Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 31: Individual vs. Couples Work - Where Do We Start?

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31: Individual vs. Couples Work - Where Do We Start? · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Hey everybody, got a question for you.
• 0:02
  Are you currently noticing or have been through this in the
• 0:04
  past where you feel your partner tried to feels like they're
• 0:11
  trying to create space and it almost going to feel like
• 0:13
  they're leaving you and pushing you away and you're like this
• 0:17
  feels really bad. And then maybe you've heard
• 0:20
  people say that isn't a bad thing.
• 0:21
  That's actually a part of the journey.
• 0:23
  So we're going to talk about that today.
• 0:27
  Welcome to Beyond the Facade podcast.
• 0:29
  I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and I'm thrilled to have you join me
• 0:32
  in the space today. What we're going to be doing is
• 0:34
  diving deep into the trials and triumphs and truths of seeking
• 0:38
  authenticity. Becoming your true self isn't
• 0:40
  about a single action or a moment.
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  It's a relentless pursuit, a commitment to self that reveals
• 0:46
  the rich connection and meaning that our life has to offer.
• 0:49
  So whether this is your first time tuning in or you're a
• 0:51
  regular listener, know this. What you're building here goes
• 0:55
  beyond a conversation. You're here to challenge, to
• 0:57
  change, and to celebrate the incredible journey of becoming
• 1:01
  your authentic self. Because when you dare to show up
• 1:03
  fully, the rewards are immeasurable.
• 1:05
  So welcome to be on the facade. Let's get started.
• 1:08
  All right, everybody, so I want to introduce you to Rachel,
• 1:13
  Rachel Smith. So everybody, this is Rachel
• 1:15
  Smith. For those of you who have seen
• 1:16
  on video can see here. If not, you can hear her.
• 1:19
  But Rachel's one of our newer coaches to choose recovery
• 1:22
  services and she's somebody that I really value the way that she
• 1:27
  sees recovery. She's gone through her own
• 1:29
  journey of healing. She has clients with she's
• 1:32
  recovery services and they're really saying some wonderful
• 1:35
  positive things about her. And she her and I have a topic
• 1:39
  we really align on and want to be able to go through it around
• 1:44
  individual healing leading to relational healing.
• 1:46
  Rachel, what would you like to let everybody know about you?
• 1:50
  Hi, I'm happy to be here. And yeah, I have my master's in
• 1:54
  social work and I have found that really I've loved finding
• 2:00
  this space of coaching with the trail trauma specifically.
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  And I, I do, I have my own journey.
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  I am learning so much. I continue to learn so much.
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  And I am honored to be a part of people's journeys as they are
• 2:17
  discovering themselves and healing from the trauma that
• 2:20
  they've experienced. Absolutely.
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  Absolutely. So what's your thoughts on the
• 2:25
  topic we have to cover today? Do you mind kicking it off for
• 2:27
  us? Yeah, let's do it.
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  This topic very near and dear to my heart.
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  It is very nuanced. It is not black and white.
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  It is it's. I want to really take a broad
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  approach to describe what this is.
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  There's a lot of misconceptions around individual healing and
• 2:48
  relational healing in the betrayal trauma space.
• 2:52
  Yeah. And I will say probably 6-7
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  years ago, Alan and I were around therapist and there was
• 3:00
  this tug of war that was happening at least around the
• 3:03
  people worry around professionally.
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  There were people like, no, you got to do couples in the
• 3:07
  beginning. Like couples is important.
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  And I think in my journey, I want to couples pretty quickly.
• 3:12
  And and then there were ones that say, no, you got to get
• 3:15
  that individual healing first. So that's what we're going to be
• 3:17
  talking about. Yep.
• 3:20
  So on the presence, this also was saying that there's a loo
• 3:24
  and there's enmeshment, right? And a lot of times this is what
• 3:29
  people think we're talking about, that it's either aloof, I
• 3:32
  don't care about you, I don't need you, I'm on my own.
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  Or it's enmeshed where it's like everything is dependent on each
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  other and everything has to be all mushed together.
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  And that is not what we're talking about.
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  Individual healing does not look like aloof and relational
• 3:48
  healing does not look like enmeshed.
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  And at the heart of all of this, as I've been really thinking
• 3:53
  about it, it comes down to connection with self.
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  Whether we are disconnected from self or connected with self is
• 4:03
  actually what we're talking about.
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  And so you can be in a relationship and disconnected
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  from yourself, but that's going to look more like a looseness
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  and enmeshment. And you can be in a relationship
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  connected to self where now that is looking like, and I've got a
• 4:21
  lot of ways to describe what it looks like, but it looks like
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  healthy boundaries, safety, people doing their own work,
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  right? And so when I talk about
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  individual healing, what I'm really saying is getting
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  reconnected to self. And this is not a black and
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  white thing. This isn't like, well, I'm
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  disconnected himself. So as soon as I'm connected to
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  self, then I can be in relationship.
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  It's like a spectrum. There is like all of this
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  learning about connection to self on both sides of the
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  relationship, whatever relationship it is.
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  So it's this learning to be connected to self that I believe
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  is the recovery process. So aloof is aloof and a mesh is
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  like 2 ends of the spectrum and you're saying like get in the
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  middle? I would say they're not even on
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  the same scale. The way that it manifests is
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  really a loose and enmeshed is manifesting with a disconnection
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  from self. So if and enmeshed, I am so like
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  reliant on validation from others from outside sources.
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  If I believe another's healing is going to heal mine, right?
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  That is where I'm not connecting to myself.
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  What it looks like to connect to myself is I'm focused on my own
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  actions. I'm engaged in my own personal
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  healing. I'm taking responsibility for me
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  and my actions. My validation actually comes
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  from my higher self and or my higher power that it's that I'm
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  engaging in my own exploration of myself and not reliant on
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  somebody else to feed that to me.
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  So can I ask you for examples of a loop and a meshed in both
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  individuals? So I'm just a friendly reminder
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  when we talk about the person who acted outside their values
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  addict behavior, we're talking about the individual seeking
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  recovery and we're talking about the person been betrayed.
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  We're talking about partner and healing.
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  So can you give examples of for both of aloof and a meshed?
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  OK, yeah, so a loo and it looks similar in both parties and
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  maybe the words are different in like the justification, but what
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  it looks like is fine, I'm not going to talk to you.
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  I'm going to do my own thing. I don't need you.
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  I'm going to go like it's very reactive to what the other
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  person is doing. It can also look like a voided
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  attachment. So it's very like I'm protecting
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  myself, I'm getting away from here, but it's not in a healthy
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  boundary protection. It's just you know what, fine,
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  I'm going to do my own thing and I don't care about you.
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  So it's that attitude of, and it's still very reactionary to
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  what the other person is doing. It's not based on, OK, this is
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  what I'm feeling, this is what I'm experiencing.
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  These are the boundaries I need. I'm centered with myself.
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  I've, I'm reaching out to my support.
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  This is where I need to go forward.
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  So it's very reactionary. There's an overcompensation of
• 7:26
  kind of, I don't need you. I'm my own person.
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  And it's an energy. The words aren't what matters,
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  it's the energy. Yeah, what about the enmeshed 1?
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  The enmeshed 1 looks like, OK, what do you need so that you
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  feel loved? I'll make sure you feel loved.
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  And then you make sure I feel loved.
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  And then we're going to. OK, wait.
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  But you have a feeling. Oh my gosh, now I have a
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  feeling, but you can't have that feeling because I have this
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  feeling like what it and it gets very entangled very quickly of
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  what are my emotions and what are yours.
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  But I don't have any idea because we're so in here
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  together. Like every little thing of OK,
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  you're having this feeling. Now I have to have this feeling
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  or I have to try to match it or get rid of it so that I can feel
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  things like feel better. And so again, it's a
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  disconnection from, OK, where am I?
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  What do I really need? It's not about we affect each
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  other. We have impact.
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  That's not what I'm talking about.
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  I'm talking about not being able to separate your stuff and my
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  stuff in my own self. Like I really have to have that
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  other person like get it and understand before I can even
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  understand myself. OK, so for you being your story,
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  being partner and healing and then being around other people
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  in an individual with the individual seeking recovery, the
• 8:52
  person that did the betraying, when you notice they start to
• 8:55
  get really healthy because they do their individual work.
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  What is that looking like when you're when there's.
• 8:59
  Yeah. Yeah, so this connection to
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  self, right, open to self exploration and core beliefs and
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  looking at OK, what is really going on for me when I've got a
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  trauma trigger, what is that? When I've got shame coming up,
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  what is that? For me, it looks like that the
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  boundary healthy empathy that it's like, OK, I can see that
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  you're having feelings. OK with this is my feelings.
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  I'm not going to like take it. It's pretty disrespectful to try
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  to like take yours and manage yours.
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  So then we don't have these feelings.
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  You know, it's just OK, you're having a feeling.
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  I'm having a feeling and I cannot, if I am showing up as
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  connected to self, I cannot make it so the other person is
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  connected to self. And I know that and I surrender
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  outcomes and I surrender that. I don't have control over your
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  choices and I'm not going to try to manipulate you into doing
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  something specific outcome that I have to have.
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  Like I can be honest about my needs, I can be clear about my
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  boundaries, and I can let go of the results.
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  Now, Ari, can you give, this is really good.
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  Thank you so much. Can you give some specific
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  examples of what that would look like for the individuals seeking
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  recovery? So genderizing like him, what if
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  he's doing his individual work, what that looks like specific
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  examples and I'm putting you on the spot with that.
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  I know. But actually it's so similar.
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  So what I see from that is that there is a significant
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  disconnection from self. And So what he is doing is a
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  very similar process to finding, OK, what are my core values?
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  What are my shame triggers? What has been happening?
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  Who am I, what are my values? What is my worth rather than
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  validation even coming from the partner who has been betrayed?
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  Like his worth doesn't come from first healing.
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  His worth is just inherent and he understands that.
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  And you've said this term where like I am not my choices and
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  that is that individual connecting to self of like who
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  am I aside from my behaviors and what is my accountability?
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  What, how do I want to move through this, this world,
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  regardless of even whether the relationship stays or not?
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  I would love the relationship to stay, but I'm surrendering
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  outcomes too. I'm not like that.
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  I'm not speaking as he, but like like he's not saying if I do all
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  of these things, then she's going to be happy, she's going
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  to be healed, and she's going to be OK.
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  Are there things that yes, he wants to do?
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  Absolutely. But it's coming from an innate
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  sense of deep independent growth, not in order to maintain
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  an outcome. That's what real connection to
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  self I think looks like. OK, so I recognize this is only
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  part of the audience, but let me play devil's advocate here for a
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  second and say some things that the individual seeking recovery,
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  if I genderize, what he would be saying, listen to this podcast
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  is I don't know, have if I have time to find what I value
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  because I need to make sure that I'm just doing whatever I can
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  that makes her feel safe or comfortable to what do.
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  What do you have to say to that? So here's the irony.
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  The individual work to connect the cell is actually where she
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  will feel safe. Now there are those like
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  intermittent things, right? That it's really respecting her
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  boundaries, respecting which like hearing her and and let's
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  think, OK, so these are with the boundaries that you're doing.
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  And he can say, yeah, that's not going to work for me.
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  But no, that's because that's coming from what is really for
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  him instead of the the pleasing cycle.
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  It's like, yeah. And so I would say, OK, you're
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  just doing the you know, I get that there is these intermittent
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  things be done, but that isn't the end all game.
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  True safety does come from being with a person who knows
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  themselves and is connected with themselves.
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  I I hear from women a lot that they're like, I just want to
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  know what he is feeling when he's thinking and he cannot
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  share that if he doesn't know that about himself.
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  I, I kind of want to spend more time on that.
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  So help me out here, Rachel, because you're telling me that
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  you have heard the partner in healing saying I really wish I
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  understood what he was thinking or how he felt about things and
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  then the individual seeking recovery him would go?
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  I don't think she really does. I think she just wanted me to go
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  along with what? So you're saying that's not the
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  case. So why do you think there's so
• 14:05
  much disconnect there? Where does the disconnect
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  happening? What side?
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  Oh yeah, so much disconnect with the individual seeking recovery
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  to say I don't think she actually wants to know.
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  Sorry. They I I try really hard, y'all
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  to notice that I don't know he, he and he and she because it's
• 14:26
  bigger than that. Yeah, I think for the individual
• 14:30
  seeking recovery going, I don't think they really they want me
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  to follow this value, not really identify whether that's my value
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  or not. So to that I'd say that sounds
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  like that the individual seeking recovery is actually pretty
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  maybe scared to see what they're going to find and then be able
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  to share that vulnerably. Because if he is doing it just
• 15:00
  to please her, it will work. For the short term it will, in
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  the long term it won't. It won't be maintainable because
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  without really understanding our true selves and coming to the
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  table with that vulnerability, with saying this is actually
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  where I am and what I see and what I value and where I'm going
• 15:24
  at and letting go of the result of what she is going to do or
• 15:30
  feel or think it is her. It actually is very respectful
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  to allow her to see this is really what I think and feel and
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  then allow her to have all the feelings, all the boundaries,
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  all the space she needs in order to really be able to see.
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  OK, then now at least it's all on the table.
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  And that's really what I see that the betrayed wants.
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  I just want it on the table. I want to have the right to
• 16:01
  choose and I can't choose if I don't know, and I can't know if
• 16:06
  you don't know. Yeah.
• 16:09
  And I just want to acknowledge the scariness of if I find
• 16:14
  myself and I find what I truly value and I put that on the
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  table when my partner might not want it.
• 16:21
  Yep, and that is terrifying. It's terrifying.
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  Terrifying. It's terrifying for everyone.
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  And that's the purpose of this podcast episode is that I will
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  always be terrified and not be willing to take that risk if I
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  don't have that connection and relationship with myself, right?
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  So I can never be relational with somebody else unless I can
• 16:43
  learn to be relational with myself and and value that part.
• 16:47
  Yeah. And again, this is not a black
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  or white switch on switch off, right?
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  This is lifelong process learning.
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  This is not like get to a course of self discovery and you're
• 17:00
  done like we are on this earth for the purpose of self
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  discovery, for the purpose of connecting with self, for the
• 17:08
  purpose of connecting with others.
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  And so I don't see this as an even a linear like once you have
• 17:16
  this or even saying, once you have this amount, then you can
• 17:19
  try relational, right? Like it's actually once you're
• 17:22
  working on connecting with something, you, you try a little
• 17:25
  bit here and OK, let me put this out there and I know this about
• 17:29
  me. Now let me put this out there.
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  And then you and you see what this looks like relationally.
• 17:35
  And then you're constantly, and I don't speak from my own
• 17:38
  experience, I am constantly reconnecting with myself.
• 17:42
  I now like have been more in tune with my emotional
• 17:45
  experiences, what my body sensations are, what my thoughts
• 17:50
  are and what's going on for me. And sometimes it'll come and I'm
• 17:54
  like, whoa, what is that? And I'll take the time.
• 17:56
  I have tools, I have resources, I have support that has all been
• 18:00
  grown through the recovery journey that I continue to use
• 18:04
  to be like, OK, what is this for me?
• 18:08
  And then as I come to a safe relationship and say, Hey, this
• 18:13
  is what I've discovered about me.
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  This is what I'm experiencing, this is what I'm feeling.
• 18:17
  And it does need to be safe. And I actually have connected
• 18:21
  with myself now to recognize what safety feels like.
• 18:25
  Where before I was so disconnected from myself, I
• 18:27
  didn't even know what safety felt like, but now know what it
• 18:31
  feels like for me. I, I can't, it's hard because
• 18:34
  it's like it's for me. I know what it feels like for
• 18:37
  me. And so I'm continually
• 18:41
  reassessing, connecting to myself.
• 18:43
  And that's what I learned in recovery.
• 18:45
  And the beauty was once I started to do that, I could see
• 18:50
  things because I was using my innate sense of intuition that
• 18:54
  is in me. And so then as my partner worked
• 18:59
  through his recovery to find himself, to reconnect with
• 19:03
  himself through trauma work, through therapy, coaching, 12
• 19:08
  step, all the resources, he continues to be connected to
• 19:12
  himself. And as we come to the table as
• 19:14
  full human beings. And I had a picture of trees,
• 19:18
  but I'll just describe it. As you want to show it.
• 19:21
  Do we have some time? Yeah, yeah.
• 19:23
  Let's take a couple minutes. OK, OK, so here is my
• 19:27
  interpretation of what it feels like for me.
• 19:32
  So I've got my root of healing support tool.
• 19:37
  Anything that is there's really supporting me and my healing and
• 19:40
  my journey. It is here in the roots.
• 19:43
  And then as the individual, those are the things that are
• 19:48
  feeding me as self, as connection to self.
• 19:51
  Those are the things that I'm growing as a trunk, right?
• 19:56
  And from that trunk is branches and leaves.
• 20:01
  And that's where I createspace for relationship and relational
• 20:08
  healing. So kind of the way that I'm
• 20:10
  seeing is connected with self relationships looks like 2 tree.
• 20:16
  They're strong, they're healthy, they're grounded, they're rooted
• 20:20
  and then they are interacting with their leaves.
• 20:24
  What it looks like to me when you're disconnected from self
• 20:28
  and relationships is you're kind of kind of stumps and branches
• 20:32
  on the ground and leaves. And it's very hard to
• 20:35
  distinguish what is what and whose is whose.
• 20:39
  And then even like you yourself can be working towards
• 20:44
  connection to self, being open and having a space for
• 20:48
  relationship. And you can be around someone
• 20:50
  who is not in a space that they're connected to self to
• 20:55
  create the branches, to create relational.
• 20:59
  And it I cannot add this tree. I cannot create healing for this
• 21:06
  tree. I simply can't.
• 21:08
  And then this is my interpretation of like little
• 21:13
  roots, right? It starts as a little seed and
• 21:15
  they're little roots and you're finding that you've got your
• 21:18
  little stem and then the leaves start coming.
• 21:21
  This isn't like you need to be the full grown tree yet.
• 21:24
  You can start with little tiny pieces of leaf and then this.
• 21:28
  I really liked this idea. This is a picture kind of
• 21:31
  looking upwards at a canopy of a forest and you can see each
• 21:36
  individual tree and each individual trunk.
• 21:39
  It's strong rooted, grounded and no one is leaning on each other
• 21:44
  and yet they are interacting on a beautiful level in the forest
• 21:49
  canopy, which I found a really neat description that the forest
• 21:54
  canopy is collectively all the crowns of all the trees in the
• 21:57
  area. And so this is overlooking at a
• 22:00
  rainforest, which is a beautiful place, that canopy that the
• 22:05
  Rainforest Creek is from individual trees grounded and
• 22:10
  rooted. Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 22:14
  Yeah. I love the visual at the end
• 22:16
  that you the forest and you can see the tops of the trees.
• 22:20
  But and I really like how they interact with each other, but
• 22:23
  they're not a part of each other.
• 22:25
  There's separation there. And strength is coming from the
• 22:27
  root system and from the trunk itself.
• 22:30
  So that's great. Yeah.
• 22:33
  Any other thoughts, Rachel? Oh man, no, I think this is a
• 22:38
  topic that I could talk about for hours.
• 22:42
  I want to keep talking about it. I want to keep exploring.
• 22:45
  I just want to add my voice to the chorus of recovery.
• 22:49
  We are just in this journey, all trying together, all sharing
• 22:55
  together. All of our experiences together
• 22:59
  can create a beautiful canopy of understanding of recovery.
• 23:03
  Yeah, absolutely. And thanks for bringing the
• 23:05
  table today. That's the the visual of each
• 23:09
  individual being separate, but the interacting that happens
• 23:12
  between along with the rest of the conversation and just also
• 23:16
  just acknowledging how scary it is to recognize what's outside
• 23:20
  of your control with the other person and how scary it is to be
• 23:23
  seen and letting go of the outcome.
• 23:26
  So please don't stop doing your work everybody.
• 23:30
  And we're here to support you and that work that you do.
• 23:32
  So Rachel, thank you again and hope to have you on again.
• 23:36
  Thank you, I appreciate it. Thanks for joining us today.
• 23:42
  If this is something that you connected with, I'd love to meet
• 23:45
  with you more and talk about it. So what you can do is go to
• 23:48
  chooserecoveryservices.com or check the show notes.
• 23:51
  And there what we can do is set up a quick conversation meet.
• 23:54
  Thanks so much for listening to Beyond the Facade where we
• 23:57
  unmask the authentic self.