Latest / The Resting Stitch Face Podcast / Have It All, But Make It Sustainable | Binie Klein on Work, Motherhood & Boundaries
Transcript
- Sarah Harding: Hello and welcome back for another episode of the Resting Stitch Face Podcast. I'm your co-host, Dr. Sarah Harding, along with Erin Sheffield: Dr. Aaron Sheffield. Sarah Harding: Welcome back. Erin Sheffield: We're so glad to be back. Today we have an amazing guest, Beanie Klein. Beanie is a life and leadership coach, keynote speaker, podcast host, and author of the playbook. She spent years coaching hundreds of ambitious professionals to build wildly successful careers without sacrificing their health, relationships, or the life they actually want. She has helped leaders level up their leadership skills and get better results through their teams. As a mom of three and an expert featured in CBS Miami and Forbes, she brings real world credibility and deeply personal understanding to every stage she steps onto. Welcome, Beanie. We're so excited to have you. And you sound like Sarah Harding: Hey Vini, welcome. Erin Sheffield: the perfect guest for our podcast, because these are the things we talk about pretty much every week. Sarah Harding: Yes. Binie Klein: Amazing. I'm so grateful to be here. Sarah Harding: Yes. So how did you end up in Miami? Binie Klein: I up in Miami, actually, where a Sarah Harding: Okay, okay. Binie Klein: lot of people haven't. I lived in Miami and then moved to New York and I met my husband from there. He's from Memphis and he did not like New York. And I loved it, but once I got pregnant with my first, I wanted to be closer to family. So I came back. Sarah Harding: Understandable. And how old are your kiddos? Binie Klein: They are almost seven, four, and one, so quite limited. Sarah Harding: right in my I've got a seven and a four. Whew. Binie Klein: Yeah, it's a hectic stage. Sarah Harding: You decided to have a third one after that. That's insane. Erin Sheffield: So how are you yes, how are you managing having these little kids at home and all of the work that you're doing? What's your number one tip for busy moms to stay on their game in the business world? Binie Klein: Biggest tip for me is being really focused and intentional. So it's it starts a little bit further back. I think, you know, if you believe you can or you believe you can't, either way, you're right. And I've always, if I take this back to my early 20s, I always knew that I wanted to do something big. Like I had big dreams for myself before I even knew what those dreams were. I had got my bachelor's in psychology and I I didn't think I wanted to be a therapist, but I was trying to figure out what my next move was. I was working a communications job and I didn't love it. And I remember thinking, I want to do something bigger. I want to be successful. But I also always knew I wanted to be a mom. At this point, I was already married. I got married quite young. And I remember thinking, how am I going to do all the things? How am I going to be really successful and have a big career, whatever that was, because I didn't know what that was at that point. But then be a great mother and also have a great marriage. I didn't want to be one of those people that you know, built up an incredibly successful career or business, but then my marriage was crumbling or I never exercised, I never took time for myself. I never saw my children. So I was thinking about like how am I going to do all the things? And that's what brought me to coaching. I stumbled upon coaching, life coaching. I realized like, okay, there might be a way to figure this out and then turn that into the business that I now do. But to answer your question, how I really do it, I think firstly the desire to want to do it. Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: Is where it really starts with. Like I've always wanted to work. I think working beyond the money, just the fulfillment and the impact and being able to use my gifts in this way really lights me up and makes me a better mother, hands down. I always see when and I just saw it now after a break. Like in August I didn't work much when my kids were off. And then I went back and I'm like, I'm a better person when I work. I don't know if that's like weird to say out loud, but I really am. So after just that belief part. I think just being really focused, I'm very boundary. Like from nine to three, four o'clock, I am working. I'm not doing anything else. I'm not doing the dishes. I'm not taking care of my kids. I am just doing work. Unless my kids are off and then maybe it's different. I also have help at home that helps me with that. But when I'm with my kids in the evenings, I'm with them also. And I think that's the only way to do it. And it's not really maybe so exciting or sexy, but being really planned and intentional and just home is home time. Work is work time. And I'm also okay with my business growing a little bit slower if that means I'm being the mom I want to be. But there's also so much that you can accomplish in the hours that you're working. So that doesn't end up Sarah Harding: Yeah. Binie Klein: being as much of a challenge. Sarah Harding: I think that's one thing that I don't think we dive into enough is the what we're fed and what we're told is like big growth, grow, grow, grow, growth mindset. And I love how you just said that. It doesn't, it's okay if my business is growing slower than, you know, what everybody else thinks it should. You're growing it intentionally and you're growing it so that it fits your life, not so that your life fits your work. And I think it's so I think everybody needs to hear that, you know? Because it's Binie Klein: Yeah. Sarah Harding: we're just taught that just go, go, go, go, go, build, build, build, grow, grow, grow. But sometimes that's just not the season of life that we're in. Binie Klein: Or at what cost? You know, you mentioned having a seven and four-year-old and me as well. Sarah Harding: Right. Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: And something I'm constantly thinking about is they're gonna grow up and they're growing fast. And Sarah Harding: Mm. Binie Klein: when they grow up, what might I regret? And there are going to be seasons when they're older where I could work if I want way more hours. But now being with them is important and also being really healthy and going to the gym and doing date night with my husband and all of those things matter to me as well. So it's not that I'm doing everything. But those things matter and it's okay growing a little bit slower. And like just giving ourselves permission to do that, you're so right. like social and all the places it looks like everybody has these massive businesses. But what do those people not have? Because a lot of those people who have massive businesses might not have the marriage or the health or the other pieces that you're saying are really important to you. Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: Wow. You're right. Erin Sheffield: I think this idea that women can have it all, I don't believe that. I think we can have a lot, but we have to be very intentional and kind of picky about the things that we are going to have. And then I think your boundaries advice is so important. And for me, that's a hard thing to do. It it bleeds. It bleeds Sarah Harding: Same. Mm-hmm. Erin Sheffield: over, right? Like one more phone call or one more email, or I'm just gonna do these dishes and next thing you know, you spend an hour scrubbing the dishes and the floor and the garage. Like maybe Binie Klein: I Erin Sheffield: that's my ADHD or something. But how do you how Sarah Harding: So the same. Erin Sheffield: do you set those boundaries? How how are you is this something that is common that you see with your coaching clients as well? Binie Klein: Yeah, so somebody gave me this advice when I started coaching and it really changed everything and helped me do this well. She said, don't do anything at home. Well, let me rephrase. She said, don't do anything that you wouldn't do if you were working a nine to five job during your business hours. And that really like was a light bulb moment for me because I remember thinking, I transitioned from a corporate communications job to working for myself. And I remember thinking, if I had a boss sitting right here, would I be washing the dishes or throwing in a load of laundry? Of course I wouldn't. And I think it's sneaky because a lot of us think to get ahead we need to be doing everything at once. Like put the load of laundry in so that it's working while you're working. But the truth is stepping aside from work and going to the washing machine to do that, it breaks your focus, especially when your hours are so short because you're trying to juggle multiple things. And I see it for my clients when I suggest this to them, my clients who want to go far and make lots of money and get the promotion, but also like have a life on the side, they have a lot of resistance to this because, like you said, just one more thing, or there's so many things to do, or I can't. It's about to be a holiday, or it's about to be my child's birthday. Like I have to, I have to, I just have to. But that's like looking very much at the short term. When you zoom out and they start to realize, like one second, what happens when I do this day in, day out, day in, day out? What does that end up doing? For my business, and what does that end up doing for my life? Because by the way, on the flip side, it's true. A lot of my clients, especially the ones who have businesses, they tell me that you know they're with their children, but they're answering messages from work, they're answering the emails, you know, the store's still open or the insurance clients Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: need you. But then what happens? One day it's not a problem, but if you're doing that every single day, then you start to feel not as happy at home because you know what our children really want from us, and I'm not a Parent expert. But what our children really want is our time and attention. And if we're always thinking about work when we're with them, then we're not winning on that front either. So clients definitely have resistance to it at first. But eventually when they start to realize like this works and they put it into practice, they realize like one second, this is actually a strategy. It's not holding me back, it's actually helping me get further in a sustainable way. Sarah Harding: Yeah. I remember that feeling especially when I went back for after maternity leave. And I remember thinking, I was so good at being one on one, full attention to the baby, you know, and it was it was really hard, right? Because I lost my whole identity of who I was before that. But I gained this new identity and I felt like I was doing a decent job at it, you know? And then you go back to work full time and I felt like I'm not good at Either of these things. I'm not good at home because I'm worried about everything else. I'm not good at work because I'm worried about the baby. I'm not, I just wasn't good at either. And it was such a hard thing, but you're right. It was because when I was in one place, I was thinking about the other thing. And when I was in the other place, I was thinking about the one thing, you know? And and I think that that really messes with your mind, you know, and then it just makes you feel like you're not good at anything. And then how do you move forward from that, right? Binie Klein: And it also could never feel like enough. I mean, you know, you mentioned before about the have it all and not believing that we can have it all. And it's interesting because I called my podcast that I just launched Have It All. And Sarah Harding: Congratulations. Erin Sheffield: no, I'm sorry, Beanie. Binie Klein: No, no, I actually leaned into that specifically because I know it's controversial and a lot of people think that you can't have it all. And that's a discussion that I have that you'll have to come on when you're in Miami. If you're ever visiting, you'll come on and we'll talk about it. Erin Sheffield: No fun. We better go. Binie Klein: Yeah, you better go. So one of the things that I think when it comes to have it all is I actually agree with you. I don't think we can't have everything, but I don't think that's what most of us really want. I think we really want the most important things. So we could actually feel like we have it all when we're intentional and design that. And I always give the example of going on a trip. If you're going on a trip and you're packing a suitcase, you just throw things in the suitcase. You're probably gonna get there and be like, shoot, I don't have that white shirt that I need and I don't have that pair of shoes. But if your thought through before and you make a list and you think about where is the trip? Where am I going? What sort of outfits do I need? Maybe I'm gonna bring that blue shirt because it matches with two different pants. You could go on the trip feeling like you have everything you need, even though you haven't actually packed your entire closet. And that's what I think having it all is, because we each can have a life where we feel like, damn, I have it all. I have all the things that really matter to us. Even if you're not checking off every box on the list. Erin Sheffield: Think that's a powerful Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: example. Yeah, and I think sometimes it's a times and a season thing. I might have this then and I might have that later. but yeah, I think that's really good thought. I like that. Sarah Harding: Yeah, it Binie Klein: Think about by the way, maternity leave, just to touch on what you said about having Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: a baby. When I came back just now with my third, one of my best friends had a baby at the same time. And I had gone back to work before her. She's a lawyer, so she was going back soon. But she messaged me. I like quickly breastfed my baby, handed him to my nanny, and came back to my desk. And I looked down at my phone and I had this text from her. And she said, my goodness, I'm having the best day. My baby is napping on me. All right, contact Nap's the best. That message sent me on a whole spiral of just feeling so guilty and sad. Of here I am handing my baby off to my nanny, giving away these precious moments. You know, it goes so fast. Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: And am I doing the right thing? That question of am I doing the right thing and am I giving him enough? But then am I giving the business enough? And it's just, I think it's important to mention because at any phase in business, and even if it's your second child or your third child, It's so easy to fall into that place because in theory, we we do want to spend all the time with our children and spend all the time building the business, but unfortunately it's just not possible. Sarah Harding: Yeah. And we all know that having our own identity apart from our children is really important and actually makes that bond stronger. And we all know that, but it doesn't feel like it when you get the text message that somebody else is enjoying their snuggles from their baby and you're at work, right? Binie Klein: Yeah, exactly. It does it it does not. It does not, it does not make it easier. And and something though that has made it a little bit easier for me, you know, having the privilege to have worked with many different women in different phases of life. In the beginning when I started coaching, I was working with anybody. And I worked with a lot of women who weren't working at the time. Like maybe they had worked and now they were taking a step back. And what was really interesting for me to see is those women Also struggled the same way you and I, and all of us who maybe have busy practices and busy businesses. Like they didn't always feel like the best moms. They also sometimes got takeout because they felt too stressed or overwhelmed. And it was a big light bulb moment for me in realizing that sometimes we think, because we are working moms, we must be like doing our children a disservice, or that's because that's why they don't have the most beautiful birthday party or dinner. But the truth is, all of us are struggling, and we could argue that we're getting fulfillment. And enjoyment and income, of course, that we're then giving our children. So that was interesting for me to realize. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Also I'm a Erin Sheffield: I've had moments Sarah Harding: shitty birthday planner, so you know, that's why you're don't have the most beautiful birthday. Erin Sheffield: where we've talked about that before. Thanks for bringing it up. Yeah. I was gonna say, I've had moments where I've wished I was the dad. Because the bare minimum as a dad, you're applauded. Like if you just showed up at all, it's like, what a great dad. And If you're working all day and you work long hours, then he's such a good dad, he's such a good provider. He's sacrificing, you know, being away Binie Klein: Super dad. Erin Sheffield: from the family is a Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Erin Sheffield: a worthwhile sacrifice. And they kind of just expect men to maybe be a little more self serving and to take care of their needs. And women, if you're not self sacrificing to the utmost, it's kind of, mmm, she's selfish. And so I've had those moments where I've kind of shamed myself thinking, is it? Bad that I hired a babysitter so I could go on a jog? Maybe I should be home. Or I'm working three days a week because I wanted to be home with the kids, but now the kids are at school and now I'm doing my side business. And sometimes when they're home from school, I'm still doing my side business. So am I not doing this right? And I have to remind myself: would I want that ultimately self-sacrificing martyr woman? For my own daughters? Like I really don't want that for them. I want them to be fulfilled as a person and to have boundaries and to be able to voice their desires and to live their fullest life outside of being a mom. And so I try to remind myself that when I'm having those moments of like maybe I'm choosing myself too often, that hopefully at least I'm modeling to my children. self care and love and you know, creativity and working for yourself and independence and all these other things. But it's so easy to get stuck in those stereotypes of how we think we're supposed to be, how we should be. Binie Klein: That is so, so true. And I love like thinking about it in terms of your daughter because we go back to the suitcase analogy for a second. It's the same thing. Like either we're like raising the bar or lowering the bar. Either we're becoming a better packer and we're figuring out how to fit more into that one suitcase by maybe rolling our clothes or using packing cubes, or we're saying, it's just a small suitcase. The only these five things could fit and that's it. And that's really what we're showing our children as an example. Like Can you raise the bar and actually still be a great mom and have your practice and have your side business? Like, yeah, you actually can. And I I like to think that we're making progress. I mean, what do you both think? Do you think we're making progress as a society for not shaming women for going on a job or having the side business or doing the things? Erin Sheffield: I don't know. I hope so. In some ways, maybe. Like my husband, Sarah Harding: I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Binie Klein: I do. Erin Sheffield: I told this story already, I think. We had gone on a family trip, but I had gone earlier to another event. So we had to drive separately to the airport. And then I wasn't feeling very good. So I'm I'm heading straight home. If anyone wants to come with me, fine. But the kids, most of them, wanted to go to dinner with dad. So they were gonna stop and make a time of it before they got home. So I'm like, I'm out of here. And so He ends up taking the kids to dinner by himself. And while he was there, someone getting takeout paid for their dinner. Which was so sweet, right? But I Binie Klein: Wow. Erin Sheffield: just I cannot I can't Sarah Harding: It wouldn't have happened if it was you taking them to dinner. Yes. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: That's what I'm trying say. Yeah, like I'm just imagining all the narratives like, the sweet dad. What a sweet dad. He's taking his kids Binie Klein: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: to dinner, or he's probably got the kids for the weekend and he doesn't know how to cook that poor guy. So let's help him out. And if I'd been there with him, I suspect we wouldn't have got our meal for free if it had been just me. It's just what we expect. so there's definitely, you know, those societal things that run strong and I think we don't even always like realize that it's ingrained in our brains too. Sarah Harding: Yes. Erin Sheffield: But so let's all go out and buy mom and her kids some dinner next time. Binie Klein: Absolutely. Sarah Harding: Right. Binie Klein: I am absolutely going to do that because you're so right. Like we, we, we work hard as well. And I think whatever progress we've made, there's definitely more progress to be made. Erin Sheffield: Yeah, definitely. Sarah Harding: Sure, of course. It is getting better. I do think that maybe it's not necessarily that we are changing. I think that the men around us that marry and stay married successfully are adapting to it. I think that's Erin Sheffield: Mm. Sarah Harding: the thing, is because a lot of these millennial husbands seem to understand sharing the load a little bit better, it seems. and so I think that it's that side of it is maybe getting better so that it alleviates doing ninety percent of the at-home stuff, you know, and working full time. I don't know. Binie Klein: Yeah. And I think we could take responsibility for our families, like you said, like your husband or your sons. I Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: have two boys and showing them that mommy works and the things that I do is very important. And yeah, my husband helps out a ton. We both work. He's super hands-on. And people Sarah Harding: Yeah. Binie Klein: make comments like, Wow. And I agree. Why should it be wow? It should be the standard. But I there's a saying that, you know, change starts at home. And instead of thinking about changing the whole world, which can feel overwhelming, we could change our communities, our families, our brothers, our husbands, our sons. It's a great place to start. Sarah Harding: Absolutely. Erin Sheffield: Well, it's funny how if we're honest about it, we live in a man's world and it it's changing, but men historically run the world, they still mostly run the world. And you think of all the amazing things they're doing, the businesses they're running, the countries they're running, the capabilities they have, and then the second they are home, how many men supposedly can't figure out how to run the laundry machine or the dishwasher or How to get groceries without calling every two minutes to find things. And I don't know. I think my husband has really stepped up. He's always been really helpful. But you know, it used to be, hey, what are we having for dinner? And did you get groceries? And now I've been so busy. He's been so amazing and he's flipped it. So now he's one. I better run to the store so we have food for next week. And hey I'm making chicken and rice for dinner tonight if you want to throw on some broccoli or something. You know, he's like taking that emotional load on. And so that has been amazing. Not just that he's making the meals, but he's taking over the whole emotional load of that too. And I'm sad to say I feel like that's kind of rare. But I also think, like, come on, guys, you're a surgeon. You can figure out how to use a washing machine. And I can give you a tutorial if you want. You know, but Sometimes we let them off the hook too easy, maybe. Binie Klein: Yeah. I agree, but did you I'm curious, did you like have a conversation or ask him like I'd love for you to step up more or was it just a natural thing? Erin Sheffield: It was maybe a natural evolution of me just not getting to it as much. And it like him filling in the gaps and then kind of naturally. But yeah, I think some of that's having the conversation. Sometimes we're just not willing or able. I mean, sometimes it too, that's an emotional load to have to explain. But sometimes maybe you could talk about this in leadership too. Sometimes it feels easier to not delegate in the moment because it's easier just to do it myself. Like for example. When I'm writing notes at work, I have templates I can make. And I'm surprised how I'll go a whole year with a template that I change on every single note because I don't spend the literally 30 seconds to go in and change it. And Binie Klein: Yes. Erin Sheffield: so it costs Sarah Harding: Yes. Erin Sheffield: us so much more on the back end, but in the moment it feels like this is just better. It's easier. So sometimes we need to invest Binie Klein: No, no, no. Erin Sheffield: in in our future self. Binie Klein: Yes, and think not think so short term, sh think long term. But the example of like hoping and getting frustrated that our husbands are not stepping up more is something that I think most of my clients experience because being very ambitious women, they're often the ones to do most of the work and the mental load and carry the mental load at home. But then they feel frustrated of why isn't my husband helping more? Why is it just me? Why do I need to be the one to remember everything? Why do I need to be the one to do everything? And what I say is, let's have a conversation. I get it, in an ideal world, your husband is bringing this up to you and not waiting. But if he isn't, we can either sit and wait and say he doesn't know, he hasn't run the washing machine in 15 years. I don't think he'll be able to do it now. Or if he's not bringing it up, maybe he can't, or maybe he won't. Or instead of all of these maybes and I hopes and I can't, why don't we have the conversation? Why don't we bring up and say, you know, how we're feeling and make the ass? And so many times. just that conversation and approaching it in the right way can create so much change. So I think if anybody's listening and thinking, I wish my spouse did more, what have you done to encourage them to do more? Let me think about Erin Sheffield: And I think too, so many of us are control freaks. So if the dishwasher's not road loaded the exact right way, then we make pay for it. So no wonder they don't wanna do the dishes. So I think sometimes we have to give up a little bit of that control and realize sometimes clean is clean. Binie Klein: Yeah. Sarah Harding: Why do you have to call me out, Erin? Binie Klein: Sure. Erin Sheffield: It's a prison of your own making, Sarah. Sarah Harding: It is, it is. But it's a really organized prison. You know. Erin Sheffield: There are some advantages. Binie Klein: It's hard. Yeah. At some things it's not worth it. I some things I'm like, I would rather do it myself. And then some things, okay, so it won't be done perfect and I'll have to learn to bite my tongue because saying something usually doesn't go over what very well. Erin Sheffield: Mm-hmm. Sarah Harding: Nope, it doesn't. That's that learned incompetence that you've just created. Yes. Yes. I understand that. Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: So I know you have a bit of a pivot story. We love pivot stories. Can you tell us a little bit of where you started business wise and how you got into what you're doing now? 'Cause I know it was kind of a transformation for you. Binie Klein: Yeah. So when I started coaching, I really started because I loved coaching. I loved the idea of helping someone get from point A to point B. And I realized that through a lot of coaching tools, I was able to figure out like, okay, I can create this business, I can be the mom I want to be and like have that life through the different Mindset tools, practical scheduling tools that I learn. So I thought, like, more women need this. I when I became a life coach, I didn't know a lot of life coaches. I thought it was kind of like a BS thing to do because the people I knew who did it, like would kind of like life coach, photographer, this, that, the other, like a million hats. I'm like, is this really a thing? But then I realized, wait, it actually is a real thing. So let me let me help people with this because I I believe it's needed. So in the beginning, I was just working with anybody and everybody and getting experience. And I realized two things. Number one, I loved working with people similar to myself, people who were very ambitious and were either in businesses or careers, had a lot of potential, but wanted help getting further without the overwhelm and the stress and the burnout that was often happening. And so I started working more and more with highly ambitious people, high performers, people, lawyers, doctors. photographers, realtors, insurance agents, people with physical stores, like many different things and helping them in their business, but their life as well. My goal is always you turn around and on Friday you feel like that was an amazing week, and I'm living the life I love. So that includes many pieces. But somebody asked me to give a talk, and I gave a talk, and that changed my life. Simple talk to a small group for free. But what I realized when I gave that talk is I love speaking. And in addition to coaching, I love like working with a large group of people. And how do I do more of that? So it took me a while to figure out how to do that more because I realized that getting booked as a speaker for me was a lot harder than getting booked as a coach. And it was really uncomfortable to put myself out there because for coaching, I let people come to me, but for speaking, nobody was coming to me. So I had to put myself out there and ask for those opportunities. but once I was able to get over that fear of putting myself out there, I started to reach out to people more and more and started to get those opportunities, started to get more opportunities. And I realized that in addition to just helping people feel like they have it all and choose their heart and the typical speeches that I was giving, I started getting really interested in leadership because what I noticed is that all of my clients who were growing and becoming really successful at what they did ended up with a team. You work you work a job and you do really well and you get promoted. Now you're managing people, or even if it's your own business, if you're doing well and you're ambitious, you're gonna bring other people in to support you. And a lot of people, a lot of us don't know how to be great leaders because it isn't something that we're taught. So how to work with people, how to get buy-in, how to get people to stay and want to produce their best work, how to give feedback, how to receive feedback, were all things that I started to help people with. And that's when I started doing leadership coaching separate from the life coaching. And then it turned into stepping into many different organizations and companies and helping leaders improve their leadership skills. And here we are. Sarah Harding: Wow. That is cool. Erin Sheffield: That's so cool. I think about, I think most of our listeners are probably doctors or dentists, and how we focus so hard in school on how to do all the hand skills. But then once you get out, that's such a minor part of what we're doing. The harder parts are the things that we didn't learn about leading a team and hard conversations with patients and making the sale. Not that I don't think most of us are thinking about the sale, but you have to sell your treatment. You have to sell. why this is gonna be beneficial, this person needs this. so I think that would be so helpful. And yeah, I see so many of my friends in healthcare are not into coaching. Like I think all the business people do coaching and that's really something that we see a lot, but I don't see as many people, I could be wrong, but that's my impression. Why do you think someone like you, what can you offer someone like us who's running a practice? Do you have any specific advice? Binie Klein: Yeah. So it's funny. I was going to a dentist for many years and I was talking to the dentist's wife who was managing the practice and I mentioned something about what I do and she was like, I love that, but I don't think my husband's gonna go for it. And I don't think any of our hygienists are gonna be interested. They like they what are they gonna learn from you? So I think one thing that I explained to her that really made the difference is it's not about me knowing your industry any better than you. It's about helping your team succeed and work well together. Because how well does the team know how to work with people, how to have the how to you know harness those leadership skills. And she used that to be able to convince them that firstly there's something to learn from a leadership coach, and also everybody can improve, even within our craft. I mean, I think about like the best of the best sports players, they have coaches. And it's not because the coach is better than them at the game, it's because the coach sees things and the coach has expertise. That the person playing the game desperately needs. So for somebody like you, for somebody running a practice, one thing that I love to support practices with is leading with impact. And how do each of us realize that we are the problem and the solution? And when we are able to take responsibility for us, take responsibility for our goals and realize nobody else needs to change. We don't need to wait for the hygienist to get friendlier. We don't need to wait for the economy to change or for patients Erin Sheffield: Mm-hmm. Sarah Harding: Right. Binie Klein: to act differently. When we change ourselves, when we change the way that we think, when we are no longer in overwhelm or victim mode, when we start to see things as opportunity and believe that we can have the team that we want, things change. And it's like a rotten apple. One apple affects the bag and a great apple can bring the rest of the bag up. So I love coming into practices and leading this lead with impact workshop and then. Often it'll come back come turn into a recurring series and helping everyone on the team realize whether I realize it or not, I am a leader and am I creating a team that depends on me? Am I micromanaging? What is my style without me realizing it? And what would be more helpful to have the team that I want? Because we all know that we want a better team, better results, more money, less overwhelm. We just have to look at what are we doing right now that's contributing to the problem and what do I need to change for that problem to disappear? Erin Sheffield: I think it'd be really fun. Can we put you on the spot? Can Binie Klein: Sure. Erin Sheffield: we give you a couple of scenarios? Common scenarios Binie Klein: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: maybe in a practice and maybe you can kinda do a little mini coaching session for us. Binie Klein: Go for it. Erin Sheffield: Okay. One I'm thinking about, I think it's tricky sometimes being the woman doctor in the practice. Most of our support people are women. And most of our colleagues are men. And I think it makes this kind of interesting dynamic where I don't really end up feeling that collegial with most of my male colleagues. Like they seem to have a relationship that I'm not really privy to. and so I end up kind of leaning more on the support staff. And, you know, we can become very friendly. And while I love that vibe, then sometimes it backfires a little bit. Sometimes that blurring of the boundaries and the roles gets kind of sticky and you get instances where maybe you need to ask them to do something or to hold the hard line and then they take it personally because you're my friend or how could you te speak to me or they try to take advantage. So what do you recommend for someone like me who's seen that in the past? how do we kind of hold those boundaries while also feeling like we're, you know, building this collegial team. Binie Klein: Interesting. I think the first interesting thing that you shared and thank you for sharing is you know I you know I'm a female, I have this female team, but then a lot of my like a lot of the rest of the team are males and I don't feel as connected to them. So I like I think it's interesting to actually start there. What would you love the team dynamic to look like? Erin Sheffield: Well, I think it would be nice. for example, my husband's clinic, there are multiple doctors there and they have parties and everyone shows up and they seem to enjoy getting along and they refer people back and forth to each other and they it seems like a big group, they have meetings where they strategize where the clinic is going together. And I've never been in that situation. Even if I've had a partner, it's usually just kinda like roommates, ships passing in the dark, you know. So It that's just a totally different vibe. I'd love to have more of that like big family feel, but instead it feels like just college roommates. Binie Klein: Mm, yeah. And what would be the benefit if it was a team feel and you felt connected to your partners? Erin Sheffield: Well, part of it I just think it'd be more fun to have a and support, you know, someone who knows a little more what it's like being on the doctor side and sometimes mentorship or maybe me mentoring them back, just that person to run things by and get advice or help from. Binie Klein: Yeah. So it's not only that you mentioned firstly fun and having fun at work and enjoying the time that you're there is super important. So let's not underestimate that. But then the second piece is connection, you being able to give advice, you being able to receive advice from them, having that connection. But what's interesting is because you have the thought, I'm female, they're male, we you know, we don't really have this connection, we're playing into this dynamic. It's not just them, it's also you of not creating that connection with them. But what you mentioned is instead you're connecting and being super friendly with the woman, with your support team, which isn't a problem, but it sounds like you're connecting in a way that isn't necessarily helpful at the end of the day. Because I always say connection is great, but when we're connecting that now feels uncomfortable to give direction or we feel like we can't, who is it really helping? Is it really helping them? What are your thoughts? Erin Sheffield: No, I mean it makes a dysfunctional work place for everyone. Binie Klein: Yeah. And is it really nice is it really necessary? Because I a lot of my clients will say, Well, I want I want my team to feel like they want to come to work. And I don't want to be that boss that's all business. But then so we think we're helping, but then at the end of the day, it ends up feeling trickier for them and for us. So what do you think the balance is? Firstly, there's two pieces. There's the male team, but then there's your support team. What do you think the balance is? Sarah Harding: So here's what I think is the interesting part of this is with the male doctor in charge, somehow it's okay for them to talk to the female support staff in a more like dad commandeering, bossy way. If I come in and I have the same inflection, the same tone of voice, the same words coming out, then I'm the bitch and I am. How dare she do this? And so I think that that's the that's the really hard part is it's like I want to have that relationship with my staff because that's a much more productive long term strategy, but it doesn't seem to go as well. Binie Klein: Hmm. So I think it's interesting. I totally hear that. And I see that in the companies I work with where there's a lot of male leaders and there's a lot of female Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: leaders. I think we need a mix of things. Number Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: one, we want to, of course, have the connection piece. So we know about our we know about our support team, we know about their goals, we know about their families, we know what their interests are, what they want to achieve over their career. It's very important for us to know so that we can like. When we're giving direction, we could tie it back to their goals and their motivators. And then of course, how was your weekend? And friendly and kind and thank yous. I think we don't say thank you enough. Thank you. I appreciate you. I notice that X. And I think a lot of my clients will think well, they didn't do anything that special to deserve that recognition. But they don't need to do a great job to get a good job. A good job could get a good job. And just having that dynamic and saying thank you more often. Helps the critique and the feedback land better. But then I also think the way that we're giving feedback is really interesting because I just had this with one of my clients the other day. He watched the cameras in his office and he saw something he didn't like. And he came to me and he said, Beanie, I have to give this feedback over and I'm nervous how it's gonna over. And one thing we discussed that I want to mention here is at the end of the day, you're the sports coach and your team. Are the players. And your job is to coach them and give them direction so that they can support the team into a win. And when you are giving feedback and you are asking something, it really should be seen in theory. And I'm curious if you agree, it should be seen as wow, what a gift. I'm here. I want to grow. I want to do well. I want to make more money. I want to stay in this job. And if my boss or my superior or my manager is giving me feedback. They're giving me valuable information that I can now use to keep this job or even stand out. Curious if you agree. Sarah Harding: But it has to be delivered appropriately. Binie Klein: But it has to be delivered appropriately. But I think even starting from from that place and you f because sometimes we come into the conversation and we're annoyed. my God, they did that again. Here we go again. I told them this four times, not to send the email this way, not to talk to a patient this way. And then we come in and we're annoyed and we're wondering why the feedback doesn't go over very well. So I think one of the first things for us when we're giving feedback or we're asking for something is to make sure that we are cooled down. And I don't think it's my opinion, I I don't think it's helpful to think about, well, you know. So-and-so on my team who's a male, when he gives feedback, everybody takes it well. Because that just puts us in like that victim space. I think thinking about one second, how am I feeling right now? And am I in the best head space and energy? Am I feeling my best to give over that, to give over that piece of information right now? And if we're boiling because something just happened, maybe taking a couple of minutes to cool down and give it over in a way that will land better with our people. It's kind of like an oven. When you bake, when you broil chicken on 500 and you're running late. And you need to bake the cookies, you can't stick the cookies in at 500. They're gonna burn. You have to wait till the oven cools down to put the cookies in. So I think remembering that you're the coach, they're the team, we're on the same team, we want the same thing. I'm here to give valuable feedback and letting ourselves cool down first, paired with knowing our team, knowing our goals, saying thank you consistently can solve some of this. What are your thoughts? Sarah Harding: I agree. I think that's a really good point. Because I feel like we're always worried that you come across as the, you know, mean bitch, the whatever it is, you sort of start to tailor your approach to avoid that feedback, which isn't always helpful. Binie Klein: Yes. Then sometimes it can get even get more confusing. But I love like when I'm giving over feedback, whether it's with my team or I'm supporting somebody else and giving feedback over to their team, is thinking about why is this feedback important for them? So after the ovens cool down, which has helped, like I actually share that analogy with a client recently because sh someone left her team because she said she was too bitchy. And so she asked to be switched to another team after a conversation. So it's funny you shared this. And then with the oven analogy, she was like, you're right. Okay, I guess I was kind of frustrated when I said that I'm gonna work on that. So that's been her work. But thinking about what, like, what's what's in it for them? For like if I want them to say things, let's just say, say good morning to every single person that walks in. And they're rolling their eyes and saying, my God, Dr. Sarah, Dr. Harding, she's just, my God, she's so annoying. Every nothing I do is good enough. But if we take a step back and think, and you're left to giving this over to a woman, Patricia. Just think about this for a second. And you're saying, Patricia, why do you think it's important for us to say good morning? I know we've talked about this. Why do you think it's important? What happens when we say good morning? Why does that really like make a difference for us? why are we even right? Like, why are we even here? Because like Sarah Harding: 'Cause it disarms people. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Binie Klein: we're here essentially, we're a business to make money. And how does saying good morning help us do that? And so, like, when we really ask the questions and we get them to Explain and like buy into what we're saying instead of us just saying, You haven't said good morning before, you need to say it again. I've also seen that work really well, asking more questions. Sarah Harding: But then I've also seen on the flip side where they get used to you saying good morning and then you don't say good morning and they're like She didn't even say good morning to me today. You're like, for goodness sakes, we can all have a bad day, you know. So, right. Yes. Binie Klein: Yes. Right. Yes. Yes. None of us are perfect and we're all working on it. A hundred percent. Sarah Harding: So, and Erin has Erin Sheffield: Gosh, that's funny. Sarah Harding: had the a similar experience with the well, maybe you we can't give bonuses. Maybe you just need to say thank you more. And like that can only go so far, right? Like when people are having trouble, you know. It would be surely be nice if they are rewarded monetarily every once in a while for their hard work, as opposed to just a thank you. Because yes, we all do appreciate the thank you. But sometimes it would be really nice, yeah. Binie Klein: Yeah. And it's a balance. I remember when I like in jobs that I work before, the thank yous went really far and I Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Binie Klein: was getting like underpaid compared to what I could be making, but I stayed at the job a lot longer than I probably would have because of how appreciative they were in the Sarah Harding: Yes. Binie Klein: environment that they set. But yes, we do need bonuses and we need money because we work hard and money pays the bills. So it's the balance. Sarah Harding: Right. Well, there's a balance. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I worked in plenty of places where the people that worked there were not getting paid very much, but they referred to it as like Disneyland, you know? And Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: one was a children's hospitals, the special needs children's hospital. And everyone loved working there. Loved it. Loved it. Because the team worked well together. Everybody supported everybody. There was all one goal, one mission, and everybody was working towards the same thing. And people were gracious and also grateful, you know, at the end of each day. And it was so weird. Binie Klein: Yeah, it's cra it it is. It really it really works. I mean, there's a ton of research around it, but also people people say. So I think it's interesting if you're listening and you have a team and maybe you're not in a position to pay more right now or give more bonuses, just remember that. People stay at companies for their managers or leave because of their managers. And you can make a difference in the team dynamic. So maybe you can't give a bonus right now or you can't give a raise past two percent, three percent, whatever the number might be. But what can you do? Because there are a lot of things you can do to make people happier. Erin Sheffield: I've seen the opposite too, where you work on a team or at a place where they're telling you, this is a family. We are a family. This is a family. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: And I'm thinking, what kind of family is this? This is like a super dysfunctional. I wanna leave this narcissistic dad family type of thing, you know? Binie Klein: Yes. My husband always says, he's said this forever, like the the more a company says this is a family or has those like notes on the wall, like you know you're not gonna be treated very well. They're overcompensating. Erin Sheffield: It's yeah, I feel like it's that vibe like if you have to say your something you're probably not like I'm so humble. Binie Klein: Yeah. And it's not a family at the end of the day. I don't think it's a family. It is work. There's a job to do. You're gonna get let go if you're not doing it. Like I don't think we have to say it's a family. We can treat people well, but we're not a family. Family is family and work is work. Sarah Harding: And also we treat our families worse than we treat other people because they still have to love Erin Sheffield: Well and I've had so many That's true sometimes. Sarah Harding: us at the end of the day. So Binie Klein: That is true. That is true. Erin Sheffield: And I've had so many instances where you feel like your coworker is your best friend, you know, you know so well, you see him all day, every day, and then the second they leave you don't hear a word from them. So that Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Erin Sheffield: forced proximity definitely creates some interesting dynamics socially. Binie Klein: Yeah, absolutely. And it works when it works and it doesn't when it doesn't. And it's just helpful to realize. And on the other side, I'm thinking about a company I recently worked with who pays really well and is also having a retention problem. So it's just interesting to notice that there's a lot of there's a lot of dynamics that go into people staying. And you know, I think like staying out of like there's nothing we can do because the economy or because we don't have money. If you're like on the leadership side, think about like if I want my people to stay. And also I demand a lot. What support can I give? Because I believe if you have high standards for your team, you also need high support, whether that's coaching, development, appreciation, bonuses. So just make sure the two are matching up to the best that you can. Erin Sheffield: Love that. That's really good advice. Well, if people are wanting to find you, Beanie, how do we find you? If someone is looking for you as a coach, how can they get in touch with you? We'd love to hear more how we can continue to follow you and learn from you. Binie Klein: So I post a ton of insight on Instagram. So if you just want to follow along, connect, say hi, learn what I'm up to. It's Beanie Klein at Beanie Klein on Instagram, spelled exactly this way. And my website is beanieclein.com. So if you're interested in coaching, I offer a free goal mapping call, talk about your goals, what are the next steps? I help you figure out what your next steps are and decide if coaching is the right fit. And if you want to get in touch. About bringing me to your event or to your company, be meclient.com. You can send me a DM on Instagram. You'll see all the things when you look at those places. Erin Sheffield: Great. Well thank you. Yes, thank you so much. Sarah Harding: Awesome. Well, thanks for coming on and joining us today. It's been really great Binie Klein: Thank you so much. This was so fun. Sarah Harding: talking to you. Yeah. Binie Klein: Thank you. Sarah Harding: All right, Aaron, you wanna take us away? Erin Sheffield: All right. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Resting Stitch Face podcast. As always, please like and share with a friend and we'll catch you next time. Thanks. Sarah Harding: See you later. Bye.