Latest / Let's Kick It Off! / Ep 25: Night of Reckoning in Bilbao

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Ep 25: Night of Reckoning in Bilbao · Let's Kick It Off!

0:00
Let's kick it off. I'm with Carl Anker outside the
0:02
stadium in Bilbao. Carl, how are you feeling for
0:05
the game? Good, confident, feeling
0:07
confident. I listened to your pod, the
0:09
European finals pod. You were getting the juices
0:11
flowing, but you, you were feeling nervous.
0:14
You were giving that nervous energy a little bit.
0:15
When you say, when you think about it, you're feeling a bit
0:17
nervous as well, but now you're feeling.
0:19
Confident. Yeah, absolutely.
0:20
I. Didn't come this side just to
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come this way. Nice.
0:22
Is it the heritage? Is it the heritage?
0:24
Yeah. You can feel it.
0:26
Love that. Let's kick it off, I'm Steve and
0:45
I'm joined by Ash and us and we're in San Sebastian again
0:50
yesterday when the way we were faring very badly and couldn't
0:55
even contemplate pre match and Spurs beat US1 nil in the final
1:02
of the Europa League. And she said prior to the game,
1:06
I'm not a clown. And it turns out that we're the
1:09
clowns. Ash, how do you feel after that
1:13
defeat to Spurs? I can't deny absolutely
1:17
devastated by the result. Yeah, I was thinking pretty much
1:23
lowest moment as a United fan, losing to Tottenham in the
1:28
European final. And yeah, I don't want to get
1:32
into the game just yet. But yeah, the feeling is
1:36
probably as as low as you could get.
1:38
Yeah. Well, we'll talk like pretty
1:40
much and how we're feeling pretty much.
1:41
But us, how are you feeling right now?
1:46
I'm wondering why this podcast is still going, to be honest.
1:49
Did we agree to, like, finish it?
1:51
You wanted this episode? Oh, did I?
1:53
Yeah. OK.
1:54
Well, I'm really thankful for all the people that have
1:59
listened in. What episode are we on now,
2:00
Steve? This is going to be 25 S. 25
2:04
episodes. It's been a pleasure, it's been
2:06
emotional. You're in the 1% club or we've
2:09
we've reached the 1% club and I think it might be time to
2:12
retire. But on a serious note, yeah,
2:17
they're obviously very low at this point.
2:20
Very very confused as to how I'm going to produce 30 minutes of
2:25
content for you. So I'm sure we'll.
2:28
Please ask me some interesting questions.
2:30
I'll try my best, I think when we're in the kebab shop after
2:34
the game, somehow I was managed to pull out a 4.9 kebab shop
2:38
close to the stadium. And yeah, once we'd ordered the
2:41
kebabs. In fact, when we're all in the
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kebabs as gave the famous line, I've got nothing left.
2:47
Like Ian Bale, you can. You nearly didn't order anything
2:51
because you couldn't eat. It was actually that bad.
2:55
So all I need is good thing. If we're all EastEnders fans.
2:57
So we, they knew what I was talking about.
3:00
So Ron was with us at the time as well.
3:04
Actually, we could have acted out the name, right, Ron?
3:06
I did say, I did say you, you asked me how did I feel?
3:09
I said, yeah, I feel like he and Bill and and Ron's probably Phil
3:12
Mitchell and I've got nothing left.
3:14
And it's the biggest thing standards fan out of all of us.
3:17
And that did sum up my emotions at the time.
3:20
But yeah, sometimes you just have to block, block those
3:24
things out and focus the task at hand.
3:26
And then new boys were hungry. And it's always my role to
3:30
deliver good dinner options. And yeah, I think the chick I
3:35
had, the chicken Shiwama was was pretty good, to be fair.
3:39
They. Took the time of it as well,
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which is nice. So like, you know, they really
3:43
put effort in Chips were decent, good, good options on the
3:46
condiments as well from their yeah, the chilli sauces,
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excellent ketchup, Mayo table service at a kebab shop.
3:53
I mean, yeah, I get any better. I mean, it's probably a better
3:56
performance from the kebab shop guys than the team would be
3:59
better. And the execution of of this
4:01
podcast to get, you know, a dinner on your strategy with the
4:05
kebab shop is probably better than Ruben's game plan as well,
4:07
you could argue. Certainly based on what we saw
4:11
on the pitch, things didn't work out, you know, the way we wanted
4:15
to. Yeah.
4:17
I always say, though, in football that the result always
4:20
determines the narrative. And because we lost, it was
4:24
obviously a a horror show. It's weird though, that I, I, I
4:29
look at Andrew's game plan and go, well, Spurs didn't do
4:32
particularly anything either, but they won the football match
4:35
and that's all in in a cup final.
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That's all that mattered at the end of the day.
4:40
So, yeah, hard to take it. Yeah, very disappointing.
4:45
Well, let's talk about some fun stuff before we get into the
4:48
game, because the actual day I really enjoyed even the you
4:52
know, the the days surround and even now I'm having a good time
4:55
in San Sebastian, but obviously it's been dampened by that
4:59
result. So just rewinding a little bit.
5:02
Obviously we released our pre match pod with that beautiful
5:05
background out in the best country and think it's fair to
5:08
say we're all feeling positive in our pretty much pod.
5:12
Big smiles. You could see the teeth a lot of
5:14
energy in the voices Slayer blue skies, blue skies, beautiful
5:18
ocean. Ron.
5:19
Ron was pumped ready to go it. Was only spurred we're playing
5:24
as well and yeah. It's only spurred.
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We're going to win. I know I'm not a clown.
5:28
Yeah, we all of the vibes felt good.
5:30
And yeah, I mean, if we if we talk about our day, we drove in
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to Bilbao, got there for lunchtime, lovely pizza again,
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as you pulled out, pulled, pulled the pizza place out the
5:41
bag. You think your best pizza ever
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you set potentially. Was was right up there, I have
5:45
to say. So it's yeah, five stars and
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there isn't A6 starring life scale, so.
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Up there with your pizzas, right?
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So that's better than my own PO, you know, is is the highest
5:58
acclaim you can get, so. But pound for pound, yours is
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probably better, right? If you consider they've got the
6:03
better equipment and you know you're working with.
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Home kitchen. I don't want to get, you know,
6:07
sound arrogant in my pizza. Cooking quality ingredients,
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though it would be better here compared to London.
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But you do get, you can, you know, you do get good produce
6:16
in. But the bass.
6:17
Can day as well. No, but I mean the tomatoes
6:21
pizza. I mean, this is are we going
6:23
into a pizza? Well, I know this, but I'd
6:25
rather talk about the answer than the question.
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You can buy Italian, I use Italian ingredients anyway you
6:30
could. Well, you can.
6:31
You can buy Italian flower, You can buy Italian tinned tomatoes,
6:36
San Marzano tomatoes and mozzarella, you know.
6:40
Like to them? All all you good local
6:42
supermarkets. But if Waitrose do want to
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sponsor us, that's where I typically go.
6:45
Oh. You're a Waitrose.
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Girl, so I am indeed. Yeah, there enough?
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Yeah. You like quality?
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Can't argue with that. See a good pizza?
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Had a little stroll around Bilbao.
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We were headed to the fans. And what did you make for the
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fans and the official United fans?
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And this is up the hill. Oh, that one.
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Well, apart from the hike to get up there.
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Yeah, it was a good atmosphere up there.
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Concert was going on. Cortinas bit of 19 forever,
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yeah. Don't know when 21's going to
7:14
come, but you know I won't have to worry about that for another
7:16
day. You're the lead singer, Liam
7:18
Frey. Liam Frey looked very drunk.
7:21
Yeah, I could say a bit drugged up as well.
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Possibly. I'm not sure which drugs but you
7:26
know don't want to put. Possibly cocaine.
7:28
Don't want to put any rumours out there, but is that the white
7:30
stuff? Charlie?
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To be honest, for me, I I was actually disappointed with the
7:34
fans and I thought it was pretty dead.
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I mean, just loud music. I don't think it was very.
7:39
I think the spread, that was the thing that, you know, the fans
7:42
have spread across. Yeah, yeah.
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I think it's judging by when we're walking up to it, we see a
7:47
lot, a lot of people leaving. So I think a few people went to
7:50
check it out and didn't think much of it and left.
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From what I could make out, the weather was, you know, it's a
7:55
bit cloudy. So yeah, I, I think they did the
7:58
best. I mean, obviously we'll probably
8:00
talk about it a tiny bit later in terms of where we went,
8:04
where, where all the fans were. But it was well organised and we
8:08
met some interesting people there, Steve, didn't we?
8:10
Yeah. So we bumped into Flex and he
8:14
gave us a little bit of need to say and yeah, listening to what
8:17
he said now. Let's kick it off.
8:19
We're in the United Fan Zone, just bumped into Flex, the main
8:21
man. Flex Are you feeling about the
8:23
game? Do you know what?
8:24
Yeah. I.
8:25
Thought when I landed here I thought I'd be like, the nerves
8:28
would kick in and like, Oh my God, we can't lose his.
8:31
Nerves feeling confident, aren't you?
8:32
Oh, really? It's the it's the opposite, man.
8:34
You feeling confident? Yeah, I'm feeling I'm like I
8:36
could. Feel your energy there's.
8:37
Something like I'm like, it's like.
8:40
It's the heritage. Do you know what I?
8:42
Mean like, I'm like, yeah, Spurs have done us like the last few
8:44
games they've beaten them since 2022, all of that.
8:46
But like this is a final. Game European final bro, we've
8:50
got big players. Exactly.
8:52
You're you're. I think going straight back in.
8:53
Straight in, yeah, I think. He goes straight back in at left
8:55
centre back. I think the likes of Xerxi and
8:57
Dallow, I think they may have to be on the bench and then see how
9:00
they can help us later on in the game.
9:02
But I'm just, I don't know. I don't know whether it's
9:04
arrogance or. But I just.
9:06
Feel I could only be honest. I feel like we're going to win
9:08
by two, bro. Yeah, just 312, nil 4/2.
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I don't know about that. We're winning by two, two goals,
9:14
by two goals within 90 minutes. Yeah, yeah, within 90.
9:16
Yeah, so as you listen to Flex there and I think his channel's
9:19
United View on YouTube, really good content.
9:23
Yeah. He said he was nervous, right.
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And as soon as he got to Bilbao, I think he felt the vibes and
9:27
the good energy and he started to feel confident.
9:29
I felt he he got the positive energy from you, Steve.
9:32
You know, you were really pumped.
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And I felt Flex's energy go to another level on that note, like
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the whole week I've been telling you boys this, I just felt
9:42
really confident. And obviously we know we
9:45
discussed this. It's not necessarily based on
9:47
the performances this season. It's very much the heritage, the
9:51
big game players, Spurs having injuries, all of that in the mix
9:55
are just really in the vital area as well, right, where
9:58
Tottenham had the injuries. Creativity.
10:00
Yeah, I just really felt we were going to win as I think you even
10:03
by match day you were thinking 2-3 nil, you know, potentially a
10:07
comfortable win. Yeah.
10:09
So two. No, I think yeah.
10:10
Yeah. So, yeah, I think everyone was
10:13
feeling confident, right. So even the Spurs fans should be
10:16
added and all the journals, pretty much they all, some of
10:21
them did say Spurs could do it. But then they always went back
10:24
to either the heritage or the cup experience that our team
10:27
had. And overall, I think most, most
10:30
people, even the Spurs fans that we met, right, they were they
10:33
were nervous, not confident. Yeah, I think we must, I must
10:38
have bumped into at least 10 to 20,000 spoke to them pre match
10:42
and I can I can't think of one that actually felt confident.
10:45
They were definitely. Not They still seemed lacking
10:48
confidence after they'd won the Yeah, definitely they.
10:51
Felt sheepish to celebrate, yeah.
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Just very odd, yeah. So I guess they've had a very
10:57
difficult season as well. So Anna Baron spell, I think if
11:01
we, if we, if we had won the trophy despite our difficult
11:04
season, there would have been a huge outburst of emotion and
11:06
celebration. And I didn't really feel feel
11:10
that it was. It's more apologetic, like
11:14
having been 17 years. I think what was interesting is
11:19
I can certainly say from my youth and growing up, I always
11:22
associated Tottenham with playing good football.
11:24
And I think a lot of Spurs fans support Tottenham because of
11:28
that. And most of them were saying,
11:30
yeah, it was a shit game. And that, yeah, they were
11:32
focusing less on the result than the actual quality of the game.
11:37
Which is really interesting. Well, for United it's like it
11:40
doesn't matter how you get through, you just want to win,
11:42
win the match. After the game, every first fan
11:45
that I bumped into, especially the ones at the car park, they
11:48
all said the game was shit and one of the worst finals in terms
11:53
of quality. So yeah, like you said, if it
11:56
was United winning that we wouldn't give shit because
12:00
winning is all that matters. Yeah, I think they're the few
12:03
Spurs ones I spoke to post match.
12:05
Like I know a couple and the ones that messaged me said, you
12:08
know, we we were united with a slightly better team as well.
12:10
But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, right?
12:13
It's all about who went to the game.
12:14
We talked about pre match comes down to who's going to produce
12:17
the moment. And unfortunately for us, no one
12:20
was able to produce that moment of quality to you know, we
12:23
create a few chances, but not clear cup chance.
12:25
And even the chances we did create, we couldn't put the ball
12:28
in the net. So just before we get into the
12:30
game, you know, heading into the stadium, yeah.
12:35
How are you boys feeling? Like actually as you walked into
12:38
the stadium, I was very calm. I had Ron obviously with us as
12:44
well. Sorry, I do have to rewind a
12:46
little bit because I forgot about the square I was.
12:47
Going to say yeah, as far as the list, Yeah, yeah.
12:50
We went into the square, right, Plaza Nueva.
12:53
I probably butchered the name there, but that's where all the
12:55
United funds we're hanging out. Yeah.
12:58
So that's why they run out the fan park.
12:59
Yeah. So we got a tip off that, oh,
13:01
there's little United fans in the square.
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So we're headed down to the square.
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Yeah. Good cheesecake place on the
13:05
side of that square. I was going to say, that was
13:08
definitely the best cheesecake that we've had in Basque so far.
13:13
That's it. It's the chain and there's one
13:15
down here as well, so I'm going to get one.
13:17
Oh, is it the chain? Yeah, OK.
13:18
Ashley's obviously flying out tonight, so I'm going to make
13:23
sure that I'm going to do the same tomorrow when when I play
13:26
out. Yes, as we're heading square
13:29
full of United fans. Yeah, that was a that was a sea
13:33
red in a square. Yeah And yeah, I think you boys
13:36
bumped into Faisal Islam with the BBC, right?
13:39
Yeah, Ron eagle eyed. He saw him.
13:42
Not the first time we've spotted him at a finals.
13:44
We actually spotted him at the IT was the FA Cup final.
13:48
He. Was at the FA Cup final as well.
13:50
Yeah, outside the Was it an Indian restaurant?
13:54
Outside Axel Kochi's restaurant? We haven't.
13:57
Did we have dinner there 1? Way.
13:58
The big up final, Yeah, it wasn't way.
14:00
So yeah, that's the second time it was spotted.
14:03
And then yeah, definitely not. It was definitely news, but I
14:06
didn't because I don't know if Ron actually watches any.
14:08
News so he wouldn't know who fight the list I'm is Ron make
14:12
make a comment in on the pod if you actually hear it he.
14:15
Was on EastEnders he would exactly.
14:17
You're saying Ron follows economics and either BBC?
14:20
I'm suspicious of this. We'll see.
14:23
You don't. You don't think he follows the
14:24
interest rates, So maybe maybe how it actually went.
14:27
I spot then Ron went to talk to him.
14:29
That's normally. How?
14:29
Maybe that's the usual way of things.
14:32
Yeah. We work as a team, yeah.
14:34
Yeah. So you picked him out and then
14:36
obviously Ron, always on the front foot, went over to speak
14:40
to him and yeah, managed to get a nice little preview from him
14:44
on our pod and this is what he had to say.
14:49
Welcome to Let's Kick it off podcast.
14:51
We're live in Bilbao. Got fires all Islam with me
14:54
here. Hello.
14:54
How are you feeling? Good.
14:56
Confident. Feeling confident?
14:57
Yeah. People don't realise that this
14:59
is not, it is the Europa League final, but it's actually the end
15:04
of a two year cup run for United.
15:06
All started with that FA Cup run, right?
15:08
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly so.
15:09
And well, let's just see where we go.
15:11
But there's an obviously logical.
15:14
There's also a thing to extend that.
15:15
If it goes our way tonight. So what you're saying is we can
15:17
thank Anthony for getting that equaliser against Liverpool in
15:20
the FA Cup? But exactly the win Coventry.
15:24
PAR. Exactly.
15:26
Probably made a new goal against City.
15:28
It's crazy, right? Yeah, but no site any number.
15:31
It's all connected. It's a bit.
15:32
It's a bit, it's quite a lot of sliding doors moments in this
15:35
that's. Very true, right?
15:36
So what do you think about tonight?
15:39
How did you see the game going? I mean, what do they call it,
15:42
the Clanico? Haven't they?
15:45
I really annoyed me with Arsenal fan saying that.
15:47
But you can, you know, you can see why if Reuben gets the
15:52
selection right, we should win. And what?
15:57
What? What does that selection look
15:58
like? Well.
15:59
I. I think it's a tough decision
16:03
about Hoyland. What would you?
16:06
What would you do now? What would you do with Hoyland?
16:09
I'm attracted listen, I I look at all these tactics podcasts
16:14
and blogs and do you understand? I understand false 9 low block
16:19
XGCI mean why is this? It's too technical.
16:24
It's just tedious these days. It's tedious and it's it's it's
16:28
unfortunately what pet it's done to our game.
16:31
Did you watch the cup final? Yes, I did.
16:33
Did you watch that Crystal Palace goal?
16:35
He overthought it, the Crystal Palace goal, just to think of
16:38
absolute beauty. It's just like, wow, that's.
16:41
Long. Ball, right, Direct, never
16:43
right. But like skill, fast direct, but
16:46
skill you can't. I'm sorry, Wimbledon, that is
16:49
like, that's English football. That's what you like.
16:51
Too much stepping on the ball, passing it backwards.
16:56
Like you know, we've been to these finals, I've been to two
17:00
where we played Peps teams and they were better than us.
17:03
Been to a three actually if you count the cup final and they
17:07
were better than us. But we won the game.
17:10
Well, no, no, we we won it, which is why that's the Scarfana
17:13
was so right, amazingly emotional.
17:16
But I think the big thing is that they they it's a boring way
17:21
of playing football, right? It's start, pass backward.
17:25
It's weasel football, right? It's not what we.
17:29
It's not the DNA. We're buying this shirt.
17:31
It's not how it's not football, right?
17:33
OK. So like some sort of like energy
17:37
required, a sense of light, just going home, exciting.
17:41
You want that attacking a little bit.
17:43
Of that, yeah. And so I wonder what's happened
17:45
to Rasmus. I saw the videos.
17:47
I thought he's going to be like that.
17:48
He's been chasing all these balls.
17:50
So no, I'm I what I what I, what I'm excited about right now is
17:56
you've got to put the people on form.
17:58
So I'm thinking Mason Mounts probably gone out to as a SOB.
18:05
Tough decision about Hoyland maybe bringing home and stuff.
18:08
They're quite strong with the back, Spurs midfield dynamic and
18:14
young. Maybe not.
18:15
Mason, Mel. Maybe legs in the middle of the
18:17
race? But listen, I'm not missed the
18:20
tactics. You want.
18:21
You want to go and. United to win right?
18:24
That's what Faisal had to say. Can you please explain XG to
18:28
Faisal? Do you actually want me to?
18:32
The listeners brief explanation because we've been on about next
18:37
year a lot. I'm not sure we've actually
18:38
explained it. Oh, OK.
18:40
So do you remember when you watch a football match and
18:44
afterwards the statistics would come up right?
18:47
And it will tell you the the the shot count.
18:50
And the shot count in this game was I think 16 three.
18:54
Yeah, I think so. You'd go OK, 16, three.
18:57
United clearly dominate this game apparently right through
19:02
through number of shots. All XG looks to do is to try and
19:05
assign a value to those shots. Were those 16 high quality shots
19:09
or low quality shots? Were they 3 high quality shots?
19:12
Like you're a glaze? No, the bar for example would be
19:14
a low XG. Right.
19:15
So the closer. So it, it, it basically they've
19:20
got a model where it says, OK, based on previous occasions, how
19:24
likely it is for someone to score from this particular
19:27
position based on the position of the defenders, based on the
19:29
goalkeeper being here. But what's the likelihood,
19:32
what's the like the outcome of this?
19:33
So for example, the easiest one is penalty kicks.
19:36
You can go through penalty kicks because it's a standard thing
19:39
and see, OK, how many times the penalty scored.
19:42
And I think it's around 0.81, right?
19:45
So 81% of the time it might be slightly different, but around
19:50
that it's therefore the penalty kicks get to naughty .181 XG.
19:54
You look at the XG for this game.
19:55
I think you, you told me, Steve, that it was fairly even that.
19:59
Yeah. Point A like yeah, we would a
20:02
tinge over one Spurs and five of the Spurs.
20:06
Were different so you might have like 5 different XGS but
20:11
essentially you've got an even XG which what does that say is
20:15
the 16 shots to three. Actually, in reality, the those
20:20
sixteen shots were low quality chances and Spurs had a similar
20:26
opportunity to score of which one of those was assuming the
20:30
Brennan Johnson goal, which made-up a lot of which made-up a
20:33
lot of it and they score from that so.
20:37
Yeah. OK.
20:37
Well, hopefully that's clear to Paiso and hopefully understands
20:40
that, hopefully embraces it now going forward, yeah.
20:43
I don't know why people don't like it because I think it's
20:45
just, it's just another way of like, what's the possession
20:48
stats, right? I think he he's making the point
20:53
that there's too much analysis around football.
20:56
But as someone that is analytically minded, and I'm
20:58
just thinking, Faisal, you'll be, you'll be ex political
21:02
editor now the economics editor and you want to explain to us
21:05
about interest rate changes, so or inflation, why we're getting
21:09
complicated about these things. I find it interesting and and I
21:12
think why, why not do a bit of analysis on football?
21:16
I think to be fair, his general point was he thinks the analysis
21:20
on football has gone a bit too deep because he was talking
21:22
about Pep. No, maybe not even the analysis.
21:24
Also the tactics. He's talking about Pep ruining
21:26
football and you know, like that whole obsession you could say
21:30
about tactics. Do you agree with him?
21:32
Or? I think it's just culture.
21:36
As we've gone on in time, there's more data available.
21:39
We live in a world of social media, Internet that, you know,
21:42
Internet only came around like early 90s when football, you
21:46
know, we were watching the Premiership as Jim would say
21:50
back then. So it's inevitable that data
21:53
will come into it. I mean, I remember when Optus
21:56
stats, you know, came around, I think early 2000s and everyone
22:00
was like, what is this? And Optus stats now is seen as,
22:03
you know, of dinosaur like kind of statistics or idiot
22:07
statistics because things like assists, you know, we don't want
22:11
to go into it today, but it's like it's like, you know, can
22:14
you put a true metric on it? Because if I pass you the ball
22:19
and then you bend it into the top corner 25 yards out, is it
22:22
really my assist? It's an FPL, yeah.
22:25
And actually we're. Not having big battles, so we'll
22:27
have to discuss how you make. AI mean suppose something out
22:31
behind big time. I know you, obviously.
22:34
I mean, I, I still like the eye test as well, but I, I don't
22:37
mind mixing. You're a gut.
22:39
You're a gut feeling guy. Yeah, I like the gut, but I
22:42
don't mind data. I like using both.
22:45
It's a guide more than anything. Yeah, exactly.
22:48
But yeah, the volume in the square was good.
22:51
Started to head to the stadium. You too.
22:55
And Ron was sitting in the official United and I was in the
22:57
neutral section. So I had a really good view
22:59
right next to the the media. Did they have prawn sandwiches?
23:03
But no porn sandwiches. I was really disappointed
23:05
actually with the food available because I was quite peckish by
23:08
this point because we'd eaten at like 2:00 and I just wanted some
23:11
chips to keep me going. So keep us.
23:14
Yeah. So just queued for a queue for
23:15
about 1520 minutes in the Tatas Brava.
23:18
Yeah, just maybe something. And then I got to the front of
23:20
the queue, no food available. Had to resort to some nuts, well
23:25
flavoured nuts, to be fair, which I demolished later on.
23:30
Kept going. And one thing that did actually
23:31
keep me going on about 70 minutes, I pulled out a
23:35
chocolate that Carl Anka gave me just as I was heading into the
23:39
stadium. I spot with Carl Anka heading
23:41
into the media entrance. And obviously maybe he may have
23:44
pulled out with Mike and asked him to do a little bit for the
23:47
pod. Need to get a friend from The
23:49
Athletic on, don't we? I know.
23:50
Yeah, obviously he's one of the United journalists for The
23:54
Athletic. And yeah, he gave us a little
23:56
bit. And again, he was feeling
23:59
confident going into the stadium, but I did kind of
24:02
challenge them a little bit because I've listened to the
24:04
previous few pods on the Athletic and he was the one
24:07
giving the nervous energy. So I said, you know what's
24:10
changed? And you know, as you heard
24:11
there, he's he basically said, he said he can he can feel it.
24:17
He can feel that we're going to win.
24:18
Almost like if you smell what what the rock is cooking,
24:22
basically. That's what you said.
24:23
Yeah. So, yeah, when you boys were
24:25
walking in, I'm guessing nothing changed.
24:27
And how are you feeling about the game?
24:28
Any nerves kicking? Their nerves?
24:30
Always nerves. Always nerves, beautiful
24:33
stadium. Yeah, you always have that that
24:37
tension. We watch the warm up really
24:40
closely. I've heard it mentioned before,
24:43
our United warm up and it they they maintain that in terms of
24:47
practising set piece situations and drills.
24:51
I was obviously looking at the warm up of of Dallow and Xerxe
24:55
as well. They were doing their own
24:56
individual 1 coming back from injury and that made me.
25:00
OK, there there'll be an option off the bench and Anna was doing
25:03
a very interesting goalkeeper exercise where he was
25:07
essentially lying down and the ball was being fed from the
25:12
other side and he was flicking it.
25:15
So it was almost like, I guess shots which are low and the
25:18
ability to like flick it away from goal.
25:21
And he was doing that quite, you know, intensely.
25:23
Unfortunately, when when the Vernon Johnson shots flicked it
25:27
into the net thinking that which?
25:28
Was, yeah. And that was the goalkeeping
25:31
coach who Reuben Amram said he'd rather play than Marcus
25:34
Rashford. He was just helping him with
25:38
that, you know, 60 year old. Yeah, I was looking at him
25:41
thinking, yeah, I'd be very surprised if he could, you know,
25:46
before goal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, OK.
25:49
And then yeah, the game kicks off and then I personally felt
25:53
from my prawn sandwich view those first 10 minutes, I felt
25:56
relatively comfortable, confident.
25:59
I thought we kept the ball quite well.
26:00
Yes, we didn't create anything but those early parts of finals,
26:04
I think, you know, bit possession just settle the
26:06
nerves down a bit. I was feeling pretty good.
26:08
I think the. Spurs look good.
26:09
They look nervous as well. Yeah, so.
26:12
But yeah, I think after that, yeah, I was taught to me, how
26:15
did you see the first half in general outside of the 1st 10
26:19
minutes or even, you know, how do you remember it?
26:22
I would say it's the thing that I would always, I thought coming
26:27
into this game was the first goal would be crucial because we
26:30
don't score enough goals. And so when they scored first,
26:34
that was just a hammer blow before half time as well.
26:38
And the the problem is you, when you are sitting in the in the
26:43
game, it's hard to get an exact view of it and what happened
26:46
with the goal. But The funny thing is I've been
26:48
listening to a lot of post match analysis and no one seems to
26:51
still know what happened with the goal.
26:53
Yeah, Did he touch it on the end?
26:54
Likes and I think it's clear that the ball comes in it,
26:59
Johnson misses it and then it hits Shaw.
27:02
And then comes back into his path magically and it's like the
27:05
ball just appears there and he and he taps it in.
27:07
That's what happened. Oh, OK.
27:09
But everyone's like, oh, no, it's a sure own goal.
27:11
It's like, no, no, it's not. I've I saw the YouTube
27:13
highlights and he definitely got a touch up at the end.
27:17
As in, as in as in, he's missed the ball.
27:19
Yeah, he the cross comes in, he's gotten past the ball.
27:22
Yeah, the ball's now behind him. It now ricochets back offshore
27:26
and then back into his path. For the listeners who can't, you
27:29
know, see it's an in swinging ball near post.
27:33
Like you say, Johnson misses the ball, it comes off shores, I
27:37
think shoulder, uh, back into the pathway of goal.
27:40
I think it's probably going white and ever so slightly
27:44
Johnson's got a touch with his foot.
27:47
Initially I when I saw the replay in the stadium, I thought
27:50
it was an own goal. But when they gave it as
27:52
Johnson's I was like, what they on about?
27:53
But then, yeah, after watching it again, it definitely does
27:56
touch Johnson because I've heard some other pods say that it you
28:00
know, they're still sceptical if it did touch Johnson on the on
28:03
the final part, but it definitely does for the benefit
28:06
of Pfizer Leslan. It was a fucking shit goal to
28:08
continue it. Was a poor goal.
28:10
Yeah, they, you know, the cross, you know the time that I was a
28:15
papisar, he had a lot of time to put the ball in.
28:19
Obviously the markings are not great.
28:21
It's not just sure with the Paul marking.
28:24
I think Mcguire's like, you know, behind the play as well.
28:27
But yeah, I mean, I haven't watched it far, far enough back,
28:31
but I've heard some pods talk about the fact that Bruno
28:34
actually gives the ball away. I think it's an interception
28:37
from. Papisar I mean, yeah, Steve on
28:40
the first top. Generally we were sloppy in
28:43
possession. The interesting thing is a lot
28:46
of the analysis going into the game was how Spurs are missing
28:49
Madison and Kurlicevsky, so they lack creativity.
28:52
I think it almost played into Andrew's hands because they, I
28:57
don't know which way is it chicken and egg did and want to
29:00
play this way or did he play this way because he was missing
29:03
those players? But I think playing this way was
29:06
the perfect game plan to go against us, which was just have
29:10
a very physical midfield. Not really.
29:12
You don't need creativity. Basically it was, it was very
29:16
classic Jose Mourinho. I thought it was classic
29:19
Mourinho. Let's park the bus.
29:22
They didn't. Really look to to threaten us
29:24
and then score a score a jammy goal and then park the bus it
29:29
double. Well, we're not spoiling
29:30
anything by giving the match step right it 27% possession for
29:35
Spurs. So that tells you everything
29:37
about, you know, Jose and part of the bus.
29:40
I think it's worth touching on the line up for Manchester
29:43
United because obviously throughout this very exciting
29:48
Europa campaign, the midfield has been Agarte and Casimiro.
29:53
But you know, Ruben made a bold choice by playing Bruno next to
29:58
Casimiro and dropping Agarte for the final.
30:01
So that was a big change from, you know, the campaign that
30:05
we've had in the Europa and then obviously Mason Mound starting.
30:09
That was big given that he's not played that many minutes both in
30:13
the Premier League or the Europa.
30:16
Garnacho, obviously a substitute having, you know, done a lot
30:21
during during the season. Ahmad even starting.
30:24
I mean, probably fair given, you know, he is one of our best
30:27
players. But again, not many minutes.
30:30
So it's interesting. And then, yeah, we got a striker
30:34
completely out of the form. So there was speculation and
30:38
obviously pundits and fans were talking about maybe doing a
30:41
false 9. So yeah, I mean, I didn't quite
30:46
think it was the lineup we were all expecting.
30:49
I know our lineups were all different from Reubens anyway,
30:52
but I thought, for example, Garte would start Bruno
30:56
Fernandez. We're playing one of the number
30:58
10, so I think that's worth touching on.
31:01
What was your thoughts, Ron? Sorry, Steve, are you good?
31:05
Thanks for that compliment. Yeah, exactly.
31:07
Yeah, no, I think. You have a better head and.
31:09
Ron had to be when we saw the lineup headed into the stadium.
31:13
Yeah, I think the bold call, yeah, like you said, there's a
31:15
guard say, but I think in my pre match prediction in terms of the
31:20
line up, I wanted Mason Mount to play.
31:22
I don't. Think Agate was a bold that bold
31:25
to call. Well, he hasn't been playing
31:26
that well. He hasn't been playing that
31:27
well. So even though he's played the
31:28
previous game, yeah, it's kind of like it's I think the Mason
31:33
Mount mark. Yeah, was was was in and you you
31:36
wanted mount in the team. I did.
31:37
And I and when you said that, I was like, oh, I quite like that
31:40
idea. But that was with Agate because
31:42
I wanted the Garte's, I wanted the Giante and Casamira holding
31:46
and then mount and Bruno, Bruno up the pitch, right?
31:49
Yeah. So that I think that that was
31:51
the difference, right? Bruno goes deeper and Casamira,
31:55
I feel like he got overrun a little bit in that game.
31:57
I almost feel by Bruno playing next Casamira and like a more
32:02
holding or passing role that probably helped Tottenham in
32:06
terms of play the way they did because if Bruno was further up
32:09
the pitch, Yep he probably could have given the ball away a bit
32:11
more, but the attacking threat of Bruno would have caused more
32:15
disruption to that Spurs back line and their midfield.
32:19
It'd be an even worse game then. Can you imagine Spurs defensive
32:23
set up? Yeah.
32:24
And then us having Casimir and Agate.
32:27
Yeah, yeah, it would have been very scrappy.
32:29
Dodge Fest it would. Have been really scrappy, but
32:32
Bruno further up the pitch is always better for me.
32:35
But I know you were disappointed with the way we even managed the
32:38
game. So like in terms of the initial
32:41
lineup and even like his changes, Yeah.
32:44
What did you make of the way he handled that?
32:47
Yeah, I was very, very, very disappointed.
32:52
At half time I was saying to Ash, I this is 1/2 time I would
32:56
do I would have gone half time. So I've quit early, got a Nacho
33:00
on for sure would have been my change.
33:04
I, I, I just cannot. I've said this so many times.
33:07
I've said 25 is probably the 25th pod that I've said this,
33:11
although I wasn't on pod #2 so I'm going to say the 20. 4th
33:14
Well, you double up on the words.
33:15
They've probably said it 50. Times, oh, in terms of the
33:18
number of times, I think more like 50,000 times that.
33:21
I don't want Maz rally at right wing back.
33:24
I just don't think that that it doesn't help for Ahmad to
33:29
constantly be trying to beat 3 players by himself that you
33:33
know, you want a wing back to get up and support him.
33:36
I know that Mazrawi is good defensively and you want to try
33:40
and you know, nullify a little bit, but it's too negative
33:44
though for me it's too negative. So I would assure as well just
33:49
looked rusty for me. So I don't understand why he
33:52
still he's what he's looked rusty anyway coming into this
33:55
game. And then I trust Reuben to
33:57
understand the physical condition of his players, but he
34:00
just looked rusty looked rusty on the goal and I'm a big Luke
34:05
Shaw fan, but I felt that we need to go natural on the pitch.
34:11
I think I I think I had gone natural instead of foiling him.
34:14
I can't remember my my starting lineup, but gone actual is the
34:18
the the player that can, you know, provide some dynamism and
34:22
he just he took far too long to bring him on.
34:25
So that there's that then he made what feel like just like
34:31
like for like changes, right. So Xerxi also came on, but for
34:35
Hoyland, so gone actually for Mount in the 10, Xerxi Hoyland
34:40
as a striker and Dalla for Mazrawi.
34:42
And he had like, wait a minute, you didn't have enough attacking
34:45
players on the pitch to begin with and you have the same
34:48
number of attacking players to finish with.
34:50
And the tactic towards the end seemed to be Dallow crosses the
34:54
ball into the box with Harry Maguire up front and Xerxy at
34:58
the 10. What was your suggestion?
34:59
Because it was a good one. I was just saying if you're if
35:03
if that's your tactic, which is a very legitimate tactic if you
35:07
believe that. But Spurs by this point had gone
35:10
to a 541 like full park, a bus mode.
35:14
Not interested in attacking at all, no interest in attacking.
35:17
So you know, you do need to potential the McGuire like
35:20
people joke about the sticking McGuire up front, but putting up
35:24
a that your tall player into the box wherever that person is, you
35:29
know, the Fellaini role or whatever isn't an abnormal.
35:32
And against two tall sensor box for Spurs, right.
35:35
So you needed that physicality at that point.
35:38
Yeah, but. Yeah, Why didn't you bring in
35:41
Christian Eriksen to do that? Have or or or adjust the put
35:46
Bruno out there to be the if you're thinking, OK, I I want to
35:50
create a situation where I have a ball that's crossed into the
35:53
box to people who can head the ball.
35:55
Steve, who would you want of our team crossing the ball into the
35:58
box? Yeah, Ericsson's a good job.
35:59
Doesn't have any legs. Bruno's.
36:01
And you know, Bruno's the best, so.
36:03
You set up the team to go OK this is my plan yeah, Dallow
36:07
coming on to do that. It didn't, it's, it doesn't
36:10
didn't fill me with any confidence the other way.
36:12
And I the way I would, I think A-Team should attack a low block
36:17
is to try and work to the byline for cutbacks because yeah, you
36:21
can. I think we, we probably made 50
36:25
crosses and probably won three of them in the game.
36:28
I think Luke Shaw had that, yeah, opportunity.
36:31
It reminded me a bit like, you know, is it the David Moyes
36:34
against Fulham game where it was, yeah, 82 crosses, yeah.
36:37
It's like Old Trafford. Yeah.
36:39
Just come on, you've got to, you've got to come up with
36:41
something slightly. Better chances because obviously
36:43
Bruno had the header as well, didn't they?
36:45
That was a pretty good chance. So that first half was the
36:47
second-half, yeah, that was another cross that comes in
36:50
towards the near post. And yeah, Bruno, if he's if
36:53
he's. He's going to head it though,
36:55
he's got to allow the header to come to him and he's he's going
36:59
to try and direct to the other side of goal rather than there's
37:03
the Encanto song. We don't talk about Bruno, which
37:07
are referenced in the last part, I think.
37:09
But we need to talk about Bruno because we did this.
37:12
I don't know if it was on the pod, but I know we were
37:15
discussing. We did our combined 11 and then
37:19
I think up post post that part, we were chatting.
37:22
I was like, oh, the thing with the combined 11 is it does it,
37:26
yes, I would put more Spurs in United, but it doesn't account
37:29
for that fact. Often in football, it's
37:32
individuals and moments that can make the difference.
37:34
And I think we're going to win because we have Bruno Fernandez
37:38
and he didn't turn up. And it really depresses me
37:41
because I I spend so much time defending the guy and a lot of
37:44
people would say he doesn't turn up in big games.
37:47
We give the ball away too much. He's a just you know he's tries
37:52
that the the Hollywood pass too much and all of the criticism
37:55
that I hear about Bruno and perpetual and gets worked up.
38:01
I I have nothing to say. All those people are right and
38:04
and I have no. I disagree.
38:06
I know, I know what you're saying.
38:08
You look disappointed with it, but I thought Bruno actually
38:10
kept his head all right. I was more disappointed with
38:12
Maguire. He was loose there for like 10
38:14
minutes at the end of the game up there and I wanted some like,
38:17
you know, hit for him to show his experience and keep a cool
38:20
head. I think that was frustration
38:21
though because he even said himself pre match about he
38:27
doesn't want to be going up front every time trying to say
38:30
United. I don't, I don't think it was
38:32
that. You know what it is?
38:34
I can tell you what it is because I, I have this thing as
38:36
well as Romero is basically cheating.
38:39
And I don't want to sound like Graham Souness and talk about
38:42
Argentinians and Argentinian culture because that's what
38:44
Graham Souness, but you are but Christian Romero himself, right,
38:50
who happens to be from Argentina was basically cheating, right?
38:54
And some people will say, oh, that's part of the game.
38:57
What was he doing? And it's just time roasting.
39:00
Round on the floor there's no reason constantly right
39:03
Richardson was you had got cramp after like 50 odd men.
39:06
Yeah it was I mean that whole thing Jose.
39:08
It was a pure Jose and this is but we're not you know time
39:12
passing South American footballers to do that right not
39:15
just at all. Just to be clear it's a big
39:17
individual exactly Richardson Romero the rest of Argentina and
39:21
Brazil are wonderful people and they would never do anything no
39:24
never would be considered unethical.
39:26
You know, non unsportsmanlike, but he was.
39:28
From McGuire was just like, you know, what is what is going on?
39:31
Like stop being. But I think it's it's all about
39:33
combined, right? Because obviously I think he had
39:36
a couple of physical battles with Romero and yeah, he wasn't
39:40
going to give an inch, which was actually nice to see from
39:43
McGuire. I mean, there's even social
39:45
media footage of after the game. I think it's so Romero goes to
39:50
Dallow. No, actually, Romero goes to
39:52
McGuire. Mcguire's like fuck off.
39:54
He he he just dismissed him because I think Romero had his
39:59
hand out. Romero then goes to Dallow and
40:01
then and you know, Roy Keane talks about this all the time.
40:04
You just lost the final. Why the fuck you hugging?
40:07
You know, shit tells you he sent back from the opposition, but he
40:09
does. And McGuire actually goes over
40:11
to Dallow and like splits them apart and pushes Romero on to be
40:15
like, fuck off. Like, yeah, that's what he was.
40:17
He was fuming like for the last time at the game and into post
40:22
match as well. But I almost feel like there's
40:23
the frustration is because we left too much on the table as a
40:26
team. But like, I want my big players
40:28
to keep their head in that moment.
40:30
I didn't mind it because at the end of the day, he didn't, he
40:34
didn't get sent off. He did get yellow carded, I
40:36
believe. Yeah, he did.
40:37
But you know, I don't think we quite had a chance.
40:40
I think the biggest chance for us, and annoyingly I missed it
40:43
because I think the drinks break was about, I don't know, like
40:45
70. It was during the second-half.
40:47
They did a drinks break. I thought, Oh.
40:49
OK, for I love how you're calling it the drinks.
40:50
Yeah, I know. It's like cricket.
40:52
It wasn't a drinks break, it was again, game man 'smanship by
40:55
Rich Allison I think it was. Oh right.
40:57
Well, everyone, everyone started heading over.
40:59
I thought I was a drink spray. No, I'll go.
41:01
This is what I really know. I can't.
41:04
You see it's a tactic. It's a tactic.
41:06
I thought tactic section, I'm sorry, had you.
41:08
Said what more of their time went Oh.
41:10
I had it in this concourse, went for a wee and then I can hear
41:12
like the crowd go and then it was, I think it was when Hoyland
41:15
had the shark played off the line.
41:17
Yeah, we're talking about, we probably spend 38 minutes
41:20
discussing whether Onana or Vicario, who was our goalkeeper,
41:24
because they're all up, both up for a clanger.
41:26
And it was Vicario who he made some really good saves.
41:29
He made some really. Yeah, we talked about how good a
41:31
shot stopping is, but it was like he was always up for that.
41:35
And he basically somehow decided to miss.
41:37
I think it maybe hit him in the face and it's completely missed
41:40
the ball, didn't catch it. Without any United player around
41:42
him, it really bounds out and and Hoylands there with the
41:45
header and Van De Ven doing some kind of Jean-Claude Van
42:06
He's done everything. With the reason, yeah, he he
42:08
hits the target with the header and like you said, like Van de
42:11
Ven is a tall guy anyway, he's jumping probably like 7 foot up
42:15
in the air, like flicking the ball away with his long legs.
42:18
But I wanted to go back to Bruno quickly because look, at the end
42:22
of the day, it was a disappointing performance.
42:24
But I can't help but feel like, you know, that was imposed on
42:28
him because of the role that he had within the team to play next
42:31
to Casimiro. You don't need to pass the ball
42:34
to the opposition. In in the first or second-half,
42:38
you're talking about the whole game.
42:39
The game also, not too much, but obviously he got desperate,
42:43
right because he's swinging in crosses and swinging balls.
42:46
In the first half he was. Sloppy.
42:48
He was sloppy, but he was trying.
42:49
He was trying to. Trying too hard and and I think
42:53
earlier in this in other parts of the season when he's played
42:56
that midfield role, he hasn't. And to me, when we talked about
42:59
before the game, the big players, their mentality being
43:03
the differentiator that we you've just discussed McGuire,
43:06
we can also talk about Casimiro didn't, didn't turn up for this
43:10
game. Bruno Fernandez didn't turn up
43:12
for this game. The people that were in our
43:15
make, well, I don't think McGuire got in the combined 11,
43:17
but we said Casimiro, we said Bruno Fernandez.
43:21
The big players didn't show themselves.
43:24
I don't think the Spurs did anything.
43:28
Amazing, right, But you want those those guys to produce that
43:32
moment and they didn't produce. You say that, though, And this
43:36
is the thing. Obviously when you go to matches
43:38
like the difference in terms of pressing from spurs, like a Papa
43:42
saw my God, like he he presses that like gear six in a car.
43:48
And you know, when we press, it's like Gear 2, like the
43:51
physical difference in terms of like the speed of which Spurs
43:55
press. Is so far ahead of us, which
43:58
shows why we finished 17 or going to finish 16 or 17 in the
44:02
lead. Yeah.
44:03
I mean, I wouldn't call it. I mean, whether you call it
44:06
pressing or not, presume it's physical as a minimum.
44:11
And they, you know, it was their physical right in the in the
44:16
midfield. That doesn't mean that you're
44:18
under much. I don't think Bruno was under
44:20
huge pressure in those situations.
44:22
No, but he gets less time compared to like probably.
44:25
What even think you said training?
44:27
Play it simple, Yeah. I mean play it simple.
44:31
In these games when you when you run up in the final, you need to
44:35
maintain composure. You want to you want to dominate
44:39
the ball and not just not give away easy.
44:41
Possession and play into Spurs, his hands.
44:44
I almost feel like there was a bit of nervousness even with
44:46
Bruno in terms of like it's the final.
44:50
No, there was, but that's my point.
44:51
He's but he's not playing his natural role.
44:53
Like I know he's had like amazing games and he was man of
44:55
the match at like Anfield and stuff, but his best role still
44:59
is a #10. So this then comes back to
45:01
Ruben. I'm more touch on Ruben post
45:03
match, right. So you're kind of making the
45:04
point that you feel like Bruno could have been played in a
45:06
different position and may have performed better.
45:08
Yeah, is what you get now. But I think, yeah, I think we've
45:11
covered the main chances. The only other one I think was
45:13
the Garnacho shot where he cut in.
45:16
It was a good save, right? And it just shows you Garnacho a
45:20
lot of lot of flaws. I think he's missed a
45:25
significant number of chances this season, but he's the one
45:29
guy that can take take take on as well as Ahmad who's come back
45:33
from injury and make and make something happen.
45:36
And and This is why I think that and I can the this the the the
45:41
tweet, is it or the Instagram or what you youngsters use your
45:45
social media things. What is it?
45:46
The Facebook? I think it was.
45:48
It that's yours that that that you know the tip toe.
45:52
Rick has disappoint expressed his disappointment that he'd
45:55
played. Well, his brother initially and.
45:57
Then then him and and and I understand that in that in a
46:02
mountainous barely contributed this season and comes in and
46:05
starts ahead of him. And when he came on, he did
46:10
provide. And I do think that it's sort of
46:14
where you can as much as you might not think I'm actually the
46:18
guy in this team. What this team lacks is what he
46:22
has, which is that ability to drive at the opposition, take
46:26
them on and he should have been on earlier in my potentially
46:31
even started. But even even if he hasn't
46:33
started. Get him on early.
46:35
Get him on much earlier than we let the game drift too much in
46:38
that first when you're 1 nil down, you've got to get him on
46:40
early to, you know, to give yourself a chance.
46:42
And I think that's the thing. Should have been on at half
46:44
time, yeah. I think that's why the fans are
46:46
pissed, right, because we didn't give ourselves enough chances to
46:50
like even with the substitutes like give yourselves like good
46:53
3540 minutes to go and have a go.
46:56
The Man United somehow, like even when the clock was 90 and
46:59
it was plus 7 still felt we were going to get a gold.
47:02
And then maybe that's the heritage and that's the the
47:04
crazy part, right? The league show charm.
47:06
Yeah, still comes in that period.
47:08
That was the one. And when that doesn't go
47:09
anything, OK, yeah, you know, it's not happening tonight.
47:12
And then, yeah, obviously the full time whistle goes and then
47:15
the reality kicks in. The scenario that we couldn't
47:18
contemplate pre match of Spurs winning happened obviously an
47:23
element of shock on our side, the United side, Spurs fans
47:26
going crazy. I think the shock though, it was
47:30
almost like because of the way the game went, it was like
47:32
sleepwalking into it anyway because you can see it coming.
47:36
I could feel it coming. Obviously we wanted to get out
47:38
of there straight away. When I left, I saw I think maybe
47:42
like 12 year old United fan in the concourse bawling his eyes
47:46
out, not really sorry for him and told him to keep his head
47:49
up. But you know his age, he's only
47:51
seen, you know, well, you could say we won trophies, but you
47:54
know, he's seen a very rocky Man United cannot feel.
47:57
Not a very good one compared to even me and obviously you guys.
48:01
Well, I was. Bawling my eyes out on run
48:03
shoulder. You know, your thing.
48:05
So. So, yeah, I was speaking to my
48:07
nephew at home. I mean, he's way too young to
48:09
know this final, but it was a shame that his first, you know,
48:12
major final. Like, this is the thing.
48:14
This is what really gets me. It was the Spurs.
48:17
That's what I really struggle with.
48:19
Yeah, I can take it if it was like Arsenal, Chelsea, but to
48:24
lose the Spurs is just the hammer blow and just, you know,
48:27
punch like I. Say I, I I feel.
48:29
Differently because there's the Spurs for every Spurs fan I've
48:35
met No, it's not to do with Spurs fan.
48:37
It's just the notion. It's the banter.
48:40
FC Lassard, Spurs, it's all that.
48:43
Not a clown, mate. Yeah yeah, it is embarrassing.
48:45
You can't, you cannot, no. But there any other way in terms
48:48
of? The emotion versus a Chelsea or
48:51
Arsenal, I think there's a level of hatred I have there.
48:54
I I just don't have it with the because if the lads.
48:57
It's nothing like if if we were playing one of them teams, it
49:00
would have been in the city. Whereas the embarrassment, it's
49:03
the embarrassment. Yeah, I get what you're saying
49:06
though. I.
49:06
Don't feel I feel already embarrassed that I can't be
49:10
embarrassed anymore. Do you know what I mean?
49:12
Like I think that's you just trying to close off from what
49:14
happened in terms of being upset and sad.
49:18
I've told you I'm me and Bill, right?
49:21
But in terms of embarrassment, it's love.
49:23
It's we're already so embarrassed.
49:25
It's rock bottom. It's rock bottom and I didn't
49:27
have a group of fans like putting it to me, but it was it
49:33
was it was a weird thing where we it was a good atmosphere
49:36
amongst the different support base.
49:38
Yeah, yeah, while. If it would, it'd been Arsenal
49:41
nailing popping into us, yeah. Because it's not a key driver,
49:44
Is it united? Yeah, it's not the.
49:45
Same. Obviously we're all guttler.
49:47
No, we don't have to play in it, but no, no, no, I was gonna make
49:50
a different point. What was really interesting
49:52
about this final? Like obviously as United fans,
49:55
you always feel like the whole world is against you when it
49:58
comes to the opposition fans had so many messages from like
50:02
Arsenal fans W sports fans. This is football though.
50:05
No no no saying like gutted you didn't win but no Oh I see right
50:10
chill. Yeah, you know, they were gutted
50:13
though. We didn't win because they
50:14
fucking hate Spurs more because they're all oh, I didn't get
50:17
only Liverpool right, they're the Prince welcome that I didn't
50:20
I fairly. Even Salad was tweeting.
50:22
Yeah. I mean, it's just.
50:23
Like what? I mean like they're I'm so
50:25
obsessed with that Carriger Lancets.
50:26
You know, we we know that last football wasn't it the banters
50:30
going to come, but you know, whichever way you frame it.
50:32
Look, it's rock. It's rock box.
50:35
We're at we're at the bottom. I think I know Ash now has a
50:39
flight to catch. So he he he's potentially got to
50:41
run, but we're going to have to do the we're at rock bottom.
50:44
And how do we get out get out of this podcast?
50:47
I know that I know I've said I've retired from the podcasting
50:50
scene at the but you know what? You may love Muhammad Ali out
50:53
for episode 26, Steve, if you pay me, you know.
50:56
The rebuild begins, and I think there's a lot to get into in the
51:00
rebuild. But before we wrap up, we do
51:02
just have to touch on, like, briefly, the repercussions of
51:05
this defeat because do we? Yeah, Because, well, you can
51:09
touch on it. I'll go and fight to catch so.
51:11
Well, very quickly. You know, I think you sometime
51:16
in March, February, kind of gave up on Reuben.
51:18
I'm guessing this only adds to that feeling.
51:21
Yeah. I mean, like, even if the
51:23
performance was better than what it would have been, I I probably
51:27
would have said the same. And the fact that it was the
51:29
performance that happened, it just doesn't change my mind at
51:33
all that I still think we should change.
51:35
Yeah, that's fair enough. And as you still, you know,
51:38
sticking by your plan and you're sticking with Ruben.
51:41
I think at this point, I think the emotions are really raw at
51:44
the moment because we're like the day after the game and I'm
51:48
not someone that wants to make rash decisions.
51:53
So I think what we should do is maybe, you know, close this one
51:56
off and Ash, you'll be back in London.
51:59
Me and Steve, we got a nice day to spend in San Sebastian put
52:04
get get a bit of sun, maybe go to the beach, relax, calm down,
52:08
recover. Get some cheesecake.
52:11
Bit of cheesecake Gelato, have some, have some Gelato, get, get
52:16
some nice lunch. And maybe we should do another
52:19
podcast where we, where we talk about this because I think it's,
52:22
it's, it deserves its own thing. What we're going to do, what
52:27
we're going to do going forward, some great coffee options.
52:30
So you know. Yeah, get a latte, Quartardo.
52:33
I mean, that's the one thing I have to say about this trip.
52:35
I've really, really enjoyed this trip.
52:37
Bilbao, beautiful city, the surrounding area.
52:41
San Sebastian. Yeah.
52:42
I highly recommend to anyone who's thinking about a holiday
52:45
north of Spain. Best country?
52:47
People have been very nice, welcoming them, both real young
52:50
people, yeah, really good people.
52:53
And I've seen lots of Palestine flags around, so it just warmed
52:57
my heart given what's going on at the moment.
52:59
So yeah, shout out to Spain, one of the few countries that is.
53:03
You know, massive shout out flags everywhere.
53:05
Love it. At the government level as well,
53:07
called out the genocide. So yeah, great place to go.
53:11
So I highly recommend if you're looking for going on holiday,
53:15
stay away from Germany and come. To Spain, well there's a bit of
53:18
perspective because you know football is just a game you
53:21
could say, but obviously it means a lot to us.
53:23
The rebuild pod will be coming. Think it's not going to be 1
53:26
episode, it's going to be multiple.
53:28
But yeah, we've got Aston Villa on Sunday at Old Trafford.
53:33
That's going to be interesting. There's a protest plan against
53:36
the ownership. Will you be there?
53:38
I'm not planning to go to the game, but joining the protest
53:41
sounds more. I did say pretty much if we lose
53:45
this, the heat is going to turn on the ownership and you need to
53:49
get into that subject. That's what I mean.
53:51
No shape, just seeing where are you my friend?
53:53
Are you real? Is there another AI generated
53:56
Atari figure that they can pull out to front of the bid testable
54:00
to another AI generate generation we could get from
54:04
maybe Saudi? Yeah, exactly.
54:06
So there's lots to talk about. So yeah, I don't think we are
54:09
ending this podcast. If anything you could probably
54:12
argue if we don't want it would have been great.
54:14
Yes, obviously. But having lost, having hit rock
54:18
button, the climb now to the top, we're going to be
54:22
documenting it the whole way. So maybe this was meant to be,
54:25
maybe it was written in the stars that we lose, we hit rock
54:27
bottom and the journey back to the top will be even more sweet.
54:31
And there's our Jay Humphrey moment for the pod, us and us
54:34
and the positive. Give me one positive sign or
54:37
something to buy into And can you give me any give us some
54:40
magic. You got anything left now a day
54:42
later? Have you got a touch I've?
54:46
I've got a wonderful cheesecake shop that I'm going to visit and
54:49
I'm going to drown my sorrows and stick my goodness, take my
54:52
top off and dive right in, as Greg Wallace would say.
54:55
Devour OK, And on that bombshell, we'll wrap it up
54:59
there. Thanks for tuning in and we'll
55:01
catch you on the next episode. I'm not a clown, mate.
55:04
We're the fucking clowns. I'm.