl. Then,
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  Speaker 1: on a rainy evening at dusk, Debbie was found dead,
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  Speaker 1: lying face down, wearing the long sleeved lavender dress she
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  Speaker 1: wore to school for the day. She was kidnapped, raped
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  Speaker 1: and murdered. He was nine years old when she vanished.
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  Speaker 1: It's been more than forty three years and still her
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  Speaker 1: death remains a mystery. Her big brother remembers it vividly,
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  Speaker 1: remember that nay to remember going to everybody's house, Eddie,
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  Speaker 1: you know, looking for For the next sixteen days, Debbie's
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  Speaker 1: disappearance made national headlines. There were hundreds of people looking
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  Speaker 1: for this little girl. Then on a rainy evening at dusk,
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  Speaker 1: Debbie was found dead, lying face down, wearing the long
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  Speaker 1: sleeved lavender dress she wore to school the day she
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  Speaker 1: was kidnapped, raped and murdered. What happened to Debbie Randall
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  Speaker 1: when her body was finally found, Many detectives say it
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  Speaker 1: was the worst crime scene they had ever seen. With me,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Detective Morris Nicks, who has never let go of the case.
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  Speaker 1: Also with me, the director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum joining me from l A. Alan Duke. Detective Nicks,
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  Speaker 1: we we got off on a tangent regarding theories and possibilities,
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  Speaker 1: but I want to go back to the facts. That's
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  Speaker 1: how every case is solved. So aren't at the beginning
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  Speaker 1: the evening, Debbie is kidnapped. Okay, nay. Debbie had gone
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  Speaker 1: to the laundry mat with her step bab and uh
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  Speaker 1: he gave her some change, put into the machine to
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  Speaker 1: the laundry and Debbie would collect the unused soap powders.
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  Speaker 1: So she got soap powders, put them in a box
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  Speaker 1: and she started out the door. And okay, wait a minute,
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  Speaker 1: what does that mean? What does that mean? Collect the
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  Speaker 1: unused soap powders? And I know all about the laundry match,
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  Speaker 1: Sheryl McCullum. You know, for a long time we didn't
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  Speaker 1: have a washer or dryer, and every Sunday before we
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  Speaker 1: go to Sunday evening services, we go by the laundry
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  Speaker 1: mat first and put in all the laundry and go
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  Speaker 1: to church, then come back and get it that evening. Now,
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  Speaker 1: there's no way you'd leave your laundry because you know
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: somebody would either steal it or take it and throw
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: it down, and you have to start all over anyway,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: what do you mean she collects soap? What did you
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: say she collected soap collector? She was if anybody left
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  Speaker 1: any a new soap powders and a box or a
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  Speaker 1: pack she would collect and oh, you mean like the
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  Speaker 1: detergent should put it all together? And then oh, oh,
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  Speaker 1: sweet little thing. Okay, Cheryl, that just I know somebody
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  Speaker 1: fought like the little box of powders, the just individual laundry.
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  Speaker 1: If they left them in that box, she ran around
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  Speaker 1: and connecting all of it so they would have more
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: detergent for next time. Correct, poor little thing. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I thought I was the only one left that would
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  Speaker 1: take home a doggy bag or or take the leftovers,
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  Speaker 1: or you know, poured the little bit of the catchup
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: and then you catch up bottle. Oh man, just breaks
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: my heart, little thing trying to save money for her family. Okay,
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: go ahead, back back to that. This is how you know,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: This is how we go off on tangent people, things
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  Speaker 1: just like this, the swoop powders. All right, office powders,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: it's my fault. Okay, back onto Debbie Randle that evening
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: she's at the laundry man, And I'm glad you clarified
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: the stepfather left. Am I happy he left? No, because
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: maybe if he had stayed, this wouldn't have happened. But
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, it's also exonerates him. He was
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: not there so and it's right across the street from
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: their home, right. Uh. Well, he took took a lot
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: of criticism over him leaving, but at that time that
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: it's just not the world that it is today. Um. Anyway,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: she collected the soap powder, and it's relevant because the
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: detectives found the box of soap powders on the ground
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and they had been scattered. And I've studied these photos
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: over and over and over again trying to look and
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: see if perhaps she slung them behind her and he
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: was a duck to her at a different point, or
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: if she just dropped. But we actually have the box
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: of chaps powders or box and evidence today. So she
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: walked out the door and one of the witnesses, one
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  Speaker 1: of her playmates, was gonna go with and they were
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: gonna go play dollars at Debby's, which was directed the street,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: and her older sister said, no, you're not going eitherhere.
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  Speaker 1: You're gonna stay here, gonna help me. Oh close, she said,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I saw Debby go out the door and start towards
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: her house. She said, I think someone called her back
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: over to where they were at and her knowing them,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: she went toward towards the truck, and of course we
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: got the eye. Witnesses said he grabbed her right there
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: at the truck. The so detergent where that where that
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: was found a significant and he abducts her. Uh, he
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: takes her. There's three points of interest in this case.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Where she was abducted, where she was salting, where she
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: was left. So he takes her to a place we
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: believe of Palace Foy Road. Um did she casting stone?
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: And he brutally assaults s Um. The medical examiner said
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: that she were bled to death. We think that he
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: used the foreign object. He redresses the buy me, takes
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: the body oh less than a quarter mile on Powlish
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Boy Road, stops and puts the body in the woods.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: So we know that she was breathing profusely. And I
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: wonder if maybe she was messing his truck up so
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: he just stops and get rid of the body, or
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: if perhaps he realized she wasn't litting and he stopped
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: the truck. I don't know, I've said before, in some reason,
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I just think he was hindered to jetter you river.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: I don't know why I feel that way, but it
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: was a straight shot. At the time, this was a
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: very rural area. There were no apartment buildings at that time.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Nothing really. Where he left the body was the former
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: parking lot of the Houston's restaurant. But he abducts her,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: he takes her to a different location. Assaults are relesses
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: the body and then moved somebody. I think he had
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: to move the body. He could not leave the body
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: there because people there knew he I think he he
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: he was an employee there. I just believe it. Um
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: you mean an employee at Dixie cast and Stone Correction.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: If you have any listening to anyone Dixie Cassy Stone
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two on Powerish Fool, please please contact
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: to Cheryl McCollum joining us. I think there are a
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: lot of big clues. Number one, I've been listening intently
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: to what former COB investigator Mars Dix was saying. A
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: big clue is that someone called her apparently called her
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: over to the truck. Did they call her by name
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: or did they say, hey, little girl, come here. I mean,
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: because that works too. Uh. The location is extremely important
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: where we think the assault took place. Number one. Number two,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: he readdresses the body number four. The body was then
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: dumped in the woods. And the location where a body
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: is dumped, where the crime takes place is extremely important,
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: especially where the body is dune. We've talked about a
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: million times. I'll talk about it again. For instance, Scott
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Peterson dumps Lacy's body in the San Francisco Bay. Why
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: he's comfortable there. That's where he goes fishing. He's a fisherman,
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: so he goes to where he is familiar. Same thing.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, you can look and look and look. It
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: happens every time. Uh. This last, I'll bring back up
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Molly Tibbitts. This guy Rivera, accused of murdering Molly, lived
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: about four miles from where Molly went missing. He drove
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: by the disposal site where he dumped her body every
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: single day. This is the place he knew of, where
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: he was familiar. If you look at crimes, that is
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: a pattern you can almost always count on. So um
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: in this case, we find her body in the woods.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Little Debbie Round, a third grade girl. It had to
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: be someone familiar with that spot. And last for you
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to evaluate Sheryl McCullum Dixie cast in Stone. If he
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: worked there, if somebody he knew weren't there, if he
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: had ever worked there, if he was a salesperson that
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: called on that that location. You know, fibers, soil materials
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: such as that they did not have surveillance video can
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: be used in an investigation. Now, those are a few
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: ideas I want you to analyze. Cheryl McCullum, Cheryl, but
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: free answer that. Take a Listen to our friend at
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: CBS forty six. This is Melinda Rhotor. I just remember
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: doing a lot of crime as time ticked on. The
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: case took many twists and turns. Every new lead brought hope,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: followed by disappointment for the Randall family, but never any answers.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: You try to forget about, but you won't. Never forget
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: about it. Detectives now have a short list of suspects
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: that they hope to narrow down to just one. In
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the meantime, Debbie's family believes someone may have information to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: help them crack the case. Please tell them has been
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: to all. We are talking about a beautiful third grade
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: little girl, Debbie Lynn Randall, just nine years old. I
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: can remember the twins at nine. They believe in Santa
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Claus the tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny still comes. This
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: is the world that little Debbie Randall lived in when
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: she was kidnapped outside a laundry matt right across from
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: her home. The box of detergent dropped right where she
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: was taken. Her little nine year old body was found
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: horribly abused with a foreign object. She was bleeding profusely.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Her body dumped in the woods. It's a cold case now,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: but one man has not given up. Detective Morris Nicks
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: and joining me very well known DNA expert, the director
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: of the Cold Case Research Institute, Cheryl McCullum also with me,
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: Alan Duke. Cheryl analyzed what we know so far and
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: why do you think there's a chance that with new
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: DNA breakthroughs we may be able to identify by her killer.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: He grabbed her and put her in the truck. He
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: forcibly then attacked her, which means he grabbed her and
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: touched her clothing repeatedly. Then he takes the time to
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: dress her back. So you're talking about touch DNA all
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: over her clothing. So at this point Detective Meet has
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: an opportunity to try the impact, which you know is
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: the latest and greatest technology to extract. Okay, hold on, Cheryl, Cheryl,
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: don't rub it in. But the other day you and
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: I were on a televised press conference with Sean gre
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: Levi's mother, and I have a bone to pick with you,
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. You let me say, h VAC the whole
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: way through the entire thing. H VAC the thing that
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: you do, you know, suck up water and dirt in
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: your garage. It's in fact, Emmazon mother, thank you Cheryl
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: McCollum for letting me make a complete each out of myself.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yet again, it's in fact now before you just sling
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: out all these all these terms, explain to everybody what
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: is an impact on what is so incredible about it?
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: Most departments, mine included, we use a swabby to try
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: to collect DNA, which looks like it's Q tip, and
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: so you just run around something, but you miss so
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: much doing it that way. The impact looks like a
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: very small, no bigger than a you know, small fish
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: tank that looks like you're doing um seem cleaning on
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: the carpet, And what it does is pushes the chemicals
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: down into the item and then it sucks it right
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: back up and it collects all the DNA perfectly, and
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I mean all the DNA, and it's the best tool
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: we have right now on cold cases period. In the stories,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: I cannot say enough about it, and the fact that
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: this is killer took such time to her and touched
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: her clothing multiple times because again he had to grab her,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: he had to fight her, he had the controller. He
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: undressed her, then he redressed her, then he had to
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: get her out of the car, and then again grabbing
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: her clothing, leaving the touch DNA um to take the
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: Mick has a wonderful opportunity to get evidence of who
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: this person is. So Detective Nicks, I want to go, Cheryl.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna follow up with you in a second, but
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: I want to. I want to go through how her body,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: How Debbie's body was found. I don't necessary, I don't
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: think it's true this time, but very often the person
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: that's involved, the team that's involved with finding the body,
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: they're all looked at as well as potential suspects. But
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: tell me how her body was found. A group of
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: fraternity guys are Southern Tech volunteered so just as many
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: people did, and they were the group for assigned scenario
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: and this was there. And the guy who from David,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Mike and Mike was a Vietnam bed distinguished Vietnam bit
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and he told me, he said, I was walked down
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: the side of the road and I immediately noticed what
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: looked like blag points and he said, so I followed it,
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: and he said he got down there and saw her
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: feet and he said, I stopped. I didn't want to
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: look at it, and so he went back and noticied
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: some anyone. Oh man, you know what, Cheryl. You know,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I don't even know how many people have asked me,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: but I can tell you how many cases I prosecuted,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: took to trial, investigated, uh pled, had hearings. I know
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: it's a fantastical number, Cheryl, but you know, a hundred
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: new felonies a week at the minimum when you're running
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: a courtroom for the state is uh an inner city Atlanta, UM,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: that would be four hundred a month. Times twelve is
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: four and you know you added up times ten years,
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: that's a lot of cases. And I would actually dream
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: about finding dead bodies, and it was always not a
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: good thing in the dream. It wasn't like, ah, I
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: found evidence. It was horrible when you come upon a
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: dead body. I always felt this sick feeling when I
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: would go to crime scenes, which I hid. But when
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: you come upon a dead body, it's a moment you
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: never forget, never especially one of a child, and especially
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: one of a child that has been brutalized. Um, your
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: mind can't even really wrap around what you're looking at.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And I think Detective Mix is on the right track
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: where he's concentrating on the company that he mentioned, But
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: I also think he needs to concentrate on women's that
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: are about fifty five. This is not the first child
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: this man has offered candy too. It's not the first
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: child in that area he approached. And if you can
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: somehow reach people that are having high school reunions or
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: whatever in that area, we need to ask other people
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: to the truck ever approach you. Does this composite look
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: like somebody you remember offering you candy or asking you
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: to look for a lost puppy. This person felt comfortable there,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: This person knew that area. This person went to where
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: he knew nobody would see him. Nancy, you remember a
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: year ago Sandra came forward. We heard from her earlier
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: in the show. I thought it was interesting how she
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: described why she came forward. Let's listen to that. Sandra,
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: you said that over these years you have had one
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: nightmare after the next about incident. What do you dream about?
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I was a street kid back then, and uh, I
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: mean I was that year. I would have been thirteen
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: years old, but my life had been really turned upside down.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Was my mom and dad getting divorced. I was just mean.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: I was just really really mean back then, I was.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: I really wasn't mean, man. I mean, I thought about
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: this for forty four years, you know, and I always
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: wondered where she was buried at And Detective next told me,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: And so I want to go out and her brave
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and tell her I'm sorry, because if it had been
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: just a few minutes later, I had been both cider.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: What is the bad dreaming have? It's this dream about
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: her and the things that she has had went through.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: The man who's done it. I can't see his face,
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: but I can see him, you know, his face is
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: it's like his face is black, but I can't he
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: would have said, I wouldn't say he was skinny. He
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: was a medium built, maybe even a little bit chunky.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I couldn't tell because of the shirt. But it just um,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: it's just about her. I mean, she was an angel
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: and it should not have happened for her. Detectives like
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: Morris next continue to dig for clues, praying their persistence
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: pays off if you're investigative for a detective, but through
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: a cop. That's what you loved for that phone called
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: that family saying, um, sitting down because invest some good
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: news for you. Welcome back, I Nancy Grayson. This is
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories, and I want to thank you again for
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: being with us. We are highlighting what's called a cold case,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: but when you hear about the brutal, really the savage
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: attack on a nine year old little girl being attacked
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: with a foreign object, nearly bleeding to death because of
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: the attack, her body dumped in the woods like trash,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: callously thrown away. Can you imagine that night, her parents
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: looking and looking and calling and calling and searching for her.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: And it's only some days later that volunteers find her body.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: What happened to Debbie Randall and has stumped police since
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: the time of the incident, But one detective has never
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: given up and he is joining us now. Detective Morris
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Nis also with me Director of the Cold Case Research Institute,
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, and of course Alan you joining me from
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: l A Detective Nicks. You say you want to deliver
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: good news. I mean there is no good news when
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: it comes to the death of a little nine year
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: old girl. But what is your dream? You have now retired,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: but you're still on the case. What is your dream?
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: I want justice for Babby. This is someone who is
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: not just a pedophile. He's a sadist. He's a co hearted,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: black clotted sadist. I want to know who he is.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I want her, I want her family who he is.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: For me, it's just bringing closure to the family. That's
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: pretty much it. Who is left of her family. Her
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: mom uh is still living and her dad is still living.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Both are in very poor health. And before she has
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: a couple of siblings that are living. And her mom
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: told me not long ago, she said, I want to
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: know what happened to my little Bold. And you know
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: that you you try to call an update the family,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: and you know when they answering the phone, they're hoping
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: that you're gonna tell them something bitter sweet. And it's
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: painful sometimes to call these families because you know, the
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: first thing you've got to tell them is I don't
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: have any answers. It's it's painful, and that's just um.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I really want to bring closure. And I had a
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: dream not long ago that I wouldn't loser. And there
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: was a press conference and I offered twenty six million
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: dollars to know who did it because that was on
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: something been locking and I just totally irrational or anything,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: but I just think, how well, just what a wonderful
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: day it would be if Wicky bring this to an end.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something, Marice, what you just said,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: it's actually bringing tears to my eyes. People that have
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: not been in the criminal justice sys where they've never
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: been a crime victim. It's so hard to explain. You
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: get attached to your cases. It those victims and their
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: families become part of your your life, part of the
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: fabric you're you're made from, you know, speaking of a dream, Cheryl,
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: One time I dreamed um I had moved to New
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: York to start a show with Johnny Cochrane. I had
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: left the District Attorney's office really only because my elected
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: district Attorney, Mr. Slayton was retiring and I did not
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: want to go be a defense lawyer, and I figured
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the next day that got elected was going to fire
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: all the top litigators. And boy was I right about that.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: But I remember someone said, hey, can we write your
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: life story? And of course was flattered. And that night
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: I had a dream. I dreamed I was in New
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Orleans and I was sitting at a restaurant and they
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: had an open window, didn't have a pain on it,
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: and a big New Orleans funeral started going by with
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: you know, the horses and the black plumage, and along
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: came instead of a casket, one one carriage after the next,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: full of all the victims I had ever represented in court.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: And in this dream they were as I knew them, shot, stabbed, strangled, mangled, burned,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: And I mean there was carriage after carriage after carriage
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: after carriage, and they were all looking at me. I'm like,
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: and I knew right then, I am not telling that story.
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: That's their story, not my story to tell. And I
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: turned the whole thing down. What I'm saying is it's
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: part of your fiber, it's part of your life. At
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: these cases means so much to you. And here is
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: Morris Nicks all these years later, dreaming he wins the
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: lottery and offering the whole thing to somebody to solve
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Debbie Randall's murder, Cheryl, And he means it, Nancy, he
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: lives it. This is part of him. This will tell
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: you exactly what that man is about. And you can't
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: say enough good about him. But I'm gonna tell you something.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: When he said he hates the call because he has
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: nothing new, let me tell you the reality. When that
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: mama picks up that phone, she knows that there is
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: somebody that still cares. There is somebody still working. There's
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: somebody still dedicating his life to find it out who
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: killed her child. And for that, there's no way to
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: thank you for Okay, It's true, Morris. And based on
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Morris's investigation, this is what we know about the suspect.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: He's a white male with a medium build. That evening
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: he wore long pants and a shirt. He drove a
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: black pickup truck. He may have taken Debbie to the
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: now cloth business Dixie Cast and Stone in Marietta, Georgia. Now,
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: there were many many day laborers who worked at Dixie
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Casting Stone, possibly the suspect. He may have worked there
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: anywhere between nineteen sixty eight in nineteen seventy four or
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: called on the company. I've got a tip line for
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: you seven seven zero five to eight three zero three
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: to seven seven zero five to eight three zero three
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: two Morris. What is the status of DNA in Debbie's case?
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: We've got submitted from or DNA. We haven't gotten a
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: launch about yet. I'm hoping that we'll get something anything
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: out of that. And Nancy, I want to touch him
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: that quick too, that I'm assigned to a cold case
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: unit and I don't work along this. I'm surrounded by
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: some incredible people who worked very hard. Of course, you
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: know we've worked on a lot of other cases, Brad
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: Clements being one of them. M congratulations on that one.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. Yeah, that's that's gonna be interesting.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just part of I'm a very very small part
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: of a great unit. And uh, this is married at
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: the police spartment. Case Mayor of PD has stepped up
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: and said, of whatever you need from Musk was here
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: for you, and that makes it a lot easier. And
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: if I could touch on something really quick, is that
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about this so much. Some people
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: think they hand you a case, and you work that case,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: and when that case is over, they hand you whenever. Well,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: you and I know the reality of it. You know
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: you're locked. You come into work in your job bart
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: and you high five and they give a kin more
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: and next thing you know, your desk is covered up,
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: and then you're trying to allocate your time and then
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: people start calling the world what are you doing on
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: my case? So time is just it's such a factor
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: in cold cases. Time, having the money and getting the
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: publicity keep it out in front of people. But detectives
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: all over America, prosecutors all over America don't just get
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: a couple of cases. And unfortunately there's there's more crime
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: than the people to welcome, and so a lot of people,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: I don't think really understand what detective and prosecutors to
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: deal with. Guys tipline seven seven oh five to eight
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: three O three two. I'm looking right now at the
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: photo of nine year old Debbie Randall. If you want
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: to know more about this case and how to solve it,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: go to crime online dot com. Detective Morris Knicks, Ryl McCullum,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: Alan Duke, and Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend,