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DDH - The Biggest "E" · Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast

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History's strange, it's alien, and it won't give us what we
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would like to have. Richmond Transmission and Auto
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Service. This our sponsor of the program.
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It's the third hour of a Tuesday on this 24th of September, 2024,
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and that means it's time for Dave.
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Does history on Bill Mick live? We'll dispense with deepfakes
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because we've been living there all morning, and we'll get into
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some actual history. Dave.
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We're taking on the USS Enterprise today, not that one,
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but we'll take on the one that we have.
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By this day in 1959 in Kearny, NJ, the United States Navy's
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finest warship was meeting her final fate.
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USS Enterprise, the 6th aircraft carrier built by the United
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States, was put to the torch and she was scrapped as she had
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served in every major battle of the Pacific War.
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She had been Admiral Halsey's flagship, survived numerous hits
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and damage that had seen other, let's just call them lesser
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ships, succumb to their wounds. No US carrier had served the
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Navy with more success in the hours after the attack on Pearl
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Harbor. It was her planes that was
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searching the ocean north of Hawaii, trying to catch the
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Japanese before they could escape.
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Her planes had guarded the USS Hornet as Billy Mitchell's B20
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Fives swept off those decks to bomb Japan in April of 1942.
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And it was just two months later that her pilots, the
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Enterprise's pilots, were crucial in their attack on the
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same Japanese carriers, this time caught flat footed and
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destroyed at the Battle of Midway, the turning point in the
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Pacific War. During the fight for
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Guadalcanal, she supported the Marines ashore.
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And indeed, on several occasions she would find herself alone,
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representing the entirety of the United States Navy carrier force
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in that fight to secure the island.
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In October of 1942, she joined her sister ship again the
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Hornet, in one of the most vicious carrier battles of the
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war. The Santa Cruz Islands Hornet
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would be lost in that fight and Enterprise would take one of the
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most famous bomb hits in history and still fight on.
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She was there throughout the highland hopping campaigns of
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1944 and into the kamikaze raids of the final months of the war.
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And on May 14th, 1945, she was hit by a kamikaze that destroyed
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her forward sections and killed 14 members of her crew.
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After being repaired right here down the road in Bremerton, she
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returned to the Pacific Theater to carry thousands of GIS home
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as part of Operation Magic Carpet.
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But by the end of the war, time had literally passed her by.
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Even by World War 2 standards, she was pretty much obsolete.
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Her sister Saratoga had been sent to the bottom of Bikini
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Lagoon in the atomic bomb test, but Enterprise was saved, at
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least for the moment. Her beloved status as Halsey's
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flagship and her hard fighting kept her in the forefront of
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America's love for her past heroes.
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But time was still passing. Her fate was sealed when efforts
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to raise funds to save her fell short.
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She was struck from the Navy's register, sold for scrapping,
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and waited. Her fate in New Jersey as she
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quietly rested and waited. The next pier over United States
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Navy was building one of the first generations of the Super
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carriers, and just over 400 miles to the South, the keel had
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been laid. Construction had begun on a new
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type of warship, not just a super carrier, but a ship
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powered by the power of the universe, the Atom.
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This ship would rise to become the most famous ship warship in
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the world. But she needed a name.
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A name that would evoke the history of the United States
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Navy. A name that would speak of
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power, of glory. A name that would carry the
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tradition forward. And as carrier #6 the famed
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World War 2 carrier, Enterprise made her way to the ship's
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Breakers. This new ship took up her name
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and began her legacy of service to our nation.
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USS Enterprise would once again sail the ocean and on one really
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dark night, she would be there when I needed her most.
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Dave Enterprise is the name that's renowned in Navy circles,
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and it looks like it continues to be that way based on what
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you're telling us here. Enterprise may be the most
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important name in United States naval history.
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Of course, we've had multiple ships named Enterprise, and
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there's rarely a time in U.S. Navy history when we don't have
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one. In fact, right now is one of the
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rare moments, although we are building a new one.
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So Enterprise is that name. And of course, you know, for us
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Trekkies, Enterprises is the big name anyway, and that ship was
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actually named after the Enterprise.
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So so there you go. The in the post World War Two
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world, as things began to change, the Cold War began
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heating up and this military expansion began.
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And the idea of the Super carrier, these, these massive
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aircraft carriers waiting between 80,000 and 100,000 tons
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of just power projection, that's what they are.
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Those were big enough. But with the rise of nuclear
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power, sorry, atomic power, as successfully shown in the USS
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Nautilus submarine, it wasn't long before someone realized
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that, hey, what if we built an aircraft carrier with these
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nuclear reactors in them? So they designed Enterprise and
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and as the first one, she had kind of kind of a strange
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reactor setup. Most carriers today have two
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reactors. She had eight and this would
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provide a great deal of a power and an interesting setup.
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Of course it would cause some problems today with with
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decommissioning her because they don't know what to do with it,
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but but this was a new way of doing it.
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They also, because the because she was atomic powered, they
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could, they could do some things with the arrangement of the deck
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that were much different than they had done before #1 her
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island structure, the superstructure that sticks up
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off the deck is much smaller than the other super carriers
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because she doesn't need a smokestack.
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She doesn't need all those kinds of things to to exhaust those
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the engines. So they may were able to make
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that smaller, which meant that she had more deck space, which
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meant that not only is she at bigger longer, but she can carry
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more airplanes, which of course, in the world of aircraft
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carriers is that's the that's the, the gold standards.
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How many airplanes can you carry?
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Enterprise, The new Enterprise, which was launched this day in
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1960, could carry more planes than the other carriers.
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And that alone made her more valuable.
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The fact that she's atomic powered, which is the way they
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would have referred to it in those days, means that she
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doesn't have to refuel every couple of days.
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She doesn't. She's not burning through
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through diesel or through oil. She's not doing those exam
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because now she doesn't have to have those tanks.
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She can carry more jet fuel for her airplanes, which means that
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she can stay on station longer, which means that she can service
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more aircraft than and provide more power projection, which is
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what carriers do. She had some unique launching
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systems because she had all that extra electricity from those
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reactors that enabled them to do some things with that.
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And the thing about Enterprise, this new carrier, this carrier
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that would be designated as CVN, which is the Navy's deck
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description for carrier nuclear powered.
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She was fast, Bill. Rumors are now, I never served a
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border, but I know four or five people that did.
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And there are rumors and I can't verify these, but they're
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they're out there that by far and away Enterprise was the
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fastest ship ever in the United States Navy, at least combat
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ship. Now, there were some hydrofoils
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and stuff that could go faster, but she was fast.
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And I mean fast. So everything was working around
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this thing. Plus with this power and all
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these all this ability to do these things, people were
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starting to realize, hey, this is a great idea.
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But she's also the first generation of these atomic
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powered aircraft carriers. So we're going to have some some
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learning curves and we're going to have some things that maybe
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don't work quite the way we thought they did.
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And we're going to have to, you know, play around with her and
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modify her. And over her lifetime, she will
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be modified many times. The major modification that you
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would notice if you look at her from when she's built to today
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is that island structure. When she was first built, she
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had what was called the birthday cake radar up on top.
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Looks like a birthday cake. I mean, it really does.
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It's kind of round and pointy. That was taken away in the early
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1980s because they didn't need it anymore.
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She's a beautiful ship. She's fast, she's powerful.
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She's everything the United States Navy could possibly want.
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And once she's launched and finished and commissioned, we're
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going to send her out into the world where she is going to lead
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the way in the major events of the Cold War in the 1960s and
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the 1970s. Our weekly dive into history,
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Dave Bowman joins us on Bill Mick Live, Richmond transmission
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and auto Service this hour sponsor the program.
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Tell you something new about them coming up in just a minute
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or two. But we're getting back into the
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story of the USS Enterprise as Dave does history here on Bill
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Mick Live. Where we at, Dave?
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So after Enterprises launched this day in 1960, of course they
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finished building her commissioner and the Navy is
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just thrilled by this thing. They've got a new toy to play
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with. They've got to push her through
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all her limits. They got to figure out what she
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can do. We're actually going to take her
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along with the USS Long Beach, and I think it's the USS
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Truxton, don't quote me on that. Two other nuclear powered escort
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ships and they're going to do something called Operation Sea
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Orbit where these three ships are going to circular go around
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the entire world Magellanesque without refueling because
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they're all nuclear powered, which is kind of cool and the
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Navy's pretty proud of that. But the problem is, of course,
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the Cold War and things begin to happen, Bill.
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And you've got the Cuban missile crisis in 1962.
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An enterprise is on station ready to support if need be and
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and nobody knew what was going to happen.
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Are we going to go to war with Russia over Cuba?
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Are we just bought blockading very tense time.
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And here's this brand new USS Enterprise right there in the
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middle of all that. After that calms down, Vietnam
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begins to percolate. And in 19641965, with the Gulf
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of Tonkin, the resolutions, the United States finds itself
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essentially at war again, even though Congress didn't do its
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job, didn't declare war. But here we are.
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The aircraft carriers operate off what they call Yankee
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Station, which is off North Vietnam, and they fly bombing
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raids and bombing missions and support in Vietnam.
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And Enterprise is there many times.
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She does several deployments to Vietnam where her pilots,
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unfortunately, some of them are lost, some of them are captured.
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But she's there throughout Rolling Thunder and sea orbit
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and all those kinds of things. In January 14th of January 1969,
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she's doing her work UPS to go back to Vietnam again off Hawaii
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when an accident happens, there's some jet exhaust, it
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overheats a missile on one of the other airplanes that missile
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launches. And next thing you know you've
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got this massive fire on the tail end of Enterprise.
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And it's a it's a scary thing. I sent you a picture of it.
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You've seen it. So you imagine being on that
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ship at that point. It's horrifying.
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Sailors do not like fire. That is the thing that scares us
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the most is fire. And this is shortly after, by
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the way, the fire on the forest Hall.
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So fortunately, the lessons are learned.
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The fire is controlled very quickly by the damage control
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teams. But unfortunately, some 28
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sailors would be killed in this fire, another 300 injured.
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But it was just a reminder that even the most modern, most
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powerful, most beautiful of ships is subject to those same
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dangers that the sea has that I'm always telling you about.
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The ocean is always trying to kill you.
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And even jet, jet exhaust can cause a missile to fire off and
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set out. Set your ship on fire and you go
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from we're just in a training exercise to we're fighting for
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our life in the space of an instant.
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You know, as I look at the photo you sent Dave, that's a quarter
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or maybe 1/3 of the ship that had flames engaged there.
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Yeah, it's that the entire tail section of it is, is is engulfed
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in flames and explosions. And and like I said, this was
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shortly after the Forestall event, which was just an
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absolute disaster for the Navy. But a lot of lessons were
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learned and this fire was put out and within months rather
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than years, Enterprise was back in action again.
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Into the into the Cold War continues on, of course.
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The Enterprise becomes this symbol, I guess, of American sea
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power. Even though the Nimitz classes
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are coming online, the Nimitz's are not actually as big as the
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Enterprise. They're not as long as she is,
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and they're certainly not as fast as she is.
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And my first connection to the Enterprise was in 1980 when I
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came up here to work for the summer and she was here and I
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began to meet crew members of her and how proud they were of
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that ship and how big it was. Bill, I you, you just can't
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even, you can't even put it into words how massive this thing is.
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It's a city on On what? Yeah.
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And the other carriers are big too.
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But there's just something about Enterprise that's that's bigger
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than that. As we evolve into the other
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conflicts, the Gulf War and the War on Terror, enterprises.
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Once again, she's right there in the middle of that supporting
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enduring freedom in Afghanistan, later on air Operation Iraqi
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Freedom. But like her predecessor, the
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6th Aircraft carrier named the Enterprise, she's getting old.
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She's getting long in the tooth. And of course, she's been ridden
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hard and put away wet. I mean, she's, she's been our
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lead warship for the better part of 50 years.
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And so by the end of, of 2016, it's obvious that she's, she's
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ready. And on February 3rd, 2017, USS
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Enterprise CBN 65 is decommissioned at Newport News,
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right where she was built. And that's where she sits today.
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The Navy is running into some problems because they they built
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her, but they have no idea how to safely scrap her and they
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have to scrap. You can't make her a museum
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because of the because of the reactors.
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So what do you do with her? So since 2017, she's been
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sitting basically at the same pier where she was commissioned,
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just hanging out, waiting. Which is an odd juxtaposition
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because her predecessor, Enterprise, basically did the
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same thing. She had to sit there and wait
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because nobody really knew what to do with her.
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Nope. They've had these things they
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wanted to do with her, but couldn't get the money, couldn't
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get the support, couldn't get all those kinds of things.
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Well, here we have the same situation again.
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So even as Enterprise CV 6 sat there, CVN 65 Enterprise was
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being built. And today, even as this beloved
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Enterprise sits at that pier waiting for whatever's
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eventually going to happen, the newest Enterprise, a Gerald Ford
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class carrier, is sitting in her graving dock just a few 100
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yards away being built. And she will soon be launched
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and commissioned. And once again, Enterprise will
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sail the ocean blue. Because it isn't really the
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United States Navy unless we have an Enterprise.
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CBN 65, served this country long, 50 plus years and very,
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very well. When we come back, I'll give you
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my personal connection to it because there was one night
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where she was there for me, and I'm ever so glad that she was.
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Dave Bowman with us, and Dave does history.
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The USS Enterprise decommissioned, but a new one on
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the way. Dave, let's finish up the
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Enterprise. Today, so over her 50 plus years
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as Sir in service, the, the Enterprise CVN 65 really becomes
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the symbol of American power. It, it's, it's our, it's our
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flagship, America's flagship. I guess in a lot of ways, people
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that are stationed on other carriers will disagree with you,
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but but Enterprise, really, she's the heart and soul of what
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we do. She becomes a symbol of U.S.
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Navy dominance during the Cold War and even beyond that.
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And because of the way she's designed, and a lot of people
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don't understand this, in the early days, she was designed to
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be part of the nuclear triad. She carried weapons, special
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weapons, nuclear weapons, and would have been part of that
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process had it become necessary. She influences pop culture.
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She's on TV shows, and of course our biggest influence is on
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something that matters to you and I very much, which is, of
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course, Star Trek. When you're looking around for a
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name for your Starship, what finer name is there than than
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Enterprise? There just isn't 1.
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And so the USS Enterprise takes the same kind of dominance, the
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same kind of pride. As she flies through the Galaxy
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carrying that same name. And of course in in Star Trek
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the Motion Picture, there's these, there's this models of
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all the Enterprise and there's both of those ships, CV6 and
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CV65. Of course, they didn't know
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about the new one being built yet.
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So she's not there, but she's on her way.
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CVN 80 will be named Enterprise and soon will be sailing the
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oceans again. Now for me personally because I
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like history that has a personal connection.
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There came a time and I can tell you exactly when it was.
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It was October 31st, 1986 Halloween and it was 5:25 PM.
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We had just finished dinner and we were I was on coming fire
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control supervisor watch and was in control the USS Michigan when
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we felt a popping air popping ears pop kind of thing.
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I watched my Master Chief, who was the diving officer of the
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day, turn around to the officer of the deck, who was my weapons
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officer and say, did you just do something with with air?
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And he looked confused and said no.
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And about that time the four MC which is the emergency
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announcing circuit came across with fire and Andrew and began
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what I would call the longest night of my life as USS Michigan
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was disabled and we had to surface in the middle of the
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North Pacific on the night of October 31st November 1st, 1986.
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So here we are on the surface. We have no propulsion.
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We have no propulsion Lube oil left.
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We have vaporized Lube oil around a 1.75 MW reactor plant
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was a mess to to put it gently, It was, it was, it was a
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dangerous situation. And there are days, Bill, when I
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wonder how we made it back. But we did.
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And for many, many years, that was pretty much the story.
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And I was sitting at that coffee a few, couple of years ago with
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a friend of mine who happened to be a radioman on the ship.
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And he was telling me a part of the story that I didn't know.
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And that part of the story goes like this, because things were
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happening at the moment that that incident happened.
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We were part of what it was then called SIOP.
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That's A at the time, it was a classified term.
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It no longer is, which meant that we were the alert target
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deterrent package for the United States of America.
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We're it, of course, we're disabled, which means that a
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major part of the nation's nuclear deterrent force has a
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problem. Well, come to find out that
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several 100 miles away, operating in the same general
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area was USS Enterprise. And when she got the word that
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we were on the surface and disabled, Enterprise came about,
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launched her Combat Air Patrol F Fourteens and put on full steam,
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left her escorts sitting behind because they could not keep up
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with her, and came flying, so to speak, towards us, to cover us,
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to make sure that nobody got frisky and nobody got, you know,
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too close to USS Michigan on the surface.
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So imagine that I'm below decks. I don't know any of this.
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At this particular point, I'm concerned with whether or not
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we're going to sink or not and not be able to come back up.
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But overhead are the F Fourteens from USS Enterprise and flying
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as fast as she can at warp speed towards us is USS Enterprise.
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And the whole time this radio operator Mike is talking to them
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about, you know, here's where we are.
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You know, how long is it going to be till you're here in case
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we need help, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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And so on the the worst night of my life, the most important ship
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in the United States Navy and the ship that was named, the
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ship that gave its name to one of the most influential things
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in my life, Star Trek was watching over me.
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And I didn't even learn that until nearly 40 years after it
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happened. And let me tell you, that's a
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great feeling to know that Enterprise was always there for
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me. And it's something that I carry
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with me all the time. A beautiful ship, powerful ship,
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and the ship that was there when I needed it most.
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Wrapping up on Tuesday with Dave Does History on Bill Mick Live,
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the USS Enterprise the focus. So, Dave, this new Enterprise,
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how long before it's ready and when's it going to be back out
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and serve it? You know, I'm not sure of her
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exact launch date. I, I, I follow her on online.
25:03
She's under construction at the moment.
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She hasn't been technically launched.
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See, things have changed now. Used to be when you launched a
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ship, you slid it down the ways into the into the river there.
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Now they just flood the dry dock and, and up she comes and they
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christened her and, and off she goes.
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But when she's built, she'd be roughly comparable in size, but
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about about 10 to 15,000 tons heavier, which means she's even
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bigger. You know what we sailors like to
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say, broad in the beam. So she's a little, little bit
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heavier as it is. But her, her reactors, even
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though she'll only have two, are going to be just as powerful.
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She's going to be not quite as fast, obviously, but she doesn't
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need to be. She'll carry just as many
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airplanes, have about the same size crew and everything is
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everything's going to be great. And I'm just I'm looking forward
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to the day when we have yet another Enterprise sailing the
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ocean. Yeah, I can imagine you are Line
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one. You're up on Bill Micklog.
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Good morning. Good morning, Bill Ed in
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Melbourne. Yeah, Ed, go ahead.
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Great stuff, Dave, great stuff. There was there was another
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Enterprise also. It was the prototype space
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shuttle orbiter. They used it for a fit test fit
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check at Vandenberg and they put it on the metal zone 747, took
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it up the altitude and released the the Enterprise to see if it
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would fly in land. So but but great stuff.
26:41
I appreciate it. Ed, thank you and always a good
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reminder about the shuttle program and manage space ever
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advancing. If you missed this weekend's
26:49
roundtable, catch up with a gym banky with an amazing hour on
26:54
everything space. It's the top of the page of Bill
26:56
mick.com. Dave, you were mentioning
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earlier about they're having trouble about what to do with
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this ship, how to safely dispose of, what are they able to keep
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from it? What are the things that Navy
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folks are looking to keep off of a ship like this?
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I mean, a lot of history here, history for you personally, I
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mean, that's huge. There are a lot of connections
27:19
when when the first Enterprise carrier CV 6, the World War 2
27:22
carrier was was finally scrapped.
27:24
They actually kept a porthole from the, I believe it's the
27:27
Admiral's cabin, but it might not have been, but they put that
27:31
into the the nuclear carrier. Enterprise CVN 65, the one we've
27:36
been talking about is my understanding that they have
27:38
removed that from her and they have placed that into the new
27:41
carrier as well. So that can carries on.
27:44
Name plates are something that they like to hold.
27:46
Those are the plates that sit on the end of the ship that have
27:48
their name. It's hard to say what they could
27:52
keep from her because of the the reactors.
27:57
You can't really make her into a a museum ship because it's
28:02
there's just too many problems with that.
28:04
How you clean that up, I don't know the the things that could
28:07
be said. I personally, and this is my own
28:09
opinion, think that the Navy normally a museum ship, it's
28:14
donated to a private organization that's set up to do
28:17
that. I personally think that the Navy
28:19
itself should save at least the superstructure from the old
28:23
Enterprise and use that as some sort of monument memorial.
28:28
It would be a great Cold War memorial to me.
28:31
But I'm not in charge of the Navy.
28:33
I'm not the president and I'm not the Congress, so I don't
28:35
write the budget. But it sure seems to me that
28:38
they could do that again. Museum ships are very difficult
28:42
to maintain because they they still require all of the same
28:47
maintenance that a regular warship requires and that costs
28:52
money. And when the Navy's not paying
28:54
for it, who does pay for it? Selling bill during the break.
28:58
We're getting ready to set up a more immoral here with using the
29:01
USS Bremerton sale, which is tiny compared to, you know,
29:05
something like the Enterprise. And it's going to cost
29:08
$1,000,000 to move that sail 1/4 mile from where it where it's
29:12
going to be cut off the submarine to the park where we
29:15
want to put it, $1,000,000 bill. What would it cost?
29:19
Yeah. What would it cost to
29:20
memorialize in a present? Just a little bit, if there was
29:24
something you could have off of the Michigan from a workstation
29:28
and or anywhere across the ship, what would you want to have
29:31
sitting on your desk or in your office there?
29:33
I'd like a piece of the hull. When they, when they
29:36
decommissioner, they'll they'll cut out pieces of the hull.
29:38
I'd like to have that. I'll tell you what I'd really
29:40
like to have. Bill is my old bunk.
29:43
If they can just RIP that out and I'd put that here in my
29:46
office, right over there against that wall.
29:48
Never leave. Never Leave was the best sleep I
29:51
ever had. No, I don't think they're going
29:53
to let me do that though. So anyway, Enterprise is a great
29:57
story. Portion of a control panel or a
30:00
particular series of buttons that you were particularly fond
30:04
of. You know, that kind of thing.
30:05
Now they have those over in the museum, so I don't need a bunk,
30:09
but I'd love to have my bunk. I can see whether that would
30:14
come in handy. What are we looking at for Dave
30:16
Does history next week? Next week.
30:17
We're going to take a look at the lifetimes and tragedy of
30:20
Richard Stockton, who was a member of the Continental
30:23
Congress and one of the founders and founders of the country.
30:27
He wasn't a framer. He was a founder.
30:30
Richard's very good. And we will look forward to that
30:33
next Tuesday in our 8:00 hour. Dave Bowman, appreciate you
30:36
getting up and spending the whole day with us and doing all
30:39
the work it takes to bring us. Dave does history every week.
30:42
Thank you much, my friend. We'll look forward to next
30:43
weekend. We'll see you then.