Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 342 - The Many Cameras Of Lee Harvey Oswald

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JFK ASSASSINATION - Ep. 342 - The Many Cameras Of Lee Harvey Oswald · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I don't know what he's up to. It's picking me
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: like chicken, shoving me like corn, storing me like an ice.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Can I ask you something? Honey? Come on, the man's
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: trying to get some That's okay, go ahead, ask away.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: I just got to know the Kennedy assassination.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Did Oswald act alone?
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: Hey, that's for me to know it.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: I like your hair in the middle of the silver hair.
• 0:37
  Speaker 4: How old are you?
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Seventy?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: Who killed JFK? I'm not going to read all those pages.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Who do you think killed? You think the government too? Now?
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: The Disruptor in Chief Elon Musk, who apparently has adopted
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: the alias at least he changed his social media handle
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: to Harry Balls, tweeted this morning, democracy in America is being.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Yo.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: Yo, it's your boy, the Tesla King, Elon Musk. The
• 1:26
  Speaker 4: boys always make my rocket shoot straight up. No, homo,
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: you bout to listen to the number one JFK related
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: podcast on planet Mars. Now plug in your neural link
• 1:38
  Speaker 4: for two numb nuts who aren't a waste of government spending,
• 1:43
  Speaker 4: The Triple B and Joe B.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Is that Brad?
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: And show me joy.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: And show me I.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: Fellow, show kill me.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: And here we go.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: That is correct. What is up? Everybody? Welcome into the show.
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: Happy Friday to everyone. We were about to kick off
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: the weekend just right for you. After a long, hard
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: day of working, it's time to sit back and relax,
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: unwind and listen to your boys talk about some cameras tonight.
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: What's up, Joe? How are you doing? Sir?
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I am good, I am wrong. Refreshed after a nice
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: uh fsh shaven.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you look like you smell good.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I do, I do if I say so myself. Okay,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: uh No, I had had a good weekend. Uh I
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: had a good time off last weekend, went off to
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: Cape Cod as some of the members will know. On Wednesday,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I went over my visit to high End Sport Museum
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: JFK Museum.
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, Hyena, Hyennas.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: And uh Hianna and and it was really interesting, like
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: small museum but really cool. And played some golf, the
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: girlfriend played some tennis, and uh I was listening. You know,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I gave some memberships from the beginning of last week. Yes,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: like I think I told you off air, it's interesting
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: tuning into your own podcast to hear what was said.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't know anything about it, you know, contrary
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: to popular belief, I do sometimes go back and listen
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: most of the time. So once once your boy is done,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: I'm usually done. I always download my own podcast, of course,
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: because that helps, even in my minuscule a little bit,
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: you know, one more never hurting nobody. Uh but I
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: normally ended up end up just deleting them before I
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: even listen to them, just because you know, I was
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: there in my mind and I know what it was about.
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: But sometimes it is nice to go back and revisit
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: old shows and see what the hell is going on
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: and listen to yourself talk and it's like this is
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: not strange at all.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. My girlfriend always says I'm too hard
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: on myself on the re listen, which I probably am.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: It's tough listening to yourself, it is.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I'm never really uber critical of much, just
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: because I've been through a lot like this is. This
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: is heaven compared to what things used to be like,
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: you know, when you used to have to do an interview,
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: you know, on a second phone, on Wi Fi, on
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: speaker and recording it into another device, and it's just insane.
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: In your car at some points.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, you got real music going on. I
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: got birds chirping in the background. And you know, it's
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: a lot of changes through the years, and a lot
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: of them for the better, you know. But we're still here.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: We are improving every episode, at least we try, well.
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: Some of us, all right, Joe, Let's welcome in some
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: of our lovely faithful subscribers, shall we? And Joe was saying,
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: we had a ah, a really good uh Wednesday show
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: for members, and I will tell you this one coming
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: up next week. You know, I gonna want to miss
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: it because it's a good one.
• 6:13
  Speaker 5: Uh.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: It's all about New Orleans, most of it anyway, So
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: let's welcome in some of the folks. And we made
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: it real easy. We made it real easy for you.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: There's a link in the description of this video if
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: you'd like to become a channel Channel member and check
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: out our stuff. COVID operators and hire get a free
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: a free show every week on Wednesday nights, plus access
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: to the whole backlog of Wednesday night shows for the
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: past what eight months? Seven months?
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: I can't believe it, but yeah.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy. So if you'd like to be joining
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: us on Wednesdays, and checking out a whole bunch of
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: new shows. It's real easy. The links in the description
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Bobby thud Nuts. This is the way I want to
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: start off every show, Bobby, I want you in line
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: first every show. Welcome, mister thunder Nuts. Yes, Alpha sixty six.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: Big Mic is in the ouse. What's that big Mic? Right? Uh? Sally? Hello, Sally,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: approached the pawn. I'm glad you were back. Rock and
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: Queen Colleen, Oh hello Colleen. Good to see you here
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: on a Friday night.
• 7:32
  Speaker 6: Yes, all right, let's see who else we got up
• 7:37
  Speaker 6: in here. Paul, mister last week Buddy and uh open back.
• 7:45
  Speaker 6: Mm hmmm, Southwest is up in here?
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: Yep?
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: What hell a Scott Scott.
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: Lee, Ralph up in the house. Yes, bloody benders. Let's
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: see Double B is up in the house, the double B.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: Someboddy in the show without the triple B and the
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: double by. We just need a single bee.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Hey, Joe b is the single beat.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: Or just like a guy with one name kah, like
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: Bobby with no no last name or something like that. Yes, uh, sir,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: shot a lot.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, hey sir, he said, Hey, Triple B and the joke.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: John of course.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Always good evening, John, Thank.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: You was always that's right, Thank you, John.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Mutual.
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: Please you know Paul ps B see up in the house. Up,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Paul Jack, Good to see you up in here. We
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: know you're busy or you've been busy. Yes, yes, James
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: Smith up in the house. The man with the average name.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, could have been a spy yes, and his minnots.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: Hey, that's a good combo. Tiny Dance was up in
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: here four minutes late. But she's here. Welcome. Ashley is
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: up in the house. What's up, Ashley? Randall Brooks up
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: in the house back again. Good to have you back.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: I love seeing these returning new names.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Love it.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Peaches is up in the house. Was up peach sister's kitchen.
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: Turren Horse, I ain't seen you in a while. Walcome back,
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: sir or madam whichever horse you may be uh or
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: you may be guilding. Who knows?
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Who do you think turn horse had on the Kentucky
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Derby last weekend?
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: You're asking wrong, dude.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: I'll have to let us know.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: That is one thing I don't follow. Okay, I think
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: that's everybody so far checked in, checked in. There's thirty
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: five of you up in here and that's all good. Yeah,
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: all right, Joe. Well, we told everybody this past Wednesday
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: what we're gonna be talking about. And I was gonna
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: do this topic a couple of weeks ago and never
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: got around to it that the show we were doing
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: was just just one of those really long shows and
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: just didn't want to squeeze it. Didn't have time to
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: squeeze it in.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I when I checked back and I was like, bro,
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: this guy went two plus hours. I think it was
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: like two eleven or maybe more without me. Damn, he
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: was yapping like six barbers, you.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: Know, all kinds of bullets in the gun.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I was gonna do the Geno farcus thing here, but
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: there's really no way for you to supplement that story whatsoever.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: It's such an odd ball, one off, freaking story. So
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: I took that, did that at Quick Hits this weekend.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: H it' said. Wow, So this has been sitting here
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: for a while. I was gonna do uh something about
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Marina quick Hits, but I say it or I saved
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: it for here. Maybe did it last Wednesday. I can't remember.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: It's all just a blur.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: Now, but quickly, and I told you this and I
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: told the members this. I thought it was fascinating because
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I had never heard of the Campbell brothers I think
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: Alan Dave, who were in Oswalt's orphanage that were interviewed
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: by Garrison. The whole alleged Oswalt October sixty two arrests
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: with Selzo Fernandez Well, of course, was later revolved in
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: the fracas UH we touched on. I added on some
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: about the Oswalt New Orleans interrogation. I remembers only I
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: thought it was fascinating, and yeah.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: You don't want him Lee, tell him.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Button come on with Yes, helps us defeat the algo Yes, Yes,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: fire show man for sure.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: Now I forgot all about that, Sally, thank you for
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: being the emailers. We get on that show. I'll tell
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: you what. Okay, So tonight is a subject that I
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: really never thought a lot about. Of course, known about
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: it for a long time, uh, because of all the
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: lookings into uh the Beckley address and of course the
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: Pains garage and all of Oswalt's ship. It was in
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: both plays, right, so I wanted to and I apologize
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: if I throw the wrong pictures up here. Okay, this
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: is a picture put together by the Dallas Police Department
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: of all the crap that Lee Harvey Oswald had at Beckley. Okay,
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: now there is no official well, I mean there is
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: an inventory list, but there is no officially no cameras
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: on the list, although there are some items here that
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: look like they could be camera cases, you know, not
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: one hundred percent sure. And the list, now, this is
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: from Beckley. This is a list of the inventory stuff,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: like I said, taken from Beckley. And this is they
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: did eleven twenty three sixty three after they got the
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: search warrant, and they went back and they took a
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: whole bunch of stuff. So they got three pages of stuff, right,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: And what was interesting to me is down here to
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: the bottom second or actually a pair with a brown
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: imitation alligator leather case. Okay, so he had a pair
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: of binoculars at Beckley, and he had two pairs of binoculars, actually, no,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: three pairs of binoculars and Ruth Payne's garage, so dude
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: had four pairs of binoculars. Now, the reason I bring
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: this up is because, of course they're kind of on
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: the same level as camera you know, they're optics. There
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: are you know, something used to surveil or spy on
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: someone with or you know, look through somebody's window. I
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: don't know, you know, you know, maybe to see see
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: if General Walker is sitting in his window. I don't know.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: But so I'm looking through this and I'm looking over it,
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: and I'm reading through this stuff, and I see at
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: the very very bottom that special agent Warren Debries that's
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: from the FBI was personally there overseeing this DPD executed
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: search warrant at Beckley. Yes, of course, Warren Debrize was
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: allegedly Oswald's handler in New Orleans. Who wants Lee Harvey
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: is captured in Dallas. They hurry up and they send
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: Warren debriz to Dallas relatively quickly. Now, in my mind,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: there can only be one reason for this, because he
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: knows Lee Harvey Oswald he.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Was properly in charge of the file, or at least
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: in the least.
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, or Oswald was one of his informants or something.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: Because you know, the FBI was in every major city
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: across the United States. I mean, there's lots of closer
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: places to send agents from to help out then New Orleans.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: I'm sure there was an FBI office in Houston.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: And you know, we know there was one in Dallas.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: We know host he was very familiar with the Oswalts, right,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: So you have to wonder why send for Debris either
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: that Friday night or that Saturday morning. And the only
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: thing that comes to my mind is I don't think
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: he liked Hosty and maybe had a better relationship with Debris, right,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: or Debris was more familiar with whatever was going on
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: with But that's exactly what I noticed, and I hadn't
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: seen that before he pulled it up, exactlying I noticed,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: and I looked at the date. It said eleven twenty three.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: It did not tell the time of the search, but
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing it was probably pretty early.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not sure, because the same day there was
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: actually another search warn't executed at Ruth Paynes, like I'm
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: pretty sure was on the twenty second. And we'll get
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: into it more here in a little bit with Officer
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: Gus Rose and Stoveall and a damn chick and what
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: they were doing over at Ruth Payne's house. But they searched,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: and again I don't know what the legalities are of,
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: you know, illegal searches in nineteen sixty three without a
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: search warrant. I mean they had. I mean, it's mss
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Payne's house, right, three Payne's house they gave she gave
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: them permission to search through whatever they want to do, right,
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: so they didn't technically need a search one.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Did she see something like I've been expecting you
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: or something?
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah. And Michael Payne also shows up in the
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: middle of them executing search warrant on or not execuing
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: search one. He shows up on the twenty second as well,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: and they're searching the garage. Then I just don't think.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, they did catalog and take some things Friday,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: but they also went back Saturday and got more stuff.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: They didn't have the warrant until Saturday, maybe.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Right, They didn't have a search war until Saturday yet,
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: But they did take some stuff, not just not a lot.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: Now, see if this is the right picture. If it's not, no,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: that's not it. We'll get to that in a minute.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Okay. By the way, Scott says he doesn't seem like
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: a flip flops kind of guy, and that is referring
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: to that picture you just showed at Beckley. That yeah,
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: that white sandals that I looked at and I was like,
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: is that a man sandals in the sixties? And I
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: just had to do a double take, but I noticed
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the same thing. So yeah, I'm not sure. He doesn't
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: seem like a flip pop flops type of guy at all.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Oswald not at all.
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: Neither does Joe.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, you you will be wrong there, sir.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: Oh you're a flip flap guy. Yes, it was flat,
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: flament flat.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Not the flop guy. But I go outside, I walk,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: rud we have my flip flops long, yeah, so not
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: the not like those though.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: All right, So this is a picture of all the
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: crap that they pulled out of Ruth Payne's garage. Mm hm.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: And as you can see here, there is quite in
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: the in the bottom right corner, the bottom right corner
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: here we got two pairs of uh I call them
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: spy binoculars. They're very compact, they're foldable. I believe they
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: were ten ten or twenty five times. Uh you know
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: what they would magnify. But anyway, so you have two
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: pairs of binoculars.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Which so far total right with the one exactly.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's one there's one pair of larger binoculars
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: that I could not find. Pictured anywhere but that it
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: is listed in the in here, and it might be
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: in this, it might be in this big ass case
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: over here on the left, I don't know, underneath my microphone,
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know. But h to the left of the binoculars.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: You'll see. Let me see if I can blow this
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: up a little bit. I'm not kin, but that is
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: the Minox light meter right there to the left of
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: the binoculars. There at the bottom right corner, that is
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: a Minnox light meter.
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Bottom right corner of the sign, if you will, the
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: hand write.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: So this is what they tried to say that Lee
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: Harvey Oswald had. Oh no, it wasn't a Minox camera.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: It was just a light meter. But uh, we'll get
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: into that here in a minute because it gets confusing.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: So here is what, real quick, what a light meter
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: on the left is and the actual camera is on
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: the right. There is a somewhat size differential. The light
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: meter is very small. I mean the camera is very
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: small as well, but the light meter is even smaller. Okay,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: so that is both of those. So now back to
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: this mess here. So if you go to the sign
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: right in the middle and you go straight up from
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: the sign, you'll see these little wits.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: By the way, it reads voluntarily given Dallas pd by
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: Ruth Payne plus missus Oswalt Pain's Residents, Irving, Texas eleven
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: sixty three.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Yes, so you'll see these little black cards that has
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: Michael Payne's name on them and Ruth Paine. Well, right
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: to the immediate left of those, there's another black leather
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: case that is that is cracked in the middle much
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: like the light meter is cracked in the middle, much
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: like a flip has like a flip top, like much
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: like a Zippo lighter. Well, that's the that is a
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Minox camera case because if you zoom in on it,
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: the Minox camera itself has a cord on the back
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: side of it, and it actually fishes through the end
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: of the leather case right it. You know, if you
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: can fit it all in there, if you want to
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: leave it in the case, because technically you kind of
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: peel the case back and take a picture, so you
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: didn't have to take the entire case off the camera
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: to take a picture. You see what I'm saying. Ye,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: And some people say that that the the little wire
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: on the end of it helped you figure out the
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: perfect distance from the object that you want to take
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: a picture of, right, So that is the case, and
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: from the blow up here that we're going to show
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: you here in a second, you can tell the case
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: is empty, okay, which a lot of people have a
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: problem with now. Also found with the Minox camera and
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: other things is a pedometer, which, yeah, which counts your steps. Okay. Now,
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: back then that was used to determine the amount of
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: feet you were away from a quote target, if you will.
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: So he wasn't worried about getting this ten thousand steps
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: in the day.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: No, No, he was switching around just fine, Joe, without
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: a pedometer, but he had one. He also had a
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: camera in the top. I believe that that's it up
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: in the top left corner that he got while he
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: was in Russia. A little bit of picture of that
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: one is here. It was called the Smyrna too, Joe.
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: It's just like your average, you know, shitty camera back
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: in the early sixties, right, m hm, all right, So
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: back to this mess. I believe that this case at
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: the top is also a container for a camera.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: Is that to the right of that little booklet? There
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: seems to be some yes, I don't know if it's
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: a date book or calendar journal whatever it is.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: And again this case at the bottom, it could be
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: another camera case. I mean it could definitely be another
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: camera case on the bottom left. It's very hard to tell.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe possibly a case to hold one of the
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: four or three binoculars.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: I think the thing under the case is the other binoculars. Oh,
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: because they were described as a larger version, and you know, yeah,
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: that could be them, which.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Of course, why need even one or two binoculars? Why
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: have four?
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: Right now? A lot of other stuff up here in
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: the top right corner you'll see is is film film
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: cases slides. You'll see an attachment for it's an ANSCO
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: flash attachment for a camera right like lighting. Yeah, and
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: see all these boxes, that's all slides.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: It looks like admiral almost.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: But like code of chrome slides. Now from there, let's
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: see if we can go to this ballown up picture
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: if I can find it. Okay, this blown up picture
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: of the one I just showed you of the Minox case,
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: you can definitely tell it's empty, right h Now, there's
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: been a big debate online about you know, okay, Oswald
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: never had a Minox camera. It was Michael Pains, right.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard this.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. To me and everybody's like, well,
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: there's you know, the Minux cameras, it's missing from the picture. Actually, Joe,
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: I believe and this is just little old me, that
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: the camera itself, the Minox's camera is underneath the case.
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: Because if you look at the very end of it, right,
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: you can see that the case is resting on something silver. Off,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: it's not on the floor, it's resting on something silver.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: You see what I'm saying, Like you can see the
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: end of it.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see what you mean.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think the camera is under under there. Now,
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: I'm not one hundred percent sure, but I'm ninety nine
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: point nine percent sure that that's the case because you
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: can see that little that little silver cord on the
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: on the floor. Yeah, right where it says Michael Pain
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: that is attached to the camera, right, and you fished
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: it through the bottom of the case. You see where
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: the silver button is on the bottom of the case.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: You could feed this silver wire through the bottom when
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: the camera was in the case, But when it's taken
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: out of the case, you know, I don't know, that's
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: just me. I may have solved the mystery. I don't know,
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: But anyway, I wanted to point out something while we're here.
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: These little photographic negative templates that Oswald may was making
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: for people for whatever reason, I don't know. But the
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: one that says Michael Pain Irving, Texas, the one underneath
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: of it says Ruth Pain. I'm sure it says h
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: Irving texts on the bottom of it. It's a very
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: weird thing he was doing. Joe, check this out. So
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: this is a bunch of other photographic negative stuff that
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: they took out of the garage. And on the left
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: top left you can see where he made one it
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: says Lee and Marina Oswald. And then when underneath that
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: it says George de Mornshield. And then another way, hold on, hold.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: On what I'm just looking for the George Marshall right
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: under the lean okay.
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And then right under that there's another one for
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: George de Moren Shield.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I just large it. I see it. I'm sorry, yes,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: And then right.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: There's another one under that one for Lee and Marina Oswald. Yeah,
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: they made one for the Russian Hammer and sickle right.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: Looks to George Morrinshield.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't know what he was doing. I mean,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: he's definitely doing some photographic work, you know what I mean.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: If you look at the top, right, Rob, you'll see
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: the marine logo right, the United States Marine Corps. Right
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: that obviously that that famous logo of the Marines. I'm
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: just looking in the middle three one two four West
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Fifth Street, Fort Worth, Texas? Is that where he moved
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: in sixty two when he came back and lived right
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: in Fort Worth?
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: No, that's a combination of the address and irving of
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: Reef Payne's house, and instead of having it Irving, it's
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: fort Worth. Right.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, I'm.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: Pretty sure Brief Paine lived it. Whatever you said, fifth
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: Street in Irving, not Fort Worth.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: To me, this is this is like way way early
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: photoshopping things.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Very yeah. Uh And why the hell on the bottom
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: does he have a office a recorder of births, marriages
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: and deaths, Almost like he's trying to like get a
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: certificate or something, print one or something.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I wish we had the rest of this negative
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: to see what it. Well, it is, but that's where
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: they cut the photo off at Wow, them bastards. So
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: you have all this interesting stuff. Man found in Lee
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: Harvey Oswald's possessions. Now not pictured outright in the mess,
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: but probably in one of the cases was another camera.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: This was known as the Stereo Realist. And this is
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: one that may have been in one of the cases
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: at the bottom. And it's a small, relatively small camera
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: as you know, as far as it's not being big
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: and bulky and having you know, it was way ahead
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: of his time as far as being you know, the
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: lens style. Yeah, because i mean, look at the lens
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: layout on my phone.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: It's true.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you have three and then back to this one.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and Rob looking at this real quickly reminded me
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: of what you said in the initial Beckley photograph about
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the brown alligator. I'm guessing alligator skin case, right, Yeah,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: that looks like an alligator's skin camera.
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: Just looking at the left and the right, the brown Yeah,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: with a like a little leather strap. Yeah, just something
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: to me. I have no idea. Yeah, and I'm pretty
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: sure like that flip up thing in the front was
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: like a lens protector. You could flip it up and
• 33:44
  Speaker 3: then flip it down. Shutter almost No, No, the shutter
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: buttons at the top. But if you flip that thing
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: up and down and it would protect your lenses, right,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: you see what I'm saying. Some Now, this one, this
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: is an interesting one because it wasn't found with any
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: of Oswald's possessions. This was the Imperial Reflex camera, a
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: box tight camera when you would hold it your chest
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: level and look down into the viewfinder to snap a picture. Now, supposedly,
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: supposedly Oswald bought this camera before he joined the Marine Corps,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: and he gave it to Robert before he left for
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: the Marine Corps, I guess to hold on to for him.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: And you know, he went into the Marine Corps, then
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: he went to Russia and then allegedly at some point
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Marina took the backyard photos with it. The problem with that,
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: and there was a whole lot of problems with that,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: that Robert Oswald still had this camera after the assassination.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: So I don't know when exactly he would have given
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: it back to Oswald to take the backyard photos. And
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: then why would why would Oswald give his brother back
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: the camera. I think I read somewhere he allegedly gave
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: it back to him to give to one of his nieces.
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: M but I don't know. Yeah, I mean it is
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: an old style, shitty camera, right, but so very interesting
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: stuff there with all of this hullabaloo going on with
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: all these different cameras. Man, yeah, for sure. And the art,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: the work with the photo prints is interesting, you know,
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: this kind of stuff that he was allegedly doing. Yeah,
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: that was a close up. Okay. I also make sure
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: I got I got all the picks in. I got
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: all the picks.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Cool. Cool. I have a couple of comments star Rob
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: if yes, all right, let's see.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: NK.
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: What was the manufacturer name of the binoculars and the specs?
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: I couldn't tell you, bro it was. They didn't break
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: it down like that. I don't know if the FBI
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: did any better, because all this ship was taken to
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: Washington and re inventory for a third time by the FBI. Yeah,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: and the Midnox. This is when the Minox camera disappeared
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: off of the inventory list.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: H Yeah, this this is funny. Rob Sir shot a
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: lot first time seeing Triple B. I think he means
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: on video here on YouTube. Always thought he was a brother.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I partially am. I am three percent
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: from the African country of Chad and my ancestry.
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: A gift from your kid, right one of your sons.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: No, I came before one of my sons.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: No, a gift the test.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: Oh no, that was an X oh okay.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: But but that is funny.
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: He just which is if you know what I'm saying,
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: he does have a.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Great podcast voice. Op to Economist, Hello, sir, search one
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: for the pains was for the twenty third, not the
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: twenty second. Not search items were specified. And yeah, I
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: think that's why they wrote that letter that I read
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: that said pains voluntary early, let us photograph this right
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: on the twenty second, because they know they didn't have
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: a search warrant and they were making up for that
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: by I don't know who wrote that piece of paper,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: but you know what I mean. I think they were
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: hedging against that that they didn't have a search warrant yet.
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: Opto James Smith, Minnox was made in Germany, NK. Hello.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: Jack Ruby also had himself a Minnox camera, and David
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Arbackl said, Yep, he was filmed at an outdoor concert
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: with his boyfriend George Senator using the Minnox. This brings
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: this reminds me of that. I can't picture it, but
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: that is three suspicious people. If you count Michael Payne
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: with three Minnox cameras, what are the chances?
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, now, the Minnox can't. Back in the early sixties
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: or before we popped this up here, Joseph, real quick, sure,
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: all right, get that comment off there, real quick. Okay. Now,
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: the Midnox camera itself was approximately two hundred dollars back then,
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: so Joe in for inflation.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: At least two grand, at least two grand.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: Now here's a better picture. You can see the case,
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: you can see the cord, you can see the camera.
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: You can also see this roll of film here in
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: the bottom right corner. Eleven dollars for one roll of film.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: Over one hundred bucks. Not cheap, especially for Oswalt, who
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: we know is very frugal.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: Over here, for these flashballs, what's the price on that?
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: Fifteen dollars? One hundred fifty Wow, I mean, so you
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: had to have some money to have a Minox camera.
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: And I don't know, you know, I mean these that's
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: a lot of.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Money, thousands of thousands of dollars.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: Now, they did sell them commercially, like you know, you
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: could buy one. Anybody could buy one, but they're very expensive,
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: very expensive.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't line up for what Oswald.
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for a roll of thirty six it's you know,
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: eleven dollars one hundred and ten bucks just for film. Yeah,
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: God knows how much to get it developed?
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you develop this.
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: Little TV teddy film?
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah? No, it's a lot of money.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: And one last comment. I had Alpha six and six wine.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: Alex Harris up here with y'all. He knows a bit
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: about cameras. We'll get there, I promise. I consulted him.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: He's here with this inspirit mice.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, we'll get there, we promise, Mike.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: That's right. All right? So God, was it about eight
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: years ago or so? Maybe ten?
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: You shut them damn dogs up, Joe. Some friends of mine,
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: Trish Fleming Uh and Zach Jendro, briefly did a a
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: blog and they kind of looked into some of Oswald's
• 41:56
  Speaker 3: cameras and what he was doing. I'm gonna a little
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: bit from their blog. Lee. Oswald worked at a graphic
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: arts company based on based in Dallas. It was Jagger's
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: child stoveall on the surface, he seemed to have worked
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: on basic commercial jobs, according to owner Robert Stoveall learning
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: the simple photoprint process. Indeed, time cards of Oswald. Oswald's
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: activities at the company presented at the Warrant Commission showed
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: that he was working on accounts for clients such as Sears,
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: the Dallas Civic Opera, and the Sam Bloom Agency. Now
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: the sam Bloom owned a large advertising agency based in Dallas,
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: and coincidentally, Bloom played a large role in the planning
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: of activities of Kennedy's tragic visit to Dallas. Also included
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: within the inventory of Oswald's items were several envelopes labeled negatives,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: which contained some of the type of work that Oswald
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: was evidently conducting at Jagger's child Stowveall. These items include
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: photographic print copies of documents, as well as some type
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: setting using various type faces, printing out the names Lee
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: and Marina Oswald or George de Mornshield in different fonts,
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: which we showed a picture of. Also, in Oswald's address
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: book found at the pain residence, not the one at Beckley,
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: is a notation for Jagger Child Stoveall and it says
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: typography and then it says five twenty two Browder, Rhode
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: Island one one and right under that's two words. Micro dots. Now,
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: micro dots are part of a technique used to print
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: text or images on a very very small area. Originally
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: developed as a parlor trick, micro dots became essential to
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: us of the spy craft trade. These tiny images could
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: be embedded on an envelope or postcard under seams were
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: hidden inside of it links or under stamps. Reading them
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: required special magnifying viewers, and often these two were cleverly
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: concealed in a cigarette or a fountain pen. Which is interesting,
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: So Oswald knew about micro dotting, which is reducing images
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: to a very very small like you know, the size
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: of a hit of acid.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: Basically no for sure, and you think of I know,
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: some of the earliest spy techniques back in the Revolutionary
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: War was invisible ink, right when George Washington aspiring was
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: based off of Long Island, New York.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: I know I watched National Treasure Joe, But I mean
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: you have to you're taking a magnifying glass and lemon
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: juice and heat.
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then you're enhancing it, you know, dozens or hundreds
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: of times to reveal a message. Right, it's a type
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: of spycraft, if you will.
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But to reduce an image down to the size
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: of a hit of acid.
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: You have to have the technology to do so.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You have to know how to do that without
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: screwing everything all up. Yes, I'm sure it's not easy.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: Also in his address book is a rough but capable,
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: hand drawn street map of Moscow. So we have Lee
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: involved with the clandestine operations of Jagger Child Stoveall. In
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: his testimony to the warrant commissioned, Stoveball categorically denied any
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: such activities by Oswald. But when Oswald's military training, his
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: confidential security clearance of a marine, his talents with maps
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: and charts are considered, the possibility cannot be completely eliminated.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: And when Oswald applied for assistance at the Louisiana Labor
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: Department in April of sixty three, among the experiences listed
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: were commercial photographer, dark room man, and he stated his
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: skills with a photo in larger and large still modification camera,
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: the type of camera used at Jagger Child Stovevall Stovevall
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: to photograph maps, and understanding of Oswald's interest and experiences
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: with photography is very helpful when analyzing the photographic and
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: optical equipment, found that the pain residents, I would agree.
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: The first or I'm sorry, the Soviet camera described as
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: the Quatter two, it's actually called the Smyrna two is
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: a thirty five millimeter camera Lenz model with a bake
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: light plastic body, obviously purchased in the Soviet Union. The
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: second was a stereo realist camera that was the one
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: with three lenses. Boom boom boom, right, yeah. It was
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: a popular type of camera that could take stereo or
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: three dimensional photographs. This was allegedly owned by Ruth and
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Michael Payne, so says Ruth later on, because they thought
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: that possibly this stereo realist camera was the one used
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: to take the backyard photographs. But Ruth stepped in and said,
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: oh no, no, no, no, that's uh that's Michael's camera.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: The one with the three lenses.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: Right. Allegedly. We'll get there, I promise. However, numerous inventories
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: kept by the Dallas Police lists the third camera, variously
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: referred to as a Monox camera or a small German
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: camera and black chair and black case on chain. Four
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: rolls of film for this camera were also recovered, So
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: you do the man. How much is four rolls of film?
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: Almost five hundred bucks? Yeah, plus there was one in it.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: There's five hundred bucks.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Five grand today?
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: Yeh no, No, five hundred today, okay, roughly because they
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: were eleven dollars a roll, so today bucks come on. Yeah,
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: you're you're you're the you're the money man, You're the
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: fintech guru. M m hmm.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: I'm just making sure the audience is staying up today.
• 48:55
  Speaker 3: It was a camera smaller than a cigar and weighing
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: less than a cigarette later, and it had an excellent lens,
• 49:02
  Speaker 3: and it was a stroke of lasting genius. Originally envisioned
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: as a luxury atom, the original Minox camera gained a
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: camera accurate photographs of documents, and its small sizement that
• 49:15
  Speaker 3: it can be easily concealed. Although it was available on
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: an open market, it was admittedly an expensive item, certainly
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: out of Lee Oswald's price range. So what was a
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Minox camera doing in the pain residence? And does the
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: presence of this camera mean that Lee or Ruth Michael
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: Payne were potentially doing spywork? Hm? Well, here's the problem
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: with the Minox camera, and actually James Hosty claimed to
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: have used a Minox camera to photograph the physical evidence
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: from this case in Dallas on November the twenty fifth,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: afterwards returned from the FBI Washington DC office, and before
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: it was returned to the Dallas Police Department. So now
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: you have James Hosty having a Minox camera. You can't
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: make this shit up. There's a whole lot of mineox
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: and going on. By January thirtieth, according to the FBI,
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: there was never a Minox camera at the paint home,
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: and that same day Ruth Payne stepped forward to claim
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: ownership of a Mineox on behalf of her husband. A
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: Minox camera with serial number two seven two five nine
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: was turned into the FBI by Michael Payne on January
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: thirty first, and returned to him shortly thereafter. However, according
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: to researcher John Armstrong, who he made a note from
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: Harvey and Lee and all that good stuff, another Minox
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: camera is still housed at the National Archives, but has
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: been altered to prevent its serial number from being retrieved.
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: Michael Michael Pain claimed his Mynox was stolen from his
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: home years later, so a direct comparison cannot be made. However,
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: research has proven these cameras more than likely two different models.
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: Uh now we'll get into aj Weberman here in a second.
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: Other items were tored from the pain home included a
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: Nansco camera flash assembly, which we saw in the picture
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: of the jumbled stuff, several negatives and rolls of films,
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: nine boxes of code to slide transparent slides, a booklet
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: with instructions on how to develop film, various lenses, filters
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: for the stereo realist camera, a Sears automatic tower slide projector,
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: two stereo towers, a pair of binoculars, a telescope, and
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: numerous photographs. So not only did he have all these binoculars,
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: he had a telescope, he had a which sounds very expensive,
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: a Sears automatic tower slide projector, two stereo viewers for
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff. One important piece of evidence that
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: was not present during the initial sources of the property
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: but turned up at a later date was the Imperial
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: Reflex Duo Len's camera. The inexpensive gray metal body camera
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: was proven by the FBI expert Lindell Shaneyfeld to have
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: taken the infamous backyard photos which featured Lee Oswald holding
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: his guns seemingly the same guns used to commit his
• 52:42
  Speaker 3: notorious crimes. One of these photos, purportedly taken by Marina
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: Oswald outside their Neely Street apartment in Dallas, was featured
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: on the cover of Life magazine and influenced public opinion
• 52:53
  Speaker 3: about Oswald's guilt. Has stated the photographs and their negatives
• 52:57
  Speaker 3: were found at the pain residence on the twenty second,
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: but according to textas present, the camera that took the
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: pictures was nowhere to be found. Now. Of course Marina
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: doesn't remember. I mean she was so she was shown
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: all these different cameras and said, which one did you
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: take the backyard photo with? I can't remember. I don't know.
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: They had all cameras, just a camera. They all looked
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: the same to me, despite them all looking the same
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: right now, On February nineteenth, Ruth Payne related to the
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: FBI that Robert Oswald picked up the last remaining items
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: at their home after the assassination later verified to been
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: on December eighth. So allegedly, Robert Oswald on December eighth
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: swung by Ruth Paine's house to pick up the rest
• 53:58
  Speaker 3: of Lee Oswald's shit that apparently the cops didn't take,
• 54:04
  Speaker 3: and on February twenty fourth of sixty four, Robert Oswald
• 54:07
  Speaker 3: was contacted by investigators whereby he surrendered possession of the
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: Imperial reflex dual lens camera that was somehow left behind
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: by the DPD, the Irving Police and the FBI and
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: three searches they somehow missed this gigantic, shitty box camera.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: He said that his brother had purchased the camera before
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: he went to the Marines in nineteen fifty seven, leaving
• 54:35
  Speaker 3: in at Fort Worth when with Robert when he left
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: for the Soviet Union. As quoted elsewhere, Robert oswaldele excuse
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: me alone, felt the items were of no evidentiary value
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: and held on to him. That explanation was good enough
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: for the FBI and the Warrant Commission, and seemingly no
• 54:53
  Speaker 3: investigative body was concerned that Robert undersecret service scrutiny or
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: was under secret service scrutiny when he retrieved the camera
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: from the pains, and everybody neglected to mention this potential
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: evidence to anyone for three months. So, yeah, I had
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: some good work there by, Zach and Trish from back
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: in the day.
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So is that how he could have got the
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: camera back? If Lee gave that camera to Robert when
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: he went overseas and then got it back, and then
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: Robert took it back once.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: That's the thing, Joe, it's very murky.
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to get it straight.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: Good luck to me, right, because it's confusing as Hill.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: And Scott has a great point. What camera took the
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Walker photos? And of course the photos behind Walker's house?
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: I think in that alley way and opto economists I
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: think might have the answer. I certainly don't. The FBI
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: said the Walker images had the markings of the Imperial
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: ref Flex camera.
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, same as the backyard photos. Apparently. H now here's
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: the thing, Michael paines Mynox camera, if you will. It
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: was turned over to the FBI by Ruth later in
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: January or February, right, because the FBI pretty much laid
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: out these instructions, go find the damn Minnox camera, and
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: Ruth was like, huh, well, Michael has one that's out
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: in the garage. It's in a coffee can. Apparently he
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: dropped it into some seawater when they were on vacation
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: and he cleaned it with kerosene for.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: Some reason, kerosene not rice is.
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know interestingly enough, Kerostene will get fingerprints off
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: of things. Oh interesting, yeah, and uh so Ruth Payne
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: turned Michael's and Minnox over to the FBI, and then
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: they gave it back like a week later, said okay, thanks,
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: mystery solved, folks. Nothing to see here, right, there's a
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: problem with that though. There was a problem with that though. Now,
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: while searching the contents of Lee Oswald's sea bag right
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: in the Pain's garage, that is.
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: The marine Duffel bag right in a sense.
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, detectives Gus Rose and Richard Stowball discovered
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: a Monox camera. Opening the camera, Rose this over that
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: a roll of film was inside it and recorded it
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: in his inventory of items taken from the painhouse. On
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: November twenty sixth, two days after Oswald is killed, Dallas
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: Police turned over the evidence of the FBI, who took
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: charge of the investigation. Every piece of evidence was catalog
• 58:18
  Speaker 3: and signed for by FBI agent Warren Debrieze. And one
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: of the things clearly mentioned on here is one Minox camera,
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: one pedometer, one compass, one handsome self timer, one lens
• 58:39
  Speaker 3: in a hood, one fifteen power telescope, one stereo viewer,
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: one pocket knife and leather container and so on and
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: so forth. But you get the picture. They clearly put
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: down there that a Minox camera was found and Warren
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: Debris signed for it. However, the contacted Rose and Stoveall
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: and informed them that there was no camera, it was
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: just a Minox light meter. They pressured the excuse me,
• 59:13
  Speaker 3: the detectives to change their inventory. Now, Gus Rose was
• 59:18
  Speaker 3: interviewed for the HSCA right in nineteen seventy eight, and
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: here's what he says. He says, quote and I quote.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: We found this camera, and of course we brought it
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: and a whole lot of other property in as possible
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: evidence in the case. And while we were marking the
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: evidence for later identification by us to be used in evidence,
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: we did Stoveall and I did take a close look
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: at this Mineox miniature camera and it did have a
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: role of film in it. As time passed and after
• 59:55
  Speaker 3: the warrant Commission was appointed, a couple of FBI agents
• 59:58
  Speaker 3: made three different trips to our office talk to me
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: about this camera. They said that after they had received
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: all of the property, they found that I had made
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: a mistake and that really it wasn't a camera. It
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: was just a light meter. However, as I told them
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: at the time, I was pretty sure that I hadn't
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: made a mistake. It definitely was a camera, and I
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: definitely opened it and it definitely did have film in it. However,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 3: they wanted me to change that in our property invoice,
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: to read Minnock's light meter and not read Minnox's camera.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: We never did change it, though, and Captain Fritz instructed
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: me if I was sure I was right, not to
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 3: make any changes in any reports and to stay with
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 3: what was right. So I didn't.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So right there you have it straight from the
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: horse's mouth that he was pressured by the FBI to
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: change the inventory list because Joe, if you have a
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: regular loan, not a ass and with a spy camera
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 3: in his possessions that he couldn't afford, you got yourself
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: a problem because then you have to explain where the
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 3: hell he got it right, right, So when that didn't work,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: they flipped the narrative to, oh, it's just Michael Payne's
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: my OX camera right yet clearly right here he states
• 1:01:34
  Speaker 3: it's found in Oswald's sea bag, not laying in a
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: not in a coffee can, in Michael Payne's garage. So
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's just ridiculous. I mean, if you have
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: the ship, it's found in Oswald's possessions, unless you have
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: Oswald on one of his trips that were to the
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: pain house, sneaking around in the garage and stealing Michael
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 3: Paine's shit and shoving it in his sea bag, which
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 3: I don't see happening, right because you think Ruth was
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: there when she gave permission for them to search the garage.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 3: She stood right there the whole time, and if they
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: started pulling out some of her husband shit out of
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: Oswald's sea bag, she probably would have made a big
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: old stink about it, like why is my Ansco flash
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: tower in his bag? Why is Michael's min Knox camera
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: in his bag? Oh, he was stealing shit from us.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 3: Not only was he jerk, he's a thief, But you
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: never heard that come out of Ruth Payne's mouth. And
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: yet she stood there the whole time the detectives searched
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: her garage and never said a thing about any of
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 3: that stuff being her husbands. And not only that, but
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: Michael Payne showed up at the house in the middle
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: of them searching and you'll see here in a second.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: He didn't knock. He just can't walk right on in,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: like in the place. What are you doing? We're searching
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: around here for Oswald shit? Oh okay, Well, if it
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: was my house, or it had been my house and
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: some of my shits in the garage, I'm going to
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: be making sure that the police don't take it, right,
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna say, no, no, that's mine. You know, that's
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: not Oswald, that's my shit. Let me see what y'all
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: got here, all right, Just make sure you don't take
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: none of my stuff.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 1: Well maybe that's why he showed up in the first place.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: Well that's not what he said.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 1: Why he showed up, right, Who knows why? But sus
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: that he showed up in the middle.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 3: Of it for sure, Well he says why. But we'll
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: get there, okay. So several weeks after the assassination, the
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 3: FBI contacted the Dallas Police property manager HW Hill, who
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: compiled with their request and made the notation on the
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: property invoice. It is that altered copy that appears in
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 3: the Warren Commission exhibits. That's why you have the minox
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: camera disappearing off of the list and the Mineox light
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: meter appearing on the list that the Warren Commission has.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: You won't find the original in the Warren Commission report,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: the one that says Minox camera. See how that works?
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: Joe Yes Ye, Dallas Assistant District Attorney William Alexander also
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: confirmed the existence of a Minox camera found an Oswald's seabag.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 3: The FBI denied the existence of a very small pocket
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: Mineox camera found among Oswald's belongings. And well, this comes
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: from Larry Sneed's book No More Silence. We picked up
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 3: and this, William Alexander, We picked up a Minox camera
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: that had some film in it and turned it over
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: to the FBI, despite their denials claiming it was a
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: light meaner. I examined it, and I know a camera
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: when I see one. It had film in it. We
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: had the Minox camera and that was all there was
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: to it. In those days, a Minox camera costs probably
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: around two hundred bucks. What inference can be drawn from it?
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: Who knows? Unless he has an intelligence buff, or unless
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: he was an intelligence buff and had bought it through
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: a PX. Obviously, at least a speculation about his being
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: involved in some kind of intelligence work and this is
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: coming from the Dallas assistant DA William Alexander. Yeah, okay,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: m yeah, let's see.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Real quickly. Rob Roberta Glass from Too True Crime Report
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: says Hi, ro.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: Hello Roberta, and I hope you're doing well. Welcome in,
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: welcome in. Thank you for taking the time to check
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 3: in here. Yep.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: And Sally also said, I'm sorry, Robert. She read that
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: a researcher she can't remember who went to look at
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: the camera. He said he could tell something was in it.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: However it was sealed shut. He definitely said it was
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: not the main my Ox and James's next comment was, yeah,
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: I think it was welded.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: Oh what John Armstrong said? What is it? Was that
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 3: it had been like cemented shut or super glued shut
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 3: for what it's worth, and the serial number was not
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: legible on it. Now there is a very interesting education
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: for him tail that Doug had turned me on too
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 3: before and told me to check it out. And I
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 3: found the comment that, interestingly enough, the the MYNX camera
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: that Oswald had the serial number matches. It was originally
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: Dick Billings from Life magazine. It was originally his Minox camera.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 3: It was given to Eddie Bayo before the Day of Pigs, right, Yeah,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 3: and somehow Oswald ends up with it. Now, I don't know.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: The providence of this just comes from Jerry Patrick Hemming
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: in his in his later days.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, yep, Sally said it a few minutes ago. Do
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: you believe what Hemming said about the Mineox Richard Billings
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: of Life, Blakey's book and HSCA, Eddie Biot, Sally's on it.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: You are on it, Sally. Yes, there's a lot to
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: unpack there. And we'll get into the A. J. Weberman
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 3: stuff here a little bit, because as you know, uh uh,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: he actually submitted a four year request in the seventies
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 3: for the f NARA to develop the film that was
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: found in the Minox camera. Okay, and he published a
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 3: lot of these pictures in his book The Oswald Code,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: which is where we get this one who he allegedly says,
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: is Jerry Patrick Hemming here on the right. I don't
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: know if they're this is Lee Oswald to his immediate left,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: or if Oswald is the one they're pretending to choke.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: And well, how many was extremely tall?
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then there was this one in there which
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: is you can definitely tell, you know, it's taken overseas
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 3: in some kind of Asian country a beach, right, Yeah,
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 3: it looks like they're on the beach and then there's
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: the ocean in the background, and you got you know,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: it's behind some kind of fence, like a barbed wire fence.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: And I don't know what's going on here. But now
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 3: the problem, the problem with this allegation of it being
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 3: Michael Payne. See, Michael Payne was in the Army, and
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 3: he was also in Korea. Lee Oswald's in the Marines.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 3: You have him in Japan and the Philippines, right, So
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 3: it's very hard to tell what's going on here. Now,
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 3: some people have kind of analyzed this hat that this
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 3: guy is wearing on the right, Yeah, on the right,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 3: and it appears to be, uh, some kind of army
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 3: hat and not a marine hat. But I would think
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 3: the Marines had some kind of similar slouch cap, fatigue
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 3: cap like like that. You know, I don't know, it's
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: very murky. And here's another one, and I believe he
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: was saying this is himing on the right, that's Oswald
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: right beside him. I don't know. I couldn't blow it
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 3: enough to make I couldn't blow it up enough to
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: make out whether it looks like Oswald or not. It's
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: very indeterminable, right, but interesting. Nonetheless, so there was a
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 3: nineteen November twenty fifth, nineteen sixty three memo, the day
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 3: before the FBI officially took possession of the evidence. The
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 3: FBI requested a comparison of the Minox film recovered from
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: the possessions of Lee Harvey Oswald with another role of
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: Minox film designated Q five. Property Report G one one
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: one nine three, dated November twenty six shows quote two
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: roles of apparently exposed Minox film. These two roles of
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: Minox film appeared to belong to the Pains and our
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 3: photographs of a European vacation. The FBI did not take
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: possession of these films until eleven, twenty six sixty three. Therefore,
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 3: the film recovered from Oswald's possession owner before the twenty
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: fifth must be the role of film recovered from the
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: Minox camera found in Oswald's sea bag. The Mineox film
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 3: belonging to the Pains was found in Minox containers that
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 3: held two roles of film and the DPD evidence photo
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: A loose role of Minox film can be seen by
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 3: the case and name tis. The FBI returned to the
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 3: Minox case and name tags to Ruth Pain, but inexplicably
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 3: they were not part of the twenty sixth November transfer
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 3: to the FBI. I believe the FBI had taken possession
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 3: of these items, as well as the light meter that
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: was later substituted for our camera, before the twenty fifth
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: of November, and it is my opinion that the role
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 3: of film came from Oswald's camera and the film the
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: FBI lab compared to Sample Q five. January thirty, nineteen
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: sixty four, Hoover sent a memorandum to Gordon Shanklin ordering
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: an investigation into the matter of the missing Minox camera.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: The allegedly missing Minox camera.
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: What was the date on that document?
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 3: January thirtieth, nineteen sixty four.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, yeah, But yet.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 3: There was film and accessories that indicated that such a
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 3: camera existed. The same day, Ruth Pain was attacted and
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 3: informed the Dallas office that her husband did own a
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 3: Minox camera, but it was no longer working. And according
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 3: to a special report done by Bardwell Odom on January
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 3: thirty first says he pain owns a Minox camera and
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 3: that camera is at his home in Erving, Texas. Several
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 3: years ago, he dropped his camera in salt water off
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 3: the coast of Cape Cod and after retrieving it, soaking
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: it in kerosene and cleaning it, it appeared to be
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 3: in good working condition.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: Thereafter, rob I could have looked for it this past week.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Thereafter someone bent the shutter by pulling the lens
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 3: out too far, and to the best of his knowledge,
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: it is not now in working condition. He stated that
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: he did have some cans of film and that some
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: of them were probably exposed, but the picture made on
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: his films or at least five years old. He stated
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: that he had a case for the camera and other accessories,
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: including a light meter. He stated that when the police
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 3: came to his house on November twenty second, they took
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: the entire contents of a drawer containing photographic equipment of
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: his with the exception of the camera. He stated that
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 3: his camera was in his garage at that time and
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: that although he mentioned the camera to the police, they
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 3: did not seem interested in this. He stated that he
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 3: is sure Lee Harvey Oswald never used this camera, and
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: he is of the opinion that it is not in
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 3: working condition at the present time. Mister Paine stated that
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 3: he had no knowledge of a no admittance sign which
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: was picked up by the police at his residence. He
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 3: stated this sign is not his and he had never
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 3: seen it before. A Minox three camera serial number two
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 3: seven two five nine was turned over to the FBI
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 3: on January thirty first, nineteen sixty four, and given the
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 3: designation of D eighty. This would be Michael Pain's. The
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: inventory shows that the camera was acquired from Ruth Paine. However,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 3: Pain later stated she's not ever recalled giving the camera
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 3: to the FBI. Another FBI document, also dated January thirty first,
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 3: shows that the camera was given to the FBI by
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: Michael Pain and not Root Paint. So what happened to
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 3: the paying Minox Well. According to Michael Paine, the camera
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: was returned to him shortly after the assassination and eventually
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 3: stolen along with his other photographic equipment about five years
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: after the assassination.
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: Allegedly, yeah, man, this this screams to me in January
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: of sixty four, as like tying up loose ends in
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: this department.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 3: Almost Yeah, now Marina, we'll get to Marina's HSCA testimony.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 3: She appeared before the House Select Committee and she was
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: shown two Minox cameras and asked if she had seen
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: either one before. One of the cameras, which is a
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 3: Model three with no serial number, came from the National Archives.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 3: The other Mineox, described as a Model one, had a
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 3: serial number two three S two three three nine three
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 3: oh three. This says the exhibit here, which has identified
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 3: as FBI Exhibit D eighty, which we now know was
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 3: Michael Payne's Mineox. Uh thises, is look familiar to you?
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 3: She says no. And this camera here, this Minox one,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 3: with the serial number S two two S two three
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 3: three nine three oh three, does this look familiar to you?
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: No?
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 3: Did you ever see any of the cameras before you
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 3: in the possession of Lee, I do not recall now
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: a lot of the camera we used to have. The
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: camera could be here, but I would not recognize it.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: That though, you just don't remember.
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: The picture of she allegedly took and nearly eat the
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: camera you used allegedly in Russia. You don't have any idea.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: If I show you this camera which the commission in
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 3: exhibits seven point fifty. Now this is the Imperial Reflex
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 3: that took the backyard photos allegedly, and raise the top
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: part so you can see that there's a viewfinder, and
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 3: ask you to just look at the camera. Will that
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: refresh your recollection that this was the camera that you
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: allegedly took the photographs of lead with. Well, I honestly
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: do not remember if I look straight at an object
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 3: or look down at if you finder.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: Wait, rob are they asking her to look through the
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: lens and ask if it refreshes from memory?
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: Okay, got it.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: You know, look at the camera right.
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: Look into it like physically right? Right?
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: Okay, so they say, but seeing the camera today, you
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 3: still have no memory of what the camera looked like. No,
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: I am sorry, I am unprofessional about the camera. Whatever
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: your memory is, that is what we want to find out.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: I definitely, or she says, I definitely never saw that before.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: What are you referring to? Marina says, these two little ones.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 3: The record should note that she is referring to the
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 3: Minox camera which is D eighty and the other Minox
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: camera identified as Minox one. And by that I mean
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 3: in my possession or leaves possession. You never saw a
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: camera like that, and Marina says no. After a break,
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 3: they go back a mister Wolf returns to the subject
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 3: of the two Minox cameras. Back on the record, we
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: are going to take a lunch break. The current time
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 3: is approximately twelve forty I would also like to state
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: on the record that regarding the cameras that missus Porter,
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: because the amined previously concerning the two Minox cameras, there
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: is no confusion on the record. The Mineox, which was
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 3: not part of the material in the National Art Chives
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 3: and has serial number two three three nine three oh three,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 3: is approximately one and a half inches longer than the
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 3: one which is currently in the National Archives. At this time,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: we would take a break for lunch.
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: So the Mineox three was referred to as Exhibit D eighty,
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: which was the designation given to Michael Pain's Minox, but
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: supposedly D eighty had been returned to Pain and by
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: this time had been stolen according to Michael Payne by
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: the time of the HSCA.
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he said five years after right.
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 3: Definitely, it was a burglary. Somebody broke into his house
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 3: and took all of his camera equipment, including the Mineox,
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: which was returned to him a week later after it
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 3: was either turned over to them by Michael or Ruth.
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 3: Different reports, they different things. So how could this be?
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: Could it be that the Oswald Monox had became D
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: eighty once the Pain mineox had been released from evidence?
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 3: That's certainly what it sounds like to me, Joe, Yeah,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 3: very possibly, or else, how in the hell wouldnar have it?
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean unless they got back the stolen one
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: from Pain somehow, right, I don't know.
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, either way, one thing for sure, there is a
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 3: Mineox three in the archive today, and according to Michael Payne,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 3: he was returned his mineox and it was stolen approximately
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: five years later.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: Also he got that mineox back after we're stolen.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: After five Yeah.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: No, okay, I thought this was pretty said, I'm sorry.
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: No, After Ruth or him allegedly gave it to the
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: FBI in January of nineteen sixty four, he was returned
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: back to them like a week later, and then pains
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: those five years after that it was stolen it along
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 3: with a bunch of other shit, right.
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: It would have been the beginning of nineteen sixty nine ish.
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Hence why the one in Nara could not be
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 3: Michael Pain's unless they broke into his house and stole.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: That's what I was saying. Did the subhow acquire the stolen.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 3: Which I doubt?
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 3: Uh, all right, let the craziness ensue.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: This is like the wallats Man.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So here's the story. In February of nineteen ninety
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: nine John Armstrong. I asked John if he could determine
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 3: what model Monox is in the Archives, because he had
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: actually seen it and handled it with his own two
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 3: eyes and his own two hands, And after consulting one
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 3: of his photographs of the Archives camera, he informed me
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 3: that it was, in fact a Model three. The camera
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: was housed in an animal box and was identified as
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: d L three, not D eighty. He then told me
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: that when he handled the camera, it was far heavier
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 3: than a Monox should be. When he tried to look
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: inside the camera to check its serial number, he found
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 3: that it had been filled with some substance that prohibited
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 3: its being fully opened. Perhaps this explains why mister Wolf
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 3: did not state the serial number of the Monox three
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 3: when he showed it to Marino. Interesting. So this sounds
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 3: a lot to me like Joe. They had this Minox
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 3: camera from Oswald, right, they pulled the film out of it,
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 3: the serial numbers inside the camera, but they like super
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 3: glued damn thing shut or filled it with something like
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: a cement type thing is what Armstrong referred to it as.
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: So they couldn't tell the difference based on the serial number.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so nobody could check the serial number to tell
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 3: whose it was, right, got it interesting? Yes? Since the
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 3: serial number is located inside the Mineox where the film
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 3: is loaded, the FBI had to open the camera to
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 3: determine that Pains Monox was number two seven two five nine.
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 3: Excuse me, and we know the detective Rose opened the Monox,
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 3: he discovered an Oswald's seabag, but it had a roll
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 3: of film inside, so he could not see the serial
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 3: number at the time, which makes sense. That seems to
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 3: indicate that the camera and the archives had been sealed
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: shut after the film had been removed and taken into evidence. However,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: a check of the Minox serial number showed the camera
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: two seven two five nine should be a Model two
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: Minox and not a Model three that the FBI claimed
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: they'd received from the Pains Model two. Serial numbers ranged
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 3: from two zero, three seven nine to three one five
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 3: zero zero, while Model three serial numbers started with three
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: one two seventy five and ended with five eight four
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 3: nine nine. The Model III, first manufactured in nineteen forty eight,
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: was never officially imported or sold in the United States
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 3: to the public. Ever.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 1: Wow, there was no Amazon back then. Ladies and gentlemen,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: you cannot order the sunlight.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: Bardwell Odems one three one sixty four report states that
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: painesmin Ox was not working at the time because quote
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 3: someone bent the shutter by pulling the lens out too far,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: and to the best of his knowledge, it is not
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: now in working condition. What is interesting about this description
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: of the damage is that the lens cannot be pulled
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 3: out since it is contained within the camera, but the
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: rear element of the lens does move back and forth
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: inside the film chamber as the film is advanced and
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: the shutter is cocked. A technical note here, the rear
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: element of the lens actually presses up against the film
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 3: as the photo is taken, and when you advance the
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: film by pulling the camera apart, the lens moves away
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: from the film to allow it to move freely. One
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: of the differences between a Minox two and a Mineox
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: three is actually the lens itself. The Model two had
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 3: a five element lens, which sometimes calls scratches on the
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 3: film because it extended a fraction too deep into the
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 3: film chamber. Minosra had replaced the lens on the Model
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 3: three with a four element design which did not extend
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 3: quite as far into the film chamber, allowing the film
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 3: to advance freely without scratches. Could this actually be the
• 1:25:43
  Speaker 3: problem Michael Pain was describing to the FBI. If the
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 3: lens jammed in the picture taking position, it would conceivably
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 3: prevent the advanced mechanism from operating. This would be consistent
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 3: with the damaged camera apparently in the archives. But if
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 3: the camera in the archives is a pain camera and
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 3: that camera was jam shut when Michael Payne turned it
• 1:26:02
  Speaker 3: over to the FBI in sixty four, then the serial
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 3: number recorded on Odam's inventory is a fabrication. Keep in
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 3: mind that the model number two seven two five nine
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 3: traces back to a Model two and not a Model
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 3: three that is in the archives. Could it be that
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: number two seven two five nine was actually a Model
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: two found among Oswald's possessions by Detective Rose. Right, Joe,
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 3: all right, so let's get to the aj Weberman.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Can I read a comment or two? Sir? Sure? And
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: actually I want to thank mister Perpetual Concepts for his
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: ten dollars super tut here wallets and Minnock's.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 3: Whoo hell yeah, yeah, thank you sir, coming through?
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah for sure, And Sally said a little bit ago,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: Doug was talking about an FBI document last year on
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: Quick Hits and didn't know how or didn't know what
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: Q five was in the dock, and it led me
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: down the path to the Midnock's camera.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: HM slacker.
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: Dan said, howdy dudes, hello Dan, how are you James?
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: The whole Midnock camera thing is a real farcas and uh,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: sir shot the lot had to go to work, but
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 1: loves the show and it's going to catch the last
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 1: half next week, but we're hoping probably later tonight.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you're going to wait till next week, bro,
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah you can catch it tomorrow.
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah or during work. Okay, Uh so Weberman, what did
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: he have to say?
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 3: According to Weberman, two roles of Minox film that were
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 3: taken with Michael Paines Minox camera contained photos of a
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 3: trip to Europe. The role that was not taken with
• 1:28:09
  Speaker 3: Michael Paine's camera seemed to have been photographed in either
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 3: Kimoi or Matt Sue photograph. Where is that fuck off?
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 3: I know, sorry, never heard of either one. I have
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: no idea where that is? Okay, approximately forty miles of
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: Tugi in Japan.
• 1:28:34
  Speaker 1: It has to be in Eastern Asia or Pacific or somewhere.
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 3: The photographs depicted several marines horsing around on a large
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: military vessel, shot of a tanker and LST Dash eight
• 1:28:50
  Speaker 3: four or five p whatever that is, shots of an
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 3: island from offshore, shots entering at harbor, Asian young Asian
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: children walking past a heavily fortified military base, a Chinese
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 3: funeral passing the perimeter of the base, and a photo
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 3: of Oswald with an M sixteen. Now, obviously, a picture
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 3: of Oswald with an M sixteen rifle is not going
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 3: to be found on Michael Pain's minox film.
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, yeah, yeah, look look at this our fucking chot.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 3: I love them.
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 1: Opto Economist Islands off of China, MK, Taiwan Islands, James
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 1: Smith Two Islands north of Taiwan.
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you killing it, killing it.
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: We love our chat for sure, Thank you guys.
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 3: Now, of course Weberman alleged, you know, Jerry Hemming was
• 1:29:52
  Speaker 3: in some of these Minox photos, And what Jerry Hemming
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 3: said about it is that in January nineteen ninety nine,
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 3: I received photo copies of the Mineox photos from the
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 3: National Archives. Each sheet of paper had one photo on
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 3: it except for one page. The main photo on that
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 3: page appears to be one of the offshore photos that
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: Weberman described, with a couple of marines in the foreground
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: included on that page with two additional photos showing a
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: serviceman wearing the same kind of hat as one of
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 3: the marines in the main photo. Immediately it struck me
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 3: that the serviceman bore a resemblance to Jerry Patrick Heming.
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: The notion that Oswald might have taken photos of Hemming
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: with his Mineox while still overseas bore serious implications. After
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 3: posting the photos on the JFK research forum, I heard
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 3: from a well respected researcher who suggested I contact Himming,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 3: who had learned about the photos from Nold Twyman. Now
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 3: that wasn't what I HEMMI said. Here was what Heming
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 3: said sorry.
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 3: He acknowledged that he was familiar with Mineox photos of him,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 3: but that they were not taken by Oswald. He informed
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 3: me that Howard K. Davis had a mine Ox and
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 3: used it to take photos of their camps, and it
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 3: was Davis who took the photos in question. They were
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 3: not off the coast of some random fucking islands in
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 3: Taiwan or whatever. They were at the training camp in Florida.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 3: And you know a lot of them did wear their
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 3: old fatigues to train in, so it may have looked
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 3: like a military photo, right, Yeah.
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: And I think Robie, you had a bunch of people,
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: like some former Army, some former Marines, that were like
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: joined together ideologically. So that hat that we were talking
• 1:31:43
  Speaker 1: about earlier, I think someone said it was a marine hat.
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 1: I started the comment, but I lost it. It doesn't
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: necessarily mean anything, right, because it's it's a group of
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: different people coming together.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Howard David had a Monox and usually take photos
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: of their camps, and with Davis who took the photos
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: in question. And by the way, Howard K. Davis was
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 3: an FBI in formant. Me and Doug out of that shit,
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 3: A couple of years ago, even though Doug refused to
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 3: say it and public, I will say it all day long,
• 1:32:19
  Speaker 3: and yeah, he's still alive. Apparently, Heming told me that
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 3: the mineox camera found an Oswald's sea bag originally came
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 3: from Life reporter Richard Dick Billings, who later authored the
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 3: HSCA report and co authored Robert Blake's The Plot to
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 3: Kill the President. Billings, who reported on the commando raids
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: for Life magazine, gave the Mineox to Heming to photograph
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 3: their various missions. Heming, in turn gave the camera to
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 3: Eddie Bayo, who disappeared with nine commandos while on a
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 3: raid in a Cuba. Heming refused to speculate on how
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 3: that mineox got from a dead Eddie Bio to Cuba
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: to Oswald, because how can you speculate on that? I mean,
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 3: who the hell knows. Haman did speculate that the military
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 3: photos were not taken overseas, but more likely they were
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 3: photos taken during one of their Cuba missions. Heming did
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 3: claim that Oswald did possess a mine ox when he
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: was stationed at Al Toro, and then he used it
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 3: to take photos at the Cuban consulate in Monterey Park,
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: having said that he knows that Oswald did not take
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: that camera to Russia, but he has no idea what
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 3: happened to that camera. Interesting, so we've explored that.
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: James Smith said Oswalt would have had an M one
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: in the Marines Garland rifle, not in sixteen and I
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: and while I agree, you can't rule out that you
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: want to post with one for some reason.
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, either way, it doesn't matter what gun Oswald had
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 3: in a picture. The fact that he's in a picture
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 3: developed from an undeveloped role of Monox camera film. That
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 3: was it Nara that allegedly belonged to Michael pain yep,
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 3: which cannot be if it has a picture of Oswald
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 3: and it had to come from one of Oswald's camera rolls.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I'm sorry sorry, Scott said. Weberman has done
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 1: some interesting things, but he is a nut.
• 1:34:46
  Speaker 3: He is a nut.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: Dylan and garbel lydgy I said that wrong, but ironically
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 1: I might have talked to him somewhat recently, but we
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: decided against it. Tune into members only for the details
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: on that.
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: Hm m hm, yes, yes.
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 1: Hey Timothy Ryan, how are you, sir?
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 3: Late?
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: As always, it's okay, better late than ever. And Paula Jane,
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: how are you? And uh, of course one of our superspies,
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: one of our most loyal listeners. Happy Friday, Paula. And
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 1: Paula was in New York. Rob. She didn't help me up,
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: she didn't hit me up.
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 3: Well, she didn't have she didn't have a change of clothes.
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 1: So I saw that. It's the worst. Yeah. Yeah, when
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: you fly and they and you, they lose your luggage,
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: there's nothing worse. So I hope they found it by now, Paula.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 1: I really do, and.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 3: So Earl Goles wrote an article in nineteen seventy eight
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 3: for the Dallas Morning News I believe it was, and
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 3: he tells the story of you Weberman obtaining or the
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: developed film from the Minox cameras, and he goes into
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 3: the problems with the Minox camera, which is very interesting.
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 3: Back in nineteen seventy eight, he says photographs developed from
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 3: Minox by camera film found among Lee Harvey Oswald's possessions
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 3: have been released by the FBI, after being suppressed for
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: almost fifteen years. About twenty five images shot in foreign
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: countries on two roles from the miniature German made camera
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 3: were made available by the FBI under Freedom of Information
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 3: Act request by Alan Weberman, an independent researcher from New
• 1:36:51
  Speaker 3: York City. More than twenty prints developed from one role
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 3: shows civilian scenes apparently in Europe. Five shots from the
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 3: other role or military scenes in either the Far East
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: or Central America or Florida. A Minox camera with a
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 3: cassette film role inside disappeared from Oswald's possession after the
• 1:37:11
  Speaker 3: FBI took custody of the property in nineteen sixty three.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 3: The Bureau later tried to unsuccessfully pressure police into changing
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 3: their inventory list to read Monox light meter, not camera,
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 3: and he tells the story of Gus Rose, who said
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 3: he found the camera in Oswald's seabag at the home
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 3: of mister MSUs Payne. The FBI had indicated the two
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 3: roles it developed were found separately in ten containers with
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 3: ribbons tied around them, but House Assassinations Committee investigators recently
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 3: interviewed a former FBI agent who had custody of the
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 3: Oswald property when the camera when the camera with film
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: inside disappeared. The former agent, warrened Breeze, monitored oswald As
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 3: activities in the summer of sixty three. He came to
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 3: Dallas for two months to assist the warrant an investigation
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: of the assassination, he said, he told the news monitoring
• 1:38:05
  Speaker 3: is a word I would be reluctant to use, says Debris.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 3: I never personally met Oswald, never knowingly personally talked to him.
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 3: And I say that advisedly because who knows. I don't
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: think it happened. He may have called on the phone
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 3: and made an inquiry one time without identifying himself. You
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 3: have Debris still with the whole song and danced that
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 3: he didn't know Oz.
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 1: That's a weird comment there. Yeah.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The bureau cover letter to Weberman stated that.
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: You were brought to Dallas for two months, not the
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: weekend rob two months. I did not know that until
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: you just read it.
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. The Bureau cover letter to Weberman stated that it
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 3: had not withheld any of the photos insomuch as the
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 3: material you requested is a great historical interest. Three of
• 1:38:58
  Speaker 3: the photos taken in a military environment in either the
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 3: Far East or Central America or Florida, or made from
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 3: inside a barbed wire encampment, showing civilians walking on the
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 3: other side. Another shot was taken from a boat showing
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 3: a tanker offered anchored offshore in mountainous terrain. Oswald was
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 3: stationed in Japan as a marine in fifty seven and
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 3: fifty eight, and during that time went on a tour
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 3: of duty to Taiwan, the Philippines, Corregidor, and Indonesia. The
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 3: Monox camera was invented in the late nineteen thirties in
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 3: Latvia and later manufactured at plants in Germany. It was
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 3: about three inches long and one inch wide, that's what
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 3: she said. It was used as a spy camera by
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 3: both sides during World War Two. So yeah, all this
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 3: was It was out in the paper in nineteen seventy
• 1:39:59
  Speaker 3: eight in Dallas.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 3: Michael Paton told the News that he recalled taking photos
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 3: in Korea while he was in the army in the
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 3: early fifties and then later on a trip to Europe,
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 3: but not with a Minox camera. He couldn't remember taking
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 3: a photo of a tanker anchored offshore in mountainous terrain either.
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 3: He said, hmm interesting, right, yeah, very man, very all right, Joe,
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 3: I think that's everything with the cameras. Okay, God damn,
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 3: here we are and a forty minutes in time Flies
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: when you're talking a whole bunch of crazy shit about
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 3: the Minox camera and all of Oswall's crazy cameras. But
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: the bottom line is, before we get to you, yep,
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 3: you know, Oswald had a ship ton of camera equipment.
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 3: He referred to him itself as a photographic expert, a
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 3: photographer interesting in photography on several of his applications to
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 3: jobs unemployment agencies. And we saw the kind of work
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 3: that he was doing. Yeah, so very interesting stuff.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and they say Jaggers was his most consistent job.
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And where the fuck do you learn how to
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 3: do this shit?
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because those those there's like negative plaques and the
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 3: name plates and all that oaks that is fascinating to
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 3: teach you how to do that ship you know, Yeah,
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: I tink around with and figure out.
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not messing around a power point here. And
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 1: the twenty twenties right, messing with fonts uh. And very
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: interesting that George de Moorn shield was was was part
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 1: of his font experiments or whatever you want to call it.
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: And of course I think he met him in like
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 1: end of sixty two. I think that's when ja Walton
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: Moore asked him to keep an eye on Oswalt, and
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: they started helping Leeam Marina.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: It seems to me that they were trying to do
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: some covering up after the fact with Michael Paine's camera.
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: And but like you showed in the photo at the beginning,
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: he had a few in different cases. And what three binoculars?
• 1:42:35
  Speaker 1: Why do you need three binoculars?
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 3: Four?
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: Four?
• 1:42:41
  Speaker 3: And a tell us? Good?
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah? And that that light right, that light like that
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: big flash bowl thing I think as well.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 3: Later Rus said that Ansko flash was hers.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: Oh right, just as you said when the.
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 3: Pains were there. When these guys are going through the garage,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 3: Gus Rose said, all this ship was found in Oswald's
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 3: sea bag. You know what I mean. When they moved
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 3: Oswald's ship from New Orleans, right, they packed it on
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 3: Ruth Payne's car, and Ruth and Marina took it back
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 3: to Ruth's house. Oswald stayed in New Orleans and then
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 3: went to Mexico and all that jazz, and when he
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: came back, he didn't he didn't, he didn't move into
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 3: Ruth Payne's house. So now if you're packing stuff to
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 3: take with you, and Oswald's didn't have a lot. It
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 3: wasn't like they had a ton of shit. Everything they
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 3: owned could fit in Ruth Payne station wagon. Okay, now,
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 3: And if that's all you got, chances are a lot
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 3: of that stuff is going to be in in suitcases
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 3: or bags or whatever. They're not just gonna have loose,
• 1:43:56
  Speaker 3: loose ship sitting, you know, sitting around everywhere. And obviously
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 3: the easiest way to pack an unpack is to put
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 3: everything in a bag. Right, It's not like Oswald's photographics
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 3: loose in the back of the in the back of
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 3: the station wagon and they unpacked it and just threw
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 3: it all around and drawers in the Ruth Pain's garage.
• 1:44:18
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm sure Oswald was very anal about his
• 1:44:21
  Speaker 3: shit and probably packed it all in bags and told
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 3: them don't fucking open them, don't go through my shit,
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 3: don't put it, don't touch my stuff, you know.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, he was a packer, and Hancock and Boiling
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: definitely established that he kept everything.
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Wow, So whatever they found and attributed to Oswald
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 3: was more than likely Oswald's and not Ruth Paints. And
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 3: like I said, Ruth Paint and Michael Payne were there
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 3: watching the cops go through all his ship, and if
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 3: any of it was theirs, they likely would have spoke
• 1:44:57
  Speaker 3: up and said, hey, that's mine.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he would think so, he would think so,
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 1: especially without a warrant the first day on a twenty
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 1: second Right, you definitely say that, right, Yeah. And I
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: don't know who wrote that handwritten letter we get permission
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 1: that was in the first picture you showed. But yeah,
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: and just how he knew to show up at that
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: time is interesting as well, right, Michael Paine does.
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was hw Hill. He was the
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 3: property inventory guy or maybe it was.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, he signed that thing at the bottom of
• 1:45:36
  Speaker 1: the Beckley thing under debris, I think, and the first
• 1:45:39
  Speaker 1: thing he showed, Yeah, I think there was Hill. Yeah,
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 1: Timothy Ryan might have the comment of the night, so
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: says James Smith. So many cameras, so little time. So yeah,
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 1: it seems to me Rob, like I said before, that
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: the are trying to almost tie up loose ends by
• 1:46:02
  Speaker 1: maybe Ruth, you know, claiming it was Michael's later on,
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: and and the whole gluing the shutter shut or whatever
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: they did with the minox, and that's in the archives now.
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know, it's crazy but.
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 3: Cray cray pray cray for shure. Yeah, but that we
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 3: hear from crazy to crazier to Joe. Have you would
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 3: like to go ahead and present your topic?
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: Sure? So of course Rob was preparing this segment on
• 1:46:42
  Speaker 1: the cameras and as I usually do, I try to
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: think of a topic that can that is a related supplement, Yes,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: supplements Rob's topic. And it wasn't my memory or or
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: a good idea. It was actually because it was a
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 1: recent email that was sent out I think six days
• 1:47:06
  Speaker 1: ago Rob, that brought my attention to another camera and
• 1:47:11
  Speaker 1: another rumor that is floating around that has to do
• 1:47:15
  Speaker 1: with the Babushka Lady Rob and her allegedly using a
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: quote gun camera aka a gun that is that's made
• 1:47:28
  Speaker 1: to look like it is a camera, but that can
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: fire some shots. And I figured we dive into this
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: a little bit. What do you say?
• 1:47:41
  Speaker 3: Yes, let's let's let's so.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: Before I get into this email here, I figured I'd
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: do a little couple slides on the Babushka Lady. This
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: is a frame from the much more It might have
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 1: been a film. I don't know if it's a still
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: or not, but you can see the Babushka lady on
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 1: the far right here with my little red arrow. That's
• 1:48:05
  Speaker 1: very obvious pointing down to her. She has a dress
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: kind of around the knees and a type of pink
• 1:48:13
  Speaker 1: scarf on. Okay, And this is another This is still
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: of the superber frame two eighty five of the Babushka
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: lady when she has the camera up to her face.
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: And as I was looking at this, rob one thing
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: came to mind.
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 3: What's that?
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: She can't be a good photographer. She has maybe twenty
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: thirty feet on her left, yet she is filming over
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: the shoulder of I believe it's.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 7: Charles grim I say it again, Barim brim right, Brent, Yes,
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 7: and a lot of you get up there beside them,
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 7: so nobody's in your freaking way, right And if you look.
• 1:49:10
  Speaker 1: At where she's aiming, she's almost aiming towards the driver,
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: who was kind of looking backwards at that point. I
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: think you have JFK kind of choking.
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 3: On leading her camera a little bit to take a
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 3: picture like.
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: Possibly possibly.
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 3: Being target. You know, you you kind of get ahead
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 3: of it a little bit, you know.
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: Per rob, if you are a decent photographer, as in
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 1: this isn't your first you know, time taking pictures. Why
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: not move a couple of feet to her left or
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: right looking at this picture to get a clearer shot.
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: It screams to me that she might not be the
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: most experienced photographer, or is there something else going on?
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 1: I do not know, So we will get into it,
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: I promise. But before we do, I figured I bring
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: up a video of the Mark Bell film.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 3: You have any music? Doesn't? It does not? It is check.
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: I double check that. Uh. And this is a credit
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: of the JFK Assassination Forum YouTube channel, which has a
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: bunch of good pictures. So I'm gonna play a couple
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: of seconds of this. I'm gonna pause it and we'll
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: give some commentary. But this is one of the films
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: that films of the bushaka lady reacting or not reacting
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: to the shots when the motorcake passes are right, I
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: see Jackie's hat there, all right, they're about to make
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: that left shots. Okay, this is the Bubuska Lady right
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: right here.
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 3: And a lot of.
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 1: Uh speculation has been talked about why everyone else was
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 1: on the ground and why she didn't respond to the
• 1:51:38
  Speaker 1: shots right.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 3: So maybe she didn't hear them because her bubushka was
• 1:51:44
  Speaker 3: covering her ears a little tight.
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 1: Well, that's what I'm saying. You never know. I mean,
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: could she have been slow, could she have been used
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: to gunshots? Could she have not even realized what was
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 1: going on? You never know?
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 3: Right everybody else, you can see dark complexing man hitting
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 3: the ground across the street, and a little bit before this,
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 3: you can see Brem and his son already on the ground.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 3: I think that's right to her right there now her left,
• 1:52:13
  Speaker 3: if you come back a little bit.
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Yeah, So she doesn't react, which is a
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: big point of contention we're going to get into there
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: she is again right as the mortar cave continues to
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: pass by her, some more cops on motorcycles, and then
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: she waits for Well, I'll wait for a second before
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: I get into that, but I am going to pull
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: up the email that was sent within a week ago
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: and talk about a theory that but bushk Lady possibly
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: had a camera gun and and yeah, I mean we
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: might debunk it, we might not, We probably will.
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 3: Let me see it here.
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: So sorry to bring up his email. So this was
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: sent by a researcher. Where's the funky Jeffrey Sunberg, and
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: I am not one hundred percent familiar with him or
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: his background, but essentially he quotes a book on the
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: assassination attempts of French I guess Prime Minister technically Charles
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: de Gaulle in the nineteen sixties, and apparently there were many, many,
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: many attempts on his life. Right, So I'm gonna skip
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 1: a little further into the email. To my surprise, especially
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: given the other event of the day, the Target to
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 1: Gall book contains a chapter attached I'll get into it
• 1:54:14
  Speaker 1: of the May nineteen sixty three attempt to kill Charles
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 1: the Gall in the in Athens that employed an oas invention,
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: a camera gun that held six bullets each tipped with
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: cyanide to chemically amplify the mechanical kinetic lethal lethalogy. I
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: said that apart from the mention of the gun, camera
• 1:54:39
  Speaker 1: and the attachment, readers from da mare Plume book, we'll
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: find the in we'll find an incidental incidental second mention
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: of the camera gun on page two forty one. Blah
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 1: blah blah. As students of the JFK assassination, the RFPA assassination,
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: we mentally turn over scenarios to explain and how shooters
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: would get into and out of the TSPD without being
• 1:55:04
  Speaker 1: remembered by the people who worked there, or how a
• 1:55:07
  Speaker 1: gun was fired into the back of RK's head in
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 1: the middle of the crowd when his ostensible assassin was
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: always many feet to his front, while daniusine he goes
• 1:55:18
  Speaker 1: into the ark thing. One should also note that a
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: camera gun features and Mary Haversticks, a woman I know
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: the commendable and eye opening book about Jerry Cobb, the
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 1: quote twin sister and aviation of June Cobb and the
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 1: person whose signature seems to be identical to that of
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: the Jerry or Jerry who signed off on the QJ
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: Win material. Haverstick devotes a number of pages to her
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: path breaking visual analysis of the Bobushka Lady and demonstrates
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 1: the oddness of this assassination figure who seems not interested
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: in getting a good frontal for graph of a smiling
• 1:56:01
  Speaker 1: JFK and Jackie as they approached, but rather u but
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: rather hid behind Charles brem even when she had physically
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: prepared herself to train her camera on the back of
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: Kennedy after he had passed During the shooting. Haverstick notes
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: Pabushka didn't flinched and dropped, didn't shelter, and neither reported
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: herself as a witness to these witness to the authorities,
• 1:56:31
  Speaker 1: nor was ever sought by them, despite her possession of
• 1:56:34
  Speaker 1: a camera being sought on film by other cameras aka
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: other people caught her taking film or pictures. The preoccupation
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 1: with Kennedy's rear seat rear suggested to Haverston Haverstick a
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: gun hidden inside the camera, and she pointed to other
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: documented guns hidden in canes, lips, cases, or cigarette packets, etc.
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: With the documented oas possession of a gun camera six
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: months before Dallas Harsix's gun camera transcends the realm of
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: the conjectural into the realm of the possible. Of course,
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: the second objection to Harstik scenario is that a bullet
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: trajectory from the Babushka accords poorly accords poorly with the
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: actual wound pattern, as now so well and so compellingly
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: and cogently documented in the mature analysis of Doctor's Mantick
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: and Chusser. But I personally question whether Bobushka's putative payload
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: was not the bullet portion of the oas cyanide to bullets,
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: but rather the cyanide supplement. Is there any chance that
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: the physical residue of the Bobushka's camera pointing effort found
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: himself in the authentic meta shrapnel fragments embedded orthogonally on
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: Kennedy's sixterior skull near the coal catholic the troubling to explain,
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: but which formed the basis for this subsequent superimposed six
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 1: point five millimeter circular object that doctor Mantick's disomeoner provided
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: to be physically preposterous dark room confection, so that that
• 1:58:30
  Speaker 1: kind of lost me a little bit rough. But I
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 1: think Harrist that goes into some of the fragments in
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: Kennedy's skull and whether that could have been the result
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: of a shot so close as like from a camera gun.
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 3: She was on the wrong side of the road for one,
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, it made sense for her to be
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 3: on the other side of the road. And if you know,
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 3: JFK is a target on the side she was on.
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 3: You know, you had to get get through Nelly, Nelly
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 3: and Jackie.
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, and and of course the head would of
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 8: course go forward and uh and the Bubushkal lady would
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 8: have been somewhat to the rear right.
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 3: So well, depending on when she shot. If she shot
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 3: as they were approaching her, she would have to get
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 3: through Nelly and Jackie. Now she waited to after the
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 3: card passed right still, you know you would have had
• 1:59:31
  Speaker 3: a pretty I mean, depending on the bullet, uh, in
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 3: the capacity of the gun. Who knows, Yeah, I would
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 3: have been a facial blowout or something. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna read one more little sentence here
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: in a side note of greater seriousness, I have to
• 1:59:50
  Speaker 1: ask myself whether the American intelligence agencies, lying upon the
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: technical expertise of their brains, trust in the well funded
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: Technical Services Division shout out David Christ who recently got
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: out of Cuba a few months after this, had not
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: alreadily already long preceded France's captain another assassination attempt. So,
• 2:00:25
  Speaker 1: and this is let me bring up my PowerPoint here,
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: the attachment to this email. And you know, I thought
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: maybe that they were going to quote this email some
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 1: oas primary resource documents. Rob. Unfortunately, they just quoted a book.
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: And the book is named Target de Gal Charles de Gall.
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: And of course it highlights the thirty one attempts of
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 1: the Life of the French President. But on chapter thirty
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: two Rob there is a very short chapter It says
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: a lethal camera. Okay, and this is a little clip
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: from that by Pierre de Maree. I hope I'm saying
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: that right as so it happened. For some days the
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: two have been discussing an inter invention developed by Captain Memon,
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: who was a good technician and practical improviser. His idea
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 1: was to insert a six point three to five millimeter
• 2:01:27
  Speaker 1: barrel into a camera. To the outward eye, the camera
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: would look perfectly normal, and it could even continue to
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: take photographs though an aperture below the lens. However, six
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: bullets impregnated with cyanide could be fired at any target selected.
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: Conde had shown very great interest in this device. I
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: think that's an oas guy who was trying to kill
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: the goal. It could be used by a tourist without
• 2:01:55
  Speaker 1: attracting attention, Okay. To Gall's visit to Athens was an
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: ideal opportunity for him to succeed where he had failed
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: at a prior assassination attempt.
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: He immediately passed word to his superiors, who gave their agreement,
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: and Meman started to construct the camera gun apparatus that
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: very day. For good measure, he even made two models. Okay. Dejectedly,
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: he watched the triumphal arrival of General Gall, who passed
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: within twelve feet of him. This in Athens, Greece. Condi
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: could only press the release of his camera, thus at
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: least obtaining a historic photograph of de Gaul offering an
• 2:02:41
  Speaker 1: ideal target. Not until the afternoon did he receive his
• 2:02:45
  Speaker 1: papers and money, enabling him to return to Brussels where
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: he could blah blah. The photographs were considered excellent. They
• 2:02:52
  Speaker 1: included one of Degall's standing in an open car, saluting
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: the crowd and presenting his August profile at the distance
• 2:02:59
  Speaker 1: of twelve feet, a sitting target even for a moderate marksman. Okay.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: The photographs and the doctor camera right, the camera made
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: into a gun were placed in a suitcase belonging to
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: one of the members of the Brussels Resistance Council. A
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: few days later, this man, of course, rob was getting
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 1: bored like all the Brussels exiles, and decided to go
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 1: out and get drunk, and in the night of the
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: suburbs got music, girls and whiskey quickly had their effect
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: on him, and a brawl started a nightclub. The police
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 1: ended up arresting him and then searching his apartment and
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: seizing this camera gun rob of course, without it ever
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: being used or without it ever being photographed. So what
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 1: are we to think of this camera on? So what
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: do we do these days? Well, we asked, ai, don't we.
• 2:04:09
  Speaker 3: Real quick? Joe? Thank you? John just became a covert operator. Excellent, excellent, sir.
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 3: Welcome aboard, Yes, welcome to the members member club.
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, you will have many fire members only episodes. We
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: catch on and and we go crazy. There are things
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 1: we can't say on the normal YouTube interwebs. So yeah,
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: uh so okay, So back to the theory. And this
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: is what Mary Haverstick says in her book is that
• 2:04:52
  Speaker 1: the Babushka lady and I'm not And she has a
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: great book about Jerry and June cop right. This is
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: separate from that theory is.
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 3: And she admits it is her and it's just a theory.
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 3: There's nothing she's basing this on other than the fact
• 2:05:09
  Speaker 3: that it could possibly feasibly be done this way.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, and and part of her her biggest suspicion is
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: that the Babushka lady didn't flinch, drop or shelter, and
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: that she never came presented herself to the authorities, or
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: allegedly the authorities never looked for her. But I'm going
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: to get to some of that in a second here.
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: But let's see. So I asked Roc. Okay, this is funny.
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: So I asked Roc, and I was like, what's up
• 2:05:46
  Speaker 1: with a camera gun in the nineteen sixties and was
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: it used to as an attempt to possibly assassinate the
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 1: Gaul by the OAS? And this is what Groc has
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: to say. Rob Groc couldn't find an image of an
• 2:06:05
  Speaker 1: OS camera gun specifically linked to the nineteen sixty three
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: assassination attempt on Charles de Gaull. The OAS was involved
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: in several attempts on De Gaul's life, most notably the
• 2:06:16
  Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two Petit Clamart attack, but there's no doc
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: documented evidence of a quote camera gun being used in
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: these events. The sources described the use of machine guns,
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: submachine guns, and automatic weapons during the nineteen sixty two ambush,
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: with no mention of a disguised camera weapon. The idea
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: of a camera gun might stem from fictional depictions like
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 1: Frederick Foresights quote The Day of the Jackal in nineteen
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 1: seventy one, which is inspired by the Petit Clomarte attack
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 1: but includes creative elements not present in the historical record
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: aka the film was not one hundred percent accurate in
• 2:07:03
  Speaker 1: the novel and it's nineteen seventy three film adaptation, the
• 2:07:06
  Speaker 1: assassin uses a custom rifle, not a camera gun. Yes,
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 1: and I did search for that. So I asked a
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: little bit more about it, and I said, so, what
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: type of camera guns were around in the nineteen sixties, right?
• 2:07:23
  Speaker 1: So GROC said they couldn't find a verified image of
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: any but a KGB twenty two caliber disguised camera gun
• 2:07:33
  Speaker 1: in the available sources or through a direct search. The
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 1: concept of a twenty two caliber quote sticker gun disguised
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: as a camera is mentioned in some contexts, notably on
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 1: the Deadliest War wiki Warrior Wiki I'll get to that
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 1: in a second, which describes it as a single shot
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: firearm or the bullet breaks through the camera's lens with
• 2:07:58
  Speaker 1: optics used for site. It references a nineteen forty six
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: attempt on Olga Rocco using a shotgun camera but doesn't
• 2:08:06
  Speaker 1: provide a specific image. Okay, so again we can't. We
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: still can't find an actable photo of a gun like this,
• 2:08:18
  Speaker 1: but we'll get there. I have a couple coming up here.
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 3: Other sources.
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: Other sources like Business Insider and Smithsonian magazines showcase KGB
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: spy gadgets, including cameras hidden in cigarette packs or purses,
• 2:08:34
  Speaker 1: but none it's explicitly depict a twenty two caliber fireum
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 1: disguised as a camera. The closest visual reference are to
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: other disguise KGB weapons, like the poisoned pistol in a
• 2:08:47
  Speaker 1: cigarette pack or a lipstick gun, which doesn't match the
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: camera gun description. The lack of a clear image may
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: stem from the rarity of such devices, their classification, or
• 2:08:59
  Speaker 1: their fiction exaggeration in media like The Day of the
• 2:09:03
  Speaker 1: Jackal movie and book. Since no authentic image is available,
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: GROC is offering to generate an artistic representation of what
• 2:09:13
  Speaker 1: a KGB twenty two caliber camera gun might look like
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: based on the described design, which is awesome. Eg. Compact
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: camera with a lens concealing a barrel. Would you like
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: me to provide proceed with generating that image? What do
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: you think I sent to Grock Rom of course, yes,
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: proceeded Grock. So first I found an image of the
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: KGB single shot twenty two caliber stinger gun and Rob,
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: this is not very subtle, no, I mean.
• 2:09:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, from the offset, it could it could
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 3: appear if one wasn't looking too closely at you, that
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 3: you would simply filming. The butt gives it away. The
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 3: big wooden stock, it just kind of gives it away
• 2:10:08
  Speaker 3: just a little bit.
• 2:10:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, not to mention, Rob. It's a single shot and
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: it fires through the lens, which cannot help accuracy, right,
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: And it classifies this as a mid range, which I
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 1: guess if you look through the you know, the site,
• 2:10:24
  Speaker 1: pretend you're taking a picture, it might have a somewhat
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: decent range.
• 2:10:29
  Speaker 3: But for me it.
• 2:10:31
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't be my preferred assassination weapon. That's standing on either
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: side of I'm sure.
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 3: This is a disguised movie camera, like, not a regular
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 3: film camera. This is a movie moving picture camera.
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and one shot, I mean you have no other
• 2:10:53
  Speaker 1: and a moving target, you have no other opportunity. I
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: mean that's a stretch for me. So what ad Grock
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: come up with? Actually, the one the left looked like
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: something you showed before, right, yeah, and on the right,
• 2:11:09
  Speaker 1: I guess this is based on that six six point
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: three five millimeter thing that the oas allegedly based on
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 1: this random book created to kill the goll But I
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 1: mean that looks better than the previous one. But interesting
• 2:11:30
  Speaker 1: that AI came up with this picture based on the description,
• 2:11:32
  Speaker 1: right yeah, kind of cool. Yeah, and I know someone
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: earlier in the chat said, can we use AI to
• 2:11:43
  Speaker 1: help with photo identification? I think the comment was referring
• 2:11:47
  Speaker 1: to prayer men, and yeah, if you have the money
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: and ability technical ability to do that, yeah, Rob, and
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 1: I might not.
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 3: Well, I found Joe an actual toy from nineteen sixty five. Okay,
• 2:12:03
  Speaker 3: and let me pop it up here. This is Remember
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 3: this is a toy, Folcus. This is not real, but
• 2:12:10
  Speaker 3: it's a toy camera gun.
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 1: Check this out, Okay.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 3: Now, from this side it looks legit, right, looks like
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 3: a little shitty movie camera, right.
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 3: From the other side, it's of course Agent zero movie shot, right,
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 3: and it looks a little bit more sinister on this side.
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 3: And it had a barrel that you could pull out
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 3: and extend, right, Yeah, I see, yeah, now that remember
• 2:12:49
  Speaker 3: this is a toy that was released in nineteen sixty five,
• 2:12:57
  Speaker 3: made from metal and plastic, of course, but you could
• 2:13:01
  Speaker 3: see conceptually how something like this could work. The problem
• 2:13:07
  Speaker 3: is the Babushka Lady had a box camera, not unlike, uh,
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 3: something like the Imperial Reflex. Now, if you believe Beverly Oliver,
• 2:13:22
  Speaker 3: she had a Yeshika model movie camera that hadn't been
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 3: released to the public yet that you did not look
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 3: anything like a box camera.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: Ye.
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 3: But if you, if you, if you look close up
• 2:13:36
  Speaker 3: at some of the images of the bubusk Lady, you
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 3: can clearly see that what she had was a box
• 2:13:43
  Speaker 3: type looking camera, not a motion picture like not a
• 2:13:48
  Speaker 3: moving picture camera.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 3: So, I don't know if Alex sent you any shots
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 3: of the camera that the Bubushka Lady actually had, but
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 3: this would be a good time to show them if
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 3: you did.
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, he sent me a couple pictures. I'm gonna
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 1: get into it a second that are very interesting. But
• 2:14:08
  Speaker 1: before I do, I am going to sure last thing
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: that Groc said about why no camera gun and os
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 1: plots Number one practicality the oss oas favorite reliable, high
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: powered weapons for ambushes, not single shot disguised devices. Right,
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 1: This would be more of like a spy one shot
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 1: d l right type of.
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 3: Well, look, man, if you can, if you can turn
• 2:14:44
  Speaker 3: a tube lipstick into a gun, or a pack of
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 3: cigarettes into a gun, you could easily configure into a
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 3: box camera. The elements of a gun just defact that
• 2:14:57
  Speaker 3: we don't have any available for picture. It doesn't mean
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 3: that they didn't exist.
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 1: I can't agree more. And that's going to segue into
• 2:15:06
  Speaker 1: the next point. Availability. Custom camera guns were rare, expensive
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 1: and typically restricted to intelligence agencies AKA. They would have
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 1: had to make them custom right for a certain operation.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 3: Q would have had to make them, Yes, yes, yea.
• 2:15:29
  Speaker 1: So. But then I found something very interesting on the
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: Babushka lady. Because we know Rob, there's a bunch of
• 2:15:36
  Speaker 1: theories whether she was a raw child or a CI agent.
• 2:15:42
  Speaker 1: I know your podcast partner Doug has an interesting theory
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: he told me about a year ago. But he told
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: me not telling me one so I won't say anything
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: about it. But let's see what Gary Mack had to
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 1: say to the AAARB about the publish lady. Okay Mac.
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 1: What I have found living here in Dallas and talking
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: with people is that there are a lot of people
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 1: in Dallas area who for one reason or another just
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 1: would prefer not to come forward. I learned a story
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago. You know, this is a
• 2:16:20
  Speaker 1: few weeks ago in November ninety four, right, so October
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 1: ninety four, right somewhere in that range. A retired Kodak
• 2:16:31
  Speaker 1: executive remembered that while they were processing Abraham's a Pruder's
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 1: film out in the Dallas office out by love Field,
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: that a woman had come in and this woman in
• 2:16:44
  Speaker 1: her late thirties, and again, Bubushka lady is I think
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 1: Beverly Oliver was seventeenth at the time. People think Bushka
• 2:16:52
  Speaker 1: lady is in her thirties.
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 3: If not forties, okay or older?
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, a brunette who had taken a picture of
• 2:16:59
  Speaker 1: the assassination seen and her picture was the first one
• 2:17:01
  Speaker 1: out of the processor. And they were working on this
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 1: because it was quicker to do stills than it was
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 1: moving film. He didn't catch her name, but he stood
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: next to her while she was explaining her story to
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: some of the federal investigators who were already there right
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 1: monitoring the superbor film processing. She was running from Main
• 2:17:25
  Speaker 1: Street up to Elm Street across the grass. Realized she
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: wasn't going to get there close enough, stopped and took
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: a picture. In the foreground were some people standing on
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: the south curve of Elm Street. The Kennedy limousine was
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: directly behind them. Directly behind the limousine was the book
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: Depository building. When the picture came out of the processor,
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: the very first thing I noticed was that the exposure
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 1: was terrific, but the focus was way way off. The
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 1: picture was virtually useless, and the lady was told that, well,
• 2:18:02
  Speaker 1: she apparently went home, and whether anyone even got her
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 1: name or that is unknown. If the story is true,
• 2:18:10
  Speaker 1: and I have no reason, Gary Mack says to doubt it,
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: the man we saw him out, he did not seek
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 1: us out. Today, if we can locate that slide and
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: this is the color slide, computer enhancement can return it
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: literally to almost the best clarity you could have had
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: at the time. So Gary Mack is saying that this
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 1: alleged Bibushka lady, who was getting her film developed at
• 2:18:38
  Speaker 1: around the same time the Superber film was, was so
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 1: off and that breaks me back rob to my initial
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: observation of her not being the greatest photographer. Was so
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 1: off and so out of focus that none of the
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: authorities gave it much attention. If the story is true,
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: and I'm sorry, of course, back in those days nothing
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 1: like that existed. They're talking about computer enhancement. The Kodak
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 1: executive's name is Jack Harrison. Jack said they were pushing
• 2:19:13
  Speaker 1: the technicians very hard to do whatever you can to
• 2:19:16
  Speaker 1: sharpen the picture and improve it. But at the end
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 1: they just said, hey, there's nothing we could do with
• 2:19:21
  Speaker 1: this picture. So here is a woman with a potentially
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: important photograph. And Rob remember where she's facing. She's facing
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: towards the grassy knoll. Right, yeah, she's facing literally towards
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 1: the grassy knoll. So here is a woman with a
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: potentially important i'll add, potentially groundbreaking photograph, a still photograph.
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: What is especially interesting to me is that from the
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 1: description of her position what the picture shows, she may
• 2:19:52
  Speaker 1: very well be the real Babushka Lady. This is an
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: area in the research community that is very controversial. Right
• 2:20:00
  Speaker 1: at this point, and without going into any great detail,
• 2:20:04
  Speaker 1: I do not believe that Beverly Oliver is the Babushka Lady,
• 2:20:08
  Speaker 1: or let me rephrase that that she certainly could have been.
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 1: But the rest of the story. Her story is a fabrication.
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 1: This is my personal belief based on the work I've done.
• 2:20:19
  Speaker 1: What has happened, though, Gary continues, apparently, is the story
• 2:20:23
  Speaker 1: from Jack Harrison that this woman existed. She has a
• 2:20:27
  Speaker 1: photograph that could have some important answers. It is probably
• 2:20:32
  Speaker 1: sitting in a shoe box somewhere in her closet where
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: her grandchildren sons or daughter's closet, and she and they
• 2:20:41
  Speaker 1: have no idea. And how do you find a woman
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: like that? How do you get people to come forward?
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 1: Maybe your work of the arb will do that. So
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 1: what he's saying is that because her pictures were so
• 2:20:58
  Speaker 1: bad that no and paid any attention to it, and
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: she just kind of waved it off and it's sitting
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 1: somewhere randomly.
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 3: That certainly sounds much more plausible than the alternative theory.
• 2:21:13
  Speaker 1: Yes, I one hundred percent agree with that.
• 2:21:16
  Speaker 3: This woman is trying to catch up to the limousine
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 3: and she stops at the last second, points and shoes,
• 2:21:22
  Speaker 3: doesn't give the camera time to focus.
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Okham's razor. It makes the most sense bye far.
• 2:21:31
  Speaker 1: And she didn't know she has anything, But it gives
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 1: me hope that you know, some people in Dallas. Her
• 2:21:39
  Speaker 1: ancestors have this photo somewhere and with AI it could
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 1: possibly be refocused.
• 2:21:49
  Speaker 3: Depends on depends on how bad it is. But right,
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 3: whether or not you ever get a contingency to agree
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 3: on anything concerning that photo?
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: Right? And would it even show any part of the
• 2:22:03
  Speaker 1: picket fence where you could possibly tell anything? Of course
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: that's all speculation.
• 2:22:07
  Speaker 3: Who knows, but James, Joe awesome, fine buddy.
• 2:22:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So essentially this email has been making the rounds,
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 1: and we know, you know, some crazy theories make the
• 2:22:24
  Speaker 1: rounds now and then. And not to impugne miss have
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: her stick's work in regards to you know, June Cobb
• 2:22:34
  Speaker 1: or anything. But it's a stretch for me that this
• 2:22:39
  Speaker 1: woman who couldn't even time her photograph and was somehow
• 2:22:46
  Speaker 1: involved in the assassination. So I'm going to follow up
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 1: on your comment earlier Alpha sixty six, Mike, did I
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 1: consult mister Alex Harris with this information before the episode?
• 2:23:06
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Rob?
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 3: I already know the answer. Go, it wouldn't be fair
• 2:23:11
  Speaker 3: to me especially Yes, yes, there was my da to
• 2:23:14
  Speaker 3: tell you you're get in touch with it, I guess.
• 2:23:21
  Speaker 1: So here we have here this is the photographs of
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: a Dallas Times Harold photographer named William Allen. And again,
• 2:23:35
  Speaker 1: Alex Harris is really just such a great source when
• 2:23:40
  Speaker 1: it comes to this, because I just told him what
• 2:23:42
  Speaker 1: I was looking for it and he goes, oh, yeah,
• 2:23:44
  Speaker 1: William album. He came into Dealey Plaza around twelve forty.
• 2:23:47
  Speaker 1: He took one hundred and fifty photographs and it's all
• 2:23:52
  Speaker 1: over the place. This is he said, allegedly around photo
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 1: eighty of his one or two fifty shot roll. He
• 2:24:02
  Speaker 1: had a few roles of film. Right, you could see
• 2:24:06
  Speaker 1: on the left here Rob, Babushka lady, right, I'm certainly.
• 2:24:11
  Speaker 1: And on the right side, oh, here we go, here
• 2:24:15
  Speaker 1: Babushka Lady, which is a more further out shot. Rights,
• 2:24:21
  Speaker 1: she has crossed Elms Street. And you might ask yourself, Rob,
• 2:24:26
  Speaker 1: what time is this photo? Well, Alex had actually synced
• 2:24:38
  Speaker 1: up other photographs from different photographers from the right here
• 2:24:43
  Speaker 1: that looked towards the The clock on the top of
• 2:24:47
  Speaker 1: the TSBD twelve forty is the timestamp on this. So
• 2:24:54
  Speaker 1: about ten minutes after the assassination, the Bubushka lady has
• 2:24:57
  Speaker 1: crossed Elm Street. She's down the the other side she
• 2:25:00
  Speaker 1: went up kind of with the crowd towards the grassy
• 2:25:02
  Speaker 1: knoll and then came back down a little bit. It's
• 2:25:08
  Speaker 1: about twelve forty. It doesn't seem to me if you're
• 2:25:12
  Speaker 1: really involved in a plot in the assassination to hang
• 2:25:18
  Speaker 1: around at this point. There's chaos everywhere. You use that
• 2:25:21
  Speaker 1: opportunity if you're even a decent operator covert operator pun
• 2:25:28
  Speaker 1: intended to slip away.
• 2:25:31
  Speaker 3: Right, You don't your camera in your hand like that
• 2:25:35
  Speaker 3: for of the world to see. You probably put it
• 2:25:37
  Speaker 3: in her pocket or something.
• 2:25:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so yeah, why hang around unless you're I mean,
• 2:25:44
  Speaker 1: I guess you could make an argument and she's photographing
• 2:25:47
  Speaker 1: the aftermath. I don't see that. If you're part of
• 2:25:50
  Speaker 1: a plot, you get out of there during the chaos.
• 2:25:52
  Speaker 3: Right, Oh, definitely make a camera go.
• 2:25:55
  Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, So I want to thank mister Alex
• 2:26:02
  Speaker 1: Harris for sending me some of this stuff, and it
• 2:26:07
  Speaker 1: just it's interesting because we touched on this a little
• 2:26:11
  Speaker 1: in the members only. I think you got this email
• 2:26:13
  Speaker 1: and afforded to me about this coming up again with
• 2:26:20
  Speaker 1: the camera gun, and it's been an email and it's
• 2:26:23
  Speaker 1: had an Education Forum thread, and I thought it would
• 2:26:26
  Speaker 1: go well with your segment of exploring cameras to kind
• 2:26:30
  Speaker 1: of debunk the fact that I think I am ninety
• 2:26:34
  Speaker 1: nine point nine percent sure that the Babushka lady did
• 2:26:37
  Speaker 1: not have a camera gun and that most likely she
• 2:26:43
  Speaker 1: was just some random person that probably didn't want to
• 2:26:45
  Speaker 1: get involved in shit developed her her film. It was
• 2:26:51
  Speaker 1: probably terrible and it's probably sitting in some drawer in
• 2:26:55
  Speaker 1: Dallas or Shreevepoord or somewhere.
• 2:26:58
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 2:27:01
  Speaker 1: Ah, so interesting shit, right, totally.
• 2:27:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of camera.
• 2:27:10
  Speaker 1: Shenanigans going on, for sure. I'm going to catch up
• 2:27:16
  Speaker 1: on some comments here. Yes, sir uh oh, Paula said
• 2:27:24
  Speaker 1: earlier she got her bag just in time to bring
• 2:27:28
  Speaker 1: it home.
• 2:27:29
  Speaker 3: Oh no, oh no, it didn't totally lose it altogether.
• 2:27:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. I'm sure all the either dresses or
• 2:27:39
  Speaker 1: outfits she had planned for maybe a nice signed out
• 2:27:42
  Speaker 1: in New York City, she had to wear I Love
• 2:27:46
  Speaker 1: NY T shirt.
• 2:27:50
  Speaker 3: And a whole new wardrobe. She needed a whole nother
• 2:27:52
  Speaker 3: suitcase to come back from New York with.
• 2:27:54
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's an excuse to shop, Paula if nothing else. Yeah,
• 2:28:02
  Speaker 1: then so the okay, James says, so the inventor was os.
• 2:28:15
  Speaker 1: It's reference that the OAS had a gun like.
• 2:28:17
  Speaker 3: This, I do find yeah feasibly Again, you can make
• 2:28:25
  Speaker 3: a camera, a box camera into a gun. Anybody could anyway.
• 2:28:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And the email said the CIA would have been
• 2:28:35
  Speaker 1: much more equipped to build a device like this. That's say,
• 2:28:39
  Speaker 1: you know, French intelligence.
• 2:28:41
  Speaker 3: Or especially using a box camera. I mean, you could
• 2:28:43
  Speaker 3: just gut the camera, stick a gun in the box,
• 2:28:48
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean, take the lens out and
• 2:28:51
  Speaker 3: point it and shoot right. You have to make some
• 2:28:55
  Speaker 3: crazy mechanical contraption, you know what I'm saying, Robert.
• 2:28:58
  Speaker 1: But how close would you have to be if you could, say,
• 2:29:01
  Speaker 1: assume that Pubushka lady had a camera gun. Say she's
• 2:29:05
  Speaker 1: what twenty thirty feet away from the president as he
• 2:29:08
  Speaker 1: passes by. One shot, a couple of shots. Maybe you
• 2:29:13
  Speaker 1: say it's tipped with cyani and whatever. Doesn't seem like
• 2:29:19
  Speaker 1: the most efficient way.
• 2:29:21
  Speaker 3: No, I mean I think that theory can pretty much
• 2:29:23
  Speaker 3: be tossed aside.
• 2:29:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too.
• 2:29:30
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, my crooked wan is back to what
• 2:29:39
  Speaker 3: it's been months. Contrary to popular belief, it is not crooked.
• 2:29:47
  Speaker 3: It is straight, is an arrow, it's not not banana shape.
• 2:29:55
  Speaker 3: It is straight as an arrow, Yeah, like the mighty
• 2:29:59
  Speaker 3: hammer of thor Yeah.
• 2:30:02
  Speaker 1: Uh NK says. Outlier theory is that she was Marita Lorenz. Well,
• 2:30:10
  Speaker 1: Marina Lorenz never said that for whether it's worth or
• 2:30:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sorry, her daughter h.
• 2:30:19
  Speaker 3: Never said Yeah, I think that's a crazy talk. Yeah,
• 2:30:24
  Speaker 3: because I think her story is they they took her
• 2:30:26
  Speaker 3: back to Miami. She didn't hang around in Dallas.
• 2:30:30
  Speaker 1: Well, if you believe her story, you know everyone was transferred,
• 2:30:34
  Speaker 1: you know, in cars, not knowing their their target, you know,
• 2:30:38
  Speaker 1: given it to them for the last second type of thing.
• 2:30:41
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, but they sent her back according to her story, Yeah,
• 2:30:49
  Speaker 3: shape like Elm Street, very sharp left turn. But you
• 2:30:58
  Speaker 3: know what, they can still hit that spot.
• 2:31:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And you know when it comes to the
• 2:31:04
  Speaker 1: Babushka lady, I was thinking about this, What is the
• 2:31:10
  Speaker 1: percentage of people we know and can identify and deal
• 2:31:13
  Speaker 1: with pousa? It has to be like ninety eight percent
• 2:31:15
  Speaker 1: almost everyone we can identify it, right, you look at
• 2:31:20
  Speaker 1: you look at prayer Man, the people on the steps,
• 2:31:23
  Speaker 1: and the publishing ladies, you know, the witnesses, the people
• 2:31:28
  Speaker 1: you know, Gordon Arnold. I mean you could, but there's
• 2:31:34
  Speaker 1: going to be a couple that you're not going to
• 2:31:36
  Speaker 1: be able to identify, just statistically, right. And I think
• 2:31:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of our conspiratorial and curious mind and our
• 2:31:45
  Speaker 1: imaginations go to, like, whoa, what if she was this?
• 2:31:49
  Speaker 1: What if she was a raw child? What if she
• 2:31:51
  Speaker 1: has some super super secret gun that has never been photographed.
• 2:31:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not ruling it out, but it's a stretch for me.
• 2:32:00
  Speaker 3: You know, yes, tiny recent that email, I don't remember
• 2:32:04
  Speaker 3: that at all. Dark complexed man wearing two cameras at
• 2:32:09
  Speaker 3: Parkland recent an email?
• 2:32:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, please, I think I know that picture. But you
• 2:32:17
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like the mind when there's a
• 2:32:20
  Speaker 1: mystery and you can't identify someone, like the imagination just
• 2:32:23
  Speaker 1: goes crazy, right, And I think the result is these
• 2:32:28
  Speaker 1: type of theories and the more Awkham's raiser explanation as
• 2:32:34
  Speaker 1: she was a random girl and a lady and her
• 2:32:39
  Speaker 1: pictures weren't anything at the time, and no one paid
• 2:32:42
  Speaker 1: attention to her. And you can't blame her for not
• 2:32:46
  Speaker 1: coming forward and getting involved in this whole mess either.
• 2:32:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that that's I hadn't heard that story before,
• 2:32:54
  Speaker 3: and that's an interesting one for sure. And everybody hates
• 2:32:57
  Speaker 3: on Gary Mack from being turning into this deep bunking
• 2:33:01
  Speaker 3: learn nutter in his later years. But you know he did,
• 2:33:05
  Speaker 3: he did some good work in the eighties and he
• 2:33:08
  Speaker 3: was legit there for a while.
• 2:33:09
  Speaker 1: And mm hmm.
• 2:33:11
  Speaker 3: He was in the right place to hear a lot
• 2:33:14
  Speaker 3: of these stories, you know, in Dallas and A certainly
• 2:33:19
  Speaker 3: sounds like a plausible, more plausible scenario than a lot
• 2:33:23
  Speaker 3: of the other bublushka lady theories that we run into, Joe.
• 2:33:30
  Speaker 1: So that is all I have, sir, And thank you
• 2:33:32
  Speaker 1: again to Alex Harris for her giving some context into.
• 2:33:37
  Speaker 3: This matter, yes, or or him give me some context
• 2:33:40
  Speaker 3: in this matter?
• 2:33:41
  Speaker 1: Did I say her? Yes?
• 2:33:44
  Speaker 3: He did?
• 2:33:45
  Speaker 1: I think I was like clear in my throat. It's
• 2:33:48
  Speaker 1: a he does so long here No, but we we
• 2:33:54
  Speaker 1: love Alexanda.
• 2:33:55
  Speaker 3: Thank you again, sir, Yes, thank you Alex, Thank you sir.
• 2:33:59
  Speaker 3: All Right, folks. At the end of this epically long
• 2:34:02
  Speaker 3: Loncoming Podcast episode number three forty two, the mini cameras
• 2:34:09
  Speaker 3: of Lee Harvey Oswald and thank you guys for hanging
• 2:34:13
  Speaker 3: out with us and interacting with the show. We always
• 2:34:18
  Speaker 3: love it so much. You guys rock. You definitely add
• 2:34:22
  Speaker 3: something to the show, and we hope you enjoyed. And
• 2:34:28
  Speaker 3: I guess Joe is tracking down Ruby to do some dancing.
• 2:34:34
  Speaker 1: She was sleeping, so I got a treat to lure her.
• 2:34:38
  Speaker 3: Got a sweet talker. Yes, all right, Ruby, it's time
• 2:34:45
  Speaker 3: to dance, girl. Girlfriend.
• 2:34:47
  Speaker 1: Here's a treat so you can dance.
• 2:34:50
  Speaker 3: Dino, bring your ass in here. Thank youself, West, Thank
• 2:35:02
  Speaker 3: you than Brian.
• 2:35:15
  Speaker 5: The greatest lies are talking from the name of truth.
• 2:35:18
  Speaker 5: The greatest crimes are committed in the name of justice.
• 2:35:21
  Speaker 5: The quotation is Jim Garrison's. It could be used for
• 2:35:24
  Speaker 5: him or against all this strange case.
• 2:35:27
  Speaker 3: Good night, Yes, and mister Thunder, that's good night. Thanks
• 2:35:37
  Speaker 3: see poor, Thank you, Paula James Randall tiny yes.
• 2:35:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Everyone. Have a great weekend and special shout
• 2:35:50
  Speaker 1: out to the mothers and the grandmother's in our chat.
• 2:35:53
  Speaker 1: I hope everyone has a great mother Day's Mother's Day weekend.
• 2:35:57
  Speaker 3: Happy Mother's Day to all mothers out there. And there's
• 2:36:01
  Speaker 3: people with mothers who are now along with us who
• 2:36:04
  Speaker 3: can appreciate their moms out there, So shouts out yes and.
• 2:36:10
  Speaker 1: Cat mothers like Sally. I think she said she has
• 2:36:13
  Speaker 1: six earlier. Crazy she just had babies.
• 2:36:23
  Speaker 3: I want you ship one over here in a box. Yes,
• 2:36:29
  Speaker 3: kitty needs a kitty needs a wife or a man actually.
• 2:36:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and members, we will see you Wednesday with
• 2:36:38
  Speaker 1: some fuego. Rob teased. I don't even know what he's coming.
• 2:36:42
  Speaker 3: Up with, but a bunch of New Orleans ship buddy
• 2:36:47
  Speaker 3: good stuff, Yeah, good stuff, if you know what I'm saying,
• 2:36:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of gayness. We'll leave it at that. Are
• 2:36:55
  Speaker 3: you going to get an accident or too, yes he will.
• 2:36:57
  Speaker 1: Oh oh yes, that's not a reason to sign up
• 2:37:01
  Speaker 1: to be a covert operator.
• 2:37:02
  Speaker 3: I do not know that's right. All right, folks, see Wednesday.
• 2:37:08
  Speaker 3: Pe Peace,