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Mishlei 17:22 - The Relationship Between Physical Health and State of Mind · The Mishlei Podcast

• 0:21
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_04: We're back in Manainam Mishle after a long break.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: Tonight's pasak is one of those ones where the challenge is to get past whatever the obvious ideas are.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: If there are obvious ideas.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm confident that we usually do that.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_04: Mishle 1722.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_04: So a couple of uh uh unfamiliar words here.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um anyone want to take a stab?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_08: Lamb is heart.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_04: So a joy?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_04: So a happy heart.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um and um yeah, happy heart or mind.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeetiv geha.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: So yetiv comes from the word tow.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_04: It's the uh it's the verb for that.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I think the word improve is probably the smoothest English word.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_04: There might be some subtle nuances uh of different ways you can translate it, but improves.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_04: All right, so geha is the first word that is gonna be um uh tricky here.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_04: So geha.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um so the BDB dictionary says healing or cure.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um healing or cure.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but we're gonna see a couple other translations for that.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_04: Veruach nahe and or but a um, so stricken spirit.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_04: I for some reason think it is a crushed spirit, but I guess uh we'll we'll see if anyone says anything else.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: But a stricken spirit, y to yabesh garem.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: How would you translate that?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_06: Toyabesh.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: Anyone dry out?
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_04: Uh dries out a so garem is another term that has two meanings, at least two meanings.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_04: One is bone, that's the um literal meaning.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, or we'll see another meaning.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, anyone know the other meaning?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, actually, it says here self.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, or uh I can say strength or self.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_04: So let's look at our minimalist commentators and translators here.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, okay, so Matsuda Sion says, Geha kumo ki geha, the taxar kaf hashimush.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_04: So he translates it as um improves uh like a cure.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, not improves a cure, but improves like a cure.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_04: So he says it's as if the word like is there.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I'll uh I'll put this in brackets if that makes sense.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_04: Improves so it's either improves a geha or improves like a geha.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_04: And then he says, N'chaya is shivura, broken.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, that's where I got it from.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_04: So a stricken or broken spirit.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then garem is etem, is a bone.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_04: So that is the Matustion.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the Sadugon says, I don't obviously don't know the Judah Arabic, but he says, Geha is Mare or Hapanim, is the the um the light of uh or the the light or the cheerfulness, cheerfulness of a person's countenance.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and he's getting that from a different pasuk.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_04: And actually, I don't know which pasuk he's getting it from, uh, but you have here the um the uh Naveshalam, that's Amram Korach, who uh uh says it's the same uh root as Noga, which means light.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: And then the one I found that traces to a pasuk is the the commentary ascribed to the Radak who says Geha is ziv or it's radiance or light, min loya giah or it's light will not dim.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so I'm not sure whether to treat this as two or one, but I guess healing or cure is is one here, or light slash radiance, okay, or um the the cheerfulness of a person's face, okay, which is another in in in English we don't really use this so much, but in actually no, we do.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: We say your face lights up, right?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_04: To mean that you're happy.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_04: So it it if if it's the light of the face, then it it would mean like cheerfulness or happiness, uh, but like outward happiness.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_04: And then uh the rest of the Pasagi translates normally.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and then the Targum says Libha Khadya Mashpir Gufa.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: A happy heart improves or makes beautiful, like Shufra, um, beautifies uh the body.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, gufa is a body.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I don't know if that's a translation of Geha or if he had a different word there.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_04: Verucha Ruchihta andor but a uh a soft spirit, literally.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Myabsha Garma dries out a bone.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: So uh oh, let me just do this here.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_04: Geha equals uh uh light of the countenance.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: Countenance.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so let me copy and paste this into the chat.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, by the way, I do not have my um my second monitor today.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_04: So if you post something in the chat, I may not see it.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_04: And uh if you post it and I don't respond to it, that does not mean I'm ignoring it.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_04: It means that I didn't see it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_04: So just feel free to use your words, uh your verbal words.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um okay, so there's that, and then let's put this into the chat also, and then we'll move this and then ask the questions.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh no, sorry.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_04: What am I saying?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: We have the um the English translations here.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_04: So they all take the same route pretty much.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_04: Art scroll says a glad heart is as beneficial as a cure.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_04: So that's like the Mesudas David, but a broken spirit will desiccate the bone, okay, dry out the bone.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_04: Refer says a merry heart keeps the spirit up, uh, but a depressed spirit desiccates the limbs.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_04: Interesting, he says limbs.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_04: Altar says a joyful heart can effect a cure, um, but a lamed spirit uh dries up the bones.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_04: And then our YouTube friend Peskin says a happy heart improves healing, but a stricken spirit dries out the bones.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think these are sufficiently different uh um for us to like, you know, uh keep them front and center.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm just gonna put post them in the chat and let's get going with the questions here.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um okay, what are the questions?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, Avital or Yitzi, I can't tell.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yitsi here.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um for the first part of the pasik, especially for those who say gea's like uh radiant face, it almost seems like the first part of the pasik saying is being happy makes you happy.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right, right.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: Or at least makes you look happy, right?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, so if geha means uh you know the radiance of one's countenance, uh sorry.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh then what's the kidish?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_04: What is the the novel insight?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it would seem to be saying uh a happy heart makes a happy face, which is obvious.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I mean, I suppose there could be someone who doesn't show their happiness, but like I don't know, it seems pretty obvious.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Isaiah?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, assuming Geha means like healing or cure.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So healing or or cure of what?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, means healing or cure uh then uh of what?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_04: Seth.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_07: I would say what is the qualitative difference between the action that the Laive is doing versus what the Ruach is doing?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_07: What's the difference between those two forces?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so what is the difference between the action or effect uh of the heart and uh and the action or effect of the spirit?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I guess just to flesh it out no pun intended here a little bit more, is like, is this a pure opposite, like i.e.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_04: doing you know exactly the same kind of thing, but uh in opposite directions, um or uh are they they different?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: And if the latter, um, how are they related?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_04: Because obviously they can't be they can't be so different that they shouldn't be in the same class of.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_04: So what the the way you asked it was good though.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_04: What's the difference?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, uh Rufki.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so two things.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, one is on that, are we able to insert like each into the other?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So like can leave included in the ruach, and is ruach included.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_04: Right, okay, so I think we need to ask a series of definition questions here, uh, which is what does heart uh or what does lave uh mean in this context?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so heart, mind, or something else, and then what does uh ruach uh spirit mean in this context?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then are uh are the are live sorry, are lave and ruach um interchangeable in this context or not?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: And then if not, uh what is their relationship?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_04: And um and I think the what is their relationship with each other is different than Seth's question because I think we need to well, we can look at each one independently.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: What is the difference, and then what difference does it make?
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Avi Tal or Yitzi.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, two questions.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Firstly, uh building on number four, uh defining Samaya Khan, when people say or like depressed words like that, it can mean a lot of different things.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so just gonna actually add on to each one, even though that could be a different question.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_04: So, what is happy in this context?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and then what is broken uh in this context?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the other question is um, how does a ruach nichaya accomplish the tyabhishkaram?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning how does the depressed spirit cause a person to have bones dried out?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe involved in that as what is that like are we talking about literally bones drying out?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_04: Uh okay.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: So um you could arguably put that under uh part of question six or or the heading of question six, but we'll we'll ask it as a separate question anyway, which is what what are the cause and effect mechanisms in each half, right?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: How does the heart uh you know uh improve like a uh a geha, whatever that means, and how does the broken spirit dry a bone?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Ruki?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, also I mean a classic question about like what's the context slash scenario, and if it's are they both in the same one, or is this talking about like different scenarios?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so what is the decision-making scenario?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and um uh are these the same scenario?
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: Uh uh uh yeah, right.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: In other words, or is it talking about two different kinds of people, for example?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Isaiah Yeah, within each half is the dispos the person who has a certain disposition, is it the same person as a person?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: I miss that.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, right, right.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, that's a very good question here.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_04: So um within each half, um is the uh effect or are the cause and effect happening within the same person, uh, and effect happening within the same person.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_04: So for example, um, for example, can my uh happy heart improve your geha uh or my um broken spirit dry your bone?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Stephanie?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_10: Um, what's the practical implic application of this Pasuk?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_10: Because we know being happy is good.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_10: So when people are like, oh, just be happy, like that's not helpful.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_04: We know I'm gonna go ahead and extend that to all the qualities.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_04: The no, we know that being happy and being healthy, if GM means health, are good, and that being depressed and dry boned is uh boned is bad.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I I do want to step in and just say something about a dry bone.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, one question here is um uh uh let me put this up here, which is what does dry bone uh mean?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: So um my understanding walking into this possible, and I also just checked out some stuff earlier, is dry bones were uh what they believed was associated with lack of health, okay, which is why the geha as cure makes sense.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I can think of two reasons why they would think that dry bones are associated with lack of health, and like moist bones um would be associated with health.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone want to just say you could just say and well I thought dry bones like would be creepier and move less well and it'd be slow down and achy if your bones are dry?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I uh that's that's a that's a creative one, yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: By the way, so let me actually let me clarify even more.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: So what part of the bone is dry?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_08: The bone is not dry.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_08: If it's inside the body, it's right.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_04: So what part of the bone what did they think was uh was uh was dry or or can be dry?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_04: And you've got to think where they're getting this information from because they they're not doing dissections.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_07: From death.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so one thing is death, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: Is that when when something dies, its bones are still wet, and when it's really dead, when it's been dead for a long time, it's dried out, when it has like no life in it whatsoever.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: And there's also, I think there is an association in many, many different organisms that the dead version of the thing is a dried-out husk, you know, where when whereas when it's alive, it's it's got moisture in it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_04: So that's like one, you know, just sensory thing.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the other one, anyone want to guess the other realm that they got it from that moist bones are good?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_04: And it you have to think about where the moisture is.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_04: In the marrow?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, in the marrow, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_04: So marrow, bone marrow for in a culinary uh sense was considered to be very nutritious and healthy and delicious.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and if you had a bone with a lot of marrow, then like that is a good thing.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_04: And if you have a bone that is uh does not have a lot of marrow, then it's like a an emaciated bone, you know?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_04: So you could think to yourself, I'm not saying that that's the exclusive way to interpret dry bone here, but I think the puzzle is assuming that when you hear dry bones, you're going to be thinking of death and lack of health and moist bones, not on the outside of the bone, but the inside of the bone, uh, is uh is associated with uh with with healthiness health.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh next question, Seth.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_07: Just I guess extending on what Stephanie was saying, is this medical advice?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, okay.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_04: Is this um uh and if this is medical advice, uh what is it doing in Mishlay, right?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: Shlomo, according to legend, Shlomo wrote another book of cures.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_04: Not not for not not uh not in Mishlei.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: You know, and if you're once you're opening the doors to medicine, there's a lot of stuff you can include.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah, Stephanie.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_10: Who's the intended audience for this?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_04: Which may be related to Isaiah's question about whether this is self-contained or whether this is talking about how you affect other people or they affect you.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_04: So who is the intended audience?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna ask a question, which I don't think it's a bad question.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_04: I just don't think it much is gonna come of it.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: But one of my uh talented Michelade learning students at Nietzsche this morning uh wanted to take it this way, and so we explored it, uh, which is um where's the relationship between the two halves?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um let's put it here.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, no, let's put it, let's put it over here at the end.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um do we read the VOV in the middle of the Pusuk as but or and?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so one of my students, actually several of them, wanted to read it as a happy mind improves like a geha, and a stricken bone dries out a garim.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_04: I won't say what they why they wanted to do it, because I don't want to prejudice you, but but I thought it was pretty clear that this is a but pasuk because the first half is good and the second half is bad.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_04: But um, you know, we know that initially and can uh the vo could be an and or but.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, are we missing any questions here?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yet have I feel like we got the main questions.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: Let me copy and paste them into the chat, and then we will have a thinking minute.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_04: And if anyone comes up with more questions in the interim, then we'll add them.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_04: All right, let's see if I can get all these in one.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_04: And if so, then yes.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I'll do that, and nine and ten, and eleven, and twelve, and thirteen.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so let us take, and let me post this into the chat in case anyone came late.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, let's take our full thinking minute.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_04: And if you have another question, you could just interrupt.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna interrupt.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_04: There's another question, uh, which is um, is this connected with the previous PUSIC of Sukim or the the PUSIC after?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_04: So let's just, it's been a while, so let's just review here.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I want to make this on the line.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_04: Oh man, that's messy.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_04: All right, whatever.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, okay, we are on seven uh twenty.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_04: No, this is twenty-five, wrong place.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_04: We want 17, 22 is us.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so the sukim we had before this were uh Adam Hasar Lev to kea Kaf Oriv a Kaf Oriv Aruba Livne Rehu, a friend, uh no, a uh uh man void of understanding uh shakes hands um and uh becomes a guarantor for his before his friend.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_04: Uh oh pesha ohhev matzah magbia pesko mafakesh shavir, one who loves um wrongdoing, loves strife, uh uh one who raises his entrance or his mouth uh seeks breaking.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_04: Ikesh Lave Loyim Tato, a person with a crooked heart or perverted heart will not find good.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_04: The nepak vilashono Yipal Barah, and one who is reversed in his speech will fall into evil or harm.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yolik, next one's Yolik Sil Latugala, one who uh begets a fool will it'll he'll be a depression for him.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Velo Yismach Abhinaval and the father of a scoundrel will not rejoice.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then our pasuk, and then the next pasuk is about bribes, it looks like.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so does anyone uh oh well let me just do that here.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: So is this connected with the surrounding Psukim?
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh anyone have any more questions, or are we still?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know if this is the best question for understanding this possible, but like would the opposite be also true?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like if let's say you had dried bones, would it would it um the breaker spirit?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if you you know if you had uh oh what's it called?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um geha, would that give you a late's mech?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Does that does it matter if you okay that that's a fair question?
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um so is the uh is the cause and effect relationship in the other direction as well?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, actually, I'll tell you why I like this question, because let me put this uh here.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um does a good geha um uh make a happy lave?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_04: And does a dry bone make a broken spirit?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_04: And then the other question also is like, is this a symbiotic relationship, right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, you know, like that they they both improve uh affect each other.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um Rick, you have another question, or do you have a yeah?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just a quick question.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, are we automatically assuming this is two people, or we can say it's potentially no okay.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_04: No, I I did not even think that it was two people until uh until just now.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_04: I I uh yeah, yeah.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Ariel, do you have a question or do you have an idea?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: I think I have an idea.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, we'll take our thinking minute, yeah.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_04: And then Ariel will be first.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_06: Thinking minute.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_06: Okay, earlier.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um it's interesting because I I want to start with the relationship of the two halves first.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I don't I don't think they're I don't think they're opposites.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um and and I think that your student at NISHA was pro was onto something when he's when he was using the word and.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: At the same time, you could also read it as a but, and and I'll show and I'll show you how they're they may both be true.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think that I'm reading this as I think I think I think there are like two different stages here with um with with how the person views themselves or or what's what's or you know, if there's an internal issue, you know, or or not.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think there are layers to you, the human psychology, and I think I think one's more of a deeper layer than than than the other.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think the second half of the puzzle is more of like a deeper psychological internal issue um that the that the individual has to you know solve.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: The first one, it's almost like it's like a it's like a it's like a medicine, it's like a healing process for for what you're for what you're going through, but it's not gonna solve that deeper issue.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_04: All right, that that's a good approach.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, okay, get go on, yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh uh No, yeah, I don't want to cut you off.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: So so if you look at it from that perspective, it could be an and.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: And here's where the butt comes in.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: The butt could come in in how the individual um looks at it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, like, like the person himself can look at it.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: He may think that, oh, the first possible, it okay, it's not it uh if I solve that, then then the second half of the post sec will be solved.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: But it's not true.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: It it's it's more of like the the uh it's more of like it it needs its own um, you know, I guess surgery to solve the issue.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh intervention probably is the word you're looking for.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right, right.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so the so the it's actually that's different than the approach that my student needs took, but it is very similar to the Malbin.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I'm gonna read it just so we can like get what we want from it and not necessarily figure him out unless you think it's it's it's the same idea.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um I had I used uh claudic translations, I haven't checked it over yet.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_04: Umala, we've already explained above.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Bamash Khosov uh lave sameach yetiv panim.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uv a oh, that's interesting.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: Forgot about this possible.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: Uvatzvos lave ruach nachea.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_04: So a happy heart improves the countenance, which might be why some uh Mufarshim translate ours as countenance, and the sadness of the heart, and in the sadness of the heart is a broken spirit.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: Sheesh lave sameah for ruachnachea.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_04: So he says, and there is a happy heart and a broken spirit.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_04: Shallave the chit son yuso same uvahatzlacha.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_04: The heart outwardly is happy in the goodness of this world and in success.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_04: Aval ruho hapnini, but his internal spirit, nacheah, uh, is is uh broken.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: So pausing there, that's what you're saying, right?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_04: That the second half is like a deeper issue, and the first half is more uh exploding.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's actually exactly what I was talking about.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, good, good.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: Good intuition then.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: Vitov Yosur Atsva.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_04: Now then he says the implication, and this is relating to the butt part of what you're saying.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: Vitovyoser at shalo yih ruch nochea.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_04: It's better to have outward sadness, meaning in terms of like, let's say, like things are not going well in terms of your business or whatever, uh, but inside is uh you don't have a crushed spirit.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: The Al Pise Amar Hasameah, Halev Hasameah, Rak Yeti Geha, that it's saying a happy heart adds in the word only improves geha, ratsalumar gava, meaning the body, hachitonis, which is your external self.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: That's what the other Pasak said is that a happy heart improves your face, meaning the outward part.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: But the um the uh crushed broken spirit will dry out the etzem, which by the way, I forgot to mention this.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_04: The in Hebrew the word atzmo means self and bone, and the word that's why the word garim can mean self and bone.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_04: The ikerhatum and the essence of a man or the main part of a man is in his inner inward life.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I think that is what you're saying, Ariel, right?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like I think it's uh really good.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so let me just type this out then.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so uh this is the Malbin.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_04: Nice.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it is, I'd rather do it in my own words, it is and your words, it is an and, not a but.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so the heart, happy heart refers to a person's outward.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, I'm gonna just write Malbin here also because so I don't forget that this was also the Malbin.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, an outward um sense of happiness.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh, you know, let's say like uh enjoying the goods of this world and success, etc.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but the the spirit uh refers to their inner uh you know fundamental self.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_04: And what this is saying is A, you can have both, meaning be outwardly uh happy and successful, and inwardly uh um despirited.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_04: That's a word, right?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, dispirited, okay.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_04: And then B is the practical application that Ariel was saying, which is that that don't think that making your heart happier, sorry, heart uh happier will uh will cure your internal uh disease of uh uh or dryness of spirit or dryness of of self, you know, uh and alleviate your spirit.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: You need to work on your mental uh health uh in order to change that.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm gonna make a book recommendation.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_04: This is not the book that I've been recommending to everyone, okay, uh, which uh you'll probably hear more about in some form.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_04: But this is a book that I just started reading that uh seems very promising.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um five kinds of wealth.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh five types of wealth by Sahil Bloom.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_04: So basically, this is a guy who um I think he was making like a hundred grand a year when he was like 22 or something like that.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_04: And he basically like was uh, you know, this is a very Kohalas book in the sense that he was aiming for, he was measuring his success by his money.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_04: And he did this for years and then realized that he wasn't happy.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_04: So he um he came up with a new metric for success, which he uh terms, which he has um uh time wealth, social wealth, mental wealth, physical wealth, and financial wealth.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_04: And the book is very organized and it goes through each of the sections and he draws upon wisdom of the ancients, modern psychological studies, um, and um advice from old people, uh, and then like writes out this whole uh plan for how to improve in all areas of wealth.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_04: But I think that problem that he experienced with what Arya was saying, especially in Malvin's terms, is that this guy had a ton of financial wealth, but his mental health well, wealth and his social wealth were like nothing.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: And therefore, internally he was like uh depressed.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_04: And again, very coherent.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, uh Rivke.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, can I add to this idea?
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think my idea, like what I wrote is very similar.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_02: I think like the only difference is kind of what I was focusing on, which is that I think like I was really framing this as like a pusuk about like what is like real simcha.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um obviously, like I'm biased, you know.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think like semachalko, obviously, right, is like the ideal um form of simcha.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that this is not speaking about that, meaning it is, but the pusuk isn't saying that.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: That person has it.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm taking this as one person and I'm saying that this person doesn't, hasn't unlocked, not that they can't, but they haven't unlocked that semachwa chalko.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: So when they're happy, like, you know, things are just cruising and they're going well, then like fine, great, right?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like they have like that surface level happiness.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think like ruach, like similar to what Ariel and like the mobile were saying, like what I was thinking of was like, you know, Sha'ol and like the Ruach Ra, right?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like it I know it's like different because it was Hashem, but it obviously, you know, shows us there's something deeper going on.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think that when you don't have the coping mechanisms in place, I think it's really like simcha, like real simcha, and coping mechanisms.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: And when you don't have those things, when you don't have sim and you also don't have coping mechanisms, then when something bad happens, when you get challenged, then you're gonna end up losing yourself a little.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_04: Ah, okay.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and uh so A, it's not going to bring you the type of happiness uh you're really looking for.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and B, when the going gets rough, everything will fall apart.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so it's interesting.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_04: I see why this is you're relating this to Ariel's idea.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_04: I did see another approach that was um uh that did talk about Semeh Bachalko, um, which is the Moshe Kimchi, uh, who we know you do, that's the Radox brother.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_04: Lave geha chasserkafatamu marpe.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_04: So he also says it means it is like a happy heart is like a healing, um, is like a cure.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_04: The heart that is so he takes the first half as being the right kind of happiness, whereas you were taking both to be the wrong, but this might work out better for you.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the heart that is happy with its can in with its portion, yeti vaguf kegeha, will benefit the body like a cure.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_04: Ba'avur sh a tolada to the same, because um uh claw translated as it is in its nature to bring joy.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if that is what tolada means.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know most chimically well enough to know this, but tolada they used.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_04: Give me one second.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_04: It might it might be that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: In other words, that if you're content with what you have, then it will actually make have a physical effect.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, well, let's leave that for a second.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_04: Bahavero lo yikhemikem uh mazor, okay.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_04: Shitamo lo yerpe mikem negar.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_04: That's just translating it.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_04: Umishkalu geha.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_04: All right, fine.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_04: About ruchna, the koessis alhavleha olam.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_04: But if you are have a broken spirit and you're angry about the vanities of the world, okay, uh, I assume you made your eyes big because of Kohalas.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh he tiabish hagaram that will dry out the bone to ikera goof, which is the the main part of the body, like the body's mainframe.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm I'm just gonna I I don't want to say that this is definitely your idea, but I think it's like I think your idea is like the bridge between the the the uh Ramosha Kimchi and the and Ariel.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_04: So Ramosha Kimchi says Kimchi says the first half is about someone who is truly uh content with their portion, and then that person will have the added benefit, um, added benefit of improving their physical health.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, physical health or well-being, whatever you want to say.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um and uh second half is talking about a person who is not content with what they have, and uh according to Koelis, uh, which I'm just inserting here, uh therefore will be uh upset uh at the um the you know temporalities uh or futilities of the world.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_04: And not only will that be emotionally uh unpleasant, but it will also uh have an adverse effect on uh on his physical health.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, okay, that's good.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um okay, I think that's good for for this.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, let's go to uh Isaiah.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to say like um maybe like a more straightforward idea.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: A person who and then I also have a second like addition to that idea.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um a person who is like um in a good mental state, so maya, um, I think that they're more encouraged they'll have more motivation to like take good care of their physical body.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so therefore um they're it's going to be, you know, that that aspect of how they are is going to help cure anything that happens to them.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um and a person who is in a more um like downtrodden state uh they'll be less motivated to take care of themselves and that'll you know cause them to become more hurt, it'll it'll actually damage their body because they're in that state.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think tomorrow tomorrow was saying also like uh like psychologically, like you know, if you're hormones are bad for your health.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like if you stress hormone stress hormone stress hormones can be bad for your health, like like if you're in a low state actually does itself physically take a toll on your body and hurt you.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I think there's the opposite's also true.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, it also wears out your physical body.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, okay, that's good.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's a that is a good clean shot.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh I want to just add one more practical implication, not necessarily a separate application here, but like practical advice here.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh is actually the question is uh what is the hava amina, right?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_04: Which is the question we didn't list, uh meaning what would we have thought without this Pasuk?
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I think you the the most direct Hava Amina is that um is that uh improving your mental health um does not result in any improvement in your physical health.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um there they're they're just they're they're two different uh uh realms of health, right?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um and this is saying, no, there is actually a uh correlation.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_04: And actually I do think it goes both ways, meaning that people who are physically healthier seems to be like that they have a uh they're more prone to having a better mood as well.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a virtuous cycle.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_04: But I think another problem is like um is give me one second is thinking that the best way to work on your physical health is directly, okay.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: But like um I forgot to say this teaches us that that's not true, and there's a symbiotic uh relationship.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but then same thing here.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: Thinking that the best way to work on your physical health is directly, but sometimes um you should invest in working on your mental health, uh, mental health, uh, and that itself is investing in your physical health.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, right.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_04: So for example, um, let's the example I'm thinking of here is imagine someone who is very like old and sad and like doesn't go out and doesn't have friends and they're just like you know withdrawn.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_04: So someone might tell them, like, oh, you need to go exercise, you know, but like why is he gonna go exercise?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like he can't motivate himself to do that.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: But if someone instead said, you need to go out with your friends more, and he makes an appointment to go out, you know, one one day a week with his poker buddies or whatever, um, that itself might make him happier, which might make him take care of better care of his physical health, you know, or like, you know, whatever.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_04: So like I I think I think there is a diet, uh not diet.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, yeah.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_04: So answer number one is uh is I guess um uh diagnostic.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, whatever.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not gonna make these into two things.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_04: But in other words, one thing is just thinking these are two separate realms.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: The other is how to go about affecting the like bringing about the better results.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_04: Like in other words, even if you have this idea that there's mental health and there's physical health, you might not get the idea that I should start by working on my mental health and then things will follow.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_04: That's good.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Isaiah, did you have another uh idea?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was thinking about like it says a lay of some have improved you could read that improves uh geeha.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe like that would mean that like a person who is in a positive mental state, when they experience a cure, the experience of being cured is improved, is like like it's not the full experience of having a cure unless you're in a positive mental state during or like because of that cure.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like like being cured, you're only really like getting the true benefit of that if it comes along with like a positivity to it.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're cured from a disease or if you're if you had a wound and it was healed, but you were like depressed like during that process, I think that you would be like missing something about being cured.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like like it's like it should be it's the whole experience is improved by a positive attitude.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the and I think the opposite's true also, like if you're if you're downtrodden um or depressed, and like you are maybe having a wound that is maybe actually healing, but you're like feeling low about it, then I think you're like missing something of what's happening.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_00: And like like you're being healed, but you might as well like not be being healed because you're not experiencing being healed.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, then uh then that won't compound.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's an interesting thing also.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like if I knew if someone could jump in if they have a good example of this, but I feel like there are cases in medical interventions where um you know too much emphasis is, I mean, it is similar to your other idea, but but too much emphasis is put on like just making the physical problem go away, either at the neglect or at the expense of the happiness of the person.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_04: And that itself makes it so that the cure doesn't really work or doesn't really like reach its full effect.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, whereas like I'll give you an example.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: And this is uh I didn't want to go to this example because like um uh it it it I think of it in in terminal cases, but I'll use the example anyway.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like there are cases where like people are so oh no, I read a book about this.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's where I'm getting it from.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, what's the nickel and dimed author?
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_04: Nickel and dimed uh Barbara Ehrenreich.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_04: Barbara Aaron Reich.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: Natural Causes, an epidemic of wellness and the certainty of dying and killing ourselves to live longer.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_04: So part of this book, or a big part of this book, was how, like, you know, obviously it's good that we have better knowledge of the body and better health technologies now.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_04: But she says that there is a uh diminishing returns where people in certain cases are so intent on prolonging their life by a, let's say, like a couple years, that they're willing to subject themselves to all sorts of medical interventions or being in a hospital or like like what whatever, like doing a bunch of stuff that in time extends their life but does not make them happy.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_04: And that itself could be bad for your health, you know, or you could just say what Isaiah said, which is it's just not gonna get the full effect.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_04: But like, in other words, I think the mistake could be focusing on the the physical cure being the main thing when really again, it's like a counterpart to your other idea, but working on the mental aspect of it is gonna be better in the long run.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_08: Well, that's you know, with chemotherapy.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's an example.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_08: That's a that's an example, yeah.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_04: In other words, like there are people for whom chemotherapy would just make things so miserable, right?
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_04: That like or or or reduce the quality of their life or like give them other problems, even if it gets rid of the cancer.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_04: Is that what you're saying?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah, well, you it buy it may buy you a couple months or even a couple weeks.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_08: Right if you're sick.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_08: I mean, we what you're giving chemotherapy patients, you're giving them poison, just hoping that the cancer get poisoned uh sooner than the uh healthy cells.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, that's a good example.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_04: That's a good example.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, good.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: All right, both idea, good ideas, Isaiah.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think that uh they are related, um, even though they're not the same idea.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um okay, Seth.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, so I want to come back to the Ruach and the Lev.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_07: Um so I think I had mentioned a previous lecture that Lev is the seat of where the mind is and where Planning and decision making comes in.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_07: And to contrast that with Ruach is more of an emotional state.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_07: So I look at Ruach as being someone who's buffeted by by winds coming from any different directions, not in control, and being subjected to their emotional state and being out of control just destroys them internally.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_07: But if they take the other way of approaching whatever it is that they're dealing with and use their lave and their mind to focus themselves and to plan and use their wisdom, they're able to find cure for whether it be their body or the geha being their body or what have you.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, good.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: So someone who resorts to ruh strategies to deal with uh with things will end up losing and uh respond to despair.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and uh uh and and will be will end up in a state of despair because there are so many things you can't control and that will end up harming yourself.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_04: I think self is better here, right?
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but uh but if you make recourse uh to strategies of the mind um to deal with your problems, uh with the problems in life, uh then you can uh actually actually solve them.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I think cure also works better here, like a like a cure, or you could say uh it will make your face light up, but I think that's a weaker uh interpretation.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think that might also be a connection to how far away was it?
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the Chassar lathe.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_04: Oh no, that was that was not that was in interpersonal uh connections.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they're all dealing with emotions, but that's not what you meant.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, all right, good.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_04: Right, that's that's a good uh another good clean shot here.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, uh Abitala or Yutzi.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Something that came up when I was thinking about this is that within like the world of poetry and art, sometimes it can be viewed as like uh good or as social currency almost to be somebody who's more morose, someone who's more cynical, um, and that sort of thing.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe what the PUSIC is telling us is, and like a person can think that if I live in that way, the social cachet or um, you know, the feeling that I get from that can end up being a path um towards being happy.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: And what maybe what this PUSIC is telling us is that no, really it's the leave Samaef that ends up having that um that result.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: And someone who is takes a more negative cynical view of reality in the long run will end up uh like drying out, or they'll they'll end up in the long run being more sad.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, yeah.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that the long-term effects are not worth it, and the the the the the more fruitful path uh is uh is a happy heart.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: The example of this that I think of is I remember this in Shall Hevitt in my uh uh third year, third or fourth year, there was a student who was a straight A student, and um, you know, I I think I was already teaching study skills, my study skills class at the time, and we were talking about stress management.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_04: And like this girl must have said something, or maybe I just sensed in her um like the way that she was behaving while I was giving this thing on stress management, that like she just wasn't having any of it.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I asked her, I think, afterwards, like, you know, like, did you find any of this useful?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_04: And she's like, she said, no, you know, I need to get stressed out in order to do well.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_04: And she was convinced that the only way that you could get good grades is if she free, and we're not like freaking herself out, like the type of Rifki will remember this, the if I if I get a bad grade, then the world's gonna end, you know.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_04: She thought she needed that in order to um to succeed.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_04: And what I wanted to show her is like maybe that's how you have been doing it, but that can't be good long run, like long term, you know?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that would be another, I think another example with Yitzi saying is that, you know, in the R world, that's one example we're seeing as good.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_04: But this could be another one.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_04: I think another example is in the world of uh of like CEOs or like high power leaders, there might be a certain intense, like, you know, putting in a ton of hours type of intensity or like extreme type like uh thing where in politics, I think that's another thing where you like being in a certain mode um of ruach, you know, is seen as giving you a competitive edge, but like really it's just gonna wear away at your at your health, and that's not gonna be good.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: Would you think there's a difference between good stress and bad stress?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm of the opinion that unless you define stress extremely broadly, then I don't think I think that you it is that bad stress is better than uh sorry, uh good stress is better than bad stress, but the ideal would be where you could do what you would need to do without needing to motivate yourself with stress, you know?
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: I guess let's say you have like a dumb, like you're giving us bar tour a Friday night.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_03: And like you're on a time crunch.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I'm I'm viewing that as like a good stress because like coming up with an idea, you know, forces you to get to learn more and get an idea by that specific time.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I don't think speaking as someone whose life revolves around deadlines of of Torah, um, then um I definitely have experienced that, but I think that ultimately it's better when the deadline just serves as an as an impetus for planning, and I'm able to do it without the stress.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like, like, you know, again, Bitti Evid, if the only way you're gonna get done is with stress, then fine, then it's better to get it done than not get it done.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_04: But I think you can get to a point where you don't need that, you don't need to rely on it.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's like a crutch, you know.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and I think it's a crutch that that is a dispensable one, like like all good crutches, uh, training wheels, maybe.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: I comment on that also.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think like for I totally again very much forever.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I agree, like I don't I don't think that it's the the stress that is that's the positive.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's more that you're given the opportunity, but the opportunity is neutral.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's about how you go about it that makes it like positive and you're saying the Torah and no stress as opposed to stress and Torah.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right, right.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there is a Calvin and Hobbes comic that would beg to differ, which is uh, and I always wonder about this one, Calvin and Hobbes.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if it's different, we have to go by Calvin and Hobbes.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_04: I am not a robot.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on, let's see if this works.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah, so for those who can't see, um Hobbs says, uh Calvin's playing in the sandbox, and Hobbs says, Do you have an idea for your project yet?
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_04: And he says, No, I'm waiting for inspiration.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_04: You can't just turn on creativity like a faucet.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_04: You have to be in the right mood.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_04: And then Hobb says, What mood is that?
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_04: And Calvin says, last minute panic, you know?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I again I think I think that's like like what some that is how some people function.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_04: I just don't what I would advise Calvin is like, if you think you need that and there's no other ways to do that, I think you're wrong.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_04: I think that there are ways to um change your creativity habits in order to um be able to summon up the the best example I remember, and I I have not succeeded in finding this.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_04: When I was young, I I'm almost certain I read something by the composer Philip Glass, who had a rule that he had his his blocked out music composition time, let's say, I don't know what it was, let's say like like you know, 12 to five, and he would not let himself compose a minute earlier than that or a minute later than that.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like, in other words, if the best ideas came to him like before that, he would not do it.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_04: And if he's in the middle of something, then he would, he would, he would stop at five.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_04: And his reasoning, the line that I really liked was you have to tame the muse, you know, like make the muse work on your terms.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_04: Don't just don't get into a pattern where you're just waiting for the muse to strike because then you can get into these endless things where you just are waiting and waiting and waiting.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_04: So that whether or not you hold that that's correct, that's the kind of thing I mean, is that there are ways to set up good work habits where you get the even in the creative world where you need creativity.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_04: Again, I that's part of my success at being prolific the way that I am, is that I know how to set up my week in a way where, you know, I am, you know, brewing ideas with Isaiah on Chavez and then like collecting sources on Sunday and then like trying to work out, you know, like I have my routines, you know, for for how to like summon the creativity.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: And it doesn't always work, but no, no, no technique always works.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_04: Even the last minute people, the last minute panic people, what happens is they'll put out, they'll often put out a very bad product or they'll miss the deadline, you know.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_04: So like uh every no strategy is is is uh you know works all the time, but I I don't think you need the uh this to to thrive.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Isaiah?
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_09: Hi, it's Mark.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_09: Can I say something about this?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_09: Um one thing is something that I realized that might it probably sound obvious to you, but maybe to people who think that they need stress.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, is that I I think that I had the I've I like you can have the experience that you work well under while stressed.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, but what's happening I think is that the stress is like a is like a like a third party, like you were calling it a crutch, that's producing a sec like a secondary thing, which is like high focus or like investing a lot of energy into the thing you're working on.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_09: And that second thing is the thing you want.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_09: Like the stress is just a way that you're getting there, which is not the only way to get there.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_09: Right.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_09: And I also was just I wanted to agree and just say that I also um about with you when you were talking about your work schedule that I definitely had this one.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_09: I was working on my thesis for my PhD, which is just you go for a very long time without coming up with anything new.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_09: But like it's just you just have to do it every day, even though it's really annoying, you know.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_09: And then the then that's how you can have the good days, you know.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_09: Yeah, a lot of things are not possible to to cram in that way.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_04: I I again I gotta I I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but just as an example of this, I mean, you don't know how many people I talked to who were like, I wish I could write.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like I, you know, like like you know, just like I just don't, you know, I I you know what?
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_04: I write, I write an average of six or seven articles a week.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: You know, I write my What I'm Thinking About This Morning post every day, which is an article, and I write a uh a full Substack post, sometimes two.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_04: And you gotta make a habit of just doing it.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, it doesn't mean you have to do it every day, but like fine, send yourself an article a week and then just do it, you know?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and then you you become better at like at doing it when you need to do it.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_04: I also want to go back and say regarding your first point, that about how it's not experiencing the thing, but it's like the I'll give you an example.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_04: There was a time when I was freaking out about some sort of last minute thing and thinking that I wasn't gonna do it.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_04: And my best friend said to me, um uh, look at take a look at your track record.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_04: Have you ever missed a deadline on something like this?
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, no.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_04: And do you always pull through and do really good work?
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_04: So he said, so what are you worried about?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you're gonna do that this time also.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_04: And that shifted things.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_04: And I tell myself that so many times of like, like when I'm worried about not being able to come up with the with stuff for class or whatever, I'm like, how many times have I actually like failed in the deadline?
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_04: And I when I realized that, I was like, oh, so I can just have the deadline and use it, have that be an impetus for doing stuff and just not be stressed out about it.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like it still is there motivating me to do it.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_04: Now, again, I realize that's my problem.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: Other people have the problem of not being able to meet the deadlines.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_04: That that's why you need uh you know other techniques, but there's techniques for everyone.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's why I give a study skills class in high school.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, uh, Avi Talari.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I like the I like this idea, but I think I had in mind like a corollary to it.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, when somebody in in feeling um like somebody can take a certain sense of satisfaction in viewing the world in a cynical way and being someone who isn't positive and who isn't uh okay positive, and within that, that they view as a source of their own happiness, that feeling of okay, that negative, there's a certain self-satisfaction.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: So you meant specifically depressed, yeah.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: And like it's almost in that night in that uh ruach nichaya, they see Alev Samaya.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: And what the Pasak says is that long term that's just gonna lead to actually being, you know, just the negatives without even that positive or that positive in a way that's not a real positive.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: While if somebody actually embraces, you know, a path towards real happiness, that long term is gonna be sustained.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_04: So the difference between yours and mine is I was taking, I thought you were saying broken spirit as an example of a larger category where you are leaning into a negative emotion thinking that it's gonna bring you this, this, uh, the success when really it is not necessary and could have costs.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_04: But you're saying that it's specifically um, you know, the uh this negative outlook will oh sorry, let me not put that there.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um in other words, in other words, this negative outlook um or um uh or like pessimism, I don't know if that's what the word that you use for this, or uh or you know, something of or or or attitude, right?
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um will lead you to the levesome.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's kind of like the person thinks that by like a person has a sense of self-satisfaction, not by where that thing leads them, but just by viewing that world in that with that like negatively tinted light.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: That that that itself is what the person where the person sees the happiness.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right, like an evo k emokid or something like that.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_04: Uh yeah.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh like an emo kid, yeah.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_04: Uh okay, next is my dad.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_08: So uh it was explained to me uh one time that in Rosh Hashanah we don't wish wish each other a happy new year.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_08: It's Lashana Tovat, a good year.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_08: Good happy good years are not all uh sometimes not really happy.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_04: Ah, okay, that's good.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_08: And so in the second part, the uh second part of the PUSIC, and maybe talking about those things that that str uh stress our sa are are are are uh our str uh are broken.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_08: Those things that uh stress us that have the ability to break our spirit, and if you overcome those things, it brings a certain kind of uh benefit that's unavailable just by being happy.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh-huh.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so how so are you reading it that uh I'm just trying to think in terms of the two halves.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_04: Are you reading the first one as uh negative or positive?
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_04: The first one is obvious, and I guess I'm not really so so what's the so I just want to read how are you reading it?
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_04: That a happy heart improves a cure, or are you saying I haven't thought through that part?
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, okay.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um okay, so um so the second part those things that don't kill us make us stronger.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so second half is an application of uh what doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and then we have to uh first half is uh TBD.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, Stephanie?
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_10: So I'm not sure if it's adding on to other people's ideas, but um, I think it's saying that for human nature, we take comfort in what's familiar to us.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_10: So if we are, let's say, a happy person, we are going to have like happy stuff happen to us and we're gonna think that's a good mindset.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_10: But if we're a negative person, like we sometimes think that like Yitzi was saying, that negative mindset is something that helps you and it's just something that's comfortable and familiar to you.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_10: Um, so what this Pussuk is telling us is that since we're kind of clouded by our own like biases, whether our mindset's good or not, we should see the results uh of our life.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_10: If we see that we're like very drained and like dry of bone and spirit, then that's something that we should look inward on and like reflect back on with our mind.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_10: Um, and so to the opposite, that like, oh, things are going well, you should promote more of that in your life with the way that your brain is thinking.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_04: So, in other words, like in Winnie the Pooh, then Eore um is very, very comfortable with his sadness, but he should look and see is is is there a correlation in his physical health?
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_04: And if if it he if it's having like effects on his sleep and on his eating and all his other stuff, so then maybe even though you're very comfortable with your sadness, like you should ditch it because it's not having good results.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_10: Yeah.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, that's good.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_04: That's good.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so in other words, the the the thrust of the pussook uh is is showing that that regardless of your emotional state, um uh you not I shouldn't say regardless, that like you're going to be biased by your your your default uh emotional state uh because that's your norm.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um so so you need to evaluate the results uh and uh and what do you call it, and um and make changes based on that.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_04: In other words, I I have I have talked to people who are in a persistent state of depression and think that they're fine.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's a that is a big thing that a lot of people have depression, you know, have.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_04: But when you point out that their life is falling apart and that they're not accomplishing any of the things that they want to accomplish and they're losing their friends, like that can sometimes be a wake-up call because of the phenomenon that Stephanie was saying, like that they're they're they're just so used to how there are, like it's a it's a norm for them, you know?
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_04: I had just a very simple interpretation, um, which is oh did I?
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_04: Give me one second.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it was closest to Isaiah's, so I'm I'm just getting a little blurred in my uh my thought for a second.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um what was I gonna say?
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, maybe I'll remember it.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_04: All right, uh let's uh let's do some of the mufarjim here.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_04: Uh there's a couple I wanted to highlight.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh and the only one I didn't translate is Massus David.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so Mitsuh's David, let's just see what he says.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_04: He says, Hasimcha uh joy tetiv legouf is beneficial for the body.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, interesting.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_04: He says it like Zadion.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Kedabra Rufua, like a uh um, you know, uh a remedy.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_04: The Shivron Rua and Brokenness of the Spirit, Tiabesh Moach Atmos, uh dries out the marrow of the bones.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_04: All right, fine.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I I think this is covered by certain ideas that we've already had about um about uh I think I Isaiah fits in with this as well, which is that like you might think that your mental state um is just its own thing.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_04: And in reality, it can actually improve or make your health decline.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's and again, look, to us, I think we're in a world where we recognize this now, like we recognize that there is a reality of mental health that can affect your physical health.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_04: But back then this is a this was a huge, a huge kiddie.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I think to people now, there are people who just still discount this, you know.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_04: So if this doesn't sound new, like it was new then.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, this is a cool idea.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so Rubina Yonah connects this to the previous puzzle.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_04: And again, I'm gonna read this in the Hebrew because I I did not translate the English.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, Simcha Saleh, Sibas Rufua Sa'ada Mihalyo.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_04: So the joy of heart is the cause of healing a person from his illness.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_04: Geha is Rufua, me lovshan velo yikemikem mazor, uh, vamikraza nismach uh inyan aviha naval, the haksil.
• 1:05:18
  SPEAKER_04: So this is attached to the matter in the previous process of the father of a low life and a fool.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_04: Lahodia to tell him, Kitova harbe ne deris me abihanaval, shesimka asher hi roshlu refuasaivarim ne deras me menu kasher amor of loyusmach abinaval.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_04: So, in other words, we probably sent ideas about how if you don't raise your son properly or your kid properly, then he's going to be, he's gonna make your life miserable.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_04: But not only that, making your life miserable will actually have a detrimental effect on your health, okay?
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_04: Which you don't want, especially if you have, I think we learned that this is, you know, mostly about an adult son, that when you're in your old age, you know, or you're retired or whatever, you don't want to have to be worried about like the kid who's mooching off of you or the kid who has his own problems or whatever.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_04: That's gonna actually stress you out and make you actually less healthy.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the goddle hara a shared yimsa es aviha uksil, kiatuga, sholetas bo the ittyabajgaram.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_04: So the the it's even worse if you're the father of a xil, because then you're gonna get depressed and then.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_04: Depression will dry out your bones.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_04: So this is further, further warning to a father to rebuke his son.
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_04: Uh shalot bamazov so that you don't get depressed from your son's actions.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I don't know exactly what medical understanding uh it uh he has here, but like it's gonna be it's gonna be really bad and he's not gonna have cures.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so the the upshot here, main idea, is is that not only uh does a father need to rebuke uh his his low life and foolish sons for the sake of his own you know happiness, but if he fails to do so, um his depression will affect his physical well-being, uh, which is particularly um uh what do you call it?
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_04: Particularly uh vicious uh in old age.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so you don't want that to happen if you are uh yeah, if you're i i when you're old.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_04: I don't I don't I I don't think we have anything.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was pretty self-explanatory, um, given our ideas.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_04: If anyone has anything to add to that, let me know.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh if not, then moving right along.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_04: Uh okay, this is Miri.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_04: He says two ideas.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I don't want to do the first one.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, Ul Inan Nigla.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I'm just gonna translate those on my own because I I don't know where it is in the translation below.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so in the the exoteric meaning, Odysseh the Farsh Lai Sumer Alham Alamid O'Harofa.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, uh uh this applies to either a teacher or a doctor.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_04: Umr aharopha, regarding a doctor, uh, this is a good good advice here.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_04: Kesheha Khole Roehu Samiah, when the um when the the sick person sees the doctor happy, uh Uvadvari Ma Revim uh and with sweet words uh uh sorry with pleasant uh and sweet words and promises that will benefit him uh as much as the cure itself.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_04: And then the cure will be sweet to him.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, who beruh nahea hu doeglazeh, but when he sees the doctor uh with a broken spirit, then he'll worry about this.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um okay, Allah of Amar Shinhan Hagas or Tiabj Gar Mahola uh regarding this, it says that the um that his conduct will dry out the bones of the sick person.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_04: The Khinhaeen Barav eat altamido.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_04: Same thing with a teacher and his student.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so what if you had to say what's the subject of this?
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_04: Posak according to him, uh we we have a term for this in English.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_04: What's the subject according to me, Eri?
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_04: What quality of doctors do we call this?
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_10: Bedside manner?
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_04: Bedside manner, bedside manner as a doctor or as a teacher, right?
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_04: Is that the doctor should not think that the only thing that matters is the physical effects of the uh the treatment.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um the attitude and mood and words of the doctor will affect the patient's uh attitude toward their remedy and will actually help the remedy.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, and I'm sure we've seen examples of this either in our own lives or in movies where like, you know, you have a doctor with a really, really good bedtime manner, and like it makes the patient hopeful and optimistic, and like it really, really does help.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_04: Again, this is like an area that we know so little about, but we know so much about the placebo effect and how the placebo effect can actually have like physical, make the body do physical changes.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_04: And that's a placebo, which is all in the mind.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_04: So, like having a doctor who is very kind and optimistic and happy could certainly have that kind of thing.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like, like, in other words, I'm saying that a placebo, which is just a pill or whatever, or just like the setting, you know, um, can have an effect even without this happiness.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_04: If the doctor is like adding to that with the human warmth or whatever, then that's even better.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_04: And then with a teacher, the attitude of a teacher is infectious, right?
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and uh about the material uh and about the student's potential.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's about both.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_04: In other words, if a teacher is excited about something, then I think it's gonna make the student more excited about it and they'll actually learn better.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_04: And um, same thing if if a student sees that the teacher believes in them then uh and is is like you know having a uh that positive uh attitude and is happy about their growth and their development, then they'll actually like like like rise up to to the uh uh to that you know expectation.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm speaking from experience with both on the receiving end and on the giving end.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's like a really, really nice um area there.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_04: Uh anyone have another uh anything to add here?
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, I think there was one more uh that I wanted to do.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, by the way, this is this should not be discounted.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_04: Rabak says like this.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm gonna read this in English.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_04: For through the joy of a heart, a good appearance of the body is renewed by the spreading of the blood and the natural heat through the parts of the body in a stricken spirit, which is the opposite of a joyful heart, dries the limbs on account of the gathering of the blood and the natural heat in the interior of the body.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_04: And he is Shlomo thus clarifies that joy is praiseworthy and sorrow is blameworthy.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_04: So his idea.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_04: So what would you say his main idea is?
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I know I know we don't hold by that um uh physiology anymore, but what's his main idea?
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_04: I think it is different than what any of us have said so far.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I I think I think this is different, is there is a direct physiological effect of the state of happiness or or sadness on the physical body.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, in other words, um we've talked about indirect ways, but I think he's putting this in like literal, like he's trying to say like literally chemical changes happen in your body, you know, when you're happy.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't know enough to say what those things are.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_04: I think we hold a similar thing, like the uh about like so we we already mentioned cortisol or stress hormones, you know, um have that effect.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_04: And I would imagine that there are other corollaries for the good as well.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I don't know for sure.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_04: But I just think this is slightly different than what we've been saying because all of what we've been saying could be described as indirect compared to what he's saying.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um okay, um, what else did I want to show you?
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know what?
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_04: Let's just do, let's conclude with the the derek Nister of the Mi'iri.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_04: This is the one that I did not translate.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_04: So the Mi'iri's Derech Nistar, his esoteric approach, is hold on.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_04: Lave some yeah.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, did I skip something?
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I did.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_04: Hold on.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_04: The reason why this is grayed out, by the way, is because um uh he took the whole cluster of psukin, but I just grayed out too much.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, you know what?
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_04: Uh let's I actually I did translate this below, so let me just copy and pasla uh copy and paste this.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and improves gaya lacking the cop of comparison, that is improves let me just get this here.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, let's uh go here.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think the first part is all grammatical.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_04: Uh improves as geah, meaning as healing, and stricken spirit dries the garment of a person.
• 1:15:15
  SPEAKER_04: So it seems to me it improves Geha.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_04: That is, it betters the healing and increases the benefit, and geha mean its meaning is healing, is now in the pattern of there's no keha for your fracture, and likewise you will not heal moon, but this meaning is you will not heal.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, but oh here we go.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_04: This is the part we wanted.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_04: And by way of the concealed reading, okay.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_04: This is by the Derek Nister.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, sorry, I just went too far.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, Kara rov ha hischachmus a derekhabyarnu ohiv mata umagbia piscov ikesh lave.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_04: So it's talking about um rov his chakmus.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_04: Too much self-education.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_04: Uh okay, I don't know what he means by this.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe I did not read this whole thing.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_04: No, you know what?
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_04: I can't do this.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_04: I need to read the learn the other stuff, and I'm not gonna go back and read the other stuff now.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_04: Let me just see if there's anything else I wanted to do, and if not, we'll call it a night.
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, um, you know what?
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta say something, and I gotta read this and um and then not record something.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so Sadigon says, very short Sadigun, Siva Vapasuk said, Lassalik Esadaga, Vha'i Tsavon Vliftoch Ashem.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um he commanded in this verse to remove worry and sadness and to trust in Hashem.
• 1:16:35
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so I'm gonna not record this part.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_04: I think that this is a good place to stop for tonight.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_04: So let's just do a quick review of what we had here.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_04: So we had the Ariel Malbim Rivki Mosha Kimchi cluster, which is that we're talking about either um we're talking about like counterfeit happiness and real happiness or outward and inward happiness.
• 1:16:59
  SPEAKER_04: Ariel and Malvin were saying that a person could be very happy on the outside and successful, but if they have an inner spirit that is um crushed, this is also hold on, Sahil Bloom.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh if they have an inner spirit that is not doing well, then that no amount of external wealth is gonna help with that.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_04: And they need to deal with that directly, whether it has to do with their social life, their mental health, their spiritual life, their learning life, you got to address the inner the inner issue.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and then Ruffki's idea was that this is taught the whole thing is talking about a person who is chasing after a false idea of happiness of the type that Cohellas talks against, and really needs to find happiness by being content with his portion.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_04: And if he doesn't, then everything else is just a temporary cover-up and it's not gonna really like bring him the happiness he's looking for.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_04: And Ramosha Kimchi says that same idea, but he says the first half is a person who's happy with their portion, and um, it'll be as beneficial as a cure, um, which is funny because like that's the thing that the person is looking for, is like a solution to their problems.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_04: And um the second half is talking about a person who is looking for happiness in the type of thing that Kohel says you can't find happiness in, and you're just gonna get depressed and uh and um what do you call it?
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_04: And uh angry, and then it's gonna affect your physical health.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_04: Then we have the Isaiah cluster, uh, which I think was what I was gonna say as well, is that there is a correlation between being in a good mental state and then caring for your physical health, um, and uh and the opposite of being in a bad mental uh um mental state and then not caring for your physical health.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_04: And that's important to remember because you have to address both.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes addressing the mental state will actually help you get started with your physical state.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_04: And then Isaiah's other idea is that um that even if you have a cure for a physical ailment, it might not actually have the effect that you're looking for if you don't also accompany it with a proper mental state.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um another application of this, by the way, is as they learn more about psychedelics in therapy, then they, I mean, people realize this for a while, but I think they're actually like developing this now, is how much set and setting uh help, which is that or are are the main issue that someone can think that, oh, if they take, you know, they'll hear something about how taking LSD or psilocybin can cure depression, and then they'll just like take it.
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_04: That does not necessarily help.
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_04: You need to be under the guidance of someone who can properly uh, you know, help you reflect and have the proper, you know, mood and have the proper atmosphere, you know, like it's not just the substance that helps.
• 1:19:34
  SPEAKER_04: It is the setting and how you go about it framing it that that that really combined with the substance that helps.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_04: Then Seth had his idea about um two different really coping mechanisms or strategies, Ruach-based and lave-based.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_04: And the Ruach-based is not going to get you anywhere.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_04: You're just gonna attach yourself to more being buffeted around by more things that you can't control because you're just trying to deal with this emotionally.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, whereas using your mind to actually like target the problems and figure out how to solve them is better in the long run.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_04: Then you have Yitzi's idea with my slant.
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yitzi's idea was there are people who think that the negative outlook is the road to be happy or the way or happiness is contained in that.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but really it's gonna have bad long-term effects.
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I was saying how this broader is true for people who think that by leaning into or ratcheting up a negative emotion, that can bring them success.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_04: But really, there are a bunch of ill effects that happen from negative emotions, literally ill effects.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, Stephanie's idea was that um people become used to their default state, whether that's happiness or sadness, and they can't examine it critically.
• 1:20:42
  SPEAKER_04: But one way to examine it critically is to look at your um uh at the results.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'll tell you this Mach Lokis uh between Rabbi Moskowitz and someone I know uh who suffered from depression.
• 1:20:55
  SPEAKER_04: Rabbi Moskowitz said, How do you know when you need to seek uh professional help?
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_04: Is when um hold on, what language did he use?
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_04: When uh the the uh something into the fact that like the the the problems in your life become unmanageable, like you can't hold down a job, you can't hold down relationships, whatever.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_04: And the person I know who had depression said no, um, because people who are depression can deny when things are going wrong.
• 1:21:29
  SPEAKER_04: You know that you need help when you sense deep down that something is wrong.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_04: I not having thank God suffered from depression, um would agree with Rabbi Moskowitz that I think that that it is very it's easy for someone to fake themselves out um about their internal state, but if their life is falling apart around them, it's easy for people to intervene and at least tell them that they need to get help.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but again, I don't have depression, so I can't say.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, Rabini Yona says this is more parenting advice that the reason why you should discipline your kids and have them be good is because you're gonna suffer in your health in your old age, in addition to your mental health.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_04: Miri says have a good bedtime manner as a doctor or teacher, and that'll improve the results.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um and uh that was oh, and then the robot says that there's physiological effects of being happy.
• 1:22:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh that um uh and and the reverse.
• 1:22:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, very good haul.
• 1:22:30
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of important ideas for practical stuff, and we just gotta put into practice now.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, uh as far as I know, God willing, next week we are on.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and uh yeah, don't see any obstacles in the future for that.
• 1:22:42
  SPEAKER_04: So hopefully see you next week.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_04: All right, thanks, bye.
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.