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Killer Thriller: Alex Murdaugh Gets a New Trial and Mandy Matney Is Furious · Legally Brunette

0:06
Speaker 1: Amy Roboc and TJ.
0:07
Speaker 2: Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host Elisa Donovan.
0:15
Speaker 3: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller.
0:19
Speaker 3: For years, the Alec Murdoch case has felt less like
0:22
Speaker 3: one crime story and more like a Southern Gothic nightmare.
0:27
Speaker 1: A powerful legal dynasty, financial.
0:29
Speaker 3: Fraud, addiction, mysterious deaths, a fatal boat crash, a staged
0:35
Speaker 3: roadside shooting, and ultimately, the shocking murders of Maggie and
0:40
Speaker 3: Paul Murdoch at the family's hunting estate in South Carolina.
0:44
Speaker 3: In twenty twenty three, Alec Murdoch was convicted of murdering
0:48
Speaker 3: his wife and son and sentenced to life in prison.
0:51
Speaker 3: But now, in a stunning twist, the South Carolina Supreme
0:56
Speaker 3: Court has overturned those murder convictions, ruling that former Colton
1:01
Speaker 3: County Clerk of Court, Becky Hill, improperly influenced the jury
1:06
Speaker 3: and denied Murdock a fair trial. At the same time,
1:11
Speaker 3: journalist and podcaster Mandy Mattney has been pulled into a
1:15
Speaker 3: separate contempt fight connected to a deposition dispute. Today, Mandy
1:20
Speaker 3: returns to Killer Thriller to help us break down the
1:23
Speaker 3: latest bombshell developments and one of the most complicated and bizarre.
1:28
Speaker 1: True crime sagas in America. Oh, Mandy, welcome back to
1:32
Speaker 1: Killer Thriller.
1:33
Speaker 2: Thank you.
1:35
Speaker 3: I let me just say first of all, when you
1:39
Speaker 3: know you are our very first guests on this podcast,
1:42
Speaker 3: you and Liz, and when I said we are going
1:45
Speaker 3: to have you back, and we all said yay, I
1:48
Speaker 3: in no way, shape or form thought this would be
1:52
Speaker 3: the circumstances under which you would be back here.
1:55
Speaker 1: So, I mean, we have a lot to cover here.
1:58
Speaker 3: But first, when nah Alec Murdoch's murder conviction was overturned,
2:03
Speaker 3: what was your immediate reaction?
2:06
Speaker 2: Well, I knew about it a few weeks ago. We
2:09
Speaker 2: had so I did, and we reported it on our
2:12
Speaker 2: podcast Through Sunlight a few weeks ago. Our sources were
2:15
Speaker 2: always good and they still are. Just have to say that.
2:19
Speaker 2: But so I at least had like a couple of
2:23
Speaker 2: weeks to kind of come to terms with it and
2:26
Speaker 2: like feel uh, you know, let the emotions go through
2:32
Speaker 2: the motions of the whole thing. And so when it happened,
2:38
Speaker 2: I was not shocked. Was I angry though, yes, And
2:43
Speaker 2: was like reality hitting me that this story that I
2:47
Speaker 2: feel like I've been trapped in or like I I'm
2:51
Speaker 2: sure on the last podcast we discussed like I was
2:55
Speaker 2: really ready to break free. I thought the whou was
2:57
Speaker 2: like a book, and a nice bookend of that part
3:00
Speaker 2: of my story and that part of my life. And
3:04
Speaker 2: so it's just been coming to terms with like we're
3:07
Speaker 2: opening up all those chapters again and nothing is ever over.
3:14
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine.
3:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't imagine how you feel because I feel
3:19
Speaker 3: that way from it, outside of it, Like it just keeps.
3:22
Speaker 1: This is like yet another turn with this whole saga.
3:29
Speaker 3: And I mean, did you really did you initially think
3:31
Speaker 3: when he was convicted that this was a possibility that
3:34
Speaker 3: they would control.
3:36
Speaker 2: Honestly, I really didn't, and I have I haven't been
3:39
Speaker 2: asked that question. And I really thought that everything was
3:44
Speaker 2: so solid in the trial. I mean, the trial was
3:46
Speaker 2: six weeks long, it was very extensive. Creighton Waters did
3:50
Speaker 2: a fantastic job, and I thought Judge Newman did a
3:53
Speaker 2: fantastic job. This doesn't happen often, but at that point
3:57
Speaker 2: I was proud of the South Carolina justice system and
4:00
Speaker 2: I was really thought everything was solid. I was I
4:08
Speaker 2: expected Alex's attorneys Dick and Jim to find something wrong
4:13
Speaker 2: with it, right. They They are very expensive, well resourced
4:20
Speaker 2: attorneys that can turn over every single leaf in a trial,
4:24
Speaker 2: and they have that money in time to do so.
4:27
Speaker 2: I saw this coming from when the Supreme Court had
4:32
Speaker 2: their hearing in February, and I could tell the justices
4:37
Speaker 2: were all on his side. And that is when I
4:42
Speaker 2: really like knew that it was a possibility. Knew that
4:45
Speaker 2: it was a big possibility. And there was just moments
4:49
Speaker 2: where they were almost helping him in that hearing, and
4:51
Speaker 2: it was just kind of weird. There was a moment
4:53
Speaker 2: where one of the Supreme Court justices called him Elick
4:56
Speaker 2: like by his first name instead of the defendant or
4:59
Speaker 2: mister murder Like. I was worrying to him as his
5:02
Speaker 2: buddy elc and I was just like this word, Oh
5:05
Speaker 2: my god, we're screwed.
5:08
Speaker 3: So this whole thing they they didn't just so this
5:11
Speaker 3: is regarding Becky Hill. The first of all, how unusual
5:18
Speaker 3: is this for a court clerk to have any influence
5:21
Speaker 3: over a jury at all? And they use very strong
5:23
Speaker 3: language and Supreme Court saying things like shocking jury interference
5:28
Speaker 3: and she quote placed her fingers on the scale of Justice.
5:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, so what are they talking about, Oh, the Becky
5:38
Speaker 2: Hills story. So yes, all of this is extremely unusual
5:42
Speaker 2: and it all goes back to Becky's book coming out
5:46
Speaker 2: in I believe July of twenty twenty three, So a
5:49
Speaker 2: couple months after the murder, after Alex Murdoch was convicted,
5:54
Speaker 2: the clerk of court came out with a tell all
5:56
Speaker 2: book about the trial, like that it does not happen,
6:00
Speaker 2: is not And that's like where all problems kind of
6:05
Speaker 2: start to bubble up. And I really would like to
6:10
Speaker 2: know at this point who encouraged her to write this book,
6:13
Speaker 2: because this book obviously made her an easy target that like,
6:18
Speaker 2: this lady does not follow the rules. There was somebody
6:20
Speaker 2: who compete unethical in this trial, and so it gave
6:26
Speaker 2: Dick and Jim permission, those are the attorneys to dig
6:30
Speaker 2: into everybody in the jury, and they went to they
6:33
Speaker 2: knocked on the doors of their houses and asked, like,
6:37
Speaker 2: did Becky influence you in any way, shape or form,
6:40
Speaker 2: And all of them except for one said no. They said,
6:45
Speaker 2: I came up with my verdict on my own because
6:49
Speaker 2: of the evidence. Becky had nothing to do with it.
6:52
Speaker 2: Like they said, yeah, she was a little weird and like, yeah,
6:55
Speaker 2: she had like decorations and things, like.
6:58
Speaker 1: She she decorated her desk.
7:00
Speaker 2: Right, and like she obviously used this case as like
7:03
Speaker 2: she thought it was like her ticket out, you know,
7:06
Speaker 2: or like her ticket to money and fame, and like
7:09
Speaker 2: she thought that she she's a very she's a small
7:14
Speaker 2: town clerk of court and had never seen anything or
7:19
Speaker 2: the publicly right, so public or the college in County
7:23
Speaker 2: has never gotten our most cases never get like a
7:26
Speaker 2: fraction of the attention that the Murdock case got, you know,
7:29
Speaker 2: So she felt important for several months there where like
7:34
Speaker 2: journalists were bub buddying up to her trying to get
7:36
Speaker 2: the scoop. Like she felt like she had power of
7:41
Speaker 2: like who has press passes and who doesn't in the case,
7:44
Speaker 2: and like she was definitely power hunger like and I
7:48
Speaker 2: saw that too, Like Liz and I joked at the
7:54
Speaker 2: during the trial, Becky was like using press passes like
7:58
Speaker 2: backstage passes. We called her backstage. We called her backstage
8:02
Speaker 2: Becky because she was like, oh my god, one like
8:05
Speaker 2: she was using it.
8:08
Speaker 1: This seems absurd. That's like a circus, is she?
8:13
Speaker 3: I Just like I'm struck that you could even I mean,
8:15
Speaker 3: I'm not surprised she could get a book deal. I
8:16
Speaker 3: feel like anybody that thinks I can sell something, but
8:19
Speaker 3: it seems illegal because she is she allowed.
8:23
Speaker 2: To do any of those things, so right, and she
8:26
Speaker 2: went to the South Carolina Ethics Commission. And this also
8:29
Speaker 2: goes back to the fact that, like we have very
8:31
Speaker 2: very weak rules when it comes to ethics in South Carolina,
8:35
Speaker 2: and Becky is a part of a system where everybody
8:38
Speaker 2: is so used to bending the rules and getting away
8:40
Speaker 2: with it, Like Becky is not the first clerk of
8:42
Speaker 2: court to be inappropriate or break the rules or been
8:45
Speaker 2: the rules by all means, like this is a whole
8:47
Speaker 2: system well constantly. I mean, Becky did it in a
8:52
Speaker 2: very very stupid and public way. But so she is
8:57
Speaker 2: accused of like like you said, the justices really came
9:02
Speaker 2: down hard on her and said she had a finger
9:04
Speaker 2: on the scales of justice in this case. But at
9:07
Speaker 2: the same time, she was criminally charged with a few things,
9:11
Speaker 2: but never jury tampering, and she was she was never
9:14
Speaker 2: convicted of jury tampering. So that's like really important to
9:19
Speaker 2: know and still to this day, like besides one juror
9:25
Speaker 2: who flip flopped back and forth, and like again, she
9:29
Speaker 2: only said that her jur her verdict was interfered with
9:33
Speaker 2: after Dick and Jim came knocking on her door and
9:35
Speaker 2: asking her to sign an affidavit and asking her, you know,
9:39
Speaker 2: like and so you have this one juror that said
9:44
Speaker 2: like a yeah, maybe Becky did say something weird, or
9:47
Speaker 2: like maybe yeah, Becky did influence me, you know, and
9:49
Speaker 2: then she went back and forth. So all of this
9:53
Speaker 2: is because of that. But there was never anything like
9:56
Speaker 2: incredibly solid, and this is important to know, there's never
9:59
Speaker 2: any thing like incredibly solid that they ever pinned down
10:04
Speaker 2: that she actually tampered with the jury or influenced the
10:08
Speaker 2: verdict at any point. And also the jury all swore,
10:13
Speaker 2: after swore to Judge Newman after they rendered their verdict,
10:17
Speaker 2: that they were that they came to that conclusion on
10:19
Speaker 2: their own, like they all and that So what I'm
10:24
Speaker 2: worried about at this point, And sorry, I don't even
10:26
Speaker 2: know what the question was.
10:28
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're answering it, you're answering it.
10:31
Speaker 2: But like, my what my concern is is what does
10:35
Speaker 2: this tell other defense attorneys who have like lots of
10:38
Speaker 2: money once they get a jury verdict that they do
10:43
Speaker 2: not agree with that they can just go knocking on
10:46
Speaker 2: jurors doors. And right, that is the problem, you know,
10:50
Speaker 2: like there's there's something really important. I've talked to lawyers
10:54
Speaker 2: about this. So with the finality of a verdict, you know, like.
10:57
Speaker 3: That's what our legal system is for, that's what they say,
11:00
Speaker 3: and if you want to change it, then you have to,
11:03
Speaker 3: you know, have a neutrial, Like I just it seems
11:06
Speaker 3: crazy to me the night.
11:07
Speaker 1: It's like co very, coercive.
11:09
Speaker 2: It does. And like, yes, Becky was dumb and like
11:16
Speaker 2: her book was stupid, like she she did she asked
11:19
Speaker 2: the South Carolina f ex Commission, like can I write
11:22
Speaker 2: this book? And they basically said, like we advise against it,
11:26
Speaker 2: but like don't do X, Y and Z. And she
11:29
Speaker 2: broke all the role, like she did everything with people,
11:32
Speaker 2: like she was just in it. You could see it
11:35
Speaker 2: so clearly. I've gone through our emails. I've gone through
11:37
Speaker 2: like I have unfortunately dug way into Becky Hill and
11:41
Speaker 2: like is she you see just this small town clerk
11:44
Speaker 2: accurt who got a little bit of power and got
11:47
Speaker 2: a little bit of fame, and like she went on
11:51
Speaker 2: the Today Show right after the verdict with the jurors
11:54
Speaker 2: and that was her first time that she had ever
11:57
Speaker 2: been on a plane.
11:58
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
12:00
Speaker 2: So like think about how small world was and.
12:03
Speaker 1: How like, yeah, how exciting that all was right, and how.
12:08
Speaker 2: It's it could be easy to get swept up and
12:11
Speaker 2: think like, this is my chance. I got to write
12:14
Speaker 2: a book and I got to do all of these things.
12:17
Speaker 2: And who knows who was pressuring her to to like
12:21
Speaker 2: appear to be super unethical, because.
12:23
Speaker 1: Well, right, that's what I was going to ask, is that.
12:25
Speaker 3: I mean, I suppose there's no way to nobody will
12:27
Speaker 3: ever admit it. But it feels like where Alex's attorney's going,
12:32
Speaker 3: you know, paying her off or something. I mean, it
12:34
Speaker 3: just seems like so possible, the whole thing.
12:39
Speaker 2: It's it's just very shocking, but not shocking because all
12:44
Speaker 2: along on the Murdoch Martyrs podcast, we've said two systems
12:48
Speaker 2: of justice, right, and like it was all shocking to
12:52
Speaker 2: us that he was convicted to begin with, just because
12:56
Speaker 2: of our system in the way that it is. And
13:00
Speaker 2: so yeah, I really did not foresee an appeal, especially
13:04
Speaker 2: this quickly. I always thought appeals took a lot. I mean,
13:08
Speaker 2: I guess we're three years out.
13:09
Speaker 1: Yeah further.
13:10
Speaker 3: So okay, So now that they have been overturned the
13:13
Speaker 3: murder convictions, what happens next procedurally.
13:16
Speaker 2: That's a great question. So Attorney General Alan Wilson has
13:21
Speaker 2: said he's going to retry the case. He does not
13:24
Speaker 2: have to recharge him because it does not charge it
13:27
Speaker 2: does not like take the charges away. But and he
13:32
Speaker 2: also has said that the death penalty is now on
13:35
Speaker 2: the table. But there's also background here at Attorney General
13:42
Speaker 2: Alan Wilson, who's the like in charge of the prosecution
13:45
Speaker 2: on the case, he is running for governor right now,
13:49
Speaker 2: so that makes a different that makes a different factor, right.
13:54
Speaker 2: He is obviously motivated to puff's chest up and say
13:58
Speaker 2: things like I'm going going to go for the death penalty,
14:02
Speaker 2: and I'm gonna we want to get this done as
14:05
Speaker 2: soon as possible, and we want to get this done
14:07
Speaker 2: this year, is what he has said. But will day,
14:12
Speaker 2: I don't know. So procedurally, I am not sure what
14:17
Speaker 2: happens next, to be honest with you, but I'll tell
14:20
Speaker 2: you this. Right before we got on the phone, right
14:23
Speaker 2: before we started talking, Alex's attorneys filed a lawsuit against
14:30
Speaker 2: Becky Hill on behalf of Alex Murdoch. So now we
14:34
Speaker 2: have a federal lawsuit and it just keeps coming.
14:39
Speaker 1: Oh my god, do you think so.
14:45
Speaker 3: Right, I'm going to say that the prosecutors they wanted
14:47
Speaker 3: as aggressively this time as the last problem, I would
14:50
Speaker 3: think more so.
14:52
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I mean I do think that the one
14:56
Speaker 2: thing that's good about Alan Wilson running for governor is
14:59
Speaker 2: that he is motivated to please the people, and I
15:03
Speaker 2: think he will be motivated to get this done quickly
15:06
Speaker 2: and correctly.
15:07
Speaker 3: So do you think that people are emotionally separating two
15:13
Speaker 3: ideas right now that like Alec probably did it versus
15:17
Speaker 3: he may not have received a fair trial. Like I'm
15:19
Speaker 3: always curious about those things, like this is where that
15:24
Speaker 3: justice part is? So yeah, murky to me.
15:28
Speaker 2: I was talking to a podcast from Ireland the other
15:33
Speaker 2: day about this too, because I wrestled with that question
15:36
Speaker 2: as well, Like what is a fair trial? It's the
15:39
Speaker 2: right person is behind bars, and most of us believe
15:42
Speaker 2: that the right person is behind bars and isn't that
15:46
Speaker 2: what our justice system aims for the Other thing that
15:51
Speaker 2: I can't really that I wrestle with and that I
15:55
Speaker 2: can't really fully conclude, is like I don't think that this.
15:59
Speaker 2: People love to say, like two things can exist at once.
16:02
Speaker 2: He can be guilty, but he deserves a fair trial.
16:05
Speaker 2: But it's not like this betters everybody in the system.
16:09
Speaker 2: It's not right. It's not like every black person that
16:14
Speaker 2: is that would have the exact same argument would get
16:18
Speaker 2: the same outcome. It is not like a poor white
16:21
Speaker 2: person would get the same outcome. It's Alex Murdock is
16:25
Speaker 2: somebody with a lot of power and a lot of sway,
16:27
Speaker 2: and that is a huge part of this outcome. So, like, yes,
16:32
Speaker 2: was Becky inappropriate? Yes, does that necessarily mean that he
16:38
Speaker 2: did not get a fair trial? I just can't really,
16:41
Speaker 2: I can't come to that conclusion because I believe in
16:45
Speaker 2: my art and soul that he did it, and I
16:47
Speaker 2: believe that we have seen the evidence. And I'm also
16:51
Speaker 2: a South Carolina tax fair I don't want to pay
16:53
Speaker 2: for another trial.
16:55
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean the amount of time and energy and
17:00
Speaker 3: emotional strife and try all of that, But the actual
17:03
Speaker 3: financial burden that this puts on this day, it's outrageous.
17:09
Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, And then like you said, I do think,
17:14
Speaker 2: I do think for the most part of majority people
17:16
Speaker 2: are saying, Okay, the Supreme Court said what they said,
17:20
Speaker 2: and maybe he does deserve a new trial, or he
17:22
Speaker 2: does deserve a new trial, but I still believe that
17:24
Speaker 2: he's guilty. I'm seeing a lot of that, But I
17:27
Speaker 2: am also seeing a lot arise in the comments of like,
17:32
Speaker 2: but did he do it? Which is which is hard.
17:35
Speaker 2: I think we haven't seen any more evidence, Like there
17:41
Speaker 2: has not been a shred of evidence since he was
17:44
Speaker 2: convicted showing us that he was innocent, or showing us
17:48
Speaker 2: that another person did it, or pointing us to any
17:51
Speaker 2: other direction. There's not There has been nothing new in
17:54
Speaker 2: all of us, and I feel like that's another like
17:56
Speaker 2: solid point to get across. This does not mean that
17:59
Speaker 2: he presented any new evidence, because he definitely didn't.
18:03
Speaker 3: I mean, the the kennel video, the confession lie, thing
18:07
Speaker 3: like that. That's such a defining piece of the first trial.
18:11
Speaker 3: And they can still, well they use that again. They
18:13
Speaker 3: can use all of the same things, right they Nothing
18:18
Speaker 3: is sort of exempt.
18:19
Speaker 1: It's just they just have to have a new trial.
18:22
Speaker 2: So unfortunately, the Supreme Court in their ruling said A,
18:27
Speaker 2: we're giving you a new trial because of Becky, but
18:30
Speaker 2: b we believed that too much of the financial crimes
18:35
Speaker 2: was allowed in what.
18:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't that part of the motive. That's part of
18:41
Speaker 1: goes to motive.
18:42
Speaker 2: It goes directly to motive. And what I was talking
18:46
Speaker 2: to my co host of Cove of Justice about a
18:49
Speaker 2: long time South Carolina attorney, great attorney Eric Bland, who
18:54
Speaker 2: he and I uncover the financial crimes together. He was like, this,
18:58
Speaker 2: put this what the Supreme Court laid out, and their
19:01
Speaker 2: ruling puts the next judge in a really really tough
19:04
Speaker 2: position to allow any financial crimes in because then it's
19:09
Speaker 2: immediately appealable.
19:11
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah.
19:13
Speaker 2: And it's in my god of it because like it's
19:17
Speaker 2: like you said, anyone who was paying attention understands how
19:21
Speaker 2: it's not a far leap from the financial crimes to
19:24
Speaker 2: the motive. You see the gathering storm, You see all
19:27
Speaker 2: the pressure that he was facing in his life, and
19:30
Speaker 2: that like his law firm was coming down on him
19:32
Speaker 2: that day and he was being caught.
19:36
Speaker 1: How can that not be allowed?
19:38
Speaker 2: Why? And what? And it was weird the way that
19:41
Speaker 2: they put it. They didn't they didn't necessarily say like,
19:46
Speaker 2: they didn't say it's not allowed, but they said you
19:49
Speaker 2: went too far and too hard on the financial crimes,
19:52
Speaker 2: and an example of that, which I thought was really
19:56
Speaker 2: weird was Tony Sadderfield's testimony, and he was it was
20:00
Speaker 2: the only financial victim who testified.
20:04
Speaker 1: He's the son correct of Gloria, and Gloria Sadden was.
20:07
Speaker 3: Supposed to receive the money from the uh ALEC when
20:15
Speaker 3: he did the reverse is another like.
20:17
Speaker 2: It's okay, it's okay to explain that quickly.
20:20
Speaker 1: I know it is, but I can't explain it.
20:22
Speaker 2: You're doing a great job and it's really difficult, and like,
20:25
Speaker 2: I've had to review so many things in the last
20:27
Speaker 2: couple of weeks, so I'm like, what did happen there?
20:29
Speaker 3: No?
20:31
Speaker 1: So uh.
20:33
Speaker 2: Tony Saderfield is the son of Gloria Sadderfield and Gloria
20:37
Speaker 2: Sadderfield was the housekeeper and nanny, and a lot of
20:41
Speaker 2: people close to the Murdochs really credit Gloria for raising
20:46
Speaker 2: the children, like she was a huge part of both
20:48
Speaker 2: Bustering and Paul's lives. She was a part of the
20:52
Speaker 2: Murdochs family, and Tony also considered Alex Murdoch like a
20:57
Speaker 2: father figure, like somebody who he really looked up to.
21:00
Speaker 2: So Gloria unfortunately died after allegedly falling on the Murdoch's property,
21:07
Speaker 2: and that's a whole nother thing that has never been
21:09
Speaker 2: completely there's no closed loops on that. But what we
21:14
Speaker 2: do know is that Alex took that as an opportunity
21:18
Speaker 2: to steal from her family, and he went to Gloria's
21:23
Speaker 2: sons at the funeral and said, hey, look we can
21:29
Speaker 2: get you money. Here's my buddy, Corey Fleming. He's going
21:32
Speaker 2: to be your lawyer, and you guys are going to
21:34
Speaker 2: assume me.
21:35
Speaker 1: Because I'm such a stand up guy.
21:37
Speaker 2: Because I'm such a stand up guy, and they were,
21:40
Speaker 2: you know, confused, but also Alex, it's Alex Murdoch saying
21:43
Speaker 2: that like his father, his father, grandfather, and great grandfather
21:49
Speaker 2: were all prosecutors of that area. So the like the
21:53
Speaker 2: I don't question Tony of like he was probably like, Okay,
21:57
Speaker 2: that's weird, but that's fine. Sure, he did not get
22:01
Speaker 2: any of that money. They settled for over four million
22:05
Speaker 2: dollars against Alex Murdoch's insurance company, and Alex took the money. Also,
22:13
Speaker 2: Tony was questioned because I had written an article that
22:17
Speaker 2: Tony had seen that had been his only awareness of
22:21
Speaker 2: the settlement existing. He had no idea. Alex kept telling him, hey, buddy, like,
22:27
Speaker 2: if we're not getting there, like nothing's happening, don't worry
22:30
Speaker 2: about it. I'll I'll tell you about it when it's settled.
22:33
Speaker 2: And then he reads in the newspaper for my article,
22:37
Speaker 2: and so he starts asking Alex questions in the spring
22:41
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty one, like, hey, like, I read that
22:45
Speaker 2: there's this this five hundred thousand dollars settlement, which is
22:48
Speaker 2: just a part of it. And what really gets me
22:52
Speaker 2: is that he could have just given them like ten
22:55
Speaker 2: thousand dollars or like give him something, just a little
22:59
Speaker 2: part of it, and they would have been over the moon.
23:01
Speaker 2: Like these were boys working really, really hard. Gloria's Sun
23:05
Speaker 2: got kicked out of his home during this time because
23:08
Speaker 2: he couldn't afford to live there, Like they were struggling
23:11
Speaker 2: so any ounce of money. But he was so incredibly
23:15
Speaker 2: greedy and so incredibly short sighted that he didn't give
23:20
Speaker 2: them a single dime. And so for the Supreme Court.
23:26
Speaker 3: It's so despicable, it's almost it's it's unfathomable.
23:31
Speaker 2: So for the Supreme Court right to say, like that
23:35
Speaker 2: was way too much, you wed like hearing from that
23:38
Speaker 2: guy that was over the top, and it just feels
23:43
Speaker 2: like a slap in the face to the victims. It
23:45
Speaker 2: feels like they don't care about the what it speaks
23:51
Speaker 2: to the motive and what it like. Tony Sanderfield is
23:53
Speaker 2: also like an example of like how despicable Alex Murdoch
23:57
Speaker 2: can be. He looked this, He looked this young man
24:00
Speaker 2: in the eyes who had just lost his mother and said,
24:02
Speaker 2: I got you, don't worry, and then he stole from him.
24:20
Speaker 3: How difficult is it do you think to see an
24:23
Speaker 3: impartial jury now that this case has become so globally
24:28
Speaker 3: famous and people have such big feelings about it.
24:32
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's really it's literally. First of all,
24:38
Speaker 2: it's impossible to seat a jury that is not aware
24:41
Speaker 2: of this case, at least a jury. I'm sorry, but like,
24:44
Speaker 2: if you have a sane mind in the state of
24:46
Speaker 2: South Carolina you've heard of from are not case and
24:49
Speaker 2: like and unless you're like real weird living and like
24:53
Speaker 2: do we want those people as you're like living under
24:56
Speaker 2: our literal rock. No, So like people that have already
25:02
Speaker 2: built their opinions and had are aware of the case.
25:06
Speaker 2: That's I don't think we can go anywhere in the
25:08
Speaker 2: United States without that, maybe even like a good portion
25:12
Speaker 2: of the world, that would be difficult. But can we
25:15
Speaker 2: get an impartial jury, a jury that's able to look
25:19
Speaker 2: at the facts and decide again if there's enough evidence
25:25
Speaker 2: to convict him of double homicide, which is what this
25:28
Speaker 2: case comes down to. I think that that's possible. I mean,
25:32
Speaker 2: but I also feel like nowadays that's something that we
25:35
Speaker 2: have to discuss with our jury system of like people
25:39
Speaker 2: have heard, the true crime has evolved so much. People
25:43
Speaker 2: are so much more involved in cases and know so
25:45
Speaker 2: much more. Do we really want jurors who have never
25:49
Speaker 2: heard of cases and do that?
25:53
Speaker 3: Don't We all have, you know, minds that are that
25:57
Speaker 3: can process a lot of information and be influenced by
26:01
Speaker 3: like that sort of the you can't you have to
26:04
Speaker 3: come to the table with some sort of you know,
26:07
Speaker 3: opinions and moral work for things. And it doesn't mean
26:11
Speaker 3: you can't be you should be influenced by what happens.
26:15
Speaker 3: It's a confusing I don't know, it feels very unm
26:20
Speaker 3: you know, imperfect to say the least.
26:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, and that, But I do think, like you said,
26:28
Speaker 2: and we need to think of like jurors do have
26:31
Speaker 2: the ability to think of their opinions separate from them,
26:36
Speaker 2: separate their opinions from what they're seeing in court and
26:39
Speaker 2: the evidence, and decide from that. And I also do
26:42
Speaker 2: think that the jurors didn't do that in this case.
26:46
Speaker 2: I think that there was. I think that it's the
26:49
Speaker 2: jury tampering that the Supreme Court is making out is
26:54
Speaker 2: acting like happened existed. I think one of the jurors
26:57
Speaker 2: would have said something before Dick and Jim came knocking
26:59
Speaker 2: on their doors asking, you know, like, I think something
27:03
Speaker 2: would have came out before the book. I think that
27:06
Speaker 2: something would have come up if she was truly being
27:10
Speaker 2: this like out of control.
27:14
Speaker 3: We have to convict him, right, I Mean, it also
27:17
Speaker 3: just seems so illogical that she could be in the
27:20
Speaker 3: courtroom like.
27:21
Speaker 1: PST, don't listen to the evidence. I mean, it's just
27:25
Speaker 1: like ludicrous.
27:27
Speaker 2: Right, and that they wouldn't. And I also I feel
27:31
Speaker 2: bad for those chruers, like they they gave up six
27:35
Speaker 2: weeks of their lives and came to a decision and
27:38
Speaker 2: it's just kind of insulting for them and for I
27:41
Speaker 2: feel like Judge Newman did a really great job and
27:44
Speaker 2: it's unfortunate that this is reversed and he he's retired now,
27:50
Speaker 2: so he's not going to come back, and so that's
27:52
Speaker 2: another thing that's going to happen, and a new judge
27:55
Speaker 2: and that's going to make a I think that's I
27:57
Speaker 2: think this time is going to be very, very different.
28:00
Speaker 1: Yeah.
28:01
Speaker 3: So one of the things that you get into in
28:03
Speaker 3: your podcast is the fear that this could retraumatize everyone
28:08
Speaker 3: who's connected to the case all over again. And you've
28:12
Speaker 3: spent obviously years talking to people that are connected to
28:15
Speaker 3: this story.
28:16
Speaker 1: So do you feel that people.
28:18
Speaker 3: In South Carolina are emotionally exhausted by this whole case?
28:23
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do. I think that I think that they
28:28
Speaker 2: take comfort in the fact that he's not getting out
28:30
Speaker 2: of prison for the next few decades, because he should
28:35
Speaker 2: die in prison just for the financial crimes alone, right, Yeah,
28:38
Speaker 2: which like ninety.
28:39
Speaker 3: Make that clear that he isn't he won't be released
28:42
Speaker 3: from prison because of this.
28:43
Speaker 2: He's still and that's a huge part to discuss with
28:46
Speaker 2: the process. He is, like he has twenty seven years
28:51
Speaker 2: in state prison for his financial crimes, in forty years
28:55
Speaker 2: in federal prison for his federal financial crimes. Like that's
29:00
Speaker 2: a pretty solid he can't be behind bars forever. So
29:05
Speaker 2: I think they do take comfort in that. I do,
29:08
Speaker 2: but I also think, yeah, they're exhausted by it. And yeah,
29:11
Speaker 2: most people think that he's guilty, so they're like, why
29:15
Speaker 2: are we doing why are we doing this?
29:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's what I was just going to ask.
29:19
Speaker 1: Are we over this?
29:21
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, aren't we over this? And again if this
29:25
Speaker 2: was if this was a situation, I would feel a
29:29
Speaker 2: whole lot differently about it if there was new evidence,
29:32
Speaker 2: Like I also see datelines in twenty twenties of like
29:37
Speaker 2: people who do deserve to get a new trial because
29:42
Speaker 2: of various reasons and don't get it across the country,
29:46
Speaker 2: not just in South Carolina. But I mean, I have
29:51
Speaker 2: no idea how many people innocent people are in prison
29:54
Speaker 2: in our system. But as we were talking about, like,
29:56
Speaker 2: we know it's not perfect, and we know I know
29:59
Speaker 2: that the there's a lot more people that deserve another trial,
30:05
Speaker 2: more so than Alex. Like I've seen cases where like
30:09
Speaker 2: DNA has basically exonerated a person and it still takes
30:14
Speaker 2: years for them to get a new trial.
30:16
Speaker 1: Yep, if they do, it's so upsetting to me.
30:23
Speaker 2: It's just really really upsetting.
30:27
Speaker 3: So before we get into the contempt hearing that you
30:33
Speaker 3: are currently involved in, which also outrages me, one thing
30:39
Speaker 3: that you know that people forget is how quickly alec
30:43
Speaker 3: He started unraveling publicly after the murders. There were the
30:48
Speaker 3: financial theft allegations, the roadside shooting, the opioid addiction claims.
30:53
Speaker 1: So how much of this case do you think.
30:56
Speaker 3: Is really just about privilege and power protecting people for decades,
31:01
Speaker 3: all of it.
31:02
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that it's really impossible to talk
31:08
Speaker 2: about this case in a responsible way that helps people
31:13
Speaker 2: understand what's going on without talking about power and privilege.
31:17
Speaker 2: I mean, this man, his family was the law in
31:20
Speaker 2: South Carolina, and we can't like get past we can't
31:24
Speaker 2: like I remember, we covered stories on the murderch Murders
31:29
Speaker 2: podcast of like his father, his father got him out
31:32
Speaker 2: of everything that he ever did, and he would so
31:37
Speaker 2: many people would tell me. He would joke, like, my
31:39
Speaker 2: daddy's a solicitor, I can do whatever I want, and
31:42
Speaker 2: like my family is the law in South Carolina. Sorry
31:46
Speaker 2: for my bad accent. I'm not trying to insult Southern people.
31:49
Speaker 2: Just Alex Murdoch. By the way, but like, yeah, it's
31:53
Speaker 2: a when it come. When you really look at this
31:57
Speaker 2: case and everything about it and why people so fascinated
32:01
Speaker 2: by it, I think it's a man that was given
32:05
Speaker 2: so much power and privilege his entire life and believed
32:09
Speaker 2: that he could get away with anything, and he's still
32:12
Speaker 2: doing that. Like I still think that he believes that
32:15
Speaker 2: he's going to wiggle his way out of all of this.
32:17
Speaker 1: Right, he's quite literally above the law, just right.
32:21
Speaker 2: But the system has created that monster. It's not like
32:25
Speaker 2: it came out of nowhere.
32:27
Speaker 4: Yeah.
32:42
Speaker 3: Do you think that all this media attention ultimately helped
32:46
Speaker 3: to expose corruption in South Carolina or did it just
32:50
Speaker 3: create chaos around the trial?
32:54
Speaker 2: I think it helped expose it. I think at the
32:57
Speaker 2: end of the day, I think that again, our prosecution
33:03
Speaker 2: did the best that they possibly could have done, and
33:06
Speaker 2: what happened with Becky was not their fault at all.
33:09
Speaker 2: I think that they because the eyes in the world
33:11
Speaker 2: of the world were on them, they really really cared
33:17
Speaker 2: to do a great job. And yeah, I mean I
33:25
Speaker 2: think that it does help, but it's also really frustrating
33:29
Speaker 2: when you uncover corruption and you show everybody and then
33:33
Speaker 2: like people in California are outraged, and people in Wisconsin
33:36
Speaker 2: are outraged, and people in Italy are outraged. But it's
33:40
Speaker 2: still like I need the people, the few people in
33:45
Speaker 2: power in this state to see it, you know, like
33:49
Speaker 2: it does help. But at the same time, it gets
33:53
Speaker 2: so frustrating when we're all like we see it, don't
33:56
Speaker 2: you see it? It's so messed up. I mean, like,
33:58
Speaker 2: what have you heard with it? Like what has you
34:01
Speaker 2: been like as you have seen in the last week
34:06
Speaker 2: the reaction to the case. What have you seen?
34:09
Speaker 1: I mean everyone is outraged.
34:11
Speaker 3: I mean the amount of people that are sending me
34:13
Speaker 3: all the articles like did.
34:15
Speaker 1: You see this? Did you see this kid? You believe it?
34:17
Speaker 3: You know? Uh yeah, I mean everyone thinks that he's
34:21
Speaker 3: guilty and it's ridiculous, Like that's what that's generally what
34:26
Speaker 3: the feeling is. And then a fascination again because here
34:31
Speaker 3: we go again, here is yet one more tributary, and
34:36
Speaker 3: this whole thing that is just gonna it just keeps.
34:38
Speaker 3: It's like it has more and more tentacles, this whole family.
34:42
Speaker 3: And I think anytime I went back and watched one
34:47
Speaker 3: of the documentaries and I was like, God, it's just.
34:52
Speaker 1: It's all right there, it's all right there. He basically
34:56
Speaker 1: says it in court on the stand. You know, they
35:00
Speaker 1: he's guilty. It's just like it's uh, it's kind of unreal. Yeah. Yes,
35:07
Speaker 1: that's a long witted way of saying.
35:09
Speaker 3: Everyone that I have ever spoken to about this things,
35:12
Speaker 3: he's guilty.
35:14
Speaker 2: Right, And like it's funny because they say one thing
35:17
Speaker 2: to me, right, and like what I see and com
35:19
Speaker 2: I try to limit myself and not get too crazy
35:22
Speaker 2: with looking through Facebook comments, but it's the same thing
35:26
Speaker 2: when I've what I've seen, Like I think that overwhelmingly
35:32
Speaker 2: people see it, and we all saw it in the trial.
35:34
Speaker 2: And like you said, like during the trial, first of all,
35:38
Speaker 2: he testified, which is supposed to decrease your chances of
35:43
Speaker 2: getting an appeal. It's supposed to like when you testified.
35:48
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm probably saying it wrong for lawyers will
35:53
Speaker 2: probably correct me. But I remember my lawyer friends were
35:56
Speaker 2: saying at the time, like basically, because when you when
36:00
Speaker 2: you testify, like you're rolling a big, big dice, and
36:05
Speaker 2: you are, you're also convincing, like you're also giving a
36:12
Speaker 2: lot of wiggle room for the jury to say, I
36:15
Speaker 2: believe what he did. I believe he did it because
36:18
Speaker 2: of what you said, which is what happened, Like a
36:20
Speaker 2: lot of them said. His testimony convinced me his testimony
36:24
Speaker 2: in the kennel video, because it all comes down to,
36:28
Speaker 2: like he could not explain why he was there at
36:31
Speaker 2: the kennels right before they were murdered, and then lied
36:34
Speaker 2: about it about.
36:36
Speaker 1: You how, I mean, yeah, I don't know, how do you.
36:43
Speaker 2: Get past that? And like it's it's also I guess
36:48
Speaker 2: that's reassuring for whatever happens with the new trial if
36:52
Speaker 2: nothing about if for some reason, nothing about like the
36:55
Speaker 2: motive is allowed in I mean, you still have that,
36:58
Speaker 2: and that's pretty damning and hard to get past of,
37:02
Speaker 2: like why were you there? What do you know? Why
37:07
Speaker 2: did you lie about it?
37:09
Speaker 1: And also that there's no other evidence.
37:11
Speaker 3: They've never presented someone exactly some other reason, right.
37:16
Speaker 2: Another theory, right, I mean, before trial, it was a
37:20
Speaker 2: big question if they were going to blame like drug
37:23
Speaker 2: dealers or like the cartel. You know, that was a
37:27
Speaker 2: big rumor, Yeah, blame the cartel, And I was kind
37:33
Speaker 2: of surprised that they didn't. They still have never offered
37:37
Speaker 2: anything like that because even that like makes it and
37:41
Speaker 2: I don't believe that, but like it makes a lot
37:43
Speaker 2: more sense than you have this guy who was there
37:46
Speaker 2: right before they were murdered, and there's evidence showing that
37:49
Speaker 2: he's right there, and he claims that he like ran
37:53
Speaker 2: into his house and took a nap while they were
37:55
Speaker 2: while his family and.
37:56
Speaker 1: Then like put the clothes out.
37:58
Speaker 3: There were so many weird, right tales of the case
38:01
Speaker 3: that you're like, this makes no sense.
38:04
Speaker 2: Right and unless you's house and at nine o'clock at night,
38:09
Speaker 2: like and was going seventy miles an hour on a
38:12
Speaker 2: country like there's all these things that is like what
38:14
Speaker 2: and drove past Maggie's phone? How do you drive past
38:17
Speaker 2: Maggie's like or gotta go down all of these stupid
38:22
Speaker 2: rabbit holes again? But it all like and I know
38:25
Speaker 2: that everybody. The biggest criticism that I've ever gotten is
38:30
Speaker 2: that I'm biased. And it's like I've been very open
38:35
Speaker 2: to hearing other theories that make sense and seeing other
38:39
Speaker 2: evidence that would makes sense.
38:41
Speaker 3: Isn't bias more defined by when you don't? It's like
38:45
Speaker 3: a you have actual evidence and experience of research, which
38:50
Speaker 3: I feel like that's a different word.
38:52
Speaker 2: That's just it.
38:53
Speaker 1: You're educated on the big facts.
38:56
Speaker 2: Right, an educated opinion, right, Like, and I'm fine with
39:01
Speaker 2: telling people that, like, here's everything that I've known about
39:05
Speaker 2: this guy, and like, I really believe that he did it,
39:08
Speaker 2: and I think that there's enough evidence to believe that
39:11
Speaker 2: other for another jury again to believe that he did it.
39:15
Speaker 3: Will they be able to bring in the boat crash
39:17
Speaker 3: and Mallory Beach's death and all of that.
39:20
Speaker 1: Will they be allowed to bring that?
39:22
Speaker 2: It's a financial part, right, Like, it's a part of
39:26
Speaker 2: the financial pressure that he was facing. So I think
39:30
Speaker 2: that circling back to your last question, probably we're going
39:34
Speaker 2: to have some hearings about what's going to be allowed
39:37
Speaker 2: in and what isn't before the trial. And I will
39:42
Speaker 2: be very interested because of the wording that the Supreme
39:46
Speaker 2: Court gave how careful they're going to be with allowing anything.
39:51
Speaker 2: But yeah, the boat crash was a huge part of it.
39:53
Speaker 2: There's just all of these crazy events going on in
39:57
Speaker 2: this man's life that led to the moment where I
40:01
Speaker 2: believe he killed his wife and son. And I will
40:04
Speaker 2: also say this, I just don't understand for the life
40:07
Speaker 2: of me, how in other cases that we've seen, like
40:12
Speaker 2: cheating is always an easy motive for people to believe,
40:17
Speaker 2: you know, like, oh, he was cheating or she was cheating,
40:21
Speaker 2: so of course he killed his wife, Like wanting a
40:25
Speaker 2: divorce is always an easy motive. And then you see
40:28
Speaker 2: in trials like them hammering that home of like the
40:33
Speaker 2: husband being unfaithful or whatever. I just don't see how
40:37
Speaker 2: this is any different. It's a factor like jumping to
40:40
Speaker 2: the conclusion of murder and jumping to like I'm going
40:44
Speaker 2: to use murder to solve my problems. Should never be
40:48
Speaker 2: like anything that makes anybody that makes sense in anybody's brain. Ever,
40:53
Speaker 2: Like I find it weird when people are like it
40:57
Speaker 2: makes sense why he killed Maggie, but why did he
40:59
Speaker 2: kill his son Paul, And like it does not make
41:02
Speaker 2: any sense money, like it never makes sense unless you're
41:06
Speaker 2: defending your life as like in real time, murder should
41:12
Speaker 2: never make sense, and like this motive is complicated, but
41:16
Speaker 2: is it that far fetch.
41:18
Speaker 3: Well, he has like all of them, the he was
41:21
Speaker 3: unfaithful to her, exact financial problems, and he had a
41:25
Speaker 3: drug addiction, right, sort of has all of the factors,
41:29
Speaker 3: So like just pick or you know, it's any and
41:32
Speaker 3: all of.
41:33
Speaker 2: Them, right, it's all of the factors. But it's just
41:36
Speaker 2: really funny like speaking to like you, for instance, and
41:40
Speaker 2: people from other places besides South Carolina, because here it
41:44
Speaker 2: was such a big deal and it's hard, like, do
41:48
Speaker 2: you remember another recent trial that's captured people's attention in
41:52
Speaker 2: the way that Jay Simpson, which is a very long
41:58
Speaker 2: time ago, Yeah.
41:59
Speaker 1: Very long time. I go for Scott Peterson.
42:02
Speaker 2: Scott Peterson, it was pretty big.
42:03
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's also trying to get into a trial, and
42:06
Speaker 3: I think they just said bye bye.
42:08
Speaker 1: I think later.
42:10
Speaker 2: They did, which is fine, But yeah, I mean, there
42:16
Speaker 2: are very few trials that capture people's attention to this extent.
42:20
Speaker 2: And so the fact that everybody and I keep getting
42:23
Speaker 2: messages of like, how are you feeling? Because I don't
42:26
Speaker 2: want to go through this again?
42:28
Speaker 3: Right right, everybody's like looking to you, I guide us
42:32
Speaker 3: through this.
42:33
Speaker 1: Help us, help us make it.
42:35
Speaker 2: We're gonna be okay. I mean, I do feel like
42:39
Speaker 2: they can do the they can get a guilty verdict. Again,
42:42
Speaker 2: it's but it's again, it's it's it's all proving the point.
42:46
Speaker 2: It's all proving the point that our justice system is
42:49
Speaker 2: not fair, and it's definitely not fair in South Carolina.
42:52
Speaker 2: And he gets the system that everybody else doesn't.
43:13
Speaker 1: Talking about not fair.
43:15
Speaker 3: That's a great segue into whatever you're comfortable talking about
43:19
Speaker 3: or allowed to. You have found yourself pulled into a
43:25
Speaker 3: legal drama yourself, and that is really tangentially related or
43:31
Speaker 3: quite directly related to the murder murders and the entire case.
43:38
Speaker 3: I just want to say before I even talk about this,
43:40
Speaker 3: that I am so disgusted at the way that you
43:45
Speaker 3: have been treated publicly by people that are supposed to
43:50
Speaker 3: be upholding the law, by people that are you know,
43:54
Speaker 3: should be exemplary in.
43:56
Speaker 1: Their moral, you know behavior.
44:00
Speaker 3: I just with like my jaw is on the ground
44:03
Speaker 3: at some of the things that have been said to you.
44:06
Speaker 1: So what is going on exactly?
44:11
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for that, and I appreciate that this
44:14
Speaker 2: could take hours, so I will be as short as possible.
44:20
Speaker 2: I could go on and on and on about all
44:22
Speaker 2: this craziness, but yes, I have unfortunately been wrapped up
44:26
Speaker 2: in legal warfare for six months now with of all people,
44:32
Speaker 2: Greg Parker and his attorneys who represented Alex Murdoch's co conspirators.
44:40
Speaker 2: So this legal warfare that involves the Second Beach case,
44:46
Speaker 2: so the Malory Beach case, for just a recap of everybody.
44:51
Speaker 2: And when I started covering this case, this was like
44:54
Speaker 2: ground zero of everything. Was this lawsuit where Mark ten On,
45:00
Speaker 2: behalf of the Beach family, sued Alex Murdoch, Buster Murdoch,
45:05
Speaker 2: the Alex Murdoch's father, whose house they were at that night,
45:11
Speaker 2: another restaurant that they were at that night, and a
45:15
Speaker 2: gas station called Parker's gas Station. And most everybody settled
45:21
Speaker 2: very quickly in the lawsuit except for Greg Parker, Buster
45:26
Speaker 2: and of course Alex Murdoch. And as we know, this
45:30
Speaker 2: lawsuit was a big pressure point for Alex Murdoch and
45:35
Speaker 2: his financial crisis that he was experiencing at the time
45:39
Speaker 2: that his and his father was dying and all these
45:43
Speaker 2: other things were going on around the time of the murders.
45:46
Speaker 2: But he no longer had insurance. Insurance was not covering
45:49
Speaker 2: him on this massive lawsuit. And so this billionaire Greg
45:54
Speaker 2: Parker owns a gas station. And I always thought it
45:56
Speaker 2: was weird that like his gas station sold sold the
46:01
Speaker 2: liquor there, sold the alcohol to Paul Murdoch and Pal
46:05
Speaker 2: Murdoch's friends that night before she died. They were underage,
46:10
Speaker 2: and it was it was pretty much point blank, like
46:14
Speaker 2: they did this. It was bad, right, And I always
46:17
Speaker 2: wrote it like that, like it's just weird. This guy
46:20
Speaker 2: isn't settling, Like we all know why Alex Murdoch isn't
46:23
Speaker 2: settling because he's got all this other crazy stuff, But
46:27
Speaker 2: why isn't this guy settling? So Greig Parker did not
46:30
Speaker 2: like me for a lot of reasons for a lot
46:32
Speaker 2: of years, and he finally settled with the Beach family
46:34
Speaker 2: for millions and millions of dollars in twenty twenty three.
46:40
Speaker 2: But during the course of his lawsuit, he he was
46:46
Speaker 2: sued again by the Beach family for intentional infliction of
46:50
Speaker 2: emotional harm. And what Mark Tinsley accuses him of doing,
46:54
Speaker 2: which is so horrible, is basically pressuring the Beach family,
47:00
Speaker 2: making the Beach family's lives more horrible, and pressuring them
47:04
Speaker 2: to drop the lawsuit against him, and one of those
47:10
Speaker 2: things this is so horrible, But a fake want to
47:15
Speaker 2: be journalist who was hired by Greg Parker to sort
47:19
Speaker 2: of shape the narrative in his favor, got a hold
47:24
Speaker 2: of these horrible photos of Mallory Beach's body and use
47:30
Speaker 2: them for a sizzle reel for a document to sell
47:35
Speaker 2: a documentary.
47:38
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
47:43
Speaker 2: Somehow in the course of this crazy lawsuit, I my
47:47
Speaker 2: name was brought up as like, but what didmanity do?
47:51
Speaker 2: And people start accusing me of having the pictures, of
47:55
Speaker 2: selling the pictures I had nothing to it, of being
48:00
Speaker 2: paid by Mark Tensley to push his narrative. All of
48:05
Speaker 2: these crazy things that like did not happen and there
48:09
Speaker 2: is no evidence.
48:10
Speaker 3: And go completely contrary to any sort of way you
48:15
Speaker 3: have presented yourself since you have been in the public eye.
48:18
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. Right, it would be like it'd
48:21
Speaker 2: be the dumbest thing that I could pass it like
48:23
Speaker 2: it is the I stand for victims. I stand for
48:26
Speaker 2: people who are pushed around by the justice system, Like
48:29
Speaker 2: I would never do that. I hate when journalists use
48:33
Speaker 2: their use their positions to do things to make grieving
48:39
Speaker 2: families worse, like and make I take that very personal,
48:44
Speaker 2: like like you said, it's it's everything that I've ever
48:46
Speaker 2: been against that I was suddenly accused of, And I
48:48
Speaker 2: was like, what, So I got a subpoena to be deposed,
48:52
Speaker 2: and my lawyers stood up for my rights as a
48:55
Speaker 2: journalist to not be deposed, and like also just said,
48:59
Speaker 2: like she has noting to do with this, and then
49:01
Speaker 2: Liz was deposed as well. Liz sat in this deposition
49:05
Speaker 2: where they tormented her for hours and use this case
49:10
Speaker 2: basically to badger her, torment her, get information about our
49:14
Speaker 2: company and post it on the internet. And they've just
49:17
Speaker 2: done all these horrible things in the last few months.
49:21
Speaker 2: So now I don't even know how to like bring
49:27
Speaker 2: this to basically I finally did a deposition. I also
49:35
Speaker 2: have seen evidence of them collaborating with this man who
49:39
Speaker 2: I believe is a stalker of mine. He posts about
49:42
Speaker 2: me obsessively all the time. This is like I could
49:46
Speaker 2: get into this for really forever. But like just all
49:49
Speaker 2: of these horrible and crazy things that made me feel
49:52
Speaker 2: unsafe about these people. And like you said, there should
49:56
Speaker 2: be some meeting about being an officer of the CORE,
50:00
Speaker 2: but there is not in South Carolina. Like, I do
50:02
Speaker 2: not trust these people whatsoever. And I believe that like
50:07
Speaker 2: I believe that they want me to feel unsafe. I
50:09
Speaker 2: believe that they want me to be quiet because I
50:12
Speaker 2: also I expose their clients. I expose Corey Fleming and
50:17
Speaker 2: Russell Lafeete and Liz, and I made them both look
50:21
Speaker 2: dumb and they are. It feels like wanting revenge on that.
50:25
Speaker 2: So all of that is to say that they are
50:28
Speaker 2: using the court system now in an attempt to hold
50:32
Speaker 2: me in contempt. So I have kind of like a
50:35
Speaker 2: mini trial going on, and I laugh so I can't cry,
50:42
Speaker 2: and I know that they will use this for like
50:45
Speaker 2: they use everything, all my words against me in a
50:48
Speaker 2: long motion. So that's been a really fun like every
50:50
Speaker 2: single thing that I say appears in a legal motion
50:53
Speaker 2: of like shame on her for saying that. But yeah,
50:56
Speaker 2: I mean I this has just been so stressful. It's
51:00
Speaker 2: all proven my point of like just how wrong the
51:02
Speaker 2: justice system is. This all could have been so like
51:07
Speaker 2: if these lawyers behaved in a way that was ethical
51:10
Speaker 2: and that made me feel safe, none of this would
51:13
Speaker 2: have happened. But like here we are, and I could
51:17
Speaker 2: possibly end up paying a billionaire's legal fees, which could
51:22
Speaker 2: be up to five hundred thousand dollars.
51:24
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't I get. It's like I
51:29
Speaker 1: don't even I don't have the words. It's it's all
51:31
Speaker 1: so un believable.
51:34
Speaker 3: It just is so even the things like that I
51:37
Speaker 3: was reading and listening to Liz the episode where she
51:40
Speaker 3: really broke down everything that had been going on with here.
51:42
Speaker 3: I was like, I can't, like, I just it's it's
51:48
Speaker 3: unfathomable that this is happening. So I just really like
51:55
Speaker 3: and I and I've read I'm so happy that you
51:58
Speaker 3: have so many people that support you. And I don't know,
52:01
Speaker 3: I'm assuming you don't even know half of these people
52:04
Speaker 3: on the internet that support you. And I just read
52:07
Speaker 3: some comments where they were like, please let us help
52:09
Speaker 3: you with those fees if you have, you know. I
52:12
Speaker 3: just so there is something quite beautiful about that, right,
52:17
Speaker 3: connection with the public. I just I'm I I'm sorry,
52:25
Speaker 3: and I like, you have so much support, and.
52:28
Speaker 2: Well, thank you and thank you for listening to me,
52:30
Speaker 2: Like I am like, I don't want to bore people.
52:33
Speaker 2: This is an exhaustive, stupid it's like it's and it's
52:38
Speaker 2: extremely complicated. They also accuse me constantly of like doing
52:41
Speaker 2: all of this to get views on my podcast, and
52:44
Speaker 2: I'm like, it is so hard to explain to people
52:46
Speaker 2: what's going on, Like people just want to hear about murder,
52:50
Speaker 2: like that's right, I want to hear about like back
52:53
Speaker 2: and forth legal drama. It does not get anybody going.
52:56
Speaker 1: They will want to fatigue you. So that you actually
53:00
Speaker 1: you talk about.
53:00
Speaker 3: What's really so because you are so outspoken about victims'
53:04
Speaker 3: rights through all your reporting, what concerns you most right now?
53:09
Speaker 1: For Maggie and Paul's surviving family members.
53:13
Speaker 2: It's again, it's just a lot of trauma that they
53:18
Speaker 2: have to deal with again, a lot of and some
53:24
Speaker 2: of them do believe that Alex did not do it,
53:27
Speaker 2: which that's their right to believe that, But I mean,
53:31
Speaker 2: this is just a lot of reliving trauma. Trial is
53:36
Speaker 2: a very very horrific, grueling experience for anybody, but especially
53:42
Speaker 2: a victim. And that has been one thing that I
53:44
Speaker 2: have noticed and come to terms with with all of
53:48
Speaker 2: my legal stuff, is like I didn't lose a loved one.
53:51
Speaker 2: I'm not fighting for it. Like there's a lot people
53:56
Speaker 2: people fight the legal system and have a lot more
53:59
Speaker 2: to lose and a lot more on the line. And
54:03
Speaker 2: I'm thankful that it's it's money that I have to
54:05
Speaker 2: worry about. But like it is I have experienced in
54:11
Speaker 2: a way like how exhausted. It's all exhausting, It's all stressful,
54:16
Speaker 2: it's exhausting, and you have to put people through so much,
54:23
Speaker 2: and people that just wanted like people want to move on,
54:29
Speaker 2: wanted to move on with their lives, like most people
54:31
Speaker 2: involved in this wanted to move on to the next
54:35
Speaker 2: thing and not be stuck in this. Like maybe Becky
54:41
Speaker 2: Hill probably wanted to talk about.
54:42
Speaker 3: Him forever, not anymore so save Becky, everyone else was
54:47
Speaker 3: pretty done.
54:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're like we're done, and it. I just I
54:53
Speaker 2: feel horrible for like Blanca the housekeeper who had testified,
55:00
Speaker 2: like she has to relive all of this again. There's
55:04
Speaker 2: just a lot of really key witnesses that I'm sure
55:08
Speaker 2: that was probably one of the scariest things that they've
55:11
Speaker 2: ever done in their life, spinning up and testifying against
55:15
Speaker 2: Alex Murdock and then to have to do it again.
55:19
Speaker 2: I really feel for all those people.
55:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do too. I do too.
55:25
Speaker 3: Oh man, Well, I mean I wish I was saying
55:29
Speaker 3: I'm next time we'll talk about something else, but maybe.
55:32
Speaker 1: Maybe that won't be the case.
55:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll have me on whenever. I love talking to you,
55:38
Speaker 2: so whenever. I feel like some of that was like, oh,
55:42
Speaker 2: this is like a therapy session, let me get this.
55:44
Speaker 3: Out, good good, good good good.
55:47
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean it's it's a never ending where
55:50
Speaker 2: like oh, Jay ended.
55:54
Speaker 3: I mean it took a lot. Then he wrote his
55:57
Speaker 3: book If I did it, I mean.
55:59
Speaker 2: Good, and he just wouldn't go away.
56:01
Speaker 1: He just wouldn't go away until he actually died.
56:05
Speaker 2: Right. He even commented on this case he thought he
56:09
Speaker 2: thought Ali did it even believe he even didn't.
56:16
Speaker 1: Even OJ thinks you're guilty, right.
56:19
Speaker 2: Trouble right exactly, so that guy.
56:22
Speaker 1: Thinks you've did it. You you you definitely did.
56:24
Speaker 2: It, right.
56:26
Speaker 1: Yeah.
56:26
Speaker 2: I just loved how he chimed in. That was just
56:28
Speaker 2: such a I was like, that was one of my
56:29
Speaker 2: moments where I was like, oh God, like everybody's watching this, like,
56:33
Speaker 2: oh God, this is oj is what is happening? But yeah,
56:40
Speaker 2: I mean I always believe like gotta be positive and
56:45
Speaker 2: see the positive, and I think that a thing that
56:48
Speaker 2: I will walk away from is like, Yeah, that's the
56:52
Speaker 2: discussion right now, is like what in the world is
56:54
Speaker 2: happening in South Carolina that this has to happen again,
56:58
Speaker 2: and what is wrong with their justices. I'm there and
57:00
Speaker 2: I'm glad that people are having those conversations.
57:03
Speaker 1: I am too, Mandy.
57:05
Speaker 3: It is always such a pleasure to speak with you,
57:07
Speaker 3: and I continue to be in awe of the work
57:10
Speaker 3: that you do, and I just I think you're a
57:13
Speaker 3: rock star. So keep going and thank you so much
57:18
Speaker 3: for talking with us today.
57:20
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and good luck with your case.
57:24
Speaker 2: I'll keep you updated.
57:25
Speaker 1: Yes, please please do