Latest / Trackside with Maddie Mooney / Lindsey Butler - Episode 2 - Trackside with Maddie Mooney
Transcript
- RunnerSpace Productions: Welcome to Track Side with Maddie Mooney. I'm Maddie Mooney and today's guest is Lindsay Butler. Lindsay is an American fifteen hundred meter runner who has had an excellent first year post college running. She has run fast times over and over again, finished up very high in very elite races, and even got a bronze medal in the US indoor championships in the fifteen hundred. Yet despite her long list of accolades, which we get into in the episode, she remains sponsorless. So tune in to hear how Lindsay manages working her job and training full time, ⁓ how she navigates going through both the US and the European season without the help of a sponsor behind her back. ⁓ and just for an entertaining episode, Lindsay is hilarious. Okay, we are here with Lindsay Butler, who's actually in Europe right now, joining us from the other side of the world. ⁓ how are you, Lindsay? I'm good. I'm hitting week two or three over in Europe. So the jet lag's gone. ⁓ the homesickness is like setting in the tiniest bit. ⁓ but it's been a really good experience and I'm getting ready for my second race pace job overseas in Zurich. So ⁓ so yeah, I'm excited. What what are you racing and pacing? What I'm pacing the Zurich ⁓ Diamond League fifteen hundred. ⁓ wow. I bet that's gonna be a hefty a hefty pace. What do they have in you do? honestly, it's kind of an honest pace. ⁓ like just below four flat, I think like below two ⁓ eight through The 800, which is funny because that's kind of the pace my coach and I have been training all season. So ⁓ so we're not not doing anything we haven't done before, just you know, doing it for a different cause this time. Right. So for anybody tuning in who who isn't as ⁓ following the running scene, I guess, as closely closely as I am, Lindsay Butler is one of the best 1500 meter runners in the US right now. She has been on an absolute tear this season. But for whatever reason, Lindsay does not have a contract. ⁓ so just to kind of go over some of your accolades really quick, you were the 2022 NCAA champion in the indoor 800, right? Is that the right year? Twenty twenty-two, an eight-time NCA champion, four-time ACC champion, been to the Olympic trials th three times, I believe. and most most recently, ran the ⁓ got a bronze medal at the indoor fifteen hundred at for at the US championships. So quite a resume. You know, you think of anybody else who has who has the times you do and the accolades you do and you would think that they have ⁓ some brand repping repping them on the chest. So it'd be really it it'll be interesting to dive into that today and ⁓ kind of hear how being an unsponsored athlete, how how you operate with that and with working a job full time. So ⁓ to get us started, who is your coach? Who are you training under and training with? I train under Ben Thomas. So ⁓ he came back to Virginia Tech my fifth year. ⁓ to preface I did a million years of college. ⁓ so yeah, he came back to Virginia Tech my fifth year, was my coach my sixth year, and now ⁓ I'm kind of finishing up my first rookie year. ⁓ so he's got ⁓ kind of a small ⁓ post collegiate group that he coaches as well. So we're just yeah, base based out of Blacksburg, Virginia, been there since freshman year of college. Yeah, you and me both. I did the six year I took every year I would have come back for a seventh year if I could have in college. I took it every year possible. ⁓ and do you have ⁓ people you train with under or under Ben or are you do you do a lot of solo workouts? ⁓ every year looks a little bit different. so during the collegiate season ⁓ on top of some of the post-collegiate girls I trained with were pretty heavily integrated with the Virginia Tech team. ⁓ which I love. Obviously, like those were my teammates and now they still are, just in a different way. ⁓ but yeah, there there was once ⁓ two other girls, post-collegiate under Ben Thomas, ⁓ which now to down to just one. ⁓ but she ended the season ⁓ kind of early in the outdoor season because of an injury. So Ever since NCAAs has been finished, ⁓ and some of the girls did their last few like summer races, it has just been myself on the ladies' side under Ben Thomas. So ⁓ I think he started feeling a little bad at some point in the summer. He started throwing me in ⁓ some workouts with ⁓ with Cole and the other guys, doing like, you know, the first half of whatever rep they would be doing. The Wolves with the Olympic champions. Good luck. It's what it felt like. That's awesome. So, ⁓ since you've been in Europe right now, you're are you're just with your coach. You're by yourself with your coach and some of the guys. Yeah, yeah, actually, so yeah, it was ⁓ me, Ben Thomas, Cole, and Chris that came, ⁓ Chris Jackson that came out to Lucerne. ⁓ I think We have some connections here, so that's why it made ⁓ more sense to base here versus some of the other kind of hot spots in the summer. and I was very lucky that my parents wanted to come out too and make a little vacation out of it. So so yeah, right now it's just my parents and I here in Lucerne, because Coach Thomas and Cole and Chris were ⁓ are over in Poland holding it down. So somebody's gotta hold it down Lucerne. Wait, that's so sweet. Your parents came out. Is this like new country for all three all of guys? ⁓ funny enough, well, for me, my mom, yes. For my dad, he's been to Lucerne a ton of times for business. ⁓ with that being said, ⁓ I think I kind of know this city better than he does, even though he's been here like close to ten times. but yeah, it's it I think ⁓ It's just as much of a kind of vacation and cool experience for me as it is for them. So ⁓ so yeah, I'm grateful they came out 'cause, you know, it would also get a little lonely being in a foreign country, ⁓ all by yourself. Yeah. When I did my just in my ⁓ Europe stint in July, I was in ⁓ Belgium for a week by myself and that meet didn't give any accommodations or anything. And so my mom flew out too and I like, This such a cute mother daughter bonding. Like let's go explore a new country together. It really is. It is so much fun. That's awesome. ⁓ do you guys get up to anything today? I know it's it's evening for you over there. Did you guys do any any exploring? ⁓ today actually, today it was a very productive day. I bought a wedding dress here. ⁓ that's not exactly like something that you can't do anywhere else. but yeah, in general, like You know, as much as this is, you know, kind of a cool vacation, being in a new country, new area, the priority of the day is training and usually that's twice a day. So we'll fit in some nice ⁓ like lake days or just walking around the ⁓ Lcerna surrounding areas. But ⁓ it's not quite as adventurous as ⁓ my Europe trips of the past. I can say that. Well, that is a successful day. And I was meaning to bring up later to talk about your engagement in the wedding coming up. When is the wedding, by the way? Dv D. I I I feel like I I can't I can't set a date until this season is done. ⁓ I feel like every every girl runner can relate. You can only you can only balance so much. So that's that's something I'm very excited to to get to in the off season. Right. Wow, well that's so fun. You got a wedding dress. That is so exciting. Yeah. It's been a good day. Yeah. Expensive day. Yeah, that's true. So when you ⁓ are planning your trips in general, but especially a trip going over to Europe and being gone for a long time. How can you walk me through like how do you approach that without when you're like, do you work with an agent to figure out the meets and the locations and stuff? Is it your coach who's giving you a lot of that? Because I know like for me, I was like I have no like I'm on world athletics, like blindly scrolling, trying to figure out what meets I should be going to, you know? So can you kinda walk through like what is your process as just like an individual athlete in deciding what meets are gonna be worth it, ha figuring out who's gonna even be at them, if it's gonna be a fast race or not, and and how you figure out where you're gonna be based at while you're in Europe. Yeah, I feel very lucky that despite ⁓ you know not being tied to like a major brand. I have ⁓ two very good ⁓ or I guess I should say three very good structures for making my schedule. So ⁓ my coach, Coach Thomas is ⁓ I would say kind of the first person that gets a say in all my races. He is ⁓ very much in the know I feel like for For a coach, he he knows of course the big races and then he's the person that knows about the tiny little race that's going on in Poland that you like can't even find on World Athletics and you're like, How do you know that? Who do you talk to? ⁓ but I also am under Howie management. So, between Howie and John, ⁓ they're the ones that are, yeah, kind of ⁓ negotiating for me. So I think I'm I'm very lucky. I I I think a lot of athletes, their coaches aren't quite as what's the word, ⁓ particular about the races they're in and the timing of it and everything. But ⁓ that's one of the the great things about Coach Thomas and the very mysterious or particular things from a di from that other people think about him is yeah, he's very picky about races. ⁓ so that's the first person I have to run it through and then I go to ⁓ Howie Management and they usually ⁓ pull the strings and most of the time get me in. Right. So then when you figure out what races you're going to, are you on your own figuring out the flights and like where you're gonna stay and you know, unless it's ⁓ a meet prob a lot of them provide accommodations over in Europe. But like are you kinda on your own figuring out that schedule? ⁓ yes, but that is a ⁓ kind of a choice I made myself. I think ⁓ a lot of agents do offer I guess that service, ⁓ with, you know, an expectation that ⁓ you'll pay them back at some point. ⁓ but being the type A person that I am, just in life as a whole, I like being able to plan that. I like ⁓ spending way too many hours on ⁓ on Google trying to find like the best, most logical hotel for a meet. Is it the best use of my time? Maybe not. ⁓ but it it's something I I like to do. I like to be more involved in that sense. But I know there's plenty of people with agents who are not sponsored that, yeah. Let them do all that work. Right. Yeah, you're so opposite of me. I'm like I just want somebody to tell me tell me where I'm gonna stay and then I can like critique it when I get there if it was the right choice or not. But when it's on me like when I was just when I was in ⁓ Belgium I had a Airbnb for the week and I get got there late at night, like ten thirty, and I walk and I get to the apartment and the host was just hanging out in there and I was like, What is going on? And he was like, ⁓ hey, like I'll get out of your hair now. Like I just need to go grab my charger from the room and like but he was just like chilling in there. And I was like, I wish I had somebody else to blame for this but myself. Like this was on ⁓ I booked this. I didn't read the reviews carefully, and this is on me. So that's funny. so are you racing in any ⁓ more eight hundreds this season, or are you kind of strictly fifteen hundred now? ⁓ You know, if it was purely up to me, my coach, and what we wanted to do, I think I would have gotten some more eight hundreds in this year. But you know, despite being an eight hundred meter national champ many moons ago, that actually does not get you into a lot of races. ⁓ so ⁓ I mean we've you know, the training I've been doing the last year or two has definitely been more tailored towards fifteen hundred. ⁓ but at the end of the day, I Have a very hard time getting an 800 meter races. ⁓ so that's kind of why most of my schedule has become fifteens and miles. ⁓ I was supposed to do an 800 at Bungstadt in Germany, which seems to be pretty popular meet for a lot of the athletes that are in Europe right now. ⁓ but when I got the call to Zurich and I saw the money behind it, I said, gotta make a decision here. Yeah. Yeah, I know. It seems like n like Everyone and their mother can run like a sub two minute eight hundred now. So I'm not surprised that it's hard to get into those like elite eight hundred meter races. yeah, I know we were talking before we started recording this about how you've been ⁓ just kind of repeatedly hitting that four ⁓ six over and over and over again. this sea this whole season in general. I know I I paced one of your races that you ran a four ⁓ six in. Like you've been you've been doing four ⁓ six. So ⁓ what are of your goals heading into these last few ones? Like do you have a time in mind or just looking to get like race just erase the race kind of thing? Yeah, I think it's a a time in mind and a race in mind. I think ⁓ I keep kind of finding myself in races that maybe are how do I word this? I think everybody wants to find themselves in a race where they just get dragged along to a really fast time. ⁓ I think I was in maybe one race like that this season and it just wasn't wasn't the day for me to just, you know, go with the current. ⁓ and all the other races I've been in, I think it just ⁓ you know, they've been fast. Four ⁓ six is a you know, is a honest pace, but ⁓ I'm just very excited to hopefully hopefully get dragged to as close to four flat as I can. I think I've been getting really comfortable in practice and in races, ⁓ getting out close to that kind of 208 pace, which would get you there. ⁓ and then it's just a matter of ⁓ yeah, I guess riding the wave ⁓ for the next 700. ⁓ so fingers crossed, you know, pacing duties in Zerk, but after that, ⁓ two more races to to hopefully make it happen. So when you are pacing and racing at these these big meets that get a lot of you know, a lot of people tune in and watch them, do you have a preference of the like a brand you want to be wearing or want to be representing in them? Or like just given given where you're at in your professional career and like wanting to sign with someone, I'm assuming. is that like Do you care what brand you're wearing at all? Or are you trying to like completely neutral? I know you were part of the Bandit project for ⁓ USA's. ⁓ but like as far as like what spikes you're wearing and stuff, what do you what's your thought process there? ⁓ I think my thought process has changed a lot in the last year. I think I had the opportunity to work with a bigger brand that. had really big names associated with them and and that was really cool and it served a purpose, but I think You know, ⁓ I don't know. For for a lot of brands it is just it's just kind of business. It's just kind of signing on the next athlete. And ⁓ you know, I'm I'm not saying I wanna become ⁓ like the face of a franchise or the the face of a brand or anything, but I think it it would be nice to be part of ⁓ you know, maybe a a brand where I could contribute more or have a little bit more of like a I don't know personal role ⁓ with the company. I think ⁓ yeah, like Nike's awesome. Everybody loves Nike Spikes. I wear Nike Spikes, but you know, you sign on to Nike and you just become a face in a sea of, you know, very accomplished athletes. And I think ⁓ you know, that would be great and that would serve a purpose. But ⁓ yeah, after I've had a year to think about it, maybe that's not exactly what would feel the most fulfilling or yeah, make me feel like my hard work was for something. Right. Yeah, I get that. And I think like for when I think of my own running journey as an unsponsored athlete, I'm just like like I tried I I'll race in Under Armour spikes a lot and it's not necessarily because I like really like Under Armour. Like I mean I like Under Armour. It's ⁓ one of the many big brands, but like my friend works at Under Armour and she can give me discounted spikes. So I'm like, yeah, I'll wear like they like they fit fine, I'll wear them kind of thing, you know? ⁓ Yeah, so I get that. So it's kind of it's interesting to think of like what brand like we you would want to be representing in, you know, who knows I know. Who knows who's like actually looking to sign more people or like wanting to bring in another person to their sea of great runners, as you said. You work a job part time, right? Mm-hmm. Yep. How does that can you walk me through like what a workout day when you're like peak training time? You're you're in Blacksburg, a workout day, maybe you got a double, I don't know, I don't know what your training looks like, but you're also working your job. Like what does wake up time look like? What does your day look like? Do you have any free time at all? Like can you just walk me through that? So funny enough, usually in a week, in a work week, the workout days are like the least stressful day of the week for me. ⁓ and that's usually because all of our other days of the week are doubles and our kind of like main workout of the week, which usually falls on a Tuesday, ⁓ it'll just be a quick, you know, shakeout in the morning and then like a very long three hour session. And Tuesdays also happen to be my early day at work, which, you know, depending on how you look at it, that kind of sucks, or it is what it is. ⁓ but yeah, if I was painting a a regular Tuesday, it's wake up around seven, get a short shakeout in, ⁓ be at work by eight thirty. ⁓ generally leave work around two thirty, maybe three, ⁓ head straight to the track. And yeah, probably have the workout started by around three thirty or four. ⁓ I find that in a regular day, ⁓ once I finally get to that afternoon session when I feel like I've just been on the clock and rushed all day, it's when I can finally decompress. And even though I have a workout ahead of me, the hardest part of my day is kind of done. And yeah, I'll get there early. I'll really enjoy doing whatever kind of prehab I have time to do. ⁓ and then yeah, if the workout starts maybe 3 34, it's done around seven about. or a little before, depends on how much I dilly dally. And then I get to go home for the first time in almost, you know, eleven hours that day. ⁓ and then food doesn't make itself, so you gotta cook dinner and then Just kinda gotta get ready for the next day, which is usually a double that starts early in the morning. So ⁓ yeah, it is I'm no stranger to kind of having like eleven hour days out of the house. ⁓ I think I started my job in my last two months of my N C double A like college eligibility. ⁓ I actually started it when I was finishing school, which wasn't really my best decision, but That was a huge adjustment and it kind of showed in the results. ⁓ at the very end of my NCAA career. It was, you know, not bad, but a little underwhelming. ⁓ but yeah, then I kind of got used to the routine. And I think ⁓ you know, when you're a college runner and you tell people that, you know, you d go on ten mile long runs and you do doubles every day, they always say, ⁓ my gosh, how do you do that? It's like, well, because I have to. You if you don't if you have to do it, you don't think about how much it sucks and yeah, that's kind of how my job operates. Although I love my job. My job doesn't suck. I'm I am like genuinely impressed. Like I thank you. I I worked I was doing trying to do I was working in person full time for a while and trying to do track workouts afterwards when I my first summer out of college. And it was just like the it was so tough like all my friends would be like, We're going to trivia tonight. Like, you wanna come? And I'm like, No, I gotta commute home and then do a track workout and then it's gonna be eight PM and I have like get ready for bed and start all over tomorrow. So the fact that you don't get home until seven PM when you leave the house that early, I'm I'm I'm already was in awe of everything you you were accomplishing in your career, but like, that's that's insane. My I live with a professional Nike athlete and like she Part of like her day is taking a nap every day. And like it I'm always irritated when I'm sitting there working from you know, now I I'm lucky I can do a lot of remote work, which helps with running. But ⁓ yeah, like kudos to you. Like that's awesome. And you're right, it's just like it's what I do. Like it's I make it work 'cause I want it to work. So that's awesome. Exactly. Do you think like is that one of the hardest parts for you about being unsponsored is balancing like having to work a whole another job while you're working the job of running essentially. Like I know like whatever you want to call it right now. I I feel like I always call it like a glorified hobby. Like I'm my hobby is my most important thing to me right now is like running. But ⁓ is that like is that the biggest challenge or what do you think? What's been the hardest part about being unsponsored? I I don't think balancing the job is too hard. I mean, I think I have the utmost respect for what you were doing because at the end of the day I work twenty five hours a week and I know that is the absolute max that I can do. I think if I even tried to up to up it to thirty or, you know, God forbid forty hours a week, I would just be burning it on both ends. so I I think working the job provides really good balance. I think ⁓ you know, as much as I wish I could be the professional athlete that prioritizes napping in between sessions, I think ⁓ I do a lot better with more simulation in a day. I think when I go to work, I focus on work and I focus very well on work. And when I go to practice, I focus on practice and there's nothing else that gets in the way of that. And I think I think maybe the tough part is to what you said, reminding yourself that this is a hobby and you are choosing to do it without giving yourself an out. ⁓ I think, you know, after a kind of a tough race when you're cooling down by yourself and you're thinking, Man, I really could just hang up the spikes. Like there's there's no there's nothing contractually making me show up to the next race. I think if you ⁓ let your mind wander too far that way, yeah, then you can kind of get down on yourself. ⁓ but at the end of the day, I think, I don't know, a sponsorship only matters as much as you want it to. If if you really want to let that kind of be the defining marker of success, then yeah, I guess you and I both just had bad seasons. But it's like if if that is just kind of a secondary goal and you know, the the PRing and the accomplishments in the races and stuff, if you let that be the priority, then ⁓ then yeah, we had some we both had a great season this year. So true. Yeah. That's kind of a roundabout answer, but maybe you get the gist. I get the gist. And I really I like the way you put that because I feel like even this far into my running career, like it's still so easy to compare yourself to other people. Or especially I'm the worst at like I used to beat that girl every time I raced her and now she's pro for this company and whatever. But I like I really like how you put that. Like getting a co ha be having a contract is really only as important as you make it. I feel like I've come to the realization that like I can achieve all of my running goals and like I think I will achieve all of my running goals without like without I have my I have my community and my people and my village, but like without a sponsor and that's I mean, what does that that doesn't make me any less professional in what I'm doing day in and day out with this. ⁓ so yeah, I like how you I like how you put that. what do you do on days when your job is very demanding or like you're just feeling feeling drained. Do you have any tips to like turn it around quick for your second for whatever your run or your workout afterwards? I think ⁓ there My biggest approach is just ⁓ so all of the runs, all of the practices, everything is based out of Rector Field House, which is Virginia Tech's indoor track. And I think, yeah, if it's if it's been a long day, if I've been in the office for kind of more than my regular five hour day, I'll give myself a good thirty minutes to just decompress whatever that looks like. If I'm, you know, really leaning into self-care, it's doing prehab before the practice or the workout. If if it's just been that kind of day, it's yeah, let myself sit on my phone. But ⁓ I guess just ⁓ it's been a long day. I'm not rushing myself into the next session. I think ⁓ that kind of is where the the burnout can come is yeah, mornings are very rushed. Getting to work's very rushed. Getting from work to practice can be very rushed. But yeah, once I'm there in the afternoon, it's like I'm in the clear and I have to remind myself of that. Right. I really enjoyed following you on social media, like on TikTok, how you've you're just so humorous about your day. Like when you're doing those, ⁓ like the pictures throughout the whole day and like making like jokes throughout it. Like it is it is ⁓ it's fun to tune in and feel like I can see what's going on in your in your work day life as you go from work like run to work to cross train every day and stuff. Yeah. ⁓ okay. It's not glamorous in the slightest, but it's fine. Right. ⁓ one last question before we wrap things up. But if you were to talk to the Lindsay Butler who was in her peak at ⁓ Virginia Tech, like at the height of whatever you consider the height of your college career there, what advice would you give her now, now that you're almost rounding out one full year as a post collegiate athlete? I I think a very important and maybe hard lesson I learned ⁓ that Peak Lindsay would need to know and I probably junior year Lindsay would need to know, maybe fresh off of her N C double A title is ⁓ the recency bias for better or for worse is huge in this sport. ⁓ you know, the brands, the meats, whoever it is, they really only care about, you know, your kind of most recent performances and That can be for better or for worse. I think. I wish the recency bias e recency bias wasn't so strong. So maybe I could have secured a sponsorship out of college, but ⁓ it's also been great because I can go into these races, kind of knowing how capable I am, even if ⁓ if I'm flying under the radar on the start line. So ⁓ yeah, just reminding her that ⁓ You just kinda gotta enjoy the moment and ⁓ and not let any past performances get in the way. Cause I think the past performances really got in the way for senior year Lindsay. ⁓ but you know, it's the sport. We learn as we go. ⁓ and that's what I learned. Very true. I ⁓ I love watching you beyond these starting lines with like a ton of people wearing different brands and then you go and you just beat like basically the whole field, you know, most of the field every time. Like it's it is so like just like BA. Like it's so it is so fun to watch and it has like me as a fan sitting there thinking, like, what is going like how many times does she have to beat these runners from this specific group before like somebody starts paying attention? so I think I feel like it's it's coming six you know, you're already success already has come for you and I think it it's gonna keep coming. So ⁓ I appreciate you joining and being so being like vulnerable about this and just open about ⁓ your your day to day as an unsponsored athlete. ⁓ I like that it doesn't it doesn't define you by any means. Like you have a very a very brand big brand, I feel like that's associated with Lindsay Butler. so yeah, thanks for joining. Yeah, of course. Thanks for having me. Yes. Have a great rest of your night. I bet you're probably going to sleep soon over there, but have a great rest of your night. All right. Bye, Lindsay. Bye guys. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode with Lindsay Butler. If you want to watch more of Track Side with Maddie Mooney, tune into Runner Space or Athletic online, or check us out on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. If you or somebody you know would be a good fit for this show, email me at Maddie. dot mooney at athletic dot net.