Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mom ignores baby's severe bath burns; Girlfriend chops up boyfriend; Woman disappears during Graceland pilgrimage

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Mom ignores baby's severe bath burns; Girlfriend chops up boyfriend; Woman disappears during Graceland pilgrimage · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: dot com. Today Crime Stories with Nancy Grace now online
1:07
Speaker 1: a crime online dot com and on Sirius XM one
1:11
Speaker 1: thirty two. If our rescue came to revive the baby
1:16
Speaker 1: and zip down the baby's um nightie. The baby was
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Speaker 1: burned from the neck all the way to his move.
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Speaker 1: A one year old taught a taught boy dead from
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Speaker 1: quote severe bath burns? What happened? Joining me right now,
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Speaker 1: Doctor Chloe Carmichael, Anxiety Tools dot Com founder John Limley,
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter Ashley Willcott, child advocate and lawyer
1:47
Speaker 1: and death scene investigator, Private eye Vincent Hill to John Limley,
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter. This mom seemingly had it all together.
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Speaker 1: She worked at a girl cracker barrel. I mean, who
2:01
Speaker 1: doesn't love cracker barrel and cheesecake factory? Who doesn't love
2:05
Speaker 1: cheesecake factory? We've checked out our Facebook profile. She seemed
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Speaker 1: to be on top of it, raising her children and working.
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Speaker 1: But what exactly happened? This taught dies with severe burns?
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Speaker 1: What do we know? Nancy Christina Hurt told investigators that
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Speaker 1: Ethan was scalded while she was taking out the trash
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Speaker 1: at her house in Homestead. This is on the southern
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Speaker 1: outskirts of Miami. Christina says that while her ten year
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Speaker 1: old daughter was attempting to bathe the victim, the child
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Speaker 1: Christina's four year old son made the bathwater extremely hot,
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Speaker 1: and this caused the little boy to sustain severe burns
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Speaker 1: all the way from his mid torso down to his toes.
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Speaker 1: Christina stated that when she observed the victim's injuries, she
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Speaker 1: dropped because the victim's skin was burned and peeling, but
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Speaker 1: instead of calling for help, Christina gave the baby tylanol
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Speaker 1: and juice, and he threw up repeatedly throughout the night.
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Speaker 1: Christina allegedly told police that she didn't call nine one
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Speaker 1: one because she feared losing custody of her children. I
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Speaker 1: want to go back to the scene to Ashley Willcott
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Speaker 1: joining me child advocate. Ashley, talk to me about the
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Speaker 1: temperature required for this type of burn and how the
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Speaker 1: mom couldn't hear the child. I mean, typically, if you
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Speaker 1: put one toe in a hot tub and it's too hot,
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Speaker 1: you scream and get out of the tub. Exactly. Something's
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Speaker 1: tinky and does not add up because the temperature of
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Speaker 1: the water would have to be extreme and it would
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Speaker 1: have to warm up. Right. It's not like you turn
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Speaker 1: on water and it's this hot. And the severity of
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Speaker 1: burns in order to cause burning and peeling as the
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Speaker 1: mother described, requires that not only is the water hotter
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Speaker 1: than you can possibly imagine as hot as it can get.
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Speaker 1: It has to be on the skin constant contact torso
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Speaker 1: to toes to cause that severe burning and peeling. Okay,
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Speaker 1: wa wait wait wait wait wait, that's a lot of information. Okay.
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Speaker 1: The second worst cause of injuries that are bathtub and
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Speaker 1: shower related are unsafe water temperatures. It's what is referred
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Speaker 1: to as a phenomena of shock and scald shot called
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Speaker 1: by caused by cold water scald by hot Now, typically
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Speaker 1: because of the immediate pain and discomfort, the person instinctively
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Speaker 1: moves quickly away. Scalding is caused by dangerously hot water
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Speaker 1: and can cause burns. Now, what we have learned is
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Speaker 1: that no water in the bath should ever exceed one
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Speaker 1: hundred and ten degrees. Most water heating systems in the
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Speaker 1: US stores water at between one hundred and twenty and
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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty degrees. At just one hundred and
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Speaker 1: ten degrees, it takes twenty five minutes before water can
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Speaker 1: cause a skin injury. If you raise that to one
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Speaker 1: hundred and twenty, the burn time is about nineteen seconds.
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Speaker 1: If you raise it two one hundred and forty twelve
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Speaker 1: seconds At one hundred and fifty. You start burning in
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Speaker 1: less than one second. So what does that say about
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Speaker 1: the conditions here? To Ashley Willcot, if we were handling
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Speaker 1: this case, what would we have to prove? This child
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Speaker 1: dies of severe burns, the child's skin literally coming off
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Speaker 1: its body. Now explain to me what you believe, Ashley.
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Speaker 1: We would have to prove I've laid out for you.
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Speaker 1: The water temperature is how water is typically stored in
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Speaker 1: America's bathwater storage tanks. How did this happen? We would
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Speaker 1: have to prove that the story of the mother is
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Speaker 1: currently saying cannot possibly be accurate. The temperature of the
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Speaker 1: water means that it just didn't come out of the
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Speaker 1: pipe and burn the child to this extent. The other
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Speaker 1: thing that I would prove is the pattern. They say
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Speaker 1: that the burn is literally from the torso to the toes.
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Speaker 1: You already pointed out, Nancy, anybody who gets hot water
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Speaker 1: that hurts is gonna flail. Right. A one year old
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Speaker 1: is not going to just sit there. This child was
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Speaker 1: immersed the water covered the torso to the toes. This
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Speaker 1: is not a ten year old putting a child under
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Speaker 1: the faucet and oops, there's a burn there. Is so
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Speaker 1: much to prove in this case, that's not going to
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Speaker 1: be difficult because what the mother says happened isn't possible
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Speaker 1: to cause this severe burning. Explain to me why you
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Speaker 1: think it's possible, Because I have an issue with the
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Speaker 1: four year old running the bathwater, and I believe that
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Speaker 1: absolutely could happen, that the four year old turns it
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Speaker 1: on hot. But when the child gets in there, the
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Speaker 1: child would start screaming and flailing and jumping, and I
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Speaker 1: don't think a four year old could hold the baby
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Speaker 1: in there. I don't either. Now they say there was
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Speaker 1: also a ten year old involved, but even a ten
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Speaker 1: year old and a four year old are not, in
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Speaker 1: my opinion, gonna hold a child like that. I don't
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Speaker 1: think it happened this way at all. I don't think
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Speaker 1: what the mothers saying is realistic reasonable to think really happened.
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Speaker 1: This one year old would have burns all over the
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Speaker 1: body from flailing around. A ten year old and four
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Speaker 1: year old are not going to hold the baby submersed
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Speaker 1: under the water from torso to toes when they're reacting
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Speaker 1: that way, They're gonna pull them out out of the top. Well,
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Speaker 1: let me tell you what happened to me on a
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Speaker 1: delta flight, and no, I did not sue, and no,
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Speaker 1: I'm not going to sue. I was going to New
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Speaker 1: York because I had to go appear on something and
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Speaker 1: I had asked for hot tea. All right. The lady,
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Speaker 1: she was a young flight attendant, brought me hot water
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Speaker 1: and she was going to pour it in my cup.
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Speaker 1: That right there was stupid. I shouldn't have even allowed
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Speaker 1: that to happen. She handed me cup. She was going
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Speaker 1: to fill the cup up with water, pouring it over
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Speaker 1: the man sitting I was by the window. Okay. So
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Speaker 1: I was seated in an economy and I could barely move.
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Speaker 1: I had the table down with the laptop on it working,
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Speaker 1: of course, and it was holding my cup. There was
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Speaker 1: nowhere for me to go. Okay. The cup gave way
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Speaker 1: and it poured down my shirt. I had on a
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Speaker 1: thin denim shirt that that wouldn't I wear all the time, Ashley,
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Speaker 1: And it poured all the way down my chest and stomach,
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Speaker 1: mostly my stomach. I sat there, I didn't yell or
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Speaker 1: anything like that, and tears just sprang up in my
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Speaker 1: eyes and about She never said are you okay? Nothing,
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Speaker 1: She just kept going, and she came back like twenty
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Speaker 1: minutes later with a bag of ice, which I put
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Speaker 1: on my stomach. It immediately bubbled up and I have
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Speaker 1: scars on my stomach now from that hot water. But
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Speaker 1: in all the years of flying Delta, I never had
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Speaker 1: anything like that happened before. And I could tell she
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Speaker 1: was mortified, and it was really an accident, It really was.
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Speaker 1: So if that happened to me was just a cupful
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Speaker 1: of hot water for tea. What do you think happened
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Speaker 1: to this little boy? John Limley Crime Stories investigate a reporter.
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Speaker 1: The mom says she was taking out the trash. Is
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Speaker 1: that her story? That is exactly what she said she
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Speaker 1: was doing. This was at her home apparently later in
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Speaker 1: the day, and then Thursday morning, after dropping her other
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Speaker 1: children off at school, Christina said that she took her
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Speaker 1: injured son. His name, by the way, is Ethan. Family
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Speaker 1: friends have identified the child. She took Ethan to a
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Speaker 1: friend's home in Gules, Florida, which is about ten miles
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Speaker 1: away from her house. Witnesses told the cops that when
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Speaker 1: Christina arrived at the home in Guls, the baby was
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Speaker 1: lethargic and had shallow breathing. They urged Christina to get
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Speaker 1: medical help for the child, but she quote adamantly refused.
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Speaker 1: Around eleven that morning, the baby stopped breathing, and Christina
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Speaker 1: took him outside and placed him on a mattress in
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Speaker 1: the yard. Hold On, I've got an issue. I didn't
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Speaker 1: understand quite exactly how this is going down, John Loomwell, yes, now,
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Speaker 1: didn't she say she was taking out the trash? Yes? Okay,
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Speaker 1: So why are you saying when she returned to the
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Speaker 1: home where you just mean from taking the trash out right? Correct? Correct? Okay,
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Speaker 1: So Ashley Wilcott and doctor Chloe Carmichael joining me along
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Speaker 1: with Vincent Hill, that doesn't make sense to me. To
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Speaker 1: doctor Chloe, what do you think about the mom basically
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Speaker 1: blaming the other children? Well, exactly, Nancy. I think it's
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Speaker 1: it's really disgusting, you know, not only is she failing
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Speaker 1: to take responsibility even if this ridiculous story is true,
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Speaker 1: really it ultimately would be something that the mom would
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Speaker 1: want to talk about as her own failure that she
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Speaker 1: somehow didn't supervise the bath well enough, but she's really
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Speaker 1: talking about the other children's role in this. And moreover,
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Speaker 1: there's something in psychology that we call impression management, which
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Speaker 1: seems to be pretty active here where she's saying, well,
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Speaker 1: I didn't call the authorities because I didn't want to
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Speaker 1: lose custody, you know, as if she's just such a
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Speaker 1: good mom that she just didn't want to lose custody.
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Speaker 1: And I don't know if she actually even believes that herself.
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Speaker 1: But of course, if you realize that your baby has
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Speaker 1: a bad enough burn that losing custody would even be
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Speaker 1: an option, why on earth wouldn't you get that child
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Speaker 1: medical care? It just it doesn't make any sense, and
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Speaker 1: it seems extremely selfish of her the way that she's
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Speaker 1: going about this. Take a lista to what neighbors say
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Speaker 1: happened when the baby was discovered burned. My brother ran
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Speaker 1: over to try to help with the situation and found
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Speaker 1: the baby. The one old was laying on a dirty
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Speaker 1: mattress and at the time the baby, he was trying
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Speaker 1: to do CPR, but the baby threw up look like
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Speaker 1: apple juice. When paramedics try to I guess do an
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Speaker 1: EKG or whatever they were doing when they zipped down
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Speaker 1: the baby onesie. The baby was burned from neck to
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Speaker 1: his niece too. Ashley Willcott, veteran lawyer and renowned child advocate. Ashley,
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Speaker 1: I know that I was probably too overprotective, as many
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Speaker 1: people have pointed out to me. But we are talking
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Speaker 1: about a young Miami mom whose one year old son
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Speaker 1: dead from quote severe bath burns, and then mommy refuses
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Speaker 1: to call nine one one because she was afraid authorities
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Speaker 1: would take her children away from her. That delay in
13:23
Speaker 1: calling nine one one may have cost her son his life.
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Speaker 1: Mom doesn't call nine one one for fear of losing
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Speaker 1: her children. Not only is it a criminal charge, this
13:38
Speaker 1: is a juvenile court dependency neglect abuse case. Not only
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Speaker 1: is it a crime, but you should not have your
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Speaker 1: child when you are not going to give them a
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Speaker 1: bath supervised and allow these things to happen. I still
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Speaker 1: don't believe mother's story. I think she did it too.
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Speaker 1: John Elimley, investigative reporter, John. How many hours passed before
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Speaker 1: she finally called nine Well, it was well into the
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Speaker 1: next day after the child was burned in the we've
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Speaker 1: assumed the early evening hours the night before. It was
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Speaker 1: around eleven am that the baby stopped breathing. She took
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Speaker 1: the child outside, put him on a mattress on the
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Speaker 1: yard and a neighbor came over tried to perform CPR
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Speaker 1: while his sister then called nine one. She never did
14:31
Speaker 1: call nine one one. The sister call nine one. Is
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Speaker 1: that correct, right a neighbor? Yes. Now what we understand
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Speaker 1: is the four year old son made the bathwater and
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Speaker 1: the ten year old daughter was in there trying to
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Speaker 1: bathe the little boy. And then the mom says when
14:51
Speaker 1: she observed her son's injuries, she dropped because his skin
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Speaker 1: was burned and already peeling. Instead of calling for help,
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Speaker 1: Ashley Walcott, she gave the baby taylanol in juice while
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Speaker 1: he threw up repeatedly during the night. And that's medical neglect, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: Just that tiny little pieces medical neglect. Even if it
15:14
Speaker 1: was a true innocent accident, that's medical neglect resulting in
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Speaker 1: the death, i e. Manslaughter of your own child. She
15:24
Speaker 1: then takes the children to other children to school the
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Speaker 1: following morning and goes to a friend's home. The friends
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Speaker 1: say the baby was lethargic and had shallow breathing. They
15:34
Speaker 1: begged her to get medical help, but she adamantly refused.
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Speaker 1: According to the report, around eleven am, the baby stops breathing.
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Speaker 1: Neighbors tried to give the baby CPR, and when the
15:52
Speaker 1: paramedics came, they pulled down his little zipper on his
15:57
Speaker 1: jumper and say, oh my god. The child unresponsive and
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Speaker 1: pronounced dead at the scene. John Linley has been doing
16:08
Speaker 1: some digging on the mom, John, What have you found, Nancy?
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Speaker 1: Court records showed that Christina has five other children and
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Speaker 1: that she previously served two years on probation for a
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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen child neglect charge. So she's already been on probation,
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Speaker 1: yet she gets all the children back. Ashley, that is
16:29
Speaker 1: so wrong, it is And yeah, she was on probation,
16:34
Speaker 1: but you cannot stop monitoring and requiring to do things
16:38
Speaker 1: to prove she can properly care for and supervise her children,
16:42
Speaker 1: which clearly she cannot. If a child is burned, FYI
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Speaker 1: apply immediate first aid dial nine one one or in
16:53
Speaker 1: some places triple zero for an ambulance if it's severe.
16:57
Speaker 1: Do not use butter oils or eyes to treat burns.
17:03
Speaker 1: Allan deep joining me, what do you know about how
17:05
Speaker 1: to avoid this very same thing in your home? Nancy?
17:09
Speaker 1: As the grandfather of two toddlers, it's something I think
17:12
Speaker 1: about I check the Mayo Clinic website, always a good
17:15
Speaker 1: place for advice. Reduce water temperature at the hot water
17:19
Speaker 1: heater on the thermostat to below one and twenty degrease fahrenheit.
17:23
Speaker 1: No real good reason to have it hotter than that.
17:26
Speaker 1: And at bathtime, aim for water around one hundred degrees fahrenheit.
17:31
Speaker 1: Put your hand in there, and if it's not hot
17:34
Speaker 1: for you, then it should be safe for your child.
17:36
Speaker 1: But do that before you put them in the bath.
17:39
Speaker 1: Avoid hot spills when you carry drink or hot food,
17:43
Speaker 1: don't carry the child at the same time. You can
17:45
Speaker 1: spill it on them, and watch out. If you've got
17:47
Speaker 1: it on the edge of the table or the counter
17:49
Speaker 1: and there's a tablecloth or a placement there, they can
17:51
Speaker 1: easily just reach up with their little hands and pull
17:53
Speaker 1: it down on them and burn them. Here's one I'm
17:56
Speaker 1: really obsessed with. Turn the handles of pots and pans
18:00
Speaker 1: towards the rear of the stove. Use back burners when
18:03
Speaker 1: possible so that they don't reach up and pull the
18:06
Speaker 1: pot of hot boiling water right down on them. And
18:09
Speaker 1: of course don't leave the stove unattended. And another one,
18:13
Speaker 1: when you're cooking with a microwave. When you're heating up food,
18:16
Speaker 1: it can be uneven, so it may be hotter than
18:20
Speaker 1: you realize when you're giving it to the child, so
18:22
Speaker 1: be careful about that, and of course, never warm a
18:25
Speaker 1: baby's bottle in a microwave. I also hear children reaching
18:29
Speaker 1: for curling irons are hot devices. Clothes irons. I did
18:34
Speaker 1: that as a little girl. Check your outlets and electrical
18:37
Speaker 1: cords and use fire resistant fabrics. I want to pause
18:43
Speaker 1: and thank our partner making our investigation into the death
18:46
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20:11
Speaker 1: blonde from Daytona Beach, Florida now being eyeball by police
20:16
Speaker 1: and not only the death but the dismemberment of her boyfriend.
20:22
Speaker 1: What John Limley, investigative reporter joining me right now. What happened?
20:29
Speaker 1: John Nancy. It had been sometimes since family and friends
20:33
Speaker 1: had seen Jeffrey Albertsman in Daytona Beach, and finally Daytona
20:39
Speaker 1: police were called to his residence for a wellness check,
20:43
Speaker 1: and that's when they found Jeffrey's body, or what remained
20:48
Speaker 1: of it. According to an affidavit, he had been shot
20:51
Speaker 1: in the head and the chest, and his arms and
20:55
Speaker 1: legs were missing. Holy Molly all right, doctor Carmichael, founder
21:01
Speaker 1: of Anxiety tools dot com, New York psychologist Doctor Chloe, Boy,
21:06
Speaker 1: do I need to shrink now? This requires not only
21:10
Speaker 1: shooting someone, but then dismembering them. You know how difficult
21:16
Speaker 1: it is, doctor Chloe, to actually physically dismember a body.
21:20
Speaker 1: It's not like on TV, like on Monk, where you
21:24
Speaker 1: just find a toe here, a finger there in the park.
21:28
Speaker 1: In this bucolic setting, it's not like that. It's not
21:32
Speaker 1: even like Dexter where he lines everything in plastic and
21:37
Speaker 1: everything looks pretty pristine. It is a very difficult thing
21:44
Speaker 1: physically to dismember a human body. But the mental capacity
21:49
Speaker 1: required to actually sever someone's limbs from their torso, doctor Chloe,
21:55
Speaker 1: what kind of mind does that require? Well, Nancy, yes,
21:59
Speaker 1: it seems to be an absolutely deranged mind. And moreover
22:04
Speaker 1: the fact that this is coming from a female makes
22:07
Speaker 1: it even more even more unusual. Obviously, it's unusual in
22:10
Speaker 1: the first place to murder, much less to dismember, but
22:14
Speaker 1: then for a female to be doing that, I've never
22:19
Speaker 1: heard of anything like this. Frankly, I want to go
22:21
Speaker 1: back to John Limley, Crime Stories, investigative reporter John Limley,
22:26
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about why police went. Well,
22:31
Speaker 1: it had been so long since family and friends had
22:35
Speaker 1: had any contact with Jeffrey Albertsman that finally one of
22:42
Speaker 1: them decided it was worth a call just to have
22:45
Speaker 1: police go and see if he was there, if there
22:49
Speaker 1: was any any sign of any crime. And this is
22:53
Speaker 1: when they found his body, you know, to Ashley Wilcott
22:56
Speaker 1: joining me, lawyer and victim's advocate, Ashley, that took a
23:03
Speaker 1: lot because, you know, for relatives to actually want police
23:06
Speaker 1: to go there, because the time passes. Very often, when
23:10
Speaker 1: I don't see a certain person for a period of days,
23:13
Speaker 1: I don't think anything of it. But in this case,
23:16
Speaker 1: they had an inkling that something was very wrong to
23:19
Speaker 1: the extent they called police. This is an example a
23:22
Speaker 1: trust your gut and reports indicate that this woman had
23:27
Speaker 1: been in a ten year relationship with this man, and
23:31
Speaker 1: for her to escalate to the point of actually dismembering
23:34
Speaker 1: her boyfriend, I think there were probably a lot of
23:38
Speaker 1: red flags that she was abusive to this man. You know,
23:41
Speaker 1: and very often we don't see partner abuse like spousal
23:45
Speaker 1: abuse happening committed by the woman on the man. But
23:50
Speaker 1: I recall distinctly when I worked at the Battered Women's Center.
23:53
Speaker 1: It does exist very often. It's pooh pooed I Florida
23:57
Speaker 1: woman out of Daytona Beach now being eyed in the
24:01
Speaker 1: fatal shooting and dismemberment of her boyfriend. Now, of course
24:08
Speaker 1: she's the first one you'll look at. Vincent Hill, private
24:11
Speaker 1: eye and death scene investigator. No offense to all the
24:15
Speaker 1: husband's wives, boyfriends and girlfriends out there, but statistically that's
24:19
Speaker 1: usually who commits the murder. Yeah, and Nancy always want
24:22
Speaker 1: to look at the person that's closest to the victim,
24:24
Speaker 1: right because they were typically the one that had the
24:27
Speaker 1: intimate relationship. And anytime you're talking dismemberment, that's a very personal,
24:33
Speaker 1: up close type of thing, and it's you alluded to
24:36
Speaker 1: it earlier. It's not easy, but it's also not quiet.
24:39
Speaker 1: So you know, that was probably something that was very
24:44
Speaker 1: brutal going on in that home that no one really knew.
24:47
Speaker 1: Back to John Limley joining US Crimes Toys investigative reporter,
24:52
Speaker 1: this woman, Nelsie Tetley. She lived in the same home
24:57
Speaker 1: with the victim. Police called to their residence for a
25:00
Speaker 1: wellness check or a security check. What that is is
25:05
Speaker 1: when you suspect. There's a problem. You call a police
25:07
Speaker 1: and they go do a security check, knock on the doors,
25:09
Speaker 1: look in the windows. They find Albertsman's body shot in
25:14
Speaker 1: the head and the chest, his arms and legs missing.
25:20
Speaker 1: Now that's certainly putting perfume on the pig. John Limley
25:23
Speaker 1: to say they're missing, it's like, oh, I can't find
25:26
Speaker 1: my car keys are missing. His arms and legs were missing, John.
25:31
Speaker 1: Were the limbs ever located, Yes, Nancy, but not until
25:36
Speaker 1: two more months. Two months later, the decomposing limbs were
25:41
Speaker 1: found at a fernery. This is a plant nursery that
25:45
Speaker 1: grows ferns in western Volusia County. WHOA, okay, So they
25:51
Speaker 1: find the limbs badly decomposing by that time at kind
25:56
Speaker 1: of a nursery, and they got DNA results from the
26:00
Speaker 1: crime scene. To Vincent Hill Dessie, an investigator, I mean,
26:05
Speaker 1: just you know, map it out on your head. This
26:09
Speaker 1: would require someone that could shoot the person dead and
26:13
Speaker 1: then not be concerned about being caught. They stay in
26:18
Speaker 1: the home long enough to dismember the legs and arms
26:21
Speaker 1: off the torso that sounds like somebody that lives there
26:25
Speaker 1: and intruder. If they're going to kill you, kill you
26:27
Speaker 1: and leave. They don't want to get caught. They're worried
26:29
Speaker 1: somebody might come in the front door. Yeah, Nancy, it's
26:32
Speaker 1: definitely not someone that broke in for a home invasion
26:35
Speaker 1: or burglar or anything like that. It's someone that's comfortable
26:38
Speaker 1: in the home, someone that wouldn't look out of place
26:41
Speaker 1: being in the home. Someone that could take their time
26:44
Speaker 1: move parts of the body much layer drive at twenty
26:46
Speaker 1: miles like nothing ever happened. Let me ask you about this,
26:50
Speaker 1: what do we know about the state of their relationship, John?
26:55
Speaker 1: According to the arrest affidavit, Nancy Nelson and Jeffrey, as
27:00
Speaker 1: we have mentioned, had been romantically involved for about nine years,
27:04
Speaker 1: but court records revealed that it was a rocky relationship.
27:09
Speaker 1: Nelsie was arrested in October of twenty sixteen after she
27:13
Speaker 1: struck Jeffrey and she actually told him quote, I could
27:17
Speaker 1: kill you tonight if I wanted. She was sentenced to
27:21
Speaker 1: eleven months probation, which she completed in May of twenty seventeen.
27:25
Speaker 1: Court records also show incidents where Nelsie allegedly peppers, freed
27:31
Speaker 1: Jeffrey and even stabbed it to doctor Chloe Carmichael, founder
27:35
Speaker 1: of Anxiety tools dot com. New York psychologist doctor Chloe
27:39
Speaker 1: Why would he stay in the relationship when she had
27:43
Speaker 1: threatened him, had beaten him in the past, had actually
27:47
Speaker 1: stabbed him It was a minor wound. On one occasion.
27:52
Speaker 1: He even took out a restraining order against her, but
27:55
Speaker 1: yet stayed together. Well, Nancy, that's the age old question.
27:59
Speaker 1: As you know, why do victims stay with abusers? And
28:03
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of theories about that. One
28:06
Speaker 1: of the interesting ways to think about it sometimes is
28:08
Speaker 1: actually an economic theory, which is the theory of sunk costs. So,
28:13
Speaker 1: once you've invested so much time and energy and tolerated
28:17
Speaker 1: so much abuse from a person, there's actually a part
28:21
Speaker 1: of you that starts to think that this person must
28:23
Speaker 1: be really special and amazing, or else you wouldn't have
28:26
Speaker 1: invested so much in them. So ironically, the more abuse
28:30
Speaker 1: that you take from a person, and the worst that
28:32
Speaker 1: abuse is, the more invested you can actually become in
28:37
Speaker 1: believing that this person must be really special and wonderful. Well,
28:40
Speaker 1: I guess the thinking is, Wow, I've already sunk in
28:44
Speaker 1: ten years into this thing. If I could just get
28:47
Speaker 1: in the blink him her to change in the blink
28:52
Speaker 1: what the behavior is, then it would all be great.
28:54
Speaker 1: So you keep on making the same mistake over and over.
28:59
Speaker 1: So okay, he stays in the home, and then what
29:02
Speaker 1: happens to John Limley, Well, it's just a matter of months.
29:07
Speaker 1: In fact, two months pass between when she completed that
29:12
Speaker 1: eleven months probation and she returned to the home. Two
29:17
Speaker 1: months later is when his body or his torso was
29:21
Speaker 1: found in the home. This is the real kicker, isn't
29:24
Speaker 1: it true, John Limley? That we have now discovered this woman,
29:28
Speaker 1: this lady Nelsie Tetley, is also suspected. Now she is
29:34
Speaker 1: being tied to a similar slaying of another boyfriend ten
29:41
Speaker 1: years ago. Yes, Nancy, it was in Ormond Beach. It
29:45
Speaker 1: happened about a decade before. This is the twenty the
29:49
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven case of Michael Scott Lewis. His body,
29:54
Speaker 1: his chopped up body, was found in garbage bags along
29:58
Speaker 1: the Tumoca River for The affidavit interestingly notes that Jeffrey
30:04
Speaker 1: Albertsman and Michael Scott Lewis, who were both dismembered, were
30:09
Speaker 1: both done in a very unusual way with the use
30:14
Speaker 1: of a knife tying these two cases together. Interestingly, Nelsi
30:20
Speaker 1: denied remembering that Michael Scott Lewis, a man she had dated,
30:25
Speaker 1: had been murdered. Take a listen to what the Daytona
30:28
Speaker 1: Beach Police Chief Craig Capri has to say. He went
30:31
Speaker 1: out there and we're able to go inside the residence
30:35
Speaker 1: still well being check when we found our victims, Jeffrey Albertsman,
30:40
Speaker 1: who was deceased at the time. We found a decomposed
30:44
Speaker 1: body which was in there for probably about two weeks
30:46
Speaker 1: part of us getting there, and body had a single
30:50
Speaker 1: gunshot went to the head and the body of missing
30:53
Speaker 1: its arms of links, which was kind of a suspicious.
30:57
Speaker 1: We knew that there was a former ex girlfriend that
31:01
Speaker 1: he had some problems within the past. He had filed
31:03
Speaker 1: a junction petition which never got completed for protection through
31:08
Speaker 1: to some domestic incidents that he had with the suspect.
31:12
Speaker 1: He was stabbed by her, and there was a lot
31:14
Speaker 1: of filing episodes. Our suspect's name is h Nelse Technical.
31:20
Speaker 1: She's sixty seven years old, white female. She was the
31:24
Speaker 1: girlfriend of the victim. We as we got further than
31:29
Speaker 1: our investigation, conducting interviews and collecting some evidence we processed
31:34
Speaker 1: the crime scene. We had set some some blood evidence
31:36
Speaker 1: off of DNA to see if we could match stuff up.
31:39
Speaker 1: We got that back and which showed our suspects DNA
31:44
Speaker 1: was inside the residence where it shouldn't have been. Also,
31:48
Speaker 1: in September twentieth this year, we responded out to a
31:53
Speaker 1: fernery out in West Volution where we found that somebody
31:56
Speaker 1: parts were found which were confirmed to be of our victim.
31:59
Speaker 1: We are way for justice too unfold. Hang on one moment,
32:03
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32:08
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32:12
Speaker 1: All the time. I am too, And the earlier I
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33:58
Speaker 1: is pretty bizarre. What do a family road trip, Graceland,
34:03
Speaker 1: the home, the Elvis Presley memorial and a dead body
34:09
Speaker 1: have to do with each other? I Nancy Grace, this
34:12
Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. Questions
34:15
Speaker 1: arise when a wife goes missing during a family road
34:20
Speaker 1: trip to Graceland. All is not as it appears. Joining
34:26
Speaker 1: me there on the same Pamela for our Crime Stories
34:28
Speaker 1: investigative reporter, Pamela, what happened? Well, that's a very good question.
34:35
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what inspired him to do that, but
34:37
Speaker 1: what inspired him to take the trip was the fact
34:41
Speaker 1: that his wife, Roberta, was dying from cancer. So they
34:45
Speaker 1: decided to take one last trip and they wanted that
34:49
Speaker 1: trip to be to Graceland to Memphis and before she died,
34:54
Speaker 1: and she was not doing very well, so this is
34:56
Speaker 1: the trip they decided to take. On January the source,
35:00
Speaker 1: they traveled from Hartville, Ohio, got in their car, packed
35:05
Speaker 1: it up, and they traveled to Sparta, Kentucky. That's kind
35:10
Speaker 1: of a halfway point really from Hartville to Memphis. They
35:13
Speaker 1: got a motel room they spent the night. The next day,
35:16
Speaker 1: January the fifth, they continue their journey to Memphis. When
35:20
Speaker 1: they arrived Philips, the husband got a room at the
35:24
Speaker 1: day's end, which is directly across from Graceland. I guess
35:27
Speaker 1: that was going to make it convenient for them to
35:29
Speaker 1: go see whoa hold on Pamela Fur, Let me understand something.
35:32
Speaker 1: Where did they start their trip? They started their trip
35:35
Speaker 1: in Hartville, Ohio. Okay, So does their route make sense?
35:39
Speaker 1: They go from Hartville to Kentucky. I believe you said yes,
35:43
Speaker 1: yes from yes, it does. If you want to go
35:46
Speaker 1: from that area to Memphis, you would travel through Kentucky
35:49
Speaker 1: to get to that final destination and again a halfway point.
35:55
Speaker 1: They spent the night there in Sparta. Let me ask
35:57
Speaker 1: another question, Pamela Fir joining me from Tennessee on a
36:01
Speaker 1: Tennessee story out of Graceland where the King Elvis has
36:07
Speaker 1: his memorial. Pamela, does anybody else confirm the wife had cancer?
36:12
Speaker 1: Are we learning this just from the husband? The brother
36:15
Speaker 1: actually confirmed that he that she was diagnosed with cancer.
36:19
Speaker 1: The brother of roberta to police that she had been sick. Okay,
36:23
Speaker 1: so being diagnosed with cancer, I mean I had a
36:26
Speaker 1: melanome on my leg, so I guess technically I could
36:30
Speaker 1: say I had cancer. I don't really think of it
36:33
Speaker 1: that way, because, thank God in Heaven, it did not spread,
36:40
Speaker 1: and David did not get the joy of running out
36:45
Speaker 1: and marrying some tramp to raise my children. So I'm
36:49
Speaker 1: still here, Okay, but I mean, how do we know?
36:53
Speaker 1: He says his wife was dying of cancer. That's good
36:58
Speaker 1: that you're saying. The brother said, as she had cancer?
37:01
Speaker 1: Bet yeah, was she you know? Just curious? Yeah? I mean,
37:05
Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, don't poop poo me. I mean, these are
37:07
Speaker 1: questions I need to know the answers to go ahead, Pamela. Yeah.
37:10
Speaker 1: So we fast forward to January the ninth, when you
37:13
Speaker 1: have a missing person and the police in Heartville, Ohio
37:18
Speaker 1: are investigating. Things get bizarre at this point, Philip Sniper,
37:23
Speaker 1: who said she was missing, who reported her missing? Brother?
37:25
Speaker 1: The brother said, we can't find her up and trying
37:28
Speaker 1: to reach her, and she is not answering our phone calls.
37:32
Speaker 1: Philip wasn't answering his phone calls, so he contacted the
37:36
Speaker 1: police and at that point the police opened a missing
37:39
Speaker 1: person investigation. Pamela, what happened then? Well, this is where
37:43
Speaker 1: things get bizarre. So Heartville, Ohio police contacts Philip and
37:48
Speaker 1: ask him where's your wife? What happened? And he tells
37:52
Speaker 1: them that she passed away on the trip from Ohio
37:57
Speaker 1: to Memphis. When they got to the Memphis days in
38:01
Speaker 1: across from Graceland, she he says, passed away, so he
38:07
Speaker 1: flagged down an ambulance that he saw parked outside of
38:12
Speaker 1: the days In on the street. He tells police that
38:15
Speaker 1: he contacted that emergency person there in the ambulance and said,
38:19
Speaker 1: my wife has died. And at that point the ambulance
38:22
Speaker 1: took the body and drove away, and he told police
38:25
Speaker 1: at that point he didn't know where his wife's body was,
38:28
Speaker 1: and so that's when he drove back to Ohio. That
38:33
Speaker 1: was the first story. So we had the brother of
38:36
Speaker 1: Roberta Snyder calling the Hartville, Ohio Police Department telling them
38:42
Speaker 1: that his wife was missing. Nobody has any idea where
38:46
Speaker 1: she is. Then the husband, Roberta's husband explains that his
38:52
Speaker 1: wife died in Memphis and he pulled over and asked
38:58
Speaker 1: an EMT for help. He claims that his wife was
39:02
Speaker 1: taken to an unknown location after Pyramids confirmed she is
39:06
Speaker 1: in fact dead, and that is what he told them.
39:10
Speaker 1: What happened then with me, Pamela fur they're in Tennessee
39:14
Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative contributing reporter. I don't understand. Couldn't they
39:18
Speaker 1: locate her from the EMT ride. I mean to Vincent Hill,
39:23
Speaker 1: death investigator. Vincent, when you take a ride in an ambulance,
39:28
Speaker 1: isn't that always documented? Absolutely? Nancy has documented it's dispatch
39:34
Speaker 1: dispatcher records, the pickup location, the drop off location, So
39:38
Speaker 1: all of those records should have been known to the
39:41
Speaker 1: other mts that this man approached and said, Hey, I
39:45
Speaker 1: can't find my wife. She was taken away, but I
39:47
Speaker 1: don't know where she is. I recall distinctly the one
39:50
Speaker 1: and only time I recall being in an ambulance. I
39:53
Speaker 1: was pregnant in Florida. We thought that I was giving
39:56
Speaker 1: birth even more prematurely than I did, and I had
40:00
Speaker 1: a very long, one hour ambulance ride with an EMT
40:06
Speaker 1: named Elvis who had one eye. That's what I remember,
40:11
Speaker 1: and you know, he was awesome, and I remember it
40:16
Speaker 1: to this day, and I'm sure there's a record of it.
40:19
Speaker 1: So what I don't understand, Pamela Fir, you just heard
40:22
Speaker 1: our death scene investigator Vincent Hill. All of that is documented.
40:28
Speaker 1: Nobody can find out where the body is, correct, there's
40:32
Speaker 1: no record of it. Hertville, Ohio Police Department contacted the
40:37
Speaker 1: Benton County Sheriff's Department and other officials there, and there
40:42
Speaker 1: is no record of anybody being taken from the parking
40:46
Speaker 1: lot of the day's end across the street from Graceland.
40:49
Speaker 1: There's no record of it, there's no police report, there's nothing,
40:53
Speaker 1: and it's been investigated. So Philip wasn't exactly telling the Heartville,
40:59
Speaker 1: Ohio police apartment the truth. And things even get more
41:04
Speaker 1: bizarre after that, after they said I'm sorry, sir, but
41:07
Speaker 1: we have no record of anything like that, he changes
41:11
Speaker 1: his story and then at that point says, well, what
41:15
Speaker 1: happened was she died on the way to Memphis. I
41:19
Speaker 1: decided on the way back to Ohio that I would
41:23
Speaker 1: dump her body off the Tennessee off the bridge into
41:27
Speaker 1: the Tennessee River so that she could be with nature.
41:31
Speaker 1: That's the way that she wanted to die. Wait wait, wait,
41:34
Speaker 1: wait wait, be with nature? Yes with me? New York
41:39
Speaker 1: psychologist and founder of Anxiety tools dot Com Doctor Chloe Carmichael,
41:45
Speaker 1: Doctor Chloe be with nature. Yes, Nancy, I hear it.
41:50
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty implausible. At the same time, I just
41:54
Speaker 1: have to understand that this is a husband who's who
41:59
Speaker 1: perhaps protect Chili, may have lost his wife who certainly,
42:04
Speaker 1: it sounds like, appeared to realize that it's not okay
42:07
Speaker 1: to you know, put a body into a river to
42:10
Speaker 1: be with nature, even if the person did have cancer
42:14
Speaker 1: at the same time. You know, if it is true
42:18
Speaker 1: that his wife had cancer, it would be an extreme trauma,
42:22
Speaker 1: a terrible loss. Sometimes the spouses even actually come up
42:27
Speaker 1: with these plans together. You know that one of them
42:30
Speaker 1: wants the other person to help them in an assisted suicide.
42:35
Speaker 1: So I think the only thing that we can really
42:37
Speaker 1: see clearly here, at least from a psychology standpoint, is
42:41
Speaker 1: that this man is either confused or in shock, or
42:46
Speaker 1: is deliberately covering something up. Well, it just gets crazier
42:50
Speaker 1: and crazier. We are talking about a wife and her
42:54
Speaker 1: husband a family road trip. They decide they want to
42:57
Speaker 1: go from their home all the way by car to
43:00
Speaker 1: Grace Land and celebrate Elvis Presley. Well, somehow en route,
43:05
Speaker 1: his wife or her body disappear. He claims she passed
43:11
Speaker 1: away by natural causes on the trip. Once they finally
43:15
Speaker 1: make it to Memphis and he flags down an ambulance
43:19
Speaker 1: an emte's parked, and they take her, and he has
43:24
Speaker 1: no idea where she's been taken. But then suddenly the
43:27
Speaker 1: story changes and he conducts his own funeral and throws
43:31
Speaker 1: her over an overpass to be in the Tennessee River
43:34
Speaker 1: to be back with nature. Okay, Pamela for joining me
43:39
Speaker 1: there in Tennessee. Pamela, what happened then? Well, at that point,
43:43
Speaker 1: that's when the Benton County Sheriff's Department has decided to
43:48
Speaker 1: get involved, because if there's a dead body that's been
43:50
Speaker 1: thrown into the Tennessee River, they have to investigate, because
43:54
Speaker 1: you can't do that. So at this point, they are
43:57
Speaker 1: looking for this body. So far they've found nothing, and
44:02
Speaker 1: so far there's been nobody in Memphis. So she's still missing.
44:07
Speaker 1: So the investigation continues. And I also want to add
44:11
Speaker 1: Roberta Snyder's brother, who reported her missing, says that Philips,
44:17
Speaker 1: the husband, told family members that she died and he
44:21
Speaker 1: left her ashes in Tennessee. So there's actually three different
44:26
Speaker 1: stories at this point coming from Philip Snyder. After speaking
44:30
Speaker 1: with Philip Snyder and e MS Company's hospital and medical
44:34
Speaker 1: examiner offices in the Memphis area, police determine no women
44:39
Speaker 1: matching Roberta's description had been there. And I'm looking at
44:42
Speaker 1: a picture of her right now. She looks pretty good
44:46
Speaker 1: to me. She doesn't actually even look sick. Now. According
44:49
Speaker 1: to the brother, her brother. She was battling cancer. But
44:54
Speaker 1: battling cancer and dying from cancer are two very, very
44:59
Speaker 1: dif different things. I'm looking Jack, you look at this
45:03
Speaker 1: picture of Roberta. She looks fine as a fiddle to me.
45:07
Speaker 1: She's doing a kind of an over the shoulder look,
45:09
Speaker 1: clutching her little pocket. But look at this, Look at
45:12
Speaker 1: her cute right all right to Vincent Hill joining me,
45:17
Speaker 1: Private Eye and Death Seen Investigator, Vincent Hill. The whole
45:20
Speaker 1: thing just stink. So what do we do now? There's
45:23
Speaker 1: no body. There's certainly no ashes. I mean, when you'd
45:26
Speaker 1: make ashes and you cremate, there would be evidence of
45:32
Speaker 1: a cremation. I mean, that's very very strictly regulated. Plus
45:38
Speaker 1: don't most people keep some of the ashes? I mean
45:40
Speaker 1: I've even got my cat's ashes. Yeah, absolutely, Nancy. I mean,
45:44
Speaker 1: you can't just go out into the backyard and burn
45:47
Speaker 1: a body and collect the ashes. You would have to
45:49
Speaker 1: go to someone that's trained and license to do that.
45:51
Speaker 1: Ancent Hill, I'd like to thank you for conjuring that
45:54
Speaker 1: image up in my mind, because now that I've seen
45:57
Speaker 1: it in my mind, I can't unsee it. But okay,
46:00
Speaker 1: go ahead, Sorry, Nancy. You know and the whole thing
46:03
Speaker 1: about he wanted her to be with nature. As an investigator,
46:07
Speaker 1: when I hear someone's dumped in the water, it tells
46:09
Speaker 1: me you're trying to hide evidence and the thing about
46:12
Speaker 1: the truth, not that you want them to be with nature.
46:15
Speaker 1: You're trying to hide their body for being about the truth.
46:18
Speaker 1: It doesn't change, right, So why is this guy's story
46:21
Speaker 1: changing so many times? The truth has not changed at all.
46:25
Speaker 1: It's the same story every time. Phone records, credit card data,
46:28
Speaker 1: GPS info as now being investigated to hopefully get a
46:33
Speaker 1: little bit of a more detailed picture about what happened
46:36
Speaker 1: to Roberta. Now, the FBI has also been asked to
46:40
Speaker 1: conduct a polygraph on Philip Snyder. Do we have any
46:44
Speaker 1: idea whether he has agreed to do that, Pamela, Yeah,
46:47
Speaker 1: he actually has agreed to do that. It is unknown
46:51
Speaker 1: at this time if he's actually gone through that process yet,
46:54
Speaker 1: but I do know that he has agreed to do it.
46:57
Speaker 1: It's also my understanding you mentioned the credit card receipts
46:59
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. They've talked to the clerk
47:02
Speaker 1: at the day's end there in Memphis, and although he
47:05
Speaker 1: does remember Philip checking in, he checked in with his
47:11
Speaker 1: wife's credit card, paid for this room with his wife's
47:14
Speaker 1: credit card, but he does not remember seeing Roberta at all.
47:19
Speaker 1: He does contend that there's a possibility he wouldn't have
47:22
Speaker 1: seen her, but he doesn't recall seeing her in the
47:25
Speaker 1: vehicle that they were driving when they checked in. Wow.
47:29
Speaker 1: What we're saying is that this woman was last seen
47:31
Speaker 1: alive January one. This is an event that happened somewhere
47:38
Speaker 1: between home and Graceland. That seven hundred miles between their
47:46
Speaker 1: home and Graceland. Their home in Hartville, Ohio. Hartville Police
47:52
Speaker 1: working the case, Memphis Police working the case. We are
47:58
Speaker 1: working the case. I've got a very very strong feeling,
48:02
Speaker 1: doctor Chloe Carmichael that ROBERTA. Snyder did not want to
48:08
Speaker 1: be thrown unceremoniously often overpass on I ninety into the
48:13
Speaker 1: Tennessee River to quote be with nature. I would agree, Nancy,
48:18
Speaker 1: it does sound pretty implausible. I'm just trying to understand
48:23
Speaker 1: the motivation and the mental clarity of the husband when
48:28
Speaker 1: he did this, because they do think psychologically. That's an
48:31
Speaker 1: important distinction. Take a listen to what the Benton County
48:34
Speaker 1: Sheriff has to say. This is Kenny Christopher. Listen. He
48:38
Speaker 1: said to have wrapped her body in plastic and dispose
48:42
Speaker 1: of her body over this bridge here. According to what
48:44
Speaker 1: he's telling authorities, there is and she passed away somewhere
48:48
Speaker 1: in Kentucky on the way to Graceland. And he continued
48:52
Speaker 1: on with their journey. So they flew up and down
48:54
Speaker 1: the river channel and before about eight mop north of
48:57
Speaker 1: here where the river flowing, and we found nothing. For
49:01
Speaker 1: anyone that has information regarding the disappearance of ROBERTA. Snyder,
49:06
Speaker 1: please call Benton County Sheriff's Department seven three one two
49:11
Speaker 1: seven nine four two eight zero, seven three one two
49:15
Speaker 1: seven nine four two eight zero Nancy Grace Crime Stories,
49:21
Speaker 1: signing off, goodbye friend,