Latest / Made Me Gay / Meet Meg and Mandy: Part 2
Transcript
- Meg and Mandy: Hey there, made me gay listeners. This is Mandy coming at you with a quick little transition here. I welcome you back to part two of Meet Mandy and Meg, where we'll continue to lay out our timeline and hope to make it clear what we're trying to do here. Thanks for being here and don't forget, please email feedback. Please put yourself out there to be in conversation with us at mademe gay podcast at gmail.com. And I hope you make it a wonderful day. Enjoy. In-Person: Yeah. so okay, let's go back to our timeline. So fall now we're now we've now we've gotten to sort of what spring of twenty twenty five when we break up with our people that with when we twenty twenty six. Meg and Mandy: so okay, let's go back to our timeline. So fall now we're now we've now we've gotten to sort of what spring of twenty twenty five when we break up with our people that with the women we were dating. In-Person: Spring of twenty twenty six. yeah, shoot spring of twenty twenty six. God, it's been real fast. I know. So we've had like so much in a year relationships essentially. Yep. Right? Yeah. Meg and Mandy: yeah, shoot, spring of twenty twenty six. And God, it's been real fast. So we both had like fourteen month relationships essentially, right? Yeah. January to March. Yep. Right. Mm-hmm. January twenty twenty five to March twenty twenty six. We saw each other a lot. You did see each other a lot in that year. Considering you did. However, you know, not the same as having someone here. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Who's and somehow still be In-Person: January to March. Right? Mm-hmm. Just over a year. I mean, mine was a long distance relationship. We saw each other a lot, considering considering. However, you know, not the same as having a relationship with someone here full time and like it's been cool to compare notes and like ha somehow still be landing in the same place at the same time too. It's interesting. And and to have had Meg and Mandy: Eating tie at the same time. Yeah. I mean, and and to have had that conversation w I mean, what's funny is we t we said this a little bit earlier, right? But like we're sitting in my kitchen, my old place, eating pad thai, which is ironically what we had for dinner tonight as well. but we're in my kitchen eating dinner and having this conversation, like sharing that this past weekend we both had the same conversation with this with the women we were dating. Like that In-Person: conversation with I mean, what's funny is we t we said this little bit earlier, right? But like we're sitting in my kitchen, my old place, eating pack tie, which is ironically what we had for dinner tonight. Yeah. but we're in my kitchen eating dinner and having this conversation, like sharing that this past weekend we both had the same conversation with this with the women we were dating. Like that Meg and Mandy: that that's just create that In-Person: I it's just cra it is crazy. It's just crazy. You know? and it's so cool being another parent at my kids' school. Like we we're at the point in our relationship where I sometimes we forget or like the people in our community don't even realize that we have that intimate connection and that that's how we until they wondered if we were dating. Until they wondered. What the people at our school? Yeah. yeah. Somebody was yeah, somebody did ask me that if we were dating. Meg and Mandy: It's just crazy, you know. and it's so cool being another parent at my kids' school, like we're at the point in our relationship where as sometimes we forget or like the people in our community don't even realize that we have that intimate connection and that that's until they until they wondered if we were dating. Until they wondered the people at our school. Yeah. Isn't that what isn't that what one of the moms said to you? Somebody was yeah, somebody did ask me that. Yeah. So In-Person: I was like, none of your business. None of your business. No, I'm just kidding. I mean just kidding. You know I think Meg and Mandy: You would be so lucky. I would date you when it was like Just kidding to Mandy's girlfriend. In-Person: honestly my friend I have a friend from college. She's kind of like one of my crazier, funnier friends who's very cheeky. And she was like Amanda. I mean my college friends call me Amanda. Amanda. Meg and Mandy: She's kind of like one of my crazier, funnier friends who's very cheeky. And she was like, Amanda. I mean my college friends call me Amanda. Amanda. In-Person: Th all of the moms are loving this right now. They are all talking about you and your French girlfriend. Meg and Mandy: All of the moms are loving this right now. Are all talking about? I like she just was like enthusiasti like probably when I was in a stage of like Hap got all of the parent friends, they all like him better, he's nicer. I'm an angry lesbian. And Nik yeah, my friend just being like they are loving this. They are definitely talking about us. So yeah, that's probably true. In-Person: I like she just was like enthusiastic like probably when I was in a stage of like, Hap got all of the parent friends, they all like him better, he's nicer. I'm an angry lesbian. And yeah, my friend just being like, They are loving this. They are definitely talking about us. So yeah, that's probably true. Meg and Mandy: That's probably true. That there's a little bit of that. Ooh, are Mandy and Meg dating? Yeah. That's cool though. In-Person: To this day that there's a little bit of like, ooh, I wonder what they're doing. Yeah. That's cool though. We have a lot of really cool people in our community. We can bridge that gap with the with the hippiness of our community and kind of like spiritual people, cool people, down to earth people. and then there's still something about I was just telling someone today about this. We've talked about this before, how there's this like kind of what you've already commented on earlier about that like. Meg and Mandy: We do. Can bridge that gap with the with the hippiness of our community and kind of like spiritual people, people, down-to-earth people. Yeah. and then there's still something about I was just telling someone today about this. We've talked about this before, how there's this like kind of what you've already commented on earlier about that like that heteronormative feeling, right? You can be with a gay person and still feel like you're in this heteronormative environment, right? Right. So In-Person: That heteronormative feeling, right? You can be with a gay person and still feel like you're in this heteronormative environment, right? So when you open up the magic to try to like actually experience that for real, you don't know how that's gonna be until you get it. And then it's like once you see it, once you feel it, once you're in that kind of community, it's so Meg and Mandy: when you open up the magic to try to like actually experience that for real, you don't know how that's gonna be right until you get it. And then it's like once you see it, once you feel it, once you're in that kind of community, it's so In-Person: contrast it's such a contrast to do you need to answer that? Meg and Mandy: It's such a contrast to do you need to answer that? No, I don't. I just need to put it on do not disturb so it's not okay. Raise your hand. Yeah. Okay. but like when you when you don't get that queer community feel and when you're in a heteronorman. Right. We can handle it. Right. We don't tend to be choosing or opting into that as much. Right. Out of a responsibility for social reasons or for In-Person: Are you sure? Okay. but like when you when you don't get that queer community feel and when you're in a heteronormative environment, we can handle it. But we don't tend to be choosing or opting into that as much out of a responsibility for social reasons or for even just like whatever reason you would put yourself in that kind of scenario, you're always gonna be choosing to be more gay once you go Meg and Mandy: even just like whatever reason you would put yourself in that kind of scenario, you're always gonna be choosing to be more gay. Yes. Once you go gay all day. Well w what yeah, the i I think In-Person: gay all day. Well w what yeah, the I think Meg and Mandy: It's it's like twofold for me. It's like gay all day. You know, it's like, is it gay? okay, I'll be there. You know, like that's what we're going hard into right now, you know? And but I think the other In-Person: It's it's like twofold for me. It's like gay all day. You know, it's like is it gay? Okay, I'll be there. You know, like that's what we're going hard into right now. You know? Yeah. And but I think the other Meg and Mandy: I think the other piece of it is In-Person: I think the other piece of it is Meg and Mandy: really reflecting on In-Person: Really reflecting on Meg and Mandy: What marriage felt like what that In-Person: What marriage felt like? What that Meg and Mandy: monogamous one person romantic rema relationship was the primary how that in and of itself was stifling. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's just it's just a heteronormal. In-Person: One person romantic relationship as the primary how that in and of itself was stifling. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And it's just it's just the heteronormative life in general, right? Everyone's out there doing the same thing, living the same miserable life every day. I say miserable. I know, I think I think there are people that are happy and I and there are people that are happy. And that, you know, is But even Meg and Mandy: thing. Living the same miserable life every day. I say miserable. I know, I think I think there are people that are happy and I and and that, you know, is In-Person: those people are like, How are you? I'm so busy, you know? Meg and Mandy: Mm. Right. Right. I mean I I yeah, I just In-Person: I mean I I yeah, I just Meg and Mandy: I want something more expansive. Yeah. I am more expansive. We are. And once you allow yourself to be expansive then you invite that in. Mm-hmm. And then it opens up. In-Person: something more expansive. Yeah. I am more expansive. We are. And once you allow yourself to be expansive, then you invite that in. And then it opens up a whole new way of experiencing life and richness that you didn't even know was there. Mm-hmm. You know? You didn't even know you could ask for, you know. Meg and Mandy: way of experiencing life. Right. Richness that you didn't even know was there. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's something Yeah. I mean I think one of the things that has been f like felt the free that I have said so many times is like dare I want more. D how dare I Yes. Dare I? I do dare. In-Person: Phrase that I have said so many times it's like, dare I want more. D how dare I? Yes. Dare I? I do dare. I literally have that written in a journal at some point. How dare I? It might even be in this journal from earlier in the year that was like a yoga thing that where it's like, no, Meg and Mandy: Dare I it might even be in this journal from earlier in the year that was like a a yoga thing where it's like, no In-Person: I think it might be Kimberly Ann Johnson, to be honest. Meg and Mandy: Mm. In-Person: Where it's like the day where we do the meditation, Meg and Mandy: the day where we do the meditation In-Person: We do this study with the meditation teacher. And how dare you wake up? How dare you. Exactly. Right? So they were. This is the Jaguar course. Ooh doggy. Like, yeah, dare I? Yeah, I dare. I do dare. I do dare. And it's scary. I want more. I want more. And and I want my toes in the fire. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know? I want Meg and Mandy: We do the study with the meditation teacher and how dare you wake up. Yes. How dare you? Exactly. So there we are saying the same same things to ourselves, right? Like, yeah, dare I? Yeah, I dare. I do dare. I do dare. I want more. And and I want my toes in the fire. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I want I want to feel the burn. I wanna live in a space where I've got something to lose. In-Person: Feel the burn. I wanna live in a space where I've got something to lose. Meg and Mandy: I want it to be honest. I want it to be difficult. I want to turn towards it. In-Person: it to be honest, I want it be difficult, I want to turn towards it. You have something to turn towards, right? Meg and Mandy: Yeah. In-Person: And for me it's the sensation of leaning against. Like I want to be able Meg and Mandy: Mm-hmm. In-Person: to like feel my edges and I want to know where I am in space. Because I'm going off of you, I'm going off of you. You know what mean? It's such a powerful feeling to be held in community. It is. It really is. It really requires that surrender. Meg and Mandy: And I know where I am in space. Because I'm going off of you, I'm going off of you. Yeah. It's such a powerful feeling to be held in community. It is. It really is. It really, really that's surrender. Yeah, and to be seen. Right. It's scary too. And but also I think well, I I I think the thing that feels who was I talking to? I was talking I was talking to my friend last night at dinner and and she was like, So is In-Person: seen. That's scary too. Yeah. And but also I think well I I I think the thing that feels who was I talking to? I was talking I was talking to my friend last night at dinner and and she was like, So is because I have a little birthday coming up. Yes you do. And so she was asking me she's my one straight friend coming to the party. she's like so everybody you know I was like going through the name. She's like do I know about everybody? So I was like telling her a little bit about everybody. Meg and Mandy: 'Cause I have a little birthday coming up. And so she was asking me she's my one straight friend coming to the party. and so she was asking me, she was like, So everybody, you know, I was like going through the name. She's like, Do do I know about everybody? So I I was like telling her a little bit about everybody In-Person: Cool. And she's like, and so how many of these women were married to men? And I was like, all of us. Right. Right? Yeah. Every single one of us has has been married to a man. And so that I think is the other really Meg and Mandy: and she's like, And so how many of these women were married to men? And I was like, all of us, right? Like every single one of us was has been married to a man. And so that I think is the other really In-Person: cool, unique thing, right? Yeah. I mean we Meg and Mandy: Yeah. In-Person: are we are speaking to people who are coming out later in life and we're also hopefully gonna get the attention Meg and Mandy: Mm-hmm. In-Person: of some people who have those people in their lives and they just don't understand. Meg and Mandy: Yes. And they just don't understand. But In-Person: Or they don't get it. Like when I say how healing and beautiful it is to be in queer in community and that threatens you as a hetero normative person, like just take a moment and just Meg and Mandy: they don't get it. Like when I say how healing and beautiful it is to be in a current community and that threatens you as a heterose right normative person, like just take a moment and just In-Person: and just remember that it literally is giving the queer person life to find queer community. And that can be on very literal terms. Like I was having a pretty severe mental health crisis at the end of my marriage, and I needed to. Meg and Mandy: And that can be on very literal terms. Like I was having a pretty severe mental health crisis at the end of my marriage. And I needed to create safety for myself, mentally and emotionally. And that was really hard for like so many people in my life to understand, especially because I was married to such a nice guy, such a passive guy, such a kind of would never, you know, intentionally do anything to hurt me. In-Person: create safety for myself, mentally and emotionally. And that was really hard for like so many people in my life to understand, especially because I was married to such a nice guy, such a passive guy, such a kind of would never, you know, intentionally do anything to hurt me. I'm really interested, like I was telling a friend the other day, if I ever went back and studied for a PhD, it would be to study like what are the effects on your mental health as a queer person in the world. Meg and Mandy: interested like I was telling a friend the other day if I ever went back and studied for a PhD would be to study like what are the effects on your mental health as a queer person in the world. Yeah. Just being a queer person. Right. So then like to choose later in life after creating In-Person: Just being a queer person, right? So then like to choose later in life after creating a ton of safety and stability and s family structure to like intentionally then say no, I can't continue I cannot continue forward on this path. No. There's not it's not high conflict. I mean there's conflict, obviously, right? But it's not high conflict. Our therapist did call us high conflict in the end. Meg and Mandy: stability and structure to like intentionally then say no, I can't continue I cannot continue forward on this path. Yeah, when it's not abusive, no one has cheated, there's not it's not high conflict. I mean there's conflict, obviously, right? But it's not high conflict, so there's no conflict in the end. Well, okay. We can get into that. But later date. Yeah. It's like But yeah, there's not In-Person: Well we can get into that. But later date. Yeah, it's like yeah. Meg and Mandy: it's working well enough. In-Person: It was working well enough if I was willing Meg and Mandy: You know. In-Person: to completely self abandon. And I was still really committed to self abandonment because I to stay in relationship. To stay in the relationship. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: To stay in relationship. In-Person: and I will give my ex that credit that he finally pulled the plug and was like, No I think he knew that I needed to to separate from him to get better and that I couldn't keep trying to make him something he's not. And that's so fair, you know? Meg and Mandy: He tried to make him something he's not. I mean that's so fair, you know. Yeah, I mean I I knew I didn't I needed to go. I needed to be on my own. I needed to figure it out. In-Person: And I n I knew I didn't I needed to go. I needed to be on my own. I needed to figure it out. Meg and Mandy: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm just I'm thinking about what you said of like giving him In-Person: I'm thinking about what you said of like giving Meg and Mandy: credit for it's so generous kind of saying. In-Person: It's so generous, right? Is it fawning? Am I fawning? No, it's not fawning. Actually, I think it's like a deeply spiritual response because what you're saying essentially is like Meg and Mandy: No, it's not fawning, actually. I think it's like a deeply spiritual response because what you're saying essentially is like I can really see that this thing that was really painful and that, you know, created a lot of like hurt and anger and like grief and feelings that you continue to still work through while that is true, this other thing is true, which is like it is also the thing that needed to happen. In-Person: really see that this thing that was really painful and that, you know, created a lot of like hurt and anger and like grief and feelings that you continue to still work through. Mm-hmm. While that is true, this other thing is true, which is like it is also the thing that needed to happen. Mm-hmm. Like he did the thing that needed to be done and that was like a gift. It was a gift in the end. You know, for for everyone. Yeah, like that's I just think that that's Meg and Mandy: Like he did the thing that needed to be done and that was like a gift to you. You know? And so yeah, like that's I just think that that's yeah, like wanna just highlight In-Person: Highlight. Meg and Mandy: that a little bit 'cause I I think that's important. In-Person: Thanks. Meg and Mandy: Mm-hmm. In-Person: It's like This is gonna be the conversations we have on this podcast about the real effect of heteronormativity on people in general, but specifically on queer people. yeah, the the compet life, the compulsory heteronormativity that we all pretty much grow up with. you know, there were there were gay people in the nineties when we were growing up. Meg and Mandy: gonna be the conversations we have on this podcast about the real effect of heteronormativity on people in general, but specifically on fur people. right. Yeah, the the compact life, the compulsory heteronormativity that we all pretty much grow up with. you know, there were there were gay people in the nineties when we were growing up. In-Person: I mean, there was there were. I hear about it, I see now. Meg and Mandy: I mean there was you right, there were like two two gay kids in the school, right? It was who? There were just like a couple a couple gay kids in the school. There just weren't that many. Sure, right. Right. But like right at graduation, like it was so covert. In-Person: Who? There were just like a couple a couple of gay kids in the school. They're just not I didn't know any gay people in my school until in my senior year and I like, sure, Steven and Sam from from theater, like they're gay. Right. But like right at graduation, like it was so covert. I mean, I grew up in Arizona. Meg and Mandy: Yeah, I guess I'm actually thinking in Wheaton, there I didn't really know any out gay people. I don't think I see even like in the ether, in the in the area, in the movies, in the music. Like I can we can look back now and appreciate some like gay icons that era. Covert and not explicit, and you have to know what you're looking for, and you also have to willingness to acknowledge what you're seeing. In-Person: Honestly, but just even like in the ether, in the in the media, in the movies, in the music, like I can we can look back now and appreciate some like gay icon stuff from the era. Covert and covert, definitely more covert what you're looking for in your willingness to acknowledge what you're seeing. No, and but like when we started, you know, speak for myself, like when I played softball and was like kinda strong, kinda outspoken. Meg and Mandy: like kind of strong, kind of outspoken, you know, it's a combination of like who I am as a person and also like the environment I grew up in, which was kind of like not the greatest neighborhood. I was easily called a lesbian. And I knew I I learned at a very young age that that was not something that I should want to be. In-Person: You know, it's a combination of like who I am as a person and also like the environment I grew up in, which was kind of like not the greatest neighborhood. I was easily called a lesbian. And I knew I I learned at a very young age that that was not something that I should want to be. Meg and Mandy: Yeah, I mean I just I wasn't called a lesbian, but I had this like don't mess with me attitude, right? And like people In-Person: like people and Meg and Mandy: And I did kind of like it just was like a a little aggressive at times, maybe, and tried to be assertive, but In-Person: I did kind of like it just was like a a little aggressive at times maybe and tried to be assertive but Meg and Mandy: Always a little bit awkward and uncomfortable. That's the queerness, right? Right. That's the like I'm different. Mm-hmm. Yeah. In-Person: Always a little bit awkward and uncomfortable. That's the queerness, right? Like that's the like I'm different. Mm-hmm. That seventh grade volleyball player. Seventh grade. Seventh seventh grade friends you were talking to or something. So I'm seventh. Meg and Mandy: seventh grade. well so seventh grade friends you were talking to or something. Yeah, so so I'm in seventh grade and I'm in seventh grade. And In-Person: So great. Meg and Mandy: I asked my friends, do you In-Person: My friends Meg and Mandy: ever think you're gonna be gay when you grow up? And they all say no. And I'm like, yeah, me neither. In-Person: Meaning there. Meg and Mandy: And you know, that's kind of the first like real moment that I remember asking the question, you know? And then from there In-Person: You know, that's kind of the first like real moment that I remember asking the question. You know? And then from there in high school just thinking, I'll figure it out when I'm in college you know. And then You were kissing boys? In high school though? Yeah, I kiss I I had a thing for like my my neighbor down the street for most of like middle school and high school and we dated in high school and Meg and Mandy: in high school just thinking, I'll figure it out when I'm in college, you know, and then going to kids and boys. What'd you say? High school though? Yeah, I kissed I I had a thing for like my my neighbor down the street for most of like middle school and high school and we dated in high school and kissed a couple of other people and had crushes and stuff like that. But also sort of always at the back of my mind like I'll figure this thing out when I go to college. You know, this was something they're even supposed to I did. You weren't even willing to like identify it. Yeah or allow yourself In-Person: kissed a couple of other people and had crushes and stuff like that, but also sort of always at the back of my mind like, I'll figure this thing out when I go to college. You knew there was something there you were suppressing, but you weren't even willing to like identify it. Or allow yourself to have a crush on a girl. No. Meg and Mandy: No, no, but I go to college and I go to the same college as my best friend from high school and we both join the same sorority. And so I did I definitely didn't feel like I had the space and and she made a comment to me once she's like, so it's my fault and I no, no, this is not your fault at all. This is this is just me and what what I was willing to look at and what I was willing to consider and what I was willing to be honest with myself about, you know. So no, this was this is on me. Yeah. In-Person: same college as my best friend from high school and we both joined the same sorority and so I did I definitely didn't feel like I had the space and and she made a comment once she like so it's my fault and I no no this is not your fault at all this is this is just me and what what I was willing to look at and what I was willing to consider and what I was willing to be honest with myself about, you know? So no this was this is on me. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: But nevertheless, I just didn't feel like I had the space. So I didn't even really think about it. And then I I'm in my early twenties and I was playing volleyball on a all lesbian volleyball team. Everybody's a lesbian and then me. In-Person: But nevertheless I just didn't feel like I had the space. So I didn't even really think about it. And then I I'm in my early twenties and I was playing volleyball on a all lesbian volleyball team. Everybody's a lesbian and then me. God, I love that for you. Yeah. And shall I should I keep going? Yeah. And you So okay, so I'm on this lesbian volleyball team and Meg and Mandy: Yeah. And shall should I keep going? Yeah. Okay. So okay, so I'm on this lesbian volleyball team and also during this time I start I was dating this this guy, Andy, different Andy. So I was dating Andy One and I'm playing on this lesbian volleyball team and Andy and I break up and it's summer of two thousand seven and I get together with I'm I at this point I'm a high school social worker, so I have my summers off and In-Person: Also during this time I start I was dating this this guy, Andy, different Andy. So I was dating Andy one and I'm playing on this Lesbian volleyball team and Andy and I break up and it's summer of two thousand seven and I get together with I'm I w at this point I'm a high school social worker, so I have my summers off. And I got together with my friend Meg and Mandy: I got together with my friend Kate. She worked at Anthropology. Mm-hmm. And so on her lunch break, we would get together and have lunch. So we're sitting out on Southport Avenue in Chicago. In-Person: Who worked at anthropology. So on her lunch break, we would get together and have lunch. So we're sitting out on Southport Avenue in Chicago. Meg and Mandy: Right down the street from the anthra there. And I said to her that I think I might be gay. And she was like, Okay, well, we gotta figure this out. Like, you gotta figure this out. And we kind of like talked about what I was gonna do. I was gonna go to the center on Halstead, which is like the center on Colfax here. I I was In-Person: said to her that I think I might be gay. And she was like, okay, well we gotta figure this out. Like we gotta figure this out. And we kind of like talked about what I was gonna do. I was gonna go to the center on Holstead, which is like the center on Colfax here. Mm-hmm. Meg and Mandy: gonna go to the center on Halstead and I was gonna like see if there were any groups or anything like that. But it was like terrifying to do this. Terrifying. And I never really had said it out loud to anybody, but I said it out loud to Kate. In-Person: like terrifying to do. Terrifying. And I never really had said it out loud to anybody, but I said it out loud to Kate Meg and Mandy: And and then I didn't really do anything about it. And I keep playing on this lesbian volleyball team, but and then that fall I'm in lesbian volleyball league In-Person: and and then I didn't really do anything about it. And I keep playing on this lesbian volleyball team but and then that fall I'm in Lesbian Volleyball League. Meg and Mandy: and one of my friends on the team, I was I asked her if she would go get a drink with me. And we go get a drink, and I'm like, Hey, I think I might be gay. And she's like, Yeah. Essentially, like you play on a volleyball team with all lesbians. Like you're the only straight straight person, you know, quote unquote. She's like, In-Person: her if she would go get a drink with me and we go get a drink and I'm like, hey, I think I might be gay. And she's like, Yeah. Essentially, like you play on a volleyball team with all lesbians. Like you're the only straight straight person, you know, quote unquote. She's like Meg and Mandy: most, you know, like straight women don't play on the lesbian volleyball team essentially, right? And so it was like, okay. And I started to like orient to it. This is like fall of twenty t fall of two thousand seven, sorry, fall of two thousand seven. In-Person: most, you know, like straight women don't play volume team essentially, right? Yes. And so it was like, okay. And I started to like orient to it. This is like fall of twenty t fall of two thousand seven, sorry. Fall of two thousand seven. Meg and Mandy: And December of two thousand seven, I meet Andy number two, who I am who I marry. In-Person: In December of two thousand seven I meet Andy number two, who I am who I marry. Wait, December two thousand seven. Okay. Happen I met December two thousand six. Two thousand six, okay. So you're yeah. But yeah. You can't you literally came out to two different people. And then you went right back in the closet and you like, I'm gonna make some babies. Yeah. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: Two thousand seven. December two thousand six. Two thousand six. Okay, so you were a year before us. Yeah. But yeah. I literally came out to two different people. And then you went and I went right back in. We were like, I'm on the babies. Yeah. Yeah. And when I saw Andy, you know, I met him on a it was a blind date. And when I made I like saw him, I it was like the door In-Person: saw him I it was like the door he was holding the door open for me and it was like I looked at him and I was like I'm going to marry him it was like a soul recognition moment really and it was really clear and I never mar I never questioned marrying him ever. It felt right. Mm-hmm. so yeah. Yeah. And we have her journeys, right? Like happened I broke Meg and Mandy: He was holding the door open for me and it was like I looked at him and I was like, I'm going to marry him. It was like a soul recognition moment, really. And it was really clear. And I never mar I never questioned marrying him ever. It felt right. so yeah. So And we have our journeys, right? Happen every In-Person: up once in after like six years and then Meg and Mandy: Six years and In-Person: got back together a year later by getting married. And when we broke up, I was like, but we were gonna make babies together. Yeah. And I can relate with that kind of like Yes. When you know that there's this certain type of fit. Yes. Right? Meg and Mandy: getting married and when we broke up I was like but we were gonna make babies together yeah yeah relate with that kind of like Yes when you know that there's this certain type of fit yes right In-Person: And I don't know if that's like our lesbian four mothers DNA that is like pre programmed in to be like, who shall Meg and Mandy: And for mothers DNA programming to be like who shall In-Person: we find that will be Not bother us too much and and we can Who is tolerable? Who's tolerable? He made it past the filter. Yeah. And yeah, nice guys. Both really nice guys. Both nice guys both nice guys and good fathers. Like I have a much appreciation for Andy's soul agreeing to partner with me. Yeah. And and give Meg and Mandy: Yes. Yes. Yes. And we can Who is tolerable? Who is tolerable? He made it past the filter. Yeah. And yeah, nice guys. Both really nice. Yes, both nice guys. Well, both nice guys and and honestly, like I have a much appreciation for Andy's soul agreeing to partner with me and and give you know, create this family with me. That's beautiful. we In-Person: create this family with yeah. That's beautiful. we yeah, I think we parent really well together, like in a collaborative way. When when the marriage relationship is out of the way, we actually can collaborate really well as parents. Meg and Mandy: Yeah, I think we parent really well together, like in a collaborative way. When when the marriage relationship is out of the way, we actually can collaborate really well as parents. In-Person: Yeah, I feel the same way. We were always that's that's all our wedding vows were about, was about being a team. Yeah. Working together as a team. And that is Meg and Mandy: Yeah. Yes. Working together as a team. Yes. Exactly. In-Person: definitely where we shine when we can communicate well. Meg and Mandy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So So we have a a timeline. It's brought us to today. I think that we're gonna get into more stories. In-Person: Yeah. For sure. So we have a a timeline. It's brought us to today. Mm-hmm. I think that we're gonna get into more stories and I'm so interested to know, like too, just thinking of ourselves in one year's time from now. And then two years and three years and like thinking about this concept that you and I are both kind of are very into with this like Meg and Mandy: so interested to know like too just thinking of ourselves in one year's time from now. Like where we'll be years and like thinking about this concept that you and I are both kind of are very into with this like cheekiness of saying like gay all day is it gay from there. It's like it's like we joke, but it's also like for real. It is for real, yes. Yes. And I think I had a really interesting conversation with a college friend In-Person: cheekiness of saying like gay all day, is it gay? Okay, I'm there. It's like it's like we joke, but it's also like for realsies. And I think I had a really interesting conversation with a college friend of mine, who was in town for a concert and she has a male partner who was here at the house and you know, I said something about gay and he was like, no, you know, you don't need to have a label or was kind of like, you know Meg and Mandy: and she has a male partner who is here at the house and you know, I said something about gay and he was like, no, you know, you don't need to have a label or kind of like you know In-Person: And I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, I want the gay label. And also it's actually very important to have some labels and some like explicit identity expression because this Meg and Mandy: and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, I want the gay label and also it's actually very important to have some labels and some like explicit identity expression. Right. Because This is how we find each other. This is how we validate each other. This is how we hold each other in community. It's kind of lifting each other up and being like, Yes, that sure makes you look more gay. This is how we speak a language In-Person: is how we find each other. And this is how we validate each other. And this is how we hold each other in community is by lifting each other up and being like, Yes, that shirt makes you look more gay. That's amazing. Meg and Mandy: that's common. This is how we can relate to each other's experiences. This is And it's like, is it gonna last? Is it gonna always be like this? In-Person: Yeah. Relate to other's experiences. This is And it's like, is it gonna last? Is it gonna always be like this? Or are we just like in our kind of like early twenties developmentally right now as gay people? I don't know. Right. T B D we you know, we probably sound like a couple of you know back in the day you know we sound like a couple of twenty year olds. Like we are not doing monogamy again. Meg and Mandy: Right. I don't know. Right. Maybe we you know, we probably sound like a couple of you know, like back in the day you know, we probably sound like a couple of twenty year olds. Like we are not doing monogamy again. Okay. We are just not doing that. We're gonna do it a different way. We're gonna clear the hair. Right. And in five In-Person: We're gonna do it a different way. We're gonna queer it up over here, people. Meg and Mandy: years we'll be married, sitting on the fucking couch again. We're gonna be like In-Person: You know, we're gonna be like Glenn and Doyle and Yabby Wombach wondering what to do after they're done eating dinner at six fifteen. Isn't that adorable? Just listening to them to take goals. Also like relatable. I think that I'm in a state right Meg and Mandy: Yes. So cute. Goals. Goals. Also like relatable. I think that I'm in a state right now In-Person: now where I can see that future of like really partnering up and and hunkering down and domesticating and Meg and Mandy: see that future of like really partnering up and hunkering down and domesticating life planning and all that kind of stuff like which is cool. It doesn't it doesn't scare me. Yeah. I do feel like fuzzy and warm thinking about those kinds of things. Yeah. And I'm just keeping my frickin' other eye open and just trying to keep an eye out for like In-Person: life planning and all that kind of stuff, like which is cool. It doesn't it doesn't scare me. Yeah. I do feel like fuzzy and warm thinking about those kinds of things. Yeah. And I'm just keeping my frickin' other eye open and just trying to keep an eye out for like falling into any traps that are gonna lead me back on a path of any sort of like heteronormativity. Meg and Mandy: falling into any traps that are gonna lead me back on a path of any sort of like heteronormativity. Right. Honestly. Right. Keeping your eyes open for the pattern. Yeah. In-Person: Honestly, 'cause it's it it really comes down to the why, right? The patterns, yeah. Why. Well why are we gonna do that? Yeah. Is that you know, really just is really questioning everything, every step of the way, going slow, Meg and Mandy: Yes. Is that what we want? Really questioning everything. Yeah. Every step of the way. Going slow. In-Person: continuing to listen to myself, stay stay connected to myself. Meg and Mandy: Stay connected to myself. Yes. And I'm I'm looking forward to just really collecting stories from people. I think like we've said enough of our story today, but we'll we'll continue to reveal more. Yeah, we In-Person: Yes. And I'm I'm looking forward to just really collecting stories from people. I think like we've said enough of our story today, but we'll we'll continue to reveal more. Meg and Mandy: didn't we haven't you I spoke a lot more about my story today than you did. You kinda shared a little bit more about your story and I kinda mentioned at the beginning about you know how the yoga was kind of like the In-Person: Yeah, you kinda you kinda shared a little bit more about your story and and I kinda mentioned at the beginning about, you know, how the yoga was kind of like the root I think of of the access of access to myself. And then that kind of turned into this like justice work in twenty twenty being a public educator, George Floyd, like Black Lives Matter, really like internalizing and learning about the LGBT cube community being a real ally, you know, and then just like naturally collecting all these like Meg and Mandy: think of of the access of access to myself. And then that kind of turned into this like justice work in twenty twenty, being a public educator, George Floyd, like Black Lives Matter, really like internalizing and learning about the LGBTQ community being a real ally. You know and then just like naturally collecting all these like or connecting with all these LGBTQ subjects and people and artists and musicians and like In-Person: or connecting with all these LGBTQ subjects and people and artists and musicians and like I just I dove into my healing work at that stage. I really started therapy for the first time. I figured out how to revolutionize my career my career to become what I do today, which is teaching high school PE and health. And it's like could be more in alignment with who I am as a person and what I care about and what I'm here to do on this planet. Meg and Mandy: I just I dove into my healing work at that stage. I really started therapy for the first time. I figured out how to r revolutionize my career my career to become what I do today, which is teaching high school PE and health. And it's like could be more in alignment with who I am as a person and what I care about and what I'm here to do on this planet. You know, teaching high school Spanish for fourteen years was fun and fine. and now I'm here to do this and In-Person: you know, teaching high school Spanish for fourteen years was fun and fine. and now I'm here to do this. And Meg and Mandy: So my queerness was my avenue to the awakening. Yeah. The political side of things. It was In-Person: so my queerness was my avenue to the awakening. It was the political side of things. It was yeah, that's that's what what brought me here and what absolutely ultimately like kind of Meg and Mandy: Yeah, that's that's what what brought me here and what absolutely ultimately like kind of I wanted to say repulsed my husband, but really it was like it it was what made the marriage untenable. Yeah. You know, it just was like yeah, I couldn't I couldn't be completely me and still perform all of those roles the world of masks. Right. I was I couldn't In-Person: I wanted to say repulsed my husband, but really it was like it it was what made the marriage untenable done. You know. It just was like I couldn't I couldn't be completely me and still perform all of those roles and wear all those masks. Right. It was I couldn't do it anymore. And that was what was best for for me and for my children, you know? Mm-hmm. Anyone. Everybody who I come in contact with. Especially myself. Meg and Mandy: And that was what was best for for me and for my children, you know? Anybody. Everybody who I come in contact with. Especially myself. Yeah. Yeah. And and I think that for you it was like a s the slow peeling back and really that like awakening. In-Person: Yeah, yeah. And and I think that for you it was like a s the slow peeling back and really that like awakening. Mm-hmm. It was mine wasn't. Meg and Mandy: Whereas mine was a little bit more of an epiphany at a red light, but In-Person: Blows my mind. It really does. 'Cause I suffered for so long. I was just so tearing myself up about it and I had this like very Meg and Mandy: I know. It really does. It yeah. 'Cause I suffered for so long. I was just so tearing myself up about it and I had this like very In-Person: like covert, like adolescent crush on my dance teacher that was just like killing me inside 'cause I couldn't share it with anybody and I would share it with like a couple select people about how I really felt and that felt just just those feelings felt like I was cheating on my ex, you know, because I couldn't Meg and Mandy: crush on my dance teacher that was just like killing me inside because I couldn't share it with anybody and I would share it with like a couple of select people about how I really felt and that felt just just those feelings felt like I was cheating on my next. Yeah. You know, because I couldn't but I was like doing it because I was I was doing somatic work. I was doing yeah, you know, healing circle stuff and like that was painful. In-Person: But I was like doing it because I was I was doing somatic work. I was doing movement, you know, healing circle stuff and like that was painful. Meg and Mandy: And I still knew it was like what I had to do. Yeah. I had to kind of burn it down a little bit. In-Person: And I still knew it was like what I had to do. Yeah. I had to kind of burn it down a little bit. Meg and Mandy: Yes. For me. You didn't have to burn it down. In-Person: For me. You didn't have to burn it down. Meg and Mandy: Mm. I mean, you dissolved the family unit. Dissolved the family unit. But it wasn't No. Didn't have burn it down energy. No, In-Person: I mean, you dissolved the family unit. Dissolved unit. But it wasn't No. burned. There wasn't much fire involved. Meg and Mandy: there wasn't. Yeah. There wasn't. Yeah. And I had some shame about that when I first was In-Person: had some shame about that when I first was comparing those with your story, for sure. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: With your story or something. Yeah. Yes. But shame is my In-Person: Yeah. Shame is my. Meg and Mandy: friend in a place I can go very easily, in a place I had been, you know. I think I think part of I think I had done so much work already with shame itself that that did kind of allow it to be a bit more of an epiphany in a way. Yeah. You have In-Person: In a place I had been, you know. I think I think part of I think I had done so much work already with shame itself that that did kind of allow it to be a bit more of an epiphany. Yeah. Yeah. You had actually come out and almost went there with yourself. Mm-hmm. And it's just so it's so incredible to me how it Meg and Mandy: with yourself. Mm-hmm. And it's just so it's so incredible to me how it In-Person: how Meg and Mandy: you know, heteronormativity conditions us so much that we can really like let something so profound as like a very the the very baseline I part of our identity that can and should be seeing the light of day, that it could be just there under the surface. Right. And we can keep it just just there. Like it was right there for you. You know? It didn't take more searching and 'cause you knew. I knew. You knew. In-Person: you know, heteronormativity conditions us so much that we can really like let something so profound as like a very the the very baseline I part of our identity that can and should be seeing the light of day, that it could be just there under the surface. Right. And we can keep it just just there. Like it was right there for you. You know? It didn't take more searching and 'cause you knew. I knew. You knew. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: Yeah. And I think again, In-Person: Think again. Meg and Mandy: having been listening to my body more, right, when this download, this intuition comes in, the marriage is over. In-Person: Right, when this download, this intuition comes in, the marriage is over. Meg and Mandy: I can I'm trusting it more. I'm like, I've trusted everything else. You know? And then the next day waking up and being like, And I'm gay. And gay. And I am gay, my friend. So In-Person: I'm like, I've trusted everything else. So cool. You know? And then the next day waking up and being like, and I'm gay. And I'm gay. I am gay, my friend. you're like, Meg and Mandy: Yeah. So okay, here's where we're at, Mandy. We're an hour and five minutes into recording. In-Person: So okay, here's where we're at, Mandy. We're an hour and five minutes into work. Sounds cool. I think we did great. I think we did great. What if we what if we pause it here and do an intro and then an outro. Yeah. But as separate recordings, 'cause I think that's gonna be easier to like put them together rather than have to like cut, I don't know, separate recordings? Well, I know the best. Meg and Mandy: I think we did great. I think we did great. What if we what if we pause it here and do an intro and then an outro. Yeah. But as separate recordings, 'cause I think that's gonna be easier to like put them together rather than have to like cut, I don't know, separate recordings? We'll find out the best way to do it. In-Person: feel like we have to say goodbye. Yeah. Hey, thanks for being here tonight. Thanks for going on this journey and getting it going. Yeah. Episode number one. Episode number one. If you liked it, if you if you liked it, please share it. Share it and subscribe. Tell your friends. Send it to your uncle. As long as he's not like a total tromper, you know? Yeah. Meg and Mandy: Yeah. Hey, thanks for being here tonight. Thanks for going on this journey. Yeah. Yeah. Episode number one. Episode number one. If you liked it, if you if you liked it, please share it. Share it and subscribe. Tell your friends. Mm-hmm. Send it to your uncle. Mm. Mm hmm. As long as he's not like a total trumper, you know. Yeah. Someone who's in the arena. Yeah. In-Person: Someone who's in the arena. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: And I think our goal is two podcasts a month, right? In-Person: And I think our goal is two podcasts a month, right? Sounds amazing. Yeah. So we'll be back in a couple of weeks. Yeah. Meg and Mandy: Yeah. So we'll be back in a couple of weeks. Yeah. And more to come. In-Person: More to come. We're gonna bring some people on here, tell some stories. Meg and Mandy: Mm-hmm. In-Person: And we look forward to hearing from you. Make me gay podcast at gmail dot com. Meg and Mandy: Yeah. Made me gay podcast at gmail dot com. Yeah. yeah, made me gay podcast at gmail dot com. And yeah, maybe we say goodbye here. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. Okay. Next time. See you next time. In-Person: at gmail.com and yeah maybe we say goodbye here. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see you next time. See you next time. Deuces. Meg and Mandy: Hey there, made me gay podcast listeners. This is Meg coming through with a little disclaimer. And I think it's important to know that this disclaimer is really relevant because Mandy and I, Mandy's an educator and I'm a therapist. And so we have these backgrounds and we have these ideas that we are bringing into this conversation. And I think at times we may sound like we're an expert or we may sound like we're giving advice or It might sound like we are strongly suggesting that somebody do something. And so I want to just share this really important disclaimer with all of you. The Mamie Gay podcast is for general and educational purposes only. The information here does not constitute mental health therapy, medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Listening to this podcast or engaging with material from May Me Gay Podcast does not form a therapist-client relationship between you and Meg or Mandy. If you have or suspect you have a mental health or medical condition, please seek support from a licensed therapist, a physician, or qualified healthcare provider immediately. Please do not disregard any professional advice or delay seeking treatment because of something you have heard on this podcast. The Mammy Gay podcast email is not monitored for emergencies. If you are experiencing a mental health crisis or emergency, please call your local emergency services. Go to the near nearest emergency room or call or text the Suicide and Crisis Lifeline at 988. We really take this this portion of our podcast seriously. We want to ensure that everybody is getting what they need. mental health is real. These life transitions are big. And the biggest thing for for Mandy and I is for everybody to get the care that they need.