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Michelle Johnston: The Bold Shift Behind Better Results · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Whether they faced challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Today we have Dr.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Michelle Johnston.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: She was named a Woman of the Year, Top 10 Executive Coach, and Top 500 Business Leader.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: She is redefining leadership from the power of connection.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: She is an award-winning leadership expert and Clifton A.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Morvant Distinguished Professor of Business at Loyola University, New Orleans.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: She blends decades of strategic communication expertise with real-world insights to help leaders thrive.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: Her best-selling book, The Seismic Shift in Leadership, illustrates how much connection-driven leadership builds stronger teams and better results.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And her upcoming book, The Seismic Shift in You, offers a transformative approach to leadership that starts with the most crucial element, you.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Michelle extends her work in global reach through her executive coaching, keynote speaking, and her top 10% podcast.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Lee, thank you so much for having me.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've heard so much about your work and your book and the impact that you're making in the world with your bold content.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, let's get seismic in this episode.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to talk with you not only about your first book, but your second book that's coming out here uh in December and really dig into it.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: But let's just dig into being bold for a second.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: How would you define bold in the world of Dr.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Michelle Johnston?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I've been a professor for over 25 years at Loyola.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And when I first began, I was very young, 28, coming out of my PhD program.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't yet have my doctorate, so it's called ABD.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I got a job at Loyola teaching in the MBA program.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I was younger than most of the MBA students.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so in order to be bold back then, I really felt like I had to fit in and I was too scared to be me.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I put on this mask and I pretended to be like all the other 50-year-old professors around me and super, super strict, super hard.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, never showed myself, my personality, you know, just walked in and lectured and it didn't work.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I received really poor faculty evaluations and I couldn't figure out why, because to me, I was doing everything that my colleagues were doing, and they were winning faculty member of the year awards.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: They were known as some of the best professors, and I was emulating them and I had them as mentors.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so the boldest thing that I did in my 30s is I finally gave myself permission to be me and to lean in with my strengths.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, am told that I'm enthusiastic and excited about what I do and I have a lot of energy, and I was suppressing all of those things, thinking that they were bad things.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I finally, again, just gave myself permission.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And believe it or not, it did.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bold move and took a lot of courage because I was also one of the very few women.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was the first woman who ever had a baby, like got pregnant and had a baby among the faculty.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so I just finally said, I have to be me.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: And thankfully, once I was and showed my true personality and I didn't dress like everybody else and started wearing bold colors and showed my bold personality, it worked.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thank goodness it worked.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think that's what then prompted me.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, you know, in academia, it's publisher parish.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so once I published and earned tenure, then I could lift my head up and really decide, okay, what do I want to do now?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of impact do I want to make?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to help others who were suppressing their voices and suppressing who they were.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I went on a mission to help leaders with connection because at the end of the day, you can't really connect with anyone well if you're not connected with yourself.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So your definition of bold would be authentic being yourself, maybe when it may be uncomfortable or you're not sure if it's what's expected of you, but you're going to do it anyway, and really owning it, owning who you are.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: All the good, the bad, the ugly, the in-between, the ups and downs, all of it.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Just being real rather than I really find that as humans, our default is to fit in.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Our default is to look like everybody else, sound like everybody else, dress like everybody else, talk like everybody else.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so to be bold is to say, you know what?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Why be like everybody else and embrace who you are?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that takes a lot of time, a lot of self-awareness, a lot of reflection to really understand what your strengths are, what your story is, and not have any shame around how you grew up, where you grew up, your family of origin, that story.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: I ran from that, my story for so long because I was a corporate brat and we moved around every two years.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't have a home and I didn't know where I was from.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't from where I was born, which is Alexandria, Virginia.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't from where I went to high school because I went to three different high schools.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then as soon as I graduated from high school and went to college, my parents moved from that city.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't know where I was from.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I really ran from my story.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't have a story.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of being bold and giving yourself permission to be you requires a, I mean, I remember give uh telling myself, my gosh, I make my students tell their stories in the first week of class to create camaraderie, to create trust, to really get to know them.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yet I didn't know my own story.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's never too late to spend time with yourself, like, okay, who am I?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: What's my story?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: Let's not run from it.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what are my strengths?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: What are people telling me that actually it when I was receiving those faculty evaluations that were below average, and you can't have that if you're gonna earn tenure, I would look in the strengths column, and that's the only reason, seriously, that I knew that they saw my enthusiasm, my passion, my energy as a strength.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And here this whole time I'd been suppressing it because no one else had that.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: No one else was bouncing up the stairs into the classroom, excited.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they were all much more mild-mannered.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so you really just have to look and hear what people say about you and and start believing it and then leaning in with that.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a long game.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think owning your story, I think, you know, being in my early 50s now, I'm like, I'm just like understanding some of the chapters or even like what they were named, or whoa, I forgot that was part of the story.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I tried to forget it or put it away, but it just really wasn't something that maybe I even thought was impacting my world today.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm like, yeah, that totally is.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's an unfolding piece to getting to know who you are.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: And as you evolve, you'll need to revisit that, you know, and make sure things are aligned with regard to your values and your purpose and what you want to do and the legacy you want to lead.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, as you're evolving, those are all it's it's just something that's never like check the box done, I guess.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Would you agree with that?
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: That is a great point that I had not thought about because so much of the work I do, at least I teach leadership still at Loyola, and the work that I do with my students is owning their childhood, where they were from, their birth order, what their childhood was like, their high school, because now they're at college.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, for people like you and I, you're right.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Then you've got to also then own, I've been in New Orleans for 30 years.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do now have a home.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I do now have a story to tell.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so leadership is ever-evolving, self-awareness is ever evolving.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, there are times where you have to sometimes I hire a coach to help me.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an executive coach because I think, okay, I've been giving, giving, giving to so many fantastic leaders.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think I need to go inward and make sure that I'm spending the time doing what I need to be doing that's filling my bucket and my soul.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'll hire a coach to help me figure that out.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then I can jump back in and make sure it aligns with my values and what I want now at this age in my life.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think definitely.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've had coaches on and off throughout my career, and I think they're different at different points in your life.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also therapist and like all the things that you may need as your life changes or things go up or down, or just they're different.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think having someone to talk to give you another vantage point is always, always valuable.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Just because you are a coach doesn't mean you don't need a coach.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'll say that for myself, you know.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I agree with that wholeheartedly.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, where did seismic shift come in?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, where did your focus on that particular word?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you choose those words for your first book and your second?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: So it took a lot of brainstorming with all kinds of uh the people on my team when I wrote the first book, The Seismic Shift in Leadership, and it wasn't named yet.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so we would get on these calls with my my publisher, get on calls with my podcast team, with my my website team.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I need a word, a phrase to capture this huge shift that I'm seeing, that old authoritarian commanded control leadership style does not work anymore.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Jerk boss has got to go out, right?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we need to lean in much more to connection.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in these brainstorming calls, I can't remember.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: We were like, oh my gosh, okay, so it's a shift and we've got to figure out the title.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's some sort of shift.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody said it's a seismic shift.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Bam, that's it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's the seismic shift in leadership.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then that same year when I launched that book, I launched my podcast, Seismic Shift, so we can talk about all the seismic shifts that are happening in the world.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then I had the courage at the Thinkers 50 awards two Novembers ago.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: I was there with my mentor, Marshall Goldsmith, and he received the Lifetime Achievement Award.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And we're listening to the top thinkers in the world talk about seismic shifts.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Marshall, we need to write a book about the seismic shifts in leadership and how we can address those and be at our best despite all of the changes.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I said, Will you be my co-author?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, Yes.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so then we kept it in line with the brand of seismic shifts.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So my next book that's coming out in December, and you can order it now on Amazon, it's the seismic shift in you, because we're only going to be at our best if just like the conversation we're having right now, Lee, if you look inward and spend a lot of time with yourself so that you can know how to show up at your best.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a seismic shift in you.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: How do you know if you need a shift?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is there some type of indicator?
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Is there some type of light that comes on that we shouldn't mute?
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think everybody needs to shift right now because it's been the indicators of success have been achievement, title, promotion, salary.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we're finding that a lot of people are burned out and a lot of people aren't happy.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are depressed.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Vivek Murphy was our U.S.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Surgeon General, and he wrote a book called Together because he found out that there were 30 million Americans depressed.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: We were in a period he called it an epidemic of isolation and disconnection that was increasing our mortality by 60%.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: We were dying earlier because of it.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was increasing our risk for heart attacks and strokes by 30%.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a real problem with the way that we've been measuring, I think, and the way that we've been working and burnout and in organizations today, Lee, engagement scores haven't gone up.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: They've been at 30% since 1999.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: So if you look at how many people are feeling depressed, disconnected, isolated, burned out, and not engaged at work, we need a shift.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe it's a shift towards showing up more human, a shift towards bringing humanity back into the workplace, a shift more towards connection.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so my second book is also on connection and it starts with you.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, tell me about the word connection.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: What's your definition of that?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: My definition of connection is do you feel seen, heard, valued, respected, appreciated?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I believe it's five dimensions.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And when you look at a trust in organizations, employees will say, the research that I've read, employees will say, Well, I trust my leader when my leader gets me.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if you really deconstruct that, the only way as a leader that you're going to convince your employees that you get them is by connecting with them at a deeper level, not just that you look at them as dollar signs, as how they're contributing to the bottom line, as cogs in a wheel.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: You actually see them as full humans and you get to know them intentionally and you embed time in your calendar to get to know them intentionally.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so to me, that's connection and that can be done literally in 10 minutes on a one-on-one Zoom with a leader and a direct report.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: A leader says, You know what?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I've ever heard your story.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm dying to know, like, where are you from?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where are you born?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about you.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Then all of a sudden, that person feels seen, heard, valued, respected, and appreciated.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: It could be as little as celebrating wins.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I was speaking with some executives yesterday, and I said, here's what the survey data tells us.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: You all have so many wins and you go so fast, and yet the employees feel like you don't celebrate the wins.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: So then ergo, you don't appreciate them.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why they're leaving because they don't feel appreciated.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So by just celebrating wins, saying thank you for the hard work on this project, let's pause for a second and make sure that we talk about it, we debrief it, we recognize it.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you can show up for your employees and make them feel connected.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like that's in a certain order?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: So seeing, heard, respected, valued, appreciated.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like it's one or maybe some of the others, or it has to be all of them at the same time?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you know, if you're truly in a workplace and you have all of these five, like it's a grand slam.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think sometimes in organizations I worked in in academics, it's pockets, you know.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: So like you have a pocket of a certain, you know, type of leader, or a pocket of a certain type of group that's led by a certain type of leader.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of the times the leader can set the tone for a team.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Would you agree with that?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, I have the perfect example.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So in all of my years in academia at Loyola, my whole career has been at Loyola.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I got, but I I taught at Auburn, I taught at LSU, but my whole career as a faculty member has been at Loyola.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we had a new dean, Bobby Savoie, and he comes from the business world.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: He started and sold three unbelievably successful companies.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And he was the chairman of our board.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And our dean abruptly left and he said, you know what, I'll fill in as the dean of the business school.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he loved it so much that this is his second year.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So he comes in the very first faculty meeting, and he asked all of us to create one slide that has nothing to do with our professional accomplishments and only has to do with who are we as a person.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do we have a wife, a husband, family, kids, what are our hobbies?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that happened last year, Lee.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I had been working with these people for over 25 years and I never really knew them until that exercise.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: So, yes, I do think it's a function of the leader who says, I want to get to know about you.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then he built that foundation, his very first faculty meeting.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: So then you have the foundation.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And to answer your question, I don't think it's like the Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's a hierarchy of first you have to be seen or heard, seen, and then respected.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is you've got to somehow hit on those five dimensions if you want to keep your employees.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: They need to be in order to really be productive, engaged, satisfied, happy, they need to feel that you see them, you hear them, you value them, you respect them, and you appreciate them.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, it can be just in that one exercise once a year in the faculty meeting where you get to bring your slide and tell everybody, here's all of me.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can talk about it in the snack room or the water cooler, like, oh my gosh, did you bake these brownies?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: I remembered you're a baker.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not saying you have to go deep with connection in every interaction.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to be intentional about it and figure out how to make your employees feel seen, heard, valued, respected, appreciated.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, where does a leader start if they're unsure whether they have that connection with their staff?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I meet one-to-one with them every week, and we have our team meetings and we do our breakouts and we do that retreat every year.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I feel connected.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's not so much about how many times you're in a room with someone, it's like truly understanding, like you said, know a little bit about them, obviously understand some of the things they've done in their career that they enjoy, their passions.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: What do they like to do outside of work?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do they play soccer?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Do they bake?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you know, these are all parts of who we are.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, your second book really says starts with you.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you as the leader, what do you need to start checking yourself on when it comes to if I'm not actually representing myself like I wish I would, or like you said earlier on your example of like you trying to fit in or blend in, um, maybe that's where they start.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: But is there a certain process that they go through?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: So my new book, The Seismic Shift in You, it's the seven necessary shifts.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so first you have to shift your perspective to one that is connection-based and not just achievement, achievement, achievement, achieve it, next task, next task, because that's not getting us.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: It might get us the dollars, but you're not going to keep your employees or they're not going to be satisfied.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going to stick around.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not going to be the environment you want.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So shift your perspective to one of a connection-based perspective.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then you need to shift your priorities.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And believe it or not, I'm not advocating a shift in relationship.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'm advocating a shift in prioritizing yourself first.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because what I have seen with the leaders that I coach is when they put everybody else first, thinking, well, you just told me to have a connection-based mindset and really get to know all of my leaders.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I sit on Zoom after Zoom after Zoom.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: I've gained 30 pounds.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm miserable.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: I have no work family balance, right?
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm exhausted and I'm burned out.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I work with them on where are you?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Where, where do you show up as a priority?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't because I'm making everybody else first.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're no good as a connector unless you prioritize yourself first.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so really thinking about what do I need to do?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where do I fit in my exercise?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Where do I fit in my strategic thinking?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Where do I fit in making sure that I'm home for dinner with my children and I help them?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember Drew Brees, who was the quarterback of the New Orleans Saints, and he was in my first book.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And he sat down with every single person on his offense with a Old style notebook and a pen, and went over.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: I want to know what your personal goals are, and I want to know what your professional goals are.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then he would share with them, let me tell you what I'm trying to do on offense this year, and let me tell you what I'm trying to do personally.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Help me.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've got four kids.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want to make it home so I can read them at least one bedtime story.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Will you help me with that?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's prioritizing what you need, right, to fill your tank.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the second shift your priorities.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then where it really the rubber meets the road is shifting your calendar.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: So once you figure out what your priority has to be, you first, and then I say, show me your calendar and I'll show you your priorities.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So figure out on your calendar who are the most important people that you need to interact with in order to accomplish your goals.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not here are the goals I need to accomplish.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care about how I'm gonna do it.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's the opposite.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Who are the most important people in your life, personally and professionally, because we only have one person, one life, one day, and one calendar.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: So these old, those days are over.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's my professional calendar, that's my personal calendar, that's my professional self, that's my personal self.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's one you, one calendar.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So figure out your most important relationships and make sure they're on your calendar.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: And if they're not, figure out and reduce your meeting times from 50 minutes to 30 minutes to make time for the most important people, personally and professionally.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then a leader needs to shift their meetings because meetings are no longer effective, particularly if you hop on a Zoom or you hop in a conference room and you have an agenda and you just go through the agenda and the meeting's adjourned and you go to the next meeting or the next Zoom.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't work anymore.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to figure out how do we have meetings that are full of dialogue, that are full of conversation, that are much more informal, that there's give and take.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a whole different way of conducting your meetings.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got to think about shift number five, you've got to think about the conversations that you're having.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are they creating connection?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: The language that you're using, is it creating?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Are the words you're using creating connection or disconnection?
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, and what we're finding is one of the most important shifts right now is your energy.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: You're the energy that a leader brings to a call like this is palpable, absolutely palpable.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I was interviewing Scott Miller, who led the Franklin Covey Institute in Utah for years, and now he's out on his own.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And he was so honest, he said, here's what I tell leaders to do.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: If they're unsure of whether they're connected with their people, hop on a Zoom and say, I recognize that the only way we're going to accomplish our goals that are set out by the big boss, is if we figure out how to work really well together.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to be connected to you, and let's figure this out together.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I might ask you a question that makes you uncomfortable.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so sorry.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Please know that I'm trying and tell me what would help you.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: So he's advocating just have the conversation and know that the energy you bring in to these calls and these meetings are everything.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: The energy is everything.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: So seven shifts in order to create more connection.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you kind of walk through all the way from perspective through energy.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I think that, you know, just want to repeat when it comes to priorities is not so much of like the priorities of others, but actually including yourself as a priority, right?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: As a leader.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: The number one priority has to be you, or you're no good for anybody, or you're just showing up, going through the motions, and your people aren't going to feel connected to you if you're empty.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're seeing a lot of is burned out leaders who are just burning the candle at both ends of the wick.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And how can you really show your people that you care about them if you're not caring about yourself?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about the calendar because it's one of the simplest things for someone to do.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I encourage, you know, my clients when I work with them is to really look at your calendar quarterly.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, don't just think, oh, I set it for the whole year and this is the meeting I'm gonna have with my staff.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I I made the mistake uh early on in my career as like as I was moving from manager to director to VP, on up to chief, but I was like adding one-to-ones, hour-long one-to-ones with all my direct reports.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And early on, I thought, well, I'm showing you, I'm giving you my time.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I value you, I want to have time with you and speak with you, but I'm not sure I needed to do them every week because at one point I had 10 direct reports, so 10 hours a week of one-to-ones.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: They were coming in, and you know, this was their time, so it wasn't for me to create an agenda, but you know, I think some of them didn't need to meet with me weekly, those types of things.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: So that was something that I think sometimes people get set in a routine with their calendar.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's one.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing I hear a lot is like, oh, I can't.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I block time, and I've no I've done this in the past.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I block time, but then I give it away, or I don't keep myself or hold myself accountable.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Have you heard those two things and how do we challenge those?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Some of the best advice I got was from a CEO of Sutter Health.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: His name is Warner Thomas.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was asking him about how do you connect with an organization when you have 60,000 employees, you know, reporting to you or relying on you?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: How in the world do you connect with everybody?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so he really shared with me how he looks at it from an annual perspective, making sure, you know, and then a quarterly perspective and then monthly and then weekly and daily.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the key questions he asked me, because I was coaching a bunch of his leaders, he said, Do you coach the leaders in my organization?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: He said, to embed time to think.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, No.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I said, most of them are coming to me saying they don't even have time to do their jobs.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: He said, that's on them.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's on them.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: You have to own your calendar so that it can help you reach your goals.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, Lee, meeting with your employees, your direct reports once a week is not necessarily going to help you to reach your goals.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I now am very careful in my coaching practice to really look at that calendar.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I advocate for at least 30 minutes in the morning, an hour in the afternoon, just for themselves without meetings to think, to strategize, to prepare.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we go through the calendar, making sure that they don't give up their lunch, making sure they have time in the morning to prepare because all of these meetings that they're leading, people are taking their temperature as soon as they hop on the Zoom.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in order to show up, yeah, with your best energy, you have to really manage your calendar.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up hiring a performance coach who had worked with the NFL, the 49ers, as an athletic performance coach.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: And now he coaches executives.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: And after my first book, I know you can relate, Lee, I was so worn out after all the 75 podcasts and the speaking tour and the podcast tour, and it was all exhilarating and I just was empty after the end.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I hired this performance coach to help me with my calendar.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: And now I hold my mornings sacred.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't allow anybody to book anything on my mornings so that I can exercise, I can prepare for the day, I know when I'm at my best.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's changed everything.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: I used to think that success was being what everybody else wanted, and that only made me feel empty.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was easily uh before I burnt out in 10 to 12 hours of meetings a day, starting at seven, usually ending at seven, rarely eight, and was back to back.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, like I probably at some point thought that was something to be proud of.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, look at me, look how efficient I am, look how I'm getting it all done, and you know, didn't have a lot of resources in the sense of you know adding people to the team.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, like really working, doing the work after the 12 hours of meetings or on weekends, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I heard someone say, Oh, I strategize on Saturdays, and I was like, Well, it needs to be like a seven-day-a-week type of thing, whether you're strategize in personally or professionally, there should be some strategy to your actions, right?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of what we're doing daily of like, what are your daily goals?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when it comes to your calendar though, I think sometimes we people let it run them, and then they say that they can't make a change or they can't say no.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yes, when your boss sends you an invite, don't decline.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, let's say they send it at a time when you were gonna go to a soccer game and see your, you know, your child play, or you had a a date night uh with your husband or partner, or you're going with your girlfriends to see a new art exhibit or whatever it may be, and they put it in a time that doesn't work.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: The bold thing to do is to say, I am looking forward to meeting, but could we do it at this time or this time?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have something already on my calendar.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's a bold conversation, not always comfortable, I would say.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: So some of the things when we're doing these seismic shifts, do we need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable in some of these situations?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I like how you said it is a bold conversation to have.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I used to think that I couldn't if if a client said, can we move this meeting to 9 a.m.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: on Wednesday?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: I said yes, without even thinking that why don't I say, how about Thursday at two that fits better with my calendar?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would have been in much better shape, right?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, it is a bold move.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to, you know, it's it's a dance you have to play where you have to figure out what are the most important meetings, right?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And do you have to say yes to your boss?
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: What are the times where you can speak up and be bold and say, I really do want to go to my children's soccer game.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a fantastic female leader who's in her 60s.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just saw her talk recently and she said, you know what I'm thrilled about when I see leadership these days and women in leadership is they actually do say, I want to go see my children play soccer, and they will work around it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: She goes, in my day, we had to say we had a doctor's appointment because you couldn't make that bold move.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was not okay to say, I want to be a mom to this afternoon.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was not okay.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, we all need to be bolder to prioritize ourselves first, or else we're really not good to anyone.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and truly looking at your time as an investment, right?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Investment in yourself, investment in others too.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: So when you think of having a meeting, the ROI of the meeting, I used to look around the room and go, wow, this is a really expensive meeting that someone's having, the level of leaders, the people in there.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then sometimes the what we were talking about did it necessitate needing all those individuals, right?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe it didn't necessitate a meeting at all.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've heard of five-minute meetings, and Gary V has, you know, five or ten-minute meetings and he makes it work and it works out.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he also spends more time, I think, talking to people, you know, informally, meaning like meeting people and walking around.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is that something someone should consider?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the best approach for even how they meet when it comes to getting that shift to your calendar in your meetings?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of my leaders are saying, Michelle, almost asking for permission from me.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Michelle, do we have to wear our best suits on Friday and sit in a windowless conference room and listen to PowerPoint presentations where people feel like they have to defend their job and what they're doing?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: I said, What types of meetings do you want to have?
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: And this one particular leader is, could I just have my people come into my office at 9 a.m.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: every morning for 15 minutes and have coffee with me and we can just talk and I could figure out what they're doing.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: They could give me updates.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I can figure out how I can support them.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: I said, beautiful, do it.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: So just like what Gary V is doing, that works for him, right?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I really want to only have these formal meetings or stand-up meetings or telephone call meetings for five or 10 minutes.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: That works because he feels like he has more influence and more impact when he's walking around.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's what we all need to ask ourselves as leaders what works best for us and make the meeting work best for us.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: What holds leaders back from taking the initiative or having the uncomfortable conversation about really reclaiming their time, reclaiming their calendar, and making themselves a priority?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: What gets in the way?
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're scared, I think, of sticking up for themselves because, like I said, the the old ways of work were just all about more, more, more, more, more, and not about quality and not about wellness and not about what's best for you.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is a big shift that is going to take some bold conversations and sticking up for yourself.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I think people are a little bit scared.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's okay.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: And we all have to have to recreate these workplaces that work best for humans.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's why I'm advocating all this: a connection-based mindset, a connection-based environment.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: Gary Ridge is a wonderful example.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: He was the CEO at WD 40 for 25 years.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: He's an Aussie from Australia.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I just realized that that he said I would sit there and try to create connection collision centres in the office, and so that people would spend more time just connecting and less time in meetings.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And he said it's all about connection.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why he said he was so successful for years and was one of the best places to work, right?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: Let's follow Gary Ridge's model and humanize workplaces.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're thinking about this as we close out, about the seven shifts of energy and you know, from perspective to energy and everything in between, when we're thinking about those shifts as a leader, how do we start?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like it just feels maybe for some overwhelming, or how would they, you know, when they pick up this book, which everybody should, they pick up the book, you know, start at the beginning and just start working through it.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: There is no time frame, like you don't have to do one through seven and 60 minutes or six days or one week.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is like be intentional about where you're shifting and understand.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, like when they read this book, what do you want them to walk away with as like, how do I do it?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: How do I start?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think the most important thing is to shift that perspective that if we're gonna have better workplaces that focus more on us as humans, and ultimately then you will achieve your results.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: I believe that connection drives results, connection drives trust, and then trust drives that productivity and innovation, which will drive your financial performance.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we can get there for sure.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the first thing is just to shift that perspective that it has to be a connection-based perspective.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then as you're going through your book, pick one or two things that speak to you.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to reinvent your meetings?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that would get the biggest bang for the buck?
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do you need, you know, if you were to show me your calendar, how would that make you feel?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Would it represent your the right priorities in your life?
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then maybe that's where you should focus on reinventing your calendar so that it's much more about connection.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Are your priorities off?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Are you last on the list and you are feeling awful?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Then maybe that's where you need to lean in and work on your shift in priorities.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think whatever speaks to you.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: But we do, I I give I interview a lot of really amazing leaders and people that give really good examples.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that people can benefit from it.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Start where it makes the most sense and we'll have the biggest return for you.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then it doesn't mean skip the other chapters, but it means spend the time where you need to understand things a bit more because maybe it's just even having the intentional time to think about it.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like one person said, I don't even have time to go to the bathroom.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, that's a problem.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's on you.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a choice, it's a choice, and let's talk about that.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want to be living like that?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that a way that you want to be working and living?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, No.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, so what do you need to start with?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so where do you start?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I love the the seven ways to do this and to shift your perspective and just start.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's a kiss.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, just start because the seismic shift starts with you.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I love that.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone, please pick up the seismic shift in you coming out in December on pre-order now.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: So excited to have it in your hands and for you to be able to read more about it.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you so much, Lee.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: I loved our conversation.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: I knew you would.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: You are just a super cool rock star.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you very much.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking the leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.