Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 38, Season 1: The Most Painful Relationship Dynamic

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Episode 38, Season 1: The Most Painful Relationship Dynamic · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Doc podcast. I am your co
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: host Rana Butcher here with our host, doctor Sarah Hensley,
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the owner and CEO of the Dating Decoder, soon.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: To be the Love Doc Relationship coaching Services. We're rebranding.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: The company is the same, just the name is different.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's exciting, very exciting. And with that rebranding, just
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: know that lots of new exciting things are coming down
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the pipeline for all of doctor Hensley's followers and of
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: course all of our listeners here on the podcast. And
• 0:39
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  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you Cozy Earth. Okay, Episode thirty eight, Dang,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: I know it's a lot of episodes we've been blown.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: It'll be a year in May that we've been doing this. Well,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: it's our favorite thing to you guys. Just so y'all
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: know we love doing the podcast we do. It's so fun.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: It's like it's almost like a counseling session for me.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: I get to come here and like learn things and
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: you know, talk about some of my own issues and
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: it's really cool. It's been really cathartic for me, so
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much.
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Of course.
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  Speaker 1: But today we're going to talk about the most painful
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: relationship dynamics.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, the most painful dynamic, with the exception of being
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  Speaker 2: in a relationship with a narcissist that is incredibly painful
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: or someone with a personality disorder. Okay, other than that,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: when we're talking just about attachment dynamics, the fearful avoidant
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  Speaker 2: with a dismissive avoidant is absolutely the most painful.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll start from the beginning. Yes, and doctor
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  Speaker 1: Hansley's going to break it down for you all one.
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  Speaker 3: What does it look like?
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  Speaker 2: Yes, well, I definitely suggest that listeners go back and
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  Speaker 2: listen to the episodes where I describe the fearful avoidant
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  Speaker 2: and the episode where I describe the dismissive avoidant, because
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: this is probably going to make more sense to you,
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  Speaker 2: and some of the information will overlap just so that
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  Speaker 2: I can talk about the dynamic, but that will really
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: prep you for this episode. So if you're a new listener,
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  Speaker 2: you might want to go back and listen to those
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: episodes and then this one will make a lot more sense.
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  Speaker 2: But a fearful avoidant is someone who has an attachment
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  Speaker 2: style that was born out of childhood trauma, and this
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  Speaker 2: trauma essentially created a trust break between the child and
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  Speaker 2: one or more of their parents. And the way that
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  Speaker 2: trust break gets imprinted into the subconscious is essentially this
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  Speaker 2: idea that, well, if my parents couldn't be trusted, then
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: no one else would ever be able to be trusted. Right,
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  Speaker 2: Because our parents are who who gives us the foundational
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: information about what it means to be close to someone,
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  Speaker 2: and that gets deeply imprinted into the subconscious. That's the
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: basis of attachment theory, because then we can take it
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: with us into adulthood and it plays out in our
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  Speaker 2: own romantic relationships. Right, because the subconscious is very vulnerable
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  Speaker 2: during childhood and adolescence to being imprinted with messages about
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  Speaker 2: what it means to be you and what it means
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  Speaker 2: to be close to someone. So the fearful avoidant has
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  Speaker 2: a huge wound of betrayal. They don't know that they
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  Speaker 2: have this right, This is not conscious where they're going
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  Speaker 2: into relationships like, oh, I think everybody's going to betray me.
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  Speaker 1: How to understand the subconscious? There's actually another episode, there
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  Speaker 1: is another episode on that well, the unveiling of the
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  Speaker 1: subconscious that you should also go back on.
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  Speaker 2: Right, which all the episodes, Yes, they kind of. They
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  Speaker 2: do build off of each other, and so the fearful
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  Speaker 2: avoidant has a number of characteristics and traits. They do
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  Speaker 2: tend to have what we call high trait variability because
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  Speaker 2: they have both an anxious side to their attachment and
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  Speaker 2: an avoidance side, So they have the entire attachment spectrum.
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  Speaker 2: I call it the grasping it. Straw's attachment used to
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  Speaker 2: be called disorganized, and that was a really good term.
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  Speaker 2: I don't like that they kind of did away with
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  Speaker 2: the term because it describes their pattern of relation, which
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  Speaker 2: is disorganized. Right. Sometimes they're anxious and they want connection.
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  Speaker 2: Other times they're avoidant and they're pushing people away and isolating,
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  Speaker 2: and you never know what they're going to do. They're
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  Speaker 2: very unpredictable, unlike the other two insecure styles, which are
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: in fact very predictable. So we have the deepest need
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  Speaker 2: of the fearful avoidant is to be seen, heard, and understood.
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  Speaker 2: Fearful avoidance are very hypervigilant, because trauma will make you hypervigilant.
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  Speaker 2: So that you can stay safe, you have to be
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  Speaker 2: very tuned into other people's subtle cues about their behavior, right,
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  Speaker 2: and so fearful avoidance are always sort of looking around
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  Speaker 2: and taking in micro expressions and subtle details about people's behavior,
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  Speaker 2: and that gives them very quick assumptions around whether or
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  Speaker 2: not they're going to be hurt or whether they can
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  Speaker 2: trust that person. And they also tend to have a
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  Speaker 2: very negative bias where they really focus on the negative
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  Speaker 2: aspects of their relationship. Again, that's born from trauma. If
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  Speaker 2: you focus on the negative, that can keep you safer
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  Speaker 2: then focusing on the positive. However, we know that you
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  Speaker 2: need to have a balanced view of your relationship, right,
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  Speaker 2: The positive things in your relationship matter, not just the
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  Speaker 2: negative things. But fearful avoidance get laser focused on the
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  Speaker 2: negative aspects of their partner and negative aspects of their relationship,
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  Speaker 2: bringing up lots of problems. The fearful avoidant is a
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  Speaker 2: very deep feeler. They are very complex people, very dynamic people.
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  Speaker 2: It doesn't mean they'll always express those big emotions. A
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  Speaker 2: lot of them. When they're in their avoidant space shut
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  Speaker 2: down and they don't express anything. They're either holding it
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  Speaker 2: in in a flea response, or they are dissociating from
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  Speaker 2: it in a freeze response. So it doesn't mean that
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  Speaker 2: they're always going to express their feelings, but they do
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  Speaker 2: feel their feelings very deeply, okay, and they understand their
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  Speaker 2: feel and they understand other people. They're very, very tuned
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  Speaker 2: into others high emotional like Q yeah, very high, you know,
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  Speaker 2: eq yeah, And so they do things like bring up
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  Speaker 2: a lot of conflict. They criticize their partner a lot,
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  Speaker 2: they complain a lot because again they're heavily focused on
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  Speaker 2: the negative and they're hypervigilant, so they catch all the negative, right,
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  Speaker 2: and they can be highly emotionally reactive. For some more
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  Speaker 2: avoidant fearfuls, it takes them a lot. They're like holding
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  Speaker 2: it in, holding it, holding it in, and then they
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  Speaker 2: explode like the top busting off of a pressure cooker.
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  Speaker 2: Or the more anxious fearfuls will fight, fight, fight, fight, fight,
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  Speaker 2: and then run out of steam, feeling unseen, not heard,
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  Speaker 2: not understood, and then they back away and freeze or
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  Speaker 2: dissociate and push their partner away. So you can definitely
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  Speaker 2: see that there are more anxious and avoidant sides, right.
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  Speaker 2: It's very and it's very person dependent on whether they
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  Speaker 2: will act more avoidant than anxious or more anxious than avoidant.
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  Speaker 2: So some people essentially lean more anxious, some people lean
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  Speaker 2: more avoidant, and they.
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  Speaker 3: Can spend.
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  Speaker 1: Either or in one of those landscapes per se, like
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  Speaker 1: for years.
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  Speaker 2: For years. Yeah. One of the things that influences which
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  Speaker 2: side of the spectrum they kind of lean to is
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  Speaker 2: the spectrum of their partner. So they tend to lean
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  Speaker 2: opposite of their partner, which makes relationships so challenging for
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  Speaker 2: them because if their partner is leaning in and trying
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  Speaker 2: to get close, they will run away. If their partner
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  Speaker 2: leans out and is creating distance, they will activate and
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  Speaker 2: try to connect. So essentially they're never on the same
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  Speaker 2: page as their partner, right, they're always just sabotaging their
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  Speaker 2: relationship by doing that. Well, then they get into a
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  Speaker 2: relationship with the dismissive avoidant. So you have to think
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  Speaker 2: about the fearful as being very deep, very complex people
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  Speaker 2: who like to externalize to process.
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  Speaker 1: Like if they're not feeling and they're dying, Like, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: they're those type of peoples, Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Like everything is a big deal. They're the drama creators.
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  Speaker 2: I hate to say it, sorry, but they're tons of drama. Right,
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  Speaker 2: they have to have drama to function, and they don't know.
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  Speaker 2: They don't know, fearful of what its, do not know
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  Speaker 2: that they're drama creators. They feel like all of their
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  Speaker 2: hurts and complaints are very valid deep right. Their pain
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  Speaker 2: is just that deep, and it's very easily triggered too. Write.
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  Speaker 2: They want someone to almost like be inside of their
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  Speaker 2: head and guess every one of their needs and just
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  Speaker 2: meet every one of them needs without them having to
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  Speaker 2: ask for that, because to them, it's like, well, if
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I have to ask you for something, then it doesn't count.
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  Speaker 2: So they almost are dysfunctional at the level of expecting
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  Speaker 2: mind reading, okay, very hyper attuned to everybody else around them. Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Let's contrast that with the dismissive avoid which could not
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: be more opposite. The dismissive avoidant wants hyper independence. They
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: always want to create space. They absolutely hate conflict and drama.
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  Speaker 2: They will do anything in the world to avoid conflict
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  Speaker 2: and drama. They will run away from it every single time.
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  Speaker 2: They are very surface level people. They are extremely private people.
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  Speaker 2: They generally have used emotional suppression, so they are not
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  Speaker 2: deep feelers logic. They do not understand their own emotions.
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  Speaker 2: They actively suppress them. Therefore, the emotions of others completely
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  Speaker 2: disregulate them, completely overwhelm them, seem foreign to them. They
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  Speaker 2: are not in the business of seeing, hearing, and understanding people.
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  Speaker 2: In fact, for the dismissive avoidant, if they one don't
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  Speaker 2: understand why someone is hurt, or two don't agree that
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: someone should be hurt, they absolutely will not address the conflict. Okay,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: They'll be like, you don't have a point, right, so
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  Speaker 2: I'm not even gonna deal with this, right, like this,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: whatever you're upset about that doesn't make sense to me,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: so I'm not even gonna deal with it.
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  Speaker 3: It's a mood point.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: It's a call's opinion, right exactly, a mood point. Yes,
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: you know that's a Joey that's a Joey Triviani line
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: for sure. Oh I love that show anyhow. So the
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  Speaker 2: dismissive avoidant is extremely private. They don't want to be
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: deeply seen. In fact, they want you to see them
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: at arm's length. They want to give the least amount
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  Speaker 2: of effort humanly possible. They don't know that they're like that.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: In their mind, they're giving fine effort, they're doing great,
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: but they're not. They're way too distant. They very much
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: fear closeness. That is something they do share with the
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  Speaker 2: dismissive or with the fearful. But the fearful fears it
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: because they fear being hurt. The dismiss it fears it
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: because they fear it's going to take away their independence
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  Speaker 2: on autonomy and overwhelm them. They also have fears that
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: they just can't meet people's expectations and relationships. Right, So,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: we have someone who struggles to meet someone's expectations even
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: when they are blatantly obvious, paired with someone who expects
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: their partner to read their mind. We have someone who
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: feels extremely deeply and who wants to externalize and talk
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: about those deep feelings, paired with someone who feels practically
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: nothing and gets overwhelmed by even the mere mention or
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: tone of emotion inside of a relationship. Okay, you can
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: sense the problems, right, You can sense where this is
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: going to go poorly. We have someone who gets very
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: emotionally reactive during conflict, with someone who would essentially rather
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: die than be exposed to heightened emotions. Where could the
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: possibly where possibly, I should say, could this go wrong?
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: Pretty much everywhere?
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: I know that this is the dynamic that you see
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: a lot in your practice.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: It's the most common relationship dynamic that I see.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: So my first question, I think is just to give
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: people hope do and have you seen it work.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: All the time?
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: See?
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: But they have to make the changes, right, Yeah, it's
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: a commitment. It's a commitment, and I would say for
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: this dynamic, you have less success if only one partner
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: wants to make a change, and dismissive avoidance are wholly
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: resistant to changing. In fact, when you tell them you
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: need to change, they feel attacked, criticized, overwhelmed, and it
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: makes them back away even more because they have a
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: defectiveness wound and defectiveness wounds are very much activated by criticism.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: Right, So you have one partner, the fearful, who is
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: very critical and it's in their nature to be very critical,
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: to focus on the negative. And we have somebody who's
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: biggest need in the relationship, the dismissive avoidance for peace
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: and harmony. That's their deepest need.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: Right, one person has the deepest need for peace and harmony.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: The next one has the deepest need to be herd
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: and understood.
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  Speaker 3: Right, But you've seen it work.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: I have when when each partner can understand the other's
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: needs yes, and then actively try to meet them yes.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: And that where the others' needs inherently disrupt their nervous system.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: So the fearful avoidance nervous system is very, very dysregulated
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: by the space that the dismissive avoidance needs to process
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: to understand. And generally, dismissive avoidance creates space, and they
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: don't do much of that processing. They don't know how
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: to process their own emotions or to feel their own feelings,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: so they usually take space, and then in that space
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: they are doing nothing productive. They're just suppressing and associating.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: And then their goal is to come back when they
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: feel like it can be sort of swept under the
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: rub or enough time has passed where it can just
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: blow over and not have to be addressed. The fearful
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: is like, oh heck, no, yeah, we have to address
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: every while.
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  Speaker 3: They've been ruminating, the entire time.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: They've been ruminating in enormous amounts of emotional pain, the
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: entire time that the dismissive avoidant is taking space.
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: Which is building enormous amounts of resentment.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, and anxiety and anger and all of the deep
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: things that the FA feels.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: And lots of things that disrupt the nervous system.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: So there's this perpetual conflict cycle. The FA of course
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: finds a problem, because that's what they do, is find problems, right,
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Not that some problems don't exist and aren't legitimate. Right.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Their criticisms may be valid, but they tend to over criticize.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: They tend to find a negative if they can find one.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Let's just say that they present this to the DA
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: in a way, way, way, critical way. The criticism immediately
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  Speaker 2: activates the defectiveness wound of the dismissive avoidant, and they
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: will get defensive and shut down, yeah, leaving the fearful
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: avoidant feeling not seen, not heard, and not understood, which
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: is their deepest need because that's what they need to feel,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: trust right. And so then the dismissive avoidant goes away,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: shuts down, creates the space the FA freaks out. Then
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: the FA chases them down again and tries again, only
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: for the same thing to happen. Now, eventually the fearful
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: avoidant might shut down themselves and give up because they
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: go into their avoidant side when they feel hopeless, like
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: it doesn't matter what I say or do, my partner's
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: just not going to get me right. They're not going
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: to meet my needs. And the thing that they're usually
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: upset over is the fact that the DA takes too
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: much space, doesn't prioritize them, isn't vulnerable with them, doesn't
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: share the depth of their inner world with them, which
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: is how they feel like they can trust someone. Right.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: We don't just trust somebody we meet off the street
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: or that we know on a surface level. We trust
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: someone that we know deeply. And that's what the fearful
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: avoidant needs. They want to know their partner deeply. But
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the dismissive avoidant is like, oh my gosh, no, I
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: don't want you to know me deeply. I want those
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: pieces of me to stay private. You only are allowed
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: to know the surface level things about me, right, And
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: so the dismissive avoidance is so triggered by their criticism
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: they experience intense shame and defectiveness, which immediately their subconscious goes, nope,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: we can't cope with that. We have to suppress. So
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: they push it away and they run away from their partner,
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: and then the fearful will chase and demand and beg
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: and plead, and it just is this perpetual cycle.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: I know that, like in the early phases of dating,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: with this dynamic that you know, it can be very
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: confusing obviously for the fa but for the da it,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: I think it's what makes them disappear, right, Like they'll
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: sometimes ghost or just no explanation.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just poof gone.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Yes. So one of the really tricky things about the
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: dismissive avoidant is that in the beginning stages of relationships
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: they can really go all in. They tend to be
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: a little bit more transparent than just truly vulnerable, Like
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: vulnerability is talking about like your deepest fears, your deepest needs.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: They're more transparent like I've been through this, or I've
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: been through that. They're not actually really talking about how
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: they feel about it or how they cope with it. Right,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: that's vulnerability versus transparency, But the transparency feels close for
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: the fearful avoidant. In the beginning of relationships, all insecure
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: attachments are attracted to their shadows, and our shadows are
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: our suppressed traits. They are the traits that we don't
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: believe we should share with the world. There are traits
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: that we have developed shame around having Okay, So the
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: dismissive avoidant was shamed early on and dismissed for their
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: emotional experiences. So for the dismissive avoidant, they carry shame
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: around expressing emotion and receiving emotion. It feels very very weak, pathetic, shameful, itchy, right,
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: But then they meet this partner who for them has
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: not yet triggered their wounds around closeness, commitment, losing their independence.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Those are big triggers for them as well. So they
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: do really well at the beginning because in the beginning
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: the partners still quote low stakes. It's not until they're
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: committed that the partner becomes high stakes. Okay, So when
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: the partner is still low stakes, they will be more transparent,
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: and they will be more effortful, they will be more attentive,
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: they will prioritize their partner. But then, either after the
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: first conflict or when the relationship starts to take a
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: more serious turn, is when all of they're wounding around
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: losing their independence, being trapped, being stuck, having to be vulnerable,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: having to meet people's expectations start to kick in and
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: they start to deactivate or pull away. Okay, but in
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: the very beginning, they're very enamored by the emotional depth
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: and complexity and the empathy of the fearful to them,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: that's just like, those are the traits that I would
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: want to suppress, but I've been associating those things with
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: shame my entire life. Right, So they sort of live
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: vicariously through the FA experiencing vulnerability. Right. The FA's over
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: here being vulnerable. They're being transparent, which can feel kind
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: of like vulnerability if it's not true vulnerability. The FA
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: is an emotional roller coaster. They are absolutely just an
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: emotional rollercoaster on the inside. That's how they live their lives.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Their emotions are up and down. They have very high
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: highs and very high lows. The dismissive avoidance suppresses emotions,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: so they are their emotional bandwidth is very steady. They're
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: the opposite of an emotional rollercoaster. So the fearful avoidance
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: is very deeply attracted to the sti ability and consistency
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: of emotion from the dismissive avoidant. The dismissive avoidant is
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: cool as a cucumber man, right, which is the exact
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: opposite of the internal experience of the fearful avoidant. The
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: fearful avoidant has had like shame essentially associated with, you know,
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: withholding emotion or not being transparent or upfront. They're they're oversharers.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: They're they're overly honest. They feel like they owe people
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: like lots of lots of explanations and lots of details, right.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: They feel like they owe people this information about them,
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: right in order to build trust, because that's what they
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: need from others. So they're sort of like enamored with
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: the fact that the DA just kind of goes about
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: their life cool as a cucumber stoic. They don't overshare.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: They appear to have it.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: They appear to have a barry together, where the fearful
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: really has had a lot of falling apart in their lives,
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of rebuilding in their lives, a lot of
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: sort of crawling out of holes starting over, right, And
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: they see this dismissive avoidance that seems to have it
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: all together and has man they are the man with
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: the plan or the woman with the plan, right, they're
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: not overshareres and they're like, how do you go through
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: life just not thinking about other people's feelings all the time? Right,
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: I think there was actually, like I don't remember where.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Oh it was an episode of what's that show with
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Zoe da Chanel. Oh gosh, what's it called?
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Something about the girl the new girl.
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: Oh okay.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: And one of the guys says to Zoey Dachel, so
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: you just walk around caring about other people's feelings all night?
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: And she's like yes, and she's a total le fa
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: on that show. Yeah, And so the FA is looking
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: at the DA like you don't walk around considering everybody
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: else above yourself? Wow, Like I feel shame if I
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: prioritize myself over someone else. Right, So they're just so
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: enamored with the stability, the emotional control, the non over
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: sharing and the secret sy or the privacy of the DA.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: They feel like wow, like.
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: They're really mysterious.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: They're very mysterious and cool. Right, they don't word vomit.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: You know, they're trauma onto everybody all the time. But then,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: but then when the feel good chemicals wear off, and
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: when we're not anymore enamored by our shadow traits, we
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: start to crave connection that is like us, right, we
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: try to want to be loved in ways that feel
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: good to us, and the FA and DA just absolutely
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: completely missed the mark for each other. Yeah, different to
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: completely opposite attachment blueprints.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: So what do you suggest in the dating phase? So
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: if they're in the dating phase and they're going through this,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: I know you've said like run in the past.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: But say they're like, say they're like two years in Okay,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: So that's long term relationship.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: And they want they want to make it work, you know.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: And I guess this would apply to couples who've been
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: married to for sure years. You know. Tell our listeners
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: sort of the steps without giving away all the goods.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Of course I can't. You have to get keep a
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: little a little bit. I like to give as much
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: information as I can. But essentially, attachment healing, the basic
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: tools are the same for all attachment styles, but we
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: have to make nuanced ways to use the tools for
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: each attachment style. Okay, So let me give you one
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: really important tool, which is nervous system regulation. Both the
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: fearful and the dismissive have very disregulated nervous systems. The
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: dismissive is just going into a freeze which is suppressed
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: associate response, and the fearful is usually going into a
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: fight response, which is you know, irritation and anger frustration,
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: which is an activating response. So the fearful response tends
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: to be connection through fighting, whereas the dismissive avoidance nervous
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: system is disregularly and they want disconnection through isolation. But
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: at the root, it's still justsregulation. Whether you're in a
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: freeze response or a fight response, you're both your nervous
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: systems are not in a sense of felt safety. So
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: ultimately each person has to do the conditioning of their
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: nervous system. They have to use tools to condition their
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: nervous system to pair emotions with safety, and to pair
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: in difficult engagement with safety. It's okay to have difficult moments.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I'm still safe. It's okay that this didn't go well.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: I'm still safe in this conversation. So we really have
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: to tune in to the nervous system regulation piece for
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: both parties. But it looks different for the FA and
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: the DA. The FA, when I tell them where do
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: you feel this in your body? Withinzero point two seconds,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: they will give me five places in their body where
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: they feel their emotion. It's in my chest, it's in
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: my stomach, it's in my throat. I'd say my hands
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: are shaking, my face is hot. They have very strong
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: somatic sensations, which is the key to being able to
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: learn to regulate, is to being tuned into physiology as
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: well as challenging the stories around the physiology, which is
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: the cognitive piece of emotion. Das can sit there and
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: go I feel nothing. I feel absolutely nothing. I feel
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: it nowhere in my body. So you have to realize
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: that fight is a level one trauma response, which is
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: a sympathetic activation of the nervous system, whereas freezes level two.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: Freeze is essentially saying my emotions are so painful that
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: if I experience them, I will die. So I have
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: to dissociate. I have to disconnect the cord between myself
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: and my emotion. Right, So the dismissive of wind is like,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: what the heck do I do? I can't feel anything?
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: And what they have to do. If you look at
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Polyvagel theory and you look at the way Polyvagel theory
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: is actually mapped out when we go through these elevations
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: of dysregulation, it happens on a curve. So you have
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: to go through fight or flight light to get to freeze,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: and you can't get out of freeze unless you come
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: back down through fighter flight. So you can either roll
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: back down the hill or you can go out completely
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: over the hump. But either way you got to come
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: back down through fighter flight. So what dismissive avoidance have
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: to do is they have to really focus on one
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: bringing up the emotional stimulus in their mind. So focus
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: on that fight. What was said, right, what were their points?
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Bring it up and hold it in your mind. If
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: you have to look at pictures, if you have to
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: play music, whatever stimuli, yeah, whatever stimuli you need to
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: bring this into full conscious experience. You have to do.
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: The FA doesn't have to do that. It's already running
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: all over them, right, they've already ruminated over it for hours.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: Right, you've late in bed and night up all night.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. So the DA has to actively breathe. We
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: use diaphmatic breathing and certain specific types of diaphomatic breathing
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: to send safety signals to the nervous system which start
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: to bring them down the curve. So they actually have
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: to sit longer with the stimuli sending safety signals before
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: they will get an ounce of feeling within the body.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: And sometimes it takes numerous occasions of practice before the
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: DA can feel the slightest hint of emotion in their body.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: What are some of the reactions, because I'm curious, what
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: are some of the reactions you've seen when you've seen das.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Like start feeling complete in total shock, tears, tears and confusion.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: Totally news.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: That's also some relief, Yeah, because you have to realize
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: that emotion is energy in motion, That's what it is.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: And energy cannot be created nor destroyed. Those are the
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: laws of physics. We can only move it around, right,
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: And so you have to think about a DA has
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: had that energy in a locked box that is still
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: stealing from the body and the mind. So dismissive a
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: wouldn'ts are at much higher risk of heart attack and
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: stroke and autoimmunity and all sorts of stuff because the
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: energy is sitting there stealing from the immune system, stealing
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: from the heart, stealing energy from the brain, from the liver,
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: from the kidneys. Right, energy has to continue to be produced.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: We can't destroy it. So it's going to maintain itself somehow, right,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: It's going to stay live somehow. But when we process
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: it through, we can move it out. But that actually,
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: both the fearful and the dismissive do not know how
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: to process emotion. Most people don't in a way where
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: the brain can go, Okay, we've taken the lesson, we've
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: integrated that into our psyche, we've accepted it, and now
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: we can essentially that emotion will move out of the body.
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: Isn't that interesting? I think? So I'm beautiful, and so
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I've had dismissive avoidance, numerous dismissive avoidance come to me
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: and said, oh my gosh, I haven't cried in thirty years,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: and I had tears and it was so foreign to me.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: I didn't know what to do with it. And most
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: of them actually report they get scared. Yeah, and so
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: then and then they feel the suppression start to kick
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: back it and they feel that like really deep urge
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: to shove it down and pour into something else. So
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: what we have to do with the dismissives. So I
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: have to do exactly what Dana Dozzie said when she
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: was on here, which is micro dos your emotional experience.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: It's like, let's feel it for thirty seconds and then
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: it's okay to go back to compartmentalizing. But great job,
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: you felt it for thirty seconds, right, you showed your
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: brain you tolerated it for thirty seconds, and you sent
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: safety signals to the brain as you were feeling it.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: That's really, really, really key, and that's a piece that
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: so many people are missing, which is attaching neuroregulation and
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: safety signaling with emotional processing. I've said that before. So
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: they get freaked out, and that's why we have to
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: micro dose it, like okay, can you do it for
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: thirty seconds, and then next time can you do it
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: for forty five? And then maybe the next time you
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: can do it for a whole minute, and then maybe
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: we work up to even five minutes of feeling your
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: own emotions. For them, that might be plenty of time
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: of feeling, right. They're very slow emotional processors. Even when
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: they do feel it, they struggle to know what does
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: this mean. So the DA has like a broad overview
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: of emotion. It's like happy, sad, mad, that's their spectrum. Right,
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: They're like, I know I'm if I'm in one of
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: three phases of like happy sadder man. The fearful is
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: like I could be disappointed, rejected, and significant despondent, like
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: they could just go on, go on and on and
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: on of these very nitty gritty details of their emotional experiences.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: A dismissive, not so much. And what you have to
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: do when you really learn to cultivate a deep sense
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: of safety in the nervous system, that will stick around. Right.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: The goal is to change your baseline, and the goal
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: is to be able to bring yourself into safety at will.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: It's not always easy, but we can condition our brains
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: to sort of make safety our home base the state
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: in which we live most of the time. That's what
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: we're supposed to be doing. But for insecure attachments, they've
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: lived in these dysregulated states since children, since they were children.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: It's not something we're ever taught. Or is it something
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: that people are really prescribing.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: No, right, No, we're prescribing drugs. We're not prescribing how
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: to healthy emotional processing and nervous system regulation, which is
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: we really need to get this information out there because
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: it's life changing.
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: It is so life changing and homeopathic. Right, yeah, it's
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: no medication.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: There's no side effects, there's no side effects, right, only
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: joy and peace. Now, I will give the caveat that
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: if you've had significant trauma. There's a small percentage of
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: das that have had such significant trauma so early on
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: in childhood that they had to suppress and bringing up
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: that trauma could lead to some negative side effects because
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: they just don't have the processing skills. If that is,
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: you go get a good trauma therapist to do this
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: with the FA. They've been feeling their trauma since they
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: have the trauma. You know, they have maybe intermittently or
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: compartmentalizing it to survive. But again it's intermittent. The DA
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: can compartmentalize forever, on and on and on and on
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: and on. The FA has limited compartmentalization ability, meaning they
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: can compartmentalize until that box feels like it's so full
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: it just bursts open. Right, So they just don't have
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: this prolonged compartmentalization ability that the DA does have. So
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: they're very used to feeling their trauma, right, I suggest
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: they get a trauma therapist too.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: I think trauma therapy is a great adjunct. It fundamentally
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: does different things than coaching, will do different strategies, different
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: end goals. But you know, I would also just say
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: to the FA, we know you have had trauma, So
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: maybe go find a trauma therapist too that accepts insurance.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: You do. You have clients that you've seen maybe do
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: both right where they see a trauma therapist while getting
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: coaching from that.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and in fact, people with severe what we call
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: big T traumas, I definitely highly recommend it. I say,
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I would love to work with you. We can make
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: so much progress. But because the trauma that you've had,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I mean we're talking about like sexual abuse or severe
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: physical abuse, or you know, complete abandonment and living in
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: a foster home, like those types of things, those types
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: of big two traumas, just get support. Because I can't
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: sit next to you, I'm virtual, right, So go find
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: somebody that can sit next to you and monitor your
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: reactions and responses. But in terms of coaching, is so
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: if therapy is much more exploratory, it's much more handholding,
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: it's much more comforting and validating. Where coaching is like
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: here are your patterns, and here are the strategies, the
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: prescriptive direct strategies to change those patterns right, which does
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: include feeling your feelings right. But if you're a first
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: time feeler and you've had a lot of trauma, trauma,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: it might be really difficult, right, So I do give
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: that caveat that I can't come to you and sit
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: next to you. We're working over the computer, right, And
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not a therapist, I'm a coach. Do I understand
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of clinical skills, Yes, but I'm not
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: giving you those. I'm giving you strategies to regulate your
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: nervous system, which is no different than meditation or whatever.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: But the emotional processing piece, I just to protect myself,
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: like with liability, and to serve my clients the best.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: I do recommend trauma therapy as an adjunct to coaching,
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: but the two work so well together, and I think
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: that that's what's important to highlight.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: And you described that so well. I was actually on
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: a call the other day and someone was asking you
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: that question. What the biggest difference between therapy and coaching was.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: I did my best, but.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, therapy is very exploratory, meaning you do most of
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: the talking and you uncover a lot through your own
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: processing and talking, and the therapist is a guide to that. Right.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: The therapist is very, very concerned with making sure you're
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: sort of held gently. They're going to be a lot
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: more gentle. They're going to be a lot more focused
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: on you making your own discoveries. But for somebody like
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: the dismissive avoidant who's in a constant state of suppression
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: and who when you ask them to reveal, inherently become
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: dysregulated from that very circumstance, they don't do well in therapy.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: They do horrible in therapy. Horrible. In fact, I cannot
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: count how many times I have had somebody that is
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: a partner of a DA say well, my DA partner
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: went to therapy and it got worse because the therapist
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: is not focusing on their emotional suppression and their actual avoidance.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: They're just validating everything that they avoidant is saying like, oh,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: you have a right, of course you would want to
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: isolate over that, except that they fail to reveal that
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: isolation is always their pattern over everything emotional or close
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: or vulnerable in a relationship. Right, That's what they fail
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: to mention to the therapist because they don't see it.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: They don't notice it except maybe in little bits. And
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: so they do so much better with coaching. They just
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: do because I don't force them to be vulnerable. I
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: give them the steps to process what's in there, But
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: I don't force them to tell me what their process.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: Is, giving them actionable steps. And like I said in
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: the beginning, like they tend to be very.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Logical, and they want prescription. They want step one, do this,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: step two, do that. That is how their brains function.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Their brains are hyperlogical. They intellectualize instead of feeling their
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: real feelings. So they're very used of trying to think
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: their way out of problems.
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: So obviously, if you're an FA or whether you're a
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: DA and you're in this dynamic, which we've stated is painful,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: the most important point is that there's hope.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: There is hope. I mean, the FI can totally learn
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: to self regulate better, to become more emotionally regulated to
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: minimize their reactivity. They can learn non critical communication, which
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: is essential for the DA to feel safe. They can
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: learn to tolerate some space while also holding boundaries around
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: things being repaired inside of their relationship. The DA can
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: learn to start to feel their own feelings, therefore tolerate
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: other people's emotions and stay engaged in difficult conversations, therefore
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: staying engaged in the repair process. They can learn to
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: communicate their needs for space a little bit better, so
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: that their partner isn't just feeling abandoned, but understands that
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: the space is critical for them to be able to
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: process what's going on. So much can happen. And I
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: have seen hundreds and hundreds of FADA couples completely dramatically
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: change their relationship, and so somebody yesterday. But without the
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: right intervention, I mean, they usually tank in therapy. It's
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the dynamic where therapy makes things worse. And I hate
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: to say that, I don't want to because you have
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: a dog therapy.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're not dogging therapy. You're just saying that there's
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: certain interventions that are better for specific situations and in
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: this specific dynamic, in this specific situation FAA, the coaching
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: is just a better intervention.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: It is a better intervention for it and for the
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: DA specifically. I know, I said, yeah, they might need
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: a trauma therapist, but being exposed to some coaching first
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: and them coming on board with the idea that they
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: need to feel their feelings is so very important before
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: they go try to do it right right, because they
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: will skirt around it in therapy, they will intellectualize it.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: They won't I mean therapists.
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: There's just no consciousness around it.
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: They're not even recognizing and so they're not giving the
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: information to the therapist that the therapist needs. They're not
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: seeing the therapist is often not seeing this as an
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: attachment issue, right, and so then therefore they don't get
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: the prescriptive help that they need.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: So if you're living in this dynamic, whether you're the
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: DA or the FA, please go visit doctor Hinsley's website,
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: The Datingdecoder dot com. Her services include one on ones yep,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: her hybrid group coaching program, which is probably your most popular.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: It is definitely it's the fast track to healing us.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: And then of course her executive coaching program, which is
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: her most exclusive program. But please go check those out.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Why you're there, check out Coach Elizabeth.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Coach Elizabeth is awesome to you, who.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Also does one on ones and we are about to
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: introduce her to the hybrid group coaching program.
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: She is going to start doing some groups as well.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Because the demand is so high, the demand is high,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: we can't I can't personally meet the demand by myself,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: so we are buying Coach Elizabeth on and she is
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: very well trained. Yes, she is an high return rate,
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: very high return rate, very knowledgeable. She has a master's
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: in counseling. She had a attachment framework before she even
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: came to me, so that was the lens by which
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: she was trained. And she uses my curriculum, chooses my
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: coaching curriculum that I created, so she is as close
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: of a proxy to me as you can get, but
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: at a much more affordable price. Because listen, guys, I'm
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: the CEO. I have very very limited spots available, so
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I have to make coaching a higher price to make
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: it worth my while. Right in terms of revenue.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Again, you're worth one scaling business to your exchanging time
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: for money, and so where time becomes more in demand.
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: It's business one oh one, Okay. So we're not trying
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: to offend anyone or.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: With my prices, right, I mean, and the pill is
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: there not for every body, right, And that's why we
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: have Coach Elizabeth because she has a completely different price
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: point of them. That's why we have Coach Elizabeth, And
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: that's why the hybrid group coaching program is a good
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: set because obviously the overall goal here for DOC is
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: that to reach as many people as you possible. You
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: can't that's right. And there's only eight hours in a day.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: And if I only did individual coaching or couples coaching,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: so individual means one person or a couple, okay, but
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: it's one on one meaning it's me just with you guys,
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: or me just with you. There's no other participants. And
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: in my group program, you can be anonymous and people
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: need to know that. Okay. People hear a group and
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, I don't want to do that. You
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: can be completely anonymous. There's functions to be a blank
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: screen and to only private chat, right, so you don't
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: have to worry about the anonymity issue if that was
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: an issue for you. But I am trying to reach people,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: and I want to reach you know, ninety people in
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: a day instead of eight people in a day because
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: God has put me on a mission to teach people
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: how to love and to teach people directly or indirectly
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: about His love as well.
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's right, that's right, So please please again
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: go to doctor Hinsley's website, The Dandy Cooder dot com.
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: We have a special promo code just for our listeners,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: which is Love Doc twenty seven.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: You can use that at.
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: Checkout for the group or her course, and it will
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: give you twenty seven percent off. It's huge.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: That's the biggest discount I give.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is, and it's specifically for you because I
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: love you, because we love you and we appreciate you
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: so love each and every one of you so much.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so, please go visit her again and until next time, peace,
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: love and perspective.