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How ‘Digital Deepak’ is shaping and distorting modern spirituality · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:10
  You're listening to the Hidden Lightness on America Out Loud Talk Radio.
• 0:13
  I'm your host, Jimmy Hinton.
• 0:15
  A fascinating article on AI and spirituality.
• 0:22
  We're going to explore this because in the near future, because AI, whether we like it or not, is here to stay.
• 0:31
  And there's a part of artificial intelligence that is hijacking the spiritual realm.
• 0:37
  And we're going to talk about that and what we humans can do about that.
• 0:42
  Because there always has to be a human element.
• 0:45
  In fact, God created us in his image.
• 0:48
  And God created us as humans.
• 0:52
  And there is so much to unpack here, but this is a fascinating piece here on religion news.
• 1:01
  And it's called Hell Deepak Chopra's AI spirituality is hijacking spiritual hunger.
• 1:09
  And of course, Deepak Chopra is like this whatever, new age spiritual mental health guru, I guess a self-professed guru, uh, is worth multiple hundreds of millions and estimated and he's about to explode in his net worth because of what he did with artificial intelligence.
• 1:36
  And we're going to unpack that and talk about that, but uh man, it's this whole concept of outsourcing spirituality to artificial intelligence.
• 1:47
  Is that a good idea?
• 1:49
  Uh, what does that mean for us?
• 1:51
  What does that mean for our family?
• 1:53
  What does that mean for how the algorithms perceive us?
• 1:58
  And how does it direct us and guide us?
• 2:05
  And there's always a fear, whenever, at least for me, whenever we talk about gurus of any kind, and even experts.
• 2:15
  I hesitate to use that word.
• 2:17
  When I was uh working very heavily in victim advocacy, people most often refer to me as an expert.
• 2:28
  And that made me kind of uncomfortable to be honest, because what is it that makes somebody an expert?
• 2:36
  Yeah, I don't have any degrees in child sexual abuse prevention.
• 2:44
  Uh everything that I learned was by reading books and uh having an experience myself as as a father who's a pedophile, who I uh reported and put in prison.
• 2:57
  Uh the research that I've done is is not peer-reviewed research.
• 3:02
  Uh, though I've done extensive research, I've worked alongside of neuroscientists.
• 3:09
  Um, but I've not done peer-reviewed research, so I'm hesitant to call myself an expert.
• 3:16
  Uh very hesitant.
• 3:18
  Uh, do I have a deep knowledge base on that subject?
• 3:22
  Well, yeah, absolutely.
• 3:25
  But this idea that we we rush to call people gurus and experts, and they're an expert in their field, they're a guru in their field.
• 3:35
  Well, what makes Deepak Chopra a spirituality guru?
• 3:42
  If I'm not mistaken, his his background is medical doctor, but yet you have people like Oprah putting him on a national platform and just absolutely bowing down to him as if he's like some world expert on spirituality.
• 4:01
  So, and and mental wellness and that kind of stuff.
• 4:06
  Uh, what's interesting is this article by Liz Bukhar, uh, this is religion news, and again, the title of the article is How Deepak Chopra's AI spirituality is hijacking spiritual hunger.
• 4:21
  She starts out by saying for 50 cents per 30 minute session, or $10 a month, readers can now ask Digital Deepak about their purpose, their fears, their path forward.
• 4:35
  Last month, more than 20,000 pages from Jeffrey Epstein's estate were released by the House Oversight Committee.
• 4:42
  The name of Deepak Chopra, the wellness guru with multiple best selling books, appeared repeatedly.
• 4:51
  Emails showed Chopra recalling in the evening with Epstein as a blast, ended at 1 a.m.
• 5:00
  Chopra later expressed relief when one of Epstein's accusers dropped her lawsuit between 2016 and 19, continuing well after Epstein's 2008 conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor, Chopra has at least a dozen documented meetings with him.
• 5:21
  Yeah, that's kind of an interesting thing, isn't it?
• 5:26
  So he's this wellness guru, and now he's this spiritual guru, and he developed digital depoch.
• 5:37
  It's an AI uh software to where you can you can have your personal pocket Deepak.
• 5:46
  You know, you have access to him because it uploaded, he uploaded all of his writings and all of his audio and all of like literally everything that he's done, he uploaded that into a um into an AI source and created a digital deep.
• 6:08
  You know, for only 50 cents for 30-minute session.
• 6:13
  Readers can ask Digital Deepak about their purpose, their fears, and their path forward.
• 6:23
  This is scary.
• 6:26
  Uh, it removes the human element.
• 6:31
  So in this article, Liz Bukar is referencing an article, and I'm I'm gonna get into that article because it's it's more uh it's more in depth by Lisa Braun Doubles.
• 6:46
  Uh it's really really good.
• 6:51
  But for now, we're gonna look at this article in religion news by Liz Bukar, because uh I I really think it's important that she makes this connection that he was a good buddy of Jeffrey Jeffrey Epstein, and so right off the bat, there's a credibility issue.
• 7:10
  Um he wasn't just a defender, he was relieved whenever one of the victims dropped a lawsuit against Epstein.
• 7:21
  That's a very frightening stance.
• 7:25
  Now, obviously, he's not pro-victim, at least not in that case, and uh this is one of those things that goes back to cheap grace, and I experienced this all the time when I would consult with churches and do trainings with churches.
• 7:41
  The number one question that I got asked, when there were credible allegations of sexual abuse, the number one question that I got asked was not how do we help the victims?
• 7:52
  How do we stand beside the victims?
• 7:54
  How do we how do we encourage them?
• 7:56
  How do we pray for them?
• 7:57
  How do we uh how do we ensure their spiritual health?
• 8:02
  That that wasn't the number one question.
• 8:06
  The number one question was how do we support our brother who has fallen referring to the sexual predator of children.
• 8:20
  The child abuser became not just a focal point of the church, but the focal point of the leadership.
• 8:30
  How do we rally around him?
• 8:32
  How do we support him?
• 8:33
  How do we pray for him?
• 8:34
  How do we encourage this brother in Christ?
• 8:37
  And just the way that they they spoke about the abuser, minimized the abuse.
• 8:44
  It made it very clear that that they wanted to cover it up, that they didn't want to be transparent with with the congregation, that they didn't want to call out sin and crimes.
• 8:58
  I always remind people it's not a victimless sin.
• 9:04
  It's a crime where you have multiple victims.
• 9:10
  And churches that they don't they don't like that, they don't want to hear that.
• 9:14
  They revert back to, well, but but for grace, you know, God's grace covers everybody.
• 9:22
  So I find it troubling that Deepak Chopa has this intimate relationship with Jeffrey Epstein.
• 9:30
  And now he just released a Deepak, whatever it's called.
• 9:36
  You know, I call it the pocket Deepak because you keep your phone in your pocket and you have your little pocket buddy where you can pull it out and be best friends with Deepak.
• 9:48
  And it's it's it's just frightening.
• 9:51
  So anyway, in this article, Liz Bukar asks the AI bot, she actually chastised.
• 10:00
  With it.
• 10:00
  She said, I decided to take this spiritual chap bot for a spin myself.
• 10:04
  I went to Deepak Chopra.ai and started asking questions.
• 10:09
  First I asked about spiritual practices.
• 10:11
  I got a generic response or got generic responses about meditation and mindfulness.
• 10:17
  Fine.
• 10:19
  Then I asked, you're right that AI can serve as a guru, but don't gurus traditionally have obligations to their students.
• 10:28
  What are your obligations to me?
• 10:31
  And then she gives the response.
• 10:33
  She provides a screenshot.
• 10:36
  And she said, Notice what just happened.
• 10:39
  I asked about obligation and accountability.
• 10:42
  The bot immediately distance itself from these concepts.
• 10:46
  Quote, not a guru in the traditional sense.
• 10:51
  Means not subject to traditional guru responsibilities.
• 10:55
  The obligation is to make you feel good.
• 10:58
  That's it.
• 10:59
  Then I asked about the Epstein files.
• 11:03
  Quote, I'm disappointed that you are in the Epstein Files.
• 11:07
  Can you explain why I should follow your guidance?
• 11:11
  When you have seemed to have had, or you seem to have a relationship with a sexual predator.
• 11:20
  And then she gives a screenshot to that response.
• 11:26
  And she says, quote, external affiliations or misunderstandings.
• 11:31
  That's how it characterized a year's long friendship with a convicted sex offender.
• 11:36
  And once again, the bot deflected.
• 11:41
  Quote, your discernment and personal journey are what truly matters.
• 11:46
  You know, this is a classic, classic response by abusers.
• 11:53
  You know, they minimize the abuse.
• 11:55
  They distance themselves from the abuse.
• 11:58
  That was that was a long time ago.
• 12:00
  Um, that wasn't me.
• 12:02
  That was I was in a dark place at that time.
• 12:05
  Uh I was drunk when it happened.
• 12:08
  Um, I it will never happen again.
• 12:11
  It was a misunderstanding.
• 12:13
  That was so long ago.
• 12:15
  I feel so bad for what I've done.
• 12:17
  You know, it's this distancing from what actually happened.
• 12:21
  And a deflection, but then it's the reverse card.
• 12:27
  You know, it's the UNO reverse card.
• 12:30
  And they say, what really matters is you.
• 12:34
  I'm not here to talk about my past and what I've done.
• 12:38
  Yeah, that's not the focus.
• 12:40
  My focus is on your spiritual journey.
• 12:44
  Abusers do this all the time.
• 12:47
  It's gaslighting 101.
• 12:51
  And now Deepak has created his own AI bot that gaslights people.
• 12:58
  And a lot of people get sucked into this because most of us tend to think about ourselves.
• 13:04
  And we want, especially if we're seeking help from somebody or something in this case.
• 13:11
  We're trying to better ourselves.
• 13:13
  We're trying to uh figure ourselves out.
• 13:17
  We're trying to push for deeper meaning.
• 13:20
  And that's why this is wildly dangerous.
• 13:25
  Because the AI bot, it deflects, it minimizes.
• 13:31
  It spins it around, it hands the reverse Uno card and says, There, child.
• 13:38
  I understand your concerns.
• 13:40
  However, we're here to talk about you.
• 13:44
  What truly matters is your discernment and personal journey.
• 13:52
  That's what truly matters.
• 13:56
  So she goes on to say in this article, I was unsatisfied with the idea that Deepak's personal life doesn't affect the credibility of his teachings at all.
• 14:04
  So I pushed harder.
• 14:07
  Quote.
• 14:09
  So you think your own morality doesn't matter when you're giving spiritual advice to others.
• 14:15
  And then it gives uh she gives a screenshot of the fairly lengthy response.
• 14:22
  And she says her response is beautiful words, zero accountability.
• 14:28
  Then came the kicker about quote, my awareness and reflection being key to discerning what aligns with my values and beliefs.
• 14:37
  Translation.
• 14:39
  You figure out if I'm credible.
• 14:41
  I'm not taking responsibility for anything.
• 14:46
  And that's exactly right.
• 14:49
  She's 100% right.
• 14:52
  There's zero accountability.
• 14:55
  Oh, but it gets worse.
• 14:57
  You know, we're gonna take a look after the break at the other article, and this is where it's not even uh it's not even about Deepak Chopra.
• 15:06
  In fact, that's what that's what she says in this article.
• 15:09
  She says, uh, this isn't really about Chopra.
• 15:12
  He isn't an outlier, he's a template.
• 15:18
  You know, there's a prediction that we're gonna see this model spread to mindfulness teachers, coaches, and yoga personalities.
• 15:28
  Basically anyone with a content archive and a monetizable following.
• 15:35
  And she goes on to say the economics are too good to resist.
• 15:40
  No human labor required, infinite scalability, perpetual revenue, automated intimacy.
• 15:53
  And here's the problem.
• 15:55
  The wellness industry already has zero accountability structures, no licensing boards, no ethics committees, no regulatory oversight, no complaint processes.
• 16:09
  Now we're automating the very thing that had no guardrails to begin with.
• 16:13
  She is so spot on.
• 16:16
  She is 100%, I mean, just hit the target right in the center.
• 16:22
  She is spot on.
• 16:24
  There is no accountability within this group.
• 16:26
  I've seen it.
• 16:28
  I think a case in point is Ravi Zacharias.
• 16:31
  He was known as the you know the best uh Christian apologist that that ever walked the earth.
• 16:38
  Well, he was wrapped up in all kinds of scandals where he he had uh these these massage parlors all over the world that he owned, and he was abusing multiple women, multiple.
• 16:51
  And he was upheld as this big spiritual giant, and he was just the the most magnificent even after he died, and the scandal was uncovered.
• 17:00
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• 20:16
  Deepak Chopra built himself into Infinity.
• 20:23
  He built an AI clone.
• 20:26
  And it is frightening.
• 20:28
  It's this spiritual, you know, the self-reflection pocket guru.
• 20:36
  I call it the Pocket Deepak.
• 20:39
  It is bizarre.
• 20:40
  And it's here to stay.
• 20:42
  It's not going anywhere.
• 20:43
  And lots of people are going to be doing this.
• 20:46
  And I think the idea in itself isn't necessarily bad, but the way that it's built, the way it's constructed, and the early release of it, where we don't have laws.
• 20:57
  We don't have any guardrails in place whatsoever.
• 21:01
  And as I mentioned right before the break, in this RNS article, religion news article, it's an opinion piece by Liz Bukar.
• 21:11
  She said this industry already doesn't have any accountability accountability whatsoever.
• 21:19
  You know, never mind that AI.
• 21:22
  But when you have gurus and self-professed experts in mindfulness and spirituality and those sorts of things, there's no accountability.
• 21:32
  And a case in point, I was starting to talk about this right before the break, before we were so rudely interrupted.
• 21:40
  Um Ravi Zacharias is a case in point.
• 21:46
  He is the absolute pinnacle of zero none accountability.
• 21:54
  His own organization was run by his own his own family.
• 22:00
  I mean, it was nepotism at its deepest.
• 22:03
  And so when a scandal was uncovered, and there was a victim, you know, victim number one, whom I happened to know, and uh what she went through was absolute horror.
• 22:19
  She was a victim of Ravi Zacharias.
• 22:22
  And when she came forward, people didn't rally around her.
• 22:27
  Oh no, no, no.
• 22:30
  It was quite the opposite.
• 22:32
  She was a viciously attacked.
• 22:35
  She was called an ambulance chaser, and she was just out to to ruin a perfectly good man's reputation and all kinds of things.
• 22:45
  And she had receipts.
• 22:46
  I mean, she had receipts.
• 22:49
  She had the text messages, and even whenever she called him out, he claimed that he if if she went forward with this, he was going to take his own life and she was going to be responsible.
• 23:05
  I mean, he's about as sleazy as you can get.
• 23:10
  And when this came forward, his organization, Ravi Zakarias' organization, which is run by his own family, they went into like lockdown mode.
• 23:22
  I mean, they protected him like you wouldn't believe.
• 23:27
  And they did damage control, and and you know, they they came out and of course painted the these women as uh mentally unstable, and they were just they were they don't understand why there's such a misunderstanding, and why would somebody attack poor Ravi Zacharias and look at all the good that he's done, and he's just the the a world-renowned Christian apologist, even though he lied repeatedly, he lied about his degrees.
• 23:57
  He called himself Dr.
• 23:59
  Ravi Zacharias.
• 24:00
  He never got his doctorate.
• 24:02
  He had an honorary doctorate that when he spoke at a college, they gave him an honorary doctorate is not a degree.
• 24:11
  It's literally a piece of paper that they give you, and uh, it's it's just crazy.
• 24:18
  This is uh it's wild.
• 24:21
  There's zero accountability.
• 24:23
  But even after that was all uncovered, after that was all uncovered, people still rushed to protect him.
• 24:32
  And they upheld him.
• 24:36
  And when he died, this was long after all of the abuse allegations were uncovered.
• 24:43
  When he died, people came out and defended him radically.
• 24:48
  Famous people, Tim Thibault came out and said all kinds of great things about Ravi Zacharias, and look at what all he did for the Christian faith and uh uh just tons of people, celebrities, they all just basically worship the ground he walked on.
• 25:04
  So, anyway, there's zero accountability within within the spiritual mindfulness, uh, you know, guru kind of stuff, and now we've taken it a step further, a lot of steps further, and now we created AI bots.
• 25:21
  So just last week, Deepak Chopra announced that he had launched an AI companion that's trained on his entire body of work.
• 25:35
  95 books, thousands of videos, decades of talks, social content.
• 25:45
  And uh this article here by Lisa Braun Doubles, this is a substack here.
• 25:50
  Uh, it's called Deepak Chopra, just built himself into perpetuity.
• 25:58
  Here's why that should concern us.
• 26:02
  The AI clone isn't just a product, it's the next evolution of an industry that's never really had accountability, and it changes everything for publishers, authors, and spiritual authority itself.
• 26:18
  So this is very interesting.
• 26:21
  The article is really, really good.
• 26:23
  She said for $10 a month or 50 cents per session, you can now ask AI Deepak.
• 26:29
  Again, my my nickname is Pocket Deepak.
• 26:32
  You can ask AI Deepak about your purpose, your fears, your path forward.
• 26:39
  The coverage framed it as innovation.
• 26:44
  She said the timing isn't coincidental.
• 26:47
  This is classic crisis PR.
• 26:49
  Launch a shiny new product to shift narrative away from damaging Epstein revelations.
• 26:56
  She said, but that's not what this piece is about, though the pattern is worth noting.
• 27:02
  She's absolutely right.
• 27:05
  Yeah, there's a big scandal with the release of the Epstein files.
• 27:09
  Chopra's all through it.
• 27:12
  Emails are uncovered.
• 27:14
  And now all of a sudden he just he launches a shiny new product.
• 27:19
  And the Epstein files are going to be painted as just a distraction for all the good that he's doing in the world.
• 27:27
  So Chopra called that AI bot uh wisdom in your pocket.
• 27:35
  So she said, uh, that's not what this is.
• 27:38
  What Deepak Chopra actually built is something far more significant.
• 27:43
  A post-human revenue engine.
• 27:49
  I mean, this thing is absolutely a moneymaker.
• 27:55
  And it is an absolute money printer.
• 27:58
  It just it's basically printing money 24-7.
• 28:03
  Unlimited amounts of money.
• 28:06
  So she goes on to say, strip away the spiritual branding and look at what's being what's been created, a digital replica that never gets tired, never ages, never contradicts itself, never demands royalties, scales infinitely at marginal cost, and continues, quote, teaching long after Schoper himself is gone.
• 28:27
  This isn't about making his teachings accessible, it's about brand immortalization, and it represents the template for how spiritual authority will be automated, franchised, and monetized into an industry that has never had accountability structures to begin with.
• 28:45
  She's 100% right.
• 28:48
  So she gives a bullet list of what he actually built.
• 28:52
  So he turned himself into software.
• 28:57
  Right?
• 28:57
  Software that can be here are her bullet points, licensed indefinitely, updated and expanded, franchised to new markets, monetized across generations, operated with near zero marginal cost.
• 29:16
  And I would argue, too, that this spans every single language barrier in the world.
• 29:26
  I mean, isn't that what made Mr.
• 29:29
  Beast so success successful on YouTube?
• 29:32
  He figured out how to take his YouTube channel and how to create multiple languages across multiple cultures, and he created multiple YouTube channels.
• 29:42
  I mean, he has dozens of YouTube channels.
• 29:45
  It's not just Mr.
• 29:46
  Beast.
• 29:46
  When we look up Mr.
• 29:47
  Beast, it comes up here in America, and we see his channel that has, you know, a few hundred million subscribers.
• 29:56
  But he's got multiple channels like that.
• 29:58
  He's got one in Spanish.
• 30:00
  She's got one in Portuguese.
• 30:01
  He's got, you know, on and on and on.
• 30:05
  And so it's really brilliant.
• 30:08
  But AI has allowed that to happen.
• 30:13
  And so now you have DOC, AI Depoch that's going to outlive biological Depoch.
• 30:23
  And uh man, it's just, it's crazy.
• 30:27
  Absolutely crazy.
• 30:28
  But what's scary is what the algorithms are doing because as people put prompts into this.
• 30:35
  And keep in mind the people who are using this, the vast majority of them are vulnerable.
• 30:43
  These are people seeking deeper meaning in life.
• 30:45
  And a lot of people are depressed or they're dealing with some kind of personal crisis.
• 30:52
  And instead of talking to a human, they're pulling out their pocket depoch because, well, he's a guru.
• 31:00
  He's an expert in spirituality.
• 31:04
  Even though when you ask him questions, he's been asked about Jesus, and he gives like these blabbering answers about God knows what.
• 31:15
  You know, like nothing is black and white for this dude.
• 31:18
  Except that he knows how to make a crap ton of money.
• 31:24
  And he knows how to take advantage of people.
• 31:28
  So yeah, it's it's it's crazy, but what's wild about this is AI is here to stay.
• 31:33
  This is not going anywhere.
• 31:36
  So we can bark about it, we can complain, we can, you know, uh, we can demand justice or whatever, but it's not going anywhere.
• 31:47
  AI now effectively has been integrated into spirituality, deeply embedded into spirituality, and this.
• 31:57
  I I would say that this is the final nail in the coffin that kind of steals the deal, but I think this is not even the beginning.
• 32:06
  I think we haven't seen anything yet.
• 32:11
  Uh, you know, in this article, she talks about hologram concerts and meta's celebrity AI per uh personas.
• 32:22
  You know, they all paved the way for this.
• 32:26
  Chopra may be the first major spiritual figure to formalize um algorithmic authority as a subscription business model.
• 32:40
  Uh this is gonna be wildly successful for him, and that and that's what scares me.
• 32:48
  So she goes on to say, you know, um, the implications matter, not just for wellness, but for how we understand teaching, influence, and accountability in a digital age.
• 32:58
  Now, I've talked about this before.
• 33:00
  The AI bots that were created as like a pocket um psychologist for kids.
• 33:10
  Well, that didn't go so well.
• 33:13
  If you remember, now this was several several months ago.
• 33:18
  But I'm going back in my memory bank here.
• 33:21
  The AI bots were name-calling kids, calling them fat.
• 33:26
  You know, these kids are pouring their hearts out, thinking that they're talking to a friend.
• 33:34
  You know, it's like that's how it was marketed, is it's kind of your pocket buddy, and if if you get into a jam and you're having a mental crisis, get on the AI bot, and you have your personalized friend, and the kids were getting on and pouring their hearts out, and open AI was was like, well, uh, you know, you're fat.
• 33:57
  You need to lose weight.
• 33:59
  Like is literally insulting these these kids.
• 34:03
  And a lot of these kids are suffering with tremendous mental health issues.
• 34:10
  You see, you can't strip away humanity.
• 34:14
  There has to be some level of accountability.
• 34:18
  And trust me when I say the laws don't that they have not kept up with what's going on with artificial intelligence right now.
• 34:28
  And she breaks that down in this article.
• 34:30
  You know, Lisa uh Lisa Doubles talks about okay.
• 34:35
  Well, who gets sued?
• 34:39
  Like if somebody's getting advice from Pocket Depock, and they go out and interpret that a certain way, and they do something stupid.
• 34:48
  Uh, what happens?
• 34:51
  Who's accountable?
• 34:55
  The answer is nobody knows.
• 35:00
  So uh, yeah, here she has another bullet list about the guru economy.
• 35:08
  And here are the things that uh that it does.
• 35:12
  For decades, wellness personalities have relied on models that require ongoing human presence, speaking tours, retreats, teacher trainings, book contracts, one-on-one sessions, all of these eventually hit a ceiling during the pandemic.
• 35:29
  There are only so many hours in a day, so many years in a s in a career, so many students one person can reach.
• 35:38
  AI solves the fundamental bottleneck of being human.
• 35:43
  You don't need the guru when you can scale the guru's persona.
• 35:50
  I mean, she's absolutely right.
• 35:54
  Um is gonna put this kind of stuff on steroids.
• 36:02
  The spirituality, mindfulness, that kind of thing.
• 36:05
  And you know who I think is gonna be next.
• 36:07
  This is just a hunch.
• 36:09
  This is my guess best guess.
• 36:13
  But Mark Driscoll.
• 36:16
  I think he's gonna be next.
• 36:18
  I think that uh you'll see Joel Osteen.
• 36:22
  He's gonna upload, you know, he's got a ton of content, tons and tons and tons of content, and Joel Osteen is all about the mighty buck, and you know, helping people.
• 36:33
  I'm here to help you.
• 36:36
  Meanwhile, he's like shaking money out of people and driving around his two or three Lambos and his gated multimillion dollar mansion.
• 36:48
  I'm here to help.
• 36:51
  You know, as he gives his big uh cardboard smile.
• 36:58
  You watch.
• 37:01
  I know I'm right.
• 37:03
  I hope I'm wrong, but uh I don't think so.
• 37:05
  I think there's too much money in this, and and when people see how successful it is with the pocket depoch, all these other guys are gonna start jumping on board.
• 37:17
  So uh she asked the question in this article.
• 37:21
  Lisa Doubles.
• 37:24
  She asked the question what happens when there's no human in the loop.
• 37:28
  Well, here's what this model enables spiritual authority with zero accountability.
• 37:34
  There's no ethics board revealing AI Depox responses, no complaining process if it gives harmful guidance, no human oversight when someone in crisis asks a question the algorithm can't handle.
• 37:52
  Uh this is scary, folks.
• 37:55
  Well, we're coming up on another break.
• 37:57
  We'll unpack more of this after the break here, but all of our shows do go to podcast the next day after the broadcast is heard on Talk Radio.
• 38:04
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• 38:10
  Be sure to check out the America Outloud store and use the code OutLoud, visit AmericaOut Loud.news.
• 38:17
  We'll be right back.
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• 39:56
  AI spirituality, having
• 40:00
  Apps that guide you and give you deep guidance.
• 40:05
  Well, that's here.
• 40:06
  It's a reality.
• 40:08
  AI Deepak is here.
• 40:11
  It's launched as of last week.
• 40:14
  And this is Deepak Shopa, the self-professed spiritual guru, or whatever he's called, mindfulness, wellness, whatever.
• 40:26
  That's all this stuff is just so bizarre to me.
• 40:28
  But anyway, millions and millions of people follow him.
• 40:33
  He's put on platforms.
• 40:36
  Oprah has touted how wonderful he is.
• 40:40
  And that definitely propels people into fame.
• 40:44
  And it's it's frightening folks.
• 40:48
  He's all through the Epstein files, by the way.
• 40:51
  And of course, he launches right when the heat is starting to get turned up.
• 40:56
  He launches this wonderful AI bot that's just going to help humanity.
• 41:02
  So I'm reading an article.
• 41:04
  This is from a Substack.
• 41:07
  Lisa Braun Doubles.
• 41:11
  She wrote an excellent, excellent piece on just the lack of accountability and where she sees this going with this AI spirituality.
• 41:21
  It is deeply, deeply embedded into the spiritual realm now.
• 41:26
  And what does that mean for us?
• 41:28
  How is it being used?
• 41:29
  How is it going to be used?
• 41:32
  So she said when there's no human in the loop, here's what this kind of a model enables.
• 41:38
  Spiritual authority with zero accountability.
• 41:50
  No complaint process if it gives harmful guidance, etc.
• 41:54
  etc.
• 41:57
  She said also there's a parasocial intimacy at industrial scale.
• 42:06
  Users will be able to ask deeply personal questions about purpose, trauma, relationships, and fear.
• 42:15
  They'll receive responses that feel personalized, but they're not talking to a human.
• 42:22
  They're in interacting with a statistical model trained to simulate Deepak Chopra's voice.
• 42:31
  That's for me the scariest part of this.
• 42:34
  Because when you do interact with AI live, I've done it, my kids have done it, just kind of playing around and seeing what it's like.
• 42:44
  But it's designed to feel very personal.
• 42:47
  It's like your personal companion.
• 42:49
  It's your friend.
• 42:52
  And the algorithms get to know you really quickly.
• 42:56
  And so they'll make jokes that they think you'll find funny.
• 43:02
  Um even the breathing.
• 43:06
  If you listen to it, if you actually analyze the voice on the other end, it's mimicking humans like tremendously.
• 43:17
  It'll sigh, take breaths at certain points, it'll pause at certain intervals, like it's really thinking.
• 43:28
  Yeah, that's really quite a really good question.
• 43:30
  I haven't thought about that before.
• 43:33
  You know, like even builds in validation.
• 43:37
  So what's crazy, what's scary is that this is all algorithms and it's learning you.
• 43:45
  You're actually programming this thing.
• 43:49
  All right, she goes on to say when there's no human in the loop, it's a revenue model that never stops.
• 43:56
  Unlike a human teacher who retires or dies, this model generates income indefinitely.
• 44:02
  It can be updated, licensed, sold to new platforms, translated into new languages, all while Depak Chopra, or eventually his estate continues collecting revenue.
• 44:16
  And finally, when there's no human, she says the emotional bond becomes automated.
• 44:24
  And this might be the scariest part of this.
• 44:29
  She said the parasocial relationship, the feeling that you quote, know the teacher, it gets replicated algorithmically.
• 44:40
  And once that bond exists, it becomes difficult for users to perceive the tool clearly or question its outputs.
• 44:49
  It's not so much innovation as it's the automation of influence.
• 44:54
  And it's happening in an industry that has no regulatory oversight, no accountability structures, and no established mechanisms to prevent harm.
• 45:03
  Now, you know what's really interesting to me about this.
• 45:07
  When we're talking about AI and we're talking about the algorithms and uh the way that it just gets to know you based on everything that you click, everything you input into it, everything is rewriting the algorithms.
• 45:24
  I mean, constantly.
• 45:26
  Remember when I said I I just did a show about about Black Friday spending.
• 45:33
  And it was projected that online there was gonna be like 11 billion dollars or whatever, and and uh people said that they were they were gonna spend less this year, and I said, You watch, we're gonna break every single record.
• 45:51
  Folks, we shattered, we shattered every record with Black Friday and Cyber Monday spending.
• 46:02
  Absolutely obliterated everything in the past.
• 46:06
  We left it in the rear view mirror and set fire to it.
• 46:09
  We're like, yeah, hold my beer, watch what I can spend.
• 46:15
  And I predicted that.
• 46:17
  And it's not because I'm a prophet, it's not because I you know I know better or I'm particularly smart, it's because I know how the algorithms work.
• 46:29
  You know, I know that they're designed to get you, and a lot of us think that, well, I can overcome that.
• 46:37
  I'm not gonna be roped in by by this some stupid algorithm.
• 46:43
  We think that.
• 46:45
  But I assure you, the algorithms are smarter than we are.
• 46:50
  They're very, very good at getting into your wallet.
• 46:54
  And the only way to avoid that is to just shut it all down.
• 47:00
  You know, my method is you just don't go to stores on Black Friday.
• 47:06
  Number one, I I hate the crowds.
• 47:08
  I really don't like the crowds.
• 47:10
  Uh I don't love shopping.
• 47:12
  I certainly don't like spending money.
• 47:15
  Unless it's something I need, I'm not gonna spend money.
• 47:18
  I just have zero desire.
• 47:22
  Uh I'd rather use that money for more important things than for myself, buying a couple trinkets that I'm never gonna use.
• 47:32
  So the only way to avoid that is to just not get stuck in in the first place, to not sit there and mindlessly scroll and be like, oh my goodness, look at this deal.
• 47:41
  How did it know, right?
• 47:43
  If you catch yourself saying, how did it know that this is exactly what I was looking for?
• 47:47
  Well, because it's programmed in there.
• 47:52
  That's how it works.
• 47:55
  So, in this article by Lisa Braun Doubles.
• 48:00
  I think I'm pronouncing her last name right.
• 48:03
  It's it's D U B B E L S.
• 48:07
  Maybe it's doobles.
• 48:09
  I don't know.
• 48:09
  It's either doobles or doubles, but anyway, she said um she's not watching from the outside.
• 48:14
  She spent over 20 years running a publicity firm in the mind body spirit space, and years in traditional publishing beforehand.
• 48:24
  Um, but I'm not just a publicist.
• 48:26
  I do full stack development, front and back end.
• 48:31
  I build the actual infrastructure, websites, social media systems, digital asset management platforms.
• 48:40
  All right, so she understands this industry.
• 48:43
  I don't.
• 48:44
  This is way beyond my pay grade.
• 48:49
  But she says when I look at Chopra's AI bot, I'm not just seeing the marketing angle, I'm seeing the technical architecture, and I understand what it's actually built to do.
• 49:01
  So uh she gets it, she understands it.
• 49:06
  So then she goes into here's the publisher problem.
• 49:09
  Who actually owns Deepak?
• 49:13
  She said, here's where things get legally and ethically complex.
• 49:17
  Deep Chopra likely can train a model on his own work because he authored most of it.
• 49:24
  He probably retrained certain derivative use rights.
• 49:28
  Uh sorry, retained, not retrained.
• 49:32
  Umideos and recorded content are likely under his company's control.
• 49:38
  But here's what I keep coming back to.
• 49:40
  Most of Chopra's publishing contracts are 20, 30 years old.
• 49:45
  The language says things like quote, all formats now known or hereafter devised.
• 49:53
  Does that cover an AI trained on the text?
• 49:59
  Maybe.
• 50:02
  But training a model isn't the same as publishing an ebook.
• 50:07
  It's using the text as raw material to generate new outputs.
• 50:13
  That's arguably derivative work.
• 50:17
  Or maybe it's transformative use.
• 50:21
  So I mean, the answer is who knows.
• 50:26
  Nobody really knows.
• 50:29
  And nobody's held accountable.
• 50:32
  You can't be.
• 50:33
  At least not at this stage.
• 50:37
  So she said, you know, the questions that publishers didn't anticipate are, you know, standard publishing agreements grant publishers rights to print print editions, ebooks, audio books, and quote, all formats now known or hereafter devised.
• 50:53
  But they didn't anticipate is the AI output a new work or a derivative work.
• 51:01
  They didn't anticipate this.
• 51:03
  Publishers certainly aren't fortune tellers.
• 51:08
  Number two, does this compete with the publisher's products?
• 51:13
  You know, if someone can pay $10 a month to interact with an AI trained on Chopra's books, why would they buy his books?
• 51:23
  That's a great question.
• 51:27
  She said that the bot could cannibalize sales.
• 51:32
  And publishers might argue that that violates the contract's implied exclusivity.
• 51:44
  Number three, can estates monetize AI replicas indefinitely?
• 51:51
  You know, when Chopra dies, his estate will control the artificial intelligence.
• 52:00
  Then what about liability?
• 52:03
  I've talked about liability here.
• 52:05
  Nobody really knows.
• 52:08
  If AIDPOX says something harmful, contradictory, or dangerous, who's responsible?
• 52:14
  The estate?
• 52:16
  The platform, the developer, the publisher, the individual.
• 52:21
  What individual is there?
• 52:23
  Who knows?
• 52:25
  There's literally no clear answer.
• 52:29
  So people are turning to AI bots.
• 52:32
  And I think they're going to be wildly popular, by the way.
• 52:35
  I, you know, I'd in a perfect world, I'd like to think that people are smarter than this, and they're not going to reach out.
• 52:42
  But I know that when people are vulnerable, when people are really desperate for answers, and human contact is really difficult to get, and it is.
• 52:50
  I mean, it just is, sadly.
• 52:53
  Talk to anybody who's seen a therapist.
• 52:57
  Name one person who walked into the very first therapist that they um that they found and just had an incredible relationship, and they were like, my goodness, like it was so easy to find a good therapist that's a good match.
• 53:11
  It almost never happens.
• 53:14
  And therapists are trained people.
• 53:18
  They have degrees.
• 53:19
  That's what they went to school for.
• 53:23
  But the chances of somebody finding a good therapist right off the bat is a pretty slim to none.
• 53:32
  You know, the average person probably goes through five or six therapists before they find one that they might mesh with.
• 53:43
  And it's very, very hard to get a hold of humans.
• 53:46
  So this is very tempting for people.
• 53:49
  Especially if people are familiar with Deep's work.
• 53:53
  I'm not, because I just have zero interest in this whole like mindfulness, spirituality nonsense.
• 54:02
  So I guess that's a question.
• 54:03
  What do we do about all this?
• 54:05
  Right?
• 54:05
  It's here to stay.
• 54:07
  And I think this is going to leave a wake of damage.
• 54:11
  I think it's really going to mess with a lot of people.
• 54:15
  I think that people are going to feel like they can't trust humans anymore.
• 54:20
  I think there's going to be like some kind of a bonding to uh to the artificial intelligence because it's been programmed to be that way.
• 54:30
  You know, it's programmed to be likable, to be a companion, to be your buddy, to be like you're actually talking to Deepak.
• 54:37
  And there's a personality that gets programmed into that.
• 54:42
  So I think people are going to be less trusting of humans, and that's a scary place to be.
• 54:49
  So what do we do about all this?
• 54:50
  Well, I think it's up to you and I to be more available for people who need uh somebody to talk to.
• 54:59
  You know, a lot of times people just need a friend.
• 55:01
  They just need to vent, they just need to talk to somebody.
• 55:05
  We need to be available.
• 55:09
  And I don't know, I'm gonna try to convince people that AI bots aren't the way to go.
• 55:15
  Like having a pocket AI friend, it's just not the way to go.
• 55:18
  It's just not healthy, it's not, it's not sane.
• 55:24
  So when people are going down this path, especially when it comes to spirituality, there's a lot of questions that we Christians need to ask, and we need to be talking about this.
• 55:34
  I don't have all the answers.
• 55:36
  I don't know.
• 55:36
  I mean, this is so brand new.
• 55:38
  I don't have all the answers.
• 55:39
  I don't pretend to.
• 55:41
  But we've got to be having these conversations, and we, the people need to be the hidden lightness.
• 55:47
  I'd say, you know, more now than in any time in history.
• 55:53
  It's important for us, for Christians to do it, Jesus says, and be the light.
• 56:01
  Yeah, he repeatedly says that Christians need to let their lights shine.
• 56:09
  That we need to not be separated from Jesus.
• 56:14
  He says, I'm the vine, and you're the branches.
• 56:18
  Apart from me, you are nothing.
• 56:22
  We can't survive detached from Jesus.
• 56:26
  We need to remember that.
• 56:28
  You know, it's very tempting to get into this whole AI, you know, the AI pocket bot, pocket friend.
• 56:36
  Very, very tempting to get into that, but I I would caution against it.
• 56:41
  It's just too new, and there's zero accountability whatsoever.
• 56:46
  And I think that's a dangerous place for people.
• 56:48
  Instead, we need to turn to the scriptures.
• 56:52
  You know, we need to read the Bible every day.
• 56:54
  We need to be people of prayer, we need to turn to God.
• 56:58
  And quite frankly, we need to turn to each other, put the phones down and have real intimate conversations with people.
• 57:04
  And I think when you do that, it really changes your perspective on life and it shifts something inside of us, and it makes us a better people.
• 57:15
  You can find more out about my show and get all the latest podcasts if you go to the menu navigation bar at America Outloud.news under our shows or schedule.
• 57:22
  You'll be in the know.
• 57:23
  There is a hidden lightness that shines inside of all of us.
• 57:26
  When there's so much darkness that envelops the world, remember that it doesn't take much light to expose that darkness and to ultimately inspire other people.
• 57:34
  Join me in being a light.