Latest / Monero Talk / Part II of The Future of Zano & the Cryptonote Protocol w/ Andrey Sabelnikov | EPI 307
Transcript
- Doug Monero has been very steadfast in its approach with dealing with regulators, its stance being we're building digital cash and we are not here to bend the knee to any state or any regulator if exchanges want to delist us. Doug So be it, we aren't going to change the protocol in any way to help them comply. curious how Zano intends on dealing with these issues. What's your perspective on that? Zoidberg I think it doesn't even matter what our actions would be because thanks to the idea of open source, the technology itself will survive anyway. And even if they find the way how to get to some particular people anyway, I think that's the power of crypto, that true decentralized crypto is that we are building not the tools, we're building technology, or building, inventing stuff that is basically as ideas, We are creating ideas and yeah, we're building we maintain tools. Zoidberg We do the tools, but Yeah, that's that will be the thoughts that I mean the ideas are way more permanent than than tools so Zoidberg but he's not involved in crypto as a part of any project. Just maybe there is the news sometimes, that's it. Doug Wow, amazing. But does he say anything about Monero? I mean, because it's the most successful version of crypto note, it working as intended. Is he like, does you see it as realizing what his vision was when he wrote the crypto -note protocol? Doug I'd be obviously, you can't completely get into his head, But I'm just curious like is it like something that gets discussed or talked about or I mean I would think you'd be very happy to see that crypto notice is flourishing in the form of Monero Zoidberg Again I never asked him this I Believed of course, I believe us as a creator of this technology I think it's just my my idea my feeling that of cause he is glad that it is not it it a life it That's improving, I think. Zoidberg He maybe, he probably has some bitter taste from the beginning, which was a lot of toxic stuff. And probably for that reason, but I don't know. in a form of Monero, of course. Doug Yeah, it's his creation after all, right? Like he was, you know, very much a part of its genesis. Zoidberg Yeah. I will try to bring him on Monero Tote, but I asked him, but he, yeah, she always kind of skeptical about this. I don't know why. Doug Okay. All right. Yeah so we talked about proof of stake. The other major addition was confidential assets. You talked about that a little bit, but give us a bit more insight into that. What is the most powerful thing we can do with confidential asset? Doug What do you envision it being used for, use cases? Zoidberg In Zada, you can only transact with this so far. Also, So you can do something that we call the onyx whoops, but basically you cannot safely exchange one asset to another asset. And I'm not good in pitching things. Zoidberg Okay. I will do it better. I'll do better, yeah. But as I said, let me ask. Okay, good. Finish the thought. Yes, I say before I think the most job that we'll be doing in the next year, and maybe two years, is building a system around this platform. Zoidberg Because having assets itself, it's kind of cool, but not much things you can do with this. And if we can bring liquidity from other projects, if you can create a safe, secure opportunity to link other assets into Zano or into Firo or any other projects. Zoidberg That's going to be really useful and that's the idea of confidential layer. That the project is going be breach those assets, but without having weakness point of custody. It's gonna be Shamir Sharid's secret between the group of people. Zoidberg So, it won't exist the private key itself, so it's kind of safe way to breach things between the projects. That's what we think will be making this assets useful. If you can link some useful tokens, for example, from a data war from any AVM network, and in a secure way, you bring it into Zano as a platform, that's going to be a really useful thing. Zoidberg And that's what we're going to be working on for the next year, I think. Doug Just so that would be like a wrapped Monero type thing? Is that... Zoidberg Yeah, kind of things that the Bridget can wrap, sink into Zano or into Firo or any project that support assets. But the thing is, it's not going be controlled by one entity. It's going to be controlled by a group of, I don't know how to say it, it's going be like a, a participants here is like 100 nodes or I donno how much it is going to be, but it going to be group that will be signing the signing transactions for a wrap or on wrap. Zoidberg So it is going to be hard to steal something from the bridge. Doug It would function like a decentralized exchange, kind of, in that regard. Zoidberg Decentralized bridge, I would say, not exchange. Probably it's going to be at some point exchange but it is going be a bridge. And it was a project. It was REN BTC project, I think, that FTX was bought some time ago and then they ripped everything from this project but But the idea, technical idea is very similar that was implemented in this project, we'll use Shamir's secret for this. Zoidberg In a simple word, it's going to be some sort of a big multi -sig. We can speak about this as a multi secret. Doug Okay, um, I know one of the projects that I'm excited about when I hear confidential Confidential assets on top is that always like a Stable privacy coin, right? Yeah. Yeah to that Well, what would that potentially look like? Doug What would be our what's the what the pathway towards a a stable privacy Coin on Zano Zoidberg Well, I actually don't know because this kind of, if you ask me from financial perspective how it would be, I have no idea. Honestly, I don't have any opinion about this because it's not my, not Doug my field. Yeah, like on a technological, you know, would it use that? From technological perspective. Zoidberg I would say or something, or... It's going to be... it's going to be talking that a packet to some price for example one dollar theoretically it could be USDT or USDC bridged into Zano the most obvious thing but it creates another witness point because if it is going to bridge it with a contract they can they kind of block it blacklist the address so it probably going be something more complicated it going be something, probably it's going to be another token that will be linked one -to -one to Stablecoin from Ontario, I don't know probably or some other way. Zoidberg We have a few companies that contacted us recently. Pavel just said today in the morning, the office when we were doing Koshia, he said that But there's a company that interested in building stable coin. Zoidberg So honestly, I don't know how it's going to be. Doug Okay. Well, it is exciting because nobody's really cracked that nut yet, right? I mean, we saw people attempting to do algorithmic privacy stable coins. That didn't work out, hasn't worked out to date. Doug So nobody has really solved that problem yet. Zoidberg Yeah, it's actually going to be the most useful thing, I think. For transaction, of course, that's the practical thing. That's how people use crypto these days, actually. They use a couple of tokens for the staple coins. Zoidberg The rest is used for high gambling, and for, yeah, Doug law. Conceivably be eventually pretty easy then to swap between these two, right? using whatever this new privacy stable coin is on Zano to go between that and Monero, right? Things like that. All that will become easy to do in this ecosystem. Zoidberg Yeah, that's the idea. That's what we want to build. Let's see how it goes. Doug One of the things you mentioned, this is why I like talking to you, Matt. You're very honest and genuine in your responses, you don't fluff things up. You're not a salesman. You are definitely. No, no, I think that's why the Monero community listens when you speak as well. Doug One of the things you mentioned was the decoy selection algorithm that you guys made some improvements to that. Is that related to improvements that Monero was making or it was like your own spin on it? Zoidberg Yeah, of course, we watched it, what Monero was doing. We actually was quite late with DCOS -Election Gate. For a long time we used not the optimal one, and that's me to be blamed for this. Yeah. Of course we saw Manara has a lot of iterations of improving this, you can even see it in the codebase. Zoidberg There is a lot of different kind of magic numbers and research, like a lot statistical work was made on this and I'm not that good in statistical stuff. So we decided to go a little bit different way. Zoidberg I am not trying to say that we are better or not better. I don't know, it's different projects and we have different patterns of spending coins. We have like different stuff, so we need a different approach and try to collect data as much as we could do. Zoidberg Some data we collected from, we asked for a few services to give us the anonymized data from the wallet that has a long and a big history. We took some of our wallets so that we had a like a longer history, we also did on -chain research because some of the outputs was again minimized a little bit. Zoidberg So we used this data and we created a model that represented a typical pattern of spending in XANA. And probably this will be changing with the time For example, if we will, for example tomorrow, we'll have another few services that run on ZANO Network and they have a different pattern. Zoidberg They make impact on the typical distribution of the coins that wallet use, and it's going to be easier to adjust this distribution. So we made the distribution like a table, like the table that represents the curve, curve that shows the pattern of the typical coin selection from the wallet in real life. Zoidberg So the coin -selection algorithm uses this pattern to imitate it, to be as close as possible. And of course we will probably have a few iterations of improving this, we'll try to see how it fits or doesn't fit, we'll probably hire some sort of party to make analysis and improve it. Zoidberg But yeah, that's our approach. We'll do data -driven analysis, and do data driven configuration. Doug Very cool. And like we said, obviously, ultimate goal is zero -knowledge proofs, then we just advocate. Zoidberg Yes, yes. Doug Then we throw it away. Do we know if Nicholas Van Zaberhagen has any thoughts on Zero -knowledge proofs coming to to crypto note With obviously that's another one, you know, I'd love to know what he would obviously I would think he'd be for a full membership Zoidberg proof or for for what full full -membership proofs, Doug right? Yeah, yeah, crypto a note evolving into deprecating ring signatures and Using full members of proofs. I mean that that is a big change. So I'm curious what his thoughts would be on that Zoidberg Look, III think I am not in a position to speak from him But I can ask him if he is willing to give a comment about this. But the reason he's not commenting stuff and not willing to participate, it's like he doesn't like you guys. Zoidberg Definitely it is not this, he just a shy person. If he does not think that it matters what he says, I don't know. He just like to be in a what not to build the spot. Yeah. Doug And I would think just first, you know, for security, privacy, security. Right. I mean, he's obviously a cypherpunk. I think he'd want to, you know maintain his privacy if he could. Zoidberg Yeah, I can. I can try to ask him, but cannot promise anything. Doug Yeah no worries. No worries Actually, I wouldn't want to be the guy responsible for outing Nicolas Fazze, in no way would I want be responsible that, just very curious what his comments and thoughts are. Doug Yeah, Zoidberg and I am also curious, what he would say, but you have to understand that because I know him and that I really understand how much appreciation he deserves, that probably probably the most person that I want the most that he will be somewhere in the public. Zoidberg And I can sit here, here's the guy who invented stuff. And yeah, but yeah. Nothing I could do. I had nothing I couldn't do about this. Doug Yeah. Yeah, no worries. No worries, but he's more than welcome to Monero topia. Definitely. I'll definitely get a VIP ticket. No, we're nowhere. He's okay. Oh, I'm just kidding. Yeah, no, he would be amazing to have. Doug Monero, we're seeing attacks on Monero, right? I mean, governments around the world are calling out the use of these technologies. Some places have banned the uses of them. Other places, they're just talking about how they want to handle these technology. Doug Monero has been very steadfast in its approach with dealing with regulators, you know, its stance being we're building digital cash and we are not here to bend the knee to any state or any regulator if exchanges want to delist us. Doug So be it, we aren't going to change the protocol in any way to help them comply. curious how Zano intends on dealing with these issues. What's your perspective on that? Zoidberg Well, so far we are way more under radar. Not much people knows about us. I don't see any regulators in the world even shared about done a project so far. Well, I wish I would say, yeah, I think I will say that yeah we would be stand our ground and we will be like till the end with ideas of privacy, but you never know what's gonna happen. Zoidberg You never now how or what government will make to you personally or physically. So I think it doesn't even matter what our actions would be because thanks to the idea of open source, the technology itself will survive anyway. Zoidberg Even if they find the way how to get to some particular people anyway, I say that's the of crypto, that true decentralized crypto is that we are building not the tools, we're building technology, or building, inventing stuff that is basically as ideas, we creating ideas. Zoidberg And yeah, we building or maintain tools. We do the tools but yeah that will be the tools that, I mean, the ideas are way more permanent than tools so doesn't even matter are what I think or what I believe I would do in case of some troubles, or I don't know, whatever Zano face in the future. Zoidberg I have no idea about it. Doug Yeah. I guess as a whole, what direction you see it going in. I mean, what is the understanding among the those who make these decisions in the project and the community itself of what the direction the product would go. Doug Let's say, for example, getting the listed from exchanges, potentially would, you know, with the projects, perhaps, Zoidberg no, no way. We don't, we don t have much expectations from exchanges. That's why for that reason, building bridging technology. And for now we have exchanges that are not hesitate to list us. and that's good. Zoidberg we can help to maintain the financial health for the project, but we do have much illusions about exchanges for Zano. For that reason, confidential layer is a part of the bigger picture. We want to build the whole system that will resist such things in a better way. Zoidberg I believe Zanna will face the same problems in the future as Monero has right now, especially the listings will be quite, you can make sure about this. Yeah, I think it's going to happen at some point. Zoidberg That's not what we fear. I don't perceive this as a real troubles as the listing from some exchange. No, no. I didn't mean this when I was speaking about real struggles. Doug Yeah, yeah, no, but I wanted to make that clear to everybody right because I mean that that's that different than for example like zcash where the Community over there the culture over. There seems to be more amenable to dealing with regulators As opposed to what you're saying what I agree with and what the Monero community agrees with building tech that you know access as private crypto, and the regulators can figure out how to deal with it on their own, but not allowing their opinions and their power to affect or influence the culture of the project. Doug Well, like you said, whether or not they have the power do things, that's enough. Zoidberg Yeah, from that perspective, yeah, well, I think it's even interesting. I thought about more like things like if they're going to put us in a jail or something like that. In that case, you don't know what you're gonna do. Zoidberg Yeah, probably I'm gonna quit the projects and say, do whatever we want. I don' want to be in prison for the end of my days. But if you speak about such things, it's a kind of challenge. It's even more interesting, especially we have a background. Zoidberg Sorry, I'll make this, that's good. Especially, we have a background and acknowledge how to build things and how to accept this challenge, how to overcome these problems. At least we believe we can do it. Zoidberg Yeah, that's even interesting because probably other projects are going to be facing same issues and if we will be the one who will overcome this, that is going be great. that's another another opportunity for the projects for our community yeah Doug just just thinking other other thoughts of the questions that I don't know if I've ever asked you in the past or I I Don't Know with regards it that does Zano have dynamic blocks it does right I mean it has that aspect of of Monero as well dynamic what is it what you I guess it doesn't dynamic you mean the side of Zoidberg block. Yeah, yeah, it's the same. It's the Doug same and then it has the tail emission. Zoidberg Yeah. We have also tail emission and, Doug Oh, I guess that's another thing to talk about, right? Because with these changes you're doing, I think there's, I've heard this concept of burning coins or burning transaction fees being implemented. Doug In Zano? Yeah, in Zano, I'm thinking of that now as we're talking about television and so that leads to kind of coin supply conversation. But get it to that a little bit. What's this? Zoidberg I just, from technology perspective, from consensus perspective it doesn't have any practical values for me as engineer to secure the, even if it doesn't make it even better, but this was a kind of financial motivation to create the project, to make project deflation. Zoidberg That's why we did this. We also tweaked a little bit consensus to motivate people, include the transactions in the block even though the fee is burned. Anyway, we need the miners to include transactions. Zoidberg So we tweaked little bit consensus to prefer the blocks with transactions. But yeah, we decided to burn it to create a financial incentive. Doug So explain that a little bit more. What exactly is being for people who are just hearing this the first time? Zoidberg Traditionally, like historically, that was how Bitcoin was created originally that the block has a block reward that's a motivational part that pay out to miners for securing the blockchain history, and also every transaction include the fee that is paid to network for including this transaction into the blockchain. Zoidberg And originally in Bitcoin, for many, many most of the projects, this fee was included in the block reward and was given to miters. And the original idea was that when the Bitcoin block reward will be lower, lower with years, and when it comes to real low values, the transaction flow would be enough to cover too many weight miners and maintain the miners to have enough high hash rate to secure the network. Zoidberg But it's already, it even like a few years ago, been obvious that this probably not going to work for Bitcoin and not gonna work most of other projects. So that was a good idea to use a tail emission to secure, at least secure the consensus. Zoidberg instance, if you don't have expected transaction flow in your network. And then also was idea to burn, I think it was first it's was in Ontario, they burn fees and it turned out it is kind of a good motivation for people they perceive the project as a Because you have it constantly inflate of the coins in the project, so people like to feel about deflation is going to be caused more and more. Zoidberg I think it triggers some basic instincts about feeling about profits. Doug It makes it arguably more scarce. Do you foresee that potentially working in a project like Monero? Zoidberg Honestly, I don't have much opinion about this. As I say, I think it's created for motivation people, but for me, it doesn't make much difference. I don't think, I would say it's not really important for me as for engineer who is thinking about technical challenges. Zoidberg It's more about marketing. It is more marketing, it is about community. For example, if the minority community is up for this, they think that's going to be better for economics of the project. I do not know how to say. Zoidberg It isn't economics, its economics. If they believe it's better, you can do it. If it doesn't matter from a technical perspective, it won't weaken consensus or won to make it any stronger, I think. Doug It's interesting. It definitely gets people's attention. It is a quick, easy way to be like, oh, actually, the coin supply will arguably go down over time. Zoidberg Yeah, because whenever you burn this coins, you actually contribute this coin back into kind of back between all the holders of the coins because the coin is like the left smaller and the value is shared between the all left. Zoidberg So it's kind a redistribution of value of project between of all holders, of coins. It's not to just this particular miners who was likely to build this particular block, but to everyone who is part of this network from quite its perspective. Doug How about the 20 minute lock time? What, how does Zano handle that? So, you know, in Monero, this is infamously an issue when you're, when you first start using Monaro for the first time, if you receive a transaction, you can't then turn around and spend it, right? Doug It's locked. Zoidberg Yes. Hello, proof of stake, guys. So the reason why you have this long time for every project is because you have to make sure that it's not going to be overcome by other sub -chain, right, and this is kind of a good value between cost of attack and amount of waiting, it's practical thing. Zoidberg And for projects like Ethereum, they have a very small confirmation time because they have very specific consensus, kind of a little bit centralized, but they have finality. So they can quickly, between a few hundreds of, I don't know how much their validators make communication and make sure, okay, this is final, this has confirmed. Zoidberg The time of waiting is directly connected to how strong is your consensus. If you know that after just five confirmations, it will be very expensive to rewrite transaction history, you can make it five minutes. Zoidberg That's one of the reasons we constantly work on improving our consensus on XANA because Because I believe in the next hard fork, we can even reduce it for five minutes or something like that, because it's going to be really, really hard to rewrite transaction history even with a file confirmation. Zoidberg Again, if I'm not mistaken with my ideas of this problem, but let's illustrate the idea why consensus is important because you can be confident about how long you should take should be waiting and how confident you are if your transaction will be double -spended in the other sub -chain. Zoidberg So, yes, that's another subject for the panel. Doug When you bring that up in a panel, yeah, I will bring it probably. In the plus column, from what you're saying, the proof of stake gives you the ability to to not have to lock the coins for as long as they can. Zoidberg Yeah, you can consider it, confirm it with less blocks coming because it's all about cost of double spender stock. Doug So what is the current state of that in ZANO though? How many blocks do you have to wait for in zano? Zoidberg We do 10 minutes actually, we do blocks by default. But at this moment, as I said, I'm not satisfied with how consensus is secured. I see the role for improvement. And I always want to improve it. It's probably a professional information, but yeah, right now we can improve and we reduce it to five minutes or something like that. Doug Very cool, very cool. We're dropping some good knowledge, get things out there today in this talk, man. Zoidberg It's not that even five or 10 minutes make much difference for me from time perspective. I don't think, for some people, probably practical thing, but for a means, most important that we, even if we leave it with 10 minute, but, to me, it's most importantly that to attack it, you will need like a few hundred thousand or million dollars investment to double spend it. Zoidberg So for me, this is more important than the actual time for confirmation. I think you can wait 10 minutes. It's fine. Even or 20 minutes, it's also fine, you could wait it Doug Awesome, man. What would you say, I've asked you this in the past, but maybe you have a different answer now or I don't know what would you say you're how zano difference differs from tari I dunno I think in the past I thought you said maybe you weren't too familiar with tahri itself I am not familiar yet sorry still not familiar no worries no worse because I just I just know there you know they're kind of aiming to be the aetherium of you know the private version of a theorem as well so I'm just curious what the differences are I know obviously they use like mimble -wimble and they're you know there's gonna be some obviously technological differences there but just Zoidberg curious yeah I don't know you see I I noted I hear that they are merges mine in with Monero right so they work yes they were proof of work this is said yeah that's the only I think but from from other perspective I I don't really know what they do. Zoidberg I know that they had a probably I was reading something. They had bunch of good researchers. That's the only thing I knew. Doug They haven't launched yet. So you guys certainly haven' beat on that front. I mean, you're up and running when Zano's been around for a while now. When did ZANO launch? Zoidberg I think it's five years ago, 2019, right before the COVID. Doug It was a fork, it was fork -a -bullberry, I know it is. It wasn't forka bullberry. Zoidberg Yeah, yes, continuous of bullberries, kind of, yeah. Doug Yeah. We don't need to get into all that right now, though. I think if anybody's interested, we talked about that in our first interview, kind of the whole history of crypto. It's fascinating stuff. Andre was the first guy to develop an implementation of the CryptoNote protocol. Doug That's fair to say? Is that fair? Is it a fair... Zoidberg I was a lead developer at the team. There was team that was working on this. I wrote most of the code, most of code base, but there was a few other people who did a great contribution, including Nicholas and few other guys that I was just... Doug And then you went off and you started bullberry, which eventually became... Zoidberg Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, but I had so little knowledge about how to run an open source project, what is open -source community, and I probably did all the possible mistakes that it was possible to make. But at that time, I also wasn't involved in the tribal wars with the Monero. Zoidberg Also, yeah, Woolbury is a project that didn't work well for me. Doug But from it evolved Zano, right? Yeah, yeah, Zoidberg it was kind of start of things. Doug Yeah. Very cool, man. So cool that you're one of the founding fathers. Any other aspects of ZANO you want to discuss, put out there before we wrap it up? I know we've pretty much covered a lot, a lotta the things I think I have on my list. Doug The only thing is like ionic swaps, the marketplace API, that's really cool. That's very exciting. My understanding is somebody's building a Zano marketplace, right? Zoidberg Yes, someone is building marketplace. I think, as I'm not good in pitching things, I think we will be making explanation video with more details, examples and explanation how it works. because we know that people still don't understand what we have built, so we'll be working on introduction people into this. Zoidberg If someone interested, stay in touch, follow on Twitter, Doug and we will be making a notice about this." But the Marketplace API, I guess, is just a way to interact with the Zano platform and to create escrow contracts, essentially? Zoidberg Yeah, we kind of, with our panel, put on hold escrows contracts because we didn't have enough resources to bring this all together. So that's going to be re -enabled also with Next Hard Fork. So yeah, it's kind of on hold right now, but that's going to be on with the next hard fork, I think, in a few months. Doug Okay, okay. Zoidberg Thank you for mentioning this. Doug Yeah, no worries. And the last topic that I had was the ionic swaps, because if you could just explain that, you know, briefly explain. Zoidberg It's actually very simple. We even saw the guy on the Manerikon in Prague who was making a speech about very, very similar idea of, he called it somehow different, but this idea was not only ours, that there was other people obviously think, and that's very Very simple, since you have a token on the XANA network, you can make one single operation, one transaction. Zoidberg It's not like a classic hash -time log -in atomic swap when you do four transactions, two on the boost networks. works. This one you can make a swap in one single transaction and this doesn't create much of a leverage for any of the sides of this deal. Zoidberg So you just may agree on what you exchange on. If as soon as you agree, one person sends a hexamole. Right now we have it on a very basic level. You can send it as a action coded transaction to play the second part, put it in the wallet, see what is the deal offered, accept or deny it. Zoidberg That's it, as soon as you accept the transaction is out in network and in this transaction, the output goes to counterparty. So that's kind of very, very simple from user perspective. So I hope, Doug I hope. It's a more, it's a, more simple, faster atomic swap, essentially, than Zoidberg less. Yeah, yeah, It is more simple and it is actually atomic. It done in one transaction because a hash time locked atomics, not actually atomic, the atomic at some point but before you can cancel it on some phrase. Zoidberg So, yeah. But, let's see how how practical it's going to be, because on top of this, we will try to build something like, it is not a generalized exchange, but something peer -to -peer experience, how you do it in a, for example, and be now peer to peer exchange. Zoidberg We will all try and build something from user experience to look like this on the top this. Doug Right, so just to explain it for people, what the power of these, right? this could be a way for people to go from wrapped Monero to this new private stable coin on Zano using it as a title. Zoidberg In case of we got delisted from everywhere in the world, we still can create liquidity inside XANA. We still cannot create these platforms to exchange one token to another. So, yeah, that's I think the value, main value. Zoidberg But it's just, as I believe, IonicSwap, it would be underlying technology for something that will be on top of this. It's going to be using these swaps to some more convenient user experience. Doug Awesome. Andre, Matt, thank you so much. Yeah, my pleasure. I always always love talking with you, man. Thanks for doing this super excited to hang out with you in person at Monero topia, which is most likely happening in Mexico. Doug We just haven't officially changed yet. So very excited for that. And hopefully some of the team will be able to come with me again. I assume they will. Be right. Get some other guys that very, very cool. Doug Very cool and very exciting to see what comes out of that as you interact with the Luke Parker's of the world and developers from other projects. We're going to have Amir Taki from DarkFi. We'll have hopefully the people from Firo again. Doug So it's a goal siding to know that we could get all these people together. Maybe I could pick your brain too. If there's anybody else you think we should be reaching out to to try to get to attend Monero topia, please let me know. Doug Project people in particular. Okay. Okay, all right. Zoidberg Yeah, thank you. Thank you for inviting me and thank you letting me to be part of this. And yeah, I really appreciate it. And looking forward or Monero tote, Thank You very much. Doug Cheers, Matt. Thank, you thank, you so much you want to just tell people where they could obviously they know Zano to go to just they can find XANTO but where, they could find you on Twitter or wherever, follow you, see what you're working on. Zoidberg I'm not very active on twitter. I have a cryptozoic account on tweeter connected to Zano project, but I tweet like once in a month. I don't think I remember. Doug What if people want to talk to you an IRC or something or talk tech to, you know, is there other public forums that you are hanging out in? Zoidberg Yeah, I'm always on Discord on the project. We always support whoever have problems. The team was always in the support. We also, yeah, on Zano Discord. Yeah. So we are always up for help or for whatever conversation they want. Zoidberg That's where we end. Doug Perfect. They can find you there. Andre, man, thanks again, buddy. Thank you for joining us on this week's episode.