Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #95 Incentivising Outside Play

Transcript

#95 Incentivising Outside Play · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families podcast with Doctor Justinkilson, where
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  Speaker 1: Luke and Susie our husband and wife radio team with
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  Speaker 1: three young boys. This is the podcast for the time
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  Speaker 1: poor parent who just wants some answers now.
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  Speaker 2: Our next guest is a doctor of psychology who writes
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  Speaker 2: for The New York Times and is featured in Sydney's
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  Speaker 2: Daily Telegraph, The Project, The Today Show, and of course
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  Speaker 2: the Look At Susie Radio show. A closet middle aged
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  Speaker 2: man in lycra and our family and parenting expert from
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  Speaker 2: Happy Families dot com dot Are you please welcome father
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  Speaker 2: of six daughters, Dr Justin Kilson.
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  Speaker 3: I always, I always get scared when I look over
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  Speaker 3: at Dr Justin Wilson is one of these segments about
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  Speaker 3: to start, and he's got the smuggest look on his
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  Speaker 3: face because I know that there is jokes on.
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  Speaker 4: The hashtag dad.
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  Speaker 5: Joke I spotted in our Bino Dalmatian the other day.
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  Speaker 5: There's the least I could have done for him, I spotted.
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  Speaker 1: I started getting that joke halfway through.
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  Speaker 2: It spot I took about four seconds afterwards. But you
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  Speaker 2: know how we we got there.
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  Speaker 5: It's terrible, isn't it now?
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  Speaker 2: I mentioned about how great it is to be able
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  Speaker 2: to imment doctor Justin Coilson's strategies because it was a
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  Speaker 2: while ago he talked about family meetings. We've recently introduced
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  Speaker 2: family meetings into our house, doctor Justin, and it has
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  Speaker 2: changed everything.
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  Speaker 1: Changed out, yeah, everything, it's been brilliant.
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  Speaker 2: It's often it's fifteen minutes a day. We've got it
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  Speaker 2: set us as a set time every single day. But
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  Speaker 2: you know what it's done is changed behavior at night.
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  Speaker 2: It's changed behavior in the afternoon. It's changed everything because.
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  Speaker 5: What are you doing?
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  Speaker 2: Because we just sit there and we just go, here's
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  Speaker 2: some of the things that maybe you know a kind
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  Speaker 2: of going well for us. Here's some things that maybe
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  Speaker 2: we need to sort of adjust. So we just before
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  Speaker 2: anything gets out of control with whether they're helping, whether their.
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  Speaker 4: Rooms are good.
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  Speaker 2: Occasionally we've gone okay, so we know that our rooms
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  Speaker 2: are messy. So at the end of our family meeting,
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  Speaker 2: we're going one song clean up of our bedroom.
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  Speaker 1: Do you know the big thing? One of our sons
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  Speaker 1: came to us in the family meeting and he said,
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  Speaker 1: when are we going to have our birthday party? And
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  Speaker 1: we'd forgotten about the birthday.
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  Speaker 4: Party because chance to raise issues.
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  Speaker 1: Birthdays are in May, but we moved in May, and
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  Speaker 1: so we said we'll do a late one. But he
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  Speaker 1: remembered now week after Christmas, that's outside of family meetings.
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  Speaker 1: We would have kept putting that conversation off and never
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  Speaker 1: done anything. But within that context we were ordered to go, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: well let's have a look at it, and we've created
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  Speaker 1: an eight and a half birthday.
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  Speaker 2: Hilarious thing about it, justin is because when they said
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  Speaker 2: our birthday party, and Susy goes, oh, you're right, maybe
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  Speaker 2: we could do something combined with Christmas, and the look
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  Speaker 2: on one of the eight year old's face was no, no,
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  Speaker 2: not fair, And I said, okay, so maybe we're having
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  Speaker 2: them separate.
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  Speaker 1: They want presents.
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  Speaker 5: What I love though about the whole family meeting thing
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  Speaker 5: is it doesn't have to be a big deal. You
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  Speaker 5: sit down and have a ten minute chat, you talk
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  Speaker 5: about the good stuff. You know, it's not we're going
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  Speaker 5: to discipon you, and it's just a conversation.
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  Speaker 1: It's great, it's really good. We're all informed, all on
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  Speaker 1: the same page.
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  Speaker 2: It's working so and it's just revolutionized the cleaning and
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  Speaker 2: the organization of the house because if anything starts to
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  Speaker 2: not quite be right. We just have a casual chat
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  Speaker 2: in the morning. It never explodes.
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  Speaker 3: Brilliant.
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  Speaker 1: So good. Now we've got to get to our question
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  Speaker 1: of the day, do it. I love that recently we've
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  Speaker 1: had quite a few questions come through from Dad's and
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  Speaker 1: this is another one. Michael sent it through. What limits
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  Speaker 1: or techniques have parents put in place to incentivize kids
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  Speaker 1: to limit their screen time?
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  Speaker 5: They put them all in place, and none of them worked.
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  Speaker 1: Getting outside exercises, any good behavior we want to see
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  Speaker 1: in our children, how do we incentivize it?
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  Speaker 5: Okay, well, well, incentives only work in the short term.
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  Speaker 5: I was going to say they don't work, but they do.
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  Speaker 5: If you if you dangle a big enough carrot, somebody
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  Speaker 5: is going to take a bite. They're going to go
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  Speaker 5: for it. Incentives do work, but they really are a
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  Speaker 5: short term fixed They're not the kind of thing that
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  Speaker 5: changes the way a person sees the world. And this
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  Speaker 5: kind of makes sense. Right If I said to my children,
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  Speaker 5: I'll give you five bucks to tidy up your room,
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  Speaker 5: it works for that. It works for that time, and
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  Speaker 5: usually when you don't if they want five dollars.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, the worst thing is they go no, thank you, Yeah, no,
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  Speaker 4: I need more.
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  Speaker 5: And sometimes you go and check the room and you
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  Speaker 5: think to yourself, oh, my goodness, they did not do
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  Speaker 5: this all. They've stuffed the clothing under the bed and
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  Speaker 5: they've just made an.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely Sometimes sometimes yeah yeah.
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  Speaker 5: So incentives tend to lead to people taking shortcuts. It
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  Speaker 5: doesn't drive any of the desira desirable behavior over the
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  Speaker 5: long term. There are better things to do, and I
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  Speaker 5: think the best thing for us to do is to
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  Speaker 5: tap into what to University of Rochester researchers at DC
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  Speaker 5: and rich Ryan have talked about for about thirty years now.
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  Speaker 5: They've identified these three basic psychological needs. They say, if
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  Speaker 5: you meet these three basic psychological needs, you can help
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  Speaker 5: people to have an intrinsic desire to do things rather
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  Speaker 5: than you know, parents being the police and saying you
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  Speaker 5: need to get outside and jump on the trampoline for
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  Speaker 5: fifteen minutes, because the kids will watch the clock while
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  Speaker 5: they're doing it. And so these basic psychological needs. First
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  Speaker 5: of all, you want to make it relational. Secondly, you
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  Speaker 5: want to make it competence building. And third you want
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  Speaker 5: to make it something that they feel like they have
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  Speaker 5: a sense of choice and volition for This is actually
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  Speaker 5: why screens are so enticing, by the way, because on
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  Speaker 5: their screens, they're with their friends. On their screens, they're
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  Speaker 5: developing competence and mastery, whether they're social media ring or
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  Speaker 5: whether they're gaming, and they feel like they can do
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  Speaker 5: whatever they want. They've got this incredible freedom, autonomy, and volition.
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  Speaker 5: Our goal, therefore, is to find things that are off
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  Speaker 5: screens that help them to feel connected to others, that
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  Speaker 5: help them feel like they're improving and getting better at things,
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  Speaker 5: and that help them to have a sense that I'm
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  Speaker 5: freely choosing this because it brings me joys, it's purposeful,
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  Speaker 5: it's meaningful, it's helping me to develop as a person.
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  Speaker 1: This has just made sense about child eldest son's recent
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  Speaker 1: cubing addiction. Like Rubik's cubing, it's it's building competence. He's
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  Speaker 1: got friends who do the same thing he's competing, so
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  Speaker 1: he's got measures to see that he's improving with it,
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  Speaker 1: and he's got so much freedom with it as well.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not just the son that's becoming obsessed with it.
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  Speaker 5: On your face, it makes so much as he puts
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  Speaker 5: the cube down.
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  Speaker 4: There, thinking, gosh, I don't have my cube close.
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  Speaker 1: To me, so can I ask? Then, in all of
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  Speaker 1: these things, whether it's exercise or screen time, how much
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  Speaker 1: does parental example play a part?
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  Speaker 5: Well, it certainly is important. If children see us consistently
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  Speaker 5: in front of screens, they're going to think that that's
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  Speaker 5: the norm. You know. The culture, as we talked about
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  Speaker 5: in a recent conversation, culture is the collective behavior of
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  Speaker 5: the group. So if the group is sitting in front
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  Speaker 5: of screens all day and all night, then that's what
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  Speaker 5: those who are entering the group or growing into the
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  Speaker 5: group will think is normal. It's critical that and it's
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  Speaker 5: quite a bit of research that shows that parents who,
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  Speaker 5: for example, exercise, have children who are more likely to exercise,
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  Speaker 5: or parents who do this you know, the children. If monkey,
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  Speaker 5: see monkey, do, that's what.
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  Speaker 4: The kids do.
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  Speaker 1: If you serve, they're likely to serve.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's right. And part of that is because
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  Speaker 5: we try to give our children the same positive experiences
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  Speaker 5: that we've enjoyed ourselves. But part of it dolls is
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  Speaker 5: and part of its resource oriented, but partly it's just
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  Speaker 5: the kids see that that's what you do, and so
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  Speaker 5: that's what you do.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a valuable thing. For us to wrap our
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  Speaker 2: head around, because it feels like it's one of those
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  Speaker 2: things that no matter how close to getting it we
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  Speaker 2: think we are, that then the next day comes around
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  Speaker 2: and we realize we're a long long way off. I
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  Speaker 2: would imagine this is a dynamic challenge that what works
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  Speaker 2: one week may not necessarily but if we're constantly focused.
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  Speaker 2: And this is why the principles rather than the individual strategies.
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  Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly. There's a couple of other things that you
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  Speaker 5: can do as well. In addition to helping your children
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  Speaker 5: to be engaged in activities that are going to build relationships,
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  Speaker 5: help them to feel like they're developing and doing something
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  Speaker 5: purposeful in their lives, we can do a couple of
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  Speaker 5: other things to make it less convenient to use those devices. So,
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  Speaker 5: for example, in our home, we've put the television in
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  Speaker 5: the room furthest from everyone and everything. It's a pain
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  Speaker 5: to go to the media room. It's literally it's the
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  Speaker 5: rumpest room right out of the back, and nobody actually
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  Speaker 5: wants to be there because you've got to go downstairs,
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  Speaker 5: and you've got to go down the dark corridor, and
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  Speaker 5: then you know you're kind of away from everyone and everything.
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  Speaker 5: Nobody will hear you scream in the ropers room, and
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  Speaker 5: so that's the only television that we have in the house.
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  Speaker 5: We don't have screens unless they're being used in public areas.
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  Speaker 5: The kids don't take their screens into their rooms. We
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  Speaker 5: have a whole list of different things that make access
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  Speaker 5: to those devices a little bit more friction full rather
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  Speaker 5: than friction free. You've got to work hard. We don't
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  Speaker 5: make it easy, which means that the children find other
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  Speaker 5: things to do because other things are easier. We move
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  Speaker 5: the trampoline so that the children can literally jump off
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  Speaker 5: our back deck and be on the trampoline, and we've
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  Speaker 5: been able to do it in a way that's completely
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  Speaker 5: safe for them, so they're not sort of jumping six
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  Speaker 5: feet or anything like that. And so the trampoline has
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  Speaker 5: actually become the go to place because it's literally three
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  Speaker 5: steps from the back deck and they're on the tramp
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  Speaker 5: It's about creating an environment that invites and pulls our
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  Speaker 5: children towards activities other than screens.
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  Speaker 4: So good as we wrap up.
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  Speaker 2: Just on aside, one of the things that we had
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  Speaker 2: done in the past before we spent as much time
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  Speaker 2: with you is to use the lack of access to
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  Speaker 2: the screens as a punishment in a sense, right to say, well,
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  Speaker 2: then your band from YouTube for the day.
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  Speaker 5: Makes them want it more.
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  Speaker 2: But our kids are incredible, and this is not good management.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think this is just pure good luck and
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  Speaker 2: who they are that they honored the band and didn't
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  Speaker 2: try and sneak their way around it, and and so
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  Speaker 2: like they would come back the next day and go, is.
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  Speaker 4: Am I allowed to use it? Now? Am I allowed
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  Speaker 4: to get back on?
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  Speaker 2: And we'd give them permission so they would just they
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  Speaker 2: would honor this almost every time. The problem was one
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  Speaker 2: time and I was a little bit stressed, and I
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  Speaker 2: knew I had to. I knew I was going to
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  Speaker 2: ban them from YouTube and from using any device. All
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  Speaker 2: devices gone. I didn't And they said how long for?
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  Speaker 2: And I said until further notice? Oh, I forgot about it.
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  Speaker 2: And it was about a week later one of my
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  Speaker 2: sons came and said, can I use devices yet?
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  Speaker 4: He's not been using it for a week and I've
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  Speaker 4: even forgotten about it. And he just didn't use them
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  Speaker 4: for a week. And it came like it's now a
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  Speaker 4: leaftime went okay, now.
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  Speaker 2: I know that you wouldn't approve its story.
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  Speaker 1: Justin Kilson, thanks so much for your time. To find
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  Speaker 1: out more info on all of Justin's books, podcasts, and programs,
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  Speaker 1: you can go online to Happy Families dot com dot au.
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  Speaker 1: And to find out how to have Justin come and
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: speak at your school, organization or event, go to Justin
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  Speaker 1: Coulson dot com