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Hell and Gone Murder Line: Larry and Josh Schulman · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

0:46
Speaker 1: School of Humans. Helen Got Murder Line actively investigates cold
0:52
Speaker 1: case murders in an effort to raise public awareness invite
0:55
Speaker 1: witnesses to come forward and present evidence that could potentially
0:58
Speaker 1: be further investigated by law enforcement. While we value insights
1:03
Speaker 1: from family and community members, their statements should not be
1:06
Speaker 1: considered evidence and point to the challenges of verifying facts
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Speaker 1: inherent in cold cases. We remind listeners that everyone is
1:14
Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
1:17
Speaker 1: Nothing in the podcast is intended to state or imply
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Speaker 1: that anyone who has not been convicted of a crime
1:24
Speaker 1: is guilty of any wrongdoing. Thanks for listening.
1:29
Speaker 2: On August twenty first, twenty seventeen, seventy year old Larry
1:33
Speaker 2: Shulman was sleeping in his upstairs bedroom at his home
1:37
Speaker 2: on outer Bridge Lane in the Providence Commons Area, an
1:40
Speaker 2: affluent suburb of Charlotte, North Carolina. Providence Commons is a
1:45
Speaker 2: quaint area in South Charlotte. It's located off a highway,
1:49
Speaker 2: Glenn McConnell Parkway, and it only has six streets. It's
1:53
Speaker 2: a quiet little neighborhood, but that was about to change.
1:58
Speaker 2: Larry was on his own in the bedroom. That night,
2:00
Speaker 2: his wife, Andrea was out of town on a trip
2:03
Speaker 2: to New Orleans, where she was visiting family. And his
2:06
Speaker 2: twenty five year old son Josh, also lived at home,
2:09
Speaker 2: but Josh was out for the night with friends. Josh
2:12
Speaker 2: worked behind the bar at an upscale steakhouse, the Capitol Grill.
2:17
Speaker 2: Larry said that he went to bed at around nine pm,
2:21
Speaker 2: then at some point later in the evening, Josh came
2:24
Speaker 2: back home and went to bed. Then at around three am,
2:29
Speaker 2: Larry was woken up in a daze. He found someone
2:32
Speaker 2: on top of him brutally beating him with a gun.
2:36
Speaker 3: So I was sound asleep as I could be, and
2:40
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, somebody was hitting me in the
2:43
Speaker 3: forehead pistol, whipping me and yelling where's the safe, where
2:48
Speaker 3: are the watches, where's the money? Stuff like that. It's
2:52
Speaker 3: all swelled motion for me, and I'm crying and he
2:55
Speaker 3: puts me on the ground. He puts the gun on
2:58
Speaker 3: my shoulder, my back shoulder, and choots me. And then
3:04
Speaker 3: I had one of these things and I fell and
3:07
Speaker 3: I can't get up. I pushed the button and yelled
3:09
Speaker 3: at the machine, get the police, get the police up,
3:12
Speaker 3: and shot up and shot up and shot.
3:17
Speaker 2: The machine Larry was referring to was a life Alert system,
3:20
Speaker 2: which is a medical alert device targeted at seniors. It's
3:24
Speaker 2: usually worn around the neck. This device became very famous
3:28
Speaker 2: after advertisements in the early two thousands. Larry's medical device
3:32
Speaker 2: was wired so that if he pressed a button, he
3:35
Speaker 2: was immediately connected to life alert personnel. He could notify
3:39
Speaker 2: the police in the event of an emergency. So that's
3:42
Speaker 2: what he did. He pressed his life alert button and
3:45
Speaker 2: the gunman took off. But Larry soon realized he wasn't
3:49
Speaker 2: the only victim in the house. Down the hall. His
3:54
Speaker 2: son Josh had also been shot.
3:57
Speaker 3: I did not hear Josh being shot, so then I
4:01
Speaker 3: went to the phone and called the police and myself
4:04
Speaker 3: and they said, no, we know, we're on our way.
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Speaker 3: We're almost at your door. And so I crawled out
4:11
Speaker 3: of the room and we were on the third floor
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Speaker 3: and I looked to the left and there's Josh in
4:20
Speaker 3: his T shirt underwear laying on the ground and he
4:24
Speaker 3: takes a deep press. I never heard his shot and
4:30
Speaker 3: he was shot in the head.
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Speaker 2: I'm Catherine Townsend. Over the past eight years of making
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Speaker 2: my true crime podcast, Helling Gone I've learned that there's
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Speaker 2: no such thing as a small town where murder never happens.
4:44
Speaker 2: I have received hundreds of messages from people all around
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Speaker 2: the country asking for help with an unsolved murder that's
4:50
Speaker 2: affected them, their families, and their communities. If you have
4:54
Speaker 2: a case you'd like me and my team to look into,
4:56
Speaker 2: you can reach out to us at our Helen Gone
4:58
Speaker 2: Murder line at six seven eight seven four four six
5:02
Speaker 2: one four five. That's six seven eight seven four four
5:06
Speaker 2: six one four five, or you can send us a
5:09
Speaker 2: message on Instagram at Helen Gonepod. This is Helen Gone
5:15
Speaker 2: Murder Line. This case is still classified as an open investigation,
6:04
Speaker 2: which means that our FOY request has not been answered yet,
6:08
Speaker 2: so we're still trying to get exact details of what
6:11
Speaker 2: went down that night. Was this a robbery gone wrong
6:14
Speaker 2: or mistaken identity or could the killers have been targeting
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Speaker 2: Larry or Josh or both, and if so, why Josh
6:24
Speaker 2: was in the hallway outside his bedroom when Larry saw him.
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Speaker 2: It's not clear whether he was shot there or whether
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Speaker 2: the paramedics moved him out into the hallway to administer
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Speaker 2: first aid. Larry can't be sure. Still in a daze.
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Speaker 2: Larry looked on in horror as he realized he was
6:43
Speaker 2: watching his son Josh, take his last breast.
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Speaker 3: And then I kind of pulled myself down the stairs
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Speaker 3: and opened the door, and they came running in with
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Speaker 3: the ambulances and stuff and the stretchers, and they're yelling
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Speaker 3: the guy upstairs his words, the guy upstairs his work.
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Speaker 3: So they take him and take his both to the hospital.
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Speaker 3: I grabbed my cell phone. Andrew was in New Orleans,
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Speaker 3: and I called her and I told her what happened,
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Speaker 3: and then they just took us to the er. One
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Speaker 3: of the er doctors came in to see me and
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Speaker 3: he said, your son is a lot worse than you.
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Speaker 2: It's not even clear who got shot first, Larry or Josh.
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Speaker 2: WSCTV did an interview with Larry in twenty twenty two,
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Speaker 2: and in that interview, Larry said when he pressed the
7:36
Speaker 2: life alert button, he heard another shot in the hallway,
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Speaker 2: which the news channel said must have been the second shot,
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Speaker 2: one that killed Josh. One year after the shootings, Larry
7:48
Speaker 2: told WBTV quote, I never saw anybody. He had total
7:53
Speaker 2: control of me, but I heard a shot down the hallway.
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Speaker 2: They shot my son in the head. The bullet came
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Speaker 2: out the other side, went through the floorboard three floors
8:02
Speaker 2: down and came out in the kitchen, So they had
8:05
Speaker 2: to have held him down and shot him in the
8:07
Speaker 2: head end quote. So in some of these previous interviews,
8:12
Speaker 2: Larry said he did in fact hear the gunshot that
8:15
Speaker 2: killed Josh, but when we spoke with him, he told
8:18
Speaker 2: us he did not hear the gunshot. Of course, memories,
8:22
Speaker 2: even traumatic ones, can fade and shift over time, and
8:26
Speaker 2: because the killer immediately started berating him, Larry was more
8:31
Speaker 2: focused on staying alive than paying attention to his surroundings.
8:34
Speaker 2: He wasn't able to get a good look at the gunman,
8:37
Speaker 2: so police had no description of the suspect to go on.
8:41
Speaker 2: But Larry does wonder why other than a few things
8:45
Speaker 2: that he says the killers grabbed in his room, they
8:47
Speaker 2: didn't steal anything else. Since the person beating him was
8:51
Speaker 2: demanding to know where the watches were and the safe were.
8:55
Speaker 2: It was all very strange, but Larry says that he
8:59
Speaker 2: believes that it's likely that his life alert and hearing
9:02
Speaker 2: someone say the police were on the way saved his life.
9:06
Speaker 3: I was on the ground shot and he left the room.
9:10
Speaker 3: Now you know, they didn't take anything. So when the
9:14
Speaker 3: voice came on, we're sending the police, were sending the police.
9:18
Speaker 3: Could that have frightened them in some way? I don't know.
9:22
Speaker 2: That was another big question because the Shulmans lived in
9:26
Speaker 2: a big house and had lots of nice things inside,
9:29
Speaker 2: and yet absolutely nothing of value was stolen. According to Larry,
9:34
Speaker 2: this home invasion did not seem to fit the pattern
9:38
Speaker 2: of other home invasions that had taken place in that area.
9:42
Speaker 2: So what happened? Did the home invaders realize they had
9:45
Speaker 2: the wrong spot or did they not count on Josh
9:48
Speaker 2: and Larry being home and then things got out of control?
9:54
Speaker 2: Could Josh have been the target? Larry said that everyone
9:59
Speaker 2: loved Josh. He was gregarious and very popular At his
10:02
Speaker 2: high school, Charlotte Latin School. Josh was a pretty serious athlete.
10:07
Speaker 2: He played football, basketball, and baseball. After high school, Josh
10:12
Speaker 2: went to the University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa. He joined
10:16
Speaker 2: the ZBT fraternity. He seemed to thrive there. He made
10:19
Speaker 2: lots of friends. His obituary described Josh as quote a caring, loving,
10:24
Speaker 2: generous soul who never met a stranger. He enjoyed the
10:28
Speaker 2: company of many lifelong friends, including furry friends. Josh loved
10:33
Speaker 2: all animals, particularly dogs, and they loved him. End quote.
10:38
Speaker 2: According to his obituary, Josh liked to play fantasy football,
10:42
Speaker 2: to hang out with his friend and watch football games
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Speaker 2: with his family. One year after Josh's shooting, Larry talked
10:50
Speaker 2: to a local news station about what he remembers from
10:53
Speaker 2: earlier in the day of the home invasion, which he
10:55
Speaker 2: said he replays constantly for any clue to the horrors
10:59
Speaker 2: that were coming, but what Larry described seemed like a
11:03
Speaker 2: very routine day. On the day of Josh's murder, Larry
11:07
Speaker 2: said that he and Josh talked. He remembers them having
11:10
Speaker 2: a conversation about sports, which they did a lot because
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Speaker 2: Josh loved sports, and Josh had told him he was
11:17
Speaker 2: going to come home early that night because he said
11:19
Speaker 2: he had an interview the next day. Then Larry said
11:23
Speaker 2: that he talked to his mother on the phone and
11:25
Speaker 2: went to bed. Larry did say that Josh's job put
11:29
Speaker 2: him into contact with a lot of different people, and
11:32
Speaker 2: the police had been asking Larry questions about Josh's friend
11:35
Speaker 2: group at the time. Larry said the family didn't have
11:39
Speaker 2: a ring camera or any kind of surveillance. In twenty seventeen,
11:44
Speaker 2: ring cameras were definitely around, but I'd say they were
11:47
Speaker 2: still a few years away from having the type of
11:50
Speaker 2: mass saturation they have now where it's just kind of
11:52
Speaker 2: assumed almost everyone has one. But again, because this is
11:56
Speaker 2: still an open investigation, we don't have concrete details about
12:00
Speaker 2: this case. We don't know whether police canvass and ask
12:04
Speaker 2: neighbors if they had cameras that could have seen something
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Speaker 2: that night. Police were also mystified as the motive because
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Speaker 2: there was no sign of forced entry into the home.
12:14
Speaker 2: Larry said, Josh often left the back door unlocked.
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Speaker 3: My son often would go on the patio at night
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Speaker 3: and leave the door unlocked in the back, and I
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Speaker 3: think they just came straight into the back door. There
12:26
Speaker 3: was no sign of breaking in.
12:30
Speaker 2: Though Charlotte does have crime and property crime, South Charlotte
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Speaker 2: is one of the safest areas in the city. It's
12:37
Speaker 2: known for excellent schools and a low crime rate, so
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Speaker 2: this home invasion shocked the neighborhood. Larry, who was being
12:46
Speaker 2: treated for a shot to the scapula in the same
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Speaker 2: hospital where his son had been rushed, remembers the doctors
12:51
Speaker 2: giving him the heartbreaking news that Josh was not going
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Speaker 2: to survive. And then just as he was processing that
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Speaker 2: information that Josh, his only son, was dead, tragedy struck
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Speaker 2: again because the next day, Larry was told that his mother,
13:08
Speaker 2: Dorothy Shulman, had died.
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Speaker 3: The day after this happened, my mother, who was an
13:13
Speaker 3: hospice in her apartment, died. We had a funeral that
13:19
Speaker 3: following Friday for my mother and my son. It was
13:24
Speaker 3: standing room only. My parents had lived there since nineteen
13:28
Speaker 3: fifty four, and they were just well loved and liked
13:33
Speaker 3: people in the Jewish community. And my son was an
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Speaker 3: athlete and a good student and also loved so for him.
13:42
Speaker 3: I was basketball coaches and different teachers and all his
13:46
Speaker 3: friends all that were there. One guy gave the eulogy,
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Speaker 3: and my mother and my son were the same. They
13:57
Speaker 3: had the ability to make people feel better about themselves,
14:03
Speaker 3: so there was a lot of very grateful people there.
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Speaker 2: Josh opted to be an organ downer, so even though
14:11
Speaker 2: Josh was legally dead and brain dead, he was kept
14:14
Speaker 2: on life support for the next three days so that
14:17
Speaker 2: the doctors could harvest his organs. Eventually, Josh's organs would
14:21
Speaker 2: be given to six different people saving lives. A few
14:27
Speaker 2: days after the funerals of his mother and son, grief stricken,
14:32
Speaker 2: Larry said that he and his wife were called to
14:34
Speaker 2: the police station. They were expecting answers or maybe closure.
14:39
Speaker 2: Larry was shocked to discover police considered him their number
14:43
Speaker 2: on the one suspect. A few days after Larry Shulman's
14:58
Speaker 2: only son, Josh, was fatally shot during a home invasion,
15:02
Speaker 2: Larry said that he and his wife, Andrea, were called
15:05
Speaker 2: in to the Charlotte Mecklenburg police station. Larry said he
15:09
Speaker 2: expected to hear that police were pursuing a suspect and
15:12
Speaker 2: was stunned to discover the person of interest that police
15:16
Speaker 2: were focused on was him. The reason police suspected him,
15:20
Speaker 2: Larry said, was because of a family trust that had
15:23
Speaker 2: been set up by his mother. Larry was Dorothy's only son,
15:28
Speaker 2: Josh was her only grandson. Larry's father had already passed away,
15:33
Speaker 2: so police somehow believed that if Josh died, Larry would
15:37
Speaker 2: inherit that money instead, and apparently police believed Larry might
15:42
Speaker 2: have orchestrated Josh's murder in order to collect Larry said
15:46
Speaker 2: the police's belief there could have been a financial motive
15:49
Speaker 2: just didn't make any sense, because he said his mother
15:53
Speaker 2: was a wealthy woman and she left her estate to
15:55
Speaker 2: him to Larry. Larry claimed that Josh could only have
16:00
Speaker 2: collected if Larry died. Larry said that law enforcement had
16:04
Speaker 2: their financial facts backwards. He believed that unfortunately influenced the
16:10
Speaker 2: direction of the case.
16:12
Speaker 3: So they're asking me questions, and then it was obvious
16:18
Speaker 3: the questions were leading toward them accusing me of murdering
16:22
Speaker 3: my son. My family was a wealthy family, and there
16:26
Speaker 3: was a trust involved that my mother lived on and
16:31
Speaker 3: I was the next beneficiary in the trust. Somehow, in
16:35
Speaker 3: their convoluted ways of thinking, they thought like me, having
16:40
Speaker 3: Josh killed would give me the trust, which is really
16:43
Speaker 3: the opposite. So then I came to have it there.
16:46
Speaker 3: I said, so either arrest me or let me leave,
16:49
Speaker 3: and they said, well you can leave.
16:52
Speaker 2: Larry worked as a psychotherapist who specialized in trauma and
16:56
Speaker 2: grief skills that he needed to get through the brutal
16:59
Speaker 2: reality of what occurred. On August twenty first, Larry hired
17:03
Speaker 2: a private investigator, who he said was a former FBI
17:06
Speaker 2: profiler to help him get answers. Police immediately concluded they
17:12
Speaker 2: did not believe this was just a random home invasion
17:15
Speaker 2: gone wrong. They believed the home invaders were targeting someone
17:19
Speaker 2: in the home. That could have been partly because of
17:21
Speaker 2: the time that the crime happened three am. This is
17:24
Speaker 2: a very high risk time. It's not like coming in
17:27
Speaker 2: during the day when you believe people could be at work.
17:30
Speaker 2: Coming in at that hour, it's very likely someone will
17:34
Speaker 2: be in the house. The home invaders had to know
17:37
Speaker 2: that if they did have a target. Another theory that
17:41
Speaker 2: has to be considered is what if the time target
17:44
Speaker 2: wasn't Larry but Josh. Police have said very little publicly
17:49
Speaker 2: about the investigation, but in twenty eighteen, on the one
17:52
Speaker 2: year anniversary, Detective Antonio Eccles told WBTV quote, it was
17:58
Speaker 2: a breaking and entering end quote, but then he wouldn't
18:02
Speaker 2: specify if any items were taken. Police did say at
18:06
Speaker 2: that time they did not recover the murder weapon. Detective
18:10
Speaker 2: Eckles said, quote, We've been interviewing a lot of people,
18:13
Speaker 2: a lot of people that were close to the family,
18:15
Speaker 2: a lot of people that were close to Josh, a
18:18
Speaker 2: lot of people he worked with hung out with end
18:21
Speaker 2: quote that does make it seem like police considered the
18:25
Speaker 2: possibility that the home invaders could have been acquaintances of Josh.
18:29
Speaker 2: But again, there's so much mystery surrounding this case. We
18:33
Speaker 2: don't have a description of the gunman or women. We
18:36
Speaker 2: don't know how many people were in the house that night.
18:39
Speaker 2: Larry said he believes there were at least two home
18:41
Speaker 2: invaders who came in and attacked and shot him and Josh,
18:45
Speaker 2: but a lot of that was still a blur, so
18:48
Speaker 2: he doesn't know for sure. Larry said the private investigator
18:52
Speaker 2: he hired looked into Josh's friends. Josh was very social,
18:56
Speaker 2: so he had a big social circle and also just
18:59
Speaker 2: had a lot of contact through his job at the
19:01
Speaker 2: Capitol Grill with the public in general. So one theory
19:05
Speaker 2: could be maybe someone knew that Josh lived in a
19:08
Speaker 2: nice house with a lot of expensive things and decided
19:11
Speaker 2: to break in, or maybe one of Josh's friends knew
19:15
Speaker 2: he had a habit of leaving the back door unlocked.
19:18
Speaker 2: Larry said he does remember one particular friend of Josh's,
19:22
Speaker 2: someone who came into the hospital on the night Josh
19:25
Speaker 2: was killed.
19:26
Speaker 3: There was a friend of my son who came drunk
19:29
Speaker 3: to the hospital that night. He was the last person
19:33
Speaker 3: to see Josh alive. They were really descriptan sees between
19:38
Speaker 3: what he said when he said he left Josh and
19:41
Speaker 3: what he told the police row what that means. That
19:45
Speaker 3: may mean something. There was some thought that my son
19:49
Speaker 3: was involved in something, that that people had it out
19:53
Speaker 3: for him and this was a hit of some kind.
19:56
Speaker 3: Now I don't believe that, and then my detectives didn't
19:59
Speaker 3: and I talked to all this friends and stuff like
20:03
Speaker 3: that he wasn't up to anything.
20:05
Speaker 2: Larry claimed that because the police were so focused on him,
20:10
Speaker 2: he believes they missed many opportunities to find out who
20:14
Speaker 2: was really responsible for his son's death, and because they
20:17
Speaker 2: treated him like a suspect, police were not giving Larry
20:21
Speaker 2: as much information about the developments of the case as
20:24
Speaker 2: they could have.
20:25
Speaker 3: Then there was a rumor, you know, this was this
20:28
Speaker 3: was a rumor in town that my gambling debts, that
20:31
Speaker 3: the gamblers had this happen. I'm a psychotherapist, I'm not
20:36
Speaker 3: a gambler. Just crazy shit. So we started having these
20:41
Speaker 3: TV interviews and we're having giving this one interview for
20:46
Speaker 3: mothers of murdered people. And this was on the ABC
20:49
Speaker 3: station and they interviewed the other mothers, and while I'm
20:53
Speaker 3: in this room with all the other fathers, their experience
20:58
Speaker 3: with the police was, Yeah, they're giving us all this information,
21:02
Speaker 3: They're following this, they're following that it self phenomenally supported.
21:07
Speaker 3: I have not yet heard from the police on their
21:11
Speaker 3: own in these nine years now.
21:24
Speaker 2: A natural question and one that I asked was how
21:28
Speaker 2: could police think that Larry shot himself in the back.
21:32
Speaker 2: This was one of their assumptions, since police apparently believed
21:36
Speaker 2: Larry could have been responsible for the murder of his son.
21:39
Speaker 2: Larry believes that police considered the possibility that he hired
21:43
Speaker 2: a hitman. He was talking to us about the Alec
21:46
Speaker 2: Murdock case. He said that in the Carolinas stranger things
21:50
Speaker 2: have happened.
21:52
Speaker 3: You know. This was at the same time, shortly after
21:55
Speaker 3: that guy Murda on South Carolina he killed the Nami lady.
22:00
Speaker 3: He had somebody shoot him in the head. I have
22:03
Speaker 3: no history of deviant behavior or criminal behavior.
22:09
Speaker 2: Another possibility that Larry considered was could the killers have
22:13
Speaker 2: come into the wrong house, especially since they were asking
22:16
Speaker 2: about safes and watches Larry said the family didn't have.
22:21
Speaker 2: Larry said someone had moved into the house next door
22:24
Speaker 2: shortly before the murder of his son, and that he
22:27
Speaker 2: had been getting their mail and vice versa. Could this
22:30
Speaker 2: whole thing have been a case of the killers mixing
22:34
Speaker 2: up the wrong address and getting the wrong house. I
22:38
Speaker 2: was looking at photos of Larry's house, and like I
22:41
Speaker 2: said at the top, the Providence Commons neighborhood. It only
22:44
Speaker 2: has six streets. A lot of the houses have a
22:47
Speaker 2: similar vibe, but they're not all identical. Still, some of
22:51
Speaker 2: them do look very similar. It is possible that the
22:54
Speaker 2: home invaders had the wrong address. Then again, maybe they
22:58
Speaker 2: just went around trying doors until they found one that
23:00
Speaker 2: was open. But if that's the case, why did they
23:03
Speaker 2: specifically ask for watches in a safe? Was that just
23:07
Speaker 2: random or did they think the Shulman's had these specific
23:10
Speaker 2: things in the house, And if so why? Normally home
23:15
Speaker 2: invaders who target specific homes have information that the people
23:18
Speaker 2: there have something they want. The most common items home
23:21
Speaker 2: invaders target first are cash, expensive jewelry, and gold, followed
23:26
Speaker 2: by electronic devices like cell phones that can be wipe clean,
23:29
Speaker 2: and prescription drugs. Back in the day, home invaders tended
23:34
Speaker 2: to take things like TVs and computers, but the resale
23:37
Speaker 2: market for those items has plunged, Plus they are really
23:40
Speaker 2: hard to carry, so those are not the items of
23:42
Speaker 2: choice anymore. The set of circumstances of this home invasion
23:46
Speaker 2: actually most closely matches very targeted robberies. When the home
23:52
Speaker 2: invaders go into a house where they know the person
23:56
Speaker 2: inside has a lot of cash or high value items,
24:00
Speaker 2: they want those items, and they are willing to use
24:03
Speaker 2: extreme violence to get what they want fast. The home
24:07
Speaker 2: invaders asked Larry where's the safe? They went in at
24:11
Speaker 2: a time when they knew he would be in bed vulnerable.
24:14
Speaker 2: They clearly believed they needed him in order to get
24:16
Speaker 2: what they wanted. It's also interesting that the angle of
24:19
Speaker 2: the bullets shows that Larry and Josh were shot while
24:23
Speaker 2: lying down, So the home invaders made a deliberate choice
24:27
Speaker 2: to go into two bedrooms to confront these two men,
24:31
Speaker 2: rather than just grabbing stuff lying around and leave. That
24:35
Speaker 2: could mean they believed there was something hid in Larry's
24:37
Speaker 2: bedroom like a wall safe. People often hide cash or
24:40
Speaker 2: valuables in their room. Most home base take place when
24:44
Speaker 2: the home is empty, which is what the people stealing
24:47
Speaker 2: things normally prefer because it's much less risky. These killers
24:51
Speaker 2: chose to go in at three am. They chose to
24:54
Speaker 2: stay once they knew there were people upstairs, and then
24:56
Speaker 2: they chose to confront them both and to use lethal force. Finally,
25:02
Speaker 2: even though according to Larry, he was cooperating, the home
25:06
Speaker 2: invaders fatally shot Josh and shot him and they got
25:10
Speaker 2: nothing of value in the end. Larry told the news
25:14
Speaker 2: station WBTV that one theory he considered was that a
25:18
Speaker 2: new neighbor, someone who moved in a few weeks before
25:20
Speaker 2: Josh was shot, might have been the actual target. He said, quote,
25:25
Speaker 2: by some of the questions the guys were asking me,
25:27
Speaker 2: the assailants, I wondered whether they just had the wrong house,
25:30
Speaker 2: and that the moving company movers had seen something in
25:33
Speaker 2: that guy's house because I didn't have the things they
25:36
Speaker 2: were asking about. But the police have checked that out.
25:39
Speaker 2: The house is very identical end quote. However, Larry said
25:44
Speaker 2: that the private investigator he hired looked into that possibility
25:48
Speaker 2: but found nothing that would indicate the house next door
25:51
Speaker 2: had those kind of valuables either.
25:54
Speaker 3: Just shortly before that, somebody moved into the home next door,
25:58
Speaker 3: and I thought maybe they were looking for that home.
26:01
Speaker 3: My detective followed up on that, and they didn't have
26:04
Speaker 3: a safe. I didn't have a safe. But we did
26:08
Speaker 3: live somewhat of an affluent lifestyle, and you know, Josh
26:12
Speaker 3: worked at the bar of Apital grill restaurant. He was
26:15
Speaker 3: part of the late night world. He had nice things,
26:19
Speaker 3: you know.
26:21
Speaker 2: So according to what Larry told us, it seemed as
26:24
Speaker 2: though the PI dropped that lead, but police seemed completely
26:29
Speaker 2: focused on Larry as a suspect, he says, because he
26:32
Speaker 2: inherited that money. So with the help of the private investigator,
26:36
Speaker 2: he started doing some of his own investigation. In twenty eighteen,
26:42
Speaker 2: a year after the shooting, Larry's family publicly stated there
26:45
Speaker 2: was a reward in effect. In addition to the five
26:48
Speaker 2: thousand dollars that was pledged by crime stoppers, the Shulman
26:51
Speaker 2: family put in ten thousand dollars of their own, for
26:54
Speaker 2: a total of fifteen thousand dollars. Larry told us that
26:58
Speaker 2: Josh was shot with nine millimeter bullets, which can be
27:01
Speaker 2: used in a lot of different kinds of weapons, from
27:04
Speaker 2: handguns to submachine guns, so that doesn't seem to narrow
27:08
Speaker 2: it down a ton. Unfortunately, both bullets traveled in a
27:11
Speaker 2: downward path from the third floor, where Larry and Josh
27:14
Speaker 2: were sleeping, to the first floor. Josh was only shot
27:18
Speaker 2: once in the head, which probably means he was either
27:22
Speaker 2: lying in bed when he was shot or that he
27:24
Speaker 2: was held down, But we don't know what direction the
27:27
Speaker 2: blood spatter was in, if there was blood left behind,
27:30
Speaker 2: or even if Josh was shot in bed or in
27:33
Speaker 2: the hallway by the way. There is also the possibility
27:37
Speaker 2: that this was completely random. People do sometimes die in
27:41
Speaker 2: botched home invasions, but this one seemed more intentional in
27:46
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. In twenty twenty four, the FBI issued
27:50
Speaker 2: warnings about burglary tourists who targeted wealthy suburban neighborhoods. They
27:55
Speaker 2: were frequently linked to South American theft groups. Data from
27:59
Speaker 2: the FBI reads quote, these sophisticated, often out of state
28:03
Speaker 2: or transnational crews specifically target high end homes, scouting them
28:07
Speaker 2: for valuable such as cash, jewelry, luxury handbags, and firearms
28:11
Speaker 2: end quote. But then the FBI goes on to say
28:14
Speaker 2: these gangs normally surveil their targets and tend to pick
28:18
Speaker 2: times when they're not home. They also use things like
28:21
Speaker 2: signal jammers to jam up the Wi Fi and alarm systems,
28:24
Speaker 2: which didn't seem to happen here because, again, Larry said,
28:27
Speaker 2: they did not have that type of security back then.
28:30
Speaker 2: The South American gangs have been most active in California,
28:34
Speaker 2: but cases have also been reported in Michigan, Indiana, Texas,
28:38
Speaker 2: and North Carolina. There have also been other home invasions
28:42
Speaker 2: that have made headlines in Carolina in twenty twenty six,
28:46
Speaker 2: including one recent case where the perpetrators tied up their
28:50
Speaker 2: victims and tortured them, Which brings me to another fact
28:54
Speaker 2: about Larry's case, and we talked about this briefly with
28:58
Speaker 2: Matt Stewart's case. A couple of weeks ago, someone came
29:01
Speaker 2: into Larry Shulman's house. They demanded certain items, but the
29:06
Speaker 2: killer didn't give Larry a chance to really respond. They
29:09
Speaker 2: just started beating him. They didn't do what some of
29:13
Speaker 2: these other home invaders have done and tie him up
29:15
Speaker 2: or try to get information out of him. They just attacked.
29:21
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty, Larry told WCNC news police were being
29:25
Speaker 2: more communicative with his family. Larry said he felt that
29:30
Speaker 2: the reason why the case hadn't been solved was because
29:32
Speaker 2: police were so focused on him as their suspect, he
29:36
Speaker 2: said he was happy that police were taking another look
29:39
Speaker 2: at the case. In twenty twenty three, six years after
29:43
Speaker 2: josh murder, Andrea and Larry met Gloria Lindsay, the woman
29:47
Speaker 2: who'd gotten Josh's heart, on what would have been Josh's
29:51
Speaker 2: thirty first birthday. Gloria said, quote, I really wanted to
29:55
Speaker 2: meet them and just to let them hear his heartbeat,
29:58
Speaker 2: just to let them know that a part of him
30:00
Speaker 2: is still alive. End quote. Understandably, Larry did not look
30:06
Speaker 2: at the crime scene. His wife, Andrea came back from
30:09
Speaker 2: New Orleans to Charlotte to be by his side at
30:11
Speaker 2: the hospital, and Larry said that after that they never
30:14
Speaker 2: spent another night in their family home again. Eventually, the
30:19
Speaker 2: family relocated to Jacksonville, Florida. And now when Larry thinks
30:23
Speaker 2: about Josh, he prefers to remember the happy times rather
30:27
Speaker 2: than obsessing over how his life ended.
30:31
Speaker 3: He was a great kid. He was a great kid.
30:33
Speaker 3: I mean, people loved him. You know, there's a story
30:37
Speaker 3: in his true story. When Josh was in the ninth grade,
30:42
Speaker 3: they were a three guy that came to the school
30:45
Speaker 3: and you know it was a clique et, preppy kind
30:48
Speaker 3: of school, and these guys came and they were kind
30:51
Speaker 3: of sitting by themselves separately, and he went over to
30:55
Speaker 3: each each of these kids and said, come on, sit
30:59
Speaker 3: at my table, Sit at my table, be part of things.
31:03
Speaker 3: And he was just a welcoming, welcoming kid.
31:08
Speaker 2: But Larry said he still hopes that someday someone will
31:12
Speaker 2: come forward with a missing piece of information, something that
31:15
Speaker 2: will help him get answers about what really happened to
31:18
Speaker 2: Josh and why. He has said he is not motivated
31:22
Speaker 2: by revenge or hatred. He just wants justice for his son.
31:27
Speaker 2: I want the same thing, and I am terrified on
31:30
Speaker 2: behalf of the residents of that community that this could
31:33
Speaker 2: happen again and that the killer or killers are still
31:37
Speaker 2: out there. There is currently still an active fifteen thousand
31:41
Speaker 2: dollars reward in effect if anyone has any information that
31:45
Speaker 2: could lead to the apprehension of Josh's killer or killers.
31:48
Speaker 2: The number for crime Stoppers if you have any information
31:51
Speaker 2: is seven O four three three four one six zero zero.
31:56
Speaker 2: I'm Katherine Townsend. This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen
32:01
Speaker 2: Gone Murder Line is the production of School of Humans
32:03
Speaker 2: and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and narrated by me Catherine
32:07
Speaker 2: Townsend and produced by Etily's Perez Special thanks to Amy
32:11
Speaker 2: Tubbs for her research assistance and James Wheaton for legal review.
32:15
Speaker 2: Noah camer mixed and scored this episode. Our theme song
32:18
Speaker 2: is by Ben Sale, Executive producers of Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr,
32:22
Speaker 2: and L. C. Crowley. Listen to Helen Gone ad Freed
32:25
Speaker 2: by subscribing to the iHeart True Crime Plus channel on
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Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts. If you were interested in seeing documents and
32:31
Speaker 2: materials from the case, you can follow the show on
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Speaker 2: Instagram at Hell and gonepod. If you have a case
32:38
Speaker 2: she'd like me and my team to look into, you
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