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UnchainedTV: PETA's Ingrid Newkirk Turns 75 & Reveals Her Fascinating Life! · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

0:01
We have a very exciting show for you
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today with some breaking news.
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It is Ingrid Newkirk's 75th birthday.
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This is the woman who launched PETA back
0:18
in 1980, the world's most powerful, most influential
0:25
animal rights organisation.
0:27
And leave it to Ingrid Newkirk to use
0:30
her birthday not to celebrate herself, but to
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issue a call to action to you, to
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you to speak for voiceless animals.
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There are 75 simple ways that you can
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help animals for Ingrid's birthday.
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Animals used in experimentation, food, animals used for
0:48
clothing, animals used for entertainment, companion animals, of
0:53
course, wildlife, as well as those poor creatures
0:56
used for dissection.
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There are many, many other ways that you
1:01
can help celebrate Ingrid Newkirk's birthday.
1:05
And I am so honoured that we have
1:09
Ingrid Newkirk, my hero here for the hour
1:11
on Unchained TV, straight out to you, Ingrid,
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happy birthday.
1:17
Thank you.
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I'm the same person I ever was.
1:20
I don't know what happened that I came
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to be 75, but I'm as determined as
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ever to do as much as possible for
1:27
animals.
1:28
I just hate that the clock is still
1:30
ticking.
1:32
Well, tell us, you founded PETA way back
1:35
in 1980.
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How far have we come?
1:40
Oh boy, we have come a long, long,
1:42
long, long way.
1:43
I always say it's like a massive mountain
1:46
range that we have to conquer or we
1:48
have to climb.
1:50
But we have gone up and up and
1:52
up and we've got a long way to
1:54
go, but it's nothing like what it was
1:58
in 1980.
1:59
And I guess people who are 20 today
2:02
or 15 or 25 haven't the faintest clue
2:06
of how there weren't all these extraordinary options
2:11
available in 1980.
2:14
I mean, we didn't even have the internet,
2:15
so you had to leaflet on the street,
2:17
but you couldn't get plant milk to save
2:20
your life.
2:21
So it's been extraordinary.
2:24
Well, I always say you are my hero
2:28
because every single day, I get a call
2:34
to action from PETA and every single day
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I follow that call to action.
2:40
And what's so fantastic about it is once
2:42
you sign up to PETA.org, boom, boom,
2:45
boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
2:47
In 10, 15 seconds, you can send letters
2:50
out to your members of Congress, your representatives
2:53
and your senators, to the head of the
2:55
USDA, to the head of the NIH.
2:58
It is so unbelievable, the effectiveness of your
3:02
organisation.
3:04
It is a fine-tuned machine and that's
3:06
why they come after you because you are
3:08
the largest and most powerful animal rights organisation
3:12
in the world.
3:14
So I wanna talk to you about some
3:16
big moments.
3:17
I don't think a lot of people know
3:19
your life story.
3:20
You were born in England, but you moved
3:23
to India when you were a child.
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Will you tell us about your formative years
3:27
and how they influenced you devoting your life
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to speaking up for voiceless animals?
3:34
Well, Jane, I'm the poster child for slow
3:36
learning because I grew up in the land
3:40
of Ahimsa from the time I was seven
3:42
years old until I was 16.
3:44
And you'd think that I would have emerged
3:47
at least as a vegetarian, but I didn't.
3:50
I grew up in a family that we
3:53
considered ourselves animal lovers.
3:56
My mother, bless her heart, she adored children.
3:59
She loved animals, but we never connected the
4:01
dots between the shoes that we had.
4:04
I had a wild cat fur hat from
4:08
Kashmir.
4:09
We had ivory on the ornamentation on the
4:13
sideboard.
4:14
We had an elephant's foot umbrella stand in
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the hallway and people would come over and
4:20
talk about pig sticking, which is going out
4:22
and hunting wild boar.
4:25
So all those things were going on, but
4:27
my friends were all vegetarian.
4:29
They were all Indian.
4:30
Nobody was vegan, but I met the Jains,
4:35
which is a wonderful religious sect.
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And they would be so considerate of animals.
4:40
They would sweep the ground before they walked
4:43
to make sure they didn't step on insects.
4:46
They would never have a meal after sundown
4:49
because insects might be drawn to the light
4:51
of the cooking fire, all sorts of things
4:54
like that.
4:55
But when I went back to England, I
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was still a meat and potatoes person and
5:01
I loved organ meats and all that stuff.
5:03
But I will say this.
5:06
Our house was full of injured animals, stray
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animals, and stray and injured people.
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Unwed mothers who'd been thrown out of their
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home.
5:15
We worked for the leper colony.
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We worked for Mother Teresa.
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We packed pills, we stuffed toys for kids
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because my mother said, even though she didn't
5:26
understand the whole concept, she said, it doesn't
5:29
matter who suffers.
5:30
It matters that they suffer and what you
5:33
can do about it.
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So I grew up stopping people on the
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street from beating the bullocks that pulled the
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heavy carts, taking in the stray dogs with
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mange and had all sorts of experiences like
5:47
that, but still kept on eating and wearing
5:49
animals and buying things that were tested on
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them.
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It just wasn't on the radar.
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Wow, well, your story is so inspirational because
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you're so honest.
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I mean, some people might say, well, it'd
6:02
be easy to pretend I was born perfect,
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but very few people are born vegan.
6:07
Very few people are perfect at any point.
6:09
So by expressing your journey, you give everyone
6:12
hope that they can move forward.
6:14
Now, you launched PETA in 1980 and in
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the 44 years you've accomplished so much, let's
6:22
go back to what I would consider, and
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you can correct me if I'm wrong, a
6:28
pivotal image and a pivotal moment in the
6:32
development of PETA as a global organisation.
6:36
This image, this image, tell us what this
6:40
image is all about and what impact it
6:46
had on the world.
6:48
Well, when we started PETA, I was already
6:51
a law enforcement officer and I had been
6:54
inside laboratories, big ones, the US Navy laboratory,
6:58
which became Walter Reed and is where the
7:02
presidents go to get their medical exams.
7:04
I'd been inside NIH's, their pride and joy
7:10
facility, their flagship facility in Poolsville, Maryland, where
7:14
they keep all the monkeys, but I hooked
7:17
up with a young man who came into
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the animal shelter where I was working and
7:23
when together we formed PETA because I figured
7:27
if people hadn't seen inside those places, they
7:31
hadn't read Animal Liberation, which was a pivotal
7:34
moment for me reading that book, they probably
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had no idea that the money they were
7:41
spending on household products and shampoo and shoes
7:45
and belts and food was going to hurt
7:47
animals that they really thought they cared about.
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So we formed the organisation.
7:52
He, Alex, his name was, didn't have any
7:55
experience with laboratories.
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He'd been out on a whaling ship or
8:00
an anti-whaling ship called the Sea Shepherd
8:02
and they had been tracking down whaling vessels
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and they actually sunk one.
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And so he had a wealth of experience.
8:11
He'd been in England disrupting fox hunts and
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so on.
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So I had a completely different set of
8:16
experiences, stopping trapping and working to end pet
8:22
shop cruelties and going into laboratories.
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So I thought, well, he should get some
8:27
experience.
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So we looked in the United States Department
8:30
of Agriculture list of the laboratories that have
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to be registered with the government, animal experimentation
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places.
8:39
And right near my apartment, there was one.
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It was called the Institute for Behavioural Research,
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which sounds really grand.
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Turned out to be basically a warehouse down
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a dirt road, just awful place.
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Nobody would ever find it.
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And he went along, knocked on the door
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and asked for a job.
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And they said, well, they didn't have any
9:03
jobs, but he could volunteer if he liked.
9:05
So he did.
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And when he went inside, he was able
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to take pictures.
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I would sit outside in a cardboard box
9:15
in a car to let him know with
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a Radio Shack walkie talkie if anyone was
9:20
coming so he could put the camera away.
9:23
And he would take pictures of what was
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happening to these poor monkeys.
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There was 17 macaque monkeys, 16 of whom
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had come from the Philippines, captured from the
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jungle.
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And they were in these, and one other
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one that was bred in captivity, a rhesus
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macaque.
9:41
They were in these tiny, rusted, broken wired
9:45
cages, barely bigger than their bodies.
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They couldn't stand up or stretch their arms.
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And they were missing most of their fingers.
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Because the experimenter, who Jane was, as you
9:59
know, a psychologist, he had no medical training,
10:02
no veterinary training at all, was getting a
10:05
lot of money from the federal government to
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open up their backs, perform surgery on them,
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deafferentate them, which means cutting some of the
10:16
nerves in their spines so that one or
10:19
both of their arms would be almost or
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totally useless.
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Then he would put them in this converted
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mini fridge that he had made into an
10:30
electrical device, and he would shock them to
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make them use their bad arms.
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This was all, this is all supposed to
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be to help people.
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This is the stated intent of his grant
10:43
application, to help people with therapy for stroke.
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I mean, can you imagine locking someone with
10:49
a stroke in a refrigerator and giving them
10:51
electric shocks if they don't use a bad
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arm?
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And he was- The whole thing is
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insane.
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It's insane.
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It's sociopathic.
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Yeah, and it still is.
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I mean, throughout the National Institutes of Health,
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which is where we have a massive campaign
11:07
now.
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I mean, Fauci was just before Congress, and
11:11
his boss was Francis Collins, still advises President
11:16
Biden, and they admitted.
11:19
They have no idea when they give money
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to a laboratory, overseas, for example, if there
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are any laws or regulations, and at this
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Silver Spring Lab, there were no inspections.
11:33
A U.S. Department of Agriculture man would
11:35
come, and he would sit and have coffee
11:37
in the front office, and he would never
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even go in the back and look at
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the monkeys in their cages.
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Oh my God.
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Jane, we found a barrel of dead monkeys
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with their arms bandaged up who had died
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of gangrene and other things because of no
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medical care.
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And if anyone thinks, oh, that must have
11:55
been an aberration, oh gosh, that sort of
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stuff doesn't go on, I inspected labs.
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I know it goes on, and it goes
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on today as if you go to peter
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.org, you'll see the videos.
12:06
You'll see the photographs.
12:07
You'll read about what they're getting money to
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do, and we just closed down a massive
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lab in Columbia, South America.
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I wanna talk to you about that, but
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first I wanna play a clip of Bill
12:21
Maher basically saying the same thing you're saying
12:24
on national television.
12:26
New rule, listen to PETA.
12:29
According to polls, the majority of people now
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agree with what PETA's been saying since 1980.
12:34
Experiments on animals are not only cruel, they
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don't work.
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95% of new medications that work when
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tested on animals fail in humans.
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95%.
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A drug tested on a mouse has about
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as much chance of making it to the
12:48
market as Joe Exotic has of seeing his
12:50
mullet come back in fashion.
12:53
Tax payers have spent billions funding junk science
12:57
like cutting open cats' skulls and deafening them
12:59
or tearing baby monkeys from their mothers and
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tormenting them with loud noises and rubber snakes,
13:05
all the while admitting that their work isn't
13:07
applicable to humans.
13:09
These are the sort of things that if
13:11
a child did them, you'd know they were
13:13
gonna grow up to be a serial killer.
13:15
And the National Institutes of Health that funds
13:18
these experiments, more like National Institutes of Hell.
13:23
Wow.
13:24
Well, I think he says it in a
13:27
very clever way, but he's making the exact
13:29
same point.
13:30
With artificial intelligence, organs on a chip and
13:35
all of the other advances technologically, are we
13:38
any closer to ending animal experimentation?
13:42
Well, there is some good news because the
13:45
Environmental Protection Agency, for example, the FDA, the
13:49
Food and Drug Administration, we've been hammering on
13:53
their front doors for a long time and
13:55
we've actually got ourselves onto some committees about
13:58
the use of animals in experimentation.
14:01
And they have made some pronouncements that in
14:04
certain areas like toxicity testing, poisoning, they're gonna
14:08
move away from the use of animals.
14:10
And a lot of industries have come behind
14:14
us to say, why should we have to
14:17
spend years and years testing on first mice,
14:21
then beagles, then monkeys before we release a
14:25
drug?
14:25
We have high-speed computers that we can
14:28
programme now with human information, not information from
14:33
a slug or a chicken or whatever they're
14:36
going to use.
14:37
And we've got state-of-the-art technology.
14:40
So let's not withhold good drugs and let's
14:43
not put bad ones on the market because
14:45
as you say, 95%, and it's actually a
14:49
little higher of drugs tested safe on other
14:52
species go on to give us side effects
14:56
like anaphylactic shock and even death.
14:58
So they're no good.
14:59
Let's move to state-of-the-art stuff.
15:01
But yes, we are slowly moving away.
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And it's vital that people do not give
15:08
up on their members of Congress because there
15:10
are bills now before Congress like the Cargo
15:13
Act that we need every member of Congress
15:16
to sign on to.
15:17
That would stop the importation of monkeys, for
15:20
example, from Vietnam and the Philippines and Cambodia
15:24
and all these places where they're caught in
15:26
the jungle.
15:27
They come in with diseases.
15:29
They are not quarantined properly anyway.
15:32
They live in hell and their babies are
15:35
taken away from them.
15:36
They're just breeding machines.
15:38
And they're just like us.
15:39
They're just like us.
15:41
So please, everybody get to your member of
15:44
Congress and don't take no for an answer.
15:47
And that's it, the Cargo Act.
15:49
We have to support the Cargo Act.
15:51
We've got some breaking news to tell you
15:54
about.
15:55
Just got this call just in from the
15:58
President of Social Compassion and Legislation, Judy Mancuso.
16:03
Judy has a positive breaking news story to
16:06
bring us live.
16:08
Tell us about it, Judy.
16:10
Hi.
16:11
Hi, Jane and happy birthday to Ingrid.
16:15
Well, we are co-sponsoring my group, Social
16:21
Compassion and Legislation, along with PETA, what's called
16:26
the Compassionate Advancements in Science Studies Act.
16:32
So that's the CLASS Act.
16:34
It's AB 2640.
16:36
And it just passed the California Senate Education
16:41
Committee with a unanimous vote of six to
16:44
zero.
16:45
Woo, congrats.
16:47
What's your reaction to that victory?
16:49
And can you tell us a little bit
16:50
about your thoughts regarding that legislation, Ingrid?
16:55
Well, first, hi to Judy, who does wonderful
16:58
work.
16:59
Everybody should support her group.
17:01
And she's put super legislation through the California
17:04
legislature.
17:05
Oh, we're delighted.
17:07
It just passed out of committee.
17:08
I think it's got one more to go,
17:09
but Judy would know more.
17:12
It's very important, I think, that children are
17:15
not desensitised.
17:17
And that's one of the reasons that we
17:19
went after Ringling so heavily.
17:22
People would say, oh, it's only so many
17:23
elephants.
17:24
And we would say, yes, but the last
17:26
thing that you want a child to see
17:28
is human beings dominating this wonderful wild creature
17:32
and making him stand on his head.
17:34
But it's the same thing with dissection.
17:37
Jane, it just drives me insane.
17:38
I have no idea who started the idea
17:41
that a child needs to see what's inside
17:43
a frog.
17:44
Nobody's going to grow up to be a
17:46
frog doctor, but they do.
17:48
And when I was in school, it was
17:49
a cow's eye, it was a cat, it
17:52
was a frog.
17:53
And we have been working diligently to say,
17:57
children need a choice at the very least.
18:00
Actually, all dissection should go because they're taking
18:04
frogs out of ponds in Louisiana.
18:07
There's a depletion of frogs and frogs are
18:10
the climate bellwethers.
18:12
They're taking cats from pounds that still release
18:16
them, or maybe they're taking barn cats that
18:18
are rounded up and given to them.
18:20
We've been inside the supply houses where they
18:23
inject them with formaldehyde and what have you.
18:25
They don't die a nice death.
18:27
And then all these other things.
18:29
So we say, we've been pushing the sin
18:32
frog and these other models, plastic models of
18:36
frogs.
18:37
If you're going to see inside a frog,
18:39
look inside a plastic one.
18:41
They have all the little organs.
18:43
You can take them out with your forceps.
18:45
There are no frog guts to dangle in
18:48
front of little girls and make them feel
18:49
sick.
18:50
There's no formaldehyde for you to inhale and
18:53
get ill and it's cheaper and you can
18:55
reuse them.
18:56
So there are practical reasons as well as
18:59
the ethical reasons to not desensitise kids.
19:03
Well, thank you, Judy Mancuso.
19:04
We're very excited about that victory.
19:06
Let's get to the finish line and pass
19:08
that law.
19:08
Thank you, social compassion and legislation.
19:11
So I wanna talk about some of the
19:14
other battles you're waging.
19:15
I actually interviewed recently somebody from PETA on
19:19
a battle to stop this new monkey breeding
19:26
facility.
19:27
It seems like every time we put one
19:30
down, they come up with another location where
19:32
they're trying to start it up again.
19:35
Can you talk a little bit about this
19:38
constant effort by the vivisection industry to create
19:45
laboratory monkey breeding facilities in the United States?
19:50
Two words, big business, a lot of money
19:54
to be made.
19:55
It's just like career experimenters and the people
19:57
who make the monkey chow and the monkey
19:59
cages and the monkey decapitators and the monkey
20:02
everything else.
20:03
They want to produce more monkeys so that
20:05
they can use them.
20:06
And this is why the Cargo Act is
20:09
so important is it stops one stream of
20:13
monkeys who are tortured overseas.
20:15
They go on days long, nights long journeys
20:19
in cargo holds of planes in wooden crates
20:22
with no food and water.
20:24
But they also are trying to breed them
20:27
once they get here.
20:28
And that's what we're trying to do in
20:31
Texas.
20:32
We've already started and in Georgia, big facility.
20:35
They have very secretly, quietly gone to see
20:39
the local government, got all their permits without
20:43
saying a word to the residents who would
20:46
find suddenly a 30,000 monkey facility on
20:50
their doorstep.
20:52
You know, you think of all, if you
20:53
want to look at practical issues, the disease
20:56
risk, I mean, Ebola came in on monkeys.
20:59
Everybody knows you get Ebola, you're gone.
21:02
We've had all sorts of other dangerous diseases
21:05
like the Marburg virus come in with monkeys.
21:08
We are primates, they're primates.
21:11
It's very, very easy for these diseases, which
21:15
can be fatal to cross the species barrier.
21:17
They also carry tuberculosis, the human variety of
21:21
tuberculosis.
21:22
So there are good reasons that the people
21:25
in Georgia who we have now alerted to
21:28
the fact that these sneaky people were coming
21:31
in to build the lab are up in
21:33
arms.
21:34
And at the moment there is a stalemate
21:36
and we hope to win.
21:38
We hope the citizens of Georgia are able
21:40
to keep this place out.
21:42
Then yes, they'll try to pop it up
21:45
somewhere else.
21:46
They tried to pop it up in Texas
21:47
and we stopped it there.
21:49
They tried to pop it up overseas in
21:52
St. Kitts or somewhere and we stopped it
21:54
there.
21:54
I think you were a great help there.
21:57
Where was that?
21:57
I can't remember the island.
21:58
Puerto Rico.
21:59
Puerto Rico, it was Puerto Rico.
22:01
So it's big money.
22:03
And everybody I think remembers the In Vigo
22:07
Beagles in Virginia.
22:09
We had an undercover agent who went in
22:12
and got the dirt on them, 350 puppies
22:15
dead in the drainage ditches or for other
22:18
reasons, mothers going without food, the whole gamut.
22:23
The same characters who have now been forced
22:27
to close that facility, forced to give up
22:30
the over 4,000 beagles and they're all
22:33
in good homes now.
22:34
It's just wonderful.
22:35
Great cooperative effort from humane societies everywhere.
22:39
They, some of them are involved in these
22:42
other facilities.
22:44
In Vigo isn't finished.
22:46
It's got other irons in the fire with
22:48
other exploitive facilities around the country and around
22:52
the world getting government money.
22:54
So we all need to be very aware
22:57
and we all need to just look at
22:58
the very simple facts on peter.org for
23:01
the Cargo Act for this primate facility in
23:04
Georgia.
23:05
And please, please get to your representatives.
23:09
And again, do not take no for an
23:11
answer.
23:11
They will fob you off and you need
23:13
to come right back and say, I'm a
23:15
citizen, I have a vote.
23:16
I've got friends.
23:17
I'll get my friends and my family and
23:19
my coworkers involved.
23:20
And we want you to stop this bleeding
23:25
of money from NIH into animal experiments that
23:28
go nowhere that have a 95% failure
23:31
rate and cost the taxpayer billions of dollars
23:35
a year and a lot of grief for
23:37
the animals.
23:38
Well, I also just read an article yesterday
23:40
about how artificial intelligence is revolutionising drug research
23:46
and they can take all the information that's
23:49
ever been gathered on any drug and put
23:51
it into a formula.
23:52
And it was a fascinating article.
23:54
And I was looking at this going there.
23:56
I mean, animal experimentation is mediaeval at best
23:59
compared to these high-tech systems that can
24:03
come up with solutions and analyse in a
24:06
moment what would take people years to do
24:08
by hand.
24:09
It just brought home how backward the NIH
24:14
is for still continuing to try to push
24:16
animal experimentation.
24:18
And of course, the universities, they get money.
24:21
That's why they push it.
24:22
It's easy to get a grant when you
24:24
show, oh, it's gonna cause 50% of
24:26
the animals tested to die.
24:28
It doesn't take any really creative thinking to
24:32
do those kinds of tests.
24:34
So I will just say one more time.
24:38
Yesterday, I heard somebody, an animal activist say,
24:41
if every single person who is vegan became
24:45
an activist, we could achieve animal liberation tomorrow.
24:48
I think that there's a lot of truth
24:51
to that statement.
24:52
Maybe it's not tomorrow, maybe it's the day
24:54
after tomorrow, but how do you do it?
24:56
Because there are so many people out there
24:58
who are waking up, they're going vegan, they're
25:00
going plant-based, they love animals, but it
25:04
can be tough being an activist.
25:07
How do you do it?
25:09
This is your 75th birthday.
25:11
You're celebrating your birthday with us.
25:13
We're so honoured.
25:14
Give us some pointers for all the activists
25:17
out there and all the people who are
25:18
maybe afraid to become activists.
25:20
How the heck have you been able to
25:21
do this for so many years without burnout?
25:24
Oh, I can't imagine burnout because there's so
25:27
much work to be done.
25:29
And I have the luxury perhaps of looking
25:31
back and seeing how far we've come, which
25:33
is how you started the show, is that
25:36
I see progress, enormous progress, but I also
25:39
see the mountain to climb in front of
25:41
me.
25:41
And so I get up every morning thinking,
25:44
gosh, there's a lot to do today.
25:46
So there's no time to spare.
25:48
But I think you also hit on something
25:49
else.
25:50
There is irrational fear in people that they
25:55
don't want to stick their head above the
25:57
parapet.
25:58
They don't want to say something.
26:02
They're afraid of what?
26:05
Remember during the fur wars, and we always
26:08
said to people, we can get rid of
26:10
fur.
26:10
You just need to say something to anyone
26:13
you see wearing it.
26:14
And there were people in fur everywhere.
26:17
So people said, oh, I don't know.
26:19
I can't say anything.
26:21
You said, what's the worst that can happen?
26:22
You say politely to somebody, if you like,
26:26
excuse me, I used to have a fur.
26:28
I know you think it's beautiful, but if
26:31
you could see the blood and the guts
26:33
and how animals are suffering and the steel
26:34
traps and the fur.
26:36
And even if they say go to hell
26:38
or something much worse, who cares?
26:42
It's just words.
26:43
It doesn't hurt you.
26:45
And you have done something wonderful.
26:48
Animals who were killed for fur couldn't say
26:50
anything themselves.
26:52
The animals in the future who would be
26:53
killed for fur couldn't say anything, but you
26:55
have used the act, never be silent.
26:59
You've used your voice.
27:01
You've got a voice.
27:02
In many countries, you don't have a voice.
27:04
We have the luxury of that.
27:06
Say something.
27:07
You can do it so nicely.
27:09
When you go to a party, when you're
27:11
out with friends, if someone's ordering or buying
27:14
something, you could say, by the way, you
27:17
know, that does involve animal suffering.
27:20
And I know you don't want to hear
27:21
this, but I didn't want to hear it
27:23
when someone told me the first time, but
27:25
I'm glad they did.
27:26
So forgive me, but I'm going to tell
27:28
you how that comes about.
27:30
And I'm going to give you an option
27:31
and maybe you'll take it.
27:33
You know, it's up to you, but please,
27:34
so at least you're saying something.
27:37
It doesn't take any more time if you're
27:40
going to the grocery store or the gym
27:42
to take, and we give them free, free
27:45
newsletters, vegan starter kits, and leave them in
27:49
the magazine rack, leave them on the table.
27:52
There are so many things that you can
27:55
do every single day.
27:56
I try to do five things a day
27:58
outside my work.
28:01
You know, going to work, coming back from
28:03
work, speaking to somebody on the elevator.
28:05
There are so many things, leaving a sticker,
28:08
putting a sticker on the little library.
28:12
And let me say this, for those who
28:15
are afraid of just mentioning to somebody, please
28:18
don't wear fur.
28:19
There are others who really go out on
28:21
a limb thanks to encouragement from PETA.
28:26
Check this out.
28:28
Coach Runway, New York Fashion Week, Leather Kills.
28:31
These two activists jumped on the runway.
28:35
Anna Wintour and all the other fashionistas were
28:37
right there, and they strutted the runway with
28:40
a PETA sign, Coach Leather Kills.
28:44
And this got so many headlines.
28:47
So if you're afraid of just speaking up
28:49
politely to a friend or neighbour, imagine the
28:53
guts it took to do this, the world
28:55
watching, jumping on the stage.
28:58
Nonviolent, nothing's destroyed, just walking the runway with
29:03
a powerful message, speaking truth to power, and
29:07
watch how she gets tackled in just one
29:09
second.
29:09
It's coming up.
29:11
Oh, there she is.
29:12
She's grabbed.
29:13
That's Jamie Logan, who has a lot of
29:16
shows on Unchained TV, as well as the
29:18
PETA channel on Unchained TV.
29:20
So tell us about that, about how you,
29:24
I'll give you one more example, PETA goes
29:28
out on a limb to do provocative demonstrations.
29:32
This is an anti-leather demonstration where they've
29:37
poured what appears to be tar on their
29:40
bodies.
29:41
Turns out it's molasses.
29:44
What's the inspiration behind all this, Ingrid?
29:47
Well, you know, I said the very simple
29:50
things that people can do, because anyone and
29:53
everyone can do that.
29:54
But I adore our girls.
29:57
I shouldn't just call them girls, I suppose,
29:59
but to me, they're my girls.
30:01
I adore these girls who get on the
30:03
runway.
30:04
It was Victoria Beckham's too, and it was
30:06
others that they did, H&M and so
30:09
on, and Paris and London and New York,
30:11
all over.
30:12
We liked people to do outrageous things.
30:16
They're not so outrageous when you compare them
30:18
to what happens to animals, which is truly
30:20
outrageous.
30:21
Sit in a cage, drag yourself somewhere, lock
30:24
yourself to a doorway.
30:25
We've done so many things, set fire to
30:27
cars that were donated to us so that
30:30
we could stop experiments on pigs and baboons
30:32
who were used in old car crash experiments.
30:36
But, you know, people, if you feel strongly,
30:40
don't just bottle it up.
30:41
Don't just be vegan yourself.
30:43
Being vegan yourself is not enough.
30:45
It's just a step.
30:47
We can't grow our movement if you sit
30:49
at home and eat vegan food.
30:51
You need to bring other people into the
30:53
movement, and that's why we have all the
30:54
videos and the pamphlets and the stickers and
30:58
everything else, and you have your voice.
31:00
But it's wonderful to see activism.
31:03
It's vital to see activism, and what you
31:06
said is right.
31:07
If each of us converted five people, or
31:10
each of us spent time really agitating in
31:15
nice ways or in pushy ways, who cares,
31:19
we would be able to get the animal
31:22
liberation going.
31:23
We would be able to get the animals
31:25
out, and we wouldn't have to settle for
31:29
a slightly bigger cage, a slightly longer chain,
31:32
you know, slightly less cruel procedure.
31:35
We need them out.
31:37
We need liberation for the animals.
31:39
They are us.
31:40
They are the same as us.
31:43
It's only our prejudice, our feelings of superiority,
31:46
which are totally false.
31:48
If you learn anything about bats or snakes
31:51
or insects, these animals we despise often, you
31:55
find out jaw-dropping facts about their abilities,
31:59
their talents, their thinking, their altruism, everything else.
32:03
We are garbage compared to so many species'
32:07
abilities.
32:08
I wanna ask you a tough question because
32:11
I think it's one that a lot of
32:13
activists grapple with.
32:14
You know, there are days where I say,
32:17
yeah, wow, we're winning, blah, blah, but there
32:19
are other days, whether it's an encounter with
32:21
somebody who you're close to, who no matter
32:24
what you say, continues to insist on serving
32:28
dead animals at their functions, or certain things
32:34
that just make you deflated.
32:36
Do you experience that?
32:38
And do you ever get like, do you
32:41
ever feel hopeless?
32:42
You know, I mean, it doesn't last long,
32:45
but there are times where it's just like,
32:48
what's it gonna take to wake people up?
32:51
What's it gonna take?
32:53
Yeah, this species makes me despondent and I'm
32:57
a member of it.
32:58
And I think, as I said, what a
33:00
slow learner I was.
33:01
So I don't despair because I look at
33:04
myself and I know all the things that
33:06
I did.
33:06
I wanted to be a falconer.
33:07
My uncle had falcons that he hunted with
33:12
and I thought how glamorous, how exotic, how
33:14
wonderful.
33:15
I went fishing.
33:16
I went deep sea fishing.
33:17
I mean, I did everything.
33:19
And what was it?
33:21
For me, it was a heart matter.
33:24
It was seeing animals suffer that I hadn't
33:26
seen and suddenly thinking, what in God's name
33:29
am I doing to cause suffering like this?
33:32
But for other people to tell if it's
33:33
the environment, you don't know what will ping
33:36
them into consciousness.
33:37
So you have to keep going and you
33:39
have to keep trying angles.
33:41
And I have somebody I knew years ago.
33:45
His name was Michael Handley.
33:46
He was an NRA spokesperson.
33:49
He found a dog.
33:50
It was just before the internet or before
33:52
cell phones.
33:53
He found a dog who'd been hit by
33:54
a car.
33:55
And he was desperately, he was on the
33:57
Beltway in Washington.
33:58
He didn't know which county he was in.
34:00
Was he in Prince George's or Montgomery?
34:03
And so he had to go off the
34:05
Beltway, find a call booth, call the local
34:08
police.
34:09
They said they didn't help.
34:10
Call animal control.
34:11
It was closed.
34:12
Try and find in the yellow pages a
34:14
veterinarian.
34:15
So he came to me at the Washington
34:17
Humane Society at the time and he said,
34:19
I will pay for a commercial and I'll
34:22
appear in it and I'll give one number
34:24
for people so if they find an animal
34:26
in trouble, they can call and you have
34:27
an answering service and take care of it.
34:29
I did.
34:30
He made such fun of me for being
34:32
a vegetarian.
34:33
All he cared about was dogs.
34:35
He worked for the NRA.
34:36
He was a racist.
34:37
He was just an incredible challenge.
34:41
By the time he died, he had raised
34:43
a 17-year-old vegan son.
34:47
He spoke out against fishing.
34:50
He had resigned from the NRA.
34:52
He himself was a vegan.
34:54
He wouldn't use anything that came from animals.
34:57
If you had ever said, here's a hopeless
34:59
case, Mike was a hopeless case.
35:01
But it worked in the end.
35:04
Well, I think you raise an important point.
35:06
I've heard people say that it's the people
35:09
who fight you the most vigorously who may
35:13
be the most open to change because it's
35:16
a defence mechanism so they're pushing back.
35:19
No, you're not gonna change me but it's
35:22
the people who absolutely have no reaction that
35:25
you really have to worry about.
35:27
Through your years of activism, PETA founded 44
35:32
years ago.
35:33
You launched the world's most powerful animal rights
35:36
organisation.
35:37
Have you made any observations or conclusions about
35:42
what personality types are low-hanging fruit?
35:47
Actually, that's a very tough question because Mike,
35:51
I would have said, was the highest hanging
35:52
fruit you could get.
35:55
I don't know because I've seen almost everybody
35:58
change for one reason or the other with
36:01
no particular type.
36:03
I mean, people say, oh, well, liberals, they're
36:06
gonna be, no, I find more Republicans, if
36:09
anything, in Congress who are against animal experimentation
36:13
and more Democrats who are in favour of
36:15
veganism.
36:16
And they both involve horrendous suffering of animals.
36:20
So it's not that, I honestly don't know.
36:23
And people say an old dog can't learn
36:25
new tricks and yet you find here's Ruth
36:29
Heydrich becoming a vegan that whatever she was,
36:32
70 or something.
36:33
And I find those things every day.
36:36
And kids, of course, if you don't desensitise
36:39
them, maybe they're the low-hanging fruit because
36:43
they've got many years ahead of them if
36:44
you can change them early, so that's good.
36:47
But also because, maybe because they're small, that
36:50
they relate to animals.
36:52
Maybe because they're not listened to as much,
36:55
they relate to animals.
36:57
And it's only when they grow up and
36:59
they're taken aside by career or money or
37:03
the way culture is or who their loved
37:06
one, what they think, that they start to
37:09
change and become a little bit cold.
37:12
So everybody is fair game.
37:15
Don't give up on anybody, go for it.
37:18
That's what I say.
37:19
When people say, what's your target audience?
37:21
I say people who eat food.
37:23
Speaking of food, the vast majority of animals
37:27
killed for food are chickens.
37:29
If we could just get people off chickens,
37:32
we would literally be able to reduce by
37:36
more than three quarters the number of animals
37:37
killed.
37:38
You've spoken about this.
37:40
For my 75th birthday, may I ask you
37:42
to do one thing?
37:44
Don't eat chickens or eggs.
37:46
And in one year, I believe that you
37:48
will have saved the lives of about 20
37:51
of these dear, wonderful little birds.
37:54
And can you please decide to feed vegan
37:57
chicken salad, vegan hard-boiled eggs, maybe vegan
38:00
scramble to non-vegans.
38:02
Post our chicken in reverse or other videos
38:05
on your social media pages and talk to
38:08
people about the fantasy of cage-free eggs
38:12
so that other people can save chickens too.
38:15
That way, you'll have soon saved 75 of
38:18
them.
38:23
What a great video.
38:24
What can we do about chickens as I
38:27
drive down the Miracle Miles and I see
38:30
Chick-fil-A and all the other chicken
38:33
-centric fast food joints?
38:36
I just, that's the kind of moment that
38:39
gets me a little overwhelmed.
38:41
Like, how are we going to handle this?
38:43
But then I realised that when change happens,
38:46
it happens very rapidly.
38:48
Looking back at some old documentaries, you see
38:51
the moment where cars entered the picture and
38:53
since time immemorial, people were getting from point
38:56
A to point B on horseback.
38:59
And then in a very tiny period of
39:02
time, you saw the streets change radically where
39:06
the horse was the outlier and it was
39:09
all cars.
39:10
Yeah, you've got to certainly speak to store
39:13
managers, to fast food outlets, go online, speak
39:16
to them there.
39:17
Ask them when they're getting faux chicken.
39:19
You know, in England, you can get it.
39:21
The KFC in England, as soon as I
39:23
get off the plane, I don't go to
39:25
some gourmet place.
39:26
I go to the KFC and get a
39:28
faux chicken sandwich because they're just so great.
39:31
But all these things, Gardein has chicken nuggets
39:35
and they're there.
39:37
But if we are the squeaky wheels, we
39:39
are consumers.
39:41
Our purse, our pocketbooks count.
39:44
Everybody's looking at us to see what we're
39:45
going to buy.
39:46
So we need to make sure they know
39:47
we'll be there if you sell it.
39:50
But I think the big thing, as I
39:52
said in that video, Jane, is vegans shouldn't
39:56
just be talking to other vegans and looking
39:58
after their own interests.
40:00
We need to find people who are getting
40:02
the chicken salad or getting the chicken drumsticks
40:07
and talk to them.
40:09
We were talking to United Airlines for a
40:11
long time.
40:12
I was just on a United Airlines flight
40:15
back from Europe and they, and this is
40:17
the second one that I was on in
40:19
two weeks or so, and they had the
40:22
meal option.
40:23
Meal option is always beef or chicken, beef
40:26
or chicken.
40:27
And this time, of course, it was chicken,
40:29
but it was also a vegetarian option, which
40:33
was a lasagna.
40:34
I mean, I'm against dairy, but there you
40:36
are.
40:36
We've come a step.
40:37
And I thought, you know, it's moving.
40:40
The needle is moving, but agitation, asking for
40:44
the special meal if you fly, asking on
40:46
the website for, you just got to say
40:50
what you want and push and educate others
40:52
to get it and feed the non-vegans,
40:55
feed the people who are buying the chicken
40:57
meat.
40:58
Give them the Gardein stuff and say, look,
41:01
it's so much better for your health, your
41:02
arteries, the earth, the chickens, whatever moves you.
41:06
Well, so many things to respond to with
41:10
that.
41:10
There is an ongoing coordinated multimillion dollar campaign
41:14
by the meat industry.
41:16
It's been documented in a Gardein article.
41:19
It's been documented by a new, more than
41:21
100 page report by the Freedom Food Alliance.
41:26
They are trying to demonise a plant-based
41:30
meat as processed or ultra processed, not mentioning
41:34
that processed meat from animals is officially cancer
41:38
causing according to the World Health Organisation.
41:41
What's your response to that?
41:43
Is PETA doing anything to counteract that campaign?
41:46
Yes, and a bunch of other stupid campaigns
41:49
that these frat boys come up with.
41:51
The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine, I think
41:54
this week is issuing some videos about how
41:59
processed regular meat that comes from cows and
42:02
chickens is.
42:04
I mean, the cow and the chicken is
42:05
a processing machine and there are hormones in
42:08
it.
42:08
There are chemicals in it.
42:10
The fat is put in from the chicken.
42:14
The fibre is taken out.
42:15
It's just, it's such a ludicrous thing.
42:18
It reminds me of when, during the fur
42:20
wars again, that the furriers came up with
42:23
this great thing.
42:24
We don't use any fur from endangered species.
42:28
Well, nobody said you didn't, nobody cares anyway.
42:31
We just, all animals, thank you.
42:33
So they're always coming up.
42:34
They're now trying to ban in vitro meat
42:37
before it's a real thing.
42:39
I mean, it's not in the supermarkets.
42:40
It's not in the restaurants, except for an
42:42
occasional very elite taste testing, but they're trying
42:46
to ban it.
42:46
They've already banned it in Florida, I think.
42:49
So this reactionary kowtowing to the Cattlemen's Association,
42:55
worrying about what's woke and what's traditional, all
42:58
this sort of rubbish.
42:59
And it's so easy to combat because everything
43:02
they say is gibberish.
43:03
And it's so easy to just say, no,
43:07
actually, what you're eating is not only highly
43:10
processed, but no matter whether it's bologna or
43:14
it's a chicken thigh, it's processed.
43:17
And it also has no fibre.
43:20
It has tonnes of cholesterol.
43:22
It's gonna clog your arteries and eventually animals
43:24
will bite back and kill you.
43:27
One of the things that highlights, Peta, is
43:31
you're going out on a limb with creative,
43:35
controversial campaigns that attempt to wake people up.
43:39
And critics of Peta love to throw the,
43:44
oh, red paint thing, like anybody at Peta
43:47
has thrown red paint for 40 years, if
43:49
you ever did it.
43:51
But I always respond by saying, look, they
43:53
have something like 19 lawyers.
43:55
They file lawsuits.
43:56
They issue Freedom of Information Act requests.
43:59
They put out in-depth news releases that
44:02
I read.
44:02
They don't get covered by mainstream media.
44:05
It's almost like you have to get naked
44:06
or you have to get arrested in order
44:09
to get mainstream news media coverage of this
44:12
issue.
44:13
And the reason, of course, is look at
44:15
the advertisers on mainstream media, meat, dairy, and
44:17
pharmaceuticals, okay?
44:19
So you do very creative things.
44:22
I'll just play one that you just have
44:25
going right now.
44:26
We got this from a volunteer, a member
44:32
of our team in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
44:34
We've been giving away vegan hot dogs.
44:38
We've been giving away vegan hot dogs and
44:40
they're going like hotcakes.
44:42
We've only got 20 left.
44:44
We've got a bit of 150 in five
44:46
seconds flat.
44:47
And I am gonna eat one before they're
44:49
all gone.
45:08
So this truck was outside a rib festival.
45:12
Tell us about that strategy, Ingrid.
45:15
Well, you're right that nowadays it's very hard
45:19
to get serious discussion going.
45:21
You have to have gimmickry.
45:23
You have to have sex or controversy, confrontation,
45:27
and so on.
45:27
So people are always astonished when they hear
45:30
how many scientists we have, how many lawyers
45:32
we have, how many undercover investigations, how many
45:38
everything other than a catchy demonstration, which is
45:41
interesting to look at.
45:43
We have our pig truck, Hell on Wheels.
45:46
We have chicken trucks, Hell on Wheels, that
45:49
are going around the country to rib fests,
45:52
to hot dog eating contests, to hot dog
45:55
and hamburger outlets.
45:56
And they all have soundtracks.
45:59
So you hear the pigs screaming and those
46:01
are real pigs screaming.
46:02
That's an audio recording.
46:04
You hear the chickens crying and being upset.
46:08
And we drive around, people look at it,
46:10
and it says at the bottom, after you've
46:12
stared at it, you'll see, it says, if
46:15
this upsets you, please go vegan.
46:17
And there are vegan starter kits there for
46:19
people and we hand them out.
46:21
So it's gimmickry because otherwise you can't get
46:24
people to turn around and look in this
46:26
day and age of so much competing for
46:30
everyone's attention.
46:31
What would you say to the mainstream media?
46:35
I was in the mainstream media for more
46:37
than 30 years.
46:38
And I know having been behind the curtain,
46:41
it's just incredibly slanted against plant-based because
46:45
of the advertisers who keep the lights on,
46:47
meat dairy and pharmaceuticals, also because a lot
46:50
of the people who are deciding what's news
46:52
are not vegans, they're meat eaters.
46:54
And so they ignore stories, important stories that
47:00
talk about the benefits of a plant-based
47:04
diet, for example, reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
47:08
They completely ignore it.
47:10
The New York Times did a story that
47:11
said that people who go from being heavy
47:14
meat eaters to plant-based can reduce their
47:17
greenhouse gas emissions by 75%.
47:21
I thought, surely, it's in the New York
47:22
Times, it's an Oxford University study.
47:25
They'll cover that, right?
47:26
No, once again, disappointed.
47:29
I mean, how bankrupt has the media become
47:32
on this issue?
47:33
Well, we try, as you know, to run
47:36
commercials and then they're mild because we know
47:39
we can't get the gory ones on, the
47:41
real life things, the real life pictures and
47:44
so on and videos that we have.
47:47
We try to get them on major networks,
47:51
national networks, and we'll pay top dollar and
47:53
they won't take them because they know that
47:55
we are a one-off advertiser or a
47:58
few-time advertiser, whereas Butterball and all these
48:03
other companies are going to put money in
48:05
their pockets.
48:06
And media is hurting at the moment, as
48:08
you know, and people aren't watching TV news,
48:11
they're watching on the internet.
48:13
Newspapers have lost so many reporters.
48:16
It's very, very hard.
48:17
And that, I think, comes back to why
48:20
it is beyond important that people use their
48:24
own voices, their own social media platforms, that
48:27
they talk to everybody and that they show
48:30
the videos and they get the facts out
48:32
there.
48:32
We have an ad now that says, you
48:35
know, if you're talking about, you say you're
48:37
an environmentalist, if you still eat meat or
48:40
eat dairy, put a cork in it, and
48:42
it's a picture of the earth.
48:45
I mean, just be quiet if you say
48:47
you're an environmentalist but you still eat animals
48:49
and dairy products, dairy is worse, of course,
48:51
than meat.
48:52
Yes, another major frustration, people who say they're
48:56
environmentalists and they're having organisational meetings and they're
49:00
serving meat.
49:02
You know, you raise the point of, it's
49:04
important for every one of us to use
49:06
our voice.
49:07
With 8.1 billion humans on the planet,
49:10
we can't hope to talk to them all
49:12
individually, which is why I started Unchained TV,
49:16
the world's only vegan streaming television network.
49:19
This is my opportunity to urge everyone watching,
49:22
please download Unchained TV, it's absolutely 100%
49:25
free, takes a second to go to your
49:27
app store on your phone and download it,
49:29
you can also watch it online and you
49:31
can watch it on any Samsung TV and
49:32
any TV if you've got an Amazon Fire
49:35
Stick, a Roku device or an Apple TV
49:37
device.
49:38
So it's a vegan Netflix.
49:40
Okay, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
49:42
I love Unchained TV.
49:43
Unchained, Unchained TV, your life will change, it's
49:46
just that easy.
49:47
Unchained TV has all sorts of content for
49:50
everybody.
49:51
Unchained TV changed my life.
49:53
Unchained TV is crushing it.
49:56
I love Unchained TV.
49:58
Unchained TV is my go-to.
50:00
Unchained TV, who knew?
50:02
Unchained, baby, yeah!
50:10
Yes, and that last lady was the director
50:12
of the Twilight series and she actually said
50:16
that she made some of her characters vegetarian,
50:19
that's vegetarian, but to encourage people from not
50:24
eating animals.
50:25
So we only have a couple of minutes
50:28
left.
50:29
What is the future?
50:30
What does the future hold, Ingrid?
50:33
I think the future depends on everybody watching
50:36
and everybody they know.
50:37
You hold the key to the future.
50:39
You know, Jane, you've got these fabulous talents.
50:42
Everybody has some fabulous talents.
50:44
I'm basically talentless, but I'm enthusiastic.
50:47
And everybody can get out there and make
50:50
this happen.
50:52
And that will be our future of animals
50:54
still in chains and cages.
50:56
I mean, we've even got dogs out in
50:58
this extreme heat on a chain in the
51:02
backyard in a dirt patch in their own
51:04
urine.
51:04
I mean, if we can't get with our
51:06
legislators locally and get that banned, come on,
51:09
there's something that will call to you, something
51:12
you can do.
51:12
Never sit home and think, there's nothing I
51:15
can do.
51:15
I'm only one person, one person, one person.
51:19
I wrote a book called, One Can Make
51:22
a Difference.
51:23
And you are that one.
51:24
Every single person listening is that one.
51:26
So thank you, Jane, for having this fantastic,
51:29
phenomenal podcast.
51:30
You are changing the world and everybody can.
51:33
We all can.
51:35
Well, you fill me with hope.
51:36
I'm gonna get all teary-eyed because you
51:39
are my hero.
51:41
I often say to myself, what would Ingrid
51:44
Newkirk do?
51:45
And I'm not joking, because your consistency, your
51:49
relentlessness, your strategic brilliance.
51:54
I mean, everybody, it's easy to be an
51:57
activist if you go on PETA's website, sign
52:00
up for these alerts.
52:02
I get them on my phone and I
52:03
literally, I stop whatever I'm doing.
52:05
If I get them on my email or
52:07
I get them on my phone, because I
52:08
know I can get to the finish line
52:11
and reach somebody important with, just like this,
52:16
bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
52:18
In fact, for your 75th birthday, you have
52:21
an entire way that people can do this.
52:23
It's very simple and we'll just put this
52:26
up so everybody can just go to PETA
52:28
.org forward slash 75.
52:32
And what it does is, if you wanna
52:35
celebrate Ingrid Newkirk's birthday, she's 75 years young,
52:39
you can take these actions by going to
52:43
that PETA.org forward slash 75.
52:46
And it's so easy.
52:48
I literally clicked bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
52:51
And then I got all these notifications on
52:54
my email.
52:55
Thank you for doing this.
52:56
Thank you for doing that.
52:57
Thank you for doing this.
52:59
Thank you for doing that.
53:00
You know, it doesn't require you going out
53:04
and getting sweaty and having a confrontation with
53:07
somebody.
53:07
PETA's doing all the heavy lifting.
53:10
All you need to do is sign up
53:12
and be part of their rapid response team.
53:16
And it's super fun.
53:17
I feel very empowered.
53:19
Like if I'm struggling with a project one
53:21
day and then I get this and I
53:23
go bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, I already
53:25
feel like, okay, I've accomplished something.
53:27
It energises me to move forward.
53:28
So I just wanna say thank you, Ingrid
53:31
Newkirk, for starting PETA, for your 44 years
53:37
of relentless activism as the head of PETA.
53:41
And I just urge everybody, I wish we
53:44
could all get together and sing happy birthday
53:47
to you.
53:48
And many more.
53:51
Talk to you soon.
53:53
Thank you, Jane.
53:54
Thank you.
53:55
Bye.