Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / How To Brand Yourself As A Dancer

Transcript

How To Brand Yourself As A Dancer · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact, a Dance Competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: In 2023, it seems that everyone, from kids to grandparents to pets, are living much of their lives online.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: For dancers, having a clear-cut story through photos, videos, and reels, who you are and what you stand for, can be the difference between getting a job or getting overlooked.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Joining us today to talk about branding for dancers are Justine Mentor, dance career coach and mentor, and Sam Quinn, dance educator, IDA adjudicator, and publicist.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_05: Hello, dance world, and welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_05: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Leslie Miller.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Hey Courtney, can you believe it is the end of March?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god, wow.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_05: Season is in full swing.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_05: We're having the best time ever.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_05: We're out every single weekend.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_05: Judges are killing the game.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_05: It's it's going great.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's going great.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Dancers are killing the game.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's 2023, man.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's keeping us busy for sure.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_05: On our toes.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_05: I've been doing tons of staffing.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_05: I've been out myself, judging teaching every single weekend, pretty much.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_05: And uh, I mean, it's my favorite time of year though.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's comp season.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can't complain.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: It really is.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's, you know, busy is better than bored, as my grandfather always says.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we are definitely very busy over here at IDA.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been nice to see some folks out at spirit events uh recently.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks everybody if you've said hello to me.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Been really enjoying seeing all the dancers this season.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: But we are super excited to have a great topic today, specifically about branding for dancers.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I'm excited about this.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's super necessary to have this discussion because I think a lot of people don't really even understand what branding is for dancers and how that incorporates into our business and our industry, which it's hugely important these days.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_05: So we have some awesome guests joining us for this chat.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_05: But before we dive into that, we want to tell you about our sponsor, which is Apollo Performance Wear.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Have y'all ever tried Apollo shocks?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: I could not believe how much better my feet felt the first time I wore mine, and now I'm just obsessed with all of the products that they make.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Apollo Performance offers compression socks that support and protect your feet for class, performance, and daily life.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know I wear mine not only on the plane when I travel, but I wear them as a director of Spirit of Dance Awards.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I wear them for our 16-hour days, 6 a.m.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: to 10 p.m.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my feet feel f wonderful at the end of those days.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Apollo Performance is made by dancers, backed by science, and recently got a deal on Shark Tank.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Their socks offer arch support and compression to help protect your feet and enhance your point.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Add them to your dancer footwear for contemporary or wear them under your tap shoes for tap class.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: They even come in a variety of styles and colors so you can wear them on stage.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Try out a pair of Apollo Shocks now by using our exclusive podcast promo code.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Use the code IMPACT10 in all caps at checkout to receive 10% off your order at ApolloPerformance.com.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Dance longer, dance stronger with Apollo Performance.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm here to tell you about our Platinum Premium subscription that I know you've heard all season long, but if you haven't joined, we'd love to have you join over there.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_05: You get exclusive monthly bonus episodes just for Platinum Premium members and so many other perks, including an online critique from me, stickers mailed to you and your dancers, and ad-free listening in season four.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_05: We've had some new subscribers join us over there at Platinum Premium, and we want to give a shout out to Patty, a dance parent from California.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_05: Patty says, Thanks for such a great podcast.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_05: As a former competition dancer and now a dance mom, it sparks many conversations and sometimes arguments between me and my daughter.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_05: By the way, I danced at the Gold Studio way back in the day.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_05: I was incredibly lucky to have been taught by Sherry and Re and Rennie Gold and compete at Terpsicory, the competition that she founded.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_05: It was super cool hearing Re Gold's interview.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_05: Wow, that is amazing.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_05: I love hearing that.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_05: And it's just so cool.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_05: It's full circle to have been a comp dancer, now dance parent, and hearing your own teacher on our podcast.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_05: How cool is that?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_05: So if you would like to join our Platinum Premium subscription and help support our podcast for future seasons and years to come, it's only$5 a month, or you can pay a one-time fee for yearly access for all of this exclusive monthly bonus content.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_05: Join now by clicking the link in our show notes or visiting the website at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com/slash Platinum Premium.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we are excited to continue our popular Making the Impact Judges Choice Awards into the 2023 season.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: At all IDA affiliated competition events, your IDA judges will select one dance they felt made an impact in the entire event.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: This award can go to a dance of any size, age, or level, and will be rewarded for their execution, performance, or choreography as a total package.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Winners receive a physical award at the event and will receive a shout-out live on the podcast.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we have two that we want to shout out today.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_05: From Decadance Competitions event in South River, New Jersey, congrats to Olivia Albrecht for her solo Gravity from Diamond K Dance Studio in East Brunswick, New Jersey.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome job.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: And from Diva Dance Competitions event in Worcester, Massachusetts.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Congrats to Alina Narvez for her solo Mama's Place from Dazzle Studio of Dance in Feeding Hills, Massachusetts.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_05: Yay! We are so happy to have these awards going back out and can't wait to give you a shout-out live on the podcast.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_05: So if you've received the Making an Impact Award and an IDA affiliated competition, be sure to register your award with us so we can give you a nice shout-out on the pod.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_05: Alright, Dance World, it's time to jump into this week's episode all about branding.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_05: And what does that even mean when we say that?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_05: Because we're gonna talk all about that today on the podcast with two fabulous guests.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_05: And our very first guest is a guest you may remember from many episodes of Making the Impact.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_05: They have joined us lots and lots and lots of times.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_05: You may remember them from last season, season three, episode 87, Stage Presence: Why Performance Matters, which was one of our hottest topics of season three.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_05: They also joined us for two QA with Courtney episodes in season one and two, and our bonus summer episode where we went live at Spirit of Dance Award Nationals, which was so much fun.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_05: Leslie was there as well.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_05: We had a blast.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_05: It was so much fun answering questions for all of our attendees that came and joined us at that live.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_05: I'm excited to welcome back the one, the only Sam Quinn to the podcast.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome, Sam.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Hello.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_05: Of course, we always love having you here at Making the Impact.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_05: And uh Sam is one of our veteran judges on the roster.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_05: You've been with us for so long, and we're just actually out this past weekend with Leslie at an event.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was so funny.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's like time just never passed.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just here we are again.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: The season has begun.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_05: So uh Sam, I was excited to uh ask you to be a part of this discussion because you are a new publicist in the world.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that this is like an interesting uh career shift for you from being a professional dancer and performer and educator to now be sitting in the publicist seat.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_05: So I think that you can bring a lot of perspective to this discussion on branding.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm super excited.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: PR just like fell into my lap randomly, and I'm obsessed with it.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's great.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: I've always loved the entertainment, the media world, and through COVID, as we all know, the world shut down.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: So randomly just PR happened to be the next thing, and I love it.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: I work at an agency based out of New York City.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I do PR for a bunch of different companies, but most notably Target.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really fun to be working in the corporate side, but also there's so many moments and things that are super transferable from the PR corporate side to dancers, performers, entertainment, etc.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So excited to dive in.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for thanks for having me.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_05: Is there anything else you want to share about your fabulous career uh before we uh introduce our next guest?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I've done some fun things.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Favorite credits, our radio.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: I've done some things.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: That sounded so cocky, and I totally didn't mean it like that.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Radio City, Roquettes Forever and Always a Favorite, Bad Boys of Ballet and Bad Boys of Dance, and I organized the viral boys' dance too movement.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: So some fun little things.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that was like my first little moment into like PR and medium.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is that world?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: So excited to dive in.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_05: Can't wait to hear what you have to share.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for joining us again on the pod.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_05: All right, and our next guest is a brand new guest on our podcast.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I met this fabulous teacher and educator teaching alongside them at a dance convention many, many years ago.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_05: I haven't seen them since because they're on the West Coast.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_05: And we recently connected because I had the opportunity to be a guest on their podcast.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_05: They also have a podcast.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm excited to welcome Justine Mencer to the podcast.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome, Justine.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you for having me, Courtney.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, absolutely.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_05: And I knew that when we reconnected recently, and I know you reached out when you were starting your podcast, which I've loved following your journey, and I'm so proud of what you've accomplished with your podcast.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_05: It's about like a year old now, right?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_05: And you are doing such great stuff for the dance world as far as kind of creating like an industry coach and mentor for people.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_05: So uh dancers can come to you if they're breaking into the West Coast industry of Los Angeles, and you can help guide them a little bit with your program, which I I want you to tell the world a little bit more about you and then also about your podcast and your coaching platform.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, well, I've been in LA for a little over 15 years, just kind of navigating this crazy land over here.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, wearing 17 different hats and multi-hyphenating, you know, just normal dancer things.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, and in that time I had my own company, a dance entertainment company that I started a while back.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: So I did that for a while, and that was my main concentration.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's called Flirt.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: It was an all-female identifying dance company.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then we kind of I kind of shifted more dance education, choreography, did some fun things, and then went to kind of during COVID, also shifted a little bit into the digital realm where I work one-on-one and in group settings with aspiring and professional dancers.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_04: And I mainly focus on their marketing and casting materials and use that as a jumping point to help them leverage their careers.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_05: And what is your company called?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_05: What are you and and your podcast?
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_05: Give a shout out.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's my company's mentor management.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_04: So doing lots of consultations with dancers, and then the podcast is Dance Careers Unfiltered.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_04: Nice.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_05: Everyone, be sure to check out Justine's podcast.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_05: We will be linking it in the bio and show notes of this episode.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_05: So be sure to check that out and you give a listen because we love dance podcasts over here at Making the Impact, and we love sharing new ones with our listeners around the world.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_05: So be sure to check it out.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_05: It has so much helpful information.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_05: And the episode that I was on is gonna be coming soon on your pod, which I can't wait to listen to.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_05: Same.
• 11:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_05: So let's jump on in because we have so much to cover on this episode when it comes to branding as a dancer.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_05: Leslie, let's kick it off.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do it.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the concept of branding for a lot of our listeners is gonna feel really foreign because I think for a really long time, you know, you th when you think of a brand, you think of Kellogg's or you think of Apple.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, those are things, uh, companies, entities, not necessarily people, but as dancers and entertainers have really, you know, come more to the forefront of of, you know, I hate to say it, but almost being a commodity themselves.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes uh an important thing to think about, especially if you're somebody as a young person who's looking to get into the entertainment industry.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love to hear from both of you kind of what your thoughts are about what does branding even mean in the context of the dance world for a person.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I can kick us off.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think branding is such an interesting word.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think, like you mentioned, it's a daunting word.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I think with branding, it's just what story are you telling?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: What is your point of view and what are you trying to get across?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think working from Target, you know, there's specific ramifications of like, what is the story we're saying?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: What are we putting out into the world?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: But as a dancer and an individual, and whether you're a company, you would own your own company or a podcast, for example, what is your point of view?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: The first step to figuring out how to brand yourself is figuring out what do you stand for, what do you want to say, and how do you do it.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: But the first question you need to ask yourself is like, what do I want to do?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: What do what do what mark do I want to leave on this world?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And from there you can backpedal and figure out the steps and the questions and the answers, the answers to those questions to figure out how you put these steps into motion.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think a good example of this is Kim Hale.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_01: Kim Hale is a branding genius.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: She used to be an agent.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: She had a budding career as a choreographer, but now it has, I don't want to say like rebranded, quote unquote, but has is now marketing herself as this dancer over 50 who is absolutely crushing it.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: All of her content is totally aligned with that vision, with that message, with that story.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And everything in that world correlates back to what her point of view is.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: She's a dancer over 50 who is auditioning.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's taking class, she's posting all this content.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Her brand is that.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Alex Wong, for example.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: Alex Wong is an incredible artist who's branding himself more in the mainstream TikTok world, if you will.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Social media, all the social media trends, but putting a fun spin on it.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Boss Baby Brody is another example of, you know, taking another small little child and, you know, working in the influencer world.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: There are specific point of views with so many different people.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And their their key to success is figuring out their niche, like question.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: What are you what are you bringing to the world?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: What is your story?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what is your why, if you will.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when you think of a brand, you have to ask yourself like, what is your message and what is your point of view?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And from there, creating content or putting out, you know, different reels or or quotes or pictures, whatever it is that speak exactly to that point of view.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_05: Love it.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_04: Anything to add, Justine?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I totally agree and I feel that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_04: Shout out to Kim Hale.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: She was my agent.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_04: Go Kim.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: Kim is Kim is the best.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, she was your agent?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_04: She was my agent.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_04: She was my gosh, cool.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_04: My dance education agent at MTA.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_04: So we go way back.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: And she's also been a guest on my pod, you know, all the things.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_05: I'm gonna have to listen to that.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, she's great.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, I I think when you kind of dial it back and you think about what branding is and what it means for dancers, it's basically a way for people to perceive you.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_04: It's how people think of you when they want to consider hiring you.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_04: And it's not just the moves, it's not just the dance moves anymore in this massively digital age that we're in.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's why this word has kind of snuck in there a lot recently.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_04: And it does feel a little icky sometimes because you're like, I'm a dancer.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_04: Why do I need to worry about this business word?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_04: But I think when you when you dial it back, it's basically how does somebody recognize you?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: What do they think of when they think to hire you?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: Are you gonna fill that void for them when they are casting for their project or whatever that might be?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what I always say when I'm when I'm talking, or I do a workshop on this or whatever.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, you know what that swoosh is.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_04: You know what the Nike swoosh is because you see it everywhere and you know the vibe and you know what you're gonna get and you think of things when you when you think of what Nike is.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: And then when you think of dancers, just like the ones that Sam just mentioned, you the a lot of different emotions and vibes come to mind when you think about those certain people.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_04: And that's really what it is with branding, is not necessarily putting on a facade or, you know, making a logo, really.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's more about just like Sam said, how you're making them feel, what is it that your intention is, and how do people yeah, how do they almost categorize you?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: How do they fit you into s a certain box that they might need to fill?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: Such a good point.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I I've been, so I'm I'm everybody's grandmother or grandfather really.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Most people, most men watch this show, but I've been watching a lot of The Food That Built America on the History Channel, which isn't this excellent series that chronicles all kinds of brands of food that we know and love today from, you know, the 1800s on.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And as we're talking about this, you know, I'm it just it's so it's exactly the same, except we're people, you know.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a Pop-Tart, I'm a dancer, but but Pop Tarts are not for everyone.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Pop-tarts are for a specific customer who wants, you know, a a kind of a treat, kind of a breakfast food or a snack.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Dancers are the same way, you know, just like you were saying, Justine, you know, how do people recognize you?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: How do how do they fit you into this category of where they want to place you or what their what their messaging is as a company?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's an important thing to note too, that, you know, once we get a little bit more into the social media part of the conversation, you know, you don't have to brand yourself to be appealing to every single person out there.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's just impossible.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and like you said with with the people you mentioned, you know, Kim Hill's not for everybody.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Boss Boss Baby Brody is not for everybody.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's a sp there, they have niches that really appeal to certain, you know, certain people and demographics.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I think that's I'm so excited to dive deeper into that part of the conversation too.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_05: I think that the interesting thing about branding, and I I love that what you mentioned, Justine, about the fact that we're in such a digital world right now, because this is more crucial now than it was when I think all of us started our careers 10 years, you know, 10 years plus ago, however long ago.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um, because social media that we're about to talk about is excellent.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_05: It is part it is part of the industry.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_05: Like w whether we want to accept it or not, it's it's a requirement and did not really exist much back then.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_05: And I will say that like one of the hard things for me I've noticed like as a dancer, and I've I've sort of evolved my brand through the years, but I think that it's always so encouraged to be versatile in this industry.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_05: And we even even in your intro, you uh Justine, you were like, I like I wear um tons of hats.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_05: And like we all do, we all have at a point in time, we still currently do.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_05: So that makes it hard to figure out how do I brand myself?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_05: Do I have to brand myself in each separate category of I'm a dancer and a teacher and a choreographer and a business owner and a this and a this and a this.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_05: But then you can get even more specific.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_05: You can be like, well, as a dancer, I'm a jazz dancer, a contemporary dancer, a lyrical dancer, or this dance.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_05: Like it's just almost overwhelming on how how do I even like narrow it down to best describe me as an individual and like market myself in the best approach is probably one of the hardest things, I think, for dancers to kind of navigate which route they want to go.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_05: Because there are so many times in this industry where you get put in a box as to I only view you as a jazz dancer.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_05: And you're like, but no, I can do everything.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: I'm an everything dancer.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_05: I want to be a fierce commercial dancer, dancing in my heels and my my bra and fishnets, but I can also do American and Paris 32 foot as a point.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_05: And it's just like it's hard to uh kind of figure out the the best way to brand yourself in the right light so you can be exposed to the most opportunities because you don't want to like box yourself into one specific thing.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's also on that point, I think it's important to say that like your brand doesn't need to be one way.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't need to be a one-way street.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: You can be 700 different things.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a matter of how you choose strategically to showcase it.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're posting a reel from when you did American in Paris to a hip-hop piece that you did, whenever, being strategic about how you post and when you post and what you're posting is the way to do it.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't have to be this like, I'm only marking if you're only marketing yourself and branding yourself as a ballet dancer, fantastic.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Put all your content, make all your content as a ballet dancer.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're, you know, you can do XYZ, you are the, you know, the theater industry unicorn, you can do everything.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Your content needs to reflect that.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's I think it's important to show that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you can wail and, you know, cover alphabet, but you also can be, you know, the Velma Kelly in Chicago, like you need to show everything.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Give it give it everything that you have, but be strategic about it and make sure you're doing it in a way that's impactful, that really showcases you.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: But it has to come from an authentic and genuine place.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it I don't I don't want to say like blow, like post everything every single day, but like it needs to be an authentic, genuine way to weave that into your your POV, your point of view, and your storytelling as you're you know curating this content, whatever it may be.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_04: I think it comes from a few different.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: From 100%, by the way.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: All of that.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: Especially the part about the on authenticity.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: But I think it comes from two places.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like you were saying, Courtney, the struggle of being like, but I'm I'm a lot of things.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_04: I'm I can offer a lot as a person and as a performer and to your project.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: I'm valuable in so many different ways.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_04: And that feels really stressful for a lot of dancers.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_04: I hear this all the time where they're like, where do I even start?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: How do I put out that?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_04: And how do I define this?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like, I think it's human nature to want to categorize and want to put things into perspective in that way.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that's totally normal.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_04: But I agree with Sam too.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like you kind of just have to start somewhere and put out what you know because you're going to it's going to change.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_04: You're going to evolve into a different person and a different performer as well.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_04: And you just kind of have to start with something.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_04: And you have to be able to show this, also comes from a place from the casting where if I had to be like, hey, um, Leslie, I'm going to send you a dancer right now.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_04: I need you to hire for your next project.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_04: You would instantly look them up.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: To see instantly.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't even know me, but I look everybody up.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: If there's something about you on the internet, I'm going to find it.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: And like you have to have the proof.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's proof.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have the proof.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: The receipts.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I can't find you and I don't know you, I'm not, I don't, I'm not taking the time.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not taking the time to ask any questions or ask you for something.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: You should have already had it there.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: It should have already been given to me.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's too many other people who are doing it well and doing it right.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: That I just, you know, casting directors do not have the time to just to, you know, unless something is like sparkly about you and there's some kind of like, you know, vibe that they're getting just from the one thing you sent, you know, it, it's, it's gotta all be out there.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so curious.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, Justine, you said you were talking about, you know, you have to start somewhere.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And when you start at the beginning, like, you know, not necessarily throw spaghetti at the wall and hope it sticks, but start somewhere.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: So if we've, if we've got a lot of parents listening, which we do, and they've got younger children who are dancing who want a social media presence, or they're all, you know, the family coordinatedly are thinking we want to do this, you know, we want to start getting more involved in the dance industry.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: What is your advice for where to start for somebody like, you know, a seven or eight-year-old, you know, in terms of social media and branding and and where do you even begin?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's not gonna be that different to what I would tell a professional, to be quite honest.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, certainly in the kinds of appropriateness levels, you would want to check that.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_04: But I would say you need to have a voice and not just show the perfection.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: You want to show the progress as well.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that's where people get caught up.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_04: And we're as dancers, we are like fine-tuned to be like the performance, recital is this is the most important thing.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_04: But we forget that it took hours and hours and months and months of classes and rehearsals to get there.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: So I would suggest, and this is just a few pieces of things that I would say to show behind the scenes, show the rehearsal process, show the human side of the process so that people can get an idea of your vibe and your essence in that way, and not just show the best video and the best photo, but and then another part of that video, video, video.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_04: Not just pictures.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_04: Why?
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_04: Because you get to see how you are in real time, and it's not a cut-up phrase.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: I don't even mean like show a whole reel that's cut up.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like show a snippet of your performance, show a snippet from class, show a snippet from rehearsal.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: I'm loving those behind-the-scenes ones.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_04: I don't you guys have probably seen them where they show the rehearsal and then the finish and it's like boxed into the same video.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_04: Like I like that, and I'm sure we all feel a certain way when we do that too.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I think video, and then I'm sure Sam can speak to this a little bit more than me, but I think just visibility-wise, people are more drawn to video and like you know what Instagram is is putting out more of like they're trying to put out more video content.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I would say, and if you again, if I said Leslie, go look up this dancer and you didn't see any videos of them, you'd be really weary.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_04: Be like, how do they dance?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_04: You have to show that proof.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_04: So putting out the evidence of your greatness.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And just to piggyback off evidence of your greatness.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: I stole that.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_04: It's not mine.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: I stole it from my agent, Jimmy.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: I will give him credit.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Put that, I was gonna say, put that on, put that on the shirt.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's merch.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, right?
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's merch.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Also branding.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Branding.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think everything that uh Justine said, but also it's about the consistency and the way that the social media algorithms are now curated, you have to be posting consistently in order to show up in feeds.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: TikTok, Instagram, those are like they always are competing as to like how does our algorithm change?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: How does it compete with the other existing platforms?
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: So because of the rise of TikTok, that is the easiest way to grow your following, grow your brand, whatever it may be, because of the user engagement on that.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: But in turn, Instagram is also turning to reels to mimic the in the TikTok algorithm.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So reels are is the best way to truthfully increase your exposure, your engagement, your views, whatever it may be.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: But the consistency is where is like the bread.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: That is the that's that's the proof point.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Making sure it's consistent, making sure that what you're posting consistently is in line with your brand, of course.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: But also just making sure that what you're posting is is true to you.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you are doing 19 pirouettes and you fall out of it, like people also love to be like, lol, look at this.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I fell.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is funny.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Finding those, the human connection, that organic nature in your content is is what really resonates.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: But then, like we mentioned, the before and after show the growth.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think just speaking to the parents of like the younger kids, like in studio footage versus stage footage, photo shoots, whatever it may be, finding those those moments that still capture your human quality, but also are able to like show that you're performing on stage, you're winning awards, you're getting this these trophies, you're winning title, whatever it may be.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Keeping it in line with your age, who you are, and nothing like an eight-year-old is posting what an eight-year-old should be posting and not what an 18-19-year-old should be posting, if that makes sense.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: But having the consistency, I think, and just staying true to what the social media trends are and the actual like algorithm and the science behind social media is one of the, I feel like, underwritten key to successes.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_05: I want to speak about this this whole like, you know, child on social media, children on social media, parents managing their accounts on social media and things like that, that we all kind of hinted at different aspects of it.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_05: I love what you said, Justine, about the fact that there needs to be actual video footage on the the kids' platform because anyone can do a pose and make it look good.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_05: And let's be real, if you're only showing photos of beautiful leg lines and beautiful feed and turned out positions, but then you don't know how to do a account that flows with style and technique and control, then I can't what I we're not there yet.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_05: Where you you just know how to pose.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_05: You just know how to stretch your leg.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_05: You have good flexibility.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and somebody probably coached you or positioned you or you took that photo 17 times.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Or photoshopped your foot.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: The bigger looking.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and like, and listen, I'm so out of the loop when it comes to technology, but you know, I follow a few body positive Instagram people and they keep showing demonstrations of like what these apps, like certain apps, can do in terms of manipulating and like photoshopping your body and manipulating.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's like, I don't know, some of it's too good.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't, I wouldn't know.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe should maybe her foot does look like that.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's shocking.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: So with yeah, I think I love the progress report sort of posts.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's a good way to go.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_05: With that, I will add that while I think there are some beautiful photos out there, I also think that it's very clear to me when a parent is running an account that knows nothing about dance, that's posting photos that they think are great of their child that are then in return an inappropriate angle that becomes uncomfortable, like a crotch shot to the world, with also poor technique behind it.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_05: So it's like, whoa, like I see that I'm like, oh my gosh, wait, hold on.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_05: You're posting this because you think this is great.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_05: And again, we're not gonna be perfectionists and we're not gonna be perfect at 10 years old, but we also have to know like you are branding yourself in the wrong light by doing that if you think it's great.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_05: Because if you think that's great, we have a problem in the training because the training's not you know, it's like I'm kind of like going back on what we just said about like showing the real you.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_05: It's the difference of like knowing when it's wrong versus highlighting that you think this is right when it's not.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_05: Do you know what I mean?
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_05: Like, and that's like a thing for me that I notice a lot.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_05: And like, and then then on social media, there's a lot of creepers out there, and you don't know who's looking at your account.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_05: If it's not a private account, you do not know who like is stalking the dance little children, you know, Instagram accounts, and then they see them in practically a bikini doing a leg extension that's highlighting things that shouldn't be highlighted.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, cover up, you know, that that might be acceptable in the dance world, but again, when you post it online, we're not just in the dance world anymore.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_05: Now we're in the world.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_05: The whole entire world can see what might not be the norm for them and kind of it might not be like the best impression sometimes, depending.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_05: So I think it's just important for the parents to remember that because they're the ones that are probably running this account thinking, oh well, I saw somebody else do it.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_05: I saw someone else post this and it was, you know, got a thousand trillion likes, so I'm gonna do it for my kid.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think you have to start with what your goal is.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_04: I think you have to recognize that first.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_04: So, what is your goal in using it?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_04: Is it to gain followers?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_04: Is it to have promotion, or is it just to have um resources for people to look at when they are kind of trying to view you and trying to consider you for work?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I think if it's just like there to be like a digital business card, then cool.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_04: But if you're trying to use it to gain um do you know what I'm saying?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so use to get traction.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like I think you have to kind of figure out what it is that you're doing.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_04: And what like why you're using it first.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: Figuring out the end goal and working backwards is the key to success.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you're trying to book a job and you're trying to book Chicago, like you post all the Fossey stuff.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're trying to, as a kid, just have a social media presence, it still needs to be appropriate for what what your age group, your demographic is, and who your audience is at the end of the day.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is it just your dance friends?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like, cool, awesome.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're following and engaging with casting directors and they see like an eight-year-old in a bikini in a weird pose, right?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what the heck is wrong with what's wrong here?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's so many it opens up the door in a can of worms for so many questions.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you just have to keep in mind who your audience is and who you're trying to target.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the at the end of the day, that's the most important thing.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: But also safety.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, don't post that stuff.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so I I had an experience with a dance mom who is not a dancer uh a couple years ago.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And her daughter was just getting into dance and, you know, getting really excited about it.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: She changed studios, now she's at a great studio.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And her, you know, asked because all her friends at this great studio now have social media, and she's eight or eight or seven or eight or something like that.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I so I followed her and I was like, oh, follow her account, you know, great, whatever.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I sh she was posting videos of her doing walkovers, back walkovers.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: She just got her back walkover, and like that's so exciting.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: But as I was watching the video, I was like, oh no, she's just wearing a leotard with no tights and the angle of this video.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: I understand why she's proud of her back walkover.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're looking at a back walkover from the wrong angle on the internet, that's not that's not good.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I like immediately texted her and I said, I am so proud of her, you need to take that video down.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can film her doing it from the side.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe she should put some shorts on.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's and it's little things like that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: So like if dance parents are are, you know, questioning anything, like it's sort of like with the music question.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if you if you're questioning it, it's not postable.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: If you have an inkling of a doubt, change it, figure it out, run it by somebody else, you know.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And and she immediately was like, Oh my god, I never even thought of that.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: We were just so excited, she got her back walkover.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I know, of course you were.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: But there's so much more to think about now, right?
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Sadly.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And even just ask your dance teacher.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're if you're Cindy posting for your eight-year-olds, whatever, ask the dance teacher, be like, is this good?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: Can you look at this picture?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Is this technically correct?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Does this look okay?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: Can I post this?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Ask a question.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: It takes four seconds for him to be like, oh God, no, that picture's awful.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: Don't post that.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Be like, okay, I didn't know.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: But have the conversation and don't take it upon yourself to post something that is one unsafe for the dancer, but also like is going to show you off in a bad way.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_05: I even like, uh, you know, as we're sitting here talking about this and we're talking about like specifically branding yourself, like as a dancer.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_05: But I'm even thinking of just like dance brands in general.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_05: And like me as a business owner running Impact Dance Adjudicators, like I uh wanna make my company feel like if you like prestigious in a way that I we know what we're talking about because we're we have judges.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_05: So like if I post a photo of a dancer with approval of whoever uh from the competition, from the parent, I always try to pick photos that are showcasing proper technique and training in the the before my brand.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_05: Because I d and I'm not saying that like dancers who are still training can't be posted, but I want to show that like I am highlighting and featuring this graphic because it's it looks great, it has good training, I can see the foundation instead of like rewarding poor technique and like it's just this interesting like person.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if this makes sense, but like I don't I like I ha if I go to a competitions website and I see a dancer with sickle feet, bent legs, and inverted legs, and uh and that's like the the the photo on the website, I probably wouldn't sign my kids up for that competition because you you think that's the best photo out of all the dancers that we could have picked, you're featuring this to represent your brand.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_05: And that tells me that maybe y'all don't really know what good technique is.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, and like the same can be applied, unfortunately, dance studios.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, you have to look at it in the in that branding of how do you want an a customer to perceive your business?
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_05: Are we supporting bad technique or are we supporting beautiful technique and training and things like that?
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_05: I know we're gonna have dancers at of all abilities at this, but like when you put something online as as a part of your company, you're saying like this is what we represent, like this is what we support, this is this is our product at the end of the day.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_05: And I just think that's something another interesting like way to look at it because I don't know.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_05: There's there's good and bad to both, but people probably will disagree with me on that one.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: But no, I think it makes perfect sense.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you look at a restaurant menu, you're going you're looking at a restaurant online and you see pictures of their food and it looks not great, you're not gonna go there.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: You're not gonna book a reservation.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: If uh and it's the same thing here.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's your business card.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's you're responsible for the output that you're putting.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you're putting a undercooked cheeseburger with like sloppy french fries that don't look crispy, like you're not gonna be like, I need to go here yesterday.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: That looks delicious.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_04: That looks great.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_01: I can't wait to go.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, no, you need to be smart about what you're putting out there, but also thinking from a strategic business lens of like, what is the goal of this picture and what is the ROI or the like the return of this picture that you're gonna see?
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Are you trying to get students?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Is this sloppy cheeseburger with like wet uncooked fries going to bring me money?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_01: End of discussion.
• 38:41
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• 40:10
  SPEAKER_05: Uh footage would come into play for branding purposes.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like, look at where we started, look at where we ended, look at how this transformation, look what we can achieve at my studio.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_05: If you come here, you're gonna start here, I'm gonna get you up here.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_05: Like that makes sense, as opposed to like posting mediocre dancing on every video.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_05: And it's just like, mmm, okay, I'm not sure.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think also the most important thing about just as parents are thinking about branding is like the 160 characters that you get in your bio.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: What are you putting in your bio?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Are you putting like Courtney?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Your bio is fantastic.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: Of like, as seen in Fosse, you were uh, you know, owner of impact.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: You you can re take four seconds without scrolling your grid and just see what you've done.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's like a quick, quick snapshot of who you are, what you do, and like what you're offering to the world.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: You have your bio in there.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a very, very condensed version of your resume.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: But those like 160 characters, I think, are also one of the most important things that parents should really take into consideration when starting a social media or expanding upon it of like what are you putting in that bio?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: Are you putting like Sally loves chocolate and she also loves tiaras?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it like winner of XYZ, Y A G P scholarship?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like you need to be strategic about what you're putting in your bio, end of time.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_04: I think another thing that people are forgetting on their bios, and I totally agree because I see a lot of mistakes on the bios, even from professionals.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_04: But for kids, I see a lot of like all the trophies, like everything that they've won.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I like that, but I also want that human side again.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, maybe not chocolate and tiara, but just something that like my bio, that's what I'm saying.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Mine's chocolate and tiara.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I'm not mad at it.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think I'm mad at it.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_04: But if it's just something a little bit more human-y to connect to, and also I don't know if I would do this for kids, but for professionals.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_04: They don't put location if they don't put location and somebody sends me a bio and then I'm like, are you local to where I'm hiring?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: Do I need how do I hire you?
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_04: Do I need to get you in here?
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how are we doing this?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_04: So don't forget that too, because I think a lot of people are missing that.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that's we were talking headshot and resumes with Sean Webb recently.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what he said.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, it's shocking the amount of times a resume comes across my desk and there is no way to contact the person.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: No email address, no phone number.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: I and I don't know how to help you if you don't put that there.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's like baseline.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: How do I get in touch with you?
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just thinking good thoughts.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I don't know about kids either.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's fair.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, for for adult people, at least one of those little pins, you know, that cute little pin, that red pen NYC.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_04: You don't even have to include it in the 160 characters.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's actually just like one of the boxes you fill out, and then you can it pubs up on your on your bio.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_04: Mine's in there, something like that.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_04: So then you don't have to do, I mean, I do like the red pin if you have room for it.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_04: But then yeah, it's cute.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_04: It is cute.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_04: But then you can actually, when you fill it in in your bio and it's just like in there, it's actually clickable for them.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: That's great.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, cool.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, so we talked about like branding on social for kids a little bit.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_05: What about the let's say that you are a dancer and you grew up in the competition world and now you're about to break into the pro world?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_05: You've had your Instagram, you marketed it throughout the years, you you know, evolved as you got into the senior division and have all your accolades and uh trophy pictures and first place overalls and all the things.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_05: But then how do how do they transition?
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_05: How should it look once they want to start per pursuing the professional career?
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_05: Because, like we already said, you know that casting directors are looking at their Instagrams.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_05: So is that how they want to come across on Instagram as I I was a competition dancer.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_05: Or, you know, obviously that was part of your life.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_05: But like, how does that evolution of and transition happen?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_05: Is there any advice on how to approach that for those dancers?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I would say just with authenticity, as we've been discussing, you know, show what your new journey is.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: You graduated, you went here, you're now you're in classes, now you're in auditions, now you're doing X, Y, and Z, you're in a new city.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_04: Show the journey.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_04: Show the journey that you're on, and then get some really good new footage so that you're not only seeing what the competition step on front.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I would say invest in really good footage and headshots and then pin your best posts to the top so that people aren't taking a million years to scroll down.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's great advice.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_04: You know?
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also with social media, yes, it's just about posting, but it's also what you're doing on the back end in terms of like engaging.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you following?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: Who are you staying up to date with?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: Who who are your like dream people that you want to work with?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And how are you using social media yourself?
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not only just from a posting standpoint, but like, are you commenting?
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are you liking?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Are you following the people that you want to work for?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are you following the people that you want your career to look like?
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think another brilliant person who does branding phenomenal is Robin Herder.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: She is from Do you know her?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: You how do you not know Robin Herder?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: Robin Herder is like the biggest icon.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um she's in the Neil Diamond musical right now.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: She was um Roxanne and Moulin Rue.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: She was the Tony Knub.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: She got a Tony Knum for it.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um she's incredible because she has a perfect blend of like, here's my fierce leg, but also here's me as a mom.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can also belt my face off, but like here's me making a cocktail.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there's like a really nice blend of like human versus dancer, but it's a nice balance of like I can do I'm doing it all.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still a mom, but I'm still working on Broadway, you know, eight nights a week.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Eight nights a week.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, eight shows a week.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: But like if you want to be like Robin Herder, follow Robin Herder and start like mimicking what she's doing.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you want to be cast in Moulin Rouge, who's in the cast?
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: Follow the people, follow the choreographer, stay up to date with who is doing what and what trajectory you want to follow and like study them.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Use it as like a case study to figure out like this post is working really well for her.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: She got nine million likes on this post, kind of like we talked about before.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: But like, how can I take what like the strategy behind this post and make it my own to push myself forward?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: But also thinking on the back end, like, who's gonna see this?
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to work for Andy Blank and Bueller, like who's working for him right now?
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: What are they doing?
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: What is working well for them?
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: What is their style?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: What is their like well, and and that lets you know too.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do this all the time, even before social media.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: Who's my track?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, who is your track?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: When that girl leaves, I can that's my track.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's what I would do every time I watched a show.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: I look for the short girl.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Who's the dancer?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Who doesn't cover the lead?
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's my track.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's that's that's pre-social media.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Figure out your brand, figure out who you're following, figure out what career you want for yourself.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's so much easier now because it's all at your fingertips.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to spend a hundred dollars to go see a Broadway show to find your track.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can look at you can look at social media and you know, find the short girl and be like, okay, well, what did what did she do prior to me or prior to this career?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, did she work regionally?
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: Did she work here?
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: What show did she do?
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, you know, imitation is a very sincere form of flattery.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't mean you have to steal exactly what they do or what they wear or how they look, but you know, it's it's knowledge.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_05: What about like uh discovering who you are as far as like where you fit in the industry with your look, with your style, with like, you know, because casting is just so specific.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_05: And it's kind of it's tough to kind of navigate like your best you, uh how to present your best you to casting and catering it to the different job opportunities that you want to be considered for.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_05: So for example, everyone knows me for my hair.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_05: Like everyone knows me as this short, athletic, fierce, versatile, curly haired dancer.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_05: Like that's what you think of when, or like these days, you might think of me as a jazz dancer, jazz educator, podcast host.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, whatever.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_05: But like in the casting world in New York City, everyone's I always wore my hair down.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_05: Like that was my signature.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_05: I never wore my hair in different styles because I wanted people to always remember, oh, the girl with the curls.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah, Courtney with the curls, and we remember her.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_05: Like that was what worked for me in my branding.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_05: And of course, you adjust and you adjust your outfit or you adjust your makeup or things to cater to the job.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_05: But like, what if someone doesn't have curly hair that they can, you know, make that their signature?
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_05: Like, how do you figure out how to stand out in a pool of 300 female dancers standing in a room with you for a type cut?
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_05: Do you know what I mean?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_05: Any advice on that?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I have a lot of advice on that.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_04: Give it to us.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm like, I have a lot of opinions about this subject.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think a lot of that obviously comes with a bit of experimentation to see what works for you.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it's also knowing the market.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_04: So here in LA, I'll give myself for an example.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm not um in front of the camera really so much.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, besides like podcast stuff.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: But I would say in terms of performance, but when I was out there, I was generally blonde and I'm curvy and kind of all American looking.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_04: And I booked more when I was a little darker, my when my hair was darker and not so blonde, because I didn't fit, and this is again LA over world, I didn't fit like a blonde bombshell role as much.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_04: So that didn't work for me.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_04: And I had to learn that as I would go to auditions and then, you know, having your casting headshots up online on your casting profiles, what's bite who's biting, you know, how many auditions are you getting?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_04: And then you kind of have to just figure out and be cognizant of am I getting more leads with this look or am I getting without and seeing what's working.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I would suggest people to like watch commercials, watch the videos again, like what you were saying before, who's working and what do they look like?
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_04: And how can you emulate that a little bit?
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, she has my body type, or you know, they have long hair or they have short hair or whatever it might be.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I think you have to see kind of what would work for you and what works your skill set and your specific body image, because it's gonna be different for everybody, and it's not necessarily gonna work because curly hair might work for you, but maybe um curly hair doesn't work for Jane Doe because she can't do 17 turns like you can, and she doesn't have that look.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_04: So it's different.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody comes with their own unique skill set and background.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, I mean, I've have been told, I mean, I have red hair.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: It is sadly somebody told me it was brown the other day and I was offended.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I have been told multiple times over the years, I had have been asked if I would dye my hair, the answer is no.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have been asked if I would cut my hair like in a pixie, the answer is no.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have to also be authentic to what you're willing to do because you at the end of the day are still a person.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're a dancer, yes, you're branding yourself.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: But my answer was always no.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: I like my hair.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: My hair is mine.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not changing it for you.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_00: You can put me in a wig.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that takes you out of a job.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that takes you out of the running and you have to be okay with that.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, there's plenty of people out there who are just so happy to dye their hair, lose weight, you know, get a fake tan, like do whatever you need to do, do you.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: As long as it's authentic to what you believe and like you have your uh values that you stay true to, because that's also something that you people can see a mile away.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you are just doing something to be fake or to put it on to, well, maybe this will get me a job, but you don't really live the truth of whatever the thing you uh you did.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can see that a mile away, and I'm not interested.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm interested in you as a human being first.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also just calling it what it is, if you're this industry is saturated with so many people, the more people that you can have in your corner vouching for you is only gonna help you and your brands.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_01: Step one, look for a representation.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Get an agent, someone who knows what is happening, they're getting hundreds of breakdowns a day.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be the person that is submitting you because they're like, oh, you can do this job, you can do this, X, Y, Z.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is perfect for Sally, whatever it may be, but find representation and look for that agent that is going to support you and your brand and know what you stand for, but also what you're willing to not do.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you don't want to cut your hair, my agent, I loved her, her name's Lucille DeCampley, she was fantastic.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: She was like a grandma, where if something was like weird, she's like, I'm actually pulling you from this audition because XYZ happened and I don't want my clients working with them.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, if you are excited for this, so sorry, but like out of the benefit of you, you're not going on this.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you need to find those people that are in your corner that are actually like vouching for you, but also are willing to like go to bat for you.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can't get into the audition for Hamilton, but like maybe your headshot doesn't look, you know, like your new haircut, whatever it may be, someone can then be like, hey, no, you need to see this person.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm telling you, don't base it off, you know, words on a resume or a picture.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: But like once you get them in the room, you're going to be obsessed with them.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: So like having someone in your corner that can really push you and your brand to get in front of the correct people is only gonna help you at the end of the day.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the industry is saturated, everything is now digital, everything is virtual auditions.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: How you can put your best business card forward digitally, but also have someone in your corner to vouch for you is only gonna help.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_04: I was gonna add to it that the agent or manager, whoever it is, can also give you the best advice on what that look should be, but also finding coaches or mentors now who have been there or are a few steps ahead or have had a career and they've hung up their point shoes and they're they're offering their advice and their expertise, they can give you that advice to tell you what might look best with you.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_04: I will be brutally honest with people and be like, no, you need to, you should really, if they're open to it, right and it's in alignment with who they are, you know, you should dye your hair.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_04: I worked with seniors a ton at um Amda College over here in LA a a few years ago.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I'd be like, Well, you know, there's agents coming to the show, they're coming to find you.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_04: And she's like, I don't know what to do with my hair.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if I should go a little lighter or a little darker.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, well, look at the rest of the cast.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_04: How are you gonna stand out compared to them?
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_04: So maybe you can use that to your advantage and be like, well, maybe I could go a little more red because I'm and then I'll pop as the only redhead on stage.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_04: And then that kind of gives the people in the audience, whether it's agents or managers or producers, choreographers, and they can then start to associate you with those attributes that you are showing them.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_05: It's great advice.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_05: I can't tell you how many times I see dancers that are exceptional.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_05: And again, there are many, many, many times that the talent will override the look.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_05: Like you could be the most like plain Jane looking person.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_05: You didn't put your makeup on today, whatever.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_05: And if you come in slay and just blow everyone's mind and you're the right fit for that job, you might still get that job.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_05: Like, at you know, branding is important and knowing your look and knowing your style and your vibe is very important.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_05: But there are many people that work without having to do that.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_05: And they, and like, good for them, but that's not really everyone.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_05: So I think it is important to like try to find that for you, for, for you as an individual.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_05: But there are there are a lot of dancers, and especially like dancers newly breaking into the industry that I know that they haven't figured out their look yet and and and where they they want to live and what's going to be work for working for them.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_05: And like you said, it's experimentation, it's trial and error, it's seeing what what works and what doesn't.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_05: But how are we ever going to figure that out without just like overanalyzing our f on our own in our own head without any feedback?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_05: Like now there are those resources like a mentoring opportunity, or like, you know, if you need to get like pay to have a mentor with a service, or reach out to someone that you look up to that might be willing to take you under their wing and guide you through this industry.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_05: Who's done it?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_05: Who's been there?
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_05: Because I know I'm always happy to help guide uh dancers who are up and coming, but there have been so many dancers where I'm like, oh, we gotta figure out your look.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_05: Like, like I'm I'm so I'm I'm sad about it.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_05: I want, I want to help you.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_05: And again, they didn't come to me.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_05: I'm just thinking this internally because I'm like, you're so talented and you're you're like, you could have the most successful career, but we gotta like, we gotta find the look because this ain't it, and we gotta figure it out, and you gotta make sure you know how to brand yourself properly.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_05: If you're never being taught how to, right?
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_05: It's like not a course that we take in dance school.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like you graduate, you graduate from college, and they're like, good luck, you have a degree.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_05: And like no one told you what to wear to an audition, or you know, how what color your hair you should have today, or should I be straight hair at this audition or wear it curly?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, it's just stuff like that that is trial and error.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_05: But like having someone to ask those questions, like, what do you think about this?
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_05: Even like a roommate or a friend that you're living with, like, you know, give each other feedback, be like, girl, that that outfit, that is it.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_05: You look fantastic.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_05: You're gonna, you're gonna feel confident you're gonna slay the audition because of that.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_05: Or, oh my gosh, girl, I don't know about that.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think that's the right look for this.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_05: You know?
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_05: You like you just need to say exactly.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's also away from like the look and you know, what you're putting on social media, it's I think kind of go back to what I was saying before of like how you're also using it.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you following steps in BDC?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Who are the new teachers that are teaching there?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason that Steps is hiring this person to teach their new jazz class.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's a reason that this person is subbing a BDC class.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: Get into those new up-and-coming classes, make friends with those people because at the end of the day, once you form those friendships, you have that relationship where someone could be like, hey, I actually have this one person that I booked for this job, can't they got hurt?
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: I can now go into my Rolodex of like, oh, I know Courtney Ortiz.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my God, she'd be perfect for this.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: I send you a DM on your Instagram.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, do you want to do this gig with me?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: I have this show that I need to fill a spot, a track in.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: Staying in staying in touch with the new up and coming choreographers, producers, whoever it may be, and staying on their radar, but like take their class, study what they're doing, follow them on Instagram, see what they're posting an audition.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like Josh Asor, Josh Asor is great at this because he posts all of his classes, but also has like an entertainment casting thing that he does on the side where he's booking these dancers for like New York Fashion Week.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like you need to pay attention to who's working, who's teaching at these like big studios, and use that as a roadmap to guide what classes you're taking, who you're engaging with, but also who you're befriending.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's yes, it's a posting game, but it's also like the inner workings of like who are you following, who are you befriending, and how are you using it to your advantage.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Not saying you're using people for advantage, but taking, you know, making friends.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it's about.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's about connecting and engaging.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's the word, networking.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_05: I want to just chime in and talk about the whole like hair dyeing thing really quick because I was one of those dancers that uh had to have my hair dyed multiple times and obvious and obviously was okay with it.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_05: But like I love what you said, Leslie, about like knowing what your limit is as a dancer, because there are so many times that like we will like as dancers, all we want is a job.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_05: You're gonna go to so many auditions, you're gonna get cut.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_05: And when you get this close to a job that then gives you some type of like deal breaker where it's ridiculous deal breaker, like hair dye.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: Which, like, this was the very first time this happened to me.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: I graduated from college in May.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: In June, I sent out on DVD five submissions of my dance reel in 2007, which is why it was on a DVD, to five different organizations, one of which was a theater in Branson.
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_00: Branson at the time was a very big uh, you know, sort of there was a lot of jobs in Branson for dancers, especially short dancers, because they have a lot of magic shows.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: So short dancers are still in need, you know, for that kind of production.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: So a theater in Branson was like, oh, we loved your reel.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to actually have you come out for an in-person audition.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I I flew to Branson from Atlanta for an in-person audition at the theater alone.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: I had to do a dance, had to do a solo, singing.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: Oh god.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: A solo.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was very, it was actually very strange.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so I did my solo on the stage, I sang my song on the stage uh for the producers and the director and everybody.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they were like, Oh yeah, we love you.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: They took me to tour of the of the place.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: They did costume fittings.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_00: As we were walking up the stairs, they were about like they were going to let me leave.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and as we're walking up the stairs, I go to the parking lot and they said, Oh, just one small thing.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna need to dye your hair blonde.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Oh, oh no.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, are you you you sure you can't put me in a wig?
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, No, we have to dye your hair blonde.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I am not comfortable with that.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: Are you should I'll pay for the wig?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I tried to negotiate every other option besides dyeing my hair blonde.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_00: And they said, Okay, well, we'll think about it.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then I never heard from them again.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I can only think that that was the only reason they did not want to hire me was because I wouldn't dye my hair blonde.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then, of course, literally that afternoon, I got a phone call from Royal Caribbean on the way to the Branson airport that was that was insane.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, in in which Royal Caribbean said, We'd love to offer you a job, and then was like, here's all your wigs.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, like it was fine, you know.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, one door closes, but it it's just shocking to me that in, you know, even in 2007, there were there's there's jobs that are gonna be a a deal breaker with something ridiculous like a hair dye.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_05: Even like you know, especially for female dancers, and I'm sure male dancers can feel the same.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_05: Like male dancers have like always are asked to be shirtless and things like that.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_05: Like, what if you're not comfortable?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_05: Same with females.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, we're getting a little like mature in this discussion, but like as a professional, there's a lot of times where they might be like, Are you comfortable being topless?
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_05: Are you comfortable being in a thong?
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_05: And there's a lot of people that are like, sure, no problem, whatever.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_05: And then there's a lot of people who are like, absolutely not.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I don't want to expose myself like that.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_05: And you have to know what your limit is, and you have to know, and you have to be okay with the fact that it might limit you for opportunity, and that is okay.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_05: You don't want to just sell yourself, you know, sell your soul when you're gonna look back and be like, why did I do that?
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: Quality over quantity.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_05: Absolutely.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_05: But that's definitely the hardest thing to navigate, I think.
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_05: And that I think that branding comes into play.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_05: You know, it's like a little bit of a casting branding uh discussion when we talk about this.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_05: But like I have I have similar stories of the the hair dye.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_05: I've had my I was actually I Oh yeah, your hair's been dyed quite a bit.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_05: I've talked about it uh actually on another podcast, uh, not ours, a different one, just talking about different jobs that I've done.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_05: I almost didn't book the Fossy Verdon job that I did where I portrayed a child, a male child, a 13-year-old boy, because they thought I had too much hair to fit in the wig, which is bizarre.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_05: And then when I did West Side Story, they had to dye my hair platinum blonde with my curls, but I was a blonde jet girl because I looked too Hispanic to be a jet girl, and that's how it was cast.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_05: Even when I did aluminum show, which was before West Side Story, I had my hair dyed jet black, and then I had my hair dyed like pretty bright red, like fire engine red.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_05: And my hair was like falling out because I dyed my hair like a thousand times just to get a job, you know, and like I look back at it and it's like, cool, I did the job, but like that was a deal breaker for the job.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_05: And, you know, and like kind of like what just Justine was saying, like there are, they already have the blonde, they already have the brunette, they already have the mousy, the mousy redhead or whatever.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_05: And then they're like, oh, well, we need somebody that has black hair.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_05: You're a great dancer, but you don't fit the vision of what we're looking for.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_05: So we need to create that.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_05: You're like, really?
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_05: I gotta do this.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_05: And like, as long as you're okay with it as a dancer, you go for it.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_05: But no, like I love that like this discussion's been centered around like authenticity and like knowing who you are and and what types of jobs you wanna, you know, be considered for.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_05: And that all ties into how you brand yourself in this industry.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: And on that note, I think there's also an important factor of like coming from like my PR brain, of like staying in line with what is trending in the news.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's this big scandal that's happening with ex-producer on ex Broadway show, maybe you don't audition for those shows because that's gonna put you into this bucket of like, or you're you're uh auditioning for like the do not work list on acquit uh on equity.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: That is gonna also put you into this box of like, oh God, like is this person just looking for a job to get a job?
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it like, do you actually support this person?
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that then takes the whole narrative and flips it on its head of like, yeah, are you gonna audition and work for these people who are just awful humans?
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: So staying up to date on current events, what's happening, what shows are casting, like what are the scandals of Broadway today?
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: But making an educated dancer is the best dancer, yeah.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the Yes, exactly.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and just making sure that you're putting yourself in the presence of people that are doing good work, smart work, safe work, and not work that is going to ultimately backfire.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, that makes me think of like another podcast episode that we need to have on just like kind of that chat on like how to know when the job is right, I guess.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_05: Like, because I'm I well, as you were saying that, I was immediately Immediately thinking of this is a little political, but I was immediately thinking of uh the Radio City Rockettes and how they a lot of them were required to uh dance and do an opening performance for Trump.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_05: Like inauguration.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_05: And there were a lot of a lot of Roquettes that said no because they didn't want to be that's their that's not their political view and they didn't want to be associated even though that was their job and their job was saying you have to do this, but they were they just put their foot down and said no.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_05: And the other thing I'm thinking of is like when Beyonce would hire dancers for free.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_05: And people would say yes because it's Beyonce, but like a lot of people are like, I'm not doing that.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not doing that.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_05: I'm not going to work for free when Beyonce, you can pay me.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_05: You have enough money to pay me.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_05: You know, so it's that that's not really part of branding.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's knowing who you are and your your worth.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe that's what the episode should be, like knowing your worth in the industry.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: But in turn, that I'm gonna challenge you, Courtney, because that is branding.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know exactly who you are.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: That is your brand.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: Your brand is who you are and what you represent.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not compromising.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: You're staying true to your brand because you're saying, no, this isn't for me.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not doing that.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't mean to put you on the spot and be like, I'm challenging you, but that's your brand.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's your point of view.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to do it, then great.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's your brand.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to do anything you don't want to.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, it just, you know, we've had a couple, we talk about social media, you know, fairly often on the podcast.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: And because it's so much a part of what we are and what we do now as dancers and humans, you know, you also have to be careful, like you said, Sam, who you're following, who you're liking, what you're liking.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: People can track that.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: I am one of those people.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_00: I will look it up.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: You just messaged me the other day, be like, wait, do you know this person?
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: For I did.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: But because it's yeah, there's so many, there's so many ways that you know, no, it's not exactly truly on the nose branding, but it's associations because the dance world is small and it is a part of your brand.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you're working for somebody whose values are compromised or whose ethics don't make any sense and other people see that you're associated, even even if you dislike something.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, we are people first, but also that's why like I have a personal Instagram and I have a dancer Instagram.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, we didn't even touch on that.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how much of your personal life do you want to share on your branded Instagram page or your branded TikTok page?
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_00: How much of it can you keep to yourself and like keep in your inner circle?
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, not that there's gonna be anything questionable there, but like, you know, it it just depends on again what your values are.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that just even goes, and again, not to be like polarizing here, but the Laura Osnis scandal that happened, and now we know where that landed us.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_01: But like she's now associated with this one group of people.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't know what I'm talking about, Google Laura Osnes, it'll come up.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, that now unfortunately is part of her brand.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: And well, she I don't want to say she won't, but like getting jobs in New York City is gonna be very difficult when you're now put into that bucket.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to think of everything that you're putting into the world and on social media and whatever your whatever your brand is, you have to think of it as like a 360-degree approach.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: You have to think about it from every single angle.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_01: If I post this meme on my story, is someone gonna see it and then be like, oh, that's weird.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why are you posting that?
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna, people are automatically gonna form opinions and all branding is centered around opinion.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it is.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you need to just be super mindful, whether you're posting a picture, a meme, reposting someone else's picture, whatever it is.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: You just need to make sure that anything and everything that you're posting is in line with what you're what you're posting.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: And like, if you want your grand, like I always say, like, if you're gonna post something, do you feel comfortable with grandma seeing it?
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_01: Can grandma see this post?
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_01: If grandma's confused and she's stressed and she's like, What is happening?
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe don't post it.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_01: But just take take a second thought um before you post something and just always make sure that it's in line with what your what your brand is.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_04: The big thing to remember is that your brand is you.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_04: Authentically, you, unapologetically, you, how you show up, and what you choose to show to people.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't think it has to be really manufactured.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think you have to just show the bits and parts of you, know that it doesn't have to be everything.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_04: It doesn't have to be the end-all be all of who you are, and I think that's where the pressure comes in for a lot of people.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_04: But I think if you can just show those bits and pieces of you that you're willing and comfortable to share, then I think people will naturally gravitate towards that because they'll feel the realness.
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode all about how to brand yourself as a dancer.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_05: Be sure to follow our guests on social media.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_05: You can find Sam at Sam Quinn and Justine at Justine Mentor.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_05: Also, don't forget to check out Justine's coaching platform, Mentor Management, for career and industry guidance for aspiring and professional dancers.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_05: Tune in to her podcast, Dance Careers Unfiltered, on your favorite podcast platform.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And if you want more exclusive episodes, support our podcast by joining our Platinum Premium membership for only$5 a month.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Subscribers receive free Making the Impact stickers, shout-outs live on the air, add-free listening, and exclusive access to our QI episodes for members only.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Join now at Impact Danceadjudicators.com/slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_05: Are you looking for even more personalized, in-depth feedback from your standard judges' critiques that you've been receiving at competition this season?
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_05: Want to really know how to take your dance to the next level?
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_05: Then check out our service, IDA's online judges critiques, where you will receive up to 10 to 15 minutes of post-critique additional feedback.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_05: You can even request a judge that specializes in your submitted dance genre, and they will go back through your routine from beginning to end and pause the video to elaborate even more on those specific corrections.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_05: Send us your video from an in-studio rehearsal or your latest competition stage performance, and let our judges help you prep before your next event.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_05: Critiques start at only$35 on our website.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_05: Submit your dance now at Impact Danceadjudicators.com slash online critiques.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned for our upcoming episodes, including our next spotlight feature with Derek Mitchell, appropriateness at competition, and how to avoid burnout.