Latest / Sutra Squad / Ep. 33 Sutra 2.39 on the Fifth Yama - Aparigraha or Non-Covetousness

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Ep. 33 Sutra 2.39 on the Fifth Yama - Aparigraha or Non-Covetousness · Sutra Squad

• Seth Barron: Hi Sutra Squad family. Before we start today's episode, we wanted to extend a special invitation for you to join us at Sacred India 2027, our pilgrimage along the sacred Ganges River in India. We'll be starting in Dev Prayag, where the last tributaries connect and the Ganga begins. We'll go down to the holy city of Rishikesh. We'll go on to Praya Graj, where the Yamuna meets the Ganges and this mystical Sarasvati River is said to join, and ending the trip in the holiest of holy cities. Varanasi, and every day we'll offer yogic practice. I'm gonna be offering power. I'll be offering satsang on the Yoga Sutra. And I'll be offering restorative yin and nature practice. Plus, if you've ever wanted to see the magic of the Sutra Squad podcast, we'll be recording a few special live episodes along the way. So all the information is live at sutrasquad.com. Click on the link for pilgrimage. You can find everything you need to know, and we really hope you'll be able to join us. On with the show. I think the power is in not bypassing, and the power is in a non punitive kind questioning. What do I think the craving is gonna bring me? That either I think I need or I think I do not have right now. Hello, welcome to the Sutra Squad Podcast brought to you by One Deep Breath. My name is Seth Barron, and I'm joined by the superstar Sutra Squad Sarah Page Hall. Hello, hello, hello. And Sally Moore. Welcome. Okay, one word, really though. One word. Right now. Yes. Greatful. Sarah Page, one word. Lucky. ⁓ my word is full. Full. ⁓ okay. So we are we are in like the like this really juicy, delicious phase of our study together where we've been really like we're we're climbing the limbs of the ashtanga, the eight limbed yoga system. And the first of those eight limbs of Yama, Ni Yama, Asana, Prana Yama, Pratyhara, Dharana, Dhyana Samadhi is the Yamas. And the Yamas are the I think of it somewhat sort of like the yamas are the the outward facing, ⁓ like moral code, you could say, of yoga, or the sort of like the way we are to live in the world. And the first and foundation of all of that, like the foundation of the foundation of the of this system is ahimsa, to not cause harm or to nonviolence. And and the teaching is that when we are firmly established in that practice, all enmity ceases. And it's that sense of like when somebody is really mad and you just like take a deep breath and say to them, like, wow, it sounds like you're really upset. All of a sudden they are like or they're really or they just sort of or you just say, ⁓ I'm so sorry. And they like we're all geared up to like get mad at you and then you just like say I'm really sorry. Didn't mean to do that. Like like tell me more about how that impacted you. And and like it's a it's a it's an amazing practice to tr to try on. That when you are peaceful, people around you it extends in a way that you might not expect. And then the second of the yamas is satya, truth. And we talked about how like there's the truth of the material world, which is that like everything changes, and there's the truth of the spiritual world, which is that which is beyond time, space, context that like it that stays the same, and how we sit with that. And then ⁓ a steia to to not steal or not take what's not ours and that like that when we are firmly established there the jewel these like jewels of wisdom come to us. So it's it's not really like the literal like when you don't steal you get wealth. It's a little bit more subtle but ⁓ but richer than that too. And then last week we had this really rich, delicious conversation about Brahmacharya. Which is sometimes translated as celibacy, but it's more like continence or intentional direction of energy, or you could even say, ⁓ like Brahma, ⁓ creation, divine presence, like it is like to walk with Brahma. It's like, is everything in your life walking with Brahma? Like, are you in alignment and attuned with Brahma? That bigger creation all around you, and it's every aspect of your life toward the appreciation, celebration of that divine presence. And tonight, today, this afternoon, whenever you're listening, we we're gonna talk about a parigraha, which is the last of the yamas. And it's a tongue twister, so I hope I hope I get through it. The Sanskrit, anyway, is a tongue twister. So ⁓ as we do, we're just gonna take a moment to be still, maybe just turn your attention inward if it is safe for you to do so. It never ceases to amaze me that one breath can make such a powerful shift in your space. And if you are in a place where you can do that, here's your invitation to just sit up tall, just notice the physical organization of your body. And take a deep breath in. And take a deep breath out. And if you like, you can join me for one vibration of om inhale. Mm. This is verse two in the second chapter, thirty nine, the thirty ninth verse. Apari graha stere jamakatanta sambodha. ⁓ Habsti Janma Katamta Sambo. Ab styre Janma Sambo. I did it. I was practicing that one. That word is really interesting. Jan Makatamta. Well, so apari graha is often translated as non-greed or non-covetousness, or like not reaching beyond our grasp. If you're It all interested in such things, Reverend Jagannath Carrera has a stunning book inside Patanjali's words where he really breaks down the root words inside these like compounded words of Sanskrit. And ⁓ in this case I think it's very, very, very interesting. So he like the the ⁓ is the not, the negation. Like ahimsa, right? Like to not cause harm, to not do something that is himsa or harmful or violent or ⁓ injurious in this case. So ⁓ not. And then pari is like toward, against, away, or around. Like parivrita is the term in Sanskrit for an asana that is revolved. Right? Parivrita trikonasana is revolved triangle. So then graha, which is like holding, seizing, like like grah to grab. Right? Like sometimes these words, like it's no coincidence that these words sound like the words that they mean because Sanskrit is the it's said by some that it is like the language of languages. It's like the root of all of it. So then like ⁓ so like when we think about that, so like so like ⁓ so it's like don't like and then party, like all around. It's like don't grab all around. I think it reveals a deeper, sort of more subtle understanding of the principle. And then this word style. And not to be too nerdy about the grammar, but just for a moment I'm gonna get a little bit, which is that in the first four verses, the language is like the the the ⁓ the principle of the yama, and then there's this word, ⁓ pratistayam. Brahmacharya Pratistayam, Asteya Pratistayam, Satya Pratistayam, Ahimsa Pratistayam. So there's a root that you can hear that is the same, stha. And ⁓ in Sanskrit, H sounds are aspirated sounds. Like it's spelled, if you ever look at the English of this, like a T H. So like the way I pronounce my name, Seth. Sanskrit doesn't have a th sound when a T and an H are next to each other. It's like ⁓ you make both sounds. Tha is sort of the way to think about you like you push air through that h. So stha, s t a, it's not stha. ⁓ stha to stand, like firmly, like to ground down into a position. Right? So if you think like rvasthasana, samastitihi. Right, which are ervastasana, extended mountain is the way it's usually translated, or like upward reaching, upward standing pose erv is up ⁓ st right, so ervasta asana. so here that's the same root st, but it's not pratistayam, which means which we've translated before is like firmly established in. Here it's ⁓ sta Which Jagannath Correra ⁓ translates as unwavering. And so there's this like almost added like oomph to the principle, like of what arises when one is so like grounded, like like ground down into this like non grasping for beyond our reach, non coveting, ⁓ Or non like possessiveness, right? Because another dynamic of grabbing is like it implies this like strong grasp. If you think about like when little kids grab at stuff, like sometimes they're little mm, they're little fisties. Like if you've ever had little kids who grab at something, I wear a lot of jewelry. And I remember like when the first time I had a little, little baby in my life, my godson who had his who was in high school, ⁓ but like the first time I realized that like he was gonna grab like at my glasses, at my at any bracelet. Like I'd have to go, like w ⁓ I saw him a lot when he was an infant. ⁓ even though he was in San Francisco and I lived here in New York 'cause I was out there a lot for work at the time. And I had to like take off all my jewelry because one time he like really grabbed on. And like I like that that little those little bibbies can be grabby. So like think about it when you're an adult, like grasping or grabbing at something. It implies this like really like like there's like all this tension implied in that word, like to grab or grasp. ⁓ so before we like get so now let's like start to put some of this together. Janma is life, kathamta is the meaning of life, and sambodha is awakens, right? Bodha, like buddhi or bodhi is like all of these are referencing awakening. Or awareness or like the the gl the the arising of awareness. ⁓ like like even the word like the name Bodhi is like awakened. ⁓ what an auspicious name for one of Sally's grandchildren. Not that I'm outing him, but like I've always said and I will continue to say it is an auspicious birth to be Sally's grandchild. So maybe I'll throw it to you, Sally, because I know you always have an interesting point of view. Like what's a translation of this whole verse that really stood out to you or that really like called to your heart? Carrying on a little bit on the commentary from Kerrara in the inside Bitanjali's words, the end goal of a pay graha is to awaken the meaning of life. This includes the meaning of our own lives, the significance of events that come our way, and more incredibly the meaning of existence itself. Such an attainment requires an absolute firm, unwavering state of freedom from craving that has no hint of self denial. But is instead rooted in the mind saturated with the required patience, openness, and delight. And I just really like that that explanation was amazing. ⁓ I have a few. I'll share also We read we read Jagannath Carrera's whole translation because I think it's really I think it's really illiterate. So are you out of the ⁓ Patangile? In in bas in in Patangile's words, like how he translates the full verse. So yeah, what I really I have two of his books, so if I could quickly read Both translations, because he does them slightly different, which I love. We were talking about earlier the gift of being able to look at different translations, because words are hard to switch into English often. ⁓ so in from Inside Patanjali's Words by Reverend Jagannath Kra, the meaning of life awakens when freedom from sense cravings is unwavering. So that was the first one I came across. And then freedom from sense craving like what he refers to as apagraha. I just want to add that little commentary. Like so his like his hi like ⁓ the meaning of life awakens when freedom from sense craving is like is is un again unwavering. Which is pretty amazing way to think about. And then in this other book ⁓ inside the Yoga Sutras, ⁓ he said To one established in non greed, a thorough illumination of how the how and why of one's birth comes. And this one, the commentary that ⁓ he didn't have a ton of commentary, but he said, When free of greed, we gain the ability to see how our desires affect what we experience in life. We will discover not only how cravens brought certain experiences into this birth, but how powerful past desires propelled us from our past life into this one. And that took me a minute to sit with. Sarah Page, is there any translation? Like what's another translation? Cause I think this one's especially rich to like look at a bunch of different perspectives around like how we under how we understand what this principle means. Yeah, I d of course I went into inside Patanjali's words. And so Sally but what I loved, and I'm gonna do a little coordination because they say the same things in different ways. Like I also loved Ayengar. ⁓ Yeah, what did Master Ayengar say, though? Translation. He's such a grumpy old man, he really is when he does this thing. He's just like this, you know, he just seems he's like he's always angry. But in this one, he said something that I thought was interesting. I think his his Whatever he said, he goes, Knowledge of past and future lives unfold when one is free from greed and possessions, which is what everybody has said. But then he goes to say it again more slowly, please. ⁓ yeah, it wasn't a little quick one. Again more slowly. Knowledge of past and future lives unfolds when one is free from greed for possessions, greed for having more. I need this, I need this, having it. But then what I love is he says a parigraha is the subtlest aspect of Yama. And difficult to master. Yet repeated attempts must be made to gain pure knowledge of, and here it goes, what I am and what am I meant for. Let me repeat that. He says, repeated attempts, and he also says it's the subtlest of the aspect of the yamas. And it's interesting. He goes, repeated attempts must be made to gain pure knowledge of what I am and what am I meant for. And I love that. And then he said, you know. He goes on he it was wonderful. He he wasn't grumpy in this particular translation. Sometimes he is. But what I also loved in ⁓ Deborah Dell in ⁓ the Yamas and the Niamas, this particular Yama, I have it all highlighted, dog eared, everything from what she said. I loved what she said. It says non-attachment does not mean that we don't care or that we don't somehow or that we somehow shut ourselves off from the pleasures and joys of life and each other. But what we're asked to let go of is the non clinging to the thing. Not the enjoyment, but the non clinging of the thing. So and it goes to presence, doesn't it? Being in the present moment, enjoying that moment, and then how many times. Do we have like a great experience and then we go back to it again and we want to experience the exact same thing? And you can't. You can't. And so we've clung to that moment as opposed to just really savoring the moment. And what is the word that that ⁓ that Jagannath Korea says that is so beautiful? It was Freedom from Scraving. No patience, openness, but delight. I love the word delight. So it you know, when we when we cling to something, we are robbing ourselves of that delight, of the moment, of the of the minute. And something that Deborah Dell says that she goes, What possesses you? You know, what is it? Let me get it right. Well what you possesses. What we possess possesses you. And it's so true. I mean, think about it. Our cars, our phones, our where we live, how we live, you know. We could go on and on. It's pernicious. Yeah. Like And can I give a few more things out of Deborah Dell's ⁓ the Yamas and the Niams? 'Cause I thought she had some great commentary on it. Agreed. She said can we simply can we simply think about ⁓ a pay graha's being able to let go? A pay graha invites us to let go and to pack lightly for the journey through life, all the while caring deeply and enjoying fully. What if we could trust life trust life like we do trust the breath? What if we could take in all the nourishment of the moment and then let it go fully, trusting that more nourishment will come? Like the breath, when it's held too long, the things that nourish us can become toxic. And that's the line you saw was what we possess possesses us. Anything we cling to creates a maintenance problem. I love too what she says is you know, she has a trapeze for everybody, everybody should have the Yamas and the Niyamas by Deborah Adele. They just should. It's just a good book. It's so accessible. Yeah. Yeah. If you've never if you've never studied this stuff before and you want a good, like it's a great place to start practical. It's a it's a really good one. Yeah. But she talks about, and it's true, we have spoken here a lot about how fear is at the root of everything. Releasing It's terrifying. She has a great analogy and story about a trapeze artist, you know, swinging back and forth in the air. Terrifying, letting go, even more so. But that's what you have to do if you want to move forward, if you want to get to your end goal. So, and that's kind of the reference to that Ayengar, Master Ayengar was saying is that it who are you? And you can't find out if you're holding on to other things. And I learned a little, I've never been a trapeze artist in my life. But what I did learn a little bit when she was talking about that is there's a moment where you have to let go of both bar like you're not, you're floating. And if you hang on too much, which would probably be why I'm not bad, because I'd still be you can't get to the other one. And so I do really love that if we enjoy the fullness of where we are and then trust that moment of floating to where we're going, you know? Yeah. There's there's a I wanna weave this a little bit too to a couple other ideas that we've talked about. So one is that like all of this is or is, you know, if you think about the mindset of greed or grabbing or grasping, it there's a it it requires us to have like a zero sum mindset. As in like there's a fixed amount and I've gotta get my share. And ⁓ once I've got it, I gotta hang on to it. And it's sort of like it impl there's like a binary paradigm of like yours, mine. Zero sum, like win lose. And one of the other places where that manifests is something we've talked about is in the Kleshas. So the second chapter of the Yoga Sutra is about practice, the sadhana pada. And it begins with this prescription for the practice of action, kriya yoga, which are tapasvadhyaya and ishvara pranidhana, which are the last three niyamas. Which we're gonna get to in, I don't know, like three, four weeks. and tapas means austerity or heat or like burning desire, as in like burning desire for spiritual ⁓ practice. Lovingly burning desire. Svadhyaya is the study of self. Ishvara Pranidanha is like giving it up to God, literally. And then, but then the third verse, Master Patanjali says, like, like in the second verse, he's like, Yeah, but then stuff gets hard. And then in the third verse, 2.3, I'm paraphrasing that one. But then he lists the five primary obstacles to yoga, the Kleshas, which are Avidya, Asmita, Raga, Dvesha, and Apina Vesha. So vidya, let me get actually I'm gonna I'm gonna just double back in my book and get ⁓ because we've we've we've talked about it, but like ⁓ Master Patanjali speaks to it. Excuse me, Master Jagannath Karrera speaks to it really beautifully. So the those three, their purpose, this is this is the second verse. Let me just give it to say it correctly. They're ⁓ if you're looking at Imtai Patanjali's words 133, Master Jagannath Karrera's translation of y of Sutra two point two, after that prescription for the Yoga of Action Kriya Yoga is given, their root, their purpose is to cultivate samadhi. Which is the transcendent bliss, the end result of yoga, full absorption, ⁓ and to weaken and diminish the root causes of suffering, the klishha. And then he gives this context for what are those Kleshas. Avidya, asmita, raga tvesha, abhina vesha, klesha is 2.3. And so avidya is often translated as ignorance, but again, it's the ⁓ not, and then vid. To know, feel, experience. Like it's like a, it's like you could say like wisdom or knowing, or like right in the Buddhist framing, right knowing, you could say. Again, it's ignorance or not knowing, and it's the root. And it's also like it's again in Buddhist practice, it said like it's the root of all suffering, is our fundamental misunderstanding. Asmita is sometimes translated as egoism or I amness. So it's this like fascinating journey that like from the fundamental misknowing, what arises is a sense of our separateness. That I have an I that is not a you, as opposed to like the truth, which is that it's a we. It's a you in me and it's ⁓ it's all of us, right? It's the sort of the bigger connected self. And but this is the then the next two are the ones that connect most deeply to a ⁓ a parigraha, raga and dvesha. Raga. Is like sometimes translated as attachment. Or it sometimes it means like pleasure. And then dvesha is aversion or dislike, hatred, repulsion. So like the what we like and what we don't like. And the reason that it's connected to a parigraha is that we have a tendency to like push away what we don't like and grab for what we don't. do like. Or what we think we like. Or what we're entrained to like. Bingo. And what we're entrained not to like. I mean, one later definition of avidya, by the way, is the misknowing of pleasure and pain. the self and the not-self and vice and virtue. So All of those dualities show up then in this way of thinking about like what does it mean to not be covetous, to not be greedy or gredful, or to not reach for what is beyond our grasp. And by the way, that reach is like to grab at or to push away. Either one, it's the same energy. So it means that like part of what's underneath the surface here. Is that a parigraha means that we've got to let go of mine and yours. Of winning and losing, of pleasure, pain, like as in our aversion to pain and our attraction to pleasure. Because either because we're gonna keep reaching for it, and too much is never enough. And we're gonna keep pushing away what's unpleasant to a point of total bypass and like shutdown and an unwillingness to be with the world as it is, and it's in its joyous and in its traumatic. And I think for so many of us too, like, and I'll fully admit, like we come to most of us in the West discovered yoga as as an asana practice. And you come to it because like the you see something that you want. Maybe it was a sense of peaceful ease in someone's way of being. Maybe you just thought handstand looks really cool, or you saw yogis and it just looked beautiful to you, or you saw their bodies and you had an attraction to like the yoga body, or maybe it felt good in your body and you didn't even know on a conscious level like why, but you just kept doing it. So like it starts there. And it's like, And it's, you know, one of my favorite yoga teacher cliches is like what happens when you can do a handstand? Nothing. Nothing. Like nothing. It means you can stand on your hands, which is totally cool. And like muzzle tough. Right. Right. Mazletov. And it is not samadhi. It is not bliss, enlightenment, or perfection of yoga by any means. It just means you can stand on your hands. It's useful, but again, it's a tool. You have to Understand its usefulness. And in this case, if all you do is go to class for the handstand and you do the handstand, the whole thing will just be hollow. It just won't mean anything. And you'll never taste the real nectar of this wisdom. Can I share a real quick translation that fits exactly, I think, with what you're saying? So it's from Unravel the Tr ⁓ Thread by Ruben Vosquez. And it says the person anchored in freedom from cravings and appreciation of abundance recognizes impermanence, clarifies life's purpose, and gains insight into past and future. But the commentary I wrote down was this sutra invites you to reflect on the ro role of material possessions in your life. But furthermore, Do not discount that there may be other forms of craving, like craving for acceptance or recognition. And to me, that's the handstand or the all the cravings of all of it. All of it. I I I'm kind of interested in actually I went to ⁓ Sachidananda, which I really love. And he says when non-greed is confirmed, and it kind of links to Ayingar. When non-greeding is confirmed, a thorough illumination of the how and why of one's birth comes. I've never considered, actually, that if we are free from cravings, if we are free from ⁓ greed, grasping, attachment, whatever, that then we can see the real purpose of our lives. Why is it that we are here? And I love that. And that's exactly what ⁓ Master Iangar said. What am I meant for? Why am I here? And we can't see it if we're attached to all the things. And I also want to bring in, and I don't know why I've just gotten so very, very attached to like bypassing, you know, like the word bypassing. I I think that sometimes I'll hear people go, well, I'm just not attached to that. And it feels almost like asmita, egoism. No, I'm better because I'm not attached to that. There there I don't know, there's something there that kind of And I feel like going, of course you're attached to it. Of course you are. You know, but well, let's no, let's let's speak about like but Sarah Page, like what like talk about what you're attached to. Well, what I'm attached to is like the first thing I don't know. I mean in that statement, like I really get I get I feel like there's so much work in this work that it's really easy to just kind of go, ugh. I don't have any I'm not attached to that. And yet you know, you see, you observe, you feel the energy of, mm, is that true or is that just bypass? Is are you just doing it because that's an easy thing to say? I have found I've done a lot of work in the past three years. I went through a very traumatic breakup and ⁓ I'm not attached to that anymore until oops, ⁓ yeah, I am. There it is again. You know, and then And attached to a story of ourselves. Yeah. And so what I have learned to do is sort of go, Mm, that's still there. That's still a little bit raw. I'm still a little attached to it. And then you gotta sit down I do. I have to sit down, put my feet on the ground, you know, floor tables, chairs, what is real, what isn't real, and kind of release a little bit more. And I think that that's the thing too, now that I'm riffing a little bit, I think that it's we expect to do it all at like immediately. ⁓ I'm not it's not, it's not. It's not let go. Okay. Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ just let go. Just let go and let God. Look, some people do, right? Some people do. There are people who choose a monastic experience and like that's part of like monasticism in almost any faith lineage. It it it is a practice, a deep, deep, deep practice of apargraha. Right. There's like there's a reason that like, you know, priests take a vow of poverty. Sannyasins, like or like are or even real, like, you know, people who have people take like, you know, monks again in but in Buddhist practice, like live very, very, very spartan, sparse lives. And part of it is like an intentional renunciation of celibacy is very common in in ⁓ many monastic practices across faith traditions. And and again, it's the sense that like for some it requires that like really extreme letting go, especially of the sense cravings of the material world, so that you can start to perceive the spiritual. But it's it's ⁓ And again, like easy to say because the craving is like there's like the literal like like I know one thing that like happens when I'm going through a hard time is like I all I want is like fried salty carbs. And like I like I'm reaching for it. As if somehow that's gonna comfort me. You know, Jagger Korea calls it he gives a definition of craving. It's one of those things we think we know is those words. I'm such a word nerd, which is why I love his book, you know, inside Petanjali's words. But ⁓ craving, a state of deep longing to sta satisfy the changing, and here's a good word, the changing whims of the senses. It obscures the gifts, dimensions, timelessness, and meaning of life that is found in the present moment. And then we go back to that. It obscures, but the whims, you know. I've always been pretty clear that I'm in recovery, always have been in recovery. And when I find myself, you know, I say that the hardest boyfriend I ever broke up with was Jack Daniels. And I think that it's like I have to stop myself short when I have that craving, the whims. I'm a much better person sober. Much better person sober. So why would I want to go into what's going on? I feel like you can't bypass like looking into the craving. So what was it about Jack Daniels that was so meaningful in your life? Like what situation did Jack Daniels, we'll just talk about your old boyfriend, create? You know what I mean? Because I feel like that's the thing what I've learned from myself from bypassing. I can't muscle through a craving or a trigger. I gotta sit and think. What do I believe that this is gonna bring me that I don't already have? And can I share one more because I also I wanna pause at that actually. You just said something really, really powerful, Sally. Can you just say that last thing again? I wanna really like give it a little space and like let's let's just give it a moment to let that land. I think the power is in not bypassing and the power is in a non punitive kind questioning. What do I think the craving is gonna bring me? That either I think I need or I think I do not have right now. You know, what is this thing outside of me? And it's usually attached to some past experience. So that's why I'm finding the bypass is like not the easy road. It's but some it takes a lot of courage to sit. And be vulnerable. I mean, I think vulnerability is like a out-of-style ⁓ I think it's a superpower, right? I think it's a superpower. And I do think it's a superpower. That's what I'm saying is like if we can just take that moment of vulnerability, we may free up years of craving. Can I speak to something you just said? I'm gonna talk about my fell felonious past. When I was 12, I got ⁓ got enough money to go to the Montgomery Wards and get a new notebook for sixth grade, whatever it was. And it was a big deal. And I went with my best friend. We go to the Montgomery Wards. I see the notebook of my dreams and it's more than what I have. So I can't get the notebook of my dreams. And I look down with my best friend Janet Sims and I, and let me tell you something. We were in church every time the doors were open. We were good little Baptists. And I look down and I see a price tag on the floor. And she goes, let's just switch price tags. I didn't know honestly that that was a crime, but we did. And we probably did it so obviously. So we switch the price tag pri price tags, walk out, immediately get nabbed by the store security. Immediately. And my father was and my grandfather and great grandfather were all very well known judges and attorneys in Tallahassee, Florida. So we get hauled off into the back room. I have absolutely no saliva in my mouth. I am terrified. My father picks me up and I'm just like waiting for him to like yell at me. He didn't do that. He said to me, What is it that you had to have so badly that I could not get it for you? It it makes me still have such shame to a point. But he didn't yell. And it makes me think I love what you said. Why did I have to have what was it that triggered me to, you know, switch price tags? Why did I have to have that notebook? Why couldn't I have been okay with it? Now listen, I know I'm twelve, whatever. But I'll never forget it. I remember exactly where I was. I remember being in the car and my father saying, What did you have to have so badly that I could not get it for you? I also had my rights read to me ⁓ at a juvenile court. Of like helping us understand and understand the way that text frames what arises. So I wanna slow down for a second here. Cause I think Sally, you said this really beautifully that like There's this moment in the noticing of like the craving, the reaching, the grasping. What do I want that I don't already have? Because the verse teaches that what arises when we are established in the not reaching for, in the not grasping, in the non-greed, in a parigraha. The the verse, the teaching is that. The meaning of life. And then that last word Sam Bodha. Has this like bud as as as Master Carrera translates it is like the root is to awaken. Can you awaken to your own perceived lack or absence or scarcity? That sambodha is like that you become aware of. Like you you you really like got right at it in that statement that that there's this there's the the again in the cliches of like what are you pushing away and what are you reaching for? Because like there's a in that in that craving, it implies that there's something we feel we lack. And I think it's especially difficult for us, you know, like in the same way that the last of the Kleshas, Abhina Vesha, is clinging to life. And again, it's said to be the subtlest of the Kleshas, because it's present in even the most like simple organisms, like a slug. Will slug slowly, but it will slug away from fire because it knows like it is it has a self-preservation instinct at some level. And so clinging to life is like the most self preservationist instinct. And like the transcendence of that allows us to like to to truly be fully present in our in our life. As opposed to like, you know, again, like there's this huge trend around like clinging to life and like life extension and ⁓ you know, all this sort of new science of longevity and health span and lifespan and maybe I've just like I'm too nerdy, but we were talking about this earlier. But that that like that that when we let go of that grasping. Like when we when we unclench the fist. That like this the Janma Kathamta, that we can ask that big question, like what do I want that I haven't got? It's a really great and why though? It always goes back to the why. I think that it's like why, and you s you hit on it too. It's also a scarcity mindset, right? We don't have enough. At least in this country in the West, that's the way I th I just see it so often, so very often. And I think that that's what's so interesting about. Renunciance, you know, being able to totally renounce and let go. Think about when you hold your breath for too long, how scary that is. But then when you finally retain it turns toxic exhale. It does. It turns toxic. And then when you finally exhale, how good does that feel? Well, like if you know, I like coffee a lot. But if I drink just coffee all day, I'll just Be like it's like too much. It's you know, sugar in a modest amount is delicious and like caloric, as in like you need energy, you need calories to like operate the physical form of the machine of your body. You can't like like the the muscles don't fire without it. But too much is so bad for us. So there's this like, and yet like it's also like tremendously compulsive and addictive. Like the just sugar on its own. So, so like we have this sense of like, ooh, yummy, want more. And then more and we and and I think what's especially difficult for us is like, let's get again, I'm not gonna talk about politics, but I'm gonna talk about culture for a second. In the in the United States especially, portion sizes are huge. Like if you ever traveled to Europe and you go to eat at a restaurant and like like the the food fe like it's a little easier in New York, but like I've traveled to in Europe with people who live in other parts of the United States where like, you know, getting these huge heaping mounds of food is very common at restaurants like ⁓ like the Cheesecake Factory, where they're famous for those like huge, like bucket size salads. That like is way more food than one person needs to eat at a sitting. Like there's no way that's good for you. There's no way you need that much. And and so like when you have what you need, like and you're served enough, for we have a cultural entrainment that it's like not enough. Like too much is enough. Like too much is never enough. And like in and especially like in the moment of culture that we're in in the United States is very ⁓ s driven by a lot of s a perception of scarcity, mine, yours. More me, like winning, losing, and that clouds our perception of like what we're really here for. It like gets in the way of our ability to see a sense of deeper meaning and purpose. Because you know, it's like there's there's an analogy in some Buddhist lineages. Like if you were to if you were to hold out your hand and like just to like let it just like flop, like and you were to pour some water, it just would like fall out of your hand. Right. If and you can't hold on to it. Or sand. Like if you were to try to pick up some sand. If you just like don't activate the muscles in your hand, the sand just like course through. If you are trying to pick up sand but with a clenched fist or like hold water, there's no room, there's no space for to hold anything. So it requires a sort of like middle path where you have to just cup your shape the hand just enough, but it can only hold just enough. And that's all you need. And yet like we are constantly pushing away what we don't like, reaching for what we do like. More, me, mine. And we do it in other ways. Like I think about this all the time when I like, you know, ⁓ I've I've had a really I don't I mean I guess I've had an interesting life in the sense that like I've worked in technology and now I like I I I live in like a bunch of different worlds. Like I have a I've I've had a cr a very like Capitalist minded career. I we we pursue this study, you know, really as a as a save ⁓ we hope. Like we're not monetizing this podcast. We're not doing it for money. We pay, we pay the production costs and the equipment out of our own pocket. You know, it's like not we're like maybe we'll monetize this one day somehow. We're we gotta, you know, we're figuring it out. Maybe. I don't know. But like, ⁓ And even that when I tell friends, they're like, Well, how do you make money? Like one friend asked me, like, how well do you like aren't like how do you how are you guys making money on the podcast or what's your monetization strategy? And I was We don't have one. I was like, we're really just trying to hopefully like contribute some sattvic energy to the world and like hopefully some goodness and some goodness will come of it. But like, I don't know. And which sometimes, especially in a city like New York, people are like, What like what? Like, why why would you do that? Right. Yeah, why would you do that? Why would you just give it away? And part of the answer actually is really like this verse. The answer is because I know, and we haven't talked about this, but I do think it's connected to this idea of Dharma. It's connected to this idea of of Dharma and how there's ⁓ Dharma is a word that's used in a lot of contexts in spiritual tr Eastern lineages. Dharma means like path or purpose. Dharma means like ⁓ like like That is both individual, like each of us has a sense of like our own dharma, and that there's like this like big eternal forever dharma. Like, like Hinduism, by the way, is like a is a made up Western word. Like it its practices are referred to as Sanatan Dharma, which is like the eternal dharma. Like, which is this huge, big body of practice and study. Like, you know, I think it's hard for people for us in the West who have a cultural entrainment around like very kind of rigid Abrahamic faith traditions. Like if you grow up in a Jewish home and you're entrained into that mindset, it's about one God, the only God, a jealous God. You know, and if it's and in most Christian lineages, keep me on a Sarah Page, but like it's it's that like Jesus Christ died for your sins. And there's a sense of accepting him as your savior. And yet this this this is like sort of something different. And like Only when we're when we when we sort of like let go of the reaching for can we start to see what it is. Well and that's what that's what Setchatananda and Ayingar were saying. And that's what made me think of Dharma as well, you know, because the way I see it is like purpose, what is it we're made put here to do. Right. And then when non greed or apartigraha is confirmed, a thorough illumination of why you're here comes. And I love what like I said, you know, Ayngar. What am I meant for? That's Dharma. What are you meant for? What is your path? You can't do it if you're holding on. No. You can't do it. Can't do it. Doesn't work. And in the Buddhist tradition, it's like, you know, it's the it's the one of the jewels, right? Buddha Dharma Sangha. Buddha that there was a that there was a an a a person, an actual person who who transcended all of this. And by the way, Siddhartha Gautama, the man who became the Buddha, like was I'm sure instructed in variations on all this philosophy. He was an Indian prince. Like it was how they were how they were taught. Like there's a dharma that he taught that was taught for us to then receive and that the dharma is for everyone. And Sangha, the community in which we in which we we practice it. Well and can I share one more translation that is wrapping all this together? I love how this conversation, 'cause it's It's from the Secret Power of Yoga by Nikhila Joidevi, and it says, Acknowledging abundance, we recognize the blessings in everything and gain insights into the purpose of our worldly existence. And in her commentary, she says, A pahi graha gives the secret to earthly life. Just take a moment to feel gratitude for the great blessings that surround you, the place you call home, the service you do in the world. The availability of quality food, the riches also include your friends, your health, and the opportunity to dedicate time to know your own heart. Spiritual wealth is the only wealth that sustains us, and when we venture deeply within, we are all millionaires. Life's ebbs ebb and flow brings ⁓ things into our lives and then out again. Our belief system has the ability to hinder or expand this flow of abundance. And I feel like it's just wrapping up everything you two were just talking about. I think this is a that's a perfect place to like start to start to wrap this up. We suggest, you know, we offer an inquiry for these, ⁓ for these teachings just as a way to hopefully inspire you to stay in your own inquiry. ⁓ and you can journal on it, you can just think about it, you can use it however you like. ⁓ Sally, why since you just shared such a beautiful like point of inquiry, what did that inspire for you to offer to our dearest listeners? Well, it's funny because I am going to Ruben Vasquez in this sutra has so many great questions. So I'm actually just going to use his and I'm going to give him full credit. So this is from Unravel the Thread. Do you measure your life and yourself in terms of what you have acquired? How much energy do you spend acquiring? Acquiring material things and or protecting what you have? Do you live in abundance, scarcity, or craving? Yeah, that's good. That's that's it. Do you live in abundance, scarcity, or craving? Yeah. So good. Sarah Paige, what's an inquiry that this is inspires for you? What does it cost you? What is it costing you to hold on? What is and get really be kind to yourself, do not judge, do not shame, do not blame. None of that. It's not about that. It's a it's just about not bypassing and not and being afraid of looking at it really thoroughly and having that moment of truth with yourself. What is it costing you? ⁓ when I was drinking, it was costing me everything. It was costing me peace, prosperity, but mostly it was costing me my peace. So what is it costing you? That grasping. I'll give a little different flavor, which is like Think about how you would tell the story of your life to someone. What what are you holding on to there? I'm reading Sadviji's book. From Hollywood to the Himalayas. ⁓ and Sadhviji is a ⁓ I guess you call her she would call herself a nun, I guess. Yeah. yeah, she's never nununciate. She's a she at a at an ashram in Rishikesh India, she said ⁓ part of her awakening was when Pujaswamiji, the spiritual leader of the ashram, after she started telling him about herself, he said, Are you gonna be that for your whole life? And she like apparently was stopped in her tracks. I'm paraphrasing a bit, you know, but like and and ⁓ and he said, you know, you could let that go right now. And she was like, ⁓ well, no, no, no, no. And he like, No, no, you could walk you could give all of that to Ganga. You could give all of that to the river. She will take it. It inspired a trem massive, a massive ⁓ point of transformation. But again, it required her to cultivate the sense of apartigraha to not be to n like to not like grab on or be greedy for that story of victimhood or of been wronged by or my own s stuff. Right? This is like the danger in diagnosis a little bit, you could say. Like you know, because we then we get we hook into a story. A divorcee. I'm an ex-Google employee. I'm ⁓ the like I'm a yogi. I'm a spiritual teacher. I'm a dog owner. I'm right. I'm like all these things. If I hold on to those so tight, though, like I never can, like you can't zoom out to see the bigger picture. you can't really see the bigger sense of purpose. And so, you know, I think again, like with a lot of complaints. Passion and love and curiosity and gentleness. asking yourself, like, who do you think you are? ⁓ so humble. And and no, right, right, and notice like where you feel yourself like grasping at Sally, what is a teaching tip you would offer this week? So I'm gonna ask people to like kind of have an experience of the difference between enjoyment and attachment through pressing the four corners of your feet down different than gripping. I think I use this on occasion, but really establishing a firm foundation where you can really appreciate yourself as you are right now. How about you, Sarah Page? Ask your students what they're holding on to. Why do they feel like they should have to suppose to, you know, are they giving themselves sort of a grade? Because that's attachment. You know, once they get into say, you know, I don't know, once we go into say Shavasan, are they actually releasing and letting go or are they giving themselves a grade? Well, I give myself like a D plus. Whatever. I should have done this. I couldn't have done that. That's all attachment. So ask your students what are they attached to in? in their asana practice and then also, where are you attached? Are you giving yourself a grade? Are you saying I should have done this, I must have done that, I oughta have done that, or even, boy, that was great. Mm, there's some attachment in Asmita there as well. Just be a vessel. ⁓ yeah, I'll offer to ⁓ As an instructor, what are you attached to? Like what are the sequences you repeat frequently? And maybe just give yourself the challenge to and and like ⁓ and maybe depending on your lineage of practice, like i maybe it's the way you cue them. Like, could you cue Surya Namaskar A and Surya Namaskar B with all different words than the ones you default into? Most of us, right? Have us have like a Greatest hits of like of alignment cues or of just like ways in which you cue those very foundational sequences, because we teach them in every class. And so it's easy to drop into an autopilot of them. Lately, one I've been using for like halfway lift, Arda Utanasana, is like lengthen the tailbone to the back of the room and the crown of your head to the front of the room. It's a nice cue, I'd like to think. But like it's not a but like now I've got to interrupt myself and not say that next week. So like give yourself the challenge of like not using your default cues. And like notice what you're holding on to there. You've got a story about them, why, what, et cetera. And the other is I would, I, I would, I, I, I, I'll, I'll sort of double tap on Sally's that like give students even and maybe even like workshop it for a moment, the real activation of your feet and generating, creating, and pressing into the four corners without the white knuckle in your toes. Or in your hands, like the difference between like really activating your hands and like gripping at the f like you need to grip at the floor in ⁓ some inversion practice. But even there, like is that like is that because you're pressing and using those little subtle muscles in your hands to like you know, in the in the dynamic balance of crow, ⁓ bhakasana or another arm balance, or like. In the Warriors, you see this all the time. People really grab at the floor with their feet. Or in triangle, that's another one. Trikonasa and I see a lot of grabby toes. So ⁓ think about a way to encourage people to like really spread and press without grabbing. I mean, this is such a rich again, like there's so much we could we could keep going at this. ⁓ but may may we all find a way to sort of ⁓ cultivate a little more contentment, which we'll also talk about. I didn't go into like how this is very deeply cultivated, like Apari Garaha is very deeply connected to the Niyama of Santosha. ⁓ so we'll just put a pin in that as a rem as an upc a preview of coming attractions in two weeks. ⁓ because next week we're gonna get into the niyamas, and the first is a different principle. ⁓ but but in the meantime, thank you, Sarah Page. Thank you, Seth. Thank you, Sally. Thank you. Thank you both. And thank all of you for listening. And we will be with you again very soon. If you've found any ⁓ value or benefit from these words and from your time that we've spent together, please consider rating the episode, subscribing to us on whatever platform you're listening. And maybe even the highest honor would be to share it with a friend ⁓ as something that they might find useful. And with that, we will say have a blessed day. And we will be with you again very soon. Bye-bye for now.