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SMNTY Classics: The History and Growth of Women's Magazines · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: And Samantha.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff Never Told You, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: And today we are bringing back a classic that was
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: kind of a two-parter. We've already brought back the second
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: part of it.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Was it two or like four?
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: It might have been four. Knowing you, who was spearheading these,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: it could have been.
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, but we're talking about magazines and the growth of
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: magazines in this classic.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes. So we are back in the season, you know, fall,
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: beginning of school, where decoration are happening. We got first
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: the photos with the cute first day of school pictures.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: You got to make it picture perfect. We got Halloween
• 0:54
  Speaker 3: and fall. No, we have fall first. You know, got
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: to get those leaves. Then we have Halloween, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: And one of the reasons we started talking about this
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: is because this kind of really was pushed out by
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: magazines such as Southern Living, in which we are going
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: to talk about in this episode. And because of that,
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: I thought, hey, this is perfect. Let's begin this new
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: school year, autumn time, whatever you want to call it,
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: with this classic. So hope you enjoy it. And yes,
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: listen to the other parts because we got like three
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: more parts to this.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: And Samantha.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: And welcome to Stuff Mom Never Told You, a production
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: And welcome, y'all. This is our first full episode, isn't it,
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: of the year?
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: It is. It is.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: And I am not off to a great start because
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: what I originally had planned versus what we have versus
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: what it has extended to, of course, this is my job, y'all. Anyway,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: but yes, we are happy to come back and do
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: finally a full episode after being on vacay slash also
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: being sick. Really weird start to the year. But... You know, recently,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: I think we actually mentioned how we had some great
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: conversations with people in our lives, specifically about gender roles
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: and how traditions and expectations have really structured our internal
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: judgment of ourselves. And what we think traditions should look like. Specifically,
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I was talking with my partner's mother who has some
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: amazing stories of how she was able to overcome sexist
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: bias in her industry and in her life overall. She
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: is a Georgia Tech alum, so one of your people's
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: A & Es. She was one of the first in
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: the pharmacy program and graduated. She was super young, too.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: Really huge accolades to her. She did some amazing things.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I remember when we were talking, my face just kind
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: of was like, what? What? Because she was just talking
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: about everything she was involved in. And I was like,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: she was really paving some ways for a lot of
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: women in a very technical school. And she was even
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: told by her father she would never get in because
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: she was like, it's a school for dudes. What are
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: you doing? But she did. She graduated and she became
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: a pharmacist, which is amazing in itself. But also one
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: of the things that we also talked about while we
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: were there was about Southern Magazines because Southern Holiday time.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: We all know that there's a lot when it comes
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: to preparing for the holidays. We've talked about this. We've
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: complained about this. And I have told you I would
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: never do it. I'm over it. I haven't even started it.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to do it. Okay. But she talked
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: about how she grew up reading Southern magazines, specifically one
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: we will talk about later, Southern Living, and how she
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: was really taught this is the way you were supposed
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: to be as a woman. That everything you see in
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: this magazine, if you want to be a perfect, successful
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: woman in the South, this is what you follow. And
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: my mother was very close to that. In fact, my
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: house had tons of Southern Living magazines. Did you have
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: any of those?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I don't remember if we had Southern Living. My mom
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: definitely has... Still has a stack of magazines. I don't
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: know how old they are. But they were very much
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: in the same vein of, like, decoration ideas. recipes, advice,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: things like that. So I don't know if I had
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: that specifically, but generally, yes.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Generally, something like that. And there are so many more.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: This magazine is so, so successful that it's one of
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: the highest-grossing magazines for Time, Inc. So Time Magazine's Time, Inc.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: bought it not too long ago, I don't think. And
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: the amount that they make is unbelievable. unbelievable especially being
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: that it's only literally localized to the south so I
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: think it was based out of Alabama it may be
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: still not sure but they circulate over I believe 2.8
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: million copies and that was in like that's a low number.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: I think at one point in time, they were acquired
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: by time magazine for $ 498 million in 1985. So like they,
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: they made it magazine. They made it. They're huge. Um,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: and some of the other publications that time owns is
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: sports illustrated and it literally ranks up there with them
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: for how much they make.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: Um, yeah.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: And, If you've ever visited a waiting room in the South,
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: you've probably seen it yourself. If you need an example,
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you can find it at the grocery store.
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: Is it available nationally? Okay.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Well, I don't know about nationally, but I've seen it
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: in the grocery store.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: If you come into the South, you have seen it.
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: There are so many replicates of it. Guns and Gardens,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: as in fact, the person, I believe the old editor
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: of Guns and Gardens is now the new editor of
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Southern Living. It's been featured by so many. They are
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: a standard. And when I tell you when it comes
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: to holidays, they go all out and people want this
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: magazine and try to replicate this magazine. I have seen
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: bloggers that have tried to replicate the perfect Southern Christmas,
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: as they call it, and it's based off of Southern
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: living traditions. And so when she actually brought up that
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: magazine was talking about how it really affected her and
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: her feeling like she has to keep up with the
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: standard and really try her best. And she was, unlike
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: my mother, a working woman. So she was a pharmacist
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: at the same time that she was raising her children,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: doing all these things and trying to be the perfect
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: Southern woman and making sure she kept the perfect Southern
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: home and make sure that Christmas was a Christmas wonderland.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: And again, I know we've talked about that. our own parents.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: You do some things with your parents, your mother. But
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: like my mother goes all the way out. And one
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: day I'm going to have to take pictures because the
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: way she has like themed areas, not one theme, but
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: themed areas with two Christmas trees, three Christmas trees. So
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: she goes all out. And my partner's mom was talking
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: about the fact that she was like, yeah, this year
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I've started to learn this was not healthy and I'm
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: not doing it anymore. And I'm scaling back. I'm scaling back. Oh,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: and by the way, her scaled back, quote unquote, of
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: Christmas decorations is still ten hundred times more than I
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: have ever tried. Like, I walked in, I was like, what?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: It looks great. It's very pristine and pretty. And like,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, look at all this Christmas stuff.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: And she's like, this is scaled back. And I was like, wow.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: I wonder what it used to look. I wonder if
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: it used to be like on par with my mother
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: with things in every room. Who knows? And of course,
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: just a disclaimer here, because I've been thinking about this previously, right?
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: Loving Christmas and the holidays and going all out. We're
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: not trying to tell anyone that that's a bad thing
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: or criticizing that at all in that way. If you
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: love it, keep doing it. I love seeing it. I
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: literally met, went to one of our neighbor's house and
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: she has so many holiday. I mean, she had, I
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: think we counted 12 trees. Like, not all of them
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: were full size, but they were decorated and they were everywhere.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: And she was so excited to show it off. And
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: it was beautiful. And she was so excited about talking
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: about all of them and just like how she loves Christmas.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, that's amazing. I wish I was that person.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I want to be that person. How do I become
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: that person? So doing that makes you happy. Please know
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: that we are happy for you. We're just pointing out
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: that most of the time, these types of activities are
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: typically women's responsibilities and often add more labor and work
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: for women. And much of the past media would only
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: deep the idea that being a good housewife would be
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: that they would make their home, again, like a winter wonderland,
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: that they were obligated to do so and to not
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: do it would be a failure as a wife and
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: a mother. So, again... Some of these things are amazing
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: and we love it and I love to see it.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: And if you love it, that's amazing. So please know
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: we are not saying not to do it. We're just
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: saying there's also that flip side. And a lot of
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: the times these types of magazines perpetuate this. But go
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: moving on. We do with all of that in this
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: conversation and in the spirit of coming back to work.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: we did what we do best. We went down the
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: rabbit hole of the history of women's magazines and how
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: they have influenced us over the years. And as an ex-millennial,
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: and when I say ex, I mean like Generation X,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: because I'm I'm still very confused by this, that went
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: to school before the use of the internet. And we
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: used magazines and encyclopedias as our references for actual projects.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: We literally knew how to do the bibliography with that. Yeah. Yeah.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I read through so many teen and 17 magazines growing
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: up and even collected a few. Not as many as
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: I think you might have, Annie. Did you have a
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: lot of magazines growing up?
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know that I have as many
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: as you think. I was Adventure Time. Okay. Was that
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: the magazine?
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Disney Adventures. Oh, I knew Adventureland, right? think it was
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: a zoo magazine.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: It was like towards kids and then i did get
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: entertainment weekly but i usually just did it for like
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: the actors i liked okay i i was thinking about
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: this the other day i had a really creepy shrine
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: to ryan gosling and i would take like the cuttings
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: from magazines and put them in this reese's box.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Interesting.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: I'm going to describe it to you in great depth
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: later because it's really funny, but I will prevent myself
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: from embarrassing myself. So here.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, I have a feeling that might be on our
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: next episode.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: I will share. I will share.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: But yeah, like you had a few. I didn't get
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: any subscriptions as a kid. Of course, my mom had,
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: like I said, had some magazines. I did get some
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: like National Geographic magazines. I'm not really sure why. I
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: don't know who handed them down. And apparently some of them,
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: like the older ones, are worth money. I don't know.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Maybe that's an eBay thing. I don't know. And of course,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: like you, I didn't necessarily cut out to put them
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: in a box, but I did do collages.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: And you have to have like... You know, I didn't
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: do the ransom letter thing. That's too much. You know
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: how you cut up random letters. But, you know, I
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: think I did like my dream something and it was
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: all like magazine cutouts, essentially. So, yeah. So we went
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: to this. So just as a disclaimer, some of the
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: things we're talking mainly about the history of it, of
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: magazines and specifically women's magazines. Again, at the end of it,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: we are going to kind of talk about Southern Living
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: because I did want to bring it back to it
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: because it's mainly subscribed by women. women um and it
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: was geared towards women so we're going to talk about
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: that we are going to do another episodes but i
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: think we're going to push it back because it's going
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: to be somewhat related to the the reese's box and
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: ryan gosling shrine of uh magazines today including teen magazines
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: so just as a big arc of like it's not
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: a series i'm not doing this again annie i swear
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: to god i'm.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Not yeah This is your New Year's goal. No more
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: 12-part series. Okay.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I do want to revisit some of the magazines and
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: subscriptions today. But again, this is mainly about the history
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: of it. And I don't think there's any content warning necessary,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: but you know, It's the history of magazines, and when
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: it comes to history for things that are geared or
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: consumer-driven towards women, who knows?
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Maybe just.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Condescending language, perhaps.
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes. Lots of condescending language, a lot of consumerism,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: a lot of... We do talk about race even, so,
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: you know, there's a whole thing, I guess, but not
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: too triggering like our past episode, so..
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: Here we go. Yes. All right. So when it comes
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: to the overall history of magazines, it is, of course,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: a little bit murky. Most of the historical timeline for
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: magazines starts at the invention of the printing press. But
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: pamphlets and leaflets were used before that in countries like
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: China and around the world. But going by the invention timeline,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: shall we say, the first magazine to ever be published
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: was the German magazine, in English translated, I'm not going
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: to attempt it, Edifying Monthly Discussions, which was published around 1663.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: I was telling Samantha I've had four years of German.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: I don't have the courage today to attempt it. And
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: this was quickly followed by French published magazines titled Journal
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: des Scavans, or later known as Journal des Savants in 1665,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: And in that same year, England would publish The Philosophical Transactions.
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: And many more followed after that.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Obviously. According to a Britannica article, these journals, quote, summarize
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: important new books, but there are as yet no literary reviews.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Book advertisements by about 1650, a regular feature of the
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: news sheets, sometimes had brief comments added and regular catalogs
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: began to appear, such as the English quarterly Mercurius Laborarius.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm doing a spell. Or a catalog
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: of books, which was published 1668 and 1670. But in
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: the 17th century, the only periodicals devoted to the books
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: were short-lived and The Weekly Memorials for the Ingenious, which
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: was published 1682-83, which offered some critical notes on books.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: And the Universal Historical Bibliotheque, which was from January to
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: March in 1686. The latter invited scholarly contributions and could
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: thus be regarded as the true forerunner of the literary reviews.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: So this is kind of what was beginning. Right.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: And according to the same Britannica article, they say the first, quote,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: periodical of amusement, or lighter reads, if you will, was
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: possibly started in 1672. They write, quote, the Mercure Galante,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: renamed Mercure de France in 1714. It was founded by
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: the writer Jean Donneau de Vizet and contained court news, anecdotes,
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: and short pieces of verse, a recipe that was to
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: prove endlessly popular and become widely imitated. And of course,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: this would all lead up to the beginning of magazines
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: specifically targeted to women. As the article writes, quote, in 1693,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: after devoting some experimental numbers of the Athenian Mercury to, quote,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: the fair sex, Dunton brought out the first magazine specifically
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: for women, the Ladies' Mercury. So let's talk about how
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: successful these experiments were. Right.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: So much like today, all of the material and content
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: that was seen at the beginning of the women's magazine
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: era reflected what was happening during the time. As the
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Britannica article writes, quote, women's magazines frequently reflect the changing
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: view of women's role in society. In the 18th century,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: when women were expected to participate in social and political life,
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: those magazines aimed primarily at women were relatively robust and
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: stimulating in content. In the 19th, when domesticity became the ideal,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: they were inclined to be insipid and humorless. After about 1880,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: magazines began to widen their horizons again. And in 1770,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: one of the noted first women's magazine, and I'm going
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: to put a disclaimer here, this is listed as the
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: first one to be published. But we know that the
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: dabbling began much earlier, so not the actual first women's published,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: but the one that is most often listed and credited
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: as the first. It was the British magazine, The Ladies Magazine.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Very on the nose.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Here's a quote from the National Portrait Gallery about the magazine.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: The Ladies Magazine, or Entertaining Companion for the Fair Sex, London, said,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: was an early monthly periodical for women which dominated the
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: market for most of its run. It aimed to amuse
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: and improve, providing fiction, poetry, music, and social gossip, as
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: well as giving more space to fashion than its predecessors.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Its first issue in August 1770 included as its frontispiece
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: a plate titled A Lady in Full Dress in August 1770,
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: and it became the first magazine in any country to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: regularly issue plates showing contemporary fashions. The early engravings were
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: uncolored until about 1790 when hand-colored ones were included.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: And during the time following, there were several other publications
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: that came around. Here's another quote from that Britannica article. Quote,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: The New Monthly Bell Assembly, 1847 to 1870, and The
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Lady's Treasury, 1857 to 1895, all contain verse fiction and
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: articles of high moral tone, but low intellectual content. And
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: the quote continues pointing out that there are magazines that
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: had a bit more depth, but they didn't really survive.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: The article reads, there were attempts to swim against the tide,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: such as The Female's Friend, 1846, which was one of
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: the first periodicals to espouse women's rights, but they seldom
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: lasted long, right? That lasted less than a year.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: But what did come around soon after was the birth
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: of the homemaker-based and practical advice magazine for women. One
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: of the earlier provided for this type of magazine was
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the English Woman's Domestic Magazine, started by Samuel Beaton, with
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: the help from his wife, Isabella Mary Beaton. You can
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: listen to a Saver episode that I did on my
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: other podcast all about that. And her contributions would later
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: be published in her widely acclaimed book, Book of Household Management,
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: which was a collection of Isabella's work. And here's a
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: quote about that from that Britannical article. It was also
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the first women's periodical to concentrate on home management and
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: offer practical advice to women rather than provide entertainment for
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: the idle.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: For the idol. How dare you? I guess it does
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: stretch differently. So a little more detail from the National
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Portrait Gallery. It says, The Englishwoman's domestic magazine, London, published
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: by Samuel Orchard Beaton, began as the first cheap monthly
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: magazine for young middle-class women with a strong emphasis on
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: practical instructions and useful knowledge such as dressmaking, but only
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: occasional black and white engravings of French fashions. Domestic management
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: material was written by his wife, Isabella Beaton, and collected
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: as her book of household management in 1861. In 1860,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the price increased and more space was given to fashion
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: and fiction, with colored fashion plates and large fold-out embroidery
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: patterns and less to instructional material, as it was directed
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: to a wealthier and more fashionable readership. Between 1862 and 1864,
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: both Schilling and Sixpedia editions were issued, the first with
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: a fashion and fiction supplement, but from January 1865, the
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: supplement was absorbed into the magazine. The Parisian fashion plates
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: and imported were by Jules David, first issued in La
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Menteur de la Mode. Yeah, no, I did that wrong,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: but we're going to go on. One was included every month,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: and then when the magazine merged with the Milliner, Dressmaker,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: and Wirehouseman's Gazette in 1877, it continued to issue David's
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: plates until it ceased publication in 1881.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: There were and are many of these types of magazines
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: in the U.S. They are still with us today. Some
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: of the first magazines include Harper's Bazaar, which was started
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: in 1867, and the Goodies Ladies Book, which started in 1830.
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: And the Goodies Ladies Book actually had 150 women employed.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: to hand-tint fashion plates. Previous episodes, we've mentioned them before.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: And in this group of magazines, also, we can include
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: the Ladies' Home Journal. And here's some information about that
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: from Wikipedia. It was first published on February 16th, 1883,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: and eventually became one of the leading women's magazines of
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the 20th century in the United States. In 1891, it
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: was published in Philadelphia by the Curtis Publishing Company In 1903,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: it was the first American magazine to reach one million subscribers.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And the Britannica article writes, the field of women's magazines
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: was finally transformed, however, by Cyrus Curtis with his Ladies'
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Home Journal, founded 1883, edited by his wife Louisa Knapp Curtis.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: This soon reached a circulation of 400,000 and under the
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: editorship of Edward W. Bach from 1889, broke with sentimentality
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: and piety to become a stimulating journal of real service
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: to women.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: So the history of this magazine is pretty fascinating. We
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: have stories of editors, men, writing op-eds to oppose the
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: women's suffrage movement, saying things like, quote, a vision of
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: the women at home living the simple life and having
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: many more saying that women are enemies to themselves.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: So I was like, oh.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: That's nice. And then women employees, I believe this was
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: in the 1970s, were having sit-ins to demand a woman editor.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: And by the way, it didn't work. But they did
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: get their own section, which according to Wikipedia says, they
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: wanted the magazine to recognize a wider variety of choices
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: for women's lives, as well as give greater attention to
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: women's issues such as sexual discrimination and abortion. Other activists
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: continue to protest and seem to have achieved some success.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: They may not have liberated the ladies' home journal, but
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: they did help change perception of how the media could
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: portray women's lives, according to one source. And it is
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: something to note that the first editor of this magazine
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: was a woman, the wife, Louisa Knapp Curtis, but she
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: was there for less than a year, and it was
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: then taken over by the dude who really did not
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: like the women's suffrage movement.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: With the growth of women's magazines, there was what was
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: called the Seven Sisters, which was a group of women's
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: magazines that targeted women with husbands and children and were
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: to assist homemakers at the time. Within this list that
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: we can include the original Ladies Home Journal magazine, but
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: also Family Circle, McCall's, Red Book, and three that are
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: still circulating today, Better Homes and Gardens, Women's Day, and
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Good Housekeeping. Which, yes, speaking of good housekeeping, the magazine
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: actually started in 1885, which is more than a century ago.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Here's a little bit about the magazine from an article
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: from mylifetime.com. On May 2nd, 1885, the first issue of
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: Good Housekeeping Magazine was published. Founded by Clark W. Bryan
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: in Holyoke, Massachusetts, the stated mission of the magazine was
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: to produce and perpetuate perfection, or as near onto perfection
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: as may be attained in the household.
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: Right. And the article continues, since early on, good housekeeping
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: took its mission of producing and perpetuating perfection in the
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: household seriously. In the late 19th century, the magazine published
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: groundbreaking articles about food safety and advocating for consumer protection.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: As early as 1887, Good Housekeeping reported on topics ranging
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: from watered-down milk to candy contamination with asbestos. And yes,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: they actually still have the Good Housekeeping Institute today. So
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: this thing exists. Here's a bit of information from Good
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Housekeeping themselves. Quote, founded in 1900, the Good Housekeeping Institute
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: was at first called the Good Housekeeping Experiment Station. The
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: invention of electricity had introduced many new labor-saving home appliances,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: but few consumers had any real knowledge of their operation
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: and maintenance. With the goal of studying, quote, the problems
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: facing the homemaker and to develop up-to-date firsthand information on
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: solving them. The staff at the GH Experiment Station tested
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: products and housekeeping methods and published articles about their discoveries
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: and observations. They also reprinted advice from readers who wrote them.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: One reader offered a cure for calluses. She used olive
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: oil and cotton. Another reader advised about how to launder
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: lace drapes. And another gave tips about the best way
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: to clean a meat chopper. Yeah.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I would also offer this reminder. This is before the
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: time of the internet. And if you listen to our
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: episode of Betty Crocker, this is really important. If you
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: were lonely in the kitchen and you didn't know what
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: to do, you would read something like this and be like, oh, okay.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: And you felt less alone and you had these instructions.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: You couldn't just go online and be like..
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: YouTube has saved many of us from some disasters.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: Exactly. And confusion.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, but... Beyond just observing, at one point in the
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: early 1900s, Good Housekeeping made some huge controversies through their institute.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: As the institute was getting bigger and their reputation was
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: rising with the promise of testing and giving seals of
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: approvals for different foods and products, that bled into advertisements
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: that the FTC would claim were exaggerated and false. And
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: that the magazine was making, quote, misleading and deceptive guarantees.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: And this would lead to a lawsuit that would take
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: two years to get through and even had competitors from
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: the Seven Sister Group testifying against the magazine. The magazine
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: did drop tested and approved from their seal, but it
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: didn't really stop their growing popularity. And also, this continues
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: to be a point of contention. And again, you can
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: see the Savor episode we did about that. Maybe we
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: should just.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Publish it on ours.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: We should.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I think we should.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: We should. What company did that? They did the diabetes...
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Good for your heart health. And it changed the way
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: we advertise. Cheerios? I think it is, but it's got
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: to be their parent company.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: But yes, yes. Whatever it was that was, like, good
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: for your heart. General Mills, right?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: Something, yeah. But anyway.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: Keep going.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: Yes, here is another quote from Good Housekeeping. Concerned about
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: adulteration and misbranding, home economist on staff also tested foods
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: for purity and published, starting in 1905, a Roll of
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Honor for Pure Food Products each month. All this testing
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: at what was now called the Good Housekeeping Institute resulted
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: in December 1909 with the beginning of the tested and
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: approved list of all household products that were found to
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: meet the Institute's standards of excellence. Good housekeeping seal became
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: so well known that it has become part of the
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: lexicon with celebrities, governments, manufacturers, basically everyone using it. And yeah,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: as you can see, they did not include the tidbit
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: about the lawsuit here.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: Right. Found that interesting. I was like, huh, they still
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: said the seal. And you know what? They do some
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: big claims here. And here's what's happening with the institute today,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: according to their site, quote, Today, the Good Housekeeping Institute
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: is located in the Hearst Tower in New York City
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: and staffed by chemists, biologists, nutritionists, engineers, home economists, and
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: culinary experts who evaluate thousands of consumer products each year
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: from microwave and mascaras to vacuums and towels. These reviews
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: are highlighted in the magazine and online. When products are
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: evaluated for the good housekeeping seal and the green good
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: housekeeping seal, which both represent good housekeeping So... Very consumer-like.
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I like it.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: I don't like it. Actually, I just need to go
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: back and look and see if I've bought any of
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: those things, even though it wasn't based on there. Wait,
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: I can't say that out loud, can I? Then I
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: won't get a refund. Oh, no.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: Well, we can't have that. And unsurprisingly, it took a
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: while for the magazine industry to change its trajectory, and
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: it didn't have any women editors until 1994. The first
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: six editors out of nine were all men, Though since
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the first in 1994, the rest of the editors have
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: been women. So before we move on to localized magazines,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: we did want to note some of the past advice
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: from this magazine and giving credit where credit is due.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: The magazine recognized their own icks and published an article
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: titled The Good Wife's Guide to Helping Her Husband Succeed
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: at Work. The article begins with a disclaimer saying, in
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: our 130 years of publishing, we featured all kinds of tips, recipes,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: and personal stories. Some smart advice still stands the test
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: of time. Others, well, not so much. Presented here with
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: no further comment is a feature from the January 1956
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: issue of Good Housekeeping. The basic premise, a hiring manager
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: offers his tips to a wife for helping your husband
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: succeed at work. Enjoy.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, this is also where we'll be like, yeah, this
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: is going to make you a little angry, but also
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: maybe make you laugh because you're like, what the hell?
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: So here's some excerpts from that article. We employers realize
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: how often the wrong wife can break the right man.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: This doesn't mean that the wife is necessarily wrong for
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: that man, but that she is wrong for the job.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, more often than is realized, the
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: wife is the chief factor in the husband's success in
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: his career. In the first place, she has a very
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: definite effect on a man's spirit. And then the article continues...
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: If a man has a peevish, nagging wife, if she
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: is jealous and possessive, if she is lazy or overambitious
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: or extravagant, that man is going to be unhappy. And
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: his unhappiness will interfere with his concentration on his job.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: In the case of an important executive, this lack of
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: concentration can affect the outcome of a business conference. It
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: may even kill a profitable deal. Oh, dear. Wow.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: So here is some advice that they listed off. A
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: good wife is friendly. A good wife's primary interest is
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: her husband, her home, and her children. And here are
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: some specifics to that. A good wife is there when
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: her husband needs her. She must be his sounding board.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: She must be able to listen patiently without giving advice.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: She must have the knack of commenting without interfering. Sometimes
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: it may be necessary for her to make sacrifices for
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: the sake of her husband and his business career. She
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: cannot be free to do this if she is dedicated
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: to a career of her own.
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Ew, Annie. Yeah, don't have a career of your own.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: This is why you're single.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: You're right.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: And then they go on and add the bad wife things.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: And so it includes being a complaining woman, a dominating woman,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: and the wife in a rut. And y'all... we have
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: to talk about this wife in a rut. And you
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: might be like, well, what is that? Well, they are, quote,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: pathetic little creatures is just out of her element. She
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: is self-conscious, nervous, and awkward. Her taste in clothes is
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: usually pretty bad. Her conversation centers on babies and how
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: to wash the kitchen floor. 10 or 15 years ago,
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: she may have been the pretty little girl on Maple Street.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Her husband has become a man of the world, but
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: she is still on Maple Street. Oh, no.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: At least it's not Elm Street, eh?
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Y'all, I mean, again, kudos to Good Housekeeping for understanding
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: how bad this was and also being able to call
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: themselves out on it. So, hats off to them, but damn.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like I connect with this wife in a rut.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, if all her life she's supposed to
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: be at being the perfect mom, what else is she
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: going to talk about but the child and how to
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: clean the floors?
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily a wife of anything, but I sometimes
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: talk about how to clean the floors.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Right. My clothes are bad. It's cold. I don't care.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I am definitely awkward. So how dare you, sir?
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Exactly. Jeez Louise.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Yes. It's such solid advice from the 1950s. But you know...
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: We don't know this. Good housekeeping wasn't the only ones
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: perpetuating this type of idea. And even more so, there
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: are magazines that were published more locally, like the one
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: that we were talking about earlier, Southern Living. And we
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: did want to kind of talk about what they have done,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: what they represent a little bit of, the good and
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: the bad, I think, in it. Eventually, I think we
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: want to talk about the recipes from this, but we'll
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: come back to that. If you've ever, again, as we
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: told you earlier, if you travel through the South, and
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not talking about Florida, probably Florida, but more Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi,
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: South Carolina, Tennessee, and those areas, and beyond, Southeast area,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: you have seen this magazine. The glossy picture of an idealistic,
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: decorated-to-the-tee home. It's like Martha Stewart is the designer of
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: this place, and it's all over the covers, just crisp
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: and clean. And inside are articles on how-tos and the
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: best recipes. And they even had floor plans. Like, they
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: had some amazing floor plans to the point that it
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: kind of started trends all over the South on what
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: kind of homes were being built. And when it comes
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: to the holidays, unmatched, y'all. Like, I can think of
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: one magazine with this tree that had a very, like, Southern...
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: I think it says Country Christmas is what it was called.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Of course, there's also a Country Living, now that I
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: think about it, magazine. I forgot about that one until
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: just now.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Not a miniseries, you say?
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to talk about it. But it's quite interesting,
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: these magazines, and they're very well printed and very prettily
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: put together. And again, I believe many of the older
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: boomer generations of women were haunted by the need to
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: follow suit of these perfectly decorated trees and such. Again,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: my mom had full on themed Christmas trees. I think
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: one was like French country Christmas. One was like an
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: old traditional, that's what she would call it, because we
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: would have our old school children's ornaments that we loved
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: in one tree. So it was like she had to
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: distinguish the two. And they were trying to be the
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: ultimate decorators of their pristine, very pretty Southern homes. And again,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: we've talked about how our mothers will go all out
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: for every season of the year to decorate. Again, my
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: mom has like apple-themed wreaths that go for the fall,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Easter-themed wreaths that go for spring.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Like, it's a thing.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: And it goes from the front of the house. I mean,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: from the minute you walk up to the porch, again,
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: the wreaths, to the guest rooms, to the living rooms,
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: to the bathrooms, it's all there. And it's in part
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: to these magazines.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Right. Well, this publication originally came out in 1966. It
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: was published by the Progressive Farmer Company, which was the
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: publisher of the Progressive Farmer magazine. And this lifestyle magazine
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: is still one of the most subscribed to magazines. Here's
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: a bit about them from their own site. It was
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: for an article celebrating their 50th anniversary in 2016. Southern
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Living is descended from the Progressive Farmer magazine, which has
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: roots in Raleigh and dates back to 1886. Southern Living
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: was spun out of that magazine's Lifestyle and Home Wife section.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: which was popular among suburban housewives. The magazine has 2.8
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: million subscribers with about 14,000 who have been subscribers for
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: five decades.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: A large proponent of the magazine was the many different
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: recipes featured in the magazine. In fact, they started an
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: annual recipe book in 1979 and have been publishing them
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: ever since. Here's what they say on their website. The
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: 1979 edition of Southern Living Annual Recipes, which has sold
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: well over 21 million copies since its first printing, was
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: just the beginning. The popularity and reliability of Southern Living Recipes,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: coupled with the steady flow of comments, questions, and suggestions
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: from readers, led to a highly successful extension for the brand.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: This annual cookbook has been published every year since.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: I want to say my mother would cut out these recipes.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: And I think... I have what I call like the
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: uh hillbilly taco salad which you've had before yeah it's
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: good like it's very odd that i think she got
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: from there and i think it was in sponsorship with
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: rice-a-roni which is what i use in this y'all.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Yes so many recipes were like companies being like here's
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: how you can eat bananas and there's a whole book
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: of banana recipes but my mom has that too she
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: has a recipe box and just has like these cutouts
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: and they're like all folded and you can't read all
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: No.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: She got from magazines.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: I think I tried to do a homemade cake with
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: fudge icing for my mother for that. The cake did
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: not turn out so well. The icing was delicious, though.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: Well, there you go.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: But, you know, with the things that were happening, and
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: this is what the appeal is, and many of the
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: women have followed suit and still, again, still subscribe. Man,
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: five decades worth for thousands of people for this magazine.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: And I guarantee my mom has been probably a part
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: of that because she Like I said, I had it
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: as a child and I'm around 40 now, 40s, in
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: my 40s now. So knowing that she's had it for
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: that long. But the book has a lot of criticism
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: as well, including the glaring fact that the magazine was
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: based out of the South and at the time ignored
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: the racism and racial violence that was happening there. in
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: that time period and in that area. Some of the
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: articles point out the fact that this magazine existed during
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: one of the most heated times of the civil rights
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: movement and ignored the issues around them and that it
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: was proof enough that this magazine and a lot of
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: magazines like it whitewashed and overall completely refused to acknowledge
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: the issues that were happening. A specific researcher, and I
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: believe she was a student at the time, Summer Hill Vincent,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: wrote about this for her dissertation titled Whitewashing Southern Living,
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: the Sociocultural Significance of the 1966 Magazine Launch in Birmingham, Alabama.
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: And in her paper, she writes about the issues of
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: how a still popular magazine hasn't really been studied when
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: it comes to their place in history during the civil
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: rights movement. Here's a quote from that. Historian James Cobb
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: explained that the whitewashing of history in Southern living occurred
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: in the aftermath of the Civil Rights Movement when white
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: Southerners scrambled to find an identity that was unique but
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: unrelated to racism. Quote, for many of them, that search
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: seemed to begin at the very end of the Civil
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Rights era with the cleverly pleasing pages of Southern Living magazine.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: He argued that it was no accident that a magazine
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: for white Southerners launched in the later years of the
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Civil Rights Movement. And it goes on, that mirage hid
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: so much pain, as American Studies professor Alan Toulouse explained
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: in the 1979 article, Azalea Death Trip. Not only are
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: the historical rich folkways given an eye-catching or sentimental treatment,
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: which ultimately trivializes them, but sanction is given to a
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: way of looking at life, which eliminates its unpleasant, tragic realities,
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: its historical burdens, and its future obligations. By looking the
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: other way, the magazine endorsed a lifestyle that romanticized reality
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: and let white Southerners off the hook for their role
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: in the events taking place around them. Of course, this
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: is just a small snippet from that article, from that dissertation.
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: And I think it's a lot in conversation because there's
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: also a lot of identity put into magazines like this
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: and why mediums like this was so important. And when
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: we come back and talk about magazines' effects today, we
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: will talk about the fashion industry, and even the political
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: ideas behind it. But things like this have a huge
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: cultural impact. And again, as Annie was saying previously, this
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: was before the internet. This is how news traveled and
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: or what you thought other people were doing as well.
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: They might not be you, but they're out there because
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: you see this in this glossy, beautiful magazine saying that
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: you should be making these recipes and ignoring everything else.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: There's even articles talking about how they ignored and didn't
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: have many Black community members as featured in any of
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: the articles, featured in any of the celebrations or any
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: of the conversations in this magazine, which was supposed to
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: celebrate all of the South at that time. There was
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: a recent article about how there needs to be a
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: reckoning for Southern living. And I say recent, I mean,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: the last 10 years, because they were still featuring things
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: like plantations and showing tours about plantations and how they
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: ignored the history behind it just to show pretty pictures
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: of that property and making money. offer that property. And again,
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: not acknowledging what had happened there, what was going on there.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: I think at one point in the article that they
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: did talk about the fact that one of the editors
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: were like, no, no, no, we featured Black people, look.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: And it was like a handful, possibly a few times.
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: And there's a lot to say in that conversation. There's
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: also an article, which Annie, I told you about previously,
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: and I cannot not share. I'm not going to read
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: it necessarily, but I found it really, really funny because
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: there's a man complaining about how southern living has lost
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: its way and i was like wait what's happening um
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: and his complaint was the fact that it no longer
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: featured recipes it no longer featured like helpful guys or
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: how to's instead it was now trying to sell you
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: things or it was trying to uh tell you how
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: to be a better woman this way like sex life
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: but how to have a better sex life and all
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: these things and though he had a point i still
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: was like i don't know if i want to take
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: this I'm just saying, he's not wrong. Yeah. But I
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: don't feel like this is his place to say. I mean,
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: anyone can enjoy any of those things. But it's odd
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: to be like, you are teaching women better things. Go
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: back to that. Yeah. Yeah.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: It is strange. And I think one of the things
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: when we come back, whenever that will be, probably February
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: with the next part, We've talked about before on this show,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: I think past host Kristen and Caroline definitely talked about it,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: but you know that with the internet, the magazine industry
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: has been in flux. There has been a lot of
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: pressure of how they're going to survive. I personally feel
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: like magazines are sexual luxury. I usually only get them
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: if there's Star Wars on the cover.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Or, I.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Don't do this, but my friends, when we go to
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: the beach or something, we'll get magazines. But otherwise, so
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: it's sort of an interesting... space they're in but there
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: are we also you should go listen um to our
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: old fanzine episode because there are places where it's like
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: really niche and it's growing so it's not that it's
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: gone away it's definitely a huge place for advertising i
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: will say right um but it it's a lot of
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: these big magazines that have been around for so long
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: are kind of questioning like well What are we now?
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: How do we keep going? What is this?
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: And we're going to talk about this for sure when we...
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: It's not part two. I'm refusing to call it a
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: part two for the other episode that we were going
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: to do that's somewhat related to this about the whole
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: virtual magazines or how it is no longer in press
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: necessarily and is now all online. And what does that
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: look like? And then also talking about paywalls. And is
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: that a good thing? But how else do they make money? Advertising,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: I know, but this is back and forth. And why
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: do I find it irritating to pay for a subscription online?
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: when I would have been willing to buy a magazine.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: That's my own brain here. But again, who is affected?
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: Who isn't affected by this? Who is being targeted? Who
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: is being marketed to? But also, how is it still
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: making changes in society? Because again, a local regional magazine
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: that likes Southern Living has impacted society pretty deeply. And
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: the same thing with all the other magazines we talked about,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: like as they have, thank God, transformed or hopefully are
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: transforming into being better messages for women and more inclusive,
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: I would hope, and less heteronormative. But, you know, like
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: what kind of impact they had on so many young women,
• 47:46
  Speaker 2: older women, so many of the things, expectations that it held.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: And yeah, and what we bought because of it, like,
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: At one point in time, TikTok did not exist and
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: I was not influenced by TikTok. I was influenced by
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: magazines telling me I needed to go get this. Yeah.
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: And a lot of those recipes would be like, hey,
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: you want to make this aspect? Guess what? You're going
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: to need this gelatin mold. Here's where you can get it.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Here's this.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Let me show you.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Yes. You could send in your little mail-in coupon thing
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: and they will send.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: It to you. I also clip coupons out of magazines.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Memories.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: What a world. Memories.
• 48:20
  Speaker 2: What a world.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: Memories um well do watch out for our next follow-up.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: We'll do a follow-up a valentine's day follow-up that's what i.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: Thought it's gonna be a related follow-up and i will
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: open the box on my ryan gosling shine and it's
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: you're gonna laugh it's very embarrassing but in the meantime
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: listeners if you have any thoughts about any of this
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: if you still have any magazines or memories about magazines
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: fanzines you can let us know You can email us
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: at stephaniemomstuff at iheartmedia.com. You can find us on Twitter
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: at momstuffpodcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I've
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: never told you. We have a TeePublic store and we
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: have a book that you can get wherever you get
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: your books. Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina,
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: executive producer, Maya, and our contributor, Joey.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: And thanks to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: You is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.