Latest / Ducks Unlimited Podcast / ASCEND: Training a Hunting Dog While Raising a Family (Ep 766)

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ASCEND: Training a Hunting Dog While Raising a Family (Ep 766) · Ducks Unlimited Podcast

• 0:05
  Bethany Bethard: Hey, guys. Today, we're diving in the world of hunting dogs. I'm talking with our special guest, Destiny Thomason. She is my go to girl for all the dog questions. She runs all the hunt tests. She does canine, all the things. She's very knowledgeable on bringing up a puppy with a family. Those beginner tips, you're not gonna wanna miss this episode.
• 0:27
  VO: The following episode of the DU podcast features a video component. For the full experience, visit the Ducks Unlimited channel on YouTube. Subscribe and enjoy.
• 0:38
  Can we do a mic check, please? Everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. I'm your host.
• 0:46
  VO: Welcome to the ASCEND podcast, a podcast by and for women in the outdoors. Every episode delivers real stories, practical how to's, and a welcoming community to help you start, sharpen, or rediscover your passion for the outdoors. Authentic women, real stories, outdoor adventures, ASCEND. Presented by Ducks Unlimited, the leader in wetlands conservation. Your next adventure starts here, the ASCEND podcast.
• 1:21
  Bethany Bethard: Hey, guys. Welcome to the ASCEND podcast. I'm your host today, Bethany Bethard, and we are going to be talking all things gun dogs, family, just everything with our special guest today, Destiny. She's special to me. We actually are friends in real life.
• 1:36
  And she, to me, perfectly blends motherhood, family, and working dogs all while being a professional in the field herself. So, Destiny, if you would please introduce yourself to our audience. Tell us about, who you are, your business, and actually tell the audience how many dogs you actually do have and, how you got started in the hunting dog world.
• 1:58
  Destiny Thomasson: So I'm Destiny. I'm here in Guthrie, Oklahoma, and I had a dog training facility in Edmond. My business is primarily pet dog obedience, but I do dabble in a little bit of, like, competition, rally, AKC obedience, dog sports, hunt test with the right clientele. We have I had to, like, think about it because we recently lost one. We have seven dogs total right now and one cat.
• 2:29
  So it's a little bit of a zoo with a toddler, but we manage. I would say I probably got into dogs because of my grandparents. Both of my grandparents were pastors, but they also bred Chinese shar peis. If you've ever seen those cute little wrinkly dogs that look smushable. So when I first got into dogs, I showed dogs.
• 2:51
  If you've ever seen, like, the dog show on TV around Thanksgiving, that's exactly what I did. And then from there, as I got older, I started learning about different opportunities and different dog sports. And then throughout college, that job that I landed in Georgia out of Clemson was probably, like, the biggest step into the gundog world for me because I worked for a lab breeder, and I got into running UKC hunt test and AKC stuff for that breeder. And it was a great opportunity for me and opened up a whole new world to pursuing my passions that I did with my family, but also with animals that I'm super passionate about as well.
• 3:27
  Bethany Bethard: I love that. I love how everybody kinda, like it's just awesome to see how stuff kinda, like, works together to do something that you love now. So I I was looking at like, you mentioned the show dog world, and I was looking at some statistics, and it shows, like, 80 it's, like, upward to 80% of women are, like, dog handlers in that side. And then it's, like, a huge drastic difference for, like, the canine side. It was, like, 20%, and then a little bit upward, like, 30%, I think, for, like, service dogs, but there's no number for women in the hunting space.
• 3:58
  Like, what are you seeing in the field as far as that translating? Are you seeing, like, a natural progression of women getting dogs, or do you
• 4:05
  Destiny Thomasson: still think it's pretty male dominated? I would feel confident saying it is probably more male dominated still, but the amount of women that I keep meeting at new events, it's increasing every single year. You know? It went from me being the only girl in my chapter to now we've got about five. You know?
• 4:24
  We've got girls coming to visit. I think I it's growing because people are getting more confident, and they're saying other girls compete in the sport, and they're thinking, you know, this might be something that I wanna try. And I love that because I think it's needed for a variety of different reasons that we'll probably tackle in this podcast. But, I would definitely say that the women presence is growing, and the men may or may not like it.
• 4:49
  Bethany Bethard: Yeah. I think that's everywhere in the hunting world. I love that. You know, I think for women, the natural like, for me, you know you know, we would talk about, like, women are the fastest growing demographic and all those things. But for me, in my hunting journey, I almost felt like I got to the point where I was handicapped because I didn't have my own dog.
• 5:08
  You know? I didn't wanna, like, rely on always inviting you too. Always. You know? But, like, we lived apart, and I was like, man, like, I'm gonna be losing this resource.
• 5:18
  You know, I can't always count on having said. I feel like it was like a natural progression. So I think that's also where I see, you know, a lot of the women that I run into are either brand new, and they're just, like, diving headfirst into the hunting world and get a dog, or they've been in it a while, and they're like, I kinda wanna take this next step. But something I admire about you is you really blend the pet and working dog so well. Like, you I could meet Daco at Lowe's and never know that he was an amazing blood tracker.
• 5:47
  So how do you what would you say to, like, women that might be a little, like, apprehensive of bringing a working dog in as, like, a family pet too? What would you what some tips would you say?
• 5:58
  Destiny Thomasson: Probably the most important tip for me is gonna be doing your research on the breeds that you're interested in and finding a breeder that's gonna educate you and hold your hand along in the beginning. So finding the right breed that matches your family's lifestyle outside of hunting is super important. You know? You've got higher drive dogs. You've got lower drive dogs.
• 6:18
  You've got the medium drive dogs. But for me, it doesn't matter how drivey a dog is. Any dog can learn an off switch. It's just gonna take the right patient handler to accomplish that. But I would say definitely picking the right breed is the first step in, you know, tackling that.
• 6:37
  And then the next thing would be just having, you know, structure and routine in your home. If I let Jocko run wild in here, he'd flip over the couch. If I put him on place, he'll settle and he'll chill out eventually. At seven, you know, you'd think he'd start settling down, but he hasn't.
• 6:55
  Bethany Bethard: So a couple of things. Okay. So walk us through so your mom and, you know, all of us, most of us, even if we're not moms, we're just busy. So Yeah. Walk us through, like, a day to day.
• 7:07
  Because I think one of the big things that was overwhelming, especially for me, I was like, man, I'm gonna have to dedicate so much of my time, but you just naturally live and breathe the dogs being there. So, like, what is your day to day, like, example of how you're morphing everyday life, work, dogs, family? Like, what does that look like for you? What would you say to the overwhelmed woman here?
• 7:32
  Destiny Thomasson: My toddler has honestly, like, really been a blessing and helped with my schedule. She's a sleeper. So right now, she's sleeping, like, nine to nine. So I take advantage of that, and I get up pretty early. That gives me time to feed, rotate all of our dogs.
• 7:46
  Not all of our dogs get along, and, again, that's another lifestyle that not everyone, you know, wants to deal with. But for us, it's okay. We're used to it. It's wouldn't be anything new if we added another aggressive dog to the house. But for me, like, that six to nine, those hours gives me time to work my dogs, get chores done, do some daily devotionals, and then, like, really focus in and get some things knocked out.
• 8:11
  And then once she's up even, she's so happy to be a part. Like, I'll save some dog bowls for her to help me feed the dogs because she wants to be a part. She sees me doing all the things, and she wants to do them. She's so funny too. She'll go grab a leash, and she's ready to go for a walk because after we have breakfast, that's what we do every day.
• 8:29
  And then, like, our trips to the lake as a family, letting the dogs free run. Like, she wears her little whistle, and she's blowing it, and she's just having the best time. So I think just trying to find ways to include your family while you're trying to get things done is the best way to go about it. And then, again, you know, having a helpful husband is also beneficial because when he comes from home, from work in the afternoons, he's more than happy to hang out with her if I wanna go, like, do something without her. You know?
• 8:57
  I can get a lot of stuff done with her. As a mom, you know, sometimes it's a little better to do things alone.
• 9:04
  Bethany Bethard: For sure. So I kinda wanted to touch on this too as you're talking, introduction. Like, you know, I feel the same way. Like, you just it's a lifestyle, so it's natural progression to bring your kids in on it. You work a lot with foster dogs too, the GSP Oklahoma rescue.
• 9:20
  What would you say to a family that might be bringing either, like, an already trained dog or a dog that they're like, you know, foster to adopt situation that, you know, that they wanna work with? That's a little different than having, like, a puppy that you raise.
• 9:34
  Destiny Thomasson: You
• 9:34
  Bethany Bethard: know? What was your what's your tips on in in that scenario?
• 9:37
  Destiny Thomasson: My tips in that scenario, started dogs are definitely a real popular thing right now. Not everyone has the time for a puppy, and I totally get that. So this is a great option for people in that position where they wanna buy a starter dog and integrate them into the house. I always say more structure in the beginning is the best way to make things work. You know, making sure the dog's crate trained, creating some free time out in the house with the family, going on paired walks, hand feeding to do a little bit of obedience to build that bond and engagement.
• 10:09
  So the difference between puppy raising and buying a started dog is some people worry about, like, missing out on that relationship with their dog. And for me as a handler and as a trainer, if you don't have relationship and engagement with your dog, you have nothing. You know? You've gotta have that foundation block to build the trust and respect together and then to become a great team. So my best advice would be if you're buying a started dog, find someone who knows more than you to show you how to work your dog, make sure you understand what you're asking of your dog.
• 10:41
  The big thing is people they'll buy a starter dog, but then they don't know a single command. They don't know what the dog is supposed to do, or they didn't get, like, a full we'll call it, like, a go home lesson. So maybe just making sure you find a trainer or a mentor to piggyback you along so that you understand how to handle the dog.
• 11:01
  Bethany Bethard: I wanted to talk about, you know so what you talked you you mentioned, like, obedience from the beginning. What are your, like, no gives on, like, the beginning of a puppy? You know, crate training, like you've mentioned, it's like, what are those things that you really like, there's no compromise on?
• 11:18
  Destiny Thomasson: Yes. So the puppy puppy board and trains are one of the number one things that I'm most sought after for as a trainer. A puppy's foundation is, like, literally the pavement to that dog's life. And for me, I take, like, a lot of pride in being able to provide owners with that and with my own dogs. So for me, the second that a puppy comes home, I actually do things a little different.
• 11:41
  I used to start immediately with crate training, but now I do, like, a little x pin setup, say, like, a four by four in our living room or something. It's just like a small gated off area in my home. It'll have a crate in it, and that's just the puppy's area. Because I want the puppy to be immersed in our daily lifestyle, seeing the cat, hearing Vera, you know, just watching us do what we do instead of just being in the crate. And I found that transfer over to crate training is it's a world of difference.
• 12:09
  From there, though, the number one things for me are play, play, play, building relationship through hand feeding, whether you're feeding half of your puppies breakfast to it and then letting them eat the rest, and then threshold work. So a lot of things in puppy training transfers over to and very important things when they're older. So when I say threshold work, think about, like, a puppy darting out of the back door or busting out of its kennel. So when we're working on threshold work, I want puppy to stand there gently, calmly until I open the door and release him to come out. So that, as an example, it's gonna be really easy to teach that puppy woah, which is a stand stay when we're hunting, like, when they're on point.
• 12:50
  We want them to stand stay and not fuss the bird. So something as simple as that, like, not many people would think that would transfer over to that, but it does. So that's probably super important to me. No jumping is probably another from the beginning. It's a hard we don't do that.
• 13:09
  No countersurfing, and then just, like, not missing out on the basics. I feel like a lot of bird dog people, they're afraid to put too much obedience on their puppy. And for me, there's no such thing as that. Dogs are capable of doing multiple things without conflict. So making sure your puppy's got, like, the basics of a sit and a stand and a down and loose leash walking next to you, and then maybe not a total heel as a puppy, but you can at least reshape that behavior and lure them with food so they can transfer over to, like, a more pretty fancy heel when they're older.
• 13:43
  Bethany Bethard: Okay. I wanna switch gears here a little bit and talk about, like, in the field. So, you know, my dog's ears are turned off, and we have friends with dogs' ears are turned on. That's probably not the only hurdle that people are having. But so when you're transferring, like, you know, we do the obedience at home.
• 13:58
  Now we're in the field. We wanna do some field training, recall, things like that. What are your, like, first introductions, you know, or even, like, refresh of maybe a dog that's, like, preparing for season? Like, what are you what's your first, like, go to things for that, you know, in the field outside of the home?
• 14:15
  Destiny Thomasson: So for a puppy, a puppy is never off of a long line with me until it has a reliable recall. So that long line, whether it be twenty, thirty, forty, fifty feet, it's just an extra amount of length that I can grab and reel the puppy in. I like to start utilizing a long line just because it doesn't give the puppy the option to choose between whether it wants to come back to me or if it wants to keep chasing the butterfly so we can reel it in. So setting yourself up for success and always just having, like, a backup plan like that. You know?
• 14:46
  If you take your puppy to the lake and you just let her rip, nobody knows how that's gonna go until something bad happens. Right? I actually do have a funny story. I'll throw it in here. We go to Lake Arcadia, which is a local lake pretty often, and I have one memory of Moxie that just cracks me up to this day.
• 15:04
  I think she was about five months old, and she had just started kinda shutting those ears off. And I wanna say it was, like, early well, yeah, it was early summer, and there were baby ducks at the lake. Moxie decided to swim after the baby ducks. And, of course, mom and dad are, like, distracted flying, you know, trying to get her away from them. Homegirl had no nothing was getting her off of those ducks.
• 15:29
  She's not e collar trained. She doesn't have on a long line. And at this point, she's, like, halfway in the middle of, like, Arcadia. I'm freaking out. Jay my husband's freaking out.
• 15:39
  JT ended up jumping in the lake swimming after her, and then they both had to get rescued by a boat. So as a dog trainer, that's super embarrassing. I should have never put her in that position to begin with because it could have been very dangerous. You know? She could have drowned.
• 15:57
  But looking back, like, a little scenario like that is, well, if I had a long line on her, then maybe I could have prevented that from ever happening. So for a puppy, just setting yourself up for success, making sure you've got the resources of whether a check cord or a long line. And then for an older dog getting back into the field, like, when we're doing season prep, I could probably talk about this for a whole hour. There's just so many things that are so important here to touch on. I hope I don't miss something.
• 16:26
  For me, keeping your dog conditioned in the off season is probably one of the most important things. You see so many people they throw their dog in the kennel or in the crate, and then they don't touch it until it's time to go hunting. And then they're frustrated because their dog's busting birds or it's not listening to them. Right? Dog training never stops.
• 16:44
  When you've got a hunting dog, you know, that thing is not only a companion, but it's also a tool. And if you put that tool away and it's just you know, it's not getting used, it's gonna need a refresher year long, year round. That relationship has to stay there. The black and white communication of what's expected out of them needs to be, like, you know, worked on throughout the year. So for me, it's just making sure your pup's not getting overweight.
• 17:10
  I always cut my dogs back in the summer just because Jocco, he'll gain weight pretty easily if he's not out free running. Because, I mean, you gotta think, he goes from running 14 to 20 miles a day to, like, two miles a day. That's a big difference on his body. So for me, if you don't have the time or it's too hot because you gotta think about in the summer with the heat, we don't want dogs to bloat. We don't want them to overheat or exert themselves.
• 17:36
  Swimming is probably one of my favorite things to do. It might sound silly, but there's a bunch of, like, fit dog exercises some vets have come out with. Those are so simple, and you can literally do them in the living room. That'd be something else cool to talk about at another time. But there's just so many different ways to keep your dog in shape throughout the summer to keep them prepped for the fall.
• 17:58
  Because if your dog's out of shape and it's overweight, it's gonna be extremely more prone to exhaustion, injury, and possibly bloating. I mean, bloat is possible any time of the year, but especially in the summer. So aside from fitness, I would say just making sure, like, that training never stops, like doing the basics, utilizing different things in the house that you would do in the field, how I use the threshold work earlier. You know? If your dog is sloppy with its holds, maybe do a little fun hold work in the living room.
• 18:29
  Have them hold the remote. Have them hold a drink for you. Have them retrieve something silly. You know? It doesn't have to be birds and bumpers all the time.
• 18:37
  You can make it fun and it still be black and white training to your dog. It's still the same picture. I think that's important. And then just thinking about, you know, people you're hunting with. For me, now that I've gotten more into this, I do hunt with other people, so I wanna make sure my dog's respectful of other dogs' peep other people's dogs.
• 18:57
  So maybe, like, free running with some friends, joining some local training groups, trying to get that, like, picture of endgame and practice the way you would actually hunt. You know? Alright. This is
• 19:09
  Bethany Bethard: a really good time to take a break, hear from our sponsors, and we'll be back.
• 19:20
  VO: Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast sponsored by Purina Pro Plan and Bird Dog Whiskey after these messages.
• 19:37
  Bethany Bethard: Alright, guys. We're back. I'm here with Destiny Thomason, and we are talking all things dogs. And I wanted to kinda hit on something you already mentioned about Moxie and, like, learning, like, your dog's personality, like, I'm, like, learning, I call her Keter now, but Nikita. You know, you talked about her swimming up to the mill, like, that was such a testament to like, we've hunted with her so many times, and she was, like, mad that we were leaving.
• 20:01
  You know, like, she had that drive that was such such so, like, to see that at five months old, I was like, oh, yeah. That sounds like her. You know? I think, you know, we've been on some pretty crazy hunts together, actually. Like, I was gonna hang up my turkey.
• 20:16
  I was gonna talk about that. You're, like, six months pregnant and, like, crawling. You know? And I remember getting up that morning and Moxie's seen us getting ready, and she's, like, whining in her crate because she's nuts. And I'm like,
• 20:28
  Destiny Thomasson: it's not
• 20:28
  Bethany Bethard: even duck season right now. We're actually going turkey hunting. We just had to drive three hours to get there. You know? And I just remember being like, man, I love that dog, and she's not even mine.
• 20:38
  But, yeah, I love that. And I think, you know, and the women women in this space, we find community, and I'm seeing more, you know, kennel days. I know there was one in Oklahoma recently. Was, like, all women, like, a women, like, dog bring your own dog. We're gonna work on this.
• 20:56
  And I love seeing that in the community. And we talked about this in the last podcast, but I think what women do well is the online community. And, like, what are you seeing in, like, that space as far as, like, tips and women just building relationships and, like, sharing, you know, their dog experiences online?
• 21:15
  Destiny Thomasson: I definitely think that that is encouraging more women to come out and join different clubs and visit and see the things in real life. I think they see their friends or family members online doing these things, and then it's easy to reach out and inquire like, man, how did you get into that? And then run together and maybe form a new friendship or find a new passion from it. There are a bunch of really great women based dog training groups via Facebook and on different forms of social media. But I feel like as a girl, sometimes you feel more comfortable connecting with other women and asking them questions that you might feel uncomfortable asking men.
• 21:53
  And I think that the online presence has definitely helped in that situation for sure, especially with younger girls.
• 21:59
  Bethany Bethard: What do you do to address like a dog that's, like, gun shy? You know? Or introducing the gun to the dog like this. Like, what do what is your know, I feel like that's, like, something that I keep seeing come up, and I haven't even done that with Nikita yet. You know?
• 22:12
  What is something, you know, that you would say for, like, the loud noises and things like that?
• 22:18
  Destiny Thomasson: So for me, I'm pretty blessed because I live right next to Silver Leaf, the shotgun course. Right? So with my own litters, I'm taking puppies over there at five to eight weeks old and setting them up in the parking lot and letting them eat their food, hearing all that at, like, a great distance. You know? So when I send puppies home, my best advice to owners or even say I get a client that's struggling and not sure how to introduce their dog to gunfire, if you have access to a place like a shooting range or a shotgun ski course.
• 22:55
  Just go hang out in the parking lot. Take your puppy. Take a ton of, like, very high value treats, beef liver, cheese sticks, hot dog weenies, anything of that sort, and just make it super positive. Use food or even play, and some people don't think about it like that. But if your puppy is so focused on engaging and having that relationship with you, they're tuning all that outside noise out.
• 23:18
  And then for me, what I like to do is I just kinda like to bring the noise closer and closer and closer, and then eventually shoot over my puppy at a training day. Right? I found that that seems to work really well. I have worked with a handful of gun shy dogs, and I've had some great success stories. And I've had one dog that I just I think hers was more a temperament flaw.
• 23:44
  Some people say gun shyness is a training error. And, yes, I would typically agree with that. But every once in a while, some dogs have, like, some screws loose. You know? They're not all there.
• 23:57
  So sometimes it can be genetic, and that's not to, like like, if your dog is really struggling and already scared of the world, then, you know, we don't even need to be thinking about gunfire. We need to be confidence building, doing, like, different environmental exposures to footing and building their confidence, going up and over funny things, and then maybe introducing noise. You'll hear some, like, outdated methods of bang pots and pans or drop spoons on the floor, and you can. So for me, those are all a part of a puppy's startle response. So when I'm training puppies, I do a startle response test because I'm looking for that reaction.
• 24:35
  And what we're looking for is how quickly they recover. So does a puppy hear it and check it out and moves on? That's an excellent startle response. Right? Does a puppy stop, freeze, and then move on?
• 24:49
  Okay. We can work with that. But if a puppy startles, freaks out, and, like, wants to get out of here, that's gonna be an issue. You know? So you can start small with, like, dropping a clipboard or a dog bowl at a distance again and just kinda seeing where you're at with your starter response, but my best advice would just be exposing them to the gunfire at a distance.
• 25:09
  Bethany Bethard: I love that. That's a really good idea. And just like something that's super practical and probably doesn't cost anything to go sit in a parking lot and introduce your dog to gunfire. So a lot of women are actually starting, like you said, to, like, what we know are coming together and doing hunts. And that's actually where I met you first was a dove hunt that we went on, and you brought your own dog.
• 25:31
  And the guys there were like, okay. You know? Like so you you talked about bringing them bringing your dog around other dogs. Do you see, like I mean, I we I've never been in that situation where there's, like, conflict, but is there normally conflict? You know?
• 25:49
  Yes.
• 25:50
  Destiny Thomasson: It's very dependent on the individual. You would think that an outfitter or a guide wouldn't have an aggressive dog out, you know, if they are having a client bring another dog, but you just as a handler, you know what your dog's quirks are. Dogs are competitive creatures. You know? Sometimes there can be some competition or aggression over retrieving game or taking game from another dog.
• 26:12
  Those types of things are, like, big no no's for me. Like, if your dog thinks that I can just go take a duck out of another dog's mouth, that's a problem. You know? You your dog probably shouldn't be out hunting with someone that you don't know or stealing someone else's point in the bird dog world. You can go different ways with retrievers or pointers.
• 26:30
  You know? You don't wanna be that person, and you go on a hunt with everyone, and then your dog busts all the birds. How embarrassing would that be when everyone else's dog's holding steady being perfect? So I think the best thing there is just trying to train together with either friends and see how your dog does with them if they've never had an opportunity to be around other dogs or just those training days. We haven't really touched much on that, but most states, you've got a ton of UKC retriever clubs.
• 26:59
  We've got NAFTA. We've got, AKC hunt test and field trial clubs. We've got so many different venues where individuals could go visit and kinda find their village. And then in that situation and scenario, you've got people you trust and that you've gotten to know, and you can run your dog with their dogs to kinda get a better idea of how they're gonna respond.
• 27:19
  Bethany Bethard: And is that where you're seeing, like, the growth of women kinda, like, adding to the groups as all those groups you just mentioned? Where can somebody find those? Like, you know
• 27:28
  Destiny Thomasson: So, honestly, Google. If you just hopped on to Google and you were, like, pointing clubs near me or retriever clubs near me, if you're not familiar with, like, NAFTA or NAFTA or, like, a specific venue, AKC, UKC, both of them have different hunt tests and pointing dog venues. It really just kinda depends on what your goals are gonna be with for your dog, but just getting out there and visiting all of them will help you kinda make that decision of what you might find fun.
• 27:57
  Bethany Bethard: So you've had a lot of different dogs. And so let's kinda, like, back up to before even getting the dog. What are your, like, questions you should ask yourself when you're trying to find what breed is best for you? You know, we kinda touched on it a little bit late earlier, and I've been around a lot. It was kind of for me the same thing because it's something that my husband, he really wanted, you know, a lab.
• 28:18
  He was like, we should get a lab. You know? And I was like, I don't know. We should no. Get a lab.
• 28:22
  You know? So we're like, we kinda had that, you know, back and forth, and the versatile dog does work best for me because I'm like, I don't do just one kind of hunting, and I never know what I'm gonna do, and I wanted something that was feather and fur. How would what would you what is your, like, kinda go through as someone that's, like, in the process of kinda dabbling of what kind of dog they want?
• 28:42
  Destiny Thomasson: So I feel like almost everyone's got an experience with a lab. Right? And if you're primarily a duck hunter, I would say you can't be a well bred lab for strictly duck hunting. But if you're someone like us and you do a variety of different things, you're interested in game recovery, you like to do upland hunting. You also like to duck hunt.
• 29:05
  There are so many different versatile hunting breeds to choose from, and they are all different drive levels. So if someone was interested in pursuing a dog with many talents, I would definitely say joining their local NAFTA chapter to try to meet as many of those different breeds as they can. Getting on the NAFTA website, they've got a great list of all the breeds that are included in their registry and kind of, like, a good rundown on temperament and drive levels. So you could even go from that if you're going based off of, like, a look of a dog. You know what I mean?
• 29:37
  If you like beards or if you like slick, then you can kind of make a list of, oh, hey. You know what? I like Poudel pointers. I like wire hairs. I like griffons maybe, and then kind of reach out to different breeders and see if you could meet those dogs in person.
• 29:52
  Most breeders are pretty open to you meeting their dogs, especially at different events. So say you have a small NAFTA chapter or it's primarily one breed or another, like our chapter is primarily wire hares and short hares. So if you wanted to come and meet something unique or different, you probably won't ever meet one at our chapter unless we have a test day. But reaching out and asking breeders to come and meet their stud dogs and their females that are being bred, getting an idea of what their temperament looks like, because one dog might be wonderful, and then you go and meet another one, and you're questioning whether or not you even like that breed anymore.
• 30:30
  Bethany Bethard: So Okay. Less than
• 30:31
  Destiny Thomasson: one who's
• 30:32
  Bethany Bethard: out there now. The the NAFTA chapter is, like, for the people that don't know what that is, is the National American Versatile Dog Association. Right? So I think we're gonna hear us say that, and they're gonna be like, what is that? Because, you know, somebody knows that's new that, you know, is one of our listeners might not know anything about that.
• 30:51
  So let's talk about, like, on a hunt. And this actually happened to us on the dove hunt. You were, like Oh, boy. Buzzing Moxie. She had we had you had taken her collar off, and you were like, where is she?
• 31:05
  Because we weren't shooting any birds. And she's, like, down with, like, another couple who was shooting birds and, like, retrieving them without even collar training. And you're like, oh, there she is. You know? Have at it.
• 31:17
  And I love that because she was like, I'm not sticking with him. We literally did not shoot any birds on anything that day.
• 31:23
  Destiny Thomasson: Yeah.
• 31:23
  Bethany Bethard: So, like, talk about some hunts that you've been on. You've been on, like, flooded timber. You've done upland. Like, you've done a lot of different things. You know?
• 31:33
  What are your, like, favorite things to do?
• 31:37
  Destiny Thomasson: Duck hunting wise, you can't be a flooded timber hunt, in my opinion. Like, I would rather do that than ever hunt a rice field or sit on the side of a pond for the rest of my life. There's just something so special about watching mallards drop in and the dog hid it in the trees and just working in that. It's just such a beautiful environment to hunt in. Aside from that, I would probably say I haven't really gotten to hunt out of state very much, so I didn't I didn't really get into upland hunting until I moved here to Oklahoma.
• 32:10
  Because in South Carolina, like, resources are very limited there. You know, we've got a ton of plantations. It's a lot of guided hunts, and I just wasn't really into that. So when I moved here, that's actually kinda what opened up my heart to finding a versatile hunting dog is I was like, oh, wow. We have quail here?
• 32:26
  That's crazy. Oh, and we have pheasant? Oh, man. I wanna, like, get into that. So I love quail hunting.
• 32:33
  That's super special. But the more that I've gotten into this over the last seven years, pheasant hunting is, like, really fun. It's kind of like a running gun kind of fun thing. Like, you know, you can chitchat. You can have fun.
• 32:46
  You can you don't have to be as stealthy. Quail, I feel like, are a little more spooky. They don't hold as well as wild pheasants and then grouse. So when I went to my first German Wirehair Pointer National, we got to go to Idaho, and that was my first time ever being that far west. And during our hunt test, Moxie and Jocko both found wild cubbies of sage grouse, and that was the coolest experience to me ever.
• 33:11
  I have wanted to go back to hunt Idaho ever since then. We haven't yet, but it's on the list. So I would say, I don't know, really just any hunt with the dog, obviously, is enjoyable for me, but I do love pheasants and ducks
• 33:28
  Bethany Bethard: For sure. And a tiger. I'm excited about getting in duck hunting, but now we're in in Georgia, I'm like, there's gators. So everybody's like, it's it's not that bad. You know?
• 33:37
  Destiny Thomasson: You're just gonna have to come back here and visit. I know. I know. For sure.
• 33:41
  Bethany Bethard: I yes. It's on the list for sure. Our little honey hole, we're gonna have to hit that up for duck season. That's, like, perfect. I think that's, like, a really great place to train too, and I was really hoping to get my dog out there.
• 33:53
  We have a secret little place in Oklahoma that's always good and well, not always. Good. Not one of our six inches of ice. We have to cut. We still got ducks that day, but it was pretty terrible.
• 34:04
  Was, like, negative three. The dog was not very happy with us. But we actually had a walkout and get a lot of ducks that day. Yeah. Let's say let's talk about, like, your your encouragement to someone that may be on the fence for even getting a dog at all.
• 34:23
  You know? I think as as women, we doubt ourselves or maybe our ability. And and especially in the hunting you know, I feel like we're always trying to scale upward. What's your encouragement for someone that's just, like, on the fence to to take that initial jump?
• 34:37
  Destiny Thomasson: Honestly, I would say confidence is key. Where there's a will, there's a way. I will say it was definitely extremely challenging for me the first six months after Vera Grace was born, trying to juggle that new lifestyle of at that time, I think we had nine dogs and a newborn. I was really overwhelmed at times. And then, you know, every single day, I just kinda took it in strides of, okay.
• 35:01
  You know, we've got some changes. I don't have as much time for the dogs, and they were okay with that. So I think a lot of people get overwhelmed because they feel like this sounds like a full time job. Right? And, really, it's supposed to be fun.
• 35:13
  Dogs, as long as their needs are being met, they're totally fine with off days. They don't need to be ran every single day of the week. You know? They can have some off days. They can spend time in the crate and just being a pet dog and then jump right back into training as long as things are black and white and clear with no issues.
• 35:30
  So I think a lot of women get overwhelmed with the time that they think they need to put into a puppy or especially a hunting dog. And it can be time consuming, but it is also something you can do on your own time. You know?
• 35:43
  Bethany Bethard: I think a big thing is, like, we feel like we have to be an expert right away at everything. Yes. You know? Yes. And I I found that and it's been really humbling in my outdoor journey is, like, I'm just not gonna know everything.
• 35:56
  You know? I'm just not gonna do it. And I feel like we see that a lot. Like, just as women, you know, we do know a lot of things, but there's this it's hard. You know?
• 36:05
  Especially whenever you're like you like you said it's a male dominated space. I'm joining a chapter. I don't really know everything. You know? And and really finding that mentor in that space.
• 36:16
  We didn't really touch on it. You kinda mentioned, you know, you you do you have, well, several several litters since I've met you, and you and you're in that space. I don't know if this is necessarily the people that we're talking to. But as far as, like, going to get a puppy, you've decided on the breed. You've decided kinda like your training plan, like, what you're gonna do, and the breeder gives you a choice.
• 36:39
  You kinda helped me with this before, but, you're going to pick the puppy out of the litter, and maybe you have an option between a couple females or a couple males. What is your that's the one that's for you type thing? Like, how do you know?
• 36:51
  Destiny Thomasson: So I can relate to this because Moxie was not supposed to be my puppy. I drove sixteen hours to Casper, Wyoming to pick up another little puppy. She was yellow collar female. And when I got to the breeder's house, we spent some time with Lisa. We spent about two days there, and I don't know.
• 37:11
  Like, there was just something about the way Mia, the the yellow collar female's now named Mia. So I keep, like, referring to her as her name because
• 37:21
  Bethany Bethard: I know her dog still in person. People aren't gonna know. Like, we're just saying their names.
• 37:25
  Destiny Thomasson: The wire hares. German wire haired pointers. So I bought both of my dogs from a breeder out of Wyoming. It's wire wires. And the first trip that we made out to Lisa and Terry's house, I always said, like, from pictures, I was like, oh my gosh.
• 37:39
  This is my puppy. I can't wait to get my hands on her. But then as soon as we got to Lisa's house, she messed up. She let all the puppies out. And Moxie came straight to me, and she was just all about me.
• 37:51
  She was all over me. Like, she followed me everywhere I went, and I was just like, oh, man. This puppy's gotta go away. So I told her, like, I would think on it. We were staying for the weekend anyways.
• 38:04
  Well, the next day I had asked, I was like, is this puppy spoken for? Which was Moxie. And she was like, no. She's kind of in lingo. Like, we were kinda thinking about maybe keeping her.
• 38:14
  We haven't found a good placement for her. And I was like, well, like, what are the possibilities of, like, me picking her instead of Mia? And she was like, if that's what she wanna do, that's totally fine. And so then I was super overwhelmed because then I was like, oh, man. Like, I really trusted Lisa's input input.
• 38:31
  She's raised these puppies since puppyhood, and she felt like Mia was, like, the pick puppy for me. But it's just something in the way me and Moxie bonded that day at pickup. They had a lot of very similar personality traits, but I think, like, the overall final kicker for me was when the living room was distracting, Moxie chose me over and over again, and Mia had chose the environment. So even as a breeder, I do typically place my puppies with their owners, and I do usually give them, like, two puppies to pick from because, you know, I have the best idea of which puppy is gonna meet your needs because I've been raising them. Right?
• 39:12
  But there's always one, like, that could be on the fence. Like, say, I think this puppy meets your needs, but this puppy also could. You're might not gonna have the hunt drive you're looking for, though, from this one. You know? And I think having the opportunity to pick is great, but I also get why some breeders just send a puppy without giving a person the option because it can be overwhelming.
• 39:35
  Bethany Bethard: For sure. We were I was thinking about a hunt we did one time, and we were actually trying to find wild quail, and we ended up getting rabbits that day. They're so versatile. What is your, like and you were like, oh, save the hair. I'm gonna freeze it.
• 39:53
  I'm gonna use it for, you know, bumpers and stuff. There's so much, like, stuff that you can, like, you know, reuse. You're like, I think I've frozen so many birds from our honey hole trips that I'm using with Nikita now. Yeah. What is your, like you know, we're always from, like, budget friendly.
• 40:08
  The economy is crazy right now. You know? Yeah. What are some of those, like, easy tips, tricks that you do to kinda, you know, save money and make the most out of something? I could also talk about this in-depth for quite
• 40:19
  Destiny Thomasson: a while. So, you know, we've got all the fancy training stuff. We've got the launchers. We've got the Keto boards, and I could go on and on. Really, all you need is a cheap bag of bumpers.
• 40:32
  Some people will go, oh, well, puppies need soft bumpers. You don't wanna use too hard a puppy or bumpers for puppies' mouths. And, yeah, I'll agree with that a little bit, but, honestly, any puppy with retrieve drive isn't gonna have any problem picking anything up. For me, ways that I have saved money getting into this is even still to this day, we have never bought launchers. And what I mean by that, it's it's like this type of equipment.
• 40:57
  You can tuck pigeons or quail or chucker in, and then it launches the bird out of it so that your puppy can't catch it. So say your puppy goes on point, you launch the bird so you can work on steadiness. Ways that I've mimicked that in training is just having a bird bag and planting feathers from said bird. So, yes, essentially, my puppy is pointing a feather pile, but then I toss the bird out of my bird bag, and it's the same scenario. My dog's never getting close enough to that feather pile to know that it's a feather pile.
• 41:27
  It's just seeing the end picture of the pigeon fly, and I'm still getting exactly what I was looking for with her being steady. And then another one of my favorites is a lot of people think you've got to have frozen birds to work on retrieve. Bumpers, in my opinion, if your dog you see a lot of dogs that will retrieve dead birds, but they don't want to pick up bumpers anymore. And that's where force fetch can come into play. Totally different conversation.
• 41:53
  But one of my favorite things to do is just play bumper games of putting your dog so you've got a pointer, put her on woah, toss, like, four or five different bumpers, and then send her to fetch each each one. With puppies, you can wrap them with feathers to, like, build that drive for them if they don't really want to, if they're hard. But there's just so many different ways you can do different things. You've probably seen those cute videos of, like, a wing on a string, and the puppies are pointing it. That's another way.
• 42:21
  Like, if you don't have access to a lot of birds, like, sometimes it can be really hard to get your hands on pigeons or pen raised quail even. They're so expensive right now. So just utilizing what you can is important.
• 42:34
  Bethany Bethard: And I think it's, like, something good that women just naturally do. And I think that's another reason things. Yeah. Just just reuse something. And, you know, I think it's also important, like, once you want win the woman over as far as in the hunting world, then we're more accessible to spend money on those things.
• 42:54
  Because it's like, statistically, women carry, like, 80% of the buying power for the household is, like, the statistic. And so I told my husband, like, you know, it's a good thing that I wanna do all this. Know? I probably wanna do more than him sometimes. Okay.
• 43:07
  So we were talking about, you know, saving money and, you know, be it really being resourceful. What resources are out there for that you would recommend for women to, you know, pull into their you know, even books too, like, if you have anything.
• 43:22
  Destiny Thomasson: My best recommendation would definitely be reaching out to those local clubs because those local clubs are usually five zero one c three oriented. So they'll have, like, a whole trailer full of their own equipment. They'll have the launchers. They'll have the docking bumper releasers. The they literally have everything you can think of to run a hunt test, and those are, for my NAB the chapter, for example, we can rent stuff out.
• 43:46
  It's, like, $5. We sign a little sheet. We'll borrow the launchers, and then we can just take it back. So finding a club that you mesh with would be the best resource aside from just trying to come up with new ways to utilize wings and silly things in training.
• 44:02
  Bethany Bethard: That's awesome. I love that. And, really, you came into it, like, from your, like, not like, you didn't have any of that mentored you into it. You just kinda like, this is what I wanna do, and you jumped into doing it.
• 44:13
  Destiny Thomasson: Yes. And I'm kinda glad that you said that too because I wanted to mention, like, coming in, I knew absolutely nothing. I had bought some books on Amazon, and going into my Nav to Chapter, I actually joined it about eight months before I brought my puppy home. So I started kind of seeing different ways people trained, but for me, you know, seeing that for the first time, I just was like, oh, well, that's gotta be the way. Right?
• 44:39
  But there's a 100 different ways to accomplish one single goal. And especially for new women going into things, don't be afraid to question someone's training method. I think that was a big thing for me is because you do you might see things that you're uncomfortable with or that you just don't understand, and don't be embarrassed to say, hey. Like, why exactly are we doing this? Like, what's the purpose of this training method?
• 45:06
  You know? And I've been in positions sometimes where the person doing whatever they were doing couldn't even give me an answer. And for me, that's just like a, alright. Well, I probably won't be utilizing that one with my own dog. But as you go along with it, you get to see so many different training styles, being a part of a club, watching different breeds and the way they're worked and the way people handle them.
• 45:29
  You can kinda come up with what you think works best for you and your dog. And for me, that's definitely just a mixture of a big variety of different training styles. I'm definitely more a purely positive force free style trainer. I'm not anti e collars. I just like to free shape all behaviors and then clean them up later on.
• 45:48
  But with time, it's been really fun for me because I have more people coming to ask me about the way I'm doing something than I was asking them in the beginning. And I love that because I love to see that they aren't stubborn, that they wanna know, like, wanna expand their knowledge too. They want to do better. So just having different resources to learn from can help you make your own decisions going that route.
• 46:13
  Bethany Bethard: Yeah. That's really great. You know, the outdoor community, I think as a whole, you know, you could probably name other, you know, went on this hunt and didn't like this or don't like how they, you know, hunting ethics, how we hold guns, all the things. You know, there's so many different you know, you could hit on so many different topics, but, yeah, I really love that. But it has been such just an amazing time having you here.
• 46:38
  Thank you for sharing your story. Will you please let our listeners know where they can find you, And we'll try to share all your information below as well.
• 46:46
  Destiny Thomasson: Love it. I'm probably the most active on Instagram, social media with a toddler. It's slacking right now, but I promise I'm still active. I would probably say there is probably my most reachable location at this time.
• 47:04
  Bethany Bethard: And what handle is are we finding you at?
• 47:08
  Destiny Thomasson: Let's just do my hunt and soul dog training account. K. I'm not really on my personal very often. It's usually just the pups.
• 47:15
  Bethany Bethard: Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us, and we'll definitely have to rabbit trail some of these other conversations in the future. But I appreciate you you joining us today.
• 47:25
  Destiny Thomasson: Alright. Well, thank you guys for having me.
• 47:30
  VO: Thank you for listening to the ASCEND podcast. New every week, the conservation driven podcast one week and our adventure video series the next. Watch the ASCEND adventure episodes on the Ducks Unlimited YouTube channel, and be sure to like, share, and subscribe. Opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited. Until next time, follow your outdoor story wherever it leads you. ASCEND.
• 48:02
  VO: Thank you for listening to the DU Podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing. Also proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're winding down with your best friend or celebrating with your favorite crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.
• 48:24
  Be sure to rate, review, and subscribe to the show and visit ducks.org/dupodcast. Opinions expressed by guests do not necessarily reflect those of Ducks Unlimited. Until next time, stay tuned to the Ducks.