Latest / Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories / Star Thrower With Dr. Freda Brazle | Ship's Log 17

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Star Thrower With Dr. Freda Brazle | Ship's Log 17 · Project Candor: Ordinary People. Unexpected Stories

• 0:02
  Jeanne: Today I'm really glad to welcome someone I know personally and deeply respect.
• 0:07
  Jeanne: Dr.
• 0:08
  Jeanne: Freda Brazle.
• 0:09
  Jeanne: Dr.
• 0:09
  Jeanne: Freda Brazle is a global leadership strategist and transformation coach with more than 30 years of experience helping leaders navigate change across corporate and nonprofit environments.
• 0:20
  Jeanne: Her work centers on one core idea that mindset is a critical driver of performance, culture, and long-term impact.
• 0:29
  Jeanne: From Fortune 100 settings to global leadership platforms, free to partners with executives to move beyond strategy on paper and into meaningful, human-centered action.
• 0:40
  Jeanne: She blends practical strategy, storytelling, and deep cross-cultural insight to help leaders lead with clarity and purpose.
• 0:47
  Jeanne: She's also the founder and executive director of the ZLA Foundation, supporting leadership development and community growth in both Africa and the United States, and the author of Healthcare Case Management Using Big Data to Reduce Cost and Improve Outcomes.
• 1:05
  Jeanne: Freda, welcome to Project Candor.
• 1:08
  Freda: Thank you so much, Jeanne.
• 1:09
  Freda: Good to see you.
• 1:10
  Freda: It's good to see you.
• 1:12
  Freda: So on a personal note, how do we know each other?
• 1:16
  Freda: We were fortunate enough to meet on a client contract with a large wealth management institution and able to forge a relationship and have continued connecting since then.
• 1:32
  Jeanne: Yes, that's so true.
• 1:33
  Jeanne: And I am, it's especially meaningful for me today for you to be on because I've seen your leadership up close, not just in titles or credentials, but in how you show up for people.
• 1:44
  Jeanne: And I'm excited to dig in and hear more.
• 1:47
  Jeanne: Yay.
• 1:48
  Jeanne: Let's do it.
• 1:49
  Jeanne: Let's do it.
• 1:50
  Jeanne: So I'm going to start off with some questions and um then we'll go from there.
• 1:56
  Jeanne: So you have spent over three decades across Fortune 100 companies and nonprofit leadership.
• 2:07
  Jeanne: What one leadership lesson do you think executives often overlook?
• 2:12
  Freda: I would say it's creating an environment where people can feel empowered and bring their best to the table.
• 2:20
  Jeanne: That is very true.
• 2:22
  Jeanne: People do not feel empowered in this environment today.
• 2:24
  Jeanne: How would you make that happen if you're working with executives?
• 2:28
  Jeanne: How do you get them to see that that's that they need to empower the people that are doing the work for them that actually are getting the job done?
• 2:36
  Freda: Absolutely.
• 2:36
  Freda: I feel that leaders sometimes forget that the power and ability to achieve objectives really resides in the people that they're leading.
• 2:47
  Freda: And when leaders forget that and become prescriptive, a lot of the associates or employees forget to tap into their inabilities, do not feel motivated, and take a very backseat approach to how they contribute to the key objectives.
• 3:07
  Freda: And leaders need to listen.
• 3:09
  Freda: Leaders need to think hard about the most important assets, which is the people and helping them become the best versions of themselves.
• 3:20
  Jeanne: You know, I think we've had this conversation before, but not on this call.
• 3:24
  Jeanne: But um, I always say when people ask me, you know, we talk about interviews, and when when they interview a project manager, project uh executive, whatever, they always ask you about what are the failures that you have to consider in a project.
• 3:39
  Jeanne: And my first answer is always people.
• 3:42
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 3:43
  Jeanne: Because not only are people the people getting the job done and are resilient and wonderful and bring so much to the table, they're also a point of failure because um for a project, because they have vacations and family obligations.
• 3:59
  Jeanne: And an executive that doesn't consider any of that is not going to achieve his goals, his or her goals.
• 4:06
  Jeanne: I have to say her goals, because you're actually doing a lot with female executives.
• 4:11
  Freda: Yeah, and it makes the load so much lighter when you surround yourself with people that are bringing the best versions of themselves and allow them to excel in their respective responsibilities.
• 4:25
  Freda: I've seen that across the board.
• 4:27
  Freda: You know, the top reason that people leave companies or teams is because the leadership that they were receiving wasn't really aligned to what they wanted to do.
• 4:38
  Freda: And you were seeing more of that even today, where people are not going above and beyond, you know, that quiet quit aspect of people doing their bare minimum and not wanting to go above and beyond what they're supposed to do.
• 4:53
  Freda: And I think that really hurts the outcomes for any leader.
• 4:58
  Jeanne: Yeah, but I think they keep moving the target.
• 5:00
  Jeanne: I mean, it's going beyond, above and beyond, right?
• 5:04
  Jeanne: So, okay, they're in a mindset of you set your goals at the beginning of the year and you use what you did last year that you achieved to set your goals just a little bit higher, to the point that it's like, I'm never gonna make all this.
• 5:19
  Jeanne: It's like impossible to go higher and higher and higher.
• 5:24
  Jeanne: And so people don't go above and beyond because of that.
• 5:27
  Jeanne: They're like, these are unachievable goals.
• 5:29
  Jeanne: And in order for me to achieve them, I will have to sacrifice everything, my free time and everything else to get it done.
• 5:36
  Freda: You know, that narrative is actually so important, and people, leaders especially, sometimes forget that because, you know, as part of the work that I'm doing with Vistage, which is focused on creating CEOs that are better leaders, better decision makers to drive better results.
• 5:55
  Freda: There's a lot of emphasis around how the leaders show up, how they think about the people around them.
• 6:02
  Freda: And it is something that is so easily forgotten.
• 6:06
  Freda: And we remind our leaders to think hard and look around themselves because you have to have that honest communication and connection with your people, with the people that are working with you and being very cognitive of the environment that you're creating and how you as a leader show up.
• 6:25
  Jeanne: Exactly.
• 6:26
  Jeanne: That reminds me of an example I can give, and I'll see what you think about it.
• 6:31
  Jeanne: So I had a big project uh I was managing, and there were technical issues everywhere, and people were working nonstop.
• 6:41
  Jeanne: It was almost up until 10 o'clock at night.
• 6:44
  Jeanne: A lot of times we were on calls trying to fix things.
• 6:46
  Jeanne: And this didn't happen just for one week or two weeks.
• 6:49
  Jeanne: This was going on for months.
• 6:51
  Jeanne: And um we had a major issue that we were working through.
• 6:56
  Jeanne: And on a Saturday morning, everyone was getting up to make sure that we had corrected that issue.
• 7:02
  Jeanne: So when we got on the call, I had to make sure everyone had shown up.
• 7:05
  Jeanne: Well, everyone showed up, including the executive.
• 7:08
  Jeanne: But in the background of the executive, we heard a soccer game going on.
• 7:11
  Jeanne: Oh, wow.
• 7:12
  Jeanne: The rest of everybody else was sacrificing their time with their kids and their time with their families or whatever things that they wanted to do.
• 7:20
  Jeanne: But there, the executive probably thought, well, I'm still dialing in, but I'm at a soccer game, but I'm still spending that time with my team.
• 7:28
  Jeanne: Wow.
• 7:29
  Jeanne: It was so unaccepted by the team, honestly, that they heard her, you know, kids playing soccer and her dialing this thing in.
• 7:38
  Jeanne: You know, it just it just hurt.
• 7:40
  Jeanne: It really hurt the team a lot.
• 7:42
  Jeanne: What do you think?
• 7:43
  Freda: That's very demoralizing.
• 7:45
  Freda: And it's really the shadow that you're casting that leaves that impression on associates, especially when they're putting aside Saturdays to support the goals, and the person that you're supposed to be engaging with is not as engaged as their expectations around their leaders and the people that are working for them.
• 8:06
  Freda: So unfortunately, it's that aspect of yourself.
• 8:09
  Freda: When you are a leader, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard.
• 8:13
  Freda: And you have to do what you expect others to do.
• 8:16
  Freda: And it's something that a lot of leaders, they expect people to do things, but they're not willing to do that as well.
• 8:23
  Freda: And that's the whole part of self-reflection for leaders, asking themselves, how am I showing up?
• 8:28
  Freda: So unfortunately, for that particular leader on a Saturday to be half present and half disconnected doesn't really jive very well.
• 8:38
  Freda: In actual fact, you know, it's that whole aspect of putting in on a Saturday when you're not necessarily getting paid for that Saturday work, but you're trying to drive towards the solution or whatever the problem is.
• 8:50
  Freda: You know, taking time out and encouraging your associates to also check out because you know how it is when you're running on a treadmill, you have to take a break from whatever the situation is, so that you have clarity of mind on how to think about innovative ways to addressing those problems.
• 9:09
  Jeanne: Yes, I like your answer a lot because it has always bothered me that that event happened.
• 9:14
  Jeanne: And I don't try to bring those things up all the time, but I um, you know, you are doing that kind of work to correct these problems.
• 9:22
  Jeanne: So I thought I would just give that example.
• 9:24
  Jeanne: So thank you for going over it.
• 9:26
  Freda: No, absolutely.
• 9:27
  Freda: And it's clearly left an impression on you.
• 9:29
  Freda: And those are the things that people forget is like it leaves impressions on your staff, and they're the ones that are less likely to try and really work hard at addressing problems.
• 9:42
  Jeanne: Absolutely.
• 9:43
  Jeanne: You often talk about mindset as the new currency.
• 9:47
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 9:47
  Jeanne: Can you unpack what that means in today's business climate?
• 9:50
  Jeanne: Absolutely.
• 9:52
  Freda: You know, it's that aspect of saying, what am I thinking about whether I can achieve this goal?
• 9:58
  Freda: What am I thinking and where am I in terms of being able to take that inner aspect of yourself and your capabilities?
• 10:08
  Freda: A lot of times, you know, growing up, we hear I can't do this.
• 10:11
  Freda: And it starts from when you're very, very young.
• 10:14
  Freda: You're two-year-old, you want to do something.
• 10:15
  Freda: No, you can't do that.
• 10:17
  Freda: So your mind gets conditioned to thinking that you can't do certain things, where this whole aspect, I'm a huge fan of Carol Doike with the growth mindset and the fixed mindset and understanding the neuroplasticity of our brains and how we can think differently about how we do things.
• 10:34
  Freda: So for me, when I start thinking about leadership, you know, leadership is one aspect, but more importantly, when you uncover and start putting the onion, it's really the mindset behind that person and what they think they're capable of doing and not doing.
• 10:49
  Freda: And it allows me to start asking myself what aspect of cognitive abilities do we have as people?
• 10:59
  Freda: And it's across the board.
• 11:01
  Freda: It's good to have that growth mindset.
• 11:03
  Freda: It's good to think about how do I address problems?
• 11:06
  Freda: Am I fixed in coming up with solutions?
• 11:09
  Freda: Or is there an opportunity for me to start thinking about situations differently and being able to overcome them?
• 11:15
  Freda: So, yeah, mindset for me is a big currency.
• 11:19
  Jeanne: Okay.
• 11:20
  Jeanne: So that brings me to the next question.
• 11:22
  Jeanne: When leaders come to you feeling stuck or overwhelmed by change, what are the business mindset shifts you usually help them make?
• 11:29
  Freda: Oh, yeah, you know, it's interesting how a lot of the challenges that we have, we as leaders kind of like know what the answer is within ourselves.
• 11:41
  Freda: What's important is how we are looking at the different perspective of that particular situation.
• 11:48
  Freda: So when a leader comes up to me feeling stuck, the question is first of all, determine what are you feeling stuck about?
• 11:57
  Freda: We uh all as people, as human beings, always create uh limitations around what we can and cannot do.
• 12:05
  Freda: And so when somebody is stuck, it's that aspect of saying, why do you feel you're stuck?
• 12:11
  Freda: What are the other opportunities that can help you address this challenge?
• 12:16
  Freda: And how do you reframe what your issue is and what the opportunities are?
• 12:22
  Freda: And at times you may not feel like you have the right skill set.
• 12:26
  Freda: So you ask yourself, you know, if somebody was coming and they have a tax problem and they're feeling overwhelmed, the tax problem.
• 12:32
  Freda: The question then becomes who do you know or who can you tap into that's a resource that can help you?
• 12:38
  Freda: Because there isn't any time going to be somebody who knows everything that they have solutions for every single challenge.
• 12:47
  Freda: So it's that ability to know what your skills are, what your strengths are, and where you need support to overcoming those huge challenges where you feel overwhelmed.
• 12:57
  Jeanne: Right.
• 12:57
  Jeanne: Second set of eyes always.
• 13:00
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 13:00
  Jeanne: I don't think it's a little deeper than that, but that's always helpful to me to always ask someone else that can see where I'm stuck.
• 13:08
  Jeanne: And so that's a good service that you're offering to people.
• 13:12
  Freda: I'll add on to that part.
• 13:14
  Freda: You know, one of the most exciting aspects of being a VISTA chair is we create an environment where CEOs can be together.
• 13:24
  Freda: So you don't have not only one set of eyes, you have like five, six, seven, eight, twelve other sets of eyes looking at a problem and being able to tap into these other peer advisory CEOs that can help provide those different perspectives, but also help drive you towards a solution.
• 13:45
  Freda: So they challenge each other.
• 13:47
  Freda: And that's one of the beauties of what Vistage offers CEOs that are quote unquote stuck.
• 13:55
  Jeanne: Absolutely.
• 13:56
  Jeanne: I have another question in that kind of general direction.
• 13:59
  Jeanne: Uh, you work with leaders who are technically exceptional, but sometimes struggle with people leadership.
• 14:06
  Jeanne: So how can you help them close that gap?
• 14:09
  Freda: No, and and that's that's really a common thread that we see when we get feedback from our leaders is that they're technically competent, but they are also aware that they don't have the strength of the softer skills in life.
• 14:24
  Freda: And it comes back to the CEOs that I work with and and that that I select are asking the question, what am I missing?
• 14:33
  Freda: And a lot of times when you have that humble, hungry, hardworking CEO that's looking to complement their technical skills, they're very much in that place of saying, I don't know how to best communicate, I don't know how to best market, I don't know best how to motivate my people.
• 14:53
  Freda: So give me insights and give me support systems that will allow those to complement the skills that I have.
• 15:00
  Freda: And and that's what, you know, coming back to the conversation we had early on, the people element is what's so important.
• 15:06
  Freda: But it's that CEO too that knows inherently what they're good at and what else is missing.
• 15:13
  Freda: What am I missing?
• 15:14
  Jeanne: Absolutely.
• 15:15
  Jeanne: I know that um there have been many times when you have to put together like talking points for executive leadership or for C-suite folks to just help them be able to facilitate some conversations that they're not comfortable with.
• 15:32
  Jeanne: You know, just what the people aspect is, where people are going wrong, if you're having any personnel problems, um, you know, just kind of feed them that because it helps soften how they speak to their teams, if you can actually give them those talking points.
• 15:47
  Jeanne: So as a result of that, I know that some folks have been very appreciative of that, and then they learn from that.
• 15:54
  Jeanne: And the next time they approach the problem, they actually do the same thing.
• 15:58
  Jeanne: Hey, where's my talking points?
• 16:00
  Jeanne: Where are my bullet points of you know what I'm facing here?
• 16:05
  Jeanne: And I think it's a very important thing to have those 12 sets of eyes that you have on something with your company, and it's really wonderful.
• 16:14
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 16:15
  Jeanne: So moving ahead, uh, how is your Zambian American background?
• 16:21
  Jeanne: How has your Zambian American background shaped your leadership philosophy?
• 16:25
  Freda: Oh, yeah, I know.
• 16:26
  Freda: It's um, first of all, born in Zambia, spent over 40 years in America, so it's that ability to still know where your roots are from, understanding the variety and culture, the approach to getting things done.
• 16:44
  Freda: Interestingly enough, when I speak to fellow Zambians, they look at me and they say, hmm, you're very aggressive.
• 16:51
  Freda: And I'm like, aggressive?
• 16:52
  Freda: What does that mean?
• 16:53
  Freda: And I have to laugh.
• 16:55
  Jeanne: You are not aggressive.
• 16:57
  Jeanne: I know you're the most soft-spoking and a beautiful accent, and you're just always very, very um, I don't know, mindful of everyone else, not aggressive at all.
• 17:10
  Freda: Well, thank you so much for for saying that.
• 17:13
  Freda: You know, and the whole aspect is because I look at them like, you mean assertive, right?
• 17:18
  Freda: And and they'll respond back and they're like, no, aggressive.
• 17:22
  Freda: And because in context of how women are perceived or the box that a lot of women are put in, you have to be very deliberate about how you achieve goals, but also how you communicate.
• 17:38
  Freda: Now, coming back to what's the right communication style.
• 17:41
  Freda: So bringing that into the American context, I've been trained by companies like General Electric, where you not only are being quote unquote assertive and confident, but you're also driving towards results.
• 17:56
  Freda: You don't necessarily respond too well to excuses, you find a way of helping people understand that.
• 18:03
  Freda: So balancing between the two cultures, I think, has served me well, being able to assess the environment that I'm in and knowing what characteristics or how to show up based on who my audience is.
• 18:18
  Freda: It makes you much more aware of the fact that your approach, almost like a chameleon, has to change and adjust depending on who you're speaking with.
• 18:28
  Freda: I think it served me well.
• 18:29
  Freda: And I think anybody that has been raised in a different country and has come and been able to be successful in the American culture, understand that aspect of be aware of who your audience is, be aware of how to drive towards results.
• 18:45
  Jeanne: Excellent.
• 18:46
  Jeanne: Excellent.
• 18:47
  Jeanne: So, what inspired you to start the ZLA Foundation and what impact are you most proud of so far?
• 18:55
  Freda: Absolutely.
• 18:56
  Freda: Thank you so much for asking that question.
• 18:58
  Freda: So, like I mentioned earlier on, I came to the States when I was very young, and then I went back and then I came back to go to school here in the United States.
• 19:07
  Freda: I was in school in New York City at Pace University.
• 19:10
  Freda: And I was, in all honesty, disengaged from what was going on in my country.
• 19:17
  Freda: I was so focused on the American lifestyle, the American demands, being able to navigate in corporate America, disengage from Zambia.
• 19:26
  Freda: And then somebody reached out to me and asked if I'd be interested in moving back to Zambia to take on a CEO position for one of the banks there.
• 19:38
  Freda: And I thought hard about it.
• 19:39
  Freda: I'm like, well, you know, I haven't been to Zambia for a long time, so I'm not sure.
• 19:45
  Freda: I started paying more attention to the happenings in Zambia from a corporate perspective, from a business perspective, from a political perspective.
• 19:55
  Freda: And then I also recognized that because I wasn't as engaged in Zambia prior to that, I started also paying more attention to how Americans perceive Zambians or Africans.
• 20:08
  Freda: And one thing coming from Africa is people would say, You have an accent.
• 20:13
  Freda: I'm like, no, you have the accent.
• 20:15
  Freda: So it'd go back.
• 20:17
  Jeanne: I love that.
• 20:17
  Jeanne: Oh man, I I have to stop you.
• 20:20
  Jeanne: I went to college in my home state, and there were a lot of people coming from other places in the United States, most of them coming from the northern states.
• 20:30
  Jeanne: And they used to say, You have an accent.
• 20:33
  Jeanne: I'm like, no, this is my state.
• 20:34
  Jeanne: You have the accent.
• 20:36
  Jeanne: So I love that.
• 20:38
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 20:39
  Freda: So after the accent.
• 20:41
  Jeanne: Sorry for interrupting you.
• 20:42
  Jeanne: Go back because it's a good story here.
• 20:45
  Freda: No, absolutely.
• 20:46
  Freda: So after the accent debate went on, I recognized that people were very familiar with South Africa.
• 20:53
  Freda: They were familiar with Nigeria and Kenya.
• 20:56
  Freda: Those were the countries that people were sort of like guessed, are you from Nigeria?
• 21:01
  Freda: No, because what they have, what 250 million people, you know.
• 21:06
  Freda: Are you from South Africa?
• 21:07
  Freda: I'm like, no, are you from Kenya?
• 21:08
  Freda: No.
• 21:09
  Freda: So I'd say I'm from Zambia.
• 21:11
  Freda: And I recognized that we as Zambians had an opportunity to not only uplift and share more about the country, but also there was an opportunity to change the perception that Africans slash Zambians are mediocre.
• 21:27
  Freda: So we took this whole aspect of how can we take what we have?
• 21:32
  Freda: And when I say we identified a group of Zambians, Zambian Americans and friends of Zambia that had high expectations from themselves and wanted to be a part of a group that showcased the high standard, the standard of excellence.
• 21:48
  Freda: So it wasn't too hard to find people that had that common core theme and understanding that we have to showcase ourselves.
• 21:56
  Freda: And it was around the time that Zambia was turning.
• 21:59
  Freda: From an independence perspective from colonization.
• 22:03
  Freda: And we put up an event, we fundraised, and we showcased excellence, and we showcased what Zambia had to offer the world and what Americans could tap into as it relates to Zambia as well.
• 22:17
  Freda: So just pushing more awareness about the opportunities from an economic perspective, from a tourist perspective, as well as from an intellectual property perspective.
• 22:28
  Freda: So that's how Zia came together.
• 22:31
  Jeanne: So I've seen some of the pictures of things you've done for the folks over there.
• 22:36
  Jeanne: So if I was going to travel to Zambia, what would I do there?
• 22:40
  Freda: Oh my goodness.
• 22:41
  Freda: You know, it's interesting because right now I'm pulling together a chip for two chefs that are coming to Zambia to tap into the cuisine.
• 22:52
  Freda: Their goal is to do it recipe exchange and come back and infuse not only the methods of cooking into their curriculum, but also to infuse into their restaurant some Zambian food.
• 23:04
  Freda: There's a lot to do in Zambia.
• 23:06
  Freda: Um we have one of the seven wonders of the world.
• 23:08
  Freda: We have the Musio Tunia, which is also called the Victoria Falls.
• 23:14
  Freda: And it's about 380 feet deep and is just amazing.
• 23:19
  Freda: We also have the Kafui National Park, which is one of the largest national parks in Africa.
• 23:27
  Freda: And we have 20 other national parks.
• 23:30
  Freda: Also, people that are interested in bird watching, people that are interested into more of the African, real African setting of animals.
• 23:40
  Freda: We're not as developed as other countries like Kenya, but we have a lot to offer.
• 23:46
  Freda: Great people.
• 23:47
  Jeanne: What is the tourist industry like there?
• 23:49
  Jeanne: I mean, do they have trips that people could uh book to go to Zambia?
• 23:53
  Jeanne: I I've never looked into it, so that's why I'm asking.
• 23:56
  Freda: No, absolutely.
• 23:57
  Freda: In fact, one of my friends has a company called Unlock Africa.
• 24:01
  Freda: So she does tour trips to Africa.
• 24:04
  Freda: If you're interested, you can Google.
• 24:06
  Freda: I have so many cool friends.
• 24:08
  Freda: I do.
• 24:09
  Freda: You know, Jeannie, one of the things that I was having a conversation about yesterday was about relationships.
• 24:17
  Freda: And everything is about relationships.
• 24:19
  Freda: And as a visit chair, leveraging relationships and referrals is so important.
• 24:24
  Freda: I think back in the day it was six degrees of separation.
• 24:28
  Freda: I would argue that with social media, it's really three degrees of separation right now.
• 24:34
  Freda: And everything is about relationships.
• 24:36
  Freda: If you're a business person, you have to manage relationships.
• 24:38
  Freda: If you're a CEO, relationships.
• 24:41
  Freda: If you are in any kind of even if you're in social media and you have a podcast, everything's about relationships.
• 24:47
  Freda: So yeah, I have cool friends.
• 24:48
  Freda: Yes, you do.
• 24:49
  Freda: I like you.
• 24:52
  Jeanne: Yeah, and you're not going anywhere.
• 24:54
  Jeanne: I'm gonna keep you as one.
• 24:56
  Jeanne: So as you look forward toward 2026, what's one leadership trend you think leaders should really be paying attention to right now?
• 25:06
  Jeanne: Maybe you've already hit on it, but I just want to wrap that up.
• 25:10
  Freda: Yeah, I would say really assessing what we've just spoken about relationships, especially with people, people that work for them.
• 25:20
  Freda: You know, now we are in times that are somewhat complex.
• 25:26
  Freda: Economically, people are looking before they would buy a pack of chicken, there were six pieces of chicken in there, and it was less expensive.
• 25:35
  Freda: Now the prices have gone high, and there are only three pieces of chicken in there.
• 25:39
  Freda: So people are very in a very interesting space.
• 25:42
  Freda: So relationships, CEOs should really assess their relationships and how they are motivating and having empathy for people that work for them.
• 25:52
  Jeanne: Very nice.
• 25:52
  Jeanne: So that kind of takes us into our um next part of the show, which is playing true truths and a lie.
• 26:01
  Jeanne: It's one of my favorite things.
• 26:03
  Jeanne: And it's also something a little different.
• 26:06
  Jeanne: It's not a gimmick, but you know, it's a way to let a few unexpected stories about yourself come up and show how you are as a deeper person.
• 26:16
  Jeanne: And I'm going to read three statements that you provided to me, and then I'm gonna guess.
• 26:23
  Jeanne: Don't tell me which one is the truth or which one's the lie.
• 26:25
  Jeanne: Then I'm gonna guess which one I think.
• 26:27
  Jeanne: Then you're gonna go over each one of them, and then we will um find out the truth of the lie at the end.
• 26:35
  Jeanne: Okay?
• 26:35
  Jeanne: You ready?
• 26:36
  Jeanne: I'm ready.
• 26:37
  Jeanne: This is gonna be fun.
• 26:39
  Jeanne: This episode is sponsored by Rebel 180, the home of brave pivots and fresh starts.
• 26:47
  Jeanne: Rebel 180 is all about helping you rediscover what's possible when you stop settling and start listening to that little tug inside that says, Life can be different.
• 26:57
  Jeanne: Whether you're navigating a career shift, dreaming about a new direction, or standing at the crossroads wondering if it's time for your own 180-degree turn, Rebel 180 is a reminder you don't need permission to change your story.
• 27:11
  Jeanne: And now, as we open the door to our second sponsor, we're stepping into the world of tech.
• 27:15
  Jeanne: Simple socket print, the lightweight, lazy, fast label print solution designed for those who need reliability without the blue.
• 27:23
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• 27:34
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• 27:41
  Jeanne: Keep your workflow simple, keep your label printing fast with Simple Socket Print.
• 27:46
  Jeanne: Thank you to our sponsors.
• 27:49
  Jeanne: So you said Freda woke up one day and realized that her resume did not define her.
• 27:59
  Jeanne: It did not define her professional life in corporate America or her purpose-driven work.
• 28:04
  Jeanne: That's story number one or story headline number one.
• 28:08
  Jeanne: Number two, no scholarship, no apologies.
• 28:12
  Jeanne: 3,800 miles later, Freda is a runner who has run 3,800 miles over the last five years.
• 28:20
  Jeanne: I'm tired already.
• 28:21
  Jeanne: Although earlier in life, she turned down a college track scholarship at MIT.
• 28:26
  Jeanne: Hmm.
• 28:27
  Jeanne: Number three, power looks different up close.
• 28:31
  Jeanne: Freda has had face-to-face meetings with three presidents where she talked one-on-one and took selfies.
• 28:37
  Jeanne: So I'm gonna guess.
• 28:41
  Jeanne: And the one that I guess is not true is number one.
• 28:46
  Jeanne: So don't tell me, but I'm gonna say number one.
• 28:49
  Jeanne: Now, what you get to do is go over each of those stories and try to convince us that when you get to the lie, that it's still the truth.
• 28:57
  Jeanne: And we'll see what happens at the end.
• 28:59
  Jeanne: So tell us about number one, the day you woke up and realized your resume did not define you.
• 29:05
  Freda: No, absolutely.
• 29:06
  Freda: So right out of grad school, I was given an opportunity to work with Coca-Cola and joined their financial management program as a future leader, future manager.
• 29:22
  Freda: So I worked there for about a year and a half, and I did audit and I learned the accounts payable systems, and the audit part was really a lot of fun.
• 29:32
  Freda: I can't see that you like that, knowing you.
• 29:36
  Freda: I love the auditors, the people that we were audited, love me too, and I love them because you know it was an aspect of helping identify what controls were missing and what their issues were, but having that slant of working with them, they actually didn't fight back and recognize that there were things that needed to be fixed.
• 29:55
  Freda: It was great.
• 29:55
  Freda: You know, one of the things that I've always believed in and I've always done is really giving back to community, but also being engaged with organizations that are doing fun things.
• 30:05
  Freda: And I was um vice president for the National Association of Black Accountants, NABA.
• 30:11
  Freda: And at one of their cocktail receptions, I came across a lady that got there a little bit early to help set up.
• 30:18
  Freda: And there was another lady that had got up there, and she was also a little early.
• 30:21
  Freda: But in the whole aspect of networking, back in the day, people would go to these types of events to recruit staff.
• 30:28
  Freda: And she was there and she started talking to me.
• 30:30
  Freda: And by the end of the evening, she said, I need you to come and work at GE.
• 30:34
  Freda: I said, GE, why would I work at GE?
• 30:36
  Freda: I'm working for Coke.
• 30:38
  Freda: You know, anywhere in the world that you go, you see a dark-colored drink, you think it's Coke.
• 30:43
  Freda: You don't think about the P word, it's always Coke, right?
• 30:46
  Freda: So I was like, why would I leave Coke to go work for GE?
• 30:49
  Freda: Well, I went home, did my research, and Jack Walsh was the CEO then.
• 30:53
  Freda: And back then, General Electric was like the Google of today.
• 30:58
  Freda: Everybody wanted to work there.
• 31:00
  Freda: And after I did more work, I said, oh wow, they're offering me an opportunity to become onto audit staff.
• 31:08
  Freda: And if you've not heard about audit staff at G, but that was the best training program for leaders.
• 31:17
  Freda: GE was very intent on ensuring that leadership were created while you worked at G on audit staff.
• 31:26
  Freda: So I joined Audit Staff, I left Coke, and at GE, I got to travel around the world, I got to travel and work across industry, and it was an amazing development program for me.
• 31:40
  Freda: At the end of my stint on audit staff, I was given opportunities to work in New York, to work in Atlanta or San Jose.
• 31:50
  Freda: This is pre-Silicon Valley.
• 31:52
  Freda: If I had thought now, if I knew then what I know now, I may have ended up going to Silicon Valley back in the day.
• 31:58
  Freda: But anyway, long story short, I came to Atlanta and I worked with GE until the company I was with at GE sold out to IBM.
• 32:09
  Freda: So I was part of the downsizing of the company and went over to work at Anderson Consulting.
• 32:17
  Freda: You know, Jeannie, we mentioned relationships.
• 32:19
  Freda: Most of the jobs that I've had, if not all of them, it has come through relationships.
• 32:25
  Freda: It wasn't where I went online and I found a role.
• 32:29
  Freda: It was where people came up and shared a position or an opening or introduced me to somebody that was looking for somebody.
• 32:36
  Freda: So it's, you know, my point here is to reiterate the importance of relationships and how you show up and your personal brand.
• 32:44
  Freda: Yeah.
• 32:45
  Freda: So at Anderson, Enron happened.
• 32:48
  Freda: And if you're Alpha, if you're Jen Alpha, then just look up Enron.
• 32:53
  Freda: But Enron was a huge financial situation that happened that impacted Anderson.
• 33:00
  Freda: So Anderson was slowly evolved and um just really became defunct and um because of the relationship that they had with Enron, but also the reliance on just really a main customer.
• 33:15
  Freda: So after that, I went to Bank of America because they were introducing Six Sigma and came on as an executive and spent many years until the financial crisis that happened in 2008, 2009.
• 33:30
  Freda: And then I transitioned to going into healthcare.
• 33:33
  Freda: So I've jumped around in terms of industry.
• 33:36
  Freda: And one thing that I was asked one time was, how did you manage to transition from industry to industry?
• 33:45
  Freda: And I always pointed back to transferable skills and having the right mindset.
• 33:50
  Freda: And that's why I always say mindset is a real currency around how you navigate, but also how you address not only opportunities but challenges in your life.
• 34:00
  Freda: So I stayed in healthcare until my manager, who was the chief medical officer, retired.
• 34:07
  Freda: And I thought to myself, you know what, it's time to retire as well.
• 34:11
  Freda: So I did a soft retirement, gave myself a year until I met you.
• 34:16
  Jeanne: I don't know what that is.
• 34:19
  Freda: A soft retirement is when you kind of like are not doing it.
• 34:23
  Freda: You just stay home and sleep under the mattress or something.
• 34:26
  Freda: You have your own hours.
• 34:28
  Freda: You create your own hours and you create your own opportunities and you focus in on things that you like.
• 34:34
  Freda: In fact, one of my mentors doesn't call it retirement, she calls it preferment because you only do what you prefer to do.
• 34:42
  Jeanne: Oh, I like that.
• 34:43
  Jeanne: So is that okay?
• 34:44
  Jeanne: So the story is the one day you woke up and said your resume didn't define you.
• 34:49
  Jeanne: So it's because you've had so many experiences.
• 34:52
  Jeanne: Is that kind of where you're saying that that's the big headline there?
• 34:56
  Jeanne: You had so many and none of them really Yeah.
• 35:00
  Freda: I would say the reason why it doesn't define me was because all of them were billion-dollar companies.
• 35:06
  Freda: So it puts you in this whole box of working in billion-dollar companies.
• 35:12
  Freda: And whether that defines me or not is something else.
• 35:16
  Jeanne: Oh, okay.
• 35:17
  Jeanne: All right, let's go to number two, the scholarship thing.
• 35:20
  Jeanne: You turned down a track scholarship at MIT.
• 35:23
  Jeanne: Why?
• 35:24
  Freda: Imagine that.
• 35:25
  Freda: And I just looked this morning because today is the end of January, and I've done 56 miles this month.
• 35:33
  Freda: Last year I did almost 640 or somewhat 649 miles for the year.
• 35:41
  Freda: But um, you gotta work out.
• 35:44
  Freda: You gotta work out.
• 35:45
  Freda: And working out and running for me, I don't particularly like to run.
• 35:50
  Freda: You know how you do things even though you don't like to do things.
• 35:54
  Freda: But I asked myself, why do I do it?
• 35:56
  Freda: And I think it's the long-term outcomes of you know staying fit as well as just managing your weight and other things as well.
• 36:06
  Freda: But um I enjoy working out, worked out immensely.
• 36:11
  Freda: And when I was coming to go to college, because I'd gone back to Zambia and I wanted to go to college, so I did this test of English as a foreign language.
• 36:21
  Freda: And this sort of like determined how good you were at speaking English, but also written and written as well as um the comprehension and grom and stuff like that.
• 36:33
  Freda: So I scored very high.
• 36:35
  Freda: And surprisingly enough, I sent out my tofu results, and MIT responded and said, Hey, here is an opportunity for you to come and study at MIT.
• 36:45
  Freda: I didn't back then have a mentor that helped me understand that MIT was an I leave was a big thing.
• 36:55
  Jeanne: You were just learning the American culture here.
• 36:58
  Freda: I was just learning the American culture and I wanted to be in New York.
• 37:00
  Freda: I'm like, I've always wanted to be in New York.
• 37:02
  Freda: I wanted to go to college in New York.
• 37:04
  Freda: So, long story short, I turned on MIT and uh turned that out and decided to go to New York.
• 37:12
  Freda: And I've got no regrets because the more I found out was MIT's got lots of nerds, and I'm like, oh, maybe not.
• 37:19
  Jeanne: No offense to anybody that's gone to MIT, but yeah, I don't know anybody that well, maybe I have met somebody, I just don't remember, but yeah.
• 37:27
  Jeanne: All right, number three, power.
• 37:30
  Jeanne: You had three presidents.
• 37:31
  Jeanne: Selfies with three presidents.
• 37:33
  Jeanne: Let's hear this.
• 37:33
  Jeanne: Which presidents?
• 37:35
  Freda: Oh yeah.
• 37:36
  Freda: These are presidents that are all either were presidents or our presidents of Zambia.
• 37:43
  Freda: Zambia's had seven presidents, and I have had one-on-one face-to-face meetings with three of them on different situations.
• 37:53
  Freda: Um, one of them, I'll just share with you this story.
• 37:57
  Freda: I had gone to his house actually, and we were sitting down.
• 38:02
  Freda: And for those who know me, you know that I always carry a fan.
• 38:06
  Freda: At my age, we have these private summers and at you carry a fan.
• 38:15
  Jeanne: That sounds very southern.
• 38:16
  Jeanne: That sounds very southern and ladylike.
• 38:19
  Jeanne: And you're in Atlantis.
• 38:21
  Freda: I'm in Atlanta, but it's um it it happens when you're you you reach a certain age as a woman that you have these hot flashes, aka private summers.
• 38:32
  Freda: And I've carried my fan around for a very long time.
• 38:35
  Freda: And um, unfortunately, this president he was suffering from cancer, and the impact for him was he was also having hot flashes, so to speak.
• 38:47
  Freda: So I actually was experiencing one.
• 38:50
  Freda: I pulled out my fan to call me off, and he says, What's that?
• 38:55
  Freda: And I told him it was a mini fan, and he says, Let me look at that.
• 38:59
  Freda: And he looked at it and he says, I think I need one of those.
• 39:02
  Freda: And I was like, Oh, sure, you can have this one.
• 39:06
  Freda: And I gave him my my fan.
• 39:10
  Jeanne: Was it a paper fan or was it one of those battery-operated little whirly gigs or whatever?
• 39:17
  Freda: Yeah, battery operated that you can actually charge.
• 39:20
  Freda: She has a USB cord that you can actually charge.
• 39:24
  Jeanne: I wasn't a Baptist fan, you know, the one from church.
• 39:29
  Freda: It wasn't one of those.
• 39:31
  Freda: And another situation with another one of the presidents was he was 91, I want to say.
• 39:37
  Freda: He was 91 years old, or 89 maybe.
• 39:40
  Freda: He was 89 years old.
• 39:41
  Freda: And I was sitting with him and we're having a conversation, and I looked at him, I said, Do you know what a selfie is?
• 39:49
  Freda: And he said, Uh, yes, I do.
• 39:51
  Freda: I said, Can I do a selfie with you?
• 39:53
  Freda: And he said, Uh sure.
• 39:55
  Freda: So I took a selfie with him.
• 39:58
  Freda: The two presents that I've just mentioned are both um deceased.
• 40:02
  Freda: May God rest their souls in peace.
• 40:06
  Freda: But it was just an amazing time having met them and having had that close encounter with them.
• 40:13
  Freda: You know, the one thing that uh, you know, we all as human beings experience sometimes like, oh my goodness, this title this defines this person.
• 40:21
  Freda: We have these one-on-one conversations.
• 40:24
  Freda: At the end of the day, you're like, you know what?
• 40:26
  Freda: This is just another human being that was born a baby and grew up, does the same things that I do, brushes their teeth, goes to the bathroom, eats food.
• 40:35
  Freda: So it's just amazing how this stigma, this whole aspect of wow, these are great people, how that sort of like dissolves itself when you have these one-on-one experiences with them.
• 40:47
  Freda: And um, the other encounter that I had was as part of ZLA, we were hosting a shifting mindset conference in Zambia.
• 40:59
  Freda: And he came to attend and open that conference.
• 41:03
  Freda: It was the first diaspora conference that the country had had because the diaspora being such a huge currency for the country and tapping into not only the intellectual aspects, but also the remittances as well as development of the country.
• 41:21
  Freda: So those were the encounters that I had with three presidents, and they were all from Zambia's the question.
• 41:27
  Jeanne: Okay, so you had me food.
• 41:28
  Jeanne: I thought they were United States residents.
• 41:30
  Jeanne: I was like, you're getting you're getting around, girl.
• 41:33
  Jeanne: So um what was the lie?
• 41:36
  Freda: The lie was I did not receive a track student athlete opportunity from MIT.
• 41:45
  Freda: I was I was accepted to MIT, but it wasn't because I ran track, and I do I do run because I have to stay fit, but that was the line.
• 41:57
  Jeanne: Oh, I thought it was true because you do run all the time.
• 42:00
  Jeanne: 3,800 miles in the last five years, plus 56, you just said, for this month.
• 42:06
  Jeanne: Oh my goodness.
• 42:08
  Jeanne: Yes.
• 42:08
  Jeanne: Well, that was really fun.
• 42:10
  Jeanne: So I'm gonna share my screen again because I want to show people how they can get in touch with you.
• 42:15
  Jeanne: So there's one thing that you gave me a quote.
• 42:19
  Jeanne: Can you see the screen?
• 42:21
  Jeanne: And if you don't stay relevant, you will become irrelevant.
• 42:25
  Jeanne: I love that.
• 42:26
  Jeanne: Anything else for that comment or you want to expand on that, Annie?
• 42:31
  Freda: Absolutely.
• 42:32
  Freda: You know, one thing that a lot of CEOs are really paying attention to is technology, people, and growth.
• 42:43
  Freda: And with AI being a disruptor, at this point, if you haven't caught on to figuring out a way of how to simplify your own work or your whole appreciation of AI, you really slowly become irrelevant because everything right now, you have quicker access to information, quicker access to understanding how to navigate things.
• 43:09
  Freda: Things are coming into your space that you didn't ask for.
• 43:12
  Freda: If you've noticed recently, you can be clicking onto say a pair of shoes, and before you know it, you're being flooded with a whole bunch of other shoes.
• 43:21
  Freda: And that can be very distracting.
• 43:23
  Freda: But if you learn how to disable those functionalities that are preventing these other distractors, you will start to find that you're using your time in not effective ways.
• 43:36
  Freda: So I always like to look at and understand that we have 86,400 seconds every day.
• 43:43
  Freda: How you use your time is so important.
• 43:46
  Freda: And if you don't stay irrelevant in terms of your skills, in terms of your time, you will slowly become irrelevant.
• 43:55
  Freda: And I always like to remind myself about that, but also remind others as well.
• 44:00
  Jeanne: Oh, very nice.
• 44:00
  Jeanne: Yeah, I try to stay relevant too.
• 44:03
  Jeanne: I my husband laughs at me because I have a name for my chat GPT.
• 44:08
  Freda: What's it been for the chat GPT?
• 44:11
  Jeanne: Al.
• 44:11
  Jeanne: I call him Al.
• 44:12
  Jeanne: It's um it's something from my dad.
• 44:15
  Jeanne: My dad always had this little statue of a wise old owl, like not Al A L.
• 44:21
  Jeanne: So I call my um my chat GPT owl, like a wise old owl.
• 44:28
  Freda: Do you use any of the others?
• 44:29
  Jeanne: Like do you use perplexity or Gemini or I've used Gemini and Grok and but because I got really vested into um my buddy Al I just go to him first and him, I mean what it she I should ask Al what his pronouns are.
• 44:50
  Freda: I'm sure I'm sure he'll respond or she'll respond or it will respond or they will respond.
• 44:56
  Jeanne: Whatever you want, he'll say it'll say whatever you want to call me, whatever.
• 45:00
  Jeanne: Yeah.
• 45:00
  Jeanne: Uh yeah.
• 45:01
  Jeanne: So yeah, I try to stay relevant.
• 45:03
  Jeanne: So AI is a really big thing right now.
• 45:05
  Jeanne: It's gonna I was in a emerging technologies group at IBM.
• 45:09
  Jeanne: So when things don't merge anymore and they go downhill, you know, then uh I think AI is it's not emerging anymore.
• 45:17
  Jeanne: It's kind of trying to find its water, but anyway, it's a relevant thing right now to really understand what AI is doing to the world.
• 45:25
  Freda: Yeah, technology.
• 45:26
  Freda: Yeah, absolutely.
• 45:27
  Freda: Yeah.
• 45:28
  Jeanne: There's other things here on the screen where you can contact Freda at LinkedIn, email, and then she's got websites on here.
• 45:35
  Jeanne: And these will all be in the transcript notes, and um, you'll be able to get in touch with her.
• 45:40
  Jeanne: But uh, we need to wrap up now, and I'm so happy you were on the show.
• 45:45
  Jeanne: Um, Freda, thank you so much for spending your time with me.
• 45:48
  Jeanne: And uh can't wait to hear more from you.
• 45:51
  Freda: Jeannie, thank you so much for having me.
• 45:53
  Freda: This was a lot of fun.
• 45:54
  Freda: I loved your questions, and I look forward to supporting you as you continue growing in this space of podcast.
• 46:03
  Jeanne: Oh, thank you so much.
• 46:04
  Jeanne: You're welcome.
• 46:05
  Jeanne: Bye, everyone, and stay tuned for the next episode where we'll have another lovely guest coming up.
• 46:11
  Jeanne: Thanks for joining me on Project Candor, where the doors are open, the stories are unexpected, and the treasure is always real.
• 46:18
  Jeanne: If today's episode made you laugh or think, follow the show and share it with your crew.
• 46:24
  Jeanne: Otherwise, I might just make you swab the deck.
• 46:27
  Jeanne: I'm Jeanne Andersen, your Admiral of the Unexpected.
• 46:30
  Jeanne: See you on the next Voyage.