Latest / Be A Global Citizen! / 192. Jason Lions: Engaging in Life-to-Life Encounters to Transform the Individual and Society

Transcript

192. Jason Lions: Engaging in Life-to-Life Encounters to Transform the Individual and Society · Be A Global Citizen!

0:05
Hi there, and welcome to Be a Global Citizen, the podcast that
0:08
explores the concept of global citizenship through the lens of
0:11
value creating education. My name is Scott Bauer and I'm
0:15
Ahsoka, researcher and educator. I hope you find the discussion,
0:18
stories and insights on this podcast to be valuable and
0:21
inspiring as we strive to become global citizens who are
0:24
committed to living a contributive life.
0:26
Enjoy. Hi everyone.
0:33
I'm Jason Lyons. I live in Los Angeles from
0:36
Virginia, currently an executive and an educational services
0:41
company for autistic kids. Welcome, welcome, Jason.
0:45
Thank you so much for being on the podcast.
0:48
Very excited to have you on the podcast.
0:50
I've been reaching out and trying to find the right time
0:53
and also just kind of prepping myself as well because, you
0:57
know, it's I, I know you've done so much work in the education
1:00
space and not only like the difficult work of being like a
1:04
school leader, you've had a lot of teaching experience prior as
1:07
well. But I think what I'm most
1:10
excited to hear about is the kind of, you know, vision,
1:14
right? Like this, these kind of like
1:15
big lofty goals that you really put out there.
1:18
And and yeah, and then some of them I, I also, you know, have
1:22
been supporting my myself, but I just think that it's really
1:26
inspiring the work that you're doing, how you got to where you
1:29
are as an educator. And I think you're a great
1:32
example of a humanistic educator.
1:34
So yes, you know, it's can't wait for the audience, the
1:38
listeners to to learn a little bit more about your background.
1:41
And so, you know, you're you find yourself as an executive at
1:45
this, this this Learning Center, you know, for autistic children.
1:50
And, you know, I'm curious to know like what what brought you
1:55
to that work? But also just kind of more
1:57
broadly, like what about being an educator really kind of like
2:02
ignites you and, you know, fulfills you, I guess.
2:06
So feel feel free to share out for however far back you'd like
2:10
to go about what what brought you to the work, specifically in
2:13
education? Yeah.
2:15
Thank you so much, Scott, and I really appreciate your
2:19
sentiments, especially coming from you.
2:21
And it's so great to be able to work together with you,
2:24
especially to advance humanistic education.
2:27
And, you know, also to your listeners, I'm, I'm so excited
2:31
to interact with them and I, I hope they're a part of this
2:34
dialogue. Yeah.
2:36
And I, you know, just something to know about me.
2:39
I'm a very open person, so definitely want to share kind of
2:43
the, the roots of why I'm involved in education with
2:47
respect to my personal experience, because I think it
2:49
really informs my journey. I will, I will try not to make
2:54
it too long, but essentially, you know, I, I grew up in a very
2:59
impoverished home in a very impoverished community in rural
3:02
Virginia and was the victim of domestic abuse and very, very
3:10
serious abuse to the point that, you know, it's severely
3:15
traumatized me as a child. So fortunately, the person, you
3:19
know, who was responsible left when I was young.
3:22
But as a result of that abuse, I developed like all this stuff as
3:26
a teenager. I had PTSD, anxiety and eating
3:29
disorder and depression, just all these things that really
3:34
affected my ability to thrive, especially in school.
3:38
And you know, I, I also because of the social anxiety, started
3:42
to miss a lot of school. So, you know, this was a while
3:45
ago. I'm not going to say how long
3:46
ago, but you know, there's not, there's not at least in the era
3:52
I was in, there was not Ieps. There was not, you know, all
3:55
these supports that are in place now.
3:59
And you know, I don't think there was as much of an
4:02
awareness or understanding of any sort of like support around
4:07
mental health issues or, you know, supporting people,
4:11
students through through various challenges at home.
4:14
And So what I encountered, which is very much a rule based system
4:19
where it was like, you can only miss 10 days of school.
4:23
And after that you have to come before an appeals board and
4:28
plead your case as to why you're missing so much school.
4:31
And I did that. I had AI had a litany of
4:34
doctor's notes and professionals and everything, but I was told
4:38
by my school that's not good enough, which resulted in in
4:42
quite a difficult journey for me to be able to make it through
4:45
high school. And to be honest, I, that's that
4:49
moment in my life when this board of people who really
4:53
didn't understand anything about me or my life kind of rejected
4:56
my effort. You know, I was making a lot of
4:59
effort. I was in night school.
5:00
I was doing a lot to try to catch up.
5:02
Even though I was behind. I felt like betrayal by people I
5:06
should really be able to trust who are there to support me.
5:09
And, you know, it was one of the first kind of injustices I
5:14
experienced in my environment as a young person.
5:18
And I really determined like, this has to change.
5:22
We can't have an educational environment where where young
5:26
people feel like they're abandoned, right if they're
5:29
going through some sort of struggle.
5:31
Needless to say, that motivated me to be a teacher.
5:34
I started working in title one school with underserved youth at
5:40
risk youth and eventually started to encounter
5:45
neurodiverse young people and really had a passion for that
5:50
and ran a special education program for one of the biggest
5:55
privates, I'm sorry, public schools in the area.
5:58
And I just saw a lot of discrimination too and, and
6:01
injustice happening in that system.
6:03
So it kind of took me on this journey about finding a way to
6:08
support young people who are trying to develop in a way that
6:13
is meaningful and, and tailored to them as an individual, right
6:18
versus just your rules you need to fit into the system.
6:21
If you don't, then so sorry, right.
6:25
So that that kind of led, led me on this journey.
6:28
And, you know, I got into administration and private
6:30
schools and became a principal and a Superintendent, you know,
6:35
of a, of a private school system.
6:38
And then, you know, my own child actually was born autistic.
6:42
And so, you know, working with many people in autistic
6:46
community and then seeing the impact of a traditional
6:50
education on my own son led me to want to lean into that and be
6:55
a more, be more of a supportive part of that community.
6:59
So that's why I'm at my current job.
7:02
Wow, thank you so much Jason for for sharing that.
7:05
And I, I appreciate you, Yeah, being very open and, and
7:10
vulnerable about the, the, the past traumas that you
7:13
experienced early on in your childhood and how it just was
7:18
such a, such a battle to, it was probably just such a battle just
7:23
to even like, you know, wake up in the morning, right?
7:26
To, to even decide to, to, to go to school to try and catch up.
7:32
And, and, and it felt like, you know, from what you were sharing
7:34
that there was just like kind of not only the environment was not
7:39
set up to support you, but probably as a result of that,
7:42
you were probably just feeling this kind of tremendous weight
7:45
of like the whole world is kind of against me, you know, And I
7:48
think that that's how a lot of young people probably experience
7:52
the, their environment when it's, it's, it's negative, it's
7:56
severely lacking in resources, right?
7:58
There's just probably so many other kind of components to that
8:02
where then it becomes internalized and, and then it
8:06
starts to really affect the way they see the world and how they
8:10
feel about the world, right. And that kind of gets more to
8:13
the heart space. So in terms of, you know, like
8:16
seeing that injustice around you and but then continuing to
8:20
persevere. I guess my next question is,
8:23
well, if it wasn't coming from the environment from like the
8:28
educational background, what was it that helped you to continue,
8:32
like to persevere in that battle earlier on, you know, when you
8:36
were, you know, trying to go to night school and like catch up
8:39
and and and graduate? So like, yeah, what would you
8:43
say it was like a really important factor for you to kind
8:47
of overcome a lot of that hardship?
8:49
Because I mean, yeah, that's, that's not at all an easy thing
8:53
to to experience and then let alone to overcome.
8:57
Yeah. I mean, I think, I think the
9:00
major theme of what allowed me to transform would be this great
9:06
Buddhist philosophy that I encountered through my mother,
9:10
right. And she, you know, was
9:14
experiencing the same domestic violence that I was.
9:18
But I, in that situation, lost hope and really felt like this
9:24
is going to end in tragedy. But my mom had such tremendous
9:27
hope and conviction. And, you know, I was young, so
9:31
it took me a while to kind of figure out where that was coming
9:34
from. Because at first, to be honest,
9:36
I thought it was irrational. Like, what do you mean?
9:38
Like we're going to transform this?
9:40
This is terrible, right? But I realized that she had this
9:43
great philosophy underpinning that hope.
9:47
And so I really decided to engage with that because of her
9:51
and practice Buddhism. And, you know, I, because of,
9:56
you know, the trauma I was experiencing, it was pretty hard
9:58
for me to be active in, in the Buddhist community, which, you
10:04
know, we, we refer to as the Shi Sokugakai International.
10:08
But what was amazing is these young people started to visit me
10:14
and encouraged me. You know, they would say things
10:17
to me that honestly, I really rejected.
10:21
They would say things like you have a mission and your
10:25
experiences are going to inform that mission and allow you not
10:29
only to transform your suffering into something meaningful, but
10:34
use that meaning and that transformation to inspire and
10:38
support other people. And I, I really didn't believe
10:42
that for a long time. I, I honestly felt like somehow
10:46
I was just going to figure it out on my own.
10:49
But I couldn't deny the conviction of these young men,
10:52
especially that came to visit me, even though I wanted to for
10:56
so long. And especially when I got to the
10:58
point where I was so frustrated with the situation of my life
11:03
that I didn't know how to move forward.
11:05
I was ready to listen to them. And you know, that the message
11:10
ultimately that struck me, which kind of led me to my mentor as
11:14
well, is that, you know, the greatest way we can live is not
11:18
just for our own desires or to eliminate our own suffering, but
11:24
to help everyone around us, right?
11:26
And to realize that everyone is going through struggles and that
11:30
we can be a part of elevating them while we ourselves, you
11:34
know, persevere through our own challenges, right?
11:37
So once I started to live that way, that's when my life began
11:41
to change. And it took many, many years of
11:46
encouragement you decide to do that.
11:49
But you know, since I did it, I never looked back.
11:52
And I really feel like that's been the key to to my growth and
11:56
and transformation as a person. Yeah, thank you for for sharing
12:00
that. I, I wanted to touch upon maybe
12:02
like the, the actions of your, your mom first before we get
12:06
into the home visits from these, these wonderful young people
12:10
reminding you that you have a mission and that you are an
12:14
incredible young person yourself.
12:18
I, I'm curious to, to learn a little bit more about your, your
12:22
mother's story and encountering this Buddhism because like you
12:27
said, you initially were like, you know, had already lost hope
12:31
and you felt like, why are you trying this Buddhist practice of
12:35
yours? You know, you said that you were
12:38
living in, in rural Virginia. So I'm just wondering like, how
12:41
does you know, how does your mother, you know, find this
12:45
practice in a place like rural Virginia?
12:48
And, and then also like, yeah. And then maybe can maybe could
12:52
you speak a little bit about like some of like the, the core
12:55
values of of the practice that have like really been instilled
12:59
within you from from that point early in your childhood, but yet
13:03
continue to remain even up until now?
13:06
Yeah, So my mom, you know, she's had this incredible journey.
13:12
She's been practicing Buddhism most of her life, but she's,
13:16
she's really struggled as a person, especially when she was
13:19
young, just kind of experiencing all kinds of abuse.
13:21
But she actually went to Los Angeles.
13:24
She was like a hippie at one point in her life and she
13:28
encountered it, you know, just meeting some friends on the
13:31
street who told her about it. And it was a community.
13:35
So they, they would have like neighborhood gatherings that
13:39
you'd go to and just have dialogues about life, you know,
13:42
and it's pretty appealing to her to, to engage in, in that.
13:47
But, you know, she was very loosely connected.
13:49
But I think the thing that really helped her develop a a
13:53
solid relationship with, with Buddhist practice was, was just
13:57
their friendship, you know, and their commitment to support her.
14:00
And then, you know, she met my dad and, and, you know, moved to
14:03
Virginia, but it was kept alive because of the like, nurturing
14:09
and encouragement she got. And, you know, in terms of the
14:14
values like she instilled from that in me.
14:17
And then also what I've gained, you know, I think the first
14:21
thing from my mom was this unbelievable hope and
14:27
conviction, right? Like I was talking about and
14:30
what what I think is important to note about it is that it
14:34
wasn't she had hope because there were external signs to be
14:39
hopeful about. It was that she had hope and
14:42
conviction because she decided to, you know, and it was through
14:46
her practice, right? You know, as, as Buddhist and as
14:50
she are, we chant Nami o'harn get Kel.
14:53
You know, it's like kind of our daily practice, which is a
14:56
mantra that essentially is this deep appreciation for our life
15:03
and the universe and, you know, the determination to kind of
15:07
bring out our best self, right. And so, you know, it's it's an
15:11
active practice and she was really engaged in it.
15:14
And I think that fundamentally for her is what allowed her to
15:18
develop that sense of open conviction and in the midst of a
15:21
situation where there was none. And then I think the other thing
15:28
that really developed for me, you know, through encounters
15:32
with people and the Buddhist community, and then also, you
15:35
know, someone who I consider a mentor in life, Daisakvikita, is
15:39
just this the answer to this question of like, what is the
15:44
best way to live as a human being?
15:46
And, you know, I think what I gained from from their behavior,
15:54
even more so than their words, was that working for the
15:57
happiness of humanity, which includes us, it's not separate
16:02
from us as a whole. And and thinking about how our
16:05
actions impact others, you know, not just our family, but our
16:10
community society as a whole allows us to become our best
16:14
self. And it's a process, right?
16:17
And, you know, we call it Buddhism, we call it humor,
16:19
evolution, but it's this idea of, you know, transforming your
16:25
inner self align with your goal of becoming happy.
16:30
Helping others become happy allows you to become the best
16:33
human being you can possibly be. And so it's a lifelong endeavor,
16:38
but it's really inspired and informed kind of everything I've
16:40
done, especially as an educator. Wow, thank.
16:46
Thank you so much. What a what a great explanation
16:48
of, of, you know, this particular Buddhist practice
16:52
with the Sokovaki International. And I really appreciate you
16:57
sharing more about your mom. I think it really speaks to like
17:00
the impact that that one person can make that that decision like
17:04
that, that encounter and you know, that decision to really
17:08
strive towards engaging in that process that you were talking
17:12
about that human revolution and realizing that, you know,
17:17
through like really going head head on into those struggles and
17:23
using this practice, it allowed her to truly show this actual
17:27
proof to those around her. And I think in particular when
17:30
it comes to families, you know, like children are closely
17:34
observing everything that their parents are doing and yes,
17:39
right. And and so I think that, you
17:41
know, it, it was something that you were very much kind of like
17:45
observing and trying to make sense of.
17:48
But then I think now kind of bringing in the other young
17:53
people within the SGI community. It was this kind of collective
17:57
effort, right? Of really like the whole like it
18:00
takes a village to raise a child kind of mentality of people
18:04
really kind of like almost like a like they were home, home like
18:07
as I go. What's it honey missile?
18:10
I mean, that's kind of like very violent actually.
18:11
But maybe it was just like this attraction, right?
18:13
I'm more like a magnet. Let's use that.
18:15
Let's use the magnet one where they they were able to see your
18:19
incredible potential and they wanted to nurture you in the
18:22
same way that your mom was being nurtured herself back, you know,
18:26
in, in Los Angeles. And, and so, you know, my, my
18:31
next question is regarding right, these, these visits that
18:35
the the young people would do. It sounds like it's, it's, it's
18:39
very much this kind of like community, kind of, you know,
18:42
like engagement of them really trying to, you know, connect
18:47
with you. So like, could you maybe speak a
18:50
little bit more about like, I don't know, maybe there's like
18:53
an, a particular anecdote, like a, you know, experience that
18:56
came up with a particular individual who is trying to
19:00
reach you. Because I feel like it's, they
19:03
probably just didn't like try visiting you once and they're
19:05
like, oh, Jason, not interested. So I guess see you later, but
19:08
it's probably many, many repeated attempts because, yeah,
19:14
you know, you were in such a a, a state of, of, of, of life
19:18
where all the things that you you said were, you know, like
19:21
just one of them would have been enough to really kind of bring
19:24
someone down. And yet you had so many
19:27
different hardships kind of piled on top of each other.
19:31
So could you maybe speak a little bit to what that was like
19:35
in terms of them visiting you and maybe a particular
19:37
relationship that kind of shines as like, oh, they didn't give up
19:41
on me. Yeah, so we, I mean, I mean,
19:46
just to speak to the relationship these guys had with
19:50
me, you know, I think one of the things we crave most in life is
19:54
genuine friendship, right? And, and what does that mean?
19:57
Right. And, you know, I think naturally
20:01
people have like people they just kind of hang out with, have
20:05
fun with. There's kind of the deeper
20:07
friendships where, you know, we're celebrating each other's
20:11
goals and. You know, kind of high fiving
20:13
each other in our progress in life.
20:15
But but I feel like there's this this deeper level of friendship
20:19
where people are willing to give their life for you and, you
20:22
know, do anything and everything they can to support you as a
20:26
person. And that kind of friendship is
20:30
so powerful and and you know, to be honest, rare.
20:34
And I feel like I, I had that with these guys, even though I
20:38
wasn't yet becoming that kind of person to them.
20:41
They were that person to me. And, you know, I just couldn't
20:45
be, to be honest, because I was so withdrawn.
20:48
You know, I would disappear for months at a time when return
20:51
people's phone calls. I was also very difficult and
20:55
standoffish because of my anxiety and, you know,
20:57
everything, right? But that that just didn't matter
21:00
to these guys. So it just kept coming.
21:03
And you know, I think one of the biggest turning points for me
21:07
was actually when I in my early 20s, I just kind of think I'm
21:11
going to figure this out. That's that was my attitude
21:14
about life. And but it just the anxiety,
21:17
everything just kept coming back in and tearing my life apart no
21:20
matter what I would build. And I got so exhausted from that
21:23
effort, I just kind of gave up. I was like, I'm done.
21:26
You know, whatever happens to me is fine, but I'm just just not
21:29
going to try anymore. And you know this guy who was
21:33
really worried about me at that point, you know, he lived about
21:36
5 hours away and he drove to my house one way not even knowing
21:42
if I was home to encourage me. And like who does that right?
21:46
I mean I wouldn't even pick up the phone, but he just came
21:48
anyway, you know. And he would have, he would have
21:50
to drive 5 hours home, right if I didn't answer the door.
21:54
But you know, I was able to to meet with him and you know, the
21:59
two things he said to me were pretty simple.
22:02
But he but like he talked about the idea of like, what is the
22:07
core kind of tenet of Buddhism, which is fundamentally valuing
22:11
your life and not negating that value, right?
22:14
Like realizing that you and all people have this unbelievable
22:18
potential and value and that we can't disparage ourselves,
22:23
right? And that was really crucial.
22:26
Then he, he talked about cause and effect, which is it's kind
22:29
of the underlying law of the universe.
22:32
It's with respect to like Buddhist philosophy, you know,
22:36
and we're all kind of aware of cause and effect and, and the,
22:39
the scientific term, right? And, you know, just the
22:42
immediate idea of it, like you put your hand on a stove and you
22:45
get burned. But he was talking about the
22:47
deeper meaning of it, like, you know, all the actions we take in
22:51
life have an impact. Do they have an effect, right?
22:55
Even if we can't immediately see that effect, it is manifesting
22:58
all the time. And so he said if life is truly
23:01
cause and effect, if you want to become happy in this life, you
23:06
have to also work for the happiness of other people.
23:09
And he said, you know, even if you feel like you don't have
23:13
anything to offer, I think you do, you know, your experience
23:17
and also you have a philosophy and A and a community that many
23:23
people do not. So why not encourage them and be
23:25
that kind of person for them? And, you know, I really thought
23:29
about what he said and, you know, to be honest, my own self
23:33
doubt was like, well, what? You know, who's going to be
23:35
encouraged by me? But I realized like, no, I have,
23:38
I have been the recipient of such great friendship for nearly
23:42
a decade, you know, and it's time that I was that person,
23:46
right? And just the act of starting to
23:49
do that for other people, it was like so much of what was
23:53
plaguing me up to that point evaporated like mist, you know,
23:57
before my eyes. And I was able to feel lighter
24:00
and move forward and start to work and, you know, finish
24:03
school and do all these things that seemed impossible before.
24:07
And, you know, it just came from really understanding, you know,
24:11
that core idea of Buddhist philosophy.
24:17
Yeah, thank you so much, Jason. I I really appreciate this like
24:20
emphasis that you're placing on on friendship, what genuine
24:23
friendship means and the fact that especially like when we we
24:28
see like a young person who might be more withdrawn, closed
24:32
off just dealing with a lot of stuff.
24:35
It's OK, right. It's it's actually quite
24:38
natural, right for them to really be in the depths of like
24:41
really grappling with like their present reality, who they are,
24:46
what all of this means moving forward.
24:49
But to have that great fortune of individuals who genuinely,
24:54
you know, see your potential, who genuinely, genuinely want
24:57
your happiness and who are willing to take that time and,
25:01
and, and do the effort of like driving 5 hours One way to, to
25:06
meet you, I think is just incredible modeling of like what
25:11
the, the, the ideal is, right? And, and also just maybe not
25:14
even ideal, but just like what it takes to really, you know,
25:17
like people always think of, you know, like kind of quick fixes
25:20
or silver bullets and this and that, right?
25:22
But to gain the trust of a, a young person is, is no small
25:27
feat. And, you know, and I think that
25:30
now you know, the way that like, you know, at least I see the,
25:35
the world that we live in with, you know, so many distractions
25:39
and so many different kinds of like things that are kind of
25:42
taking our attention in one way. And, and then also the, the,
25:46
the, the sense that, you know, mental health is really kind of
25:50
reaching a critical juncture where it's just, you know, it's,
25:55
it's just so present, right? And, and so much of like the
25:58
school's, you know, environment, the school environment, home,
26:02
family dynamic. So now it's like, well, how how
26:04
is anyone able to connect and, and really be able to like value
26:08
one another when they're just in this kind of like sea of, you
26:12
know, I don't know, social media and and noise and doubt, but
26:17
it's, it's, it's really hopeful, right?
26:21
To hear that, you know, in, in, in a case like, you know, what
26:25
you're sharing about your, your childhood, that it was not
26:29
impossible, right? Far from it.
26:31
And, and then to be able to turn that around and really be able
26:34
to then like say it, OK, now it's my turn.
26:37
And, and to, yeah, I would imagine, right.
26:39
You have the depths of like your understanding and your ability
26:42
to empathize with others who are experiencing, right, the, the
26:46
anxiety or the feeling of like PTSD from past experiences of
26:51
maybe it's domestic abuse or, you know, other kinds of
26:54
traumas. Like you can be that person to
26:57
say, I understand, you know, I'm here for you.
27:00
And, and so now, you know, this kind of brings me to, you know,
27:04
your, your career as a teacher, as an educator.
27:08
You know, when I think about teaching, it's, you know, it's
27:11
very much like the caring profession.
27:14
You know, it's one of, you know, several caring professions.
27:18
But you know, often times I think people kind of relegate
27:21
teaching as just something that you just transmit knowledge,
27:24
right? You here's the content, the
27:26
curriculum, and, you know, they need to learn XYZ to advance to
27:31
next level. And if they don't, then they
27:35
fall behind. And then it just gets really
27:36
ugly really fast, right? Because of like, well, what are
27:39
the structures in place? But, you know, I, I know that
27:43
like from the, you know, Sokogaka International, the, the
27:48
origins of this Buddhist organization are actually very
27:52
much rooted in education and specifically with individuals
27:56
who were educators themselves. And so I wanted to ask if you
28:01
can maybe speak a little bit to that, that origin for our
28:05
listeners, because I think it's, it's really powerful.
28:07
And then also kind of shows this kind of, you know, it's like a,
28:12
it's like a lineage really of, of kind of like from, from that
28:16
same spirit. How can we recreate that in our
28:19
current times and really see transformation?
28:22
Yeah, it's a great question. And I think that's part of at
28:28
least as an adult, what inspired me about Buddhist practice is
28:32
that, you know, at least, you know, in terms of the Shia as a
28:36
movement, it came into being as a need to support young people
28:43
and, you know, from the seeking spirit of educators, Right.
28:47
And so very briefly, you know, without sharing all the history,
28:52
but but you know, there was this educator, Makaguchi, who was
28:57
really disillusioned by the educational system of Japan, you
29:03
know, leading up to what were two and really felt like
29:10
children were just being used as fodder for the state, right, for
29:15
nationalistic means. And their education was not at
29:19
all geared towards their happiness or their development,
29:24
but just using them as like a cog in a machine, right?
29:28
And he wanted to transform education as a whole.
29:32
And he was thinking like a way to do that.
29:34
And and then, you know what, what he really understood
29:40
through that process was that in order for the world to change,
29:43
he had to change. Which I think is a beautiful,
29:47
beautiful statement and very powerful too, because often
29:50
times, you know, it's just our tendency to believe that somehow
29:54
it's the environment that needs to change and not us, right?
29:58
But often times that can be very disempowering, right, because we
30:02
don't have control over what's going on all over the world,
30:05
right? But we certainly have control
30:06
over our, our, ourselves and our own development.
30:09
And then, you know, once he realized, like, it's really
30:12
about my transformation as an educator, right?
30:15
And the transformation, you know, by and large, of all
30:17
educators that will transform education and children's lives.
30:22
He started to seek like philosophy that would allow
30:26
educators to transform. And then he discovered Buddhism
30:31
in that process and realized like, this is actually the
30:34
greatest way for educators, you know, this philosophy that
30:39
essentially teaches that all life has this unbelievable value
30:44
and potential, right? And that, you know, really the
30:48
goal of life is this genuine deep sense of happiness that is
30:53
shared with, you know, everyone around us, right?
30:56
And so inspiring that as like kind of the underpinning of
31:00
education became his goal. And then it was really connected
31:03
to the philosophy of Buddhism. And, you know, Makaguchi, and
31:08
then, you know, his successive disciples, like people who took
31:12
on his his goal, they were not at all about promoting religion
31:16
in schools. It's it wasn't that, but it was
31:19
about, you know, each person developing their own sense of
31:22
conviction in this belief, whether they're Buddhist or not,
31:26
that all children have great value and potential and deserve
31:30
to be happy, right. And so he developed his own
31:32
educational system based on that.
31:35
And, you know, together with Buddhist philosophy and informed
31:39
by that, it's, it's slowly developed into a movement.
31:43
And, you know, he, he had a disciple, Jose Toda, who
31:47
actually became the leader of his Buddhist community, but he's
31:50
also an educator. He started schools informed by
31:53
Macaguchi's philosophy. And then his disciple
31:57
Dicopicator, who's really my mentor in life and in education,
32:01
you know, he created a whole system of schools based on this,
32:04
right? That's spread all over the
32:05
world. You know, you went to one of the
32:07
schools, right? So university, so and it again,
32:12
it holds like soap University, for example, of America, you
32:16
know, people of all different religious backgrounds, cultures,
32:19
ethnicities, whatever nationalities to go there.
32:23
It's not about anything to do with like Buddhist as a
32:26
religion, but but much more about this great philosophy of
32:30
value that each of them have their own sense of mission and
32:34
purpose right as a human being. And so that that is really what
32:38
I'm striving to implement in my own practice as an educator.
32:44
That was a great summary of a lot of history and of these
32:47
three incredible soca progenitors, right, who laid the
32:52
the foundations for not just this education philosophy of
32:57
soca, but also for a framework, an organization, a movement,
33:04
like you said, to really take root not just in Japan, but
33:09
around the world. And I think that, you know,
33:12
while it's still may be small comparatively to other world
33:16
religions, nonetheless, I think that spirit from these, these
33:21
founders, these presidents is really significant and also
33:25
shows that with their, their, their actions, right?
33:29
It just, it's just so congruent with the philosophy and, and
33:32
what they were really trying to put into society.
33:36
And then also that, you know, 1 to 1, like life to life kind of
33:41
interactions. Because I think ultimately it's,
33:45
it's, it's going to be right. This recognition.
33:47
I think you were talking right about this, not of trying to
33:50
change the environment or change that person or that group of
33:53
people, but really through their own efforts.
33:56
And then they can share that and then it becomes so much more
33:59
compelling, right, because it's like this is my actual proof.
34:03
So you know, I'm I appreciate you sharing that.
34:06
And I can't help but also feel like, you know, your own career
34:10
as an educator has very much, you know, been in striving to
34:14
implement humanistic education, right?
34:16
SOCA values in various different, you know, education
34:21
spaces. And I know that, you know, it's
34:23
often the case, right? For individuals who are a little
34:26
further along in their career, they're able to look back after,
34:30
you know, years of, of, of, you know, work experience and say,
34:36
this is it, right? This is kind of like the, the
34:39
thread, but I'm, I'm kind of like wondering like, what was it
34:43
like for you going like starting off as a teacher and then, you
34:48
know, being called to like, you know, start like a special
34:50
education program. And then you went and started,
34:53
you know, working as like a principal and then another level
34:56
up and Superintendent and another level up now as an
35:00
executive. And, and I'm, I'm seeing there's
35:02
this through line in terms of like supporting the student
35:07
where they're at and also really embracing them fully and their
35:12
full potential and giving them the resources that definitely
35:15
you when you were younger would have greatly benefited from and
35:19
probably wanted. And yet, you know, just we're
35:22
deprived of that. So I'm, I'm just curious, like
35:25
in terms of like, as you're reflecting at this moment, in
35:28
this present moment on that journey, could you maybe speak a
35:31
little bit more to what the, the through line was for you?
35:37
And then also maybe also speak to that, that driving force.
35:42
I, I know we talked a lot about silk education and, and these,
35:45
you know, these, these figures, but maybe like something more
35:48
specific to like the, the actual work that you were doing, Like
35:51
what was help helping you to kind of really get, not only get
35:54
through the day, but like transform the day and, and see
35:58
the day differently and feel really good.
36:00
Because I think a lot of educators, they're just trying
36:02
to survive and they're not feeling good at the end of the
36:05
day. So, you know, for you to have
36:06
made it, you know, to where you are now, it you know, you're
36:09
doing something different. So could you maybe speak about
36:12
that? Yeah, yeah, Actually, it reminds
36:16
me, there's this great quote from John Dewey, who, you know,
36:20
he said, like if you're truly living in this realm of
36:25
education in the most like purposeful and meaningful way,
36:31
you actually have more energy at the end of the day than when you
36:34
started. I I will tell you I'm still
36:36
working on that. So no one feel bad if if you
36:39
don't feel that way. But I, you know, I thought about
36:42
what he means. And, you know, my own
36:45
experience, just for example, starting out as a teacher in a a
36:49
school, you know, where most of the kids didn't even live with
36:54
their parents. They were at risk.
36:56
Most of them honestly were minorities and you know, my
37:00
experience and just dialogue with a lot of them is the only
37:04
way they felt that their life could have meaning or value was
37:07
to to like become an athlete, a professional athlete or
37:10
something like that, right? And and they didn't see any
37:14
other possibilities for happiness or development outside
37:20
of those very rare opportunities, right?
37:24
And you know, what I, what I saw through kind of trial and error,
37:28
especially based on how I was treated, you know, by, by this
37:33
boost community, is that the most important thing we can do
37:37
for young people as educators is have this unshakable conviction
37:43
in the value of their life and their potential and this
37:46
unwavering determination that they can become happy, right?
37:52
And they will through realizing their own potential, right?
37:55
And you know, it's amazing, like just practically speaking, and I
38:01
don't mean this about me, but I think sometimes in these
38:04
environments, I was the first person to really value these
38:08
young people's as an, as an individual and really strive to
38:12
help them uncover what they, what they were capable of,
38:15
right. And we would do things like
38:17
teach them chess or teach them how to write poetry.
38:21
And you know, like one guy became a chess master, another
38:24
became a poet laureate, right? And, you know, and they, they
38:28
went out, some of them went on to really great schools and, and
38:30
whatever. But, but underneath all of that,
38:33
what I realized is those the success in the world that we
38:37
want for all kids, you know, and career success or financial
38:41
success or whatever else that is a by product of them really
38:45
developing this great sense of self and value, or at least it
38:51
should be as opposed to it being the goal, you know, because the,
38:57
of course, there's many successful people who don't
38:59
really feel happy or don't feel a sense of value.
39:02
And I think something's missing in that, right.
39:04
And so that really became the foundation of my career.
39:08
I also, you know, as a part of the Buddhist community, I was
39:10
able to travel the country and meet 10s of thousands of young
39:13
people and, you know, encourage them about their own sense of
39:16
mission. And I feel like that's that has
39:20
to be the goal of education as opposed to, you know, the very
39:24
mechanistic and, you know, capitalistic view of like those
39:30
schools, you can get grades, you can get the good college, you
39:32
can go, you know, get a good job and make lots of money, right?
39:35
It's, it's, it's much deeper than that.
39:38
And I think if, if educators feel like that's all I'm doing
39:42
right, then we we tend to lose hope and lose purpose.
39:45
But if we can really see each person in front of us as this
39:50
unbelievably capable person with unbelievable potential, and it's
39:55
like on us to like dig out that potential, like we're digging
39:59
for gold, you know, then it just becomes a different experience.
40:03
And you know, of course, we may not breakthrough with everyone,
40:07
but. But the victories we see and and
40:10
I started to see them more often when I approached education that
40:13
way, become much more meaningful and fuel our own like
40:17
development and sense of joy in our role.
40:20
And I think, you know, at least from my career, the reason why I
40:23
moved from like, teacher to administrator and, you know,
40:26
took on ever increasing roles is because I think what I feel like
40:30
keenly is that we need to awaken more adults to this reality,
40:35
right? And like, more educators to this
40:37
reality as opposed to it being about something just external
40:42
with the educational system or also with children.
40:45
It's much more about us realizing that sense of mission
40:48
and what we're doing beyond just, you know, doing our job.
40:51
And you know, oh, I have to go through this material today in
40:54
the curriculum or I have to, you know, ensure these policies are
40:58
met by the school or whatever that is, right, That that's part
41:01
of kind of the logistics of our jobs.
41:06
Yeah, and I really, oh, wow, yeah, resonated with what you
41:09
were saying about like, just like what's the what are the
41:11
aims, right. The purpose of, of schooling, of
41:15
education, you know, fit large and, and oftentimes right in
41:19
society. It's just this kind of very
41:21
linear pathway of like this has to lead to this has to lead to
41:25
this so that you can get, you know, good job and good job
41:28
means good life. And, and, you know, we're
41:31
starting to see, especially now I think more than ever, this
41:34
disillusionment of like, actually, that's not happening.
41:38
That's not really what's going to lead to fulfillment and
41:42
because you're not going to get the high paying job even with
41:44
the degree. And you might get the job, but
41:47
you might not keep the job. And there's so many intricacies
41:50
to all of that. And what you're speaking to is
41:52
something much deeper, right? Because it's happening at the
41:55
individual level. And it's something about really,
41:59
you know, anchoring yourself and like what truly, you know,
42:04
lights me up and, and also just kind of this acceptance of just,
42:09
this is me, right? You know, take off all the
42:12
titles and status and, you know, you know, all of those like
42:15
fixed superficial fixtures. And, and then like what remains,
42:19
right? This is kind of, I think what
42:20
you're speaking to in terms of like, like the, the deeper sense
42:23
of like that happiness and not losing track of that.
42:28
But then the question is, well, OK, well then how now how do we
42:32
how do we set this up as like an educational environment?
42:36
I know you you talked a lot about, you know, your own, you
42:38
know, childhood, there was such injustice of like not having
42:41
that provided. And so then, you know, the task
42:45
for you was to really transform your life and to become this
42:49
capable teacher and now school leader that that you are.
42:54
So having said that, I know you are very, very busy guy and you
43:00
have a lot of things that, that you're working on just with your
43:04
current job. But I'm also curious to hear
43:08
about some of like the, the longer term goals that you have
43:13
set for yourself. I, I would love to hear a kind
43:16
of like what, what does the future have in store in terms of
43:19
like that educational environment that you would have
43:22
really liked to have had when you were younger?
43:25
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I have huge goals.
43:29
I'm sure like most educators, I want to fundamentally transform
43:32
education. But I think I think a couple of
43:35
things are important and I and I will share some concrete things.
43:39
But I think first and foremost, we all have to decide and have
43:45
conviction in the reality that transforming ourselves as an
43:50
educator and also helping the child in front of us transform
43:54
is the most impactful and important way to change the
43:58
world, right? If, if we look at things from a,
44:02
you know, systemic level or whatever, it just, it all seems
44:06
overwhelming to all of us, right?
44:08
But if, if we think about our own life and how we're showing
44:11
up every day and we think about the, the children and their
44:15
unique circumstances and mission that are, that are in front of
44:18
us right now, then it becomes much more doable, right?
44:21
And if we're all doing that and we're all giving our all in the,
44:25
in those circumstances, we will transform society and education.
44:31
So that's really important. Everything comes back to 1 to 1.
44:34
I think, you know, broadly my goal, you know, my, my mentor di
44:40
soccer Kita had all these unbelievable ideas and visions
44:46
and goals for education as a whole based on this humanistic
44:49
philosophy, right? And so I really want to carry
44:52
that forward. I think this model of soca value
44:57
creating education is such a an important model for the 21st
45:01
century, especially when people sense of value is so tied to
45:06
something external, like you said, like a job, which, you
45:08
know, we're in a society where things are changing so
45:11
dynamically, so rapidly that you know, if your self worth is tied
45:15
to your degree or your job or whatever, that could change in
45:18
an instant, right? Especially now, like maybe, you
45:21
know, 50-6 years ago, you get a job, you have it your whole
45:24
life, right? And you just built this career.
45:25
But that isn't necessarily the case now, right?
45:28
So I think we have to go into seeing the value of a person as
45:33
intrinsic and not attached to whether they get straight A's or
45:37
whether they go to the best school or whether they get, you
45:40
know, the the top tech job or whatever it it has to be
45:43
intrinsic and we have to see how everyone has a sense of mission
45:47
and purpose. And so I think just, you know,
45:52
helping to spread that philosophy is really key for me
45:56
life to life and just do my own behavior.
45:58
I'm really determined to do that.
46:00
And then, you know, I think actually education as a whole
46:04
needs to be separated from like political national interests.
46:08
So, you know, even my mentor proposed like the United Nations
46:11
of Education or even education as like a separate branch of
46:14
government. Like these are huge things, but
46:17
to be honest, like we see it and, and you know, regardless of
46:19
your politics, like I personally don't think politicians are the
46:23
best people to make decisions about education.
46:26
You know, I think it's the community around those children,
46:29
right? The educators, people who have
46:32
been in, you know, administration, parents, even
46:34
children themselves need to have a voice and an education.
46:38
And so giving that voice to them and empowering them is is really
46:42
a part of it. And, you know, I think obviously
46:46
we know that we're in a very antiquate system of education
46:50
that doesn't meet the needs of, you know, a lot of children,
46:53
especially in our diverse kids. You know, my, my most recent
46:57
role where I was overseeing, you know, multiple schools.
46:59
I, I would meet the families, I'd meet the kids.
47:02
One thing I saw that was very common because this was, you
47:05
know, it was a school that really helps kids kind of 1 to
47:07
one. But if they came in, you know,
47:11
in 6th grade, it was a 6th through 12th grade school.
47:13
They came in 6th grade. A lot of times it's academic
47:16
issues, maybe some struggles socially, certain things, right?
47:20
They came in at 10:50 in the grades.
47:22
Sometimes they're suicidal, they're in treatment programs,
47:25
they're on drugs. They're like, they completely
47:28
hate school. They've lost all their love of
47:30
learning. And it's a whole different
47:31
battle to educate them at that point, right?
47:35
And so like, school literally became probably the most
47:38
detrimental thing to their health and well-being, you know,
47:41
And just like thinking about that for a second, right?
47:44
Like school is the reason why for a lot of these kids that
47:48
they feel like they're worthless and they don't even want to go
47:52
on living, right. So that's got to change.
47:54
That's got to change. And so I think this, this
47:58
philosophy and, and philosophies that are informed by the sense
48:01
of value of the individual are really important.
48:04
I'd love to create a model of that in a school.
48:08
I definitely want to create more inclusive environments for
48:10
autistic kids in and out of school.
48:14
I really believe education needs to be seen more holistically.
48:18
So like, you know, a kid up propose this idea of like the
48:22
three realms of education, right, education at home, in the
48:25
community and at school and like really linking those things.
48:28
And then also this this education that starts with the
48:33
individual, but bridges out not only the community, but the
48:36
country and then the world at large, right.
48:39
So being able to see ourselves in the realm of humanity as a
48:43
whole and, and teaching that not just, you know, from, from a
48:47
local or national or international perspective, but
48:51
like all three kind of working together.
48:53
So I think those are things that are really important.
48:57
I really, you know, I'm an artist too.
48:59
I really want to develop like art and education and a more
49:04
holistic way that really, you know, goes back to the true
49:08
sense of art as something that helps people, you know, express
49:12
their deepest emotions and is a really genuine way to connect
49:16
with other human beings. And, you know, even a tool to
49:19
fight injustice as as opposed to like just a commercial product,
49:23
right? I think a lot of things are
49:25
becoming commercialized, including education, right?
49:28
So I think we need to claw some of that back.
49:31
And but, but again, I think it really comes back to, you know,
49:35
us transforming and, you know, really transforming the
49:37
environment we're in right now. There was a lot that you just
49:42
shared. I hope people are taking notes,
49:45
but it's, it's incredible, right, because you're, you're
49:48
sharing these ideas and many of them, right, coming from your
49:52
mentor, Daisaku Ikeda. And, and there's this, I think,
49:56
wonderful sense that, you know, you're really, you know, wanting
50:00
to run with these ideas and, and see them to fruition.
50:04
And, you know, and then maybe it, some of them might still be
50:08
so big that it doesn't happen within your lifetime, right?
50:11
I'm thinking, I don't know, like United Nations of education, but
50:15
like what great work we can do right now to, to really set up
50:21
the next generation and so on and so forth.
50:24
This is the thing that I think a lot of people don't realize or,
50:26
or they realize it when you say it, but they don't think about
50:29
how long term a project education is.
50:33
And that it's not something even that like the scope of like, you
50:36
know, high school, right from like 9th grade to 12th grade.
50:40
That really is like, you know, going to like, you know, inform
50:44
the rest of like all of their life, right?
50:46
There's, there's, we, we segment so many things and we dissect it
50:50
and we try to make sense of it when actually it's much broader.
50:55
And, and I think the, the vision that the Daisaku Ikeda had for,
51:00
for education, for the world is so vast.
51:03
And so definitely seeing someone like yourself tapping into that,
51:07
myself included. And, you know, it's something
51:10
that we're we we're taking action on and, and I'm excited
51:14
to see a many, if not all of these already, you know, in
51:18
motion and seeing kind of how that informs the next, you know,
51:22
educator. You know, I think that the the
51:25
values that you spoke about today in like hope and like
51:29
having that conviction right then this understanding of like
51:32
education, the purpose of it is for the happiness of the child
51:35
and the student. I think these are things that
51:38
just about anyone can get behind, right, regardless of
51:41
whether you actually carry out a Buddhist practice, yes or not.
51:45
So I think, you know, you've shared with such clarity, you
51:49
know, you were so articulate and and conveying a lot of the
51:51
history and also the the philosophy that really
51:55
undergirds this, this movement to transform education by our
52:00
own inner transformation, right, that human revolution.
52:03
So you know, I, I really appreciate you, Jason, for, for
52:07
sharing all of that and sharing your story.
52:09
I wanted to ask one final question and that is book
52:13
recommendation. So do you have any
52:15
recommendations for us as we kind of wrap up this this
52:19
wonderful conversation? Yeah, I mean, especially for
52:22
educators and, you know, people seeking kind of a deeper way of
52:29
practicing their craft as an educator, you know, I really
52:32
encourage everyone to have a mentor and to learn from other
52:37
people, like because the best educational theory in the world
52:40
is just theory, right? But when you really see it
52:43
enacted through the effort of a an individual, I think it comes
52:47
alive in a different way. And so, you know, for me, like
52:50
obviously I've, I've spoken a lot about my mentor, but he has
52:53
this great book. It's called The Light of
52:55
Learning. So it's I think it's in reverse,
52:58
but it's it's an excellent book. It's different essays that he's
53:03
given you. He's into Harvard University and
53:06
teachers colleges in Columbia and UCLA.
53:08
All these places spoke about different aspects of education,
53:12
but also life and cosmic humanism and all the all these
53:16
great, you know, underpinnings of his philosophy of education.
53:19
But, you know, and, and, you know, take and use what is
53:23
useful for you. But I think just for me, like
53:27
what's valuable about what he shares is that he really
53:31
practice what he preached, so to speak.
53:34
And, you know, he was really a person who had this deep sense
53:37
of conviction in the value of every young person he
53:39
encountered. And so I really trust, you know,
53:43
the words he's saying is something like he, he lives.
53:46
And so I think, you know, those people that we encounter,
53:50
there's, there's, you know, many other people I, I have that
53:52
respect for, but those people are the people we can learn
53:55
quite a bit from in life. So I, I really encourage
53:57
everyone to read that book. Like you said, Buddhist or not,
54:00
you'll get a lot out of it, especially as an educator.
54:04
Awesome. Yeah.
54:05
And I can, I can attest that it is an excellent book and very
54:09
much a source of inspiration, I think to really give you that
54:14
new perspective and new kind of like hope that actually, you
54:18
know where you are right now as an educator is like the best
54:22
place to carry out that transformation that you're
54:25
hoping to see. And and this gives you.
54:28
Yeah, just like all the tools and all the the new vocabulary
54:32
and like frameworks that can yeah, lead to just a wonderful
54:37
experience and like the bigger impact.
54:39
So, so thank you so much for that recommendation, Jason.
54:43
And you know, I, I always like to give the last words to to my
54:46
guests any final thoughts or like send offs in reflection on
54:51
this, this wonderful conversation like for you to
54:54
have the the final words. Yeah.
54:56
I, I mean, I would just say like all of us working together
55:01
collectively with this determination to be the change
55:05
that we wish to see in the world, right, As Gandhi said,
55:08
that is, that is the hope of the future and the hope for children
55:12
is US transforming as educators and seeking after our own great
55:17
victory and happiness in life together with them.
55:19
You know, so just being that person every day, being that
55:22
person in your school, your environment, wherever you are
55:26
is, is the biggest difference you can make.
55:27
So, and I'm really grateful to have this dialogue with everyone
55:30
and, and to you, Scott and you know, to be able to work
55:33
together with you on on so many great ideas that we're talking
55:36
about. So.
56:13
Music.