Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Good mentorship is how you make someone feel – Danielle Arnold

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Good mentorship is how you make someone feel – Danielle Arnold · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest on the Financial Planner Life podcast is Danielle Arnold.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Danielle is the head of power planning for Bespoke Wealth Limited.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: And today she shares very deeply around her career journey to becoming a head of power planning, all the different roles that she did along the way, and what she learnt within the position of power planning.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: She throws away this concept, this idea that power planners are introverts.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: It gets banded around a lot, a job perfect for introverts.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: She most certainly is not an introvert.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, before she started her career in financial planning, she was training to be a helicopter pilot.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's not very introverted, is it?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Now, it's a fantastic conversation.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: She really shares deeply about her own personal experience.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about things like why it's important for a power planner to work alongside a really decent financial advisor who invests in their training and development and brings them into client meetings to expose them to really what the client is all about.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we talk about the importance of power planning, why that power planner really is the eyes and ears of the financial advisor, and ultimately delivering the client the best experience they possibly can get.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: A great podcast for anybody looking to become a power planner or power planner careerists.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Danielle, thank you so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Good, thank you.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good, thank you.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me on.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's all right, no problem at all.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's my my pleasure, you know.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: I've seen you on LinkedIn, you're very active.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I try to be.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I've been told that's the key.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if I'm doing too well, but I'm giving it a go, temper effort.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you what, you know, it it definitely gets you noticed if you can use LinkedIn the right way, and you don't have to be on it every single second of the day because it's a bit of a time stealer, it's a bit like Facebook.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: You can go on and just endlessly scroll.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, and um at times we've sort of banned it in the office because as a recruitment company, LinkedIn can be an absolute time zapper.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And also I'm learning that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and sometimes a bit of a kind of fool's gold in the sense that you think, oh, I've got to be on LinkedIn to be making money because everybody's on there looking for jobs.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: When in reality, you know, it's a part of the process.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: As long as you're out there posting a bit here and there, yeah, you get seen.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, well, that's me.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: Having a dabble.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Having a dabble dabble, exactly.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, Danielle, you are um head of power planning for Bespoke Wealth Limited.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, thank you for joining me today.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're going to sort of talk about your career journey.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, your journey through financial planning, how you ended up becoming the head of power planning, which is quite a new type role.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's not something that's always been out there in the 13, 14 years that I've been recruiting in.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, as the power planning role has evolved, we're now starting to see these heads of these manager positions.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And what's really interesting is a lot of these positions are they're becoming very, very integral in large firms, you know.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's very, yeah, power planning as a whole, like you say, has changed over the years.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's now it's a very attractive career choice.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's it's definitely seen as essential by the best firms.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's it's funny, it's quite sought-after-roll now, and it it didn't used to have that attached to it.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we're talking a little bit about that and the culture of administration power planning and how it fits within the financial planning profession, and how sometimes perhaps it's looked as being a bit of a second fiddle to the glitz and the glamour of being a financial advisor.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And as you rightfully said, it's very much a career choice where people are happy to be in there and progress within there, or use it as a stepping stone into financial advice.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think your journey where you've gone down the uh you know, the admin to PowerPlanner to management within PowerPlanner shows that there is a career, you know, career path for the if you want to do it.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: All right, fabulous.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, Danielle, I always like to kick things off with just sort of finding out a little bit about how you actually got into the profession.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, could you sort of just give us an overview of how you ended up working within the financial planning profession?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, like most people, um I fell into it.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think uh, you know, at school I didn't know it was a job, didn't really know about financial services industry, um, and everyone I met along the way is pretty much the same.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a career that you fall into.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was actually training as a helicopter pilot um before, yeah, before before getting into um getting into financial services, and I um I had a scholarship to the Air Force, I'd worked for that through school, uh they sponsored me through college.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um unfortunately at the point of me going in to start officer training and I'd you know completed all my attitude tests and that sort of thing, but at the point of going uh to sign up essentially um was when the the big recession hit.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um I was told, oh, we won't be able to, we you know, we're not we're not gonna be able to recruit for good five years.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, I'm very impatient, I think, as a person.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, oh, I'll do this privately, I can do it on my own.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um turns out I was wrong, but I gave it gave me a good shot doing it privately.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, oh, I'll get a job after I was, I was, I was 18, I was in college, so I thought I'll I'll get a good job um full time after college to try and fund that that passion, basically.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'd always been good at maths.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think I spoke with like you know, I'd even down the job centre or a or a recruiter at some point, and someone was like, oh, you're good at maths, maybe go into financial services.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's sort of how it how it came about.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: I I yeah, just started in like an admin client servicing role, um, yeah, with the intention of continuing um my private helicopter training, but it it just didn't come to fruition.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I've made that into my career now.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: All right, cool.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so when you started off then in that administration type position, obviously you were doing that to sort of fund your passion and your interest in becoming a pilot, a helicopter pilot.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Is that called a pilot as well?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't it?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Pilot helicopter pilot.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I think yeah, the exam boards will differentiate between fixed wing and and rotary, but yeah, pilot, pilot will stay, they fly stuff in the air, don't they?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: So do you fly helicopters now then?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, not anymore.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I I could on like a hobby basis.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you've you've got to keep up your hours and your exams, etc.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: have got to be in date.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: But um, so yeah, no, not not anymore, sadly.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Had to had to leave it behind, yeah, predominantly, predominantly for medical reasons.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, yeah, unfortunately, it took me a while.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Tough tough pill to swallow, leaving that behind.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'd worked for it through school and and college and everything, but life life doesn't pan out the way you always want it to, does it?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's just one of those things.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Was it a medical condition or something like that where you couldn't?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, so I trained privately, past all my medical and stuff, like a flu flew solo.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was, you know, I was I was I was bang on track basically.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um but so that that was privately.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was going for a scholarship and I missed the scholarship deadline because I ran out of money basically.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I thought by by the time I'd done that, um the military reopened their recruitment stream.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and at the point I was going back in, which I thought would be seamless because I'd had the previous sponsorship and you know I'd flown, I was already like ahead of most other applicants going in because I'd I'd flown, I had the aptitude.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, unfortunately, I've got asthma.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they wouldn't let me in.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, they wouldn't let me in because I had I developed asthma at that point, which was just devastating.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of those things.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can look back on it now fondly.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's life just life's got a different plan for you sometimes, doesn't it?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I I genuinely do love financial services.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really passionate about it now.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's it's all happened how it was meant to.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Very handy, exactly.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: The universe works in mysterious ways.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps it was protecting you for some reason.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, yeah, exactly.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: My mum and dad say that very relieved.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Very relieved I no longer fly.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true, actually.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool, great.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, it's got the Financial Plan of Life podcast, not the helicopter podcast, is it?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, move away.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Moving on from that.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, yeah, okay, so you went into an administrative position then.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you're doing that for some time.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So just tell us a little bit about that early entry then into financial planning.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So you started out in an admin.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's usually the traditional route where someone would get in without any experience, and and and perhaps you know, somebody who's a bit unsure about really what the profession is and where the profession profession can take them.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you went in as an administrator and when you know, tell us a little bit about that early, that early point into becoming an admin and how you sort of progressed then into more of a power planning role.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I'd I'd had a, I suppose the the key difference there is like my little my little part-time, you know, my weekend job during college, I worked in a call centre.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and part of the the role that I went for, the director was looking for someone who was really confident on the phone and wanted um to help with appointment booking.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it was it was an admin position, but help with uh you know, booking annual reviews, retaining existing business from acquisitions and mergers, um, getting them in front of a new financial advisor, welcoming them to the company and that sort of thing.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that was that was the catch-in, I suppose.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, in terms of in yeah, you know, had no experience.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And although, like I mentioned, you know, I was quite good at maths, I'd done maths at school, GCSE, and and I'd done maths A level for my flying, um, it was not a prerequisite at all.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know why the recruiter actually said that to me.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe just coming up with ideas, but yeah, it wasn't a requirement at all, had no experience.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: I've never even heard of financial services.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know that pensions and investments and stock market and all that sort of thing was was even a thing.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't been exposed to that through family, and it's not something you're taught at school either.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So didn't know anything about it really.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it's just a very um, yeah, you know, a basic role as as as some admin positions um can be, you know, post filing, scanning.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I say, I was on the phone a lot in terms of business development with acquisitions and mergers and booking appointments.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then the role itself gradually developed to what I think is more of an admin role now, um, in terms of slightly more technical, so taining valuations, um, dealing with maturities and renewals, getting policy information for the power planning teams and the advisors, um, yeah, like traditional financial services admin.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: So back then, were you sort of reporting into power planning, or were you like reporting in directly to like a financial advisor or the business owner?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: How did it work then?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it was still the company I worked for at the time was still quite small at that time.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I just reported straight to um, we had like an operations manager, um, so that was like my first line, but on the whole, really just reported straight into to one of the directors, and then I I look I've got the promotion to client services manager where that that that role expanded and I grew my own team.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, so just reported straight into straight into the director at that point.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think then, sort of going into the profession without any experience, did you think that um, you know, if you were to turn around to somebody now who's thinking about becoming, I don't know, a financial advisor or thinking about working in the financial planning profession, um, you you know, you admitted you didn't know much about it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, do you think, you know, it's a lot a lot of companies think you should have qualifications before you get into the profession?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what's your take on that?
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think, you know, you don't?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to have a certain type of personality or a certain level of interest.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: What is that level of interest?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you hire people, you interview people.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: If someone was to sit in front of you and it was an administration role, what would you expect from them?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's difficult, isn't it?
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think everyone's got their own their own path.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the path is they don't know where they want to go, and that's also okay.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think you can discriminate someone based on I don't know where I want to go, I'll just do admin for a bit and see how I get on.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's all right as well.
• 12:44
  unknown: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, no, I definitely don't think you you have to have qualifications.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely don't think you there's lots of lots of financial advice firms that that offer grad schemes and they're brilliant.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I don't think having a degree is is a prerequisite in any way, shape, or form.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not me dumbing down, you know, or belittling the hard work that graduates have gone into to achieve their degree or the value that it can add to a business.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think it's important to consider candidates that don't have that as well, because you know, the the qualifications within financial services are degree-level qualifications, they're hard work and you can be just as successful in the industry without having external qualifications, if that makes sense.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I think you can absolutely come in with nothing and and and and and work your way up, even if you just want to sit some, doesn't it?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: You don't even have to sit the full advice qualifications, you can sit some like regulation and ethics, yeah.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's administration qualifications, there's power planning qualifications.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to, the the the only qualification is not the full advice and and retail investment advice exams.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's way more to it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so having no, you know, absolutely, you know, you don't you don't need to have a degree to do to move into financial planning.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, financial planning is one of those professions.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: You could you could earn£100,000 a year as a financial planner and not hold a degree.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a pre it's not a prerequisite.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: As you said, if you end up progressing to becoming a financial planner, then um you're doing pretty much degree level education anyway through the level four qualification.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um that comes.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly, as you as you go on higher and you go to charter and you do level six, you know, there's there's level seven.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's it's yeah, you it you you won't not be challenged, that's for sure.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there's plenty to do with that early.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's plenty to do, and there's there's it's a very important job administration within a financial planning firm.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: So there's plenty to get stuck into, regardless of age.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because you mature in the role anyway, because you take on gradual snippets of the work, don't you?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: You don't take off absolutely everything straight away.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So when you get those people where education's not for them, perhaps they're done with the schooling system, they're not too sure they want to go to university or um college or whatever it might well be.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, look to the financial planning profession, look to the financial services.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because I didn't have a degree and I worked in financial services for years.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's not a prerequisite, and there are um don't be put off um by thinking that you're only great if you've got a degree.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a huge, huge advocate for that.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because also, you know, degrees, degrees aren't for everyone.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think a reason I didn't go, I didn't go to university, obviously I was pursuing my passion like for flying, but also university, even when I was in school, it it didn't seem achievable for me.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I it wasn't affordable for me and my family.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's the you know, that's the other thing.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think people realise like uni's not just for everyone, just because not necessarily because they they don't need it, but they actually might not be able to afford it, it might not be an option for people.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because you do a little bit, you do a little bit of work, don't you, with the CII around financial education and going into schools and talking around the um around the curriculum around financial uh uh advice, I guess.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, tell us a little bit about that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: When you go in there, do they their ears prick up a little bit when they start to learn a little bit about you and what it is you do for a living?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do they get really interested in it?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, like when I when I go in and host the workshop, so first of all, what it what it is is I'm I'm a professional, I volunteer as a professional educator for um yeah, the CIIs, it's called My Personal Finance Skills.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's it's a program that they run um from key stage three to key stage five.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's age 13 to 18, somewhere there.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's it's providing them with vital personal finance skills like budgeting, you know, opening their first bank account, um, understanding interest, understanding their first payslip and what that means, national insurance contributions, pension contributions, staying safe from scams, um, understanding financial risks, and then you know, the older ones, so year year, year 11 and like 12 and 13, like loans, mortgages, you know, student loans is all big, big stuff that you know they don't get taught about at all.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so really, you know, hats off to the CII for doing that program.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, it's something I'm really passionate about.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think financial education should be mandatory on the curriculum, and it's it's just not, unfortunately.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: So until until it is, um, yeah, I I am more than happy to help provide those skills, um, really passionate about it.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, back to back to your point about you know hearing about it.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when I host the workshops, I I often describe my job to students and describe the industry and what we do as an industry and what we cover in the sector.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you know, like we said earlier, I explain that power planning in particular is now a really attractive career choice.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't just go straight in with, oh, it's the advisor.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I talk about an admin function and I talk about um, you know, I talk about power planning and that it's it's it's seen as these are essential roles now by the best firms, um, and that it challenges you, it provides you with great like personal and professional development.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I think sometimes, you know, when you're in school, people know what like an accountant is, they know what a lawyer is, they know what a doctor is, they know what a footballer is, and like potentially a rock star or a pop star, but there's very little they know about other, you know, other jobs.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't actually even think I knew about recruitment as an industry.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's always really rewarding to educate them not just on financial skills, but actually educate them on the sector and the industry as you know as a potential as a potential career choice.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I I do get really good feedback, particularly from from female students as well, um, saying that you know, they if if if they do know about the industry, they would have thought it was more of like a it's a man's job, is what I often hear.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, and it's just not.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it's nice to know that I'm on they might consider financial services as a as a career path because of my influence or positive representation, hopefully.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think so, absolutely.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you know, uh the the the profession's crying out obviously for more women, we know that.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um, one of the the best ways to get more young women, girls, women of all ages, really, it doesn't matter how how old you are, interested in the profession is for people within positions of um like directorship or leadership roles that are showing that they've progressed through the profession, which is predominantly male, yeah, and and made a career out of it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a very rewarding career for females and it suits women perfectly.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: So it's um women have a duty, I think, to step up and talk about the profession more, and that's one of the best ways to attract it.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: You could have a bit of men talking about it, but you know, women aren't gonna uh they're not gonna uh relate to a man talking about why they're women in the profession, isn't it?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's it, and that's I think one of the difficulties.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I I think you've had a couple of people on your podcast in the past who've spoken about the same thing, but like you know, the FCA carried out they've carried out a study.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think the first one was in 2018 or 2019, and they've done it every single year since.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the the most recent one I think was last week, and it showed that the average UK advisor is as a male over 50.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I've many a time in my career I've gone to a tech event or I've gone to a provider seminar and I've walked into a room and you know, I'm often one of only a handful of women, um, and I'm certainly usually the only one my age.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now that doesn't mean I'm I'm the only one in the industry, obviously my age.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's not, there's lots of like-minded women and women my age, which is great, all sort of like stick together.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there definitely needs to be, there definitely needs to be more representation and younger advisors, not just women, younger advisors in in general coming up through the ranks.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think it's really important that even if you're in just an admin role, um, you know, that they know that you you've got that option if you if you want to pursue it.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, 100%, because administration, as we said, you know, is an entry-level, it can be considered to be an entry-level position into financial planning.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And at that entry-level position where you don't have to have any experience, nothing like that, it's going to open you up to such an amazing career with lots of different uh avenues to go down.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you pursue administration to the point of senior administration to then becoming, say, an admin manager or an office manager, or perhaps more down the operations route.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Might then, or whilst you're on that journey, start to work alongside a power planner and think, well, I really love what the power planner is doing.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want to know more about that.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: So you start to go down the power planner route, and then eventually you might end up as a head of power planner that you have done as well.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I can only see that role expanding further past head of power planning as firms become bigger and bigger and bigger.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: And power planners will, you know, be an integral part of the startup of companies.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Don't mark my words, you're gonna have a lot of people knocking on your door over the next three to five years who are setting up firms and they want a power planner to be a director within that firm and a shareholder.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's an important person to have on that board.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: You've got the route going down to financial advice.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: You've got compliance.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And as the tech industry starts to open up and makes things more interesting in financial planning, there's a plenty of tech opportunities.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're seeing firms have more marketing roles now, you know, analyst positions as well as power planning.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: As whole, as a whole, you know, yeah, it's a whole avenue, isn't it?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that the core of power planning is um, yeah, you know, it's it's it's a very technical role.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly within businesses, it it's quite strategic.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of the roles that I've carried out, you know, have really focused around research, you know, product research, strategic alliances with external providers, um, you know, due diligence um from compliance and risk point of view for the business.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And those are massive strategic responsibilities within a business.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just, you know, oh, here I am writing a report.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much more to, you know, there's so much more to writing a suitability report with a power planner, and and it's it's it's tapping into that and making use of it.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do I do think a lot of power planners will expand and and go into these different roles, like you say.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you were in an administration position, you also moved then into a client service manager role where you were sort of managing you're managing the client services, but you did you did step into that, then you stepped across into away from management, then into power planning.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: The sometimes like the view of a power planner, right, is somebody that likes to sit at their sit at their desk, right, in a dark room.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know where it's just gonna be with a with a laptop, yeah, you know, nerding it up, analyzing data, you know, and they I don't know, tend to feel like they're not possibly quite an extrovert type person.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're somebody that you know likes to sit there with a spreadsheet and look at numbers.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from going from something where you're managing people, which is a completely different skill set, into moving into power planning.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: A, is what I said true in any, you know, is it actually true?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what people think and is that what's actually true about the job?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: But B, how did you adopt and how did you adapt to being a manager and then all of a sudden doing a brand new job like power planning, which was completely different?
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, okay, so first of all, yeah, I think that's that's it's fairly accurate.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: The power planners generally are quite power planners are generally quite introverting, like you say, like like crunching the numbers or like you know, like churning out the the technical suitability reports.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I've always um you know, on the whole stood out.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've never really fit that mould.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um in terms of going from management to to power planning, I I'd already sat some exams um uh in client services as a manager um because I felt my my boss was very encouraging and very supportive of that, you know, have a bit of a foundation if you're managing this team and you know, managing the risk from the team in terms of information that they're gathering for power planners and policy information and you know, working directly with clients, there needs to be a level you know of training and development essentially, and that starts with me as the manager.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it was once I'd done that, though, those exams, to me, it felt like a natural progression to move away from that.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm very much a people person, but you know, managing comes with its challenges.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, I just felt like for me, I'm very I'm very ambitious, so I knew like I could see that career path.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I could see that career path with within financial services, and I'd had been really fortunate that some of the advisors that worked in the business had spent time, you know, with me explaining certain things like around exams and and that sort of thing, and had basically said, you know, I think you'd be great like as an advisor.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was always like, Oh, I'm not ready for that yet, I don't think.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't feel like I knew enough or had been exposed to enough areas within the business to, you know, to fully appreciate what goes into giving clients advice and the liability that sits on your shoulders in doing so.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, that natural next step was was was power planning.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, and it was, you know, I worked worked in a big firm with lots and lots of advisors, and I was very lucky that almost immediately um I was asked to power plan one-on-one for a chartered advisor.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she was just, you know, she's probably the reason that I am where I am in my career.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: She was brilliant, spent so much time, um, you know, was so generous with her time and her knowledge and sharing that wisdom with me.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that tech, you know, on a technical level, I grew very, very quickly and just loved it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: I I saw firsthand the worries and the objectives of clients and what their priorities are at different life stages.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw how rewarding it is to positively influence that as an advisor with the decisions you're making or the advice that you're giving.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So very quickly, thought I love being a part of this, this is where I'll stay.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want to be in the front end, if you like, of giving that advice and make sure making sure it's right for each client.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So when you were in that paraplanner role supporting that chartered uh that chartered planner, Aishi gave you some fantastic mentorship by the sounds of it, which is can often be lacking within financial planners because financial planners can often be out there thinking it's the glitz and the glamour, they're doing the role of financial advice, bringing the clients in, and they're ones making all the money.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Pass a load of business over to administrators and power planners and say, get on with it, you know.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're that part, you're here to support me.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, one area there you spoke of, which we'll touch on in a bit about mentorship.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: And really, I'd like to understand a bit about why what did she do that was so great to inspire and mentor you and help you?
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one that's kind of one area there.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: But we're also going to look at things like the training and development that you received during during that period.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because you said that there's a few people in your ear saying you'd make a good advisor.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, your natural ambition inquisitiveness, I think, took you through the process of becoming who you are today.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a was there a pathway laid out for you?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a personal development plan?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're experiencing more and more and more financial planning firms losing their staff because there isn't a clear personal development plan when someone comes in an administrator that can take them all the way up to either being an advisor or a power planner, whatever route that they want to go down.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Did you just feel your way or did you follow a pathway?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a career framework for you?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I think there was in the sense of I was very much encouraged to go for my full level four.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, done level three, so naturally they were like, yeah, go for go for the full, go for the full level four.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I had that mapped out for me.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but thereafter, I sort of had to pursue that myself in terms of going chartered.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: That wasn't uh, you know, for example, you know, you you'll become head of power planning if you sit X, Y, or Z.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was never a conversation that's been had.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think it's it's it's crucial to have those little goals.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps, you know, incremented pay rise.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you pass these two exams, you could get this, or you know, you'll move into this area, or perhaps you could support this advisor because we feel like you'll have enough of a knowledge to do that.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I do think that's really important.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't necessarily set out for me, though, unfortunately, but it's not hindered me in any way because I've I've been where I've been in the industry and I've been around people, I've always had, you know, oh, you could do this, so then I've just gone off and done it myself, if that makes sense, as opposed to it being a set framework for me to achieve certain things.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you tend to do you feel that you, based on your personality, you are more extrovert than introvert, right?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: You're somebody that kind of is ambitious and hungry for a challenge and wants to progress forward.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think just having that type of personality within that role is so different from a lot of the people that are in um administrative and technical positions?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that has helped you.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: So having the confidence within that role to step up and kind of be a person, not be a personality, but make people aware that you are ambitious and keen has sort of sort of um I don't helped you progress.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think so.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and certainly I'm quite fortunate that a lot of the positions I've worked in, I've reported straight to directors and they've always been very encouraging.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very lucky on that front as well.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if I haven't necessarily, I mean, I'm quite fairly confident, like you say, fairly confident and ambitious person anyway.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if I haven't said, oh, I would like to do X, um, they've generally been the ones to suggest it, which has been nice.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always been, I've always been very eager to please and and step up if some if a job needs doing, I'm more than happy to help out and do it.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that was recognised in the roles that I've worked in of like, you know, how about you have a go at this?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then, well, okay, yeah, sure, I'll give it a go.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's expanded, it's expanded from there.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: What would you say to somebody then?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say, you know, there is a power planner listening here or an administrator, and they're kind of stuck in their role a bit.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're in a firm where there isn't a career development path.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no one's really talking to them about what they want to do or where they're going to go or anything.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: And they're kind of turning up to work, they're doing their job, um, and they kind of want to progress their career.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think they can do to get themselves ahead?
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: What you know, what would you do in a position like that to push yourself forward to actually start developing your career if someone around you or the business around you or the environment doesn't lend itself to that?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's um the it if you've not got the support within the business, that's really challenging.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because my first advice would be, you know, go to your line manager and say, look, I really do want to progress.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: What what what viable routes have I got to get there?
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Are there certain exams you would like me to take?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Are there certain events I could attend?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but if you don't, if you don't have that support within the business, that's very, very difficult.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you can of course self-study.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you could go and look, you know, as opposed to your employer sponsoring you, you could find out what exams you you think you would need.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Often, if you look on the websites for like CII, um, L IBF or the CISR, if you look on any of them, it will tell you by doing a certain qualification what like you can do.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: So by level four, you can give advice, that sort of thing.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: So you could do that in self-study, pay for it yourself.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, CPD is great, sitting in on tech events, sitting in on seminars.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, not necessarily something your worker sponsoring, you could do that in your personal time, but they're really good as well.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: You get lots of industry knowledge, proper giants in the industry giving you good, solid technical information.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: That would help someone progress as well.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I think um, yeah, I think ultimately a a business has to support you in some in some way or another.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think anyone who's who's been successful cannot say that they've done it alone.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's there's there's got to have been opportunities that have been given to you or people that have assisted you along the way.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know that's certainly the case for me.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've not got to where I am by myself.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: What about sort of networking with power planners within the profession that don't work with you?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Did you did you do much of that?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Did you go to many power planner clubs or powwows or I know Sean Davies Cole was on my podcast and she said power planner club?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a great place for other power planners to just ask the questions to other powers, power planners about culture, about values, about career opportunities.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: What have you heard?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: What's your salary?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are you what's your expectations of learning?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all the questions that perhaps sometimes, if you're sat there doing the job, you might not ask because everybody's too busy, you know?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um many of those weren't around, I think, you know, when I started out in power planning.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: So all pat I just wasn't, or I just didn't know of them, you know, even technology's advanced.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have LinkedIn years ago.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: So now you see all these sort of things come up on your news feed, we see your podcasts, you know, there's a whole mound of other things you can do.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, the PowerPlanner Club's brilliant.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to Chanel Patterson with her future bride, she's brilliant.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's, you know, yeah, there's definitely groups to join.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a there's, you know, there is there is women making change.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's also women in platforms, um, which is Amira Norris and Helena Wardle.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, fantastic.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's there is lots of groups that you can join or forums you can be a part of to get advice and tips and hints.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, there's you know you definitely wouldn't be alone even if you're not getting that support necessarily from within your business, like reach out to other people in the industry.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Most of us are more than happy to have a chat with you or guide you to where you can go or an exam that you can sit or something that you can do.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely reach out.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned there women mainly around administration.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, do you feel that there are more women within administrative supportive roles in the financial planning profession than there are men?
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Does it lend itself to women?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is it a better job for women?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that not the case?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, women just tend to stay in those roles longer because they don't have the confidence to progress on through for some reasons such as perhaps family commitments, children, that kind of stuff?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um in an admin function, in my experience, yes, that's generally more women, paraplanners, no.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I found that is a good split between men and women.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, certainly, you know, admin and like client services roles, generally speaking, my experience has been that those are those are with but you know, those are female jobs.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, perhaps it is because um, you know, yeah, it does it it lends itself into terms of hours and flexibility around, you know, school hours, for example, or coming back part-time after having children.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that that yeah, that could be that could be a reason.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, power planning, I think there's a there's perhaps a men in the men in those positions who are using it as a stepping stone to advice, but equally I've worked with male career power planners.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's got quite a good split.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: In the power planning role itself, I'd yeah, I'd agree with you there.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I tend to find though, like over the years, men tend to not stay in administrative roles as long as women do.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it's double, like women stay in administrative roles.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: So if a man goes into it for a guy goes into it for a year, right?
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they tend to get out of it within a year, yeah.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um and women don't.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then women come when I talk when I would talk to women about it, girls, women, and they they go in, they they go into it, they don't talk to me about I'm gonna use it as a stepping stone, whereas men do.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: And they always say, like, well, I'm willing to go at the bottom and you know work my way up.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas women just never really ever have that conversation.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: They never say to me, Well, I'm gonna do it as a stepping stone to become an advisor.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of the younger women that I talk to, either, if they're say, for example, they want to be a financial advisor, you have a I only have a bigger uptake of the women at the moment that are going straight in at advisor level, because of A, they're they're quite sought after.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: But especially with a lot of these academies, there's a lot of women that are like, nah, I'm not gonna do the admin route, I'm gonna go straight into advice.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's it's interesting, it's not necessarily it's not necessarily the wrong way to go about it, but uh, you know, it maybe it's because women who are then in an admin role, you know, there's there's there's like we said, there's there's not a lot of women in advisor positions.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that recent study shows that we account for under 50.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to say something like just five percent.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's we're like one in one in 20, something like that.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so perhaps it's because women currently in admin roles don't, you know, they haven't got someone to look up to, if you like.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why they there's there's not young women and young advisors, so maybe they think it's unachievable, they lack the knowledge or confidence to know that it absolutely is achievable.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I'm I'm I'm not entirely sure.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it's a shame because I think women, women make great advisors, and the advisors that I've come across are fantastic.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's not that's not bashing any men, I might just say.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: Oh God, no.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_00: I'm you know, we're not here.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I speak quite a bit about this really because um I'm not here to bash men either.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm yeah, I'm a guy, you know, and I've you know, I've got an office here that's um, I think it's like 55% women now.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: It never used to be, you know, recruitment again is a very male, male kind of boys club type, you know, type of environment.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: But all I know is the more women that I've brought into this business, the better our culture has been.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's nice to hear though, isn't it?
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's nice, they bring a good vibe.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and they're so and I think women naturally uh are quite nurturing, whereas like I don't know, we've not really had that before in in an environment like this.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I I we've got a one of our I think a couple of our top performers performers are females, and you know, I'm hoping that one of them is gonna trigger directorship and become a director because we don't have any women on our you know director level, it's all guys, just three guys.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really looking forward to that, to that happening.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all right, cool.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we go back to that financial advisor that you worked with, and she was a great mentor, right?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah, definitely.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: So if a financial advisor is listening to this now, or even a power planner is listening to this and looking for the signs of am I actually being mentored or am I being looked after?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or an advisor might be thinking, what could I do to inspire the power planner that I'm working with?
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: What can be done?
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if a power planner, if a you know what what is good mentorship when it comes to an advisor mentoring a power planner?
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think first and foremost, like being generous with your time.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if a if there's an area that a power planner is lacking in terms of knowledge, you know, technical knowledge or confidence.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, so you know, back in the early days, I, although I'd studied trusts and tax planning and that sort of thing, I wasn't very confident on them.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel like I had enough practical experience advising on trusts and setting trusts up.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: And and that that advisor that I worked with, Philippa, her name is, we'll we'll quote her by name, she's great.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she, you know, she sat with me and talked me through those, you know, those those key points.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: So just someone being generous with their time and their knowledge in that sense is is a massive confidence boost for one.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but two, it makes you feel valued.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think actually she doesn't think I'm stupid?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: She's just sat here and and you know helped me grow.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: And she, I think what set Philippa apart was that she very much made me feel like we were in a partnership, like any advice that was being given was the two of us, um, which you know really was inaccurate at the time.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: I did, I really do not feel like added a lot of value, to be quite honest.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was entirely her.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've held that with me through the rest of my career and and very much, you know, you touched on about the glitz and glamour of advisors.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, there are some advisors who don't have that view with their power planner or or you know, or admin client services teams.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I've I've held that with me, that like actually, you know, with a buffer for the advisor, we need we're making sure that that compliance and and and risk levels are being met, but equally with a buffer for the client, you know, would I want to tell my mum to do that?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: Would I want to tell my nan to do that?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_01: Is that the right thing for that client?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're that you're that middle ground.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think Philippa instilled that in me that like you're you're here to help me, you're not beneath me, you're you know, we're we're working together.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's at the very, very core of mentorship.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, in in you know, take them out with you, let them meet some of your clients, let them speak with some of your clients, make them really feel part of that advice journey and make them feel valued, I think is what it is what it comes down to.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's you know, people who are successful and good mentors are not, in my opinion, necessarily the people who have got the most qualifications or the most experience.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're they're successful because of how they make people feel.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's what I think.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the time they give the time they give people, you know.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, you're you're all on the same team and you're all trying to achieve the you're all you're all trying to achieve the same outcome.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: No one is beneath you, and I think it's really important to remember that.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: And that's I've been very fortunate with the people who've worked above me, you know, that have have instilled that in me, and I will carry that throughout my career and always have done.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I try and spend time with admin teams.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're certainly not, they're certainly not beneath anyone in the business, they're a really vital role within an IFA firm.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I always try and spend time with them, helping them grow in confidence and knowledge that this is why you're doing something, this is why we're asking you to do it in this timeline, for example, so that one, they recognise the value that they're adding in that overall process.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're not just there to like push paper, basically.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose as well, it's about the advisor really understanding that the power planner or the administrator might not have the same amount of client-facing knowledge as that advisor has that they've built up over the years, but they have a different perspective to bring to the table.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: I like what you said about being the buffer because you're there really as a duty of care to make sure the advisor A is giving the right advice and that what they're saying is correct, what they're presenting to the client is correct, but you're also there to protect the client, aren't you?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, most definitely.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, yeah, most definitely.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: I had Michelle spoke to Michelle a couple of days ago.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Hoskins.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is it Michelle Hoskins?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's international.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's she's lovely, and she's going to come on the podcast actually.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she was talking about her qualification she created the financial abuse qualification.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's about recognising people who are in abusive situations, especially financial abuse.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you know, the qualification itself, you think, well, there we go, that's must be the qualification a financial advisor should do.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but it's not, you know, a power planner has that ability to see uh if the client is possibly vulnerable.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, definitely manipulated into giving up their money or signing things away.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you are there as a duty of a duty of care as well, which I I really, really like.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's really important that an advisor brings power planners into client meetings also?
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's that really helped in your development by being able to sit down with clients and be client-facing?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's what you said a second ago, as you spoke about being client-facing, but that's not normal, that's not the norm.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Lots of parentheses do that, yeah, do not sit in front of clients.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, most of the time not.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, whether that comes down to a cost issue in businesses, I don't know whether they think I've I've certainly seen businesses where they want a very sausage factory approach, uh, sausage factory approach.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you're just here to churn out report after report after report.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're not, you know, this is where it comes into the differences of the paraplanner role.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there's some businesses that literally have report writers essentially, and I'm not I'm not dumbing that down, but that's that's what they do, they just write reports versus you know, all the way up to a technical analyst, someone who is heavily involved in the research, the due diligence, they sit with clients, they often speak with a client a lot more than the advisor.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would 100% advocate that because as a as a good paraplanner, sometimes the thing that you struggle with the most is the information you get from an advisor, the fact finds aren't completed fully, you don't have all the information you need, even on the soft facts, completely understanding what that client is trying to achieve or what's important to them.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for some clients, capital growth isn't actually the driving factor.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're not fast.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: Some clients want to reduce tax or they want to invest in a certain way because of, I don't know, political views, religious views.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's a whole mound of reasons.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just invest my money and grow it, obviously the huge portion that is.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when you involve a power planner in that meeting, one, they're in the meeting, they all the information's up there, they're not trying to decipher that from a handwritten document or you know, uh teeny weeny notes on a fact find that just aren't sufficient for you to write a good quality report.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also, you know, it's I found advantageous for the advisor because they're they're used to being client-facing, they're used to having those fluffy chats, I call it, you know, in terms of this is what we'll do, and that's that's the end of it.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, our our role as a power planner is to explain that coherently, compliantly, demonstrate the 10,000 loopholes the FCA want us to jump through.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's also for you know, the the power planner in that meeting could be thinking, oh, now the advisor hasn't mentioned XYZ, but the client really should know about that.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas that often happens later down the line, once you you're past that conversation.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: So by having that meeting and having the power planner there off, you know, from the from the start, uh is is is definitely beneficial.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately, it's just it's just not the norm within within advice firms.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: I like what you said there because you know, a financial advisor is under pressure to go out and win clients and build build relationships, bring clients in.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the time, perhaps they don't have the the time to be doing the deeper research into the whys and the what's.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've got somebody and you're a power planner, you know, you're sitting in the you're you're sitting in the meeting and you pick up on something that the client said that's important to them, it it triggers for you to be able to go away and do some research into that, that perhaps an advisor doesn't quite have the time for.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, if you're able to then take that that that you know, that I don't know, concern or worry that the client might have or desire that the client might have, go away, research it, be able to articulate it back to that client in a way that it shows that you have taken time and care in what it is that's important to them.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the financial advisor also benefits from that also because there's a deeper connection with the client, but the the advisor also learns from you in your research as well.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it goes kind of two ways, doesn't it?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, definitely.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the very core of it, the very core of advice is that we are demonstrating whatever we're advising to a client performs or achieves what we are leading them to believe.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: And you can't do that unless you fully understand what their objectives are, and you know, it yeah, it's it's it's a it's definitely a skill set in doing that because you know you can't just baffle people with jargon that aren't in the industry, it's it you you have you have to write it in a way the client's going to grasp.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: And some some advisers lack that because they're so used to just having a conversation in the way we are, it's very different when you try and articulate that in writing, which is obviously a legal requirement for us to do that.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and they forget some of those those technical aspects because they're just used to having that that that face-to-face conversation, whereas the paraplanner is, I think, hardwired to think of all compliance aren't going to like that, or oh, they haven't asked that question, or have you thought about this tax implication?
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you're you're definitely a buffer to the advisor, it's it's most definitely a partnership.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no kind of these unconscious biases of trying to get the client on board.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I know, like the industry, the profession has changed, people aren't commission-based, they shouldn't be thinking about the fee.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're a power planner, it's not targets and things aren't um, or income targets, if you like, aren't drilled aren't drilled into you.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: So when you do your job, you you you push that to one side.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's not important.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually being able to give the right advice.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the quality of it, most definitely.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the beautiful thing because if an advisor's not bringing the power planner in, then they're missing out on a huge opportunity to retain a client and build trust and a deeper relationship.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um, there's the the classic case where a power planner and advisor should be working closely together.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you get power planners right and they're supporting like multiple advisors.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: You might be supporting like three or four advisors, and they're trying, they're really kind of like working that individual quite quite hard.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's a lot of pressure for a power planner to take to try to have to manage four personalities of advisors with all different requirements and responsibilities?
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, most definitely.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: What's the maximum, do you think?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because again, power planners sitting in roles, getting stretched, you know, getting stressed now.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when in reality you were working underneath one good quality financial advisor and you had a good level of understanding of that individual, their personality, how they worked, how you fitted into the advice process.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: And some of these poor buggers are out there bloody managing like four different driven advisors who want things done their specific way.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what do you think about that?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so when I, you know, when I worked for Philippa, I worked like just for Philippa, but um, you know, in my in my last one, we had six advisors and four of which were the directors.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I wrote for all six.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it is a challenge, it's very, very difficult.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: You do feel very stressed, but it's I think ultimately I'm quite a positive person.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I try and take like the positives from all of it.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, definitely grooming as a professional, you learn to chop and change very quickly, you can keep up in a very fast-paced environment.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and definitely in terms of advice, you see the difference in advice between different different characters and different personalities, and the what's important to one is not important to the other, and you know, well, you must include this, and others are like, oh no, even fast, the client's not going to be bothered by that, don't put it in, sort of thing.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think ultimately it grows you, it grows you as a poanner to, you know, either work in a pooled environment where you're you're you know you're doing for different advisors or you're responsible solely for several.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, ultimately, ultimately, I think it's a growing thing, but it's very difficult and it is it is hard work.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's hard to keep up with.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think in that situation, it's probably not it's probably not where that's probably where firms say it's not possible for you to sit in on client meetings because there's just not the time available for a power planner to do that.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it would be very difficult, I think, to do that for three or four advisors, but I still attend their meetings.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it would be too busy, I think, in all honesty, which is a shame because I think they they add real value to the meeting, but equally the output that the advisor and the client would achieve would be of far higher quality.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's difficult for a power planner to say no to too much pressure?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think by nature, probably, because we're quite used to stepping up to that level of pressure and that level of responsibility.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know I'm certainly like that as an individual.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Someone, even if I know something's probably unachievable, I'll I'll give it a good go and I'll say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get it done.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: 3 pm deadline, sure, have it on your desk at half two, even though you know that that's probably not the case.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I think paraplanners as a whole, we're we're we're probably like that.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: We don't like to disappoint, we like to achieve results, I suppose, um, and and do the very best you can for the advisors that you're working for, but also for the clients, because I think that's always in the back of our mind.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, if you say you can't do something or you don't get round to it, the the end result really is that that's affecting a client.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I think that's a fair statement, probably that we're not very good at saying no.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_00: Philippo's done a great job with you.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: She inspired you, she kept you motivated, she kept you in part of the process and engaged and interested.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she obviously valued you enough to bring you into client meetings and you felt great about that.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you felt motivated to go to work.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of sometimes some power planners I speak to, it's really sad because they just don't have that relationship.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like them and us, and um they feel very isolated and kind of almost a bit like a mushroom, feed them shit and keep them in the dark.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know where they're going in their career, they don't know you know if they're gonna get a pay rise, they don't realize that if they work however hard they work, they're on the same salary.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: They have to they have to literally get uh approached by an recruiter who offers them a higher salary for them to be able to turn around to their advisor, you know, and say, Look, I'm gonna get uh 40 grand if I go and leave, and you're paying, you know, you're paying me 30.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: It just you know that there doesn't seem to be a great deal of clear uh career uh uh sort of uh framework framework there.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think you know a lot of firms can learn a lot by listening and getting the feedback from their administration administrative staff and their power planning staff um around their things they love and the things they don't like and what they'd like to see changed.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because by having that clear career framework in place, that clear personal development plan, you're gonna keep these individuals happy, you're gonna keep them motivated if there's salary bandings, if there's levels of responsibility.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you touched on it earlier about the power planner role is so broad, right?
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it but yeah, it all gets sort of amalgamated into the term power planner.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's so many different roles and responsibilities that sit within it.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: You could break the role of a power planner down into like five different roles, you know, you really you really, really could.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's I think if firms just broke it down and sort of worked out a plan with training and development alongside a personal development plan, you'll get a way happier, more engaged workforce.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: And they'll say you're gonna get your next generation of financial planners a lot quicker and they're gonna help you grow your firm.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna be internal because what I see, and obviously looking at your CV here, is that you've worked for firms and then you've moved to another one, and then you've moved to another one.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that's often what's happened, isn't it, in the power planning sort of profession is that people move from one to the other quite quite a lot, they move around a lot.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think bringing that in is gonna be uh instrumental to firms um keeping their staff, you know, and promoting from within.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um you moved on from um bespoke, sorry, you moved on from your senior power planning role to head of power planning, okay?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: So head of power planning with bespoke wealth management, and that's where you are right now.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_00: So what was one of the driving factors for you to leave a senior power planning position and then move into a head of power planning?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: Was it the um was it the fact that it was a more senior position with more responsibility, or is it deeper than that?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not necessarily more senior.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: I I already had a senior role at um at Tempus.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I had sole responsibility for certain, you know, their ESG proposition, um attitude to risk, due diligence, product research, you know, very high-level um power planning responsibility.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that's not changed.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's the same at that's the same at bespoke.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think what drew me to bespoke was more their ethos as a firm and how we've been talking about how how all staff in a firm are viewed, you know, this hierarchy within IFAs, you know, it's just not like that at bespoke.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, it's very, very chilled, it's very relaxed, and and our whole ethos centres around um, you know, sustainability and and and ESG investing, and that, you know, it's it making investment gains is still important.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's our sole job, that's our main fienna for clients, but um, you know, it's it's lovely to be able to do that and have a really positive impact as well on the environment and society as a whole.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's really what's set them apart for me.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, was their ethos, not necessarily the role that I'd be carrying out.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said about roles expanding and all, you know, all that sort of thing.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in a very strategic position, which is nice.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, but again, if you'd asked me that five years ago, I would never have thought that would be a possibility, or I'd be encouraged to do that, or I'd be in front of clients in every single meeting.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's lovely, it's lovely to have that value and a team that supports you on that.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_00: So a couple of things there that sort of stand out is one, there is this again, it's in your ambition.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're not somebody you've had experience of managing people in the past, you're a very ambitious person, you're also very technical, you're very good with clients, you're seeking and you're searching for something that's going to fulfill you in your ambitions, but also your clear skill set.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: And by joining a firm where they put you in a position of um creativity, influence, yeah, yeah, but your opinion is heard, is is is great.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what's really encouraging is that role is out there for power planners.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's out there for power planners.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're a power planner, doesn't mean you're just, as we say, you're over there and we're over here.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: What we're seeing more and more, and we're seeing it more and more as a recruitment company looking at the whole of the UK, is that power planners are being drawn more into strategic positions.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm I a chap I had on the podcast quite recently set up his own financial planning business, and it was imperative that you brought on a power planner to do the business.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've just spoken quite recently with um two compliance managers who set up their own financial planning firm.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: Not one of them are a financial planner.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was compliance managers setting up their firms to bring in financial advisors.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, when someone is quite an entrepreneurial and creative and strategic thinker, power planning isn't a role that, you know, you stay in that role and that's it for the rest of your life.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: Then it there is naturally, you can naturally go into these more strategic operational and be in of influence to the growth of the actual business.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, most definitely, yeah.
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_00: And it's beautiful you got into that space there as well.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think also you just said something really, really great around the ESG side of it, the positive impact, the environmental impact, social responsibility, all of those typical types of things.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not many firms within the financial planning profession are stepping up and talking about that and being open and honest around what it is they're doing, not just because they've maybe they shy away, they fear a little bit about if we talk too much about that, our clients are going to think we're not gonna make them any profit, right?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: But what's really important is that you have to be doing that.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be offering some ESG, you know, a solution to clients that's gonna have a positive impact on the future.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, you can't tarnish each and every single client who's of a certain age with a brush that they're not interested in the future of the world, because they've all got grandchildren and all sorts of things.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well that's left behind to them.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: But what's hugely important and what you saw is a company that cares, a company that wants to have a positive impact.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: And not enough financial planning firms are talking about it and standing up and doing it.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you this, right?
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you within your business start talking about the positive impact that you are having locally, um, environmentally, socially, not just for clients or um charities or whatever, but for your staff.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are you doing to empower your staff and give them the best experience?
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: The next generation of individuals that are going to come into your business is going to be like, I want to work there.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because you will stand out.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: You will change.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, massively.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's yeah, definitely.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one of the good things about bespoke is you know, we're obviously ESG focused for our clients and their investments, but very much in-house as well.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we um we we want to sort of be pioneering and and you know, leading the way, and that even our workplace pension is sustainable, our building is is is is on renewable energy, you know.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, like even as a business and individuals, it's um it's it's it's a passion for us, not just it's it's not just for our clients, and also it's it's it's a shame that ESG has got this, you know.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a lack of education within the industry.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for some people, you know, it's very much a hot topic, and it's been a hot topic very recently over the last like couple of years.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: But ESG is nothing new, it's been around for a long time.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's just an absolute lack of education, I think, from people in the industry that that somehow like you're going to have diminished returns if you invest sustainably, and it's it's just not accurate at all.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: Any anyone that that's that's worked with ESG propositions or understands them in detail, understands screening criteria if there is, or you know, impact pillars, whatever's surrounding the ESG, or that you know, there's lots of words for it, responsible investing, so like SRI, all sorts.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's it's there's there's so many avenues to it.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a real shame a lot of advisor firms just aren't leading.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: They might they might have an investment model as like a tick box exercise potentially, but they're not leading the conversation on that front, whereas as the spoke well very much are, and that's what I loved.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: The potential to grow that and grow with them is is is is lovely as a career choice.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: When you've been doing it 11 years, you think I'm not really going to find any, probably not going to find much else that I'm passionate about or a new avenue to chase.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: But but there is, there's always there's always something you can do or a different different path you can go down.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_00: Can often some people can often feel, I think you know, the draw and the attraction to financial services is money, it's making money, right?
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: There there is that draw into financial services.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the deeper you look into it, it can often feel a little bit of soul destroying that you make rich people more money and all of that kind of stuff, right?
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think when you're in that position and you're in that job, if you are thinking, right, well, what we're actually doing is actually having a positive impact down the line of the planet and people, then it becomes a completely different type of drive and a completely different reason as to why you're doing the job that you're doing.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the generations that are coming through, like we touched on this before the before the podcast started, but you know, we didn't, I was unfortunately I think wrote in Netflix and you know, uh Instagram and all of that kind of stuff just pummeled in my face.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: But the next generation are constantly being told about the you know the the the the impending doom and damage to the planet, and you know, we we're so well connected now that we can see the impact that fast fashion is having and you know any kind of negativity, deforestation, and uh they don't want it anymore.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think anybody really wants it anymore.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um to be able to link that to investing and pensions in particular, I think there's some really good stats around investing your money through your pension um uh ethically, right, is has about as big an impact as taking 50 cars off the road a year or something along those.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think people really understand that, but that's the type of thing that gets people excited about working in financial planning.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: That that along with the well-being focus.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've said it said it so many times, right?
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not I've got a suit on, I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna give somebody advice and walk out the door.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a whole well-being side to this proposition.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, becoming an advisor is about looking at people, listening to people, their behaviors, their psychology, understanding their fears, their worries, their concerns.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the time, we were just talking about before, is signposting, recognizing that somebody could be genuinely anxious or depressed at a certain point in their actual lives.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, it's not just about I'm just gonna put somebody in front of me and make them money, there's a whole human piece to this.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_00: And when you combine that then with ESG, it becomes beautiful, it becomes a really exciting and interesting place to work.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: That is how if I had a financial planning company, I would be branding us.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would be branding us in that on a well-being proposition with people and planet at the heart of what we do.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: Mindful, mindful financial advice for people and planet.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I would be.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_00: So you're on the right path there.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the fact that that was the draw that got you across to someone I bespoke because that shows who you are in, you know, internally and what's your driver.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you keep that ethos and keep that focus.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the next people that are going to come through to be talk about that, you're only going to inspire them to want to join you.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so, because it's a it's you know, it's rewarding, like you say, when you know you're actually having an impact and you're doing good, your growing clients' money, but you're also having a great impact.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's it's rewarding.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: I like having that that positive feeling, and you know, we all we all go to work because we have to earn money, but I think there has to be a level of passion in what you're doing, and you have to get some fulfillment and enjoyment five days a week, otherwise it it's that's morbid, isn't it?
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: Life's too life's far too short to spend it unhappy.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I think that's crucial, and like with bespoke as well, like you said about you know, making the rich richer, unfortunately, it is you know, generally it's an industry that's reserved for the affluent and the wealthy, but again, that's what sets bespoke aside with very um they they they share my vision that that even people with very little disposable income are equally deserving of financial advice, and that's why I love that they give me the time to go out into schools and talk to young people.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we don't make any money from that, we don't make any profit from that.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's about impact and it's about having um, you know, a positive influence, and that's it, that's their whole, that's their whole ethos.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's definitely what drew me to them.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: Danielle, I'm gonna have to draw this to an end now, but I could sit and talk to you you all day.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um lovely, lovely talking to you.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I just want to say first off, thank you so much for just sharing your career journey.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it will no doubt inspire lots of people who are listening, whether they have experience or don't have experience and they're thinking about getting into the role.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you've given a beautiful overview of your career journey, the the highs and the lows, the things that worked well, the things that might not have worked so well.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_00: And really what drives you, and I think that'll inspire lots of listeners to to either get into the profession or get going in the profession and move forward and you know, perhaps sort of up their ambition a little bit and maybe question and challenge some of the people that they're working with as to why aren't you supported me the way that I'm hearing other people have been supported?
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, caught ruffling a few feathers.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it's all about, isn't it?
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what it's all about.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, Danielle.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate your time.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: No worries, thank you.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.