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Finding Meaningful Work and Purpose by Harnessing Your Diverse Talents · Happen To Your Career - Meaningful Work, Career Change, Career Design, & Job Search

• 0:00
  Sarah Hawkins 00:01: I had just tried so many different things trying to find my niche, trying to find my thing that I was made to do, and I just never found it. And I just felt like I've been looking for so long and trying for so long, and I've never been able to find it. So it must not be a possibility for me.
• 0:01
  Scott Anthony Barlow 00:18: As you're listening to my voice right now, that means that you have experienced some kind of setback in life, maybe many setbacks. And what I've learned is that it's not really about the setbacks. It's about how we react to those setbacks that makes the difference between either reaching our goals or letting them slip away.
• 0:02
  Now, when it comes to career change, even high performers are bound to stumble across a few obstacles before ultimately reaching their new career. In fact, I would say that high performers even will encounter more obstacles because they're often reaching higher. Turns out this is exactly what happened to Sarah Hawkins.
• 0:03
  Sarah Hawkins 00:44: So I grew up in the Central Valley of California near Fresno. And then it's really hot here, and there's no rain and no fun weather. And so I was like, "I'm out and I'm never coming back." So I went to Portland where everything is lush and green and gorgeous. And there's rain, and I don't mind the rain in the slightest or cloudy days or invigorating for me. So I loved it there.
• 0:04
  I went to school at Lewis and Clark College, and majored in psychology and loved being there, stayed about a year later. But I was not able to get my whole family to move out there as much as I tried. And I have a big family and we're all very close. And so...
• 0:05
  Scott Anthony Barlow 01:35: You try to import them all to Portland.
• 0:06
  Sarah Hawkins 01:37: I almost had my parents and they were looking at listings. And then my sister got pregnant with their first grandchild. So they said, "Sorry, we're not leaving now." So that was unfortunate.
• 0:07
  So I shortly, thereafter, decided to come home just because I missed everyone and wanted to get to know my nieces and nephews as they were being born. So I'm glad I did. I mean, I married my husband, met my husband here, and married him. And it's been great. So I'm glad I made that move.
• 0:08
  But I guess really, my whole career-type story has been one sort of bouncing around because I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't know what I wanted to spend my life doing. And I could never figure it out. You know, my dad was a CPA, my sister was a CPA. My other two sisters are amazing teachers, my brother's an awesome salesman.
• 0:09
  But I just didn't really have a thing that I felt like I was really good at that I should pursue. I always called myself a dabbler that I liked to do things for a little while. But then when it started to get too in-depth and too and you know, where you'd have to be like an expert, I just lost interest or it just wasn't worth that extra step to become an expert. You know, and that's the thing with psychology, I love psychology, I think it's very interesting.
• 0:10
  But when I started getting into the upper-level classes of like, really in-depth stuff, I'm kind of like, I don't really want to do this for a living, you know. And so, you know, I tried teaching for a while and it was like, "Okay, well, now I either need to go back to school and get a credential, or I need to find something else." Because I, you know, and it was like, I don't really like this enough to go back to school again, get a whole new credential, all this more debt.
• 0:11
  So I guess I just never found anything that I liked enough to stay with it for a really long period of time. So I tended to kind of just bounce around to different things, usually falling into the office management administrative type stuff, just because I'm really good at juggling a lot of things. And I've learned really quickly. And so I tend to just do well in that kind of environment because I am able to help with just pretty much anything they need.
• 0:12
  But it just wasn't very satisfying, I guess, because there's just not a lot of growth in that, at least not in my path. Because you just kind of jumped around. I did a real estate appraisal for a while and didn't stick either. It was kind of like I did all my classes to get my credential and it was kind of like, "Do I really want to do this for the rest of my life? No, I don't."
• 0:13
  So I stopped that, you know, kind of a thing. And so I felt like I kept having all these false starts, which made me feel like I wasn't really building much of a resume to where I kind of had to keep starting entry-level places. And so I was eventually being supportive roles to people just coming out of college and I'm in my mid-30s. And it was really disheartening because I knew I was capable of so much more.
• 0:14
  Scott Anthony Barlow 04:35: Absolutely.
• 0:15
  Sarah Hawkins 04:39: But I just didn't ever feel like I could reach higher because I didn't have the "experience", if that makes sense.
• 0:16
  Scott Anthony Barlow 04:48: Yeah, that makes a ton of sense. And so now that... 'Cause you've kind of gone through this sort of mental switch, thinking that, okay, it's got to be one or the other almost in terms of, I just don't think that I'm gonna find the stuff that I enjoy. And it's going to be able to have any amount of pay, and all of that stuff that so many of us think.
• 0:17
  Actually, I just got a phone call just a little bit earlier today where I was talking to a guy, and he said, "Look, I want to make $200,000 a year, and I also want to have flexibility to be able to go in and take my daughter to school" he's got young kids, "and I don't see how I can do both."
• 0:18
  So he was almost thinking about in terms of, hey, I'm gonna have to choose between these two things, and that they can not absolutely under no circumstances can be an option to do both. And we talked about solutions and being able to, I don't know, consider multiple different alternatives. So I'm super curious about that. Where do you think that that came from for you? Like, where do you think that you initially thought that, "Look, this is not ever going to be a possibility"?
• 0:19
  Sarah Hawkins 06:02 I think maybe because I had just tried so many different things trying to find my niche, trying to find my thing that I was made to do. And I couldn't, I just never found it. And I just felt like I've been looking for so long and trying for so long. And I've never been able to find it.
• 0:20
  So it must not be a possibility for me. You know, that must be the unicorn in the, you know, in the woods, it's never going to be found, Bigfoot or whatever. You know. Yeah, you know, just that some people have something that they just are not to, like, my sister knew she wanted to be a teacher when she was five. I mean, her whole life that's all she wanted to be.
• 0:21
  And I never had that. And I looked and I tried, and I tried, and I just could never. And I always looked at it as a fault of mine that maybe I was a little too ADD. I couldn't commit. I couldn't stick with anything, kind of an attitude in my mind that it was my fault I couldn't find my thing. You know?
• 0:22
  Scott Anthony Barlow 07:03: Yeah. Yeah.
• 0:23
  Sarah Hawkins 07:04: Which I don't know if you're wanting to get into this yet. But that's one of the things in the course that was just mind-blowingly liberating for me, was the term multipotentialite. Because you had a webcast on with Emilie Wapnick. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I listened to that. And I was just like, oh, I mean, I was literally running through the house telling my husband, "I know what I am."
• 0:24
  And that was just so liberating for me not to be fighting that all the time because I felt like I was always fighting. And sorry, for the multipotentialite is just somebody that likes to do a lot of different things. And they're good at a lot of different things. And they don't just have one little niche. And I guess I'd never heard of it in a positive frame before.
• 0:25
  Scott Anthony Barlow 07:57: They sound like negative, right? You just have that association, "Oh, it's bad to be a dabbler."
• 0:26
  Sarah Hawkins 08:03: You just can't commit to anything, you know, you can't stick with it. And so as soon as it's not fun, or whatever, you bolt. And that's not what I wanted. But at the same time, I'm the type that when I'm not mentally engaged, I just die inside. I mean, my whole soul just withers up if I'm not mentally challenged and engaged and excited about something.
• 0:27
  And so I can only stick with something for so long before I could feel the deadening start. And so I realized that, well, it's because I need to be doing different things that's why I'm wired. And so whether I'm doing that on a personal side to kind of help with so if I'm sticking with a career then do different things on my own or try to do different things within a role to try to feed that need for newness and challenge and all of that kind of stuff so that I don't get the deadening.
• 0:28
  And it was just really a liberating thing for me to embrace it instead of fight against it. And just like when she said some of the superpowers of... I think I listened to her TED Talk and she had said one of the superpowers of a multipotentialite is rapid learning, super adaptable, and there was another one where they can merge ideas, and I am definitely a rapid learner. I am definitely super adaptable, but I never necessarily looked at those as strengths.
• 0:29
  And I never looked at that as a benefit to being the way I was. So just kind of having that all tied together was just, I mean, really, I was on cloud nine for like days, just kept telling my husband, "I know what I am." He was just laughing at me. I was just like, you have no idea. I mean, it was just something that, I mean, it was never really spoken other than I would just say, "I'm a dabbler. I don't," you know, but to have it verbalized by someone else and explained and treated positively, it was just a huge leap for me in thinking about what's possible in the future.
• 0:30
  Scott Anthony Barlow 09:59: That's so interesting. But I think that that's... I feel like that's a big part of what we do, and when we're working with people is really just, actually, almost everything that we do is just helping people align who they actually are with their work and understanding the ways to do that.
• 0:31
  Because that's a lot of what I just heard you say, is, "Hey, wait, this is actually a good thing that I am this way. And there is other ways to be able to use that to your advantage."
• 0:32
  Sarah Hawkins 10:31: Yeah, yeah. And embracing it will make me happier. And more fulfilled if I embrace it instead of trying to fight it. And I think that's what I've been doing my whole life is trying to fight it. And that's something that needed to be disciplined out of me, you know, kind of a thought process. And I was just never very successful at doing that. So, yeah, just really, I'll be happier if I can just embrace who I was created to be. And that's a good thing.
• 0:33
  Scott Anthony Barlow 11:01: That is so cool. That is just, and I feel like for everybody that we work with, they eventually get to have that mental switch that you're talking about where they flip over and start thinking about what they do or who they are, or some of the things that they offer as a positive and start going with the grain rather than against the grain.
• 0:34
  That's probably the easiest way to describe it. But that is something that we, in a variety of different ways, everybody has it in, it doesn't always happen the same way. It's not watching the Emilie Wapnick video, necessarily, or whatever else it might be. But that is our personal goal is to have everybody have that moment.
• 0:35
  Sarah Hawkins 11:44: Right. Well, yeah, I mean, and I think you guys provide so many different ways to make that happen. Or to at least facilitate that happening. I do think it does take somebody willing to do the inner reflection and the work. And it's not something where you're just going to sign up, and then somebody from Happen To Your Career is going to tell you what your perfect job is.
• 0:36
  And you know what I'm saying it's not something that you guys necessarily provide as much as you guys facilitate. And so the person that is wanting the answers needs to do the work to figure it out. And it's a lot of self-reflection, it's a lot of self honesty, it's a lot of looking at things the way you maybe haven't in the past, and being willing to be open to what is your inner self really, truly saying to you.
• 0:37
  And not just what you hear everybody else saying it should be. And I just think that's an important component. And I think you guys are really good at facilitating that.
• 0:38
  Scott Anthony Barlow 12:43: Appreciate that. Well, I'm curious what, first of all, why, just to jump back here really quick and fill in some of the context, what caused you to want to make this last most recent change?
• 0:39
  Sarah Hawkins 12:56: Well, I have had some really horrendous health problems, probably for the last, it's been last 20 years, but the last 10 to 12 have been exceptionally difficult, resulting in me needing to leave the workforce because I couldn't walk anymore and was in tons of pain, and bedridden for at least a year, probably closer to two.
• 0:40
  And it was a really bad I mean, pretty much praying to die kind of scenario. And so I had eventually come to the realization that I will never work again, you know, I can't even walk and I'm in so much pain. It's not like a wheelchair would help. I thought about that. And so my husband had his own business.
• 0:41
  And so miraculously, I found a solution to my health problems. And it's a long recovery process. But I've already made so many leaps and bounds back to life that I felt being called to go back to work. And so I had been helping my husband probably the last year or two in his business, but it's not anything I'm really interested in. It was just a way to help contribute to the family.
• 0:42
  But so I was kind of at a place where it's time to go back to work, you know, out of the house, which was very scary because I had to leave under the conditions of I can't physically do this anymore, which was really hard for me because I always take a lot of pride in my ability to pretty much handle what anybody needs.
• 0:43
  And to have to gradually be saying, "No, I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that" until eventually, I had to come home and lay in bed all day for a year two, was a really, really difficult thing mentally for me and emotionally. And so it was extremely daunting to try to think about trying to get back into the workforce.
• 0:44
  But it also gave me an opportunity to think about what do I want to do because I kind of had this unique time where I'm not needing to report to another job, really, I mean, I'm working with my husband. But there's a lot of flexibility in that. And so I had the opportunity to really just kind of try to figure it out.
• 0:45
  Because when I started trying to look for a job, oh, gosh, it was so disheartening, it was just so hard to get your resume in anywhere. And my resume I knew was too vague, but it was because I didn't know what I wanted to do. And so I just threw everything I've ever done on there, to see if it appealed to somebody that could then approach me with an opportunity that maybe I would want, you know, because they didn't know what I wanted. And so it was really hard to tailor a resume.
• 0:46
  And so I started looking around to try to find services that could help me figure out what I wanted to do. And you know, it was reading all these articles on LinkedIn, and Glassdoor, and everywhere else just trying to figure out what do I even want to do. Because the idea of going back to just being an admin was just so... I just didn't want to do it.
• 0:47
  Yeah, it was just like, as I told my husband, I know I need to, I just don't want to at all, you know, and that's not any way you want to start a new job, you know, just something that you just are doing just to make ends meet, and you don't want to do it. So that's kind of what started me on the path of finding you guys was I was searching, you know, I'd contacted a few resume writer people, and just that I'm looking for somebody that can help me figure out what it is that I shouldn't be doing. I am capable of doing a lot, but I just don't know what the right thing is. And I need help.
• 0:48
  And most of them were like, "Oh, well, once you know what you want to do, we can help you tailor your resume." So I was kind of stuck. I didn't know where to turn, which was why it was so awesome when I found you guys because I was like, "This is what I need. I know this is what I need. And I don't know how they're gonna get me there. But I believe that they will."
• 0:49
  And so that's kind of what prompted the career change was getting back into the market after being out for, I think, I've been gone for four years from outside employment. And you know, prior to that I was seriously struggling. So work, in general, has a kind of a painful connotation for me.
• 0:50
  Scott Anthony Barlow 17:28: Yeah, I didn't realize the whole story. That's amazing, actually.
• 0:51
  Sarah Hawkins 17:32: Yeah, it's been... It was definitely daunting, definitely scary. I mean, that's what I would tell everybody when they're like, "You're looking for a job?" And I'm like, "Yeah, I'm terrified. But I feel like this is what I'm supposed to be doing." So I'm gonna do it and just trust that it's going to work out. So that's kind of how I got here.
• 0:52
  Scott Anthony Barlow 17:49: So when you started going through, and really trying to figure out what it was that you wanted to be doing, what was the hardest part of that process?
• 0:53
  Sarah Hawkins 17:56: I think I still had some limitations in my mind, just because of my physical issues that are on their way to being better but aren't quite better yet. So I knew I was capable of certain things. But I wasn't necessarily confident in my ability to do what maybe I felt like I really wanted to do.
• 0:54
  So I did the work of going through to figure out my strengths, which was awesome. But it was hard. There was a lot of times that when I first looked at one of the tasks, I would just go, "I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I want to do or what my interests are", like I just kind of... And so I really had to dig deep, I guess, and really just sit with it for a while and think about it.
• 0:55
  And when I was going to the grocery store thinking about it when I was working thinking about it so that I could kind of really force myself to answer the question as if I was in like a classroom or something. And the teacher was waiting for an answer. Like, I've got to come up with something. And so I would start and then before I know it, the thing would be full or it would be multiple pages, you know, where I was like, "Oh, wow. I had a lot more in there than I thought. I just never really..." I think, too, I had stopped when you're as unhealthy as I was and as sick as I was, you stopped dreaming, number one, and you stopped hoping for your future, number two.
• 0:56
  So for a really long time, I had stopped dreaming about a future, dreaming about what I wanted to do or, you know, even just like traveling or anything like that you just can't allow yourself to go there. Because where are you are you just feel like that will never happen. So it's just disappointment in store if you dream, so you just kind of shut it off. And so it was a really hard thing for me to start it up again, and start thinking about like, "Okay, if I could do anything, what would it be?"
• 0:57
  Because that's not been an option for me in probably 20-plus years if I could do anything because in my mind, I'm like, "Well, I can't do anything." So I have to temper it with what I'm physically able to do. And so that was really hard for me, I think, kind of getting out of that mindset of, there's a lot of limitations on me. And realizing that, okay, not as many as there used to be, and it won't always be this way anymore. You know, kind of getting my hope back for my future.
• 0:58
  Scott Anthony Barlow 20:22: That's like a huge... That's a massive, like, most people it takes 15 years sometimes to go through that type of mindset shift, I'm gonna call it, for lack of phrase right now. That's huge.
• 0:59
  Sarah Hawkins 20:36: Yeah, it was for me. I mean, it really made a big difference. And, yeah, I just, I really... I learned a lot. I really learned a lot about myself in terms of, I always knew I wanted to help people like that was something that I knew was always something I liked.
• 1:00
  But it wasn't until I really looked down at all my jobs, and all my projects, and all that kind of stuff, where we have to write down what was kind of the thing I loved about each of those that I saw the theme of, "Wow, I really like helping people." Like, it's really important to me because that's the thing I loved about everything I've ever done, but I didn't ever really make that connection before.
• 1:01
  And so for me, my dream was always back when I was healthier, right? My dream was always that when I retire, I would love to go do disaster relief, like hands-on helping people at their worst time. But that's a very physical thing. And so I had kind of written that off as well, you know, oh, well. And so I think when I was talking to Lisa, I had called her because it was the time to figure out what kind of companies, you know, you had to figure out what companies you wanted to approach. And I had no clues.
• 1:02
  So I knew what my strengths were now, which was great, but I still had no clue what I wanted, or what was would be a good fit for me. And I mean, I had like pages of possible careers that I was like, "Oh, I mean, maybe this would work. Maybe this would work, you know."
• 1:03
  And so I think she called it my runaway train of a mind of just being like, well, there's this, I mean, and they were all over the place, part of that multipotentialite thing, you know, where it was just like, well, I could be a writer, or I could be a logistics operator, or you I mean, it was just like all over the place. And so she kind of helped me zero in and I actually said out loud, which I didn't expect, but I said, "Well, my dream job would be disaster relief or something like that with nonprofit."
• 1:04
  And she was like, "Okay, hold on, then why are you looking at all these other things?" You know, and I said, "Well, I can't do that. I can't do disaster relief. Like, I'm physically not able." But then she kind of helped me steer me in the right direction of, "Okay, but then there's other things you can get into that can still fulfill that part of you, maybe in the nonprofit world that you can be making a really big positive difference in people's lives that isn't as physical, maybe look in those areas."
• 1:05
  And so that's what I did. And that's how I got this job. You know, I'd never even really considered nonprofit before, it just was never even anything in my radar, you know. Now I'm going to be the Operations Coordinator for CASA which stands for Court Appointed Special Advocate. And so they work with trained volunteers, they pair them with some of the children in the foster care system or that are going through the court system.
• 1:06
  They're appointed by judges to kind of pair with the child and be the voice and they advocate for the child. So the child's best interest is their only focus. So they don't care what mom wants, they don't care what dad wants, or grandma or anybody like that. They just care what's best for the child. And so it helps the judge make better decisions in terms of what's in the best interest of the child.
• 1:07
  So it's a really amazing organization. And I would be the Operations Coordinator, and then hopefully in the next year, so bump up to the operations manager. So yeah.
• 1:08
  Scott Anthony Barlow 23:59: It's super, super cool. And one of the things that I know behind the scenes, too, is that not only did you go through the interview process and go through the entire process really like going from deciding that, "Hey, nonprofit, for me, could be an option." But then you ended up getting the job and negotiating for the first time as what I understood too. Is that right?
• 1:09
  Sarah Hawkins 24:22: Yes. I've never ever in my life, negotiated, did a salary deposition anything. I was always of the mind, which part of it and I don't necessarily know where it comes from other than maybe my health problems. I mean, those started probably in fourth grade. And I had a hip replacement in my freshman year of college.
• 1:10
  And so there's just been a lot of things that just, I think, kind of whittled away my confidence. And so generally, when I would get a job, I was just so grateful that they picked me, that I didn't want to rock the boat, I didn't want to look ungrateful, I didn't want to look greedy. I mean, a lot of the things that are typical, but I just never, ever would dream of negotiating. And so you guys kind of gave me the confidence that it's okay.
• 1:11
  And you can go about it the right way that there aren't bad feelings. And I definitely stressed about it ahead of time. But I did it because I felt like I needed to push myself in that way and try. And if it didn't work out, then that's probably wasn't the organization for me anyway. And so I did, and they were very receptive and did what they could. And we ended up kind of restructuring the job title. And so the job I was interviewing for was Operations Manager.
• 1:12
  And so when the salary came in low, I came back and just said, "Well, this is what I was hoping for" you know, kind of did your script and just said, "What can we do to bring this up to get closer to what I'm, you know, looking for?" And so they said, "Well, honestly, not much." And there was a variety of reasons for that. But they said, "Well, let us talk about it and see what we can do." And so they called me back and said, well, they bumped it up slightly, the set opening salary, but then they said, "What we would do is actually demote your title."
• 1:13
  At first, you're kind of like, what? I'm sorry, I've negotiated. But they said, "We'll demote your title. And then in a year, that opens you up, puts you on a path that you can then get a promotion to Operations Manager, which then would benefit." They would be able to give me a larger bump in salary with a promotion than they would be able to do within the same role as like either a starting salary or a raise.
• 1:14
  Scott Anthony Barlow 26:41: Based on their infrastructure and their board of directors and everything else like that.
• 1:15
  Sarah Hawkins 26:47: Yes. So yeah, so it worked out. I'm happy. I felt like they were willing to work with me. And they're excited about having me come on board. And, you know, because that was a scary thing for me too. Because I was thinking, "Well, I don't know, if I just barely edged out someone else.
• 1:16
  I mean, I have no idea. And then if I'm being difficult, are they going to then just go with their number two?" And so that was something that was really difficult, really hard for me to just kind of trust that I can handle this. And I can do it in such a way that I don't appear difficult. And it worked out.
• 1:17
  Scott Anthony Barlow 27:15: Almost a roller coaster that you end up going through in the end you're like, "Yes, I want this job. This is awesome. I don't want it to go away. What if I was gonna.." Yeah.
• 1:18
  Sarah Hawkins 27:25: And when I talked to Lisa, on our negotiation call, she was like, "So how are you feeling?" And I said, "Honestly, I just... I had really hoped that there would just be one piece of this that wasn't so hard, you know, that I didn't have to sit there and negotiate or I didn't have to, you know", because it was just something I really didn't want to do, you know, and so it was just kind of I was really, it really took the excitement of the role out of it for me that I was going to have to negotiate because I was like, "Hey, I got an offer." But then it was like, "Oh, they're gonna make me negotiate."
• 1:19
  So it was like, you know, it was really a roller coaster is a perfect way to put it. I was happy. And then I was devastated. And then I was scared. And I mean, it was just all over the place. But I put my...
• 1:20
  Scott Anthony Barlow 28:06: But you did it anyway.
• 1:21
  Sarah Hawkins 28:07: Yeah. Anyway, so now I've done it. Yeah.
• 1:22
  Scott Anthony Barlow 28:12: Hey, congratulations, again, by the way.
• 1:23
  Sarah Hawkins 28:31: Thank you.
• 1:24
  Scott Anthony Barlow 28:49: Hey, if you're ready to be clear on what you want and find what fits you, I would say just email me — pause this right now — scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Put “Conversation” in the subject line. I'll connect you with somebody on my team, the right person on my team, who can help you discover your ideal career profile. Again, it's scott@happentoyourcareer.com.