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Is Your Company Missing Out on Efficiency with Traditional Management? · Business Roundtable

0:32
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Business Roundtable podcast. I'm your host
0:35
Speaker 1: David Carr, bringing great guests here to our podcast, and
0:40
Speaker 1: we've got another one, Ron Higgs here. I've titled this
0:45
Speaker 1: episode of the podcast. You guys ever seen this from
0:46
Speaker 1: fighter Jets to Founders. You're gonna hear some great background
0:50
Speaker 1: on Ron. We're gonna talk about leadership lessons at the
0:53
Speaker 1: intersection of systems and stewardship. And I'm super excited Ron
0:57
Speaker 1: to have you here on the podcast.
0:59
Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate you having me.
1:02
Speaker 1: Absolutely Now, Ron and I you guys might hear this
1:05
Speaker 1: and say, you guys seem similar, but we actually are
1:07
Speaker 1: very complimentary to one and I both work with founders,
1:12
Speaker 1: business owners and senior leaders in growing firms. And one
1:16
Speaker 1: of the things I really loved Ron is his expertise
1:20
Speaker 1: as an engineer. And you're gonna hear some background him
1:22
Speaker 1: on there about how to get your company operating in
1:25
Speaker 1: a healthy, strong capacity where there may be operational drag
1:29
Speaker 1: or leadership gaps. And we're going to talk a little
1:30
Speaker 1: bit about how we look at leadership together and collaborate.
1:34
Speaker 1: And so Ron, I want to just say thanks again
1:37
Speaker 1: for coming on here. I love to give folks a
1:39
Speaker 1: little bit of a background in what got you to
1:43
Speaker 1: where you're at with Wolf Management Solutions. You've got just
1:46
Speaker 1: a robust background. You guys are going to check out
1:49
Speaker 1: wrong He's connected with me on LinkedIn and you can also,
1:51
Speaker 1: of course go to his website. But we want you
1:54
Speaker 1: to share. You can, you know, talk a little bit
1:57
Speaker 1: about yourself. It's okay to brag on yourself a little
1:59
Speaker 1: bit because you've got a lot of great credentials. And
2:02
Speaker 1: I want folks to learn a little bit about your
2:04
Speaker 1: back room from being a Navy officer to the back
2:07
Speaker 1: exact and now you know advisor. So just can you
2:10
Speaker 1: walk us through a little bit about your story.
2:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it takes a while because old, but
2:18
Speaker 2: I've done a lot of different things. I started in
2:20
Speaker 2: the Navy. I went to the Naval Academy, I went
2:23
Speaker 2: to I was a Naval flight officer in the Navy.
2:25
Speaker 2: So if you remember top Gun Maverick Goose, you know
2:28
Speaker 2: I was a youth and I'm a graduate of the
2:31
Speaker 2: US Naval Test Pilot School. I so I worked on aircraft,
2:37
Speaker 2: aircraft systems, aircraft weapons, sensor systems, and satellite systems during
2:41
Speaker 2: my time in the NAVYES. So I was what they
2:44
Speaker 2: call an aerospace engineering duty officer as well. So I
2:47
Speaker 2: sort of came off the front line as a war
2:49
Speaker 2: fighter and did that. That gave me a lot of
2:51
Speaker 2: exposure to engineering, engineering teams, defence contractors, those sorts of things.
2:55
Speaker 2: So when I got out in the Navy, just like
2:57
Speaker 2: most good military people do, is that left the military,
3:01
Speaker 2: went and started working for defense contractors. I worked for
3:04
Speaker 2: a couple of defense contractors for a few years after
3:08
Speaker 2: I got out of the Navy. I did sales and
3:10
Speaker 2: business development. I worked as a flight crew for one
3:16
Speaker 2: large aircraft manufacturer. And then I decided that aerospace and
3:23
Speaker 2: defense wasn't where I wanted to spend the rest of
3:26
Speaker 2: my career. It was sort of a calling. It's like
3:30
Speaker 2: you're meant to do something else. Yeah, And I got
3:33
Speaker 2: involved with a few startups, and as a military guy,
3:37
Speaker 2: the guy who spent my career in the military and
3:39
Speaker 2: didn't have a real job until I was forty one
3:42
Speaker 2: years old, right, there's gaps in my knowledge gaps, and
3:47
Speaker 2: you know, I didn't know anything about let's say, nonprofits.
3:49
Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about how people start companies, and
3:52
Speaker 2: that was fascinating to me. So he dove into the
3:54
Speaker 2: startup world, became involved in a few startups, learned some
3:59
Speaker 2: pain full lessons as far as that goes, started figuring
4:04
Speaker 2: out where I could add the most value in that
4:07
Speaker 2: value was in leadership, executive leadership, things like that. So
4:11
Speaker 2: I started doing random consulting things through my network. I
4:16
Speaker 2: found a job as a COO of a company. I
4:19
Speaker 2: was like, this is great, and I have a background
4:22
Speaker 2: in systems engineering, and I actually applied a lot of
4:24
Speaker 2: my systems engineering knowledge in my COO role. Unfortunately, that
4:29
Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty. So I got that job, it
4:32
Speaker 2: was great, and promptly got laid off due to COVID
4:36
Speaker 2: and I'm sure everybody has similar COVID stories. Went back,
4:42
Speaker 2: restructured my business as a fractional COO business. I did
4:46
Speaker 2: fractional COO as a fractional EOS integrator, and throughout all
4:50
Speaker 2: that I found myself doing a lot of coaching. I
4:52
Speaker 2: did a lot of coaching in a military but as
4:55
Speaker 2: a fractional COO, I did a lot of coaching, you know,
4:57
Speaker 2: coach the CEO, a little coach to member of the
5:00
Speaker 2: executive team individually and as a whole. And I and
5:04
Speaker 2: I gravitated towards that. It's like, you know what, I
5:07
Speaker 2: like this a lot more so. A little while ago,
5:09
Speaker 2: about a year ago, I decided to move full time
5:12
Speaker 2: into coaching. I decided to choose my niche of engineers.
5:16
Speaker 2: So I transformed data and processes driven engineers into effective
5:20
Speaker 2: executive leaders because I'm an engineer and I dealt with
5:25
Speaker 2: the challenges that engineers have into moving into leadership roles,
5:30
Speaker 2: and I was able to help a lot of engineers
5:33
Speaker 2: that I worked with throughout my career make that transition.
5:37
Speaker 2: So that is how I arrived at the specialty and
5:40
Speaker 2: what I'm.
5:41
Speaker 1: Doing now, well, I love that ron And you know
5:45
Speaker 1: from my background too, I'm not an engineer, but I
5:47
Speaker 1: have worked with many and that's why I love having
5:49
Speaker 1: you on the podcast, because you know what I found
5:52
Speaker 1: is it's different voices and different folks of different experience,
5:55
Speaker 1: like yourself. You've been in the trenches and now you're
5:58
Speaker 1: coming on the other side and your helping those and
6:00
Speaker 1: there's such a need right now. I've seen in the
6:04
Speaker 1: in our i'll say, the industry, if you will, architecture, engineering, construction,
6:08
Speaker 1: environmental consulting, whatever, you know that professional services industry of
6:13
Speaker 1: technical specialists and getting them across the line to being
6:16
Speaker 1: incoming leaders like you've gone through. Yeah.
6:20
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you know. Funny, just yesterday I went out yesterday, Uh,
6:26
Speaker 2: I went to a brewery to have a beer and
6:27
Speaker 2: I and there are a group of people behind me
6:30
Speaker 2: and they were talking about how horrible their managers were.
6:34
Speaker 2: And they were they were engineers talking about how horrible
6:37
Speaker 2: their engineering managers were and the management of their companies
6:41
Speaker 2: and things. And I didn't I didn't inter up, but
6:43
Speaker 2: I just I just listened. So real, just like you said,
6:46
Speaker 2: there's a real need out there because you have people
6:48
Speaker 2: out there. There's a group of four people at the
6:50
Speaker 2: table behind me having a conversation about how horrible there
6:54
Speaker 2: you know, their bosses are and so things are in
6:56
Speaker 2: their company. So this is something definitely that's needed.
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Speaker 1: It it's real, it's real and and and I think
7:02
Speaker 1: you know people particularly, I would say I'm seeing it
7:05
Speaker 1: more in the millennials and the gen zs. They're not
7:08
Speaker 1: going to stick around in a company very long if
7:10
Speaker 1: they don't feel part of the greater vision. They feel
7:12
Speaker 1: like you started something, you have a business and business
7:15
Speaker 1: and are like, oh, this is amazing. They want to
7:16
Speaker 1: create this, but then they lose you know, they're trying
7:19
Speaker 1: to you know, they're busy, they're building the business, but
7:21
Speaker 1: then the team in the structure don't keep up with it. Right,
7:24
Speaker 1: That's what I'm hearing you say, run like you're going forward.
7:26
Speaker 1: You're kind of like your team doesn't feel a part
7:28
Speaker 1: of this.
7:30
Speaker 2: That That is essentially what happens. But it but it
7:33
Speaker 2: really all depends on the size of the team and
7:36
Speaker 2: you and I know, depending on where you start. You
7:39
Speaker 2: start with a really small group of people. So you
7:42
Speaker 2: have a founder, and the founder finds maybe a co founder,
7:46
Speaker 2: and then once they get their idea off the ground
7:48
Speaker 2: and they get the company going, they find a few
7:50
Speaker 2: people and so they start off and maybe they have
7:53
Speaker 2: five people in a group of five people or you know,
7:56
Speaker 2: let's say less than ten people. It's very easy to
7:59
Speaker 2: make decision and implement decisions. Yes, Why because the people
8:03
Speaker 2: who are making the decisions and the people that are
8:05
Speaker 2: doing the work are the same people. Right, So as
8:08
Speaker 2: you grow, as the company grows, you have to start
8:11
Speaker 2: working through other people. So now the people who make
8:14
Speaker 2: decisions are the same. They can make decisions very quickly,
8:17
Speaker 2: but they can't implement the decisions as quickly now because
8:20
Speaker 2: they're working through other people, and so that starts to
8:23
Speaker 2: get lost as the company grows, they now not sure
8:26
Speaker 2: how to lead, not sure really how to communicate, how
8:29
Speaker 2: to work through other people, how to get buy in
8:32
Speaker 2: from other people, those sorts.
8:33
Speaker 1: Of things right right, Well, And it's the question I
8:39
Speaker 1: have for you or you know, if I dealve deeper
8:41
Speaker 1: into that point. Ron is growing, But why don't they
8:46
Speaker 1: Why do they delay kind of addressing some of these
8:49
Speaker 1: leadership or team issues and both Actually is really painful,
8:52
Speaker 1: like what is it that you're what is the experience?
8:54
Speaker 1: Why do you see that founder is delaying them?
8:56
Speaker 2: Well, a couple of things. One, I don't think they
8:58
Speaker 2: know how a lot of times they are. And then
9:01
Speaker 2: time they are focused on other things. They're focused on
9:04
Speaker 2: getting their idea out the ground, they focused on getting funding,
9:08
Speaker 2: They're focused on so many other things in the leadership portion,
9:12
Speaker 2: and the things that they need to create a successful
9:14
Speaker 2: business sort of take a back seat. So they get
9:18
Speaker 2: to the point when they get all their funding. Now
9:21
Speaker 2: they they find that they haven't put any thought or
9:24
Speaker 2: any effort into the kind of company they're going to
9:27
Speaker 2: build to deliver whatever product or service that they at. Yeah,
9:32
Speaker 2: so maybe they just don't know how they don't prioritize it.
9:36
Speaker 2: In the beginning, I tried to focus my leadership business
9:40
Speaker 2: on teaching leadership to startup founders because it obviously is
9:45
Speaker 2: very important. Yes, they're too busy focused on other things.
9:49
Speaker 2: It's like, well, too busy, now try and you know,
9:52
Speaker 2: dedicating some time to this sooner will really pay off
9:58
Speaker 2: for you later. Absolutely, you're gonna be digging yourself out
10:02
Speaker 2: of the hole later. And just add put a little
10:05
Speaker 2: bit more into this. And the way I try to
10:08
Speaker 2: sell it is that you're going out and asking people
10:11
Speaker 2: for money and fundraising. I went out and asked a
10:14
Speaker 2: whole bunch of people who write checks to startups what
10:17
Speaker 2: qualities they look for in a startup founder and they
10:21
Speaker 2: were all leadership qualities. So if you understand and know
10:26
Speaker 2: and start to build your leadership skills early, it's going
10:29
Speaker 2: to help you throughout.
10:31
Speaker 1: Yes. Well, and here's again why we have you on
10:34
Speaker 1: the podcast Ron and our guests is that we want
10:38
Speaker 1: those founders or those visitors to listen and say, hey,
10:40
Speaker 1: I have an advocate as somebody that can help me.
10:43
Speaker 1: Ron has been there and he's seen this across multiple companies.
10:46
Speaker 1: You may have not experienced that. You may have been
10:48
Speaker 1: in a company, but you haven't been able to experience
10:51
Speaker 1: what it's like to be on the other side. Like
10:52
Speaker 1: Ron is sharing here, and I think it's so important.
10:55
Speaker 1: And Ron, one of your strengths is breaking down unclear
10:59
Speaker 1: roles and the communication culture. Right, you're looking at those things.
11:05
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, excuse me.
11:09
Speaker 1: And I think you know the sooner, like you said that,
11:11
Speaker 1: we can get in there where I like. I think
11:13
Speaker 1: you and I've talked about this, but I like the
11:15
Speaker 1: I like the analogy of a car. It's like you
11:17
Speaker 1: can run a car. I don't do the loyal change,
11:19
Speaker 1: don't do change the tires. It'll keep going for a while,
11:22
Speaker 1: but eventually it will break down on you. And when
11:24
Speaker 1: you break down, it could break down in a very
11:26
Speaker 1: bad place, and you're in the middle of the desert.
11:28
Speaker 1: You're somewhere where it's not easy, and it's like, oh
11:30
Speaker 1: my goodness, no, if I did I did the preventive maintenance,
11:33
Speaker 1: and I did these things, and I spent a little
11:36
Speaker 1: bit of the you know, money and investment front end,
11:38
Speaker 1: it makes it so much easier. You go further, You
11:41
Speaker 1: you don't have those major blowouts if you will, or
11:44
Speaker 1: you know they're minimized at least, And so spending the
11:48
Speaker 1: time in the effort, like you said, Ron, doing that
11:50
Speaker 1: early on is going to really help you. And so
11:53
Speaker 1: you know, bring you're working with the business owners Ron
11:56
Speaker 1: to then bring that actual structure, delegation and role clarity
12:00
Speaker 1: in purpose. How do you tell me a little bit
12:02
Speaker 1: about how when you're starting to work with a client,
12:04
Speaker 1: how do you diagnose where what are their their pain points?
12:08
Speaker 1: What are this They might even realize they're just like
12:09
Speaker 1: I'm hurting Ron.
12:11
Speaker 2: Well, in the beginning, I don't even think they have
12:14
Speaker 2: a fully functional car. I mean they have something with
12:16
Speaker 2: will it may not be a fully functional car. So
12:20
Speaker 2: here's where I typically start. And you know, an ORG
12:24
Speaker 2: chart or an accountability to chart, a functional accountability chart.
12:28
Speaker 2: So a lot of places when they're small, especially in startups,
12:31
Speaker 2: people just do what has to be done. I had
12:34
Speaker 2: a title in startups, but I just did what needed
12:38
Speaker 2: to be done. It's like, hey, there's something not being
12:40
Speaker 2: done here, let me go in and do it. So
12:44
Speaker 2: your jobs in the beginning seem to be based on
12:48
Speaker 2: the person. So in other words, you go into a
12:51
Speaker 2: small company and they'll say, well, this is what David does,
12:54
Speaker 2: this is what Ron does, this is what so and
12:56
Speaker 2: so does, and there may not be any order or
12:58
Speaker 2: structure to it. First thing to do is to create
13:02
Speaker 2: some sort of organizational structure that makes sense. So for them,
13:06
Speaker 2: they're you know, things are working, they're working that way.
13:11
Speaker 2: But in order to grow up and in order to
13:13
Speaker 2: make the company be able to function and scale, you
13:16
Speaker 2: have to create an organizational structure with different parts of
13:21
Speaker 2: the business. So, in other words, you have to go, okay,
13:23
Speaker 2: this is operations, this is sales and marketing, this is
13:27
Speaker 2: business admin, this is financed you know, whatever you want
13:30
Speaker 2: to call it, and you have to you have to
13:33
Speaker 2: start separating people based on that structure. Then you have
13:38
Speaker 2: to build. You have to build a structure first and
13:41
Speaker 2: then put the right person in the right seat. And
13:43
Speaker 2: sometimes the person currently doing the job isn't the person
13:48
Speaker 2: that's right to continue the job. And the way I
13:51
Speaker 2: like to frame this is that the people who build
13:54
Speaker 2: the foundation aren't necessarily the people who build the house,
13:59
Speaker 2: and so so you need different skill sets, you need
14:02
Speaker 2: different people. But once you get that organizational structure, once
14:05
Speaker 2: you get the right people in the right seats, then
14:08
Speaker 2: you can start building something that can grow and scale.
14:12
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, well that's a great you know, I love that,
14:16
Speaker 1: h that analogy you had about building the foundation building
14:20
Speaker 1: up from there. And I've seen that, Like you said,
14:23
Speaker 1: sometimes there are people that started at a certain place
14:26
Speaker 1: and sometimes they didn't move where the company needed to
14:30
Speaker 1: move you will, and their or their identity was in
14:33
Speaker 1: such a position like this is my position mind, and
14:36
Speaker 1: it's like that isn't that's part of the things you do.
14:38
Speaker 1: But you know, we have to we can't be, like
14:40
Speaker 1: you said, tied to that. And some of the things
14:42
Speaker 1: I work with is like getting people a little clearer
14:45
Speaker 1: of that, like, okay, let's break away. That's something that
14:47
Speaker 1: you do, but that isn't you. This is a part
14:49
Speaker 1: of you. And so it's under understanding. Like you said,
14:52
Speaker 1: where do we step into these roles? And some people
14:55
Speaker 1: will naturally want to and they'll like, I'm willing to
14:57
Speaker 1: step in the role. I just don't haven't been equipped yet.
14:59
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do all this. That's understandable, right,
15:02
Speaker 1: because you've never done it before.
15:04
Speaker 2: Well, the biggest problem I see is that sort of
15:08
Speaker 2: what you mentioned is that some people will have autonomy
15:12
Speaker 2: in their current role, and then when you start to
15:15
Speaker 2: grow up and make the changes that need to be made,
15:17
Speaker 2: those folks lose their autonomy and they will fight tooth
15:20
Speaker 2: and nail to keep that autonomy. And so sometimes they're
15:26
Speaker 2: the ones holding back the business. And it's difficult because
15:31
Speaker 2: I had a situation like this where it's, hey, this
15:35
Speaker 2: person's holding you back, and as long as this person
15:37
Speaker 2: is in that role, you're not going to be able
15:39
Speaker 2: to grow like you want. Well, the CEO says, well,
15:44
Speaker 2: he's my best friend and he helped me start the company. Well,
15:47
Speaker 2: then then you're going to be stuck here in this
15:51
Speaker 2: spot until you can get past it. That's really pay
15:56
Speaker 2: for them to do that. And then for us, one
15:58
Speaker 2: point that I didn't make earlier is for us as consultants,
16:01
Speaker 2: our biggest value is that outside perspective, because we can
16:06
Speaker 2: come in and look in. I have what I call
16:08
Speaker 2: a dispassionate view of the company. I don't know who
16:12
Speaker 2: helped start the company, I don't know who in a
16:15
Speaker 2: relationship with who, who's best friends with who, and all that.
16:18
Speaker 2: All I do is see it from the business aspect,
16:21
Speaker 2: and it's like, hey, this person hold in your back, right,
16:25
Speaker 2: So that is a lot of our value and just
16:28
Speaker 2: being able to look in from the outside. Yeah maybe
16:33
Speaker 2: that they can't see.
16:34
Speaker 1: Well yeah absolutely, Ron. I mean you can go read
16:37
Speaker 1: a book or watch a video and can help you
16:39
Speaker 1: become aware of some of these things, but actually implement it,
16:41
Speaker 1: like you're saying, Ron, having somebody like you or I
16:44
Speaker 1: come together and honestly we collaborate together of helping you
16:49
Speaker 1: look at the systems, the processes type with all the
16:52
Speaker 1: people being sure that we do this intentionally. And I've
16:57
Speaker 1: seen exactly what you're talking about, Ron, where you have
17:00
Speaker 1: a person and I was talking with and I was
17:02
Speaker 1: I had an HR person on last week about this
17:04
Speaker 1: on a podcast about like, hey, you only have one
17:07
Speaker 1: person that they're not there's no redundancy. This only person
17:10
Speaker 1: holds everything. Like you said, it gets you to a
17:13
Speaker 1: certain point. And I think businesses like you said, they're
17:15
Speaker 1: they're they're fearful like well what happens if you know
17:18
Speaker 1: this is or or they're like oh I don't want
17:19
Speaker 1: to pack this person. But I'm like, then you're kind
17:22
Speaker 1: of self limiting yourself and you're putting yourself I think
17:25
Speaker 1: at a new risk. You know if something ever happens
17:28
Speaker 1: to that individual.
17:30
Speaker 2: Well, you're right. And on the other side of that,
17:31
Speaker 2: a lot of times that is the owner m or
17:34
Speaker 2: the CEO. The principle they become that person because a
17:38
Speaker 2: lot of folks space that they like being you know,
17:41
Speaker 2: heroic leadership, right, they like being the person with all
17:44
Speaker 2: the answers. They like being a person with everything. But
17:47
Speaker 2: typically if there are situations where the owner is a
17:51
Speaker 2: bottleneck or the CEO whichever we want to call, the
17:54
Speaker 2: most senior executive is a bottleneck, and they're either bottleneck
17:57
Speaker 2: for relationship sale you know, or technology m H.
18:04
Speaker 1: And they're really you know, you and I have some
18:06
Speaker 1: shared colleagues in the M and A space and others,
18:10
Speaker 1: and really they're they're hurting those ups in the long
18:11
Speaker 1: run because the value of the business if that is
18:14
Speaker 1: the case, it's not very valuable if it's built on
18:16
Speaker 1: that in like individuals, right.
18:19
Speaker 2: You're correct, because they are the business. They can't sell that.
18:22
Speaker 2: So again, colleagues, we both have colleagues in M and A,
18:27
Speaker 2: and one specifically that I've worked with in the past
18:32
Speaker 2: is that eighty percent of the deals that don't go
18:35
Speaker 2: through in selling businesses are due to owner dependence, and
18:39
Speaker 2: the owner is that bottleneck the owner owns, you know,
18:42
Speaker 2: it's all here for the owner. They haven't built the
18:45
Speaker 2: team or anything, and so that becomes an impediment to
18:49
Speaker 2: making a good exit. So there's a lot of value
18:54
Speaker 2: in building a team, in building a business that can
18:56
Speaker 2: function without you or one specific person.
19:00
Speaker 1: And it takes time. I mean, everybody that I've talked about,
19:03
Speaker 1: many of the advisors that I've talked to in that
19:05
Speaker 1: you know, mergers, acquisition space run. It's a you know,
19:11
Speaker 1: three to five year process. Get your company into a
19:13
Speaker 1: place where it's truly humming and desirable and kind of
19:19
Speaker 1: you know, and so that does you and I know, right,
19:22
Speaker 1: I mean you can't just say, oh, it's just a
19:23
Speaker 1: hire person like that. Takes time to introgate them and
19:28
Speaker 1: the rest of the team.
19:31
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and sometimes I mean sometimes that is recognized too late,
19:36
Speaker 2: but recognizing it as the first step.
19:38
Speaker 1: Right. So here's the question, So what would you wish
19:42
Speaker 1: more leaders understood run? You know, when it comes to scaling,
19:45
Speaker 1: especially especially when we're talking moving like I said, from
19:48
Speaker 1: ten to twenty to thirty to fifty employees, because sometimes
19:51
Speaker 1: that can happen very quickly. Whether it's full time employees,
19:55
Speaker 1: part time employees, subcontractors, there's a lot of going on there.
19:59
Speaker 1: What do you what do you wish you know, kind
20:01
Speaker 1: of leaders would understand, especially from the operation side, that
20:04
Speaker 1: you are so well versed in that they, you know,
20:07
Speaker 1: they could be prepared for that growth.
20:11
Speaker 2: This may actually sound a little odd, but a clear
20:16
Speaker 2: mission and vision and how important that is along with
20:20
Speaker 2: the values. And I'll give you an example. You know,
20:23
Speaker 2: I'm a veteran, a military guy. We took an oath
20:25
Speaker 2: to support defend the Constitution in the United States. And
20:28
Speaker 2: one thing that the that the military does really really
20:32
Speaker 2: well is that we're able to map everything that we
20:37
Speaker 2: do to supporting and defending the Constitution in the United States.
20:40
Speaker 2: So whatever I did, whatever role that I was in,
20:43
Speaker 2: when I was flying off of aircraft carriers, every time
20:45
Speaker 2: we launched off the end of the aircraft carrier, I
20:48
Speaker 2: knew exactly how what I was doing and that airplane
20:52
Speaker 2: contributed to supporting and defending the Constitution in the United
20:56
Speaker 2: States of America. Right. So, again, if you have a
20:59
Speaker 2: very clear mission and very clear vision, values that are
21:03
Speaker 2: understood everybody, values that you actually use to select and
21:06
Speaker 2: hire the people that are in the company. It's important
21:09
Speaker 2: to have everybody aligned and knowing to what they're doing.
21:12
Speaker 2: I wish more people did that and started with that
21:17
Speaker 2: instead of considering the mission statements. You know, in vision
21:21
Speaker 2: statements a bunch of fluff.
21:23
Speaker 1: M No, I agree with you, run I find most
21:29
Speaker 1: it's it's fuzzy at best. Like you said, you kind
21:32
Speaker 1: of throw something on the wall. Okay, yeah, check that box,
21:34
Speaker 1: But now do you really mean it and believe it.
21:37
Speaker 1: That makes a big difference in your engagement actually getting
21:40
Speaker 1: the work done.
21:42
Speaker 2: And so man, it's that alignment that you have to
21:47
Speaker 2: have through all of that. And again, if you don't
21:51
Speaker 2: have a solid grasp on what your values are. And
21:56
Speaker 2: I'll just give an example, say if you've got a
21:58
Speaker 2: company where you're hiring a electrical engineers. Lots of electrical
22:02
Speaker 2: engineers are coming out of college these days, so you
22:05
Speaker 2: may find yourself where in a position where there's hundreds
22:08
Speaker 2: of people that are qualified for the job that you
22:13
Speaker 2: have out there. How do you determine who of those
22:16
Speaker 2: hundreds of people are the right are the right fit
22:20
Speaker 2: for your company? It's your values. So you have to
22:23
Speaker 2: structure your hiring process, your questions all those things around
22:27
Speaker 2: determining if those folks share the same values that you do.
22:32
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Ron. I mean I worked with a company, you know,
22:36
Speaker 1: where the leader brought in other leaders and they didn't
22:41
Speaker 1: share the same philosophy of being coachable and teachable. And
22:46
Speaker 1: in this particular individual is like, hey, I'm going to
22:49
Speaker 1: hire you, and I had to come in and help
22:50
Speaker 1: a coach and unfortunately many of them didn't be rejected.
22:54
Speaker 1: They didn't take that, and so it will cause a
22:56
Speaker 1: lot of challenges in the company. So you can try
22:59
Speaker 1: to hirequte unquote superstars. They're like, oh my goodness, they're
23:02
Speaker 1: so great, but are they a good fit with the culture,
23:06
Speaker 1: And so if you don't clear on this, it could
23:09
Speaker 1: really break your culture. Could really you know, it caused
23:12
Speaker 1: a lot of problems in fighting if you're not intentional
23:16
Speaker 1: like this, and I don't think sometimes business owners think
23:18
Speaker 1: through all of that, I do. You mean, I even
23:20
Speaker 1: talk with a lot of talent sources recruiters and they're like,
23:23
Speaker 1: I'll get you people. You can tell me what the
23:25
Speaker 1: criteria want, but you're not implementing Well, you haven't thought
23:28
Speaker 1: through the rest of all of this. You and they
23:30
Speaker 1: don't have to really have a plan long term to
23:33
Speaker 1: integrate them into the team run and like really like,
23:36
Speaker 1: how do we you know, leverage them? And did we
23:39
Speaker 1: do we do this? Well? Did we do this thoughtful?
23:41
Speaker 1: Like you said? Right?
23:43
Speaker 2: You gw all great points that you just made. Perfect
23:47
Speaker 2: example is a great salesperson and everybody does this, and
23:52
Speaker 2: I bet everybody can relate to this. You've got a
23:56
Speaker 2: great salesperson out there. They're out there closing deals, but
23:59
Speaker 2: they break all the r They've done some inappropriate things,
24:02
Speaker 2: and they've gotten away with things that no one else
24:05
Speaker 2: would be able to get away with. They're like, well,
24:07
Speaker 2: this person, they're they're the top sales person, so we
24:09
Speaker 2: let them get away with that. So pretty soon you
24:12
Speaker 2: get what you tolerate and it really impacts your your culture,
24:17
Speaker 2: which which is bad. So in the long run, is
24:21
Speaker 2: that top salesperson really doing well for your company if
24:27
Speaker 2: they don't share any of your values or if they're
24:31
Speaker 2: in direct conflict with some of your values?
24:34
Speaker 1: Right? I mean, and I would say it's not just employees.
24:38
Speaker 1: I think getting those those values around, it's like setting
24:41
Speaker 1: up those relationships contractually with maybe subcontractors as well. I
24:47
Speaker 1: was talking to a client. The employee was you know,
24:51
Speaker 1: as like complaining or sharing their concerns with me about
24:53
Speaker 1: this contractor subcontractor that they're working with. And like, I
24:56
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't really think that they're behaving professionally
25:01
Speaker 1: or in a way that you know, And I said, well,
25:03
Speaker 1: what's the like you said, Ron, what's the values, what's
25:05
Speaker 1: the what's the standards that you have in place? Well,
25:08
Speaker 1: there really isn't any written down. Well, then how can
25:11
Speaker 1: we hold them to relating? Have anything to point hang
25:14
Speaker 1: your hat on, so to speak. Right, and this is
25:16
Speaker 1: something you bring up, right, Ron, You.
25:18
Speaker 2: You're coming in your agreement? What's in your agreement? What's
25:22
Speaker 2: I mean that's you know? And when you're determining again
25:25
Speaker 2: when you're deciding on these contractors, so you're.
25:27
Speaker 1: Run right, So when when listeners are feeling stock business owners,
25:35
Speaker 1: or even in a leader within the company, Ron, what
25:41
Speaker 1: is your kind of approach to you know, when you
25:44
Speaker 1: when you're talking with a potential client, what's some of
25:47
Speaker 1: the questions or some of the things you're asking or
25:49
Speaker 1: they should be asking of you even like to know, hey,
25:52
Speaker 1: this person gets it there, they know there they would
25:56
Speaker 1: be helpful to me. Well, what's your kind of potential
26:00
Speaker 1: client interaction. When you're first bringing or talking with somebody.
26:04
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the big thing is to really determine
26:08
Speaker 2: what their issues really are, what's going on, what's happening
26:13
Speaker 2: or what is either happening or not happening in there,
26:16
Speaker 2: and getting the best understanding I can of what pain
26:20
Speaker 2: points they're experiencing. So if I do work with executive teams,
26:25
Speaker 2: so one CEO may say my executive team is good,
26:30
Speaker 2: what can I do to make them great? Or they
26:33
Speaker 2: may say I've got an executive in the team who's
26:37
Speaker 2: good at his or her job, but causing a lot
26:41
Speaker 2: of issues doesn't play well with others. Maybe there's some
26:45
Speaker 2: conflict within the executive executive team that's impacting the business.
26:50
Speaker 2: So the idea is just to ask as many questions
26:53
Speaker 2: as I can to figure out what is it that's
26:56
Speaker 2: really going on? What are you doing? Am I a
27:00
Speaker 2: spending a lot of time putting out fires? I don't
27:03
Speaker 2: have any time to do strategic work right or I
27:08
Speaker 2: don't have time to really develop my team. Where they
27:11
Speaker 2: start complaining about their team, that says, hey, my team
27:14
Speaker 2: does it. They're not proactive. You know, we're always in
27:17
Speaker 2: this reactive mode and a lot of times in terms
27:19
Speaker 2: of leadership, what I have to get them to do
27:21
Speaker 2: is think It's like, okay, so you're the leader of
27:23
Speaker 2: the team. So the first thing I do in a
27:26
Speaker 2: leadership role is think about, Okay, what have I done
27:29
Speaker 2: or not done to cause this? So again, every one
27:35
Speaker 2: of those discussions is different, but I try my best
27:39
Speaker 2: to understand what their pain points are and again, now
27:43
Speaker 2: what is it that will happen if that pain point
27:45
Speaker 2: is eliminated? And so now they're like, I feel like
27:48
Speaker 2: I'm putting out fires every day. Okay, what would it
27:51
Speaker 2: look like if you didn't have to put out fires
27:54
Speaker 2: every day? What would you do? Because that's the end
27:57
Speaker 2: state that we want to get them to, right right,
28:00
Speaker 2: I help them see is see that in state. Boy,
28:04
Speaker 2: if I didn't have to put out buyers every day,
28:07
Speaker 2: I would have time to really get to know my
28:09
Speaker 2: people better. I'd have time to really think about strategic
28:13
Speaker 2: problems instead of just staying tactical all the time. I
28:16
Speaker 2: would really have time to learn, you know something else,
28:21
Speaker 2: Like I don't know I am the chief you know,
28:24
Speaker 2: I'm the chief engineer, but I really don't understand marketing.
28:27
Speaker 2: I would really love to spend some time with the
28:30
Speaker 2: CMO and learn a little bit more about marketing things
28:34
Speaker 2: like that, right, so lives and the things that you
28:37
Speaker 2: can accomplish, you know, once those barriers are surmounted, not
28:44
Speaker 2: all focused on dollars in revenue. I mean, that's what
28:48
Speaker 2: we want, right way, we can make more money, we
28:50
Speaker 2: can generate more. But sometimes people I want to go
28:55
Speaker 2: in and I want to enjoy my job. And if
28:57
Speaker 2: you look at some people and go what's more important
29:00
Speaker 2: to you, you know, enjoying your job or making quite
29:04
Speaker 2: as much money? And some people will make that trade off.
29:07
Speaker 2: You have to let them decide what's more important.
29:09
Speaker 1: Well, absolutely, I think you know, I mean we all
29:13
Speaker 1: love to make more money, but I think I like
29:16
Speaker 1: to use an acronym red of like what is your role?
29:18
Speaker 1: What's the environment? How does the opportunity for development? And
29:21
Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying, ron is you're looking at
29:24
Speaker 1: You're removing some operational bottlenecks, road roadblocks, if you will,
29:29
Speaker 1: you're looking at all those things. Because sometimes I feel
29:32
Speaker 1: like everybody's saying, well everything, you kind of throw it
29:35
Speaker 1: out there. Everything is important and nothing's important, Like how
29:38
Speaker 1: are we evaluating things? Like what is really here, and
29:40
Speaker 1: I hear you you're getting at asking those questions and
29:43
Speaker 1: getting clarity but where they're at. And I love that
29:48
Speaker 1: because I love to pair up with you and that
29:50
Speaker 1: and like as we as you build, you know, helping
29:52
Speaker 1: build the relational trust you mentioned and really breaking out
29:55
Speaker 1: what's our core identity then what are our priorities? And
29:58
Speaker 1: so you know, that's why I love having you know
30:01
Speaker 1: the podcast, because you're helping that executive team. I love
30:03
Speaker 1: that too. But I also love working on that next
30:05
Speaker 1: level of leaders underneath them as well. And so it's
30:08
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of work to be done here.
30:10
Speaker 1: It's not an overnight thing, but together working together, it's
30:14
Speaker 1: like we went out bringing out that full transformation from
30:16
Speaker 1: a founder led chaiask to really team empowered clarity. Like
30:21
Speaker 1: it's like they're actually working together, they're solving problems. They're like,
30:24
Speaker 1: it's not just you coming in like the heroic like
30:26
Speaker 1: you said, there hero has no other questions. They're like, oh,
30:29
Speaker 1: well we should this when I talk with this, Oh
30:31
Speaker 1: you're actually talking with them and coming with a solution.
30:33
Speaker 1: You know, I didn't have to get involved, No, we
30:36
Speaker 1: we knew we had to talk. We understand our roles
30:38
Speaker 1: and we understand the mission right, we're going to get.
30:41
Speaker 2: It doing when we're solving solving their own problems. And
30:44
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you mentioned priorities because that's one of
30:47
Speaker 2: the things that I get a lot of blank stares.
30:53
Speaker 2: Sometimes there are too many blank stares when I ask
30:56
Speaker 2: what are your priorities? And I have to think about that,
31:00
Speaker 2: and they should be consistent. They can't change. And I'll
31:05
Speaker 2: give you an example. One of the things from my
31:06
Speaker 2: days in aviation. One of the first things they taught
31:09
Speaker 2: us in flight school were your priorities AB eight Navigate,
31:12
Speaker 2: communicate AB eight, keep the airplane in the air, do
31:15
Speaker 2: what you need to do, you know, navigate, don't fly
31:17
Speaker 2: it into a mountain, you know, keep going from point
31:20
Speaker 2: A to point B or whatever the near wherever you
31:23
Speaker 2: need to get to to make a safe planning, and
31:26
Speaker 2: then communicate. Right, So those are your priorities in order.
31:30
Speaker 2: And so for me, I always I've taken that philosophy
31:35
Speaker 2: and always ask what are the priorities? And some companies
31:38
Speaker 2: will go well, cash flow people, you know, stewardship, whatever
31:43
Speaker 2: it is, it should be constant and everyone should be
31:46
Speaker 2: clear on it. That way, people will make the same
31:49
Speaker 2: decision or you know, every time, or at least be
31:52
Speaker 2: able to justify in the decision they make based on
31:55
Speaker 2: those priorities.
31:56
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I think there's a there is drift. I
32:00
Speaker 1: think everybody has some kind of drifting. It's like, like
32:02
Speaker 1: you said, then we've got to get back in alignment.
32:04
Speaker 1: Because what I found is that people, especially as you
32:06
Speaker 1: grow it may be you and the business owner are
32:09
Speaker 1: certain people like, well, we know the priorities, but it
32:12
Speaker 1: gets lost, it's diffused and it doesn't quite get clear.
32:15
Speaker 1: And then people start picking and choosing their priorities but
32:19
Speaker 1: work because they're like, oh, I like doing this more
32:20
Speaker 1: and this better, right, and then I want to do
32:22
Speaker 1: this better. Before you know it once was you were
32:25
Speaker 1: kind of laser focused and oh my goodness, and now
32:27
Speaker 1: you're diffused and it's like, what's our actual impact? Now?
32:30
Speaker 1: What are we actually doing here?
32:32
Speaker 2: Well, the thing about priorities is have they actually been communicated?
32:36
Speaker 2: Because I'm sure you've run into this problem too with process.
32:40
Speaker 2: Something happens with someone and they look around and go,
32:43
Speaker 2: you didn't follow the process, And sometimes they go, there's
32:48
Speaker 2: a process. So there could be a process out there
32:52
Speaker 2: that wasn't communicated or somebody created it and without any
32:57
Speaker 2: input whatsoever from the people who are so suposed to
33:00
Speaker 2: follow the process.
33:01
Speaker 1: Right, So, if.
33:02
Speaker 2: You've got people out there who are involved in a
33:04
Speaker 2: process and you're not taking any input from them, I mean,
33:07
Speaker 2: there's lots of reasons, but the point of this one
33:09
Speaker 2: was to say, sometimes you could have something be very clear,
33:13
Speaker 2: but if it's not communicated, then you're gonna have issues.
33:17
Speaker 2: So not only do you need to have the priorities,
33:20
Speaker 2: but they need to be clearly communicated absolutely.
33:23
Speaker 1: I know we're getting close to end of the podcast.
33:25
Speaker 1: You're run because we could definitely go on. There's so
33:28
Speaker 1: much more, and I love, I love hopeful guys are
33:30
Speaker 1: getting a lot of value out of this because ron
33:33
Speaker 1: and I are super excited about this. We want to
33:35
Speaker 1: help you as a business leader, executive, founder, really rise
33:40
Speaker 1: above the cast, rise by the noise and know and
33:43
Speaker 1: get it to before before you crash. I want to
33:46
Speaker 1: help you. But ron As was wrapping up here. You know,
33:52
Speaker 1: you know, if there was you know, one thing a
33:54
Speaker 1: founder executive could take away from this conversation, what would
33:57
Speaker 1: you want that to be? Here? Chare with them today?
34:01
Speaker 2: Well again just in terms of consultants and some of
34:06
Speaker 2: the things that we do, one outside perspective can really
34:10
Speaker 2: change things. And so again for us as consultants, I
34:13
Speaker 2: think our primary value is in just having that just
34:18
Speaker 2: having that outside perspective. Talk to someone, get another perspective,
34:25
Speaker 2: lay out your problems. It could even be a peer. Yes, anything,
34:29
Speaker 2: just get another perspective. And sometimes that will either sort
34:34
Speaker 2: of confirm confirm some of your worst fears or make
34:39
Speaker 2: you aware of something that you hadn't thought of. And
34:41
Speaker 2: I know I'm asking the right questions when I'm doing
34:44
Speaker 2: great when somebody says, wow, I hadn't thought about that.
34:48
Speaker 1: There you go. I thought that that could be huge, right. Yeah, Ron,
34:55
Speaker 1: we so appreciate you being here. Like I mentioned earlier,
34:58
Speaker 1: you're going to your link. Thanks show notes on there.
35:09
Speaker 1: Thank you Ron for being back. We'll have to have
35:11
Speaker 1: you back again because this is just a fun, engaging conversations.
35:14
Speaker 2: Anytime, and thank you so much. Really enjoyed the conversation.
35:17
Speaker 2: As you said, I could go on about this for
35:19
Speaker 2: a long time. Yeah, maybe you can. I've in this
35:21
Speaker 2: up a bit more specific or or unpack a couple
35:24
Speaker 2: of the things that we we we skirt it on.
35:27
Speaker 2: But yeah, this has been great. Thank you again for
35:29
Speaker 2: having us.
35:30
Speaker 1: Absolutely everybody, thanks for joining us. Of course, we appreciate
35:33
Speaker 1: you liking and subscribing. If you're watching us on YouTube,
35:37
Speaker 1: that's fantastic. We're continuing to grow that channel, whether it's
35:40
Speaker 1: LinkedIn or whatever the channel might be. Please share this
35:43
Speaker 1: If you enjoyed it, follow along, and we look forward
35:47
Speaker 1: to having you back again next time on the Business
35:49
Speaker 1: round Table podcast. Be while everybody, thanks for listening. M