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COP30 Belém: The Hidden Decisions That Could Change the Ocean Forever · How To Protect The Ocean

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  World leaders celebrated the results of COP30, but a closer look reveals
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  that there are gaps that could shape the future of the ocean.
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  In this episode I explained what was left out and how those decisions
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  ripple through marine ecosystems.
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  That's what we're gonna talk about on today's episode of the
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  How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
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  Let's start the show.
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  Hey everybody.
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  Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
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  I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, marine biologist and science communicator
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  here to tell you what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up for
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  the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action.
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  Today I am breaking down the major criticisms of COP30 and explaining
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  what they really mean for the ocean.
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  We talk a lot about climate.
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  We talk a lot about the people.
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  We're gonna be putting in people 'cause you can't have
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  people without a planet really.
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  But we're gonna be talking about that.
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  We're gonna talk from like, from weak language on fossil fuels
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  to confusing finance rules.
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  And that new two-track system that may bury ocean science, but
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  also may get a lot more done.
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  This summit leaves behind so, so many unanswered questions.
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  We're gonna be talking about that and we're gonna be talking a lot
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  about how specific coastal habitats like seagrasses can really benefit
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  our fight against climate change.
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  'cause seagrasses are a carbon sink.
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  It takes in CO2 much, much more at a higher rate than like trees and forests.
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  And so having sea grasses, mangroves, like kelp forests, all these different
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  types of coastal plant meadows and coastal habitats are gonna be really important.
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  And that's why I wanna launch a seagrass podcast with your help.
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  You can crowdfund that.
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  If you go to speak up for blue.com/seagrass, you can help launch
• 1:43
  by crowdfunding the Seagrass Effect.
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  It's a podcast that looks at research, science, conservation
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  as well as restoration projects.
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  While you're doing that and sharing that information, not only among just
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  you and everybody else that listens to all these different podcasts, but
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  you also share it among researchers who are kind of disconnected in this
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  whole seagrass around the world.
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  So we want to connect those seagrass researchers and the research, the
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  conservation, the restoration, all sorts of things in the science.
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  And you can do that by funding the launch of the podcast by
• 2:11
  going to speak up for blue.com.
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  Forward slash seagrass.
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  Not only do you help share information among researchers and amongst yourselves,
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  but you also contribute to restoring Seagrass Meadows, which are wonderful.
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  When you restore seagrass meadows,
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  it just makes not only helps fight climate change, but
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  it brings biodiversity up.
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  It stabilizes the local area that you're doing the restoration in.
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  And it brings back water quality, brings back just that
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  stability and it's really great.
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  So speak up for blue.com/seagrass is the place to go to be a part of that launch.
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  But today we're talking COP30 and I'm telling you, every time I
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  do this, I get a little worried.
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  I hear COP30, everybody's making a big deal about it.
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  And you know, in the past they've had it in countries where fossil fuel dominated
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  and there's a good and bad to that.
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  The bad is that it's in a fossil fuel country.
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  Some of the governments they actually control the fossil fuels
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  like the oil and gas industry.
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  Others don't control it, but they, a lot of their economy is based
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  on oil and gas, the fossil fuels.
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  And so it kind of becomes a little bad because they're gonna obviously
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  want to continue to use fossil fuels and oil and gas that's all in
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  the Middle East, that's been there in the past and in parts of Asia.
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  It becomes a very difficult aspect to really think about how can
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  these COPs, you know, 28, 29.
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  How could they do really well when it's in country that is based
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  where the focus is on oil and gas.
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  Now, a lot of countries are very energy based and fossil fuels is
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  still one of the most dominant energy suppliers or sources that we have.
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  But we need to move away from that.
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  So that's what these COPs are for, these Conventions of Parties to
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  discuss climate change, to use the Paris Agreement as a focus on this and
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  to divest our energy needs away from fossil fuels, which are harmful to the
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  planet and more towards renewable energy.
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  Those were what we hope every time we get into a COP it would do that.
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  This time it's in Belem.
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  I think I'm pronouncing it probably Belem, Brazil.
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  It's a very important area.
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  You have the Amazon Forest, you have a lot of indigenous populations there.
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  A lot of different indigenous populations that have a direct consequence of
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  deforestation, not having a say in their future, getting impacted by mining, by
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  farming practices throughout the Amazon.
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  So that's a big problem.
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  And Brazil still has an oil and gas sector, so it's a very interesting
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  place to put the COP30 for this year.
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  And so we're gonna see what happened in this, and I'm gonna
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  tell you it's not the best news.
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  There's some silver linings in there but not the best news.
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  So we're gonna go over those weaknesses.
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  And the big thing was the weakness in fossil fuel commitments.
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  So COP30 did not adopt any kind of clear fossil fuel phase out.
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  They just didn't even include any text around it, which
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  is what we were hoping for.
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  Many of the countries, there's about 80 countries, including Columbia and others
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  who pushed for stronger language and said, Hey, why don't we have this?
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  But the resistance from the producers softened the final decision.
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  Just to let you know, United States didn't even show up,
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  didn't even bring a delegation.
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  But there were over 200 fossil fuel lobbyists that
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  showed up to the conference.
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  Two COP30.
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  Imagine that.
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  They did the same thing.
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  The chemical and oil and gas and the fossil fuel lobbyists did the same thing
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  when we talked about the Plastic Treaty.
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  They sent an abundant amount of lobbyists to put in the interest of the oil and
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  gas industry for plastics, oil, and gas, or the fossil fuel industry is
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  very interested in producing plastics.
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  It's 30% of their revenue.
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  Chemical companies and so forth are also very interested in plastic production.
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  And so here, obviously with COP30, we're talking about climate change.
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  Fossil fuels is a huge cause of climate change, and there's a
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  lot of money to be made in oil and gas and other fossil fuels.
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  They don't wanna lose that.
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  So they wanna do everything they can to disrupt these sort of meetings
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  and take over the meetings and make sure that their interests are heard.
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  Now, of course, when you have 200 lobbyists, you're not gonna have a
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  lot of people talking about other things like renewables and stuff,
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  and we don't have big lobbyists.
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  I don't know the numbers, but 200 for the fossil fuel industry seems like
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  quite a bit and disruptive quite a bit.
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  So not having the fossil fuel language and divesting away from
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  fossil fuels and no actual commitments.
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  Very disappointing.
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  Really takes away everything that was done at COP30, in my opinion, just having that.
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  Then there's the vague climate finance structure and text.
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  So essentially adaptation finance is supposed to be tripled by
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  2035, but it's a little far.
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  That's.
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  That's far away.
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  Not a little far away, that's far away.
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  The problem is that there's just no clear plan on how the money
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  will be raised or delivered.
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  Who's going to give the money?
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  It used to be where the developing countries that are using fossil fuels
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  will be primarily responsible for providing money to those countries that
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  are affected by climate change, by sea level rise, by increased storm surges and
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  increased storm intensity and so forth.
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  Countries like the US, Middle Eastern countries that have a
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  lot of fossil fuel industry.
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  Canada, a number of other countries we're going to be, have to, you know, put in
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  money to help out these other countries that are affected by the consequence
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  of using a lot of fossil fuels or being producers of a lot of fossil fuels.
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  And so that obviously is a huge problem.
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  And it really shows how coastal communities cannot wait for any kind of
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  slow funding because of storms, 'cause of floods, salt water intrusion and
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  fisheries decline that are happening now.
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  They can't wait for 2035 to get this type of money.
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  We have to come up with a better plan.
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  And that's just lack of the United States not being there, lack of other
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  countries not really ready to put in formal language or stronger language
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  to really commit the finance.
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  And maybe it's because of the state of the economy and the world, I don't know.
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  But obviously this is not helping and not having clear commitments to climate
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  change reduction and having vague climate finance language really puts and dates
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  and commitments really puts a dent, a huge dent that takes away everything for COP30.
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  Like, why do we even bother having these meetings?
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  So that's a problem there.
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  59 indicators were adopted, but critics say that the process was rushed
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  to come up with these indicators.
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  And some indicators are difficult for many nations to measure.
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  I'm gonna just read out some of these indicators that I
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  was able to drum up here.
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  It's really interesting.
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  We just have like the top 10, but I won't read all 10 'cause they're kind of long.
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  So there's proportion of population living in areas of high water stress due to
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  climate change or facing increased water scarcity under projected climate impacts.
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  Then there's the share of food and agriculture production
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  that is climate resistant.
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  That's an indicator in national production and the number of countries
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  with operational early warning systems of extreme climate events
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  or related events like flood storms, coastal inundation in place and
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  accessible to vulnerable populations.
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  Then there's others, like number of persons or percentage over the
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  population whose livelihoods are supported by adaptation actions.
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  For example, payments for ecosystem based adaptation or employment
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  in climate resilience sectors.
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  A proportion of national and sub-national budget that is allocated
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  to adaption action or is part of the means of implementation and adaption.
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  So there's a bunch of those types of things.
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  59 indicators.
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  But like I've been part of workshops, like science workshops where we come
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  up with indicators, science indicators to measure conservation, to measure
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  indication of protection plans and making sure something's going well.
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  It's extremely difficult to get everybody to agree.
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  It takes years.
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  It doesn't take one meeting to do this.
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  So obviously they're rushed.
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  Now, with that said, there's an argument to be made that these 59
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  that were proposed could change at the next meeting or in between, and
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  others could be proposed instead.
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  There's lots of research that goes into these types of indicators.
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  I'm sure there are a lot of people who are working on those, which would be a
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  good episode to discuss, but I'm sure that if you put up a plan, just like a
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  marine protected area when you put them up, might be a paper park at first.
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  You want to build on that, but at least you get it designated and
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  you can build on it over time.
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  So that could be one of the reasons why they just decided to rush it.
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  Obviously, something that's not great 'cause good indicators actually matter.
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  So they determine how countries, poor coastal erosion, marine ecosystem
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  health, storm impacts, fisheries vulnerability, and sea level risk.
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  In fact, I saw a news piece recently, a video where, I think it was in
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  Alaska where one of the indigenous population new or in populations,
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  their houses were sinking because the frost, like the ground that used to be
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  frozen, the permafrost is now melting.
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  And so their houses are just sinking.
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  You can't have a house that's sinking.
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  They pump out hundreds of gallons a day of water that's coming in and
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  this is where they've been living.
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  This is gonna be an area where they eventually might have to move.
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  And that's very disappointing.
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  And, you know, obviously, very intrusive.
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  It's scary, downright scary for people to live in, that kind of stuff.
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  So that's something that's really dangerous.
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  And then at the end of the ceremonies, they announced a two
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  track system, a new two track system.
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  So this is gonna separate.
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  So there's gonna be political meetings that handle high level commitments, and
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  then there's gonna be technical meetings handling implementation, like data
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  and reporting, and these indicators.
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  Now some critics say that the split weakens the accountability
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  and can hide scientific issues, especially ocean issues.
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  Now, let's be honest here.
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  The ocean always takes a backseat in climate talks.
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  You see a lot of forestry talk, but you don't see a lot of
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  seagrass talk, of kelp talk, of mangrove talk, of salt marsh talk.
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  Those are areas in the ocean where we can maximize and scale up the amount of carbon
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  dioxide that is absorbed in these areas.
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  That is a huge, huge thing.
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  We need to fix that.
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  I don't know how that's gonna get fixed, but we need to bring more
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  ocean issues to the table and not just focus on land issues.
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  This is a huge problem we see in Climate Week New York, Climate Week Toronto.
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  Ocean takes a back seat.
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  Not enough ocean representative at these places.
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  That can't happen anymore.
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  But when you have this two track system of one, politics, politics, politics talk
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  about nothing, which is what they do.
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  You get scientific indicators and all the technical aspects, which
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  without the politics might actually get worked in without people knowing.
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  So, you know, certain indicators that are used or certain research that's done
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  may not get a high level or overview or may not get a lot of exposure.
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  That doesn't mean it's not happening or it doesn't mean it's not going through.
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  And it might take away from any kind of political will.
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  So for instance, we know Donald Trump.
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  When he hears something he doesn't like, he tries to kibosh it right away.
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  What he doesn't know might not hurt him, you know?
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  And same with other countries.
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  What they might not know is pushing forward might not hurt them.
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  So there's that, but that's really bad when we have to think about that though.
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  This process should be done together, should be done with politics, with
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  policy, and as well as the technical teams, as well as the science
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  teams should be working together.
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  But this is not what's happening at this point.
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  So like marine topics often sync to the background when it comes to
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  policy discussions and especially when it becomes separated from science.
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  So let's start getting our politicians and our delegates that are going to these
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  meetings to bring up the oceans more.
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  And that's what we can do, is we can actually just bring this together, and
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  make sure our government representatives are talking about the ocean.
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  That's a big, big thing.
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  It's why do this podcast increase ocean literacy?
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  So if you're a government representative, you're listening to this, let's talk
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  more about the ocean, the good parts, the bad parts, what we need to fix it.
• 13:15
  Every second breath comes from the ocean, and that's because it takes carbon dioxide
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  outta the atmosphere and it returns oxygen, but it can only handle certain
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  amount of carbon dioxide and methane gas and so forth, and greenhouse gases.
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  Alright, one thing that we never talk about at the beginning, and
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  unfortunately, I keep this to the end, unfortunately, I don't know why.
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  However, there are gaps in justice inequity.
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  In fact, at one point during the talks, Gavin Newsom was talking
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  at COP30 at the beginning.
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  And there was a protest, an indigenous protest.
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  A number of representatives from the indigenous communities that in the
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  Amazon came in, they wanted to be heard and they were taken out by security.
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  And it just goes to show that people are not being heard.
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  The government delegates that go there are not talking about the right things.
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  And maybe Gavin Newsom didn't know about this protest when it was
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  happening, but I find it interesting.
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  Gavin Newsom, the Governor of California is a big proponent of going to more
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  renewables and divesting from fossil fuels and, doing something about climate change.
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  But at what point does this not become just like life right now?
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  You have someone who's trying to do something about climate adaptation
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  and climate change and reduce climate change, and then you have this indigenous
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  population that's like, we're losing our homes, our food is changing, our home is
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  like lost because of a lot of different aspects, including deforestation, weather
• 14:30
  changing, rivers changing, and so forth.
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  And here we are.
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  We're not being heard.
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  We don't have a voice.
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  And I think that's a real problem.
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  Also, small island states demanded they wanted more secure protections.
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  We didn't really see much coming outta that.
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  And of course, you know, coastal communities like that depend on
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  reefs, mangroves and fisheries.
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  They don't get their voice heard at these COP30s.
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  That is a disgrace.
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  That should not happen.
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  The people who are affected the most should be the people at the forefront
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  talking about what we need to do and why it has to be so important.
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  Developing countries could adapt better than other countries that may
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  not have the means or the infrastructure to adapt to climate change.
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  But developing countries that can adapt a little bit more,
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  we don't take it seriously.
• 15:11
  We don't take climate change serious enough.
• 15:12
  I'm gonna say that right off the bat.
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  We do not take climate change serious enough.
• 15:16
  We need as developing countries to understand, to stop debating whether
• 15:19
  climate change is happening or not, and to understand, take accountability
• 15:23
  that some of us are causing it more than others, and we need to fix this.
• 15:27
  We need to help other countries out as a planet, not just helping ourselves.
• 15:31
  That's something that has to happen and having these gaps in justice and equity
• 15:35
  at COP30 and any of the COPs is just an absolute disgrace and needs to be changed.
• 15:40
  Now, there is opportunity here.
• 15:43
  To really bring oceans to the main front.
• 15:45
  The big thing is, is storytelling.
• 15:47
  We need to tell the stories of the people, amplify the stories,
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  not just tell the stories.
• 15:51
  Amplify the stories of the people who are affected most by
• 15:54
  climate, change from the ocean.
• 15:56
  And that needs to happen.
• 15:57
  The oceans continue to warm.
• 15:59
  The fact that we don't have any commitment on reducing fossil fuel usage.
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  It's absolutely awful.
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  It's going to affect the ocean in a negative way.
• 16:07
  We're gonna see more bleaching.
• 16:09
  We're gonna see a higher increase in ocean temperatures,
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  which means devastating storms are gonna continue to rise.
• 16:15
  We're gonna see sea level is gonna continue to rise.
• 16:19
  Ocean acidification is going to continue to rise, which is not only gonna
• 16:21
  affect corals, but it's also gonna affect malice like oysters, mussels.
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  This is food that we eat, folks.
• 16:27
  A lot of people depend on this food, not just for luxury, but also just
• 16:31
  they actually need it for sustenance.
• 16:33
  Marine ecosystems that lack funding, they need restoration like seagrass
• 16:37
  restoration and adaptation, but there's not enough funding for ocean.
• 16:41
  We need to ensure that there's enough funding for oceans.
• 16:43
  And then of course, the implementation of all of this will depend on
• 16:46
  the bodies that often do not communicate their work publicly.
• 16:49
  So we need to amplify that communication.
• 16:51
  And this is where science communication comes in.
• 16:53
  Like we can be the bridge.
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  Talk about science, talk about the ocean.
• 16:57
  You have platforms.
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  It doesn't matter how big.
• 16:59
  We all have platforms.
• 17:01
  For a lot of us that are listening to this, a lot of you that are
• 17:02
  listening to this podcast want to do science communication or
• 17:05
  already doing science communication,
• 17:07
  get part of an advocacy group, amplify others who are telling these stories.
• 17:10
  And make sure we understand that divesting away from fossil fuels
• 17:14
  is the best way to reduce climate change impacts and climate change.
• 17:18
  So I think, you know, this is something that, when I look at
• 17:21
  COP30, I rarely see progress.
• 17:23
  I see a lot of uncertainty.
• 17:24
  I see a lot of frustration, but we know the science is actually clear.
• 17:28
  The ocean is absorbing all this carbon dioxide and all this heat
• 17:31
  that our climate system just, it cannot, it can't handle it anymore.
• 17:34
  And if global leaders do not strengthen the commitment soon, the ocean will
• 17:38
  continue to carry out the heaviest burden.
• 17:41
  And we are going to see that firsthand as ocean people, people
• 17:44
  who value the ocean for what it is.
• 17:46
  So the biggest thing that we need to do is support ocean-based climate
• 17:51
  solutions in your own communities.
• 17:53
  That is something that's good.
• 17:54
  Seagrass restoration.
• 17:56
  Mangrove restoration, salt Marsh, coastal wetlands.
• 17:59
  These are gonna be extremely important to protect coral reefs, to protect
• 18:03
  dugongs, to protect all these animals, but also to protect the systems that allow
• 18:07
  us to get oxygen every second breath.
• 18:09
  The ocean, just in general.
• 18:11
  It's gonna be huge.
• 18:12
  So I think this is gonna be interesting to see how this progresses forward.
• 18:16
  Obviously there's a lot of work to do and we have to do it from the ground up.
• 18:19
  'cause obviously the top down is doing absolutely nothing and I think it's
• 18:24
  very, very difficult to deal with.
• 18:25
  I encourage you to continue to follow this episode, this podcast I continue
• 18:30
  to follow others who are speaking on the policy actions in your own countries.
• 18:33
  Support those leaders.
• 18:35
  Become those leaders and let's get the ocean back into the climate talks.
• 18:40
  Let's get climate talks to actually discuss reducing climate change
• 18:43
  and committing to climate change by putting the right people in place.
• 18:47
  And there are a lot of people that are in governments right now that do not
• 18:50
  take this seriously, that are out for greed, out for their billionaire friends.
• 18:54
  And it's just disgusting.
• 18:55
  It's not just the us, it's all around the world and we need to change that.
• 18:59
  But that's what I'm gonna say.
• 19:00
  All I'm gonna say on COP30, I'd love to hear what you think.
• 19:03
  Let me know in the comments below.
• 19:04
  If you're watching this on YouTube, if you're listening to this on your favorite
• 19:07
  podcast app, Apple, Amazon Music, Spotify, whatever that might be, hit me up on
• 19:12
  Instagram at how to protect the Ocean.
• 19:14
  It's at How to Protect the Ocean.
• 19:16
  DM Me.
• 19:16
  I would love to hear your thoughts and of course, you can go speak up for blue.com/.
• 19:21
  contact to contact me through my email.
• 19:22
  Just fill out the form.
• 19:23
  I wanna thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the
• 19:26
  How to Protect the Ocean Podcast.
• 19:27
  I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True Nords Strong and Free.
• 19:30
  Have a great day.
• 19:31
  We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.