Latest / Mini Scroll / Phoebe Gates app Phia is in big trouble | TikTok voice memo guy + Margaret x Jack split update

Transcript

Phoebe Gates app Phia is in big trouble | TikTok voice memo guy + Margaret x Jack split update · Mini Scroll

• 0:00
  Coming up today on Mini Scroll, Phoebe Gates shopping app
• 0:04
  accused of affiliate fraud Breaking down Tik Tok's voice
• 0:08
  memo guy and Margaret Quali's team denies infidelity rumors Hi
• 0:14
  everyone. Welcome to Mini Scroll, the
• 0:17
  daily Internet culture podcast bringing you the biggest stories
• 0:20
  from social media, the creator economy and the digital space.
• 0:23
  Every Monday through Thursday and sometimes Fridays.
• 0:26
  I'm your host, Lauren Meissner, the founder of the Australian
• 0:29
  youth digital media brand Centennial World.
• 0:33
  Welcome back to Mini Scroll, everyone.
• 0:35
  Happy Monday. OK, I don't think I have any
• 0:38
  updates for you guys, but wow, have the thumbnails and the new
• 0:42
  titles really performed. And that was the point.
• 0:46
  And I know it's cringe. I know the thumbnails are like
• 0:49
  so click baity. It's not my favorite vibe
• 0:52
  either. And for years I have avoided
• 0:54
  really like leaning into that. But I got to the point where I
• 0:58
  was like, we are producing this show every single day.
• 1:01
  And while it gets good numbers, like it is obviously always
• 1:04
  growing. And I was happy with the success
• 1:06
  and with our audience. I'm like, if we want to get to
• 1:09
  that next level, we need to change something.
• 1:12
  And so I worked on that little rebrand.
• 1:14
  And even though it is cringe, I know some of you guys don't like
• 1:17
  it, some of you do, but some of you don't.
• 1:19
  That's fine. It has really worked like a week
• 1:22
  in and we've already seen so many more views, so much more
• 1:25
  engagement. So to all of our new listeners
• 1:27
  and viewers, welcome. And sometimes when you're
• 1:29
  building something and it's so hard, and I would say like 95%
• 1:33
  of the time things feel like they're not working, they're
• 1:36
  never gonna take off. Everything's always going wrong
• 1:39
  in a start up for something to actually work out.
• 1:42
  It's like magical, and that's what's been happening with mini
• 1:45
  scroll across the board. Like you guys know, I keep
• 1:47
  talking about the mini scroll TikTok, but like she is popping
• 1:49
  the fuck off like 10 million views in six weeks.
• 1:52
  It just makes no sense. I'm like what is going on?
• 1:55
  So it's a very exciting time here at mini scroll.
• 1:59
  All right, let's just get into the stories for today.
• 2:02
  The first story that I have you guys today.
• 2:03
  This is very mini tech coded, but it has been everywhere over
• 2:09
  the weekend and we wanted to jump on it as soon as possible.
• 2:13
  And of course, as a female founder myself and we are also
• 2:16
  raising capital right now for Centennial Worlds.
• 2:19
  Like we have a tech product that we're going to be releasing.
• 2:21
  I've teased it here and there on the podcast for you guys over
• 2:25
  the past couple of months. So yes, we're in the middle of
• 2:27
  like a cap raise as well right now.
• 2:29
  So I feel like I have an interesting or like unique
• 2:31
  perspective. So I'm going to break it down
• 2:33
  for you guys today instead of Annabelle breaking it down for
• 2:36
  you on Wednesday. However, if there are any
• 2:38
  updates it's moving forward, Annabelle will be the one to
• 2:41
  cover it. I don't think I even told you
• 2:42
  what the story is. So fashion tech app FIA has been
• 2:45
  accused of faking sales. So FIA bills itself as the
• 2:50
  Google Flights of Fashion. It's a tool that allows users to
• 2:54
  compare prices on different items across the Internet.
• 2:57
  A personal shopping assistant, as they say.
• 3:00
  Users can download it as an app or use it as a browser
• 3:03
  extension. Sophia is not necessarily
• 3:06
  original in its core function. There are quite a few price
• 3:10
  comparison browser extensions and tools that already exist to
• 3:13
  help Internet users save money while online shopping.
• 3:16
  Obviously, Honey is a little bit different, but it's definitely
• 3:19
  the most famous example. But some factors that
• 3:21
  differentiate FIA. First, the app has made an
• 3:23
  effort to merge fast fashion with second hand resale when
• 3:27
  comparing prices and purchasing. Second, they had a strong
• 3:30
  network of investors and buzzy marketing strategies.
• 3:33
  So some of the investors in Fiat include Khloe Kardashian, Alex
• 3:37
  Earl, Winnie Harlow, Paris Hilton and more.
• 3:40
  And of course, I'm sure you guys all know this, but it was Co
• 3:42
  founded by Phoebe Gates, who is Bill Gates daughter and Sofia
• 3:45
  Keani. So they both went to Stanford.
• 3:47
  They definitely had some major connections and access that
• 3:51
  other fashion tech might not have.
• 3:53
  All right, so last week Ben Edelman, who's an independent
• 3:56
  researcher and consultant, shared that he had been looking
• 3:58
  into, quote, multiple forms of misconduct by PHIA.
• 4:03
  This is a little complicated, but in the simplest terms, PHIA
• 4:06
  generates revenue as an affiliate.
• 4:09
  This means that the company takes the Commission on
• 4:11
  purchases that are made using the tool.
• 4:13
  So this may be when a user discovers a product through
• 4:16
  Fiat, its recommendations, or something of that nature.
• 4:19
  Many of us would be familiar with affiliates through
• 4:21
  influencers sharing affiliate links.
• 4:23
  We graduated from Stanford and we built.
• 4:25
  This. It's like Google flights but for
• 4:27
  shopping. It stops you from overpaying or
• 4:29
  getting scammed. So.
• 4:30
  How can it save you? Hundreds of dollars while you
• 4:32
  shop. We used to waste hours shopping
• 4:35
  online. Comparing prices looking for
• 4:37
  second hand deals and wondering if we were overpaying and
• 4:39
  nothing told us if the price was actually fair so.
• 4:42
  We built something that. Could we had no technical
• 4:44
  background, just a lot of frustration and a product that
• 4:47
  barely worked at first but after months of trial and error.
• 4:50
  We came up with this. Thea instantly tells you whether
• 4:53
  you're overpaying and finds you new or second hand matches for
• 4:55
  less from across the Internet. Edelman, in his review, claims
• 4:58
  that Fia's app and Chrome plug in both include a setting that
• 5:02
  quote automatically invokes affiliate links without user
• 5:05
  action. So, in other words, FIA has
• 5:08
  allegedly been making commissions on purchases even
• 5:11
  when users are not interacting with the tool.
• 5:15
  This is considered to be a form of fraud and is widely known as
• 5:18
  cookie stuffing. After Edelman shared these
• 5:20
  findings, major publications also started picking up on the
• 5:23
  story. Bloomberg conducted its own
• 5:25
  investigation, finding Quote, Fia's mobile browser extension,
• 5:29
  opened a background tab with user interaction, and injected
• 5:33
  its own referral code. By seemingly taking credit for a
• 5:37
  sale like this, Fiat is allegedly making unearned
• 5:39
  commissions. So if this is the case, Fiat can
• 5:42
  override the actual referrals or the actual affiliates.
• 5:46
  Retailers may also have been paying Fiat unnecessary fees, so
• 5:50
  the journalist spoke to Edelman, who explained Quote.
• 5:53
  The most fundamental requirement in affiliate marketing is that
• 5:56
  Commission is only paid if a user clicks.
• 5:59
  The rules don't allow fake clicks, simulated clicks,
• 6:02
  imaginary clicks or hypothetical clicks.
• 6:04
  Only a real click will do. Now, if you did respond to
• 6:07
  Bloomberg's request for comment, the spokesperson characterized
• 6:10
  the issue as a bug in the code as opposed to something
• 6:14
  intentional. Quote within the last 24 hours.
• 6:17
  We were made aware that in a recent release, our code base
• 6:20
  was causing misattributions from a subset of users.
• 6:23
  As soon as we were notified, our team worked overnight to
• 6:26
  identify, mitigate, and has since resolved the issue.
• 6:29
  Bloomberg has since retested the browser extension, finding that
• 6:32
  it did indeed stop claiming referral links.
• 6:34
  OK, so while researchers and publications claim the issue has
• 6:37
  been rectified, that does not mean that things are over for
• 6:40
  FIA. Major affiliate platform
• 6:42
  impact.com suspended FIA due to this behavior, noting that this
• 6:46
  is quote, inconsistent with our platform policies.
• 6:49
  TikTok users are taking to the platform in droves to discuss
• 6:53
  what this means for fashion tech, female founders and
• 6:56
  affiliate marketing online as a whole.
• 6:58
  The take that I am seeing pretty frequently in comment sections
• 7:01
  and from KC Lewis specifically, who's the author of the after
• 7:04
  school newsletter, is that by quote, UN quote overriding
• 7:07
  commissions, FIA may have been taking revenue from smaller
• 7:10
  publishers and also from influencers and creators.
• 7:14
  So in the context of publishers, there are smaller and smaller
• 7:17
  budgets available. We talk about this all the time
• 7:19
  in AD sales, so any added revenue could be useful.
• 7:23
  Publishers have long considered affiliate commissions as an
• 7:26
  additional revenue stream and publishing listicles is one
• 7:29
  example of that. And then from the influencer or
• 7:32
  creator side, if a user had downloaded the Fiat app on their
• 7:36
  phone and they also follow a bunch of fashion influencers,
• 7:39
  probably that crossover is pretty strong, right?
• 7:42
  And they click on an affiliate link from an influencer, let's
• 7:46
  say on Instagram or something. And they already had FIA
• 7:48
  downloaded on their iOS. It is possible that FIA could
• 7:52
  have been taking credit for their purchase through the
• 7:56
  influencers affiliate link that they found on their Instagram
• 7:58
  swipe up or something like that or their LTK, their shop.
• 8:01
  My I saw people in the comments section as well saying that
• 8:04
  influencers apparently have been voicing their concerns around
• 8:09
  their lack of commissions from shop My, saying that it seems
• 8:13
  like the Commission from shop my is going missing.
• 8:15
  I have not verified this but I have seen it in the comments
• 8:18
  sections and so this could possibly explain why because VIA
• 8:22
  was claiming that the sales were coming from them when the
• 8:26
  purchaser actually used a shop my affiliate link or something
• 8:29
  like that. Via claims to have 1.5 million
• 8:32
  users. Now I don't know that we can
• 8:34
  necessarily take their word for it, but we can assume that they
• 8:38
  have a very large user base. The way this cookie stuffing
• 8:42
  works is they were inserting their code into every single
• 8:46
  purchase, whether they were the one who was recommending the
• 8:50
  item or not. I think most of us on this app
• 8:52
  know how affiliate revenue works.
• 8:54
  I recommend this shirt. You go and buy it on j.crew.
• 8:57
  I see, you know, a dollar or $5. And for companies like FIA or
• 9:02
  plugins like Honey or websites like Wire Cutter, they recommend
• 9:06
  these things. They connect you to the product.
• 9:08
  They see a cut of that. And what FIA was doing was
• 9:10
  interjecting their code so the money wouldn't go to wire Cutter
• 9:13
  or Honey or me the influencer. I'm not an influencer.
• 9:17
  When we think about the Venn diagram of the influencers we
• 9:19
  follow in love and the people who have FIA on their phones and
• 9:25
  laptops, there's tons of overlap.
• 9:27
  I suspect just based on Fias marketing target audience and
• 9:31
  Phoebe Gates reach right that is a huge overlapping audience.
• 9:35
  So think about all of the influencers over the last.
• 9:39
  I don't know how long this bug has been in the code.
• 9:42
  Via has potentially allegedly gotten, I don't know, millions
• 9:46
  of dollars that would otherwise be going to these influencers
• 9:49
  who are doing the work of recommending the.
• 9:52
  Stuff. OK, so there's also quite a bit
• 9:53
  of discourse around what this means for fashion tech and for
• 9:56
  female founders more broadly. Sophia has recently raised 35
• 10:00
  million USD in funding from investors, an amount that raises
• 10:05
  questions about whether some of those same investors refused to
• 10:08
  support rival fashion tech products, given how buzzy Fiat
• 10:12
  has become both. Are asking the question whoa,
• 10:15
  shouldn't the investors have done due diligence and uncovered
• 10:19
  that this company was using cookie stuffing?
• 10:23
  If you go to. Ben's site, which I think you
• 10:25
  really should if you're interested in this, go to the
• 10:27
  primary source. Ben walks through the code
• 10:31
  review that he did and he shows that the cookie cookie stuffing
• 10:34
  was actually happening on iOS only.
• 10:38
  I think this is really important because Ben, who has been doing
• 10:44
  investigative work into this category for 20 years, said that
• 10:49
  he had never seen anything like this.
• 10:51
  He had never seen cookie stuffing done on iOS only.
• 10:56
  He commented as such on my LinkedIn post, basically saying
• 11:00
  that traditionally when cooking stuff, cookie stuffing is done,
• 11:02
  it's done on desktop. And I think that in a typical
• 11:06
  Series A due diligence process, which is what this was, you
• 11:10
  would absolutely do a code review.
• 11:12
  I'm not expecting Alex Earl to do a code review.
• 11:15
  I'm not expecting Khloe Kardashian or Kim Kardashian to
• 11:18
  do code review, but I am expecting notable capital Khosla
• 11:23
  and major venture firms to do a code review.
• 11:25
  But I think what's interesting is because cookie stuffing on
• 11:30
  iOS is novel, it likely could be missed in a typical due
• 11:35
  diligence process. And of course with the female
• 11:37
  founder angle it is harder to be a female founder.
• 11:41
  People take you way less seriously.
• 11:43
  You are under a microscope in a way that a lot of times male
• 11:47
  founders are just not. For every Fiat, there's probably
• 11:50
  like 100 male founded companies that are doing just as shady
• 11:54
  stuff. I know there's a lot of people
• 11:56
  who are like what FIA is doing. It is a it's a very shady and I
• 12:01
  think a legal practice, but a lot of companies have done it.
• 12:04
  OK, but like that doesn't make it right.
• 12:06
  And there is much more of a microscope on FIA because they
• 12:09
  have chosen to go this very like public flashy route, right?
• 12:13
  The founders obviously had profile before this and then
• 12:17
  they launched a podcast that aligns with their brand.
• 12:20
  They're going on every single podcast, they're doing tons of
• 12:23
  press, they're getting a list celebrities to invest in their
• 12:26
  brand. They're raising all this money.
• 12:28
  Like there is such a spotlight on them because they are using
• 12:32
  that spotlight to fuel the success of their business.
• 12:36
  So yes, female founders absolutely are under more
• 12:38
  scrutiny. Male founders are absolutely
• 12:40
  allowed to mess up way more than female founders.
• 12:44
  But this is not a witch hunt. Like what has allegedly happened
• 12:47
  here is very, very, very bad. It's very serious.
• 12:51
  And this criticism is incredibly valid.
• 12:53
  And it's important that we look at it right and that we
• 12:56
  understand what's happened here and why it's wrong and that
• 12:59
  there are consequences that happened here.
• 13:02
  And those two things can exist together.
• 13:04
  Like female founders can face way more criticism, way more
• 13:08
  scrutiny. It can be way harder for them.
• 13:10
  And this can also be a really, really, really seriously bad
• 13:15
  situation where there need to be consequences.
• 13:18
  All right. And the next story that I have
• 13:20
  for you guys today, OK, I'm going to break down the
• 13:25
  situation going on around voice memo guy.
• 13:29
  Basically, a voice memo from a man is going viral on TikTok.
• 13:33
  It was sent privately to a woman after their first date and later
• 13:37
  shared on the app. Not shared by the sender it
• 13:39
  seems, but by their friend. Essentially.
• 13:42
  In the audio he says he had a good time on their first date
• 13:45
  and wants to see her again, but only if she is willing to have
• 13:48
  sex. Here is the voice memo and
• 13:51
  trigger warning for after this voice memo.
• 13:53
  I am going to get into some opinions and some of the
• 13:55
  discourse where people feel like this was possibly sexual
• 13:59
  coercion. Had a good time tonight,
• 14:01
  definitely think you are lovely. However I would love to if we're
• 14:05
  going to go to your place on Thursday.
• 14:07
  I mean, I am looking to have that physical intimacy to see if
• 14:13
  like I am sexually compatible with you.
• 14:17
  So like if I'm going to come over like I would be hoping to
• 14:21
  like hook up, have sex, have a good time, have like that
• 14:24
  romantic spark and that physical spark there for my own sake.
• 14:30
  Because it's hard for me to continue dating if dating
• 14:34
  someone and seeing them if I don't know if I'm sexually
• 14:36
  compatible. So I know you said I don't know
• 14:40
  about that. So like, I guess my thing is is
• 14:43
  like, what would be the point of me coming over then if we're not
• 14:46
  going to like hook up and like cuddle and like be intimate with
• 14:52
  each other. And if that's what you don't
• 14:54
  want, that's fine. But like, I think we should just
• 14:56
  like end it here then respectfully, just because I
• 15:00
  first date, that's fine. Like you want to get to know
• 15:03
  each other. I'm all about that.
• 15:04
  But like I am looking to have that physical aspect there and I
• 15:08
  don't want to continue seeing someone if I don't know if
• 15:12
  that's good. If that's not, they're not so up
• 15:16
  to you. Let me know.
• 15:17
  I'm happy to if you do want me to come over, I'm happy to do
• 15:21
  so. Would love to fuck, have a good
• 15:22
  time and you know we can have some wine, hang out and chill
• 15:27
  but if you're not trying to hook up then like I think we should
• 15:30
  just go our separate ways. Let me know.
• 15:32
  OK, so dating content tends to go viral on TikTok, so the
• 15:36
  virality itself is not surprising.
• 15:38
  But traction really spiked after TikTok user at Ted Kaczynski's
• 15:43
  great friend shared their take on The Voice memo.
• 15:46
  So she was basically team voice memo guy, and she framed it as
• 15:49
  an example of consent in action. That response video hit 2
• 15:54
  million views in five days. She turned the comments off, but
• 15:57
  she since posted over 10 follow up videos defending the stance.
• 16:02
  Anyways, the discussion has evolved into a broader consent
• 16:06
  versus coercion debate, with many questioning whether the man
• 16:09
  was actually practicing consent. In follow-ups, she doubled down,
• 16:13
  arguing quote purity culture is worse than I realized and that
• 16:17
  viewers have the quote emotional acuity of 12 year olds.
• 16:21
  A video went viral last week of a girl that got a voice note
• 16:23
  from a guy that she was dating and he was basically saying hey,
• 16:26
  if we're going to continue hanging out, I just want you to
• 16:29
  know that I am seeking a sexual connection.
• 16:32
  And if you don't want to explore a sexual connection, then we
• 16:35
  should probably just end this now because a sexual connection
• 16:38
  is a priority to me. And this was presented as a
• 16:41
  negative thing. And the comments were littered
• 16:43
  with people saying men aren't lonely enough etcetera etcetera.
• 16:47
  And I was sitting there thinking this is what consent looks like.
• 16:51
  Y'all Like we discussed the concept of consent so much but I
• 16:55
  don't think people actually understand what it looks like.
• 16:59
  And that voice note is what consent looks like.
• 17:03
  It is blunt, it is raw, it is obvious.
• 17:07
  And that guy gave the girl a chance to be like, oh, OK, this
• 17:10
  is moving too quickly for me and that's not how I want to conduct
• 17:15
  us dating right now. The main pushback against the
• 17:19
  claim that he was practicing consent is that the man actually
• 17:23
  just put forth an ultimatum. Consent is a mutual agreement,
• 17:28
  while an ultimatum is demand that requires someone else to
• 17:32
  change their behavior for whatever reason. 1 is about
• 17:35
  respect and the other is about pressure.
• 17:37
  And he makes that pretty clear because he says in one part of
• 17:41
  this voice note that he knows that she wasn't like fully down
• 17:46
  for that before. As in presumably having sex with
• 17:49
  him so soon. So one TikTok user named
• 17:52
  Priscilla made some very good points around all of this.
• 17:54
  Who? Cannot get consent from somebody
• 17:57
  while giving them an ultimatum. That's not consent according to
• 18:02
  RAIN. Look up what that acronym means.
• 18:04
  I can't say it on here. Consent is a mutual agreement to
• 18:08
  engage in intimate activity. It should always be clear,
• 18:14
  voluntary and communicated without pressure, manipulation
• 18:21
  or fear. It should always be clear.
• 18:25
  Let's not forget that he already tried to ask for her consent.
• 18:29
  Hence why he said I know, you already said I don't know.
• 18:34
  I don't know is not clear consent.
• 18:37
  No consent folks sent must be communicated without pressure,
• 18:42
  manipulation or fear. Others argue that this is like a
• 18:48
  low stakes ultimatum because they only went on one date and
• 18:52
  they don't really owe each other anything.
• 18:54
  And I hate the you don't owe anyone anything narrative that
• 19:00
  just runs free and wild all over social media these past couple
• 19:05
  of years. I think that framing minimizes
• 19:08
  what is happening in that voice memo.
• 19:10
  He is stating what he wants, yes, but he's also saying that
• 19:13
  he will disengage if his expectations are not met.
• 19:17
  The reason that the argument of this is great consent practice
• 19:20
  feels so disingenuous to so many people is because everyone who's
• 19:23
  making that argument is reframing that voice note to
• 19:26
  quite a large degree. They're making it sound like
• 19:29
  something very different from what it actually is.
• 19:31
  You know, every single video I've seen where people are
• 19:33
  saying, yeah, this is good consent practice, they've
• 19:36
  started it by saying, so this guy sent this woman a voice note
• 19:39
  to find out whether or not sex was on the table.
• 19:42
  So then I went to listen to that voice note and I was expecting
• 19:45
  something totally different from what I got.
• 19:47
  Because I think there's a big difference between finding out
• 19:50
  whether or not someone is open to a sexual connection with you
• 19:53
  before you, like, get more serious with them.
• 19:56
  There's a big difference between that and saying I'm not
• 19:59
  interested in getting to know you anymore unless we have sex
• 20:02
  on the second date. There is no compromise here.
• 20:04
  They've been on one date they don't even know each other like
• 20:08
  at all. For him to be like if you don't
• 20:11
  fuck me on the 2nd date then we're done.
• 20:14
  That is not consent in practice. He's not having a conversation
• 20:18
  about this with her. This is not boundary setting.
• 20:20
  I've seen so many people saying he's setting a boundary.
• 20:22
  That is not what a boundary is. A boundary is something that you
• 20:25
  impose on yourself to protect yourself or to set a certain
• 20:29
  standard for yourself. Genuine consent involves
• 20:32
  continuous agreement, mutual respect, and boundaries that
• 20:35
  both people are setting for themselves, themselves.
• 20:37
  It isn't just like one person laying out what is going to
• 20:39
  happen next. And part of the nuance here as
• 20:42
  well is the consideration of like, who is on the receiving
• 20:46
  end of that voice memo? Because there would be people
• 20:49
  that would receive this and be like, wow, fuck you, buddy and
• 20:53
  block him and never talk to him again.
• 20:55
  Or there's other women who might be more susceptible to that kind
• 20:59
  of pressure. And clarity is another really
• 21:02
  important part of practicing consent, which is definitely
• 21:05
  something that he does in this voice memo.
• 21:07
  But the way he delivers his desires is so transactional,
• 21:11
  which undermines kind of like any social construct when it
• 21:14
  comes to building healthy relationships with somebody,
• 21:17
  sexual or romantic. Like, at the end of the day, we
• 21:19
  actually do owe each other common courtesy and decency.
• 21:24
  And a video by Good Noticing's podcast speaks very well to
• 21:27
  this. The voice note guy is a symptom
• 21:29
  of the culture that is out here litigating that voice note as
• 21:33
  like either consent culture king hero or coercion culture evil
• 21:39
  villain. When everything is black and
• 21:41
  white, then it like reduces people into treating other
• 21:44
  people as if we're like in a computer game, saying all the
• 21:48
  right words in order to get exactly what we want.
• 21:51
  We have like completely lost the ability of how to interact with
• 21:55
  one another. I am a single person.
• 21:57
  I have a lot of single female friends.
• 21:58
  And I would say all of us have dealt with a situation like this
• 22:01
  where like, most of us are OK with like casual situations.
• 22:05
  However, you don't want to feel like your only purpose is to
• 22:09
  like, have sex with this. Like the, the way this guy
• 22:11
  approached this, maybe she was down for a casual thing, but
• 22:14
  approaching it in this way is like, makes you feel like shit.
• 22:18
  And yeah, that's because of societal conditioning, because
• 22:20
  we live in a society. There are social contracts,
• 22:24
  there are ways to treat each other, there's nuance, and
• 22:26
  there's ways to move about a situation.
• 22:29
  And everyone is so fucking gleeful to like, tear up these
• 22:31
  social contracts and proceed with everyone just like looking
• 22:35
  at each other like fucking robots and ordering human
• 22:38
  interactions. Like you order stuff off a menu.
• 22:40
  Like this, I would say, isn't like consent culture or coercion
• 22:43
  culture. I would argue it's like we don't
• 22:45
  owe each other anything Culture. And those who see the voice memo
• 22:48
  as either coercion or as an ultimatum or manipulative,
• 22:53
  they're not saying that communicating your needs in a
• 22:56
  relationship or in a new partnership, anything that's
• 22:59
  going on when you're early and dating like that, that is not
• 23:02
  important. They're not saying that a sexual
• 23:05
  relationship isn't important in a romantic relationship.
• 23:08
  If you're going to start dating somebody, all of that is
• 23:11
  incredibly valid. But that is not what he was
• 23:13
  doing here. There was no opportunity for
• 23:15
  response. There was no proper
• 23:18
  communication like a back and forth conversation around
• 23:21
  consent and the stages that they were getting to.
• 23:24
  They've gone on one single date. We can't look at situations like
• 23:28
  this as black and white. We can't look at it as like, OK,
• 23:32
  this guy communicated what he wants from this relationship and
• 23:35
  therefore green tick, there's so much Gray in every situation in
• 23:40
  any type of like interpersonal relationship situation
• 23:43
  conversation. And this voice memo, if you have
• 23:46
  listened to it from start to finish, it is not a green flag.
• 23:49
  All right. And the last story that I have
• 23:52
  for you guys today is Margaret Crawley has denied infidelity
• 23:56
  rumors. So we covered the news that
• 23:58
  Margaret Crawley and Jack Anchinoff had split on
• 24:00
  Thursday's episode, but I have a quick update.
• 24:04
  As the Internet often does, people were speculating why the
• 24:06
  pair were separating after three years of marriage.
• 24:09
  Some social media users believed that there was infidelity
• 24:11
  involved. One of the more popular theories
• 24:14
  online was that Margaret was romantically involved with her
• 24:17
  Co star Drew Starkey. However, users were also
• 24:19
  skeptical about Jack Anchinoff's behavior, especially after
• 24:23
  Margaret archived and then unarchived their pictures
• 24:26
  together. People were questioning whether
• 24:28
  there was some resentment on Margaret's end, so
• 24:31
  representatives on behalf of Margaret issued a statement to
• 24:33
  People denying claims of infidelity.
• 24:35
  As it reads quote, the narratives running in the press
• 24:37
  about Margaret and Jack are categorically untrue.
• 24:40
  There are no trust issues. There was no infidelity or
• 24:43
  anything outside of respect and partnership in this
• 24:45
  relationship. They have deep love and care for
• 24:48
  one another. There are only two people in
• 24:50
  this marriage and the sources who are talking to the press and
• 24:52
  commenting on their privacy are not people who know them.
• 24:56
  Please respect their privacy. Jack Antonoff's team has not
• 24:58
  responded to People's request for comment.
• 25:01
  OK, so since we reported on their split last week, there has
• 25:04
  been a lot of conversation about Jack's relationship with Lena
• 25:07
  Dunham. In Fame Sick, which was Lena's
• 25:10
  memoir, she spoke about their six year relationship where she
• 25:14
  admitted to cheating on him. This came after he developed a
• 25:17
  close bond with an unnamed teenage pop star during that
• 25:20
  time, who many believe to be lured, though never confirmed,
• 25:25
  and Lena says she felt cast aside as a result.
• 25:29
  There is an iconic piece of Internet lore associated with
• 25:31
  all of this, a 29 page presentation created by a
• 25:35
  Twitter user breaking down why she believed Lord and producer
• 25:39
  Jack Antonoff had an emotional affair and that it led to Trump
• 25:42
  being in the White House. Lord and Jack Antonoff are
• 25:45
  responsible for the Trump presidency.
• 25:48
  You haven't heard of the PowerPoint?
• 25:50
  Allow me to enlighten you. In 2018, a manic genius Hillary
• 25:54
  Benton created this PowerPoint detailing every piece of
• 25:58
  evidence she could find that 20 year old Lord had an 18 month
• 26:02
  long affair with 34 year old Jack Antonov, who was dating his
• 26:08
  longtime girlfriend Lena Dunham at the time.
• 26:10
  The PowerPoint also argues that the entire album Melodrama,
• 26:14
  which is supposedly about her another creepy, gross older
• 26:18
  boyfriend, is actually about Jack Antonoff, Lena Dunham,
• 26:22
  actress, producer, and prominent millennial outreach lobbyist for
• 26:27
  the Hillary Clinton 2016 presidential campaign, for which
• 26:31
  she was on the road for about 18 months.
• 26:34
  How long did the album Melodrama take to produce while she was
• 26:37
  out of town and a 20 year old was sleeping on her couch,
• 26:40
  breaking closely with her boyfriend?
• 26:42
  18 months. And who failed to win over the
• 26:45
  young and millennial voters in the 2016 campaign, resulting in
• 26:49
  this orange man to take office for the first time.
• 26:53
  You see where we're going with. This.
• 26:55
  So yeah. Now, one of the main theories,
• 26:57
  aside from infidelity is that Margaret read Fame Sick and that
• 27:02
  prompted her to rethink her relationship with Jack.
• 27:06
  I don't personally subscribe to that.
• 27:08
  I do not think that this really had much to do with Lena
• 27:12
  Dunham's book. I think what we talked about on
• 27:14
  Thursday is probably more valid, which is that he didn't seem to
• 27:18
  like treat her very well throughout the relationship.
• 27:20
  Like from what we saw, obviously, we have actually no
• 27:22
  idea. But like from what we thought
• 27:24
  publicly, he didn't seem to be like a great partner to her.
• 27:27
  And I feel like she's on such an ascension and she is like such a
• 27:31
  freaking it girl now. And I mean, that's only just
• 27:34
  going to like keep going for her now that I I feel like at some
• 27:37
  point she was just done. That's my opinion anyways, guys,
• 27:41
  that's it for mini scroll today. Thank you so much for listening.
• 27:44
  I love you guys. Please remember to rate review
• 27:46
  and subscribe. Please Spotify star rate US.
• 27:48
  It helps us so much. It helps us grow.
• 27:50
  And I will talk to you guys tomorrow.
• 27:52
  Bye. Centennial World podcast network
• 27:54
  operates on Gadigal land. We would like to acknowledge the
• 27:57
  Gadigal of the Eora Nation, the traditional custodians of this
• 28:00
  land, and pay our respects to elders both past and present.