Latest / LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships / #65: Helping Your Adult Child Find Joy

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#65: Helping Your Adult Child Find Joy · LAUNCH: Parenting Tips for Raising Adult Children & Building Better Relationships

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sherry Jonas, and this is Launch.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Today I'm joined by Laura Hope Whitaker, CEO of ESP, which stands for Extra Special People, a successful nonprofit organization dedicated to creating the most enriching, transformative experiences for people with disabilities and their families.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's a speaker, advocate, and the author of her brand new book, The Joy Exchange, which is so beautifully written and honestly a must-read, and not just for you, but for your adult child too.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Laura is known for her joyful approach to leadership and her ability to shift perspectives around inclusion, community, and the power of human connection.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: In the Joy Exchange, Laura shows how the very individuals our culture often overlooks has the most to teach us about love, leadership, and community.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, we talk about the surprising meaning behind joy, how we can all experience it, what parents can do to reconnect with their adult children, and what they can do to feel a sense of belonging and connection again, something these young adults desperately need.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoyed speaking with Laura, and I'm sure this episode will resonate with you.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Remember to hit the subscribe button and please share it with someone who needs to hear it.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Laura.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining me today on launch.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: It is such a joy, really exciting.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well said.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well said.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I've I've interviewed a number of authors um since I've been doing this podcast, and they've all written, you know, excellent books, each one focused on their niche.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I have been reading your book, The Joy Exchange, Finding Life's Greatest Lessons in Those You Least Expect.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: And this is something that everyone should read.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: It is beautiful.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Your stories, your message, and especially your writing style.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely love it.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's the best compliment you can give an author, especially a new author like me who's never written a book before.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: So oftentimes it felt like poetry.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, very poetic.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm a storyteller by nature, but I typically public speak, and so I feed off of the energy of the people in the room.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: So this was very interesting because there was no one to respond to it.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I really kind of had to create my own voice, and much of it came out in a very kind of poetic way.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, there were so many moments where I actually got emotional.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: It it's incredibly poignant.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: It pulls at your heartstrings.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm getting so much out of it.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: So glad.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it is emotional, it'll make you laugh and make you cry because it's human stories, you know, and that's that's what I want people to feel, because that's what I've felt being around people of all abilities for the last 20 years is just those true human feelings.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and so I'm so glad.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I am really looking forward to talking about it, but before we go there, um, you have to share your personal journey, how you came to be the CEO of this incredible nonprofit, and and more importantly, how that experience has changed your life.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I kind of have a unique story.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I um I grew up in Atlanta, in the suburbs of Atlanta.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um my parents, I grew up one of four, four kids and the second girl.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And my parents um really did kind of instill this gift to us, which was um the gift of serving.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so we would serve as a family and oftentimes have people that didn't look like us around our our kitchen table.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we lived in, you know, a wealthy suburb in Atlanta.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of atypical.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so when I went to the University of Georgia as a freshman, I was 18 years old.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I wanted to serve somewhere.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, a friend of mine connected me to ESP.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I walked in as an 18-year-old, just consumed with what every 18-year-old is currently consumed.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not social media, because it wasn't social media really at the time.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was more comparison and the same feelings.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: What am I supposed to be in this world?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do I compare to others?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um walked into this little 1200 square foot building and met some of the most remarkable people.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And they were people with Down syndrome and cerebral palsy and intellectual delays.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: They could care less what I was wearing, what I drove, what my what I was studying in school, you know, and they just saw me and I felt this um unbelievable joy, this like light that kind of penetrated my my skin and my body and left there just joyful and was addicted to it and um started working there, volunteering there.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: And our founder who who founded the organization 40 years ago, we're 40 years um this this year, uh, was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and passed away the summer after our summer camp.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um and there was kind of a couple of us that took the helm and and led for a little while.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then um I took over as the executive director my sophomore year of college.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so began leading when I was 19, became the executive director when I was 20.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that was my entrance into my leadership journey, right?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like as a little sophomore in in college, and I didn't know what I didn't know, which is now the best thing I know, is really um, you don't have to know everything.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to be willing to lean in.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, it's completely changed my life.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've now been married for almost 20 years.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have a 17-year-old, a 13-year-old, and an eight-year-old, um, typically developing individuals, and I'm raising them in this community, and the organization's grown to multiple cities, and we now have over 200 employees, and we're serving 1,400 members.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's just been a life's life's work, life's joy to be a part of this organization.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I write about is kind of the rest of us that don't have disabilities, what we can learn and what I've learned the last 20 years.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is the mission of ESP, which is extra special people?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's what ESP Inc.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, our mission, we exist to create transformative experiences for people with disabilities in their families.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: And we know that changes communities for the better.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we have after-school programming, weekend programming, summer camp, um, family support and programming so that families can live and community with one another, family dinners, sibling support.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then purpose, um, we have job joy, which is our mobile coffee cart that goes into for-profit businesses and organizations and serves coffee, but most importantly, spreads joy.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and that's we employ um now we're at I think 80 joy ristas, barista plus joy equals joy rista.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: So we're at 80 joy ristas that we employ, which is nearly 40% of our workforce has a disability.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um, that's that is everything that encompasses what we do.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: And this book, 100% of the proceeds goes to ESP and helps us fund the work that we're doing uh with our organization.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love that Joy Rista story, like that whole philosophy.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: What's the tagline again?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Coffee, hug, and joy.
• 7:46
  unknown: Oh, God.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so what did they do?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: If I would, if I would walk by uh, you know, a Java Joy, what would happen?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk, walk me through that experience.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Great question.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we may be at um we may be at a bank, we may be at your local dealership.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have a several local dealerships that book us every week.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so you may go get your oil changed on a Friday morning, and you may walk in, and our kind of magic is interrupting your normal day routine with joy and in something that's unexpected.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so you may walk in to get your oil changed, and you may be solely focused on what you're doing for the day.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then there is um four individuals with disabilities behind a cart, and they may say, Would you like a cup of coffee?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: And that coffee is sponsored by the dealership or by the business that that books us.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's free to you.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you come up.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's normally a question of the day.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it might be like, Um, who's your Galantine?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or what's your favorite Valentine candy?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's this exchange of of commonality and and a sense of um, you know, this is mine, that's yours, learning a little bit about you.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'll get your coffee and you'll be asked, would you like a hug?
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say 98% of people say yes.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if they say no, our joy reasons are trained to say, Can I give you an air hug or can I give you a fist pump?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's this element of human connection where you may never have had a positive interaction with someone with autism or Down syndrome or hugged someone in a wheelchair.
• 9:29
  unknown: Right.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you have this exchange and it's a joyful exchange, and you walk away, and what's happening that you don't realize is what's happening is you're building a positive neural connection with someone who's different from you, someone that might have a disability, which we know research shows that if you can pop build that positive neural connection the next time you may be in a restaurant or bagging groceries or whatever, you're gonna have that positive neural connection built.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you're more likely to lean in in that type of human connection and have another positive interaction with someone with a disability after that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Incredible.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like you think you're getting a cup of coffee and you're getting an experience.
• 10:13
  unknown: Exactly.
• 10:14
  unknown: Exactly.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um this line in your book really stayed with me.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I told you I was gonna do this, pull lines out.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we think we're chasing happiness, but what we're actually starving for is joy.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: There is something so powerful about that distinction.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you asked uh most people, myself included, to define joy, they'd probably compare it to happiness.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: But now that I'm reading your book, it's clear that they're not the same at all.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love for you to define joy for the listener.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I love that.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of my favorite things to talk about because you know, happiness just happens.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's very circumstantial.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: It might be short term, you might be on a vacation, and you know, you somebody asks you, what was the last time you were really happy?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be like I was on vacation or I received a bonus or someone said something very kind to me, or whatever.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very circumstantial.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Joy is very inward and can only happen in relationship to someone else.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: So joy is delighting in the person in front of you.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is this exchange that happens when I walk into the room and someone is happy to see me.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they come over and say hello, and we have have an exchange.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Joy is built in community and it's built in relationship.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and someone like me who who's a believer, you can also receive that same joy from God in relationship.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: But joy is relational, it's not circumstantial, and it is found in delighting in the person in front of you.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're gonna talk more about that because there's so much.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's so much about that.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: But um, when we spoke, you mentioned that uh research shows that we cannot experience joy through technology, which is what you're just touching on.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: But this is so important for our listener with young adults at home, um, that living their life primarily online will not bring them joy.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a um there's there's a researcher, um, Dr.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Alan Shore, that did all of um the neurological research as it relates to joy specifically.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he began studying the brain at infancy because you know, another common misconception of joy is like, well, some people are just more joyful than others, or some people are just happier than others, and I'm just not a happy person.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, everyone is built with the same joy capacity, and joy your joy capacity grows as you exercise it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a muscle.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so what happens when you're an infant and your mom or your dad or your caretaker is holding you, and they are just like, I like to remind moms, you know, sometimes they they would say, you know, I don't know what I did all day.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I just like changed diapers, fed a baby, and stared at my baby.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And what they're actually doing is building the baby's and their own joy capacity, because in that delight of that exchange, what's happening in the brain is the brain is actually building capacity for joy.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And what we now know about the brain is the brain has so much neuroplasticity in it.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like we used to think the brain was fixed after age five, but what we now know is the more you exercise the brain, the more that it rewires itself.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's doing it right now for you and I.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we delight in one another, we're building that capacity for joy.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if we want more joy, we actually have to work at it.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so what happens with technology is that you know, you get this like dopamine hit when you're in relationship with someone.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: But what actually what where joy is actually built is in seeing one another.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so you and I can in this way kind of grow our joy capacity, but really the magic of what happens and how it grows is really in person.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's where it grows.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: So the the chatting back and forth or social media, while it may bring us happiness, it won't bring us joy.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a difference in those two things.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna ask you about the joy capacity and and how we can build or strengthen it.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying that in order to do that, we need more in-person interaction.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: And it might just start, you know, I talk a lot about awkwardness in the book, right?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what's also fascinating about that, the more I got into the research is like a lot of times people say, well, he's just an awkward person or she's just an awkward person.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, the research shows that awkwardness is not a characteristic, it happens in social interaction.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And what I know from my graduate degree with individuals with autism is that we actually have to teach social skills to individuals with autism.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think with awkward, awkward people, quote, awkward people, we have to look at those social scripts and know what to do to become less awkward.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes we sit in this, like, oh, well, I'm just awkward.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I and we kind of shrug our shoulders and say, oh, well, that's I'm just awkward.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, no, you have awkwardness because you haven't practiced those social cues and those social scripts to be less awkward.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: So um, in order to grow our capacity, it is like a muscle.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: You got to go to the gym.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And in order to go to the gym, you have to, it starts with like the people that are right in front of you, the people in our home.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, how are you receiving people on the other side of you?
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like when people walk into a room that you really love, are you do you show that you are happy to be with them, that you that you want to delight in them?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Starts there and then it kind of ripples out.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the more that we can delight in people be present, make good eye contact, smile, and use words of encouragement, that's how you build your joy capacity.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then you turn around a month, a year, five years later, and go, oh my gosh, I'm suddenly a lot less awkward than I was five years ago.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or I'm a lot less antisocial than I was a month ago.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's because you started building that joy capacity and sort of rewiring your brain to ultimately figure out how to delight in the person in front of you.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna come back to connection.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I want our listener to leave every every episode having um strategies and suggestions that they can take back to their young adult who is really deeply disconnected and probably feels very awkward and doesn't know how to get over that.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna come back to it.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: But I do want to touch on the you talked about the neuroplasticity of the brain.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying that the awkwardness is not something that you're inherently born with, and that joy and that increasing your joy capacity is how you work through that.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think some people are bent towards more awkwardness for sure, but it's not actually a characteristic you're born with, similar to joy.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: You aren't born with joy.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Joy is a muscle that you exercise.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, um, we can kind of sit in our personalities a little bit sometimes and give ourselves an excuse.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what we know about the brain is really there's no excuse for awkwardness.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, one of my the things I talk about in the book is um aha is on the other side of awkwardness.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's leaning in, like culture right now says, like, oof, it's uncomfortable.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if it's uncomfortable, pull back, take care of yourself.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's awkward, pull back.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And what what my kind of anthem is and what research shows is it's like, no, that's the moment.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's like your moment to cross the bridge.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: If it's awkward, if someone's different from you, or there's a social situation that's awkward.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: The only way to rewire your brain, the only way to get on the other side and to find that aha connection.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that person, it wasn't so awkward to hug someone in a wheelchair, or that person is a different color skin or different generation or whatever.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, we have this connection.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, we have this thing in common, our favorite Valentine's candy, or whatever it is.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: The aha is on the other side of the awkward, but you actually have to get through that level of uncomfortability in order to get to that aha on the other side.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's leaning into that awkwardness that really is kind of my anthem.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, a lot of my my the people that I'm surrounded with, my friends with dis different abilities, they never really learned to push back.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're still leaning in like they did when they were five, like we did when we were five, when we were curious about differences, when we weren't awkward.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I've learned these lessons along the way from them where they're not afraid to hug me.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're excited to see me every.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one of our joy reasons, Megan, I saw her.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: We went on a business trip.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: I saw her every day.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes we would go rest and come back.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Every time she saw me, she was, she showed that she wanted to, she was delighted to see me.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: And what that did was create this bond between us and grow our joy capacities together.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And in response, I responded to that.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I've just learned so much from them and then paired it with the research to help me realize how do I grow my joy capacity?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: How do I lean into the awkwardness to find aha on the other side?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: You you talk a lot about uh emotional contagion.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: I need you to explain that for me and for the listener.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and there's a lot of really great research and books about that.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the, you know, the the simple premise is this emotions are contagious and joy is contagious.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: In the book, I talk about um us starting our franchise amidst COVID, right?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so we all now have this really beautiful understanding of how things spread.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and there's a negative connotation to that too.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but we're we're all spreading something.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: My anthem is why don't we spread joy?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why don't we spread delight in one another?
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so you know, in an office, if you think about, you know, a time that you've had a boss that affected the rest of the organization, or one bad actor that's a that's in in your place of employment, or one family member at a family reunion or a holiday, those emotions are contagious.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: And joy is just as contagious, maybe more contagious than some of those um negative emotions.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I've I've found that to be true.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've I see people walk away from ESP um with this glow.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we've had business leaders say, you know, my employees leave ESP from volunteering and they come back to the office and they're more joyful, thus, they're more productive.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, and so if we're leaders or if we're moms or dads, our our joy capacity is important because it affects those that that are around us and it's ultimately contagious.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna play devil's advocate for a second, because I know what the listeners I think I know what the listener's thinking.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: If my young adult does not feel joy, does not feel happiness, is suffering from loneliness, depression, um, disconnection, how can they exchange joy?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Where is that gonna come from for them?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Unless they receive it, but how can they even begin?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, we have a lot of individuals on the autism spectrum, and it comes out in in different ways for them as well.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um so, you know, one of the one of the parallels that I have throughout the book is I talk a lot about seeds.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um, you know, it's not this magical, like, oh, I was delighted to see my you know, adult son who's been in his room all day playing video games, and all of a sudden he was joyful.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't work that way.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's these seeds that you slowly plant.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes um we don't realize, and this is like a hold up the mirror moment because I'm a mom as well, we don't realize um that we maybe have lost hope with the people that are around us that don't have joy.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so because we've lost hope, um we we act that way.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and we don't expect that they can have joy.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I would say maybe to that parent, and I've had similar situations with some of my extended family members, to start planting small seeds of delight.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you when your son or daughter walks in the room, you know, the power of human touch is it's it's incredibly powerful.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you can't, if you can't touch them on the shoulder or touch their hand or or touch their face, at least looking at them in the eyes and say, I'm so happy to see you.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it's those small little things, the power of being wanted in a space, even just a separate room, I'm telling you, it can completely change a person's disposition.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it might be slowly.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: But if someone is needed, I mean, that's the at our core, we all want to be needed and wanted.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that feeling of being wanted in a space or a room is really, really important.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you can pair that with a little bit of touch, um, most of us are touch deprived, and I'm around humans all the time.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: But we we are the only creature, the only species that doesn't touch one another in the way that other species, species do.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And we need the human touch.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yet we've we've kind of put that to the side and said, Oh, that's awkward.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Again, we've got to lean into the uncomfortability and human touch matched with good eye contact and a warm smile that is genuine enough times over time can continue to build joy capacity that eventually that human will begin to respond.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna talk about that or ask you about the that uh that um the idea that we are the least touched species.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I find that so sad.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you also write about that touch is the primary language of connection, which I think what you're saying now is that that's how it starts, even if it's just a squeeze of the shoulder.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if just imagine that if every time we're we're conditioning here, but every time uh your your adult steps out of their room, you look at them, you give them a hug, you you rub their back, or you do something, you make that eye contact, it's almost conditioning them that if I come out of my room, I'm going to feel a connection to my parent.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: So that's so you start with the eye contact and a little joke to get them to look back at you and connect their eye, that eye contact.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then it might warm up to a um, I'm just so happy you're here.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I know yesterday was hard, but I'm so glad there's a new day.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just so I'm just so happy you're here.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then it might turn into a pat on the back or a quick hand on hand over hand, or like this morning, my son wasn't feeling well.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I could tell he was, this is my 17-year-old.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: I could tell he was struggling and he was sitting, reading, and studying before school.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I could tell he just like didn't really want a whole lot to do with me this morning.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: He hadn't fully woken up, you know.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I knew like a hug, which you need eight hugs a day, by the way.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I could tell the hug in that moment wasn't right.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just went up to him and I put my hand over his hand and I looked at him and I said, buddy, I hope you feel better today.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love you so much.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked him in the eyes and then I walked away.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: But that, like, I can't even describe to you what happened in his brain.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: When I did that, it was the human touch.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was the I see you and I love you, and I see you're not feeling well, and and I'm wishing for you, and I love you, and I'm cared and concerned, and I want to be with you in this moment, and I'm here for you.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so I think even in those like uncomfortable moments, it's just choosing for us as parents to lean in and help our kids build that joy capacity.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, this is so powerful.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: It really is because it's the it's the little things that parents forget to do, especially as your kids get older.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: We hug and kiss them all the time when they're younger.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: But as they get older, we, you know, there's walls that go up.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: When I look at my children, they don't, I don't live with them.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I hold on to the goodbyes and the hellos a lot or in the conversations that we have, and I stare at them.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I could tell sometimes they're like, Mom, you're staring at me.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: But it's the I'm loving them even when my eye contact.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I could tell that they just know it.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: They just know she's staring at me because she loves me.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's like perfection in in those little faces for me because they're my children and I miss them and love them so much.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I can I can feel it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm reading the room.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, I know I'm staring at you, but they I think it's so powerful.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I I want parents, this is the moment.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is like, hold on to this piece of advice because that's all you need to do.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Open that bedroom door, walk in there, give them a hug, you know, touch them, look at them, and and because they're we've lost that.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: We really do.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's such a wonderful reminder.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a gift that you can give your children and your and your, you know, and yourself because you're getting something out of it too.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you you also you touched on that hug thing.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's talk about that for a second.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Eight hugs a day is the minimum.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Who hugs eight times a day?
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Not many people, right?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Which is no wonder we're all messed up.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: We need eight, that's baseline, 12 to psychologically survive, or eight to survive, 12 to thrive, is what research says.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the statistics in the book.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, and once I read that, I mean, so so at our organization, I get a million different hugs.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the reasons I was like, we have to talk about this because there's a reason these humans are so joyful, and they're not afraid to give a hug or touch or be close.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so once I read the research, now my kids are so funny because I'll be like, all right, come on, and I'll just get one, two, three, four, and now it's kind of a game.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but I'm like, I want them to have the baseline walking out of this house.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can't control what happens out there, but I want them to have the baseline of psychological safety and their body and their brain and their souls need it.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: They need that human touch.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, yeah, when I write about it in the book, I tell a story about going to San Francisco and growing our organization.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: And good story.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I talk about um, you know, this idea of what's appropriate.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's fascinating to me because I I've I've with these kind of these eyes, I've I've noticed, you know, we we start deeming what we think is appropriate based on culture standards.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And in many cultures, and like we said, in other species, what is appropriate is human touch.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and with individuals of all abilities, that is what's appropriate for many of them, not all of them, but for many of them.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I, you know, I had this person who was telling me this is not appropriate.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I remembered back to my little five-year-old self.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and listen, I am aware consent is important.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: Abuse statistics are out there.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I am not saying, you know, there's a spectrum, right?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: But what we've done is because of the end of this spectrum of abuse, we've gone to the other side of the spectrum and we've pulled all human touch out.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think proximity and touch is even important in a workplace.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely important in a family.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but the research shows it's important for leaders to be physically present.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: A touch of the shoulder, a high five, a fist pump, a hug if it's appropriate with consent is important.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so I really kind of began to think, okay, like what taught me that something is not appropriate or appropriate?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who taught me that?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Was it culture and culture's language?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is it fear that's talking?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it truly what's appropriate should be what we need.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And what we need is human touch.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: What our bodies, what our brains need is is physical connection where there is consent and appropriateness with it.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I want to just refer back to a little story um where you said that there was a CEO.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna say this wrong, so but you I think you're gonna know where I'm going.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he went for a to have a coffee at what you know, at one of your stands, and he got a hug.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it tells tell that story.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we were in San Francisco, we were at a large corporation, tall, high-rise, and we're serving.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And um, there was this uh gentleman probably in his 60s, and he came to get his cup of coffee.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I watched the same thing happen where you know you get your cup of coffee and um it's good coffee, by the way, like not baked so it's the good stuff.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And he question of the day, everything, and then he gets over and um Arjolista says, Can I give you a hug?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, A hug?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's like, Yeah, and he kind of like awkwardly gives us gives his hug.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then he leaves.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: And a couple minutes later, he circles back around and he said, Can I get another cup of coffee?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was sure.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Oh, and I I want to get another hug.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Go for it.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And he comes over to me and I and I said, How was your experience?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: And he starts asking me all these questions, how does this work?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: How do you book it?
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: All that.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then he looks at me square in the eyes.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a gentleman, um CEO of a large organization, and his tear, his eyes full are of tears, and he looks at me and he says, Um, I haven't had a hug in five years.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, I got divorced.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: My children are out on their own.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you could just see, I mean, he was he was um crumbling in the most beautiful way.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just this like human side of him came out, and um he was captivated by this idea and glowing all at the same time.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: You could tell it just like melted him, and um, and something similar happened in Miami just a couple weeks ago.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: We were serving at a large conference there, and there was a gentleman whose wife passed away six months prior.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_00: This was his first event back to work.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: He gets his hug from a joyrista immediately.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: His his body, like tears came.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: He couldn't help it because he didn't, it was the hug he didn't know he needed.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: It had been six months since he had been touched or delighted in in that kind of way.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: And he and he needed it, and it completely changed the course of his next few days.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's joy.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna come back to that for a second, but I want to talk about how each chapter in your book centers around an exchange.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, why is that concept so central to the message in your book?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've it's that that's what I love about it is that because you know, I'm all over the place.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you mentioned to me chapter 15.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I start, I start, I literally started from the beginning, then I jumped to, and I'm looking at these chapters, I'm like, I can read a chapter whenever I want, whenever I feel I need that.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I wanted to understand why you took why everything is about an exchange.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, um I've I've hinted on this a bit throughout our conversation, but I think um, you know, a parallel at dandelion, and you'll have to read read the book to understand the parallel.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: But the premise of it is that, you know, when we're children, we we see the world through a certain light.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then along the way, culture teaches us.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: And some of that's great.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we learn, we have knowledge, we we we realize things, we become more wise.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: But some of those lessons are we need to unlearn.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we actually have the goodness inside of us, and we we may have learned the wrong lesson.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so, um, you know, this concept, the joy exchange is really the delight between two people, but I wanted to carry that through um in the exchange because I think we really all have a choice.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, one of the chapters is um exchanging disgust for delight.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And disgust is not like a word we love to talk about, right?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, I don't I don't think things are disgusting, you know, it's like, but then you start paying attention to it, and particularly as it relates to people who are different than us, or children who live differently than we thought that they would, or parents who are there's there's these things.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: And um, one of my favorite quotes that's in there is about Seinfeld, and he talks about like a hair and how um, you know, if you someone were to brush by you and their hair would touch you, you wouldn't think that's disgusting.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: But if you take their hair from their head and all of a sudden put it in your food, it's disgusting, right?
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so things out of their container sometimes for us are disgusting.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I think the same can be for people, you know, and people who are different and people who we don't quite understand or we're frustrated by.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've watched like these 18-year-old boys who are consumed with college football or whatever, come to ESP and the first day that they're changing an adult with cerebral palsy on a changing table, having to change a dirty diaper of an adult man.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the visceral response is like, this is disgusting.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then they lean in and they get used to it throughout the week.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then by Friday, they're like sipping a Coke, eating their lunch, changing the human.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they're they have moved from disgust to delight when they've chosen to lean in.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so this concept of really exchanging the thing that we have or that this kind of um permission we give ourselves um for something else that might be better on the other side.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the anthem of the book is lean in, right?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and it's leaning into what might be uncomfortable to find, find the goodness of the exchange on the other side of it.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Got it.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: So the exchange almost is unlearning one thing for another.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that is so powerful because we're always talking about what we can learn.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so many of us are at that point in our lives, regardless of your age, though there it has to be unlearning that you've picked things up, you know, throughout your life that are not healthy for you.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's so important because you know, I think sometimes we're like, oh, another thing I have to learn, right?
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Another study I need to read, or another characteristic that I need, I'm exhausted by learning things.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is you you have it.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, you already have it inside.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: You had it when you were five.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to get back to it and unlearn some things, take some things away, get back to that five-year-old self that you have in there, because it's in there.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to learn anything new, you just need to unlearn what culture taught you along the way.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to mention something before we forget that when it comes to hugging, because you're right, there's a problem.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: You you said it in the workforce.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if some people will will, you know, if that will make them uncomfortable that you're saying it's uh it we should.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: But what I do, um, and I'll do this with not just workforce, I'm saying with everybody.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: You you say that they ask for the hug, and that's great.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: You the permission to so I'll say I'm a hugger.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is it okay if I hug you?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect, right?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or something else without even using words, and no one you can't see me right now if you're only listening, but I'll open my arms up wide and then that second, that's the invitation, and you can read whether or not they're going to come in for the hug or they're gonna stand back.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: But if you open up your arms, it's an invitation without words that I'm coming in for a hug, or you can come in for a hug, and it works every time.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell some people are like, but they do it, and then I just wrap my arms around them and I give them a squeeze, and you can just you can feel their bodies, you know.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we watch it happen all the time at Travajoy, you know, because we're in these stuffy business places, like or large manufacturing plants where there's people that you know it's not a network-y type environment.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: This, these are some hardworking people that are feeding their families, and sometimes you're like, Oh, is this gonna work every time?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, every time.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And some people say no, and that's okay, and they get a fist or a high five.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and this there's an exchange of a smile, and so that that is something, but then my favorite is when people who are um stiff and uncomfortable lean into the hug and you watch, you watch them loosen, you watch their shoulders loosen and their bodies relax.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then immediately what happens next is you see a smile come across their face because that's the response to human touch, is that we feel that that inside light that warms us up that we're all really craving.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I read this quote, another quote in your book from Archbishop Desmond Tutu.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to read it.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Happiness is lovely, but joy is the far greater thing.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: Happiness flares and fades, joy roots and radiates.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: It grows when we exchange the culture we inherited for the connection we are made for.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's just sit for a second with that.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_01: In my work, though, I want to tell you that I talk a lot about the importance of connection.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first thing I teach in this course, I think I mentioned to you, is that you have to reconnect with your adult child.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I talk about that, this reconnection first with your adult child and or your adult child with you, and then that they start reconnecting with the world outside of their room in community.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: So clearly, we're the the the whole uh idea here is that connection is the foundation of joy.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to talk a little bit more about connection um because you know I mentioned this that I I want to leave something with the listener.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_01: And for so many young adults that are deeply disconnected and isolated, based on your work, um, what can adults do to begin rebuilding real connection?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they can't just go out and start hugging everybody.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, but could you imagine?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, right.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: What could the world look like if we all did that?
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, part of my story that you'll read about is um is finding the best version of myself on the other side of service.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's this, you know, our culture talks about serving and volunteering kind of as this like badge of honor or like something you put on a transcript because we want to get something from it, you know.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I see service as um as an opportunity, it's it's a playground for joy and activating our abilities and human connection.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a safe space for um for these adults to go in and serve and have meaningful connection in a really low-stakes way.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: High connection, low stakes.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a job, right?
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's not you have to be my best friend.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a networking event, um, or or you know something having to do with dating.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it is truly you are there to serve.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And typically nonprofits see all different types of people.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think exercising the opportunity to connect through volunteerism.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is so powerful.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you can start building your joy connection.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's how you can build your joy capacity is by volunteering.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you might find something you really enjoy.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh my gosh, I could be serving in a food bank, and they have they have this technology system that that helps with their processes of their inventory.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm actually really great at that.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I would love to do that to serve others.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe there's actually a job associated with that.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you get to try on different abilities that you have, and we call it activating your abilities.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like figuring out, oh, I've got those abilities and now I can activate them and begin to use them.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that's the first practical is like if you're if you're isolated, where are those low-stakes environments that have really high impact opportunities to begin that that connection and that joy capacity building?
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: What gyms can I go in that can help me build my joy capacity?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think that's that could be an easy step one.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's the best one.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's amazing.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Volunteering, and it's true.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people think I'm going to volunteer because it's going to look good.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or no, it's it's something that everybody should do if you're struggling.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're struggling and what it can, you're right, the the networking, the the what you can learn about yourself, the people that you can meet.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I love how you say that where the stakes are low.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's no judgment.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: You're they just want you there.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: You want talk about being needed, you're needed in volunteer service.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: I I we have hundreds, if not thousands, of stories of um people coming in to serve, thinking, I'm coming to serve because people need me, and walking away, realizing one girl who wanted to be a vet and she came in and fell in love with ESP and the people at ESP, activated an ability and realized, like, oh my gosh, I really love serving humans.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: She is now one of the top um doctors at Children's Health Care of Atlanta.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And she went to med school after that, had gotten into her top vet school, changed her mind, went to med school.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's um started autism clinics in Africa.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's leading the way in research at Children's Health Care of Atlanta.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it was because she served.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: But she went in and found these abilities that she had, which led her on this path, you know, and not all of us are going to become a doctor, but we could figure out like, oh, we really are great at this, or we're not great at that, but we are great at this.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then that helps us lead us to a new path.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like you said, in a really low-stakes way.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when we first spoke, I asked you who the target audience is for your book.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: And you said it's still sort of undefined because so many people can benefit from it.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: But now I completely understand why.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: I truly believe The Joy Exchange is one of those books that once you buy it, you can return to it again and again.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I I also appreciate the fact that 100% of your proceeds uh go to the organization.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you've given you've given us some really great tips and and suggestions that I hope parents can can take away from.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I want them to know how important it is for their young adult to experience joy, to feel truly delighted in something.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: And hopefully the Joy Exchange is a wonderful place to introduce that.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: So, Laura, I cannot thank you enough for writing this book and for taking the time to speak with me today.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm honestly, I think it's going to be a bestseller.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if it is, we'll serve a lot of people with it.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it's been it's been a joy to talk to you too and really an honor for anyone who's listening.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you for taking the time to listen.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I do believe that we are we are hardwired for joy.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I love feedback.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: So follow me on social media, Laura Hope Whitaker.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Give me your thoughts on the book or on the podcast.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to connect with you uh virtually.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: And we are doing a book tour, so maybe I can actually give you a hug in person.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that'd be great.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: That'd be great.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's been it's been a wonderful conversation, really has.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: I hope today's episode gave you valuable insights and actionable steps that will help you guide your young adult to launch successfully into adulthood.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you found this topic helpful, feel free to leave a comment and hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Leaving a five-star review helps us reach more parents who are dealing with the same issues.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if there's something you want to ask me, I invite you to join Launch Advice, my weekly publication where I answer one question from parents just like you.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's free advice that will appear in your inbox probably when you need it the most.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: Just click Launch Advice in the show notes and don't forget to email me your confidential question.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, no one ever said parenting is easy, especially when you're raising an adult.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to you soon.