Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Arkansas serial killer eludes cops

Transcript

Arkansas serial killer eludes cops · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Is a serial killer walking
0:15
Speaker 1: the streets of Little Rock. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
0:19
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
0:22
Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Series XM one eleven. It's really hard
0:26
Speaker 1: to think of a modern day serial killer. We think
0:30
Speaker 1: of serial killers in the past, long ago, Jack the Ripper,
0:34
Speaker 1: not that distant past, such as btk by torture killed
0:40
Speaker 1: Dennish Raider. It goes on and on. But to think
0:43
Speaker 1: a serial killer is walking amongst us right now in
0:47
Speaker 1: downtown Little Rock. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We begin
1:04
Speaker 1: with developing news out of Little Rock, where police are
1:07
Speaker 1: investigating a suspicious death on West twelfth Street. We reported
1:11
Speaker 1: it as a homicide investigation earlier this morning, but police
1:15
Speaker 1: have since reclassified this statement, saying it was not readily
1:19
Speaker 1: apparent to call it a homicide until after the autopsy
1:22
Speaker 1: report comes back, and then very quickly the news change take.
1:27
Speaker 1: You were listening to our friend Mallory Brooks at KARK four.
1:30
Speaker 1: Here are friends Bob Clawson and Laura Monteverde at KARK four.
1:35
Speaker 1: Is an urgent safeueler tonight. Little Rock police say it's
1:37
Speaker 1: possible one man is responsible for multiple deadly knife attacks
1:41
Speaker 1: in the city. Authorities say the possible serial killer started
1:45
Speaker 1: his attacks last year, the latest two just this month.
1:49
Speaker 1: Pass he taken a pause and now reignited his desire
1:53
Speaker 1: to kill. With me an all star panel to make
1:55
Speaker 1: sense of it all. Joining us Brenda in Stallings from
2:01
Speaker 1: Little Rock trial lawyer deputy public defender there and you
2:05
Speaker 1: can find her at Brenda Stallings dot com. Doctor Sherry schwartzaid, boy,
2:10
Speaker 1: do we need a shrink? Forensics psychologists specializing in cases
2:15
Speaker 1: just like this at panther Mitigation dot com and she
2:18
Speaker 1: is the author of Criminal Behavior and Where Law and
2:22
Speaker 1: Psychology Intersect with me. Forensics expert Professor Forensics Jacksonall State University,
2:29
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, and star
2:33
Speaker 1: of Poisonous Liaisons on the True Crime Network Joseph Scott Morgan.
2:37
Speaker 1: But first to Levi Page Crime online dot com investigative reporter.
2:41
Speaker 1: You can also find me a crime and Scandal true
2:44
Speaker 1: crime podcast Levi. What is Happening in Arkansas? Well, Nancy,
2:49
Speaker 1: this is a very scary situation in Little Rock. There
2:52
Speaker 1: have been four stabbings and there's this nice hoping man
2:58
Speaker 1: that is roaming the streets in the wee hours of
3:01
Speaker 1: the morning. We have four nice attacks that happened, started
3:06
Speaker 1: happening in August of twenty twenty and the latest in
3:10
Speaker 1: April of this year. Three of the victims died, they
3:13
Speaker 1: were murdered, and one of the victims, one victim in
3:16
Speaker 1: this case that fifteen times, survived. So this has been
3:20
Speaker 1: going on for a year, Nancy, and people in that
3:24
Speaker 1: area are really scared. Are you telling me I've got
3:26
Speaker 1: four dead bodies and one survivor or four victims in all?
3:30
Speaker 1: You have three people that have passed away, that were
3:34
Speaker 1: murdered in one that survived. And I bet you anything,
3:40
Speaker 1: Jessica Morgan, there are other victims that have not been
3:44
Speaker 1: attributed to this one person. But let me break down
3:48
Speaker 1: as best as I can, and everybody in the panel
3:50
Speaker 1: jump in. This is no time for the faint at heart.
3:55
Speaker 1: Just jump in when you have a thought. This is
3:57
Speaker 1: happening right now. Our insight may be able to help
4:02
Speaker 1: the case. First of you, Joe Scott Morgan, death investigator,
4:07
Speaker 1: to determine whether the same person is responsible for all
4:11
Speaker 1: these knifing attacks. You've got one good eyewitness. I hope
4:15
Speaker 1: the person that lived, although they may have been attacked
4:18
Speaker 1: from behind and didn't see who attacked them. But the
4:21
Speaker 1: mode of the knifings, for instance, is that for instance O. J.
4:27
Speaker 1: Simpson style where you slash the person across the neck
4:33
Speaker 1: the way he did Nicole Brown? Is that multiple stab
4:35
Speaker 1: winds to the back. Does the killer stab the person
4:39
Speaker 1: and their sexual parts like their breasts or their genitals?
4:44
Speaker 1: It happens are they attacked and while they're down stabbed.
4:49
Speaker 1: All of these emos modus operendi method of operation will
4:53
Speaker 1: help determine is it the same knifer? And also what
4:57
Speaker 1: can we learn from the wound themselves, Joe Scott, The
5:01
Speaker 1: type of knife, the depth of the blade, help me out.
5:06
Speaker 1: How can we determine based on the physical evidence alone.
5:10
Speaker 1: Just let's say we don't have any eyewitnesses that this
5:14
Speaker 1: is the same purpose. Yeah, what we're looking for, Nancy,
5:16
Speaker 1: at autopsy in particular with these three victims that that
5:20
Speaker 1: have been murdered, is you're gonna want to try to
5:23
Speaker 1: put together a profile of the weapon itself and some
5:26
Speaker 1: things we can learn at autopsy. Is this a double
5:28
Speaker 1: bladed knife it doesn't have two edges on it, or
5:33
Speaker 1: is this a single bladed knife where it has one
5:36
Speaker 1: leading edge and it has a blunt side. Also, it
5:39
Speaker 1: doesn't hold down. Hold on joscot, Hey, I'm trying to
5:43
Speaker 1: write down everything you say. But when you say a
5:46
Speaker 1: single edge, you mean typically like the kind we would
5:49
Speaker 1: use in the kitchen, like a butcher knife. It's only
5:52
Speaker 1: on one side. Yeah, yeah, you would. Yeah, and more
5:55
Speaker 1: than likely if this guy is using the same weapon,
5:58
Speaker 1: because keep in mind, lots of people that serialized crimes,
6:01
Speaker 1: they like to go back to the same instruments that
6:04
Speaker 1: they are used to using. So if he's using the
6:07
Speaker 1: same weapon over and over again, you have to think
6:10
Speaker 1: because people don't realize this. I've worked a lot of
6:13
Speaker 1: cases where we have stabbings and the knife will actually
6:16
Speaker 1: break off in the body. So he wants something that's
6:19
Speaker 1: going to be We haven't been that lucky yet because
6:22
Speaker 1: I don't think the weapon or any part of the
6:25
Speaker 1: weapon has been recovered. Leavey Page, Do we have a
6:28
Speaker 1: weapon yet? Did he leave the weapon anywhere? Was part
6:31
Speaker 1: of the weapon found in any of the bodies, Nancy,
6:34
Speaker 1: We don't know any of that information. Law enforcement is
6:37
Speaker 1: keeping that very close to their vest I guarantee of
6:40
Speaker 1: Brenda Stallings. There would have been a leak somewhere from
6:44
Speaker 1: the Little Rock PD or with the press if they
6:47
Speaker 1: had found the weapon. Brenda, that's your neck of the woods.
6:50
Speaker 1: What do you think I think they have not found
6:52
Speaker 1: a weapon. Why do you think that. I believe that
6:56
Speaker 1: the Little Right Police Department is doing everything they can,
6:59
Speaker 1: along with the Little Rock Police Chief, to let us
7:01
Speaker 1: know as a community. Not only am I an attorney here,
7:05
Speaker 1: but I live in the area. So we have been
7:09
Speaker 1: we being our mayor, Frank Scott, our Downtown Neighborhood Association President,
7:14
Speaker 1: serial Pulture, we have all been in communication with our
7:18
Speaker 1: neighbors to make sure everybody is safe. So they are
7:21
Speaker 1: communicating with us. The most up to date information, and
7:24
Speaker 1: the information we have is that one is they are
7:28
Speaker 1: not calling it a serial killer because there is no
7:32
Speaker 1: link at this time and there is no weapon. Okay,
7:36
Speaker 1: I know they're not calling it a serial killer, but
7:40
Speaker 1: I don't have to answer up to the Department of
7:42
Speaker 1: Public Information. I can call it like I said, And
7:46
Speaker 1: I think at least at least three of the four
7:50
Speaker 1: are connected. They are all occurring between I guess around
7:55
Speaker 1: eleven am to four am. Note one am four am.
8:01
Speaker 1: That's one am to four am. And they're all occurring
8:03
Speaker 1: in a particular area. There has been a video that
8:09
Speaker 1: has been released. We don't know if this is the man,
8:12
Speaker 1: but this is a suspect and they're all knife things.
8:17
Speaker 1: I'm very curious if the knife things are similar. You
8:20
Speaker 1: know what, Joe Scott, I went off on a tangent
8:22
Speaker 1: with Brenda Stallings. Guys, you can find Brenda at Brenda
8:26
Speaker 1: Stallings dot com. A veteran trial lawyer. Here's the deal.
8:31
Speaker 1: You can't be a trial lawyer in the DA's office
8:35
Speaker 1: or the Public Defender's office without being a veteran trial lawyer.
8:40
Speaker 1: Because the case has come fast and furious and you've
8:43
Speaker 1: got to either take a plea or you've got to
8:45
Speaker 1: go to trial. Those are your two choices. So unless
8:49
Speaker 1: you're in appeals, or you're in deadbeat dads or you
8:54
Speaker 1: draw up indictments, you're in there trying cases pretty much.
8:59
Speaker 1: So if you want to find or go to Brenda
9:01
Speaker 1: Stallings dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace come back
9:18
Speaker 1: to you, Joe Scott Morgan, you were saying before I
9:21
Speaker 1: so rudely interrupted about the profile of the weapon itself.
9:27
Speaker 1: So one quick thing now, according to Levi page these
9:31
Speaker 1: crimes started in August twenty twenty and we're now at
9:35
Speaker 1: April twenty twenty one. I wonder how many other knife
9:40
Speaker 1: deaths could be attributed to the same person, And why
9:43
Speaker 1: do you think they're not calling it a serial killer. Well,
9:46
Speaker 1: that that is the interesting point. They might not be
9:48
Speaker 1: fitting the same profile where the police or maybe the
9:52
Speaker 1: state police have become involved at this point in tom
9:55
Speaker 1: where there's they have this connection that's going on. But look,
9:58
Speaker 1: if I've got someone that's going to and stabbing people,
10:01
Speaker 1: there's going to be at some level within that department
10:04
Speaker 1: a connection that's being made. And trust me, they're looking
10:07
Speaker 1: at this now. As to the weapon itself, some of
10:11
Speaker 1: the other things we're going to look for are going
10:13
Speaker 1: to be like, just so folks understand, if you have
10:16
Speaker 1: a hunting knife, you'll have what's referred to as a
10:18
Speaker 1: hilt and it kind of protects the hand. It's a
10:21
Speaker 1: kind of a metal bridge a lot. And then maybe
10:26
Speaker 1: you can actually have and depended upon the level of violence,
10:29
Speaker 1: you can have a hilt mark on the body that
10:32
Speaker 1: comes when don't we just do a quick demo. A
10:35
Speaker 1: hilt would be like forming a little cross, yes, yes,
10:39
Speaker 1: and the holds the knife and the hilt protects his
10:45
Speaker 1: or her hand from going down the blade. Okay, go ahead, Yeah,
10:49
Speaker 1: And so depended upon the amount of force that's left
10:52
Speaker 1: that that occurs, you can actually bruise the body or
10:56
Speaker 1: cantoose the body where it makes contact. Where you bury
10:59
Speaker 1: that knife to the body, they'll form a bruise there
11:02
Speaker 1: multiple bruise the body, or at least read in the body.
11:05
Speaker 1: I wonder if they found any of that, are thought
11:08
Speaker 1: to look for that in the autopsies. Go ahead, place. Yeah,
11:11
Speaker 1: And here's another interesting thing. You know, knives are in
11:14
Speaker 1: different qualities. Nancy, and we talked about you know how
11:16
Speaker 1: I talked about how sometimes nice will break off. Well,
11:19
Speaker 1: they're not necessarily going to break off, but sometimes if
11:22
Speaker 1: if if a knife passes through bone, it'll leave little
11:25
Speaker 1: metal flex in the bone. And if these bodies are
11:28
Speaker 1: being X rayed, you can actually see this little metal
11:32
Speaker 1: storm that takes place. If they can get to those
11:35
Speaker 1: little flecks of metal, they might can actually do metallurgy
11:38
Speaker 1: on the metal that's left behind, and they can make
11:42
Speaker 1: a determination of the origin of the blade. Now that's
11:45
Speaker 1: kind of a long shot, but that's some of the
11:46
Speaker 1: things that we're going to look for and not to
11:49
Speaker 1: mention the nature of the stab wounds you had mentioned earlier.
11:52
Speaker 1: Is this an attack from behind or is it a
11:55
Speaker 1: forward facing attack? The individual approach from the rear. This
11:59
Speaker 1: is not like shooting somebody, Nancy. This is a very
12:02
Speaker 1: you're getting into, doctor Sherry Schwartz, is territory. We need
12:05
Speaker 1: a shrink right now. And remember everybody on the pannel
12:08
Speaker 1: jump in guys, that we're talking about a serial killer
12:12
Speaker 1: potentially roaming the streets of Little Rock tipline five zero
12:17
Speaker 1: one three seven one four six three six repeat five
12:21
Speaker 1: O one three seven one four six three to six,
12:25
Speaker 1: or you can just email ask LARPD Little Rock PD
12:30
Speaker 1: at Little Rock dot gov. Doctor Sherry Schwartz. I find
12:34
Speaker 1: it keenly interesting that after nearly a seven month hiatus,
12:39
Speaker 1: the alleged serial killer has resumed hunting victims, breaking the
12:44
Speaker 1: hiatus with forty three year old Debrah Walker the morning
12:48
Speaker 1: of April eleven, about one month ago. What does the
12:52
Speaker 1: hiatus mean to you? Could he have been in jail.
12:55
Speaker 1: That's a very very good possibility. Possibly in jail, but
12:59
Speaker 1: we also know from Dennis Raider BTK right he killed
13:03
Speaker 1: ten victims over what was it a thirty ish year period.
13:07
Speaker 1: So with serial killers, it's not uncommon to see a
13:10
Speaker 1: cooling off period varies by serial killers, if that's in
13:15
Speaker 1: fact what we're dealing with here, but it's it's not
13:18
Speaker 1: entirely uncommon. But yes, of course he could have been
13:21
Speaker 1: in jail going about his daily life and playing about
13:28
Speaker 1: his daily life, Doctor Sherry Schwartz, what daily life the
13:33
Speaker 1: man is out and about between one o'clock and four
13:35
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning. Do you think he's got a job? Well?
13:40
Speaker 1: He in some ways sometimes this is their job, right
13:44
Speaker 1: they you know, are planning their next attack. This is
13:48
Speaker 1: somebody who is stabbing people, so they clearly like killing.
13:53
Speaker 1: They like the blood, they like the gore. When you're
13:56
Speaker 1: stabbing someone, you're you're up close and personal, right, So,
14:00
Speaker 1: but I imagine too, this is more Joe Scott Morgan's area.
14:04
Speaker 1: But it takes a lot of physical effort. So even
14:07
Speaker 1: with that thing on the knife that you all were
14:10
Speaker 1: discussing once there's a lot of blood, I imagine your
14:13
Speaker 1: hands are slipping, right, so you might need some healing
14:16
Speaker 1: time in between. So it's a really, really troubling way
14:22
Speaker 1: to kill people anyway, you kill people is not great,
14:25
Speaker 1: but this is particularly troubling. You know. I want to
14:27
Speaker 1: follow up on something you're bringing up about what Joe
14:30
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan said, Joe Scott, what you were saying about
14:33
Speaker 1: particles of the knife actually breaking off in the body
14:37
Speaker 1: if they come in contact with bone. You know how,
14:40
Speaker 1: for instance, paint off a car that's involved in a
14:46
Speaker 1: hit and run can be analyzed and you can determine
14:50
Speaker 1: what car, what kind of paint it is, and what
14:53
Speaker 1: that professional car paint, what car it was used on.
14:58
Speaker 1: For instance, Nissan, Mercedes Bins don't use the same silver.
15:02
Speaker 1: They make their own, so you're going to find different
15:05
Speaker 1: components in each of those paints, even though they both
15:08
Speaker 1: look silver. I wonder if knife or knife particles metal
15:13
Speaker 1: particles in the body caught on bone, have ever been
15:18
Speaker 1: analyzed in that way so it give be traced back
15:21
Speaker 1: to a particular knife. Have you ever heard of that,
15:23
Speaker 1: because I just thought of it. Has that ever been done? Well? Yeah,
15:26
Speaker 1: And there is a division within tool marks, and you
15:32
Speaker 1: know where they'll look for metallurgical signatures, and metallurgical is
15:36
Speaker 1: essentially a fancy way of talking about the chemical structure
15:40
Speaker 1: of metallic bodies. Why do you talk like that. We're
15:43
Speaker 1: not an eighth grade science for Pete's sake. Are you
15:46
Speaker 1: saying the knife is made up of how much iron?
15:48
Speaker 1: How much? And I don't know. They did not teach
15:52
Speaker 1: me metallurgy in law school. But you're looking for the components,
15:56
Speaker 1: the exact components in the metal of the knife to
16:00
Speaker 1: trace it back to the type of knife. So they
16:02
Speaker 1: do do that, Yeah, they can the FBI. Well, yeah,
16:07
Speaker 1: it would have to be the FBI that I can't
16:09
Speaker 1: imagine the Arkansas State Crime Lab would would be able
16:12
Speaker 1: to have that ability. But it's that's very rare. Yeah
16:16
Speaker 1: it is. But here's something that has has more of
16:20
Speaker 1: a point to it. I think, just like doctor Sherry
16:22
Speaker 1: was saying, this is a very very intimate event. Keep
16:25
Speaker 1: in mind they're up close and personal and many times
16:28
Speaker 1: with stab wounds, when you particularly get multiple stab wounds,
16:31
Speaker 1: it's a frenzied event. Perpetrator perpetrator A good point. Leave
16:36
Speaker 1: my page. Isn't it true that the victim I just
16:39
Speaker 1: told you about, Deborah Walker, was stabbed fifteen times. That
16:44
Speaker 1: sounds like a frenzy Yeah, So the case that you're
16:46
Speaker 1: talking about Nancy on April eleventh, she was stabbed fifteen times.
16:52
Speaker 1: She's forty three years old. That happened at three am
16:56
Speaker 1: in in Little Rock on the street, and this was
17:00
Speaker 1: so random. Shoes to fifteen times and survived. She was
17:04
Speaker 1: able to give a description of this knife wielding maniac
17:08
Speaker 1: to police. She said that he was over six feet tall,
17:13
Speaker 1: slender and African American. I'm looking at a Matt Jack
17:17
Speaker 1: you just sent me. Saw what you sent me, Jack,
17:19
Speaker 1: and you can see, Oh yeah, I'm telling you this
17:23
Speaker 1: is the same guy. Brenda Stallings. This is your town,
17:27
Speaker 1: this is in your backyard, and you may very well
17:30
Speaker 1: be representing this guy, which will be a death penalty
17:33
Speaker 1: case obviously. But I'm looking at the map between the
17:37
Speaker 1: Little Rock Zoo and I thirty. They're all right there.
17:44
Speaker 1: They don't look like they're from this map. They don't
17:48
Speaker 1: look like they're each eight blocks of heart. Well, Nancy,
17:52
Speaker 1: I can say that for a Little Rock, we do
17:54
Speaker 1: consider it different neighborhood. So Little Rock is not as
17:59
Speaker 1: big as maybe a big metropolitan city like you know,
18:02
Speaker 1: Atlanta or Detroit. But in here Little Rock, it is
18:06
Speaker 1: different neighborhood. So I can't see how where if you
18:10
Speaker 1: look on a map it looks like it's about eight block,
18:12
Speaker 1: which is more than eight block. Crime stories with Nancy Grace,
18:31
Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in Lottle Rock. My
18:33
Speaker 1: now husband worked for a group out of Little Rock,
18:38
Speaker 1: and I'm looking right at it. This is the downtown
18:43
Speaker 1: area south of North Little Rock and not too far
18:48
Speaker 1: from the Little Rock Zoo. Guys, take a listen to
18:51
Speaker 1: the Little Rock police chief. His name is Chief Keith Humphrey.
18:57
Speaker 1: As Little Rock is on high alert. Listen. In early
19:01
Speaker 1: April of twenty twenty one, our communications department received a
19:05
Speaker 1: call of a cutting in progress. We responded. The victim
19:09
Speaker 1: in this case lived and spoke with detectives about the experience.
19:14
Speaker 1: Days later, we investigated a homicide where a lifeless body
19:17
Speaker 1: was found on Right Avenue. Detectives took information from those
19:22
Speaker 1: two cases and compared them to two homicides from six
19:25
Speaker 1: months ago and noted similarities in all four cases. It
19:31
Speaker 1: was determined then that these incidents could possibly be connected
19:34
Speaker 1: based off the evidence in each case. Therefore, I need
19:39
Speaker 1: to notify the public exists without compromising these investigations, I
19:45
Speaker 1: could say for certain that these incidents happened in the
19:48
Speaker 1: Midtown area. They also occurred between the hours of one
19:52
Speaker 1: am and four am. Those who were walking in the
19:56
Speaker 1: area were randomly attacked. So attacks in the area now
20:01
Speaker 1: listen to Mitch McCoy k A r K four. We
20:05
Speaker 1: know it's a man and we know that he's about
20:08
Speaker 1: six feet tall or tall lure. So that's what we know.
20:12
Speaker 1: We know that the FBI is helping the Little Rock
20:14
Speaker 1: Police Department out in this investigation. I was actually just
20:17
Speaker 1: talking to some of my contacts at the FBI. Were
20:21
Speaker 1: told that they are using agents from the FBI's Behavioral
20:25
Speaker 1: Analysis Unit, which is kind of like that Criminal Minds
20:28
Speaker 1: TV show Mallory where they try to get into the
20:31
Speaker 1: minds of killers. So that unit has involved. That unit's
20:34
Speaker 1: based out of Quantico. We know that they're giving info
20:37
Speaker 1: to LRPD. We're also being told that the FBI is
20:39
Speaker 1: helping them use technology to help clean up surveillance photos. Okay,
20:44
Speaker 1: you know what this is what I know. Justice Scott Morgan,
20:47
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics. The FBI is very rarely involved in a murder,
20:54
Speaker 1: A single murder the only time I knew anyway, Sometimes
20:59
Speaker 1: they're involved and you don't know it. The FANS were
21:01
Speaker 1: involved in one of my cases literally thousands of cases
21:05
Speaker 1: I handle. I just thought it was a triple homicide.
21:08
Speaker 1: What I didn't know is that one of the perps
21:12
Speaker 1: had been under FBI surveillance and surveillance by the d
21:17
Speaker 1: EA for a long time for dope dealing, being actually
21:20
Speaker 1: a drug lord. See, I didn't know that our case
21:23
Speaker 1: is intersected. But it took that for there to be
21:26
Speaker 1: any kind of federal involvement. When you get the FBI
21:29
Speaker 1: picking through your case, you got a whopper. What do
21:34
Speaker 1: you do? And listen, going back to you, you were
21:37
Speaker 1: mentioning with doctor Sherry just a few months ago about
21:40
Speaker 1: this pause that took place. What if what if this
21:44
Speaker 1: individually traveled somewhere else? You know, another close town that's
21:48
Speaker 1: kind of big, that is big relative to Little Rock
21:53
Speaker 1: geographically speaking, is Memphis. If this guy goes to Memphis,
21:56
Speaker 1: what if they've got stabbings in Memphis? Or you know
21:59
Speaker 1: what if I don't know, what if you go down
22:01
Speaker 1: to Streeport that's not too far away. You know what
22:04
Speaker 1: if he's you know, kind of migrating around and you
22:07
Speaker 1: start to get these pauses, but he's always you really
22:12
Speaker 1: see him going to Memphis if he's on foot. And
22:15
Speaker 1: another thing I want to talk about and please jump in.
22:18
Speaker 1: Brenda Stallings and doctor Sherry sports to you the thing
22:21
Speaker 1: that he's attacking at random. These are not people he
22:26
Speaker 1: knows guys. Doctor Sherry, think on that a moment. Take
22:29
Speaker 1: a listen to more from Miss McCoy k r K.
22:32
Speaker 1: There are four total knife attacks, only one survivor. Little
22:36
Speaker 1: Rock Police say the victims were pedestrians. They are spread
22:40
Speaker 1: between South gain Street, West twelfth Street, Nineteenth near Marshall
22:45
Speaker 1: and Wright Avenue. Two attacks happened last year, the latest
22:49
Speaker 1: two were earlier this month. They all happened in the
22:52
Speaker 1: overnight hours. The victims, who appear to be at random,
22:56
Speaker 1: are between ages forty and sixty four. Three are men,
23:00
Speaker 1: one is a woman. The only survivor was stabbed fifteen times.
23:04
Speaker 1: Little Rock Police calling this person a possible suspect. They
23:07
Speaker 1: say he's a man about six foot. There are no
23:10
Speaker 1: other details available, but LARPD is asking people to send
23:15
Speaker 1: in their home surveillance camera footage if they notice anything
23:18
Speaker 1: suspicious on them. LRPD releasing in a recorded statement today
23:23
Speaker 1: to send it to their detective's division. The FBI is
23:26
Speaker 1: involved tonight, and I'm told that it's the behavioral analysis
23:30
Speaker 1: unit helping them to try and gain some kind of
23:32
Speaker 1: psychological knowledge of this possible serial killer. And speaking of
23:37
Speaker 1: psychological knowledge, I want you to take a listen to
23:40
Speaker 1: our cut nine. This is Hunter Hoagland Kark four. The
23:47
Speaker 1: lockability of downtown Little Rock is what most neighbors love.
23:50
Speaker 1: But after Little Rock police say this man randomly stabbed
23:54
Speaker 1: four people walking alone, it makes you rethink. I mean,
23:58
Speaker 1: stabbed is a very intimate act. If to get close
24:00
Speaker 1: up to her soon, Rachel Miller and her husband walking
24:03
Speaker 1: to your South Gain Street most days, a street where
24:06
Speaker 1: police say one of four victims was found with multiple
24:09
Speaker 1: stab wounds dead. That is kind of creepy to know
24:12
Speaker 1: that somebody will just come up and friendomly stab you.
24:16
Speaker 1: It is horrifying. I know that we are a tight
24:19
Speaker 1: knit community, so my first thought was, let me make
24:22
Speaker 1: sure that everybody is aware. And Chancy, that was actually
24:26
Speaker 1: me speaking right there your voice, and it was me,
24:31
Speaker 1: and that is true. We are trying to make sure
24:34
Speaker 1: that everybody downtown and in the midtown area are aware.
24:38
Speaker 1: We are posting on our neighborhood Facebook groups. We are
24:42
Speaker 1: having this discussion during our neighborhood meetings. The Little Rock
24:45
Speaker 1: Police Department. We can see the police officers in the parks,
24:49
Speaker 1: in the neighborhoods. We are making sure our elderly are
24:53
Speaker 1: being checked on. We are telling people when they walk
24:56
Speaker 1: their dogs, walking pairs, walk in a group, when you're
24:59
Speaker 1: walking and with your kids. If you see any suspicious activity,
25:04
Speaker 1: reported immediately to the Little Rock Police Department. Guys, you're
25:08
Speaker 1: hearing the voice of Brenda Installing's veteran trial lawyer. They're
25:11
Speaker 1: in the public defender's office. To doctor Sherry Schwartz, forensic
25:15
Speaker 1: psychologists at panther Mitigation dot com. She's the author of
25:19
Speaker 1: several books, including Criminal Behavior Doctor Sherry Schwartz. The I'd
25:25
Speaker 1: called them sweetheart murders, now that there's any love loss
25:28
Speaker 1: between the victim and the defense and the perp. But
25:31
Speaker 1: you are literally getting physical with your victim. It's not
25:37
Speaker 1: like you're shooting at twenty paces or a sniper far
25:41
Speaker 1: in the distance, or you're running somebody over with a car.
25:45
Speaker 1: You are body to body grappling with them, stabbing them
25:50
Speaker 1: as the lifeblood runs out of them. What do you
25:53
Speaker 1: make of the fact that this killer doesn't use a gun,
25:56
Speaker 1: he doesn't run over them, He wants to stab them.
26:01
Speaker 1: He doesn't even know these people. This is very sadistic.
26:05
Speaker 1: This is somebody who appears to derive pleasure from inflicting
26:09
Speaker 1: that pain and suffering, and maybe even gets a sexual
26:14
Speaker 1: charge out of inflicting that kind of humiliation that sneaking
26:18
Speaker 1: up on the person and they never see it coming.
26:21
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I want to just
26:23
Speaker 1: touch on quickly, Nancy, is about the use of the
26:26
Speaker 1: term random. I understand what the police are saying and
26:29
Speaker 1: the reporters are saying about it's random victims because there's
26:32
Speaker 1: not a connection necessarily between the victims, and it doesn't appear,
26:36
Speaker 1: at least from the surviving victim, that this stabbing person
26:40
Speaker 1: was known to her right. However, this is not a
26:44
Speaker 1: random act. This is a predator. This is a hunter
26:46
Speaker 1: who appears to enjoy killing someone in the most sadistic way.
26:51
Speaker 1: They want them to suffer, they want to continue to
26:54
Speaker 1: inflict the pain. They're clearly not afraid of the blood
26:58
Speaker 1: or you know that sort of thing. So this does
27:02
Speaker 1: not feel random in the way that this person's just
27:05
Speaker 1: walking down the street with a knife. It's happening between
27:07
Speaker 1: the same time of day. So this is somebody who's
27:11
Speaker 1: casing an area potentially and lying in wait for somebody
27:16
Speaker 1: to pass by, lying in wait for someone to pass by?
27:21
Speaker 1: What more do we know? Take listen to our friend
27:24
Speaker 1: Paris Kane at ABC seven Are Cut twelve. The recent
27:28
Speaker 1: park shootings come in a time when LRPD is searching
27:30
Speaker 1: for a suspect potentially connected to three fatal stabbings in
27:34
Speaker 1: Little Rock. Our breakfast Mayor Scott says, connecting the stabbings
27:40
Speaker 1: within an eight month period reinforces the quality of the
27:43
Speaker 1: detectives we have on the case. We believe they will
27:46
Speaker 1: catch this person. And again we also pray for those
27:49
Speaker 1: families we're going to find you are You're going to
27:51
Speaker 1: be prosecuted to the letter of the law, because the
27:54
Speaker 1: people of this city deserve that they don't deserve to
27:57
Speaker 1: be held hostage. Please say, tips on these stabbing suspect
28:00
Speaker 1: are pouring in, and there is a twenty thousand dollars
28:03
Speaker 1: reward for any information that leads to an arrest. I'm glad,
28:06
Speaker 1: she said that a twenty thousand dollar reward. Crime Stories
28:22
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace for those of you just joining us.
28:26
Speaker 1: Police now believe a serial killer is walking the streets
28:30
Speaker 1: of Little Rock in downtown Little Rock stabbing, as they say,
28:35
Speaker 1: at random, although our expert, doctor Sherry Swartz says the
28:39
Speaker 1: attacks are not random at all. While the killer may
28:42
Speaker 1: not know his victim, that he comes at a certain
28:45
Speaker 1: time within the space of two hours in the early
28:48
Speaker 1: morning hours, one specific area of Little Rock always uses
28:53
Speaker 1: the same m O, which Harlie bespeaks of random, while
28:56
Speaker 1: the victims may in fact be random in that he
29:00
Speaker 1: doesn't know his victims. Back to you, Leavi Page Crime
29:04
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter, what can you tell me
29:06
Speaker 1: about the twenty thousand dollars reward? Who is offering that?
29:10
Speaker 1: The Little Rock Police Department said there's a twenty thousand
29:12
Speaker 1: dollars one. I don't know exactly who is offering up
29:15
Speaker 1: the tipline Nancy for anyone that has any tips, they
29:18
Speaker 1: can call five zero one three seven one four six
29:23
Speaker 1: three six and give any tips to the Little Rock
29:28
Speaker 1: police and they will follow up on that. To Brenda Installings,
29:32
Speaker 1: veteran lawyer there in the Public Defender's office in Little Right,
29:36
Speaker 1: this is her town, Brenda, I notice that police have
29:40
Speaker 1: only released a number of stab winds on one person,
29:44
Speaker 1: that being Deborah Walker, who survived. Why are they not
29:48
Speaker 1: revealing the number of stab wins on the other victims, Nancy,
29:51
Speaker 1: I'll say this much. If there is any information that
29:56
Speaker 1: is getting out and the alleged perpetrator is paying attention,
30:00
Speaker 1: he might change his m O. And so the Little
30:03
Speaker 1: Right Police Department is being very careful for my understanding
30:06
Speaker 1: and making sure that enough information is getting out that
30:09
Speaker 1: our community can be faith and our community can rally
30:13
Speaker 1: together and report any suspicious activities, but also not given
30:19
Speaker 1: enough information that the perpetrator will change his MO, because
30:23
Speaker 1: that's the possibility. You know what, Brenda, You're absolutely correct.
30:27
Speaker 1: You know. I'm curious about this video that has been taken.
30:33
Speaker 1: You can see that at crime online dot com and
30:36
Speaker 1: it's been released by Little Rock Police shows a man
30:39
Speaker 1: suspected in four separate stabbings. I'm looking at him right now.
30:43
Speaker 1: It is a tall black male. He looks to be
30:46
Speaker 1: wearing in this picture jeans in a long sleeve T
30:50
Speaker 1: shirt or sweatshirt. I can't tell if he's wearing gloves
30:55
Speaker 1: or not. And he looks to be wearing white tennis
30:57
Speaker 1: shoes and a hat, maybe a base ball cap because
31:00
Speaker 1: I'm looking at him from behind, but I don't see
31:03
Speaker 1: in his hands a knife. So where does he put
31:06
Speaker 1: the knife? Does he put it in his pocket? Where
31:08
Speaker 1: does he put that knife? Tell me about the release
31:11
Speaker 1: of this video? Leave my page. So the Little Rock
31:14
Speaker 1: Police Department released a video and it depicts what they
31:17
Speaker 1: believe could be the suspect in these attacks and murders.
31:21
Speaker 1: The video is dark because this is late at night,
31:25
Speaker 1: early in the morning, and you can see a tall man,
31:30
Speaker 1: slim built man walking on a sidewalk area in the
31:34
Speaker 1: first video that was released, and he's pacing back and forth,
31:39
Speaker 1: and there's a white car, a four door car, located
31:43
Speaker 1: across the street from him. And then in the second clip,
31:46
Speaker 1: it shows what looks to be like the same man
31:50
Speaker 1: crossing a street, and it looks like he's wearing, like
31:54
Speaker 1: you said, a sweatshirt, maybe even a hoodie, white pants,
31:58
Speaker 1: possibly jeans. They're loose, relaxed fit. He's not wearing tite
32:02
Speaker 1: form fitting clothing, and he appears to possibly be wearing gloves,
32:08
Speaker 1: but it's hard to see exactly because it is so
32:10
Speaker 1: dark outside. Well, one thing that's really interesting to me
32:13
Speaker 1: about this is that in the one picture I've looked at,
32:17
Speaker 1: several of these stills from the video and one patreet
32:21
Speaker 1: his back is turned to the camera, and the other
32:23
Speaker 1: one he's wearing similar clothes, but he's right at a
32:26
Speaker 1: stop sign, and it looks to be illuminated, such as
32:29
Speaker 1: under a street light or some type of lighting. There
32:33
Speaker 1: are you looking at the photo of him beside the
32:35
Speaker 1: stop sign. Yes, you're right, that's a little bit clearer
32:39
Speaker 1: than the first image. And you're right, it does look
32:42
Speaker 1: like he's walking in front of a streetlight. Guys, Dancy,
32:46
Speaker 1: we asking people to check their external home cameras and
32:51
Speaker 1: see if they have any footage and if they see
32:53
Speaker 1: anything that stands out, to contact the Little Police department. Guys,
32:58
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut number five. This is
33:00
Speaker 1: Ashley Godwin at TV eleven. It's terrible kind of make
33:06
Speaker 1: escape the move, you know, glad of you, I'll have.
33:09
Speaker 1: People are just still hearing about the man targeting the
33:12
Speaker 1: Little Rock community. The first stabbing happened on August twenty fourth,
33:16
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, at South Game Street, where sixty four year
33:20
Speaker 1: old Larry mc christian died from his injuries. The second
33:23
Speaker 1: attack was only one month later at West twelfth Street,
33:26
Speaker 1: taking the life of sixty two year old Jeff Welch
33:30
Speaker 1: Police responded to the third attack on April eleventh of
33:33
Speaker 1: this year at nineteenth and Marshall Streets. The forty three
33:36
Speaker 1: year old woman was stabbed over fifteen times, but survived
33:40
Speaker 1: those injuries, and just one day later police investigated a
33:43
Speaker 1: homicide on Right Avenue where they found the body of
33:46
Speaker 1: forty year old Marlin Franklin. You know very curious, Jesscott Morgan,
33:51
Speaker 1: you're the professor of forensics jacksonvill State University. How does
33:54
Speaker 1: the FBI go about enhancing this video? And do we
33:57
Speaker 1: know where the video came from? You know, that's interesting, Nancy,
34:01
Speaker 1: because dependent upon the video is only going to be
34:04
Speaker 1: as good as the equipment that is being utilized to record. So,
34:10
Speaker 1: you know, you're already starting with a deficit here. If
34:13
Speaker 1: this is the best that they can do relative to enhancement,
34:17
Speaker 1: then they're going to be in trouble. That's why what
34:20
Speaker 1: Misstallis was saying is so very important that if you
34:23
Speaker 1: can access people's ring cams and these sorts of cameras
34:26
Speaker 1: that people now, you know, it's amazing how many of
34:29
Speaker 1: these people have these installed in their homes. Now you
34:32
Speaker 1: capture not just another view, you capture multiple angles of
34:37
Speaker 1: this individual. And so if you can do that, the
34:40
Speaker 1: FBI and their Media Enhancement section, which is actually part
34:44
Speaker 1: a subset of the Behavioral Sciences section there, it's like
34:47
Speaker 1: an adjunct or auxiliary that they have. They spend a
34:51
Speaker 1: lot of time kind of noodling with the stuff electronically
34:54
Speaker 1: and tightening up these images as much as they can
34:57
Speaker 1: without kind of distorting them. And it's a very fine
35:00
Speaker 1: line they have to work with. And if they can
35:03
Speaker 1: get multiple views, you can begin to develop things like
35:06
Speaker 1: gate wow, where we heard that before, Nancy A relative
35:10
Speaker 1: to people walking there, you go, I sure do. And
35:17
Speaker 1: also height, and that's a big thing. You know, they're
35:19
Speaker 1: talking how this guy looks like he's tall. You can't
35:22
Speaker 1: really confirm that because if you only have one view,
35:25
Speaker 1: it gives you kind of a stilted, a stilted perspective
35:28
Speaker 1: on the individual, particularly if it's from above. So you know,
35:32
Speaker 1: you really don't know what you're looking at. That's why
35:34
Speaker 1: you need multiple views. If this is all they have,
35:37
Speaker 1: I'd say that they're in trouble. You know. I noticed
35:41
Speaker 1: that one of the videos dot A Sherry Schwartz, for instance,
35:43
Speaker 1: psychologists showed the killer pacing back and forth. What does
35:50
Speaker 1: that tell you? Well, if they're pacing back and forth
35:54
Speaker 1: ahead of time, they're you know, getting it seems to
35:56
Speaker 1: me to suggest a state of excitement about getting ready
36:01
Speaker 1: to carry out this brutal, vicious attack. If it's after
36:07
Speaker 1: the fact, it's possibly shaking off that energy, that heightened
36:12
Speaker 1: sense of yes, I just you know, accomplished another killing.
36:17
Speaker 1: So it does suggest this sort of in the way
36:21
Speaker 1: of being afraid. Clearly, this is not somebody who who
36:24
Speaker 1: fears being captured because they're out in public doing these things,
36:29
Speaker 1: but just working off sort of that physical energy that
36:33
Speaker 1: comes with that heightened mental state. I recall a defendant
36:39
Speaker 1: convicted for murder went to jail and he was later
36:46
Speaker 1: connected to some armed robberies. He came back to my
36:50
Speaker 1: same courtroom since I had handled the first case, and
36:55
Speaker 1: I noticed he had been now been in jail for
36:58
Speaker 1: a year. He paced back and forth in the courtroom
37:04
Speaker 1: waiting for the next as unication, like a tiger in
37:08
Speaker 1: a cage. And I'm wondering why this guy didn't take
37:13
Speaker 1: off running, Why he paced back and forth? Was he
37:17
Speaker 1: waiting on a ride? Why? But the gate that you
37:23
Speaker 1: heard Joe Scott Morgan referring to could be critical in
37:27
Speaker 1: this case for anyone listening to our voices or tuning
37:31
Speaker 1: in tipline five zero one three seven one four six
37:36
Speaker 1: three six. Please help before we lose another life. Nancy
37:43
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Story, signing off goodbye friend