Latest / Art of the Question / My Wife Hired a Hitman So I Faked My Death - Ramon Sosa - #10

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My Wife Hired a Hitman So I Faked My Death - Ramon Sosa - #10 · Art of the Question

• speaker-0: Before we get into the bigger story, I'm just ⁓ curious about your background and perhaps your youth and what it was like growing up moving to the United States. And I believe boxing has always been a very big part of your life as well. speaker-1: Yes, that's where I got it. Well, I was born in San Juan, Puerto Rico in 1967. 58 years old, man, about to be 59, June 1st, man. But I tried to in good shape. I started boxing in Puerto Rico at a very young age, probably about seven years old, seven or eight years old. And the reason I got started, the way I got started was because my father, he was a professional wrestler. in Puerto Rico and the gym that he used to go to to work out on the weekends, ⁓ lift weights and stuff had a, he was half a weight lifting and half for boxing. And he's always as a kid intrigued me how the boxing, you know, the workout and all the people then, then think about box, you know, in the ring. just, he was just fantastic. I just loved it. And, ⁓ one day one of the trainers that was one of my dad's friend, you know, asked me if he's You know, if I wanted to learn how to box and that was all of course. And he was a very famous trainer in Puerto Rico and he trained professional fighters and he has some good fighters, know, and let tell you the first time he put the gloves on me and, and taught me how to fight. was it. I fell in love with the sport and that was the beginning. My father's always supported me, my family. And then, ⁓ we moved to the States, to New York. ⁓ when I was young, started school there. New Jersey and then filing to Texas as a young teenager. And that's when I really started competing and had a lot of fights as an amateur, a lot of fights. speaker-0: Right, right. And then I believe you briefly moved back to Puerto Rico before you came back to the US again? speaker-1: Yeah, when I turned 17, I became a professional boxer. was trying to make the 1984 Olympic team for the United States. I didn't make the team in the Western trials. And then I turned pro and I went back to Puerto Rico. I had a husband fighting in the States and I went back to Puerto Rico, but had a promoter in Puerto Rico, bought my contract. And I was out there in Puerto Rico for a while, but again, things didn't work out with that promoter. So I ended up moving back to the States to config. speaker-0: Yes, and you also became a coach then after, right? After you stopped competing yourself? speaker-1: Yeah, things didn't work out in boxing. It was just, uh, I had, you know, with management and then, uh, it was just, you know, as an amateur, I was able to compete in it I fought all over and that, and that was my, my life, my love. And, know, even though we were fighting for just a medal or a trophy, was just so much that I loved about the sport. But then when you turn pro is more, it's definitely a business. And I mean, and his managers and promoters, mean, he's just like a piece of meat to them. To me, it seemed like, you know, you're only as good as your last fight at the beginning. If you can't make him any money, forget about it, you know, whatever. And I didn't like that about the, you know, so the business side of it, the way these promoters use these fighters. But what I loved about the sport was just, you know, the training, the, you know, what it did for my life, you know, kept me out of trouble and always kept me focused. in good shape, obviously, and you you had to fight, and I loved that part, so I just continued to train fighters. I became more of a trainer, and I started doing training, young amateur boxers, and ended up opening up a nonprofit boxing gym named Young Prospects Boxing. And I had, it was very successful. had a lot of very good fighters in the amateurs, eventually pros too. speaker-0: That's awesome. And ⁓ at what age did you, did you become a father? Because I, from my understanding, you've, you have children, but those were from a different marriage than the one we're going to be discussing after, correct? speaker-1: My first son, was about what, 24, 25 years old when my first son Mitchell was born. He was born in California. His mother was from California and I met her when I was living out there in California for a few years. And we ended up, she moved back to Texas with me eventually and then we ended up having two more kids, Chris and Mia. So things didn't work out. He was young and I was kind of young too and it didn't work out so we just decided to our ways but with the kids we were very respectful and we had to be parents to our kids even though we're not together. speaker-0: Yeah, and then ⁓ at one point you meet this new woman named Lulu. Can you tell me about how you met? speaker-1: I was about 40 years old when I met her and I have been single for many years now, few years. And I wasn't really interested in a serious relationship because I was very busy with boxing. I've dated, you know, and then went out with ladies. But I wasn't really looking for a serious relationship. ⁓ because I was very involved with boxing, traveling on the weekends, and it's kind of hard sometimes to keep a serious relationship when it's, you know, it was all gone. So, it was, I had somebody at the gym where I was training fighters come up to me and talk to me about this place where, in the area where I used to live at, the Woodlands, about a restaurant slash that they would turn into a club after a certain time. in the evening around after 10, even turn into a club. And he told me, hey, hey, hey, coach, you know, this is beautiful ladies. I've been out there. There's some beautiful ladies that he knew that I, you know, I love that kind of music and stuff. said, you should go check it out. So, you know, I think I might, you know, there was a weekend that I had nothing to do. I said, well, go, you know, check out that place. And I liked it. It was very, my first time there was very nice, you know, you know, and I love the music live. South side of Merengue music. That's, you know, my roots. And when I walked in, I noticed about I don't know her name, but I know that she was on the dance floor. Just very attractive lady, know, all this skin, tall, long, black hair and beautiful body. And she had this black mini dress that looked like it was painted on her. She danced very, very well. know, she was just, you know, doing great. And she like she danced with this guy that she was with, nonstop for her. finally, she stopped dancing with him and I just lost contact, I didn't see her. And then all of she walks right in front of me where I was at and she steps on my toe. And I'm like, oh my God. And I remember she had high heels and I was like, I just went down, know, because it was, you know, I wasn't trying to play it out, but it was painful. And I went down, you know, pain. then when I got up, she started telling me in Spanish, you know, she was sorry, I'm sorry for, you know, whatever. And I said, oh no, it's okay. I said, all I can come up and ask her, would you dance with me? And that was it, you She said, of course. And we went to the dance floor and that was the beginning of the end. We danced and I went. ⁓ speaker-0: Well, that's, that's, ⁓ you meet, you, hit it off. you, ⁓ spend this, ⁓ you have this beautiful evening together on, the dance floor. And then you end up dating this woman. speaker-1: Yeah, we dated ⁓ for about a year and a half. ⁓ came, she was like me divorced, mother of two. She had a little boy, little girl. And it was a whirlwind, you know, relationship with dating that we ⁓ were everywhere. And she loved that I've trained kids and she was support, she was very supportive of me. working with kids and helping kids and it was just a wonderful relationship. She understood what I did with the sport of boxing and then I also understood that her, why she came to this country, to the United States was basically because she wanted a better life for her and her kids. She told me that she came from a very abusive relationship with her ex-husband. And that's one of the reasons too, that she wanted to move over here. And she was a hard worker. She was here on a visitor's visa, which really can't work to have a regular job in United States with a visitor's visa. But she was doing a lot of underground work. I say, she was in masseuse and she was cleaning houses and stuff. And then she would find a way to make ends meet to take care of her kids. So that kind of like, she was a hard worker. speaker-0: Yeah, so you date for I believe it was two years and then you end up proposing to her, correct? speaker-1: Yes, that's correct. I dated her for about, we did it for about a year and a half. You know, and I brought it over, brought her to around my kids and they were okay with it. You know, they were respectful to her. And then I also brought her around my family, my mother, my father, you know, sisters and gatherings and stuff. they all were, they all seemed like she was, she was a wonderful person around them. They loved her. The way she treated me around them, they saw that. this is somebody that, well, you should think about marrying her the way she is with you. Yes, I ended up proposing to her one evening, got back down, got on my knee and then proposed to her. They were put a ring on her finger and then she started crying. And just thanking me like, you know, like she couldn't believe it though, that she had met me and we were gonna spend the rest of our lives together. So she was very, very happy. And I was too because she pretty, you know, we were. She was wonderful. As, you know, we're dating. speaker-0: Yeah, and at this point you are dating for one and a half years, things are going well, you end up marrying her. Everything is great. It sounds like she's a wonderful woman right up until this point. Were there any signs or any moment where things started to change? speaker-1: I I think they're right off the bat at our wedding night. There was a red flag that I just overlooked and I never thought about it till later on. Remember our celebration, we had a little small wedding and then we had a celebration. It was just family and friends, very small. And I remember her mother had came down from Mexico and her sister, they were there, some of her family members, but I remember her mother. coming up to me in the wedding celebration, giving me a hug, and then she just whispers in my ear, now she's your trouble, and walks away. Yeah, and I'm like, right, okay, what does that mean, you know? And I didn't think nothing of it, but sure enough, guess she was already trying to give me hints ⁓ about her. And another red flag was, you know, her honeymoon. I I asked Lulu, hey, you know, would you like to go? Let's do a reward for paying for our honeymoon. And she said, no, no, no, no, I don't want a honeymoon. That's just gonna cost a lot of money and I don't want anything. just, know, I'd rather we spent that money on me getting my American citizenship, getting my paperwork to get my, be legal in this country instead of spending it on that. It's sure enough for the mean, seems like the week after we got married, she was already applying for a green card, her and her kids. and with the money that would spend on your honeymoon. So I was okay with that because I knew that she, you know, it was rough for her. It was tough for her to get a job and she was scared about getting deported and just being here with a visitor's visa was going to be tough on her and her kids. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, so far, I mean, the comment from the mother is a little concerning in hindsight, but I mean, I wouldn't really think much of it. It sounds like something people could say. You don't know what to make of it. You're, you're, you're in love. So I, yeah, I don't blame you for not seeing that as a red flag and as, as for spending the money on getting the citizenship or the, or the paperwork in order also. makes sense to me. mean, that's not super concerning, right? I mean, it's, it's very normal that you want to get the paperwork in order to start the rest of your lives together. speaker-1: Exactly. That's the same way I thought, I was just wanting to be here legally because she had been here for a while now. She wanted to work and she wanted to help me and she wanted to do things right. And she was tired of working those kinds of jobs. So I said, no, no, this is doing it. So you can, you know, don't have to worry about any of that. speaker-0: Yeah, no, makes, ⁓ I mean, in hindsight, it's easy to flag these things, you know, but I mean, it doesn't sound extremely concerning so far. So you are married to her other than these two red flags. How was the marriage after ⁓ and how long did the marriage last? speaker-1: The marriage was great. mean, the first three years, we were just, it was wonderful. We opened up a business together, a bigger gym, Woodlands Boxing and Fitness, and she helped out a lot financially and helping, opening up that business. We were traveling, doing very well financially. But right after about the third year together, married. I started seeing cracks in our relationship. ⁓ She had an issue with me and her son because her son at that, that's at this time, he was a little young teenager. And I understood because, know, boys will be bored, but he was very protective of his mother. he was, know, ⁓ Lulu would tell me that the reason that he was like that was he never had a father figure and he was very, you know, He did very bad in school with the grades. He started doing bad things, hanging out with the wrong kind of people. So I was trying to put my foot down because in the house, said, man, there's only one man in this house and as long as you live under my roof, you're gonna follow my rules. But he had issues with that. So the arguments started coming with the kids. They were small little arguments. And then it came to the point where now she wants to apply for her American citizenship. And she did. She went on to apply for American citizenship. And because you have to wait three years when you have a green card before you go apply for American citizenship. And that's what she did. And right after she got her American citizenship, that's when really everything changed. She was very, you know, talking, you know, she was just confronting me about everything. And not only that, the night, the date that she had, you know, mind you that I'm the one that signed all the paperwork. I'm, you know, their sponsor here in the United States for her, her kids, and it's me because I'm the American. But when she was, when they went to a war ceremony for the, citizenship papers. I had no idea. She never told me anything. I just remember getting home and I see that there was a party going on, you know, with a couple of her friends and there was balloons and all kinds of stuff. And then she was kind of bubbly. I can tell she had been drinking wine or whatever. And I walked in and she, I said, what's going on here? And she said, well, say hello to your American wife. I said, what are you talking about? He said, you got to know my American citizenship. And I'm like, And you didn't have the audacity to you know, to invite me to let me know what's going on with everything. And I was very upset. I was very upset. And then that's when she said, well, you know, you're always boxing, you're always busy with boxing, you're always busy doing this and that. So I just decided that I used to go with my friends and my kids. I said, that's it. And that was very upsetting, very upsetting. And then after that, it just kind of like snowballed with everything. Things happened at the gym where money was. not, you know, the way the accounts were, they were not adding up at the bottom. We were just, the membership and the amount of money that we were getting was not adding up. And she was the one that was handling all the money. She was the one that was, you know, taking care of all the books. And we're having arguments over that. And it's just got to the point where we just know this is, this is really, this is getting bad and we need to do something about this. speaker-0: Yeah. And ⁓ then you end up divorcing, right? speaker-1: Yeah, I got to the point where we couldn't live together. You we got, you know, we lived in a two story home and she started basically living upstairs with her two kids and then her mother had moved down, moved down to with us for a while and they were living, we were like living together but separate lives. I was living on the first floor of the house and she was living on the second floor but she didn't want to leave and I said, no, this is my house. I'm not leaving my house, you know? So, And And she finally filed for divorce on me. One day she came up with the divorce papers and you know what? And I was okay with it, but the only problem that I had was that on the divorce papers, she wanted all the financial assets. She wanted everything. She wanted the house, she wanted the business, she wanted the company, everything. Basically leaving me with nothing. And I said, no, no, no. Doesn't work like that. I don't know how that works in Mexico, but here in the United States, We're gonna have everything. We're gonna go half. And then she was just, we're having disagreement over the assets and finances. So, you know, that's where it all, and then she was able to kick me out of the house, lying to the police, kicked me out of the house saying that I was abusive to her and her kids. And she put her attorney and her, they were able to kick me out of my own house and kick me out of my own gym. You know, I couldn't go to the gym. And what happened was because I was kicked out of the gym, a lot of the memberships dropped. A lot of people quit going to the gym and she has no finances. Cause I saw her, her money was coming just from the gym and there was no money coming in like it was before. So things were getting very, very hard on her. And the house was not told if I leave this house, I'm not paying any bills. You pay all the bills. And that's what happened. And she would then things from getting very, very tough with. you know, financially. speaker-0: Man, that must have been so difficult. And is this also during the time when you, when Gustavo or Mundo overhears this conversation that she's having? speaker-1: Yeah, it happened a little bit after that and you know, because Mundo is a young man that I, a little backstory on that. Mundo was a young man that I had met back a few years, you when I was training young fighters and amateurs when I had my own gym, nonprofit. And then he came up to my gym one day and wanted to learn how to box. He was a little older, but he was an ex-gang member. You know, he just hadn't been in a lot of problems. They had been prison, been shot. stabbed and all that kind of stuff, but he wanted to change his life around. And he loved boxing, but he never had the opportunity when he was young because his father never took him. He never really had a father figure. And when he came into my gym, he told me his story and I told what I did and how he can help him with the kids. And he sure enough, he just became like my third kid, well actually my third son, because I saved my daughter. And I treated him like one of my kids. We went there together, I mentor him and helped him. And he was, like I said, like another son to me. So anyway, fast forward to he, through the now when with Ludo, we had moved to another location that had lost contact with Mundo for about four or three years, I had lost contact with him. And one day he shows up at my gym and he was like, nothing, you we just caught up. it was like we had been seeing each other forever again. And so. We started a relationship and Lulu at the beginning didn't care too much for him because you know he just looked like a rough guy from the streets with tattoos and his background and everything and at he didn't like him around the gym which he thought that we were going to lose customers because of him but it was just the opposite. People loved him because he would help us, he helped out the kids, he was just a wonderful person. But anyway, so while we're going through this divorce, you know I'm not at the gym one evening And that was because I couldn't be in the gym anyway. Over here is a conversation that Lulu is having with her daughter in the office of the gym. And he just happens to walk by and he overhears a conversation. And later on that evening, when the gym was about to close, Mundo walks up to Lulu and asks her, hey, uh, Tilser basically, you guys need to be careful what you talk about because you don't know who's listening. I was walking by your office and I overheard the conversation that you were having with the daughter. Something about, you know, their daughter told Lulu that there was a kid in the gym that had a family member in Mexico that kills people or kills people for money. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: Mundo was like, you gotta be careful. But then Mundo brought up money. said, this, is this? Because he already knew that Lulo and I were going through the wars. And Mundo goes, is this, does this have anything about Ramon? Something going on? Lulo goes, yes. I am just so tired of him. I wish, you know, I wish he would just go away. I wish he'd just, you know, disappear. And Mundo, let me tell you something. Because Mundo's decision at that moment is the reason that I think that I'm alive today. Because right there, when Mundo told her, ⁓ well, you know, I got some people, if you're serious about it. Mundo made the, you know, so actually Mundo first did the pistol sign. Mundo told her, are you talking about like disappearing like this? And she goes, yes, I just disappear, yeah, like that. And Mundo said, ⁓ well, if you're serious about it, I got some people that can do the job. And her eyes lit up because she was so desperate. was like, I mean, I'll tell you what, let me talk to my boys. And if you're serious, we'll talk. And that's where it all started. That's where it all started. speaker-0: Yeah. So then he overhears this conversation. He pretends to know people that could help her to do this job, but he doesn't actually help her to do the job. He reaches out to you. So what was that like? Did he call you or did he go to your house? How, how did you hear about this and what was that like? speaker-1: I was driving my car and I was, I remember driving and I get a phone call from Mundo and I said, we're just talking. And then he also, goes, Hey, I just want to tell you, I said, what's going on? He said, you know, I think Lulu wants to help you kill. And I said, and I thought he was joking around because I said, you know, Duno's always got to joke. We used to joke around all the time too. I said, Mundo. That's funny, man. You know, know that I started crying, I do And Wundum goes, no, no paps. I believe in paps, I don't paps. She's surreal. You know, had a conversation with her last night. He told me what happened the night before at the gym. And he goes, I seen that look, I seen that look on her face. I seen that look on her eyes that young people have when they want to kill somebody. I know that look. And I was like, Wundum, for real? Yeah, I've not seen that. And he told me that he made a deal with her that he was going to have some of his, you he had some people that, can do the job for her. And I was like, what? And goes, yeah, man, I told that, what are you talking about? He goes, yeah, man, you know, just, I don't know. I don't know if she has a plan B or plan C, whatever, but I just want to get ahead of her because I don't know if she's going to really going to go through it. He goes, well, the plan is that I'm going to go start meeting with her. He goes, I'm going to start recording all the conversations. And she's she's she is. want to know. I want to see she's from real. But I'm you know, that's the window. You know, just be cool. Just be cool. then, you know, I talk to you like I talk to her. That's where it I'm in common. It is with her. speaker-0: And at this point, you're still living with her under the same roof, right? speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. At this point, when I found out about that, I was still living with her, you know, obviously, and I'm first forward. And I remember I had to go home and see her face, you know, because even though we live in temper, you know, but she would always come down on whatever. And I would have to see her. And man, let tell you, I was in sleep. couldn't sleep. was in my room at night. I was sleep basically with one eye open. And I was thinking like, man, what if she really finds, somebody else already that wants to kill me? And I didn't know if I was going to go to the police or whatever. And I did, I didn't understand it. I went to the police and asked them about this. Mundo didn't know that I had gone to the police and asked somebody. So when I went to the police and talked to them about it, they were like, man, we'll go through the boards and what happened and everything. And it was like, I really can't do anything about it because people when they're mad, when they go through the wars, they say crazy things. just, there's nothing there I can do about it. Just gotta be careful. Well, if she does do something, then we have a case. But right now, this is her word, because she totally mad saying that kind of thing. So nothing was ever developed from the first time I met her in class. speaker-0: crazy. So how did this escalate? Because you were in touch with Mundo. Mundo in the meantime was pursuing these plans with Lulu and he was having these meetings with her, recording every meeting, gathering evidence. All of at the same time, you still live under the same roof as Lulu and yeah, it must have been the scariest time ever. So how did this go any further how did you come up with the plan together to fake your own death? speaker-1: Well, yeah, was still living under the same roof with her and then I knew that we had meeting with her about that potential, know, that saying that telling her that he had the guys already that wanted to the job. And the two guys were the two headbands that he knew, for example, his friends in example, Parkwell, and, and, then, but anyway, he knew something that he had all things made up. And she was falling for it because she was desperate. She was desperate for money. And she knew how much money I'm worth. That she knew my insurance, and all the money that I had saved. She knew everything about me financially. We packed the guys, the pack one job, the two guys. And he told her that he had to do the job. But in the conversation that he had heard, he would record and then he would meet with me and Rob. And I would listen to the conversations and then I mean the conversations that they were having and the things that obviously she talked about me. I mean, I'm like, this is the same distance, the same lady that I was married to for so long. I can't believe the words that she was saying, things that she was saying about me, how bad she ate and how bad she wanted me dead again. And she was already practicing how she was going to cry when the police came to that night. I'm not dead. She was, she was so evil. And on top of that, she's in one of the conversations that he recorded and recorded. And she admit to wanting we killed, she wanted to have the killed two years prior to that. we went to Mexico city on vacation. And I had no idea when we were in Mexico city on vacation and Mundo asked her, you know, happened? I had a plan with my sister. that they were gonna, know, they were gonna, you know, maximums all the time. They people from ransom. She said they going hold this for ransom. And then they were going to let me go in them to kill them. And then when I said, well, what happened? We didn't do it. And she said that what I had the fart to do it then, but now I do. And I was like, yeah, so yeah, that was the whole thing. And then. So the conversation came back with her and Wondo kept happening. And then it came to the point that Wondo said, look, you know, we gotta do this. He told her, we're getting ready to do this. You my boys are ready. They need a down payment to get a gun to kill me. And she said, okay. And that's where it started where Wondo came up to me and said, man, you this is what I had to do. We're going to get a burner phone and you're going to play your own hitman. I said, what are you talking about? You're going say that? You want to play your own hitman? said, yeah, I'm going to text in front of her. I'm going to be with her and I'm going to text her. I'm going to text you and we're going to go back and forth on how much we want for the gun. To make the contract for the gun basically. And she's going to think that I'm texting one of the hitman, but I'm actually texting you. I'm like, gotta be kidding me. Yeah, man. That's a little, I don't know how to talk that do that street talking. And he had like, you guys do, I don't know how to do that. So he was teaching me how to text on right there. I don't want to say back to them. That's how it happened. We got a burner phone and he started texting in front of Lulu with me and Lulu thought that I was the hit man. And Mundo was asking, hey man, I'm here with the boss lady. She wants to know what you guys are to do, how much you're going to charge. And I remember texting back, you know, I just want $200 right now cash. need $200 to get the piece. You know, the toy, so I said the toy, the toy was a gun. See, I need $200 to get the toy. And we know, I need that after that. I need $12,000. I need something, you know, we're just going back and forth. And Lulu was right there next to you. And Mundo was showing her the text. And then after you kill them, I'm going to give you the rest of the money. And then she didn't have the money. She said, you know, he drives, you know, he likes to wear his fancy watch. He likes to wear his fancy watch. So when you kill him, make sure you take that watch. Then you take these vehicles and on the car, pick up truck that I had down the road. And goes, you can take that car. That's going be a lot of down payment and jewelry. She paid to get this people. She wanted to give them my own jewelry as a down payment. So that's what she did to him. Because he said once he dies, I want to get all his. money from his insurance and I paid the rest. So I was kind of like a, that's a big bluff. I was like a layaway, layaway plan for a hit man. You know, she was paying a layaway plan. I couldn't believe it. But that's how it all went down. speaker-0: That's, that's insane. mean, that's, that's must've been for you to hear. Yeah. Your, your ex wife whom you had so many good times with talk about you like that. It must've been devastating. At which point did you decide to go back to the police? Because it sounds like you have gathered enough evidence to at least, prove to the police that. She's very, very serious about this. speaker-1: Once he gave us or she, I'm sorry. Once she, you know, gave us or gave Mundo the money, the $200 left, Mundo fell out. That's it right there. You know, that's in tension right there. So we just want to take all the evidence, all these recordings that we have. We don't take it from the police. But he was the problem. Mundo didn't want to go with it to the police. Mundo said, I'm the next gang member. You're not going to believe me. then once you're a gang member, you're always a gang member. He just didn't deal with the police. So you can just take all this evidence and take the money and you go talk to the police. And that's what I did. I went to the police and, ⁓ in person, we're like, you know, they can believe they were like, had never seen a case like that. I had a case that bad in that town where I lived there. And they were like, how is it that they can believe that? How is it that she knows that she's one, this guy right here, she's a good friend of yours and she's been involved with that. And it was just. Um, they can believe it. And then they say on top of that, we need to talk to Mundo too. If Mundo doesn't come forward, it's going to be hard to prove all this. Okay. So I need to, you know, and I had to go and talk to Mundo and I begged him and said, look, man, they're not the police is that they're they don't want to believe me in law. They need to hear from both of us. And he finally agreed that, okay, you know, I'll go. He went over there with me and we talked and turned to the police. And they finally were okay. This is for real. Because the thing was that she wanted me dead by a certain day because our divorce agreement was going to be coming up. And she wanted to have me killed before the divorce agreement was done because she knew if I died after my divorce or after my divorce agreement, my kids can get half my everything. But if I died before, she would get everything. You know, and that's what's the problem. She wanted to die quick. And that's when the police got involved in the body, in the FBI, they bought the Texas Rangers. They brought all these different police authorities and came together. We're going put to do something quick because Lulun was, you know, had already put the money down in this. Okay. They brought in, that's when they said, we're going to bring in an undercover police officer to play. And that was another game of the Hatchpots. speaker-0: Yeah. So where do you go from there? So now the police is on board. They understand the severity of the situation and it has to also happen quick because it has to happen before this divorce date. So you get together with the police and I believe they drive you out to the desert. They dug a hole in the ground. They follow tutorials on YouTube in order to know how to put the makeup on in order to fake this bullet wound. So how did this whole thing go down? speaker-1: Yeah, that was another, you know, crazy, crazy story. I remember that the police had brought me in because they say we need to speak to you only, you know, to bring Wondo because he most of the time Wondo and I would go talk to him and they said, no, we just need to talk to you alone. I said, and then they told me just I want you when you come in. They told me to just come in the back door and they had this little set up in the office when I walked in. There were several detectives, FBI, there was a, it was just people that I didn't recognize on the table. And then, you know, the lead detective pulls out these three pictures of people with bullet wounds on their head. And I'm then looking at it like, you know, what's going on? He goes, well, he's the plan. ⁓ You know, we are going to take you and go. basically fake your death and to show Lulu prove that the hitman has killed you because they already had their fake hitman undercover policeman hitman had been talking to Lulu and now they were ready to put the hit on me. But to show proof they had to take a picture of me dead and that was the plan. So they showed me the pictures and they said, well, okay, tomorrow I want you to go home, get some... change your clothes for like three days and don't tell anybody. Nobody needs to know, not even Mundo, your family. Nobody needs to know anything. We just want to come over here and they wouldn't, you know, do go from there. So when I get there, there's two officers in the office and they say, okay, we're going to come over here. We'll put some makeup on you. I'm like, okay, I'm thinking these guys are professional. So they put this bullet hole and they, you know, took a picture of me and, know, and then they took me. They say, we're gonna take you to the site. It was a grave site. They only drove me there. There's other officers, know, blacked out SUV. When I get there, I say, okay. But it just looked like a scene from some kind of movie, some kind of, it's just a terror movie. It was just, I was like, what the hell's going on here, man? So I say, okay, Ramon, need you to strip down to your underwear and we're gonna put you in the shadow grave and we'll take some pictures of you. I'm like, hold on. I had to deal with it. And then it me look like I was swollen, my belly's sticking out. They threw dirt on my head. I thought it was so degrading. I could hear going around me, was clicking on the 35 millimeter. Then the detectives came and Socy, we're done. Put your clothes on. then they took me to a hotel. that it was about two and a half hours from where I live from Houston. And they said, okay, we're going to put you in this hotel. they said, you're not going to talk to anybody. You're not going to call anybody. I couldn't even take the phone away. And then they had somebody there at the lobby watching, know, some undercover officers. were watching the whole time. And they said, well, we're going to arrest her. And when we arrest her, we'll call, we'll come up here and get you and take you back. And that's what happened. the undercover police officer that was, you know, that she thought that was the hit man, had a meeting with Lulu that night and he showed her the picture of me in the grave and told her that, you know, the job is done. And the video when I later on, when I saw the video of how Lulu reacted when she saw the picture of me with the bullet wound, dead, basically, you know, dead. It hurt so much. said, like, this lady, man, that's how evil she started laughing. She started laughing. You know, thinking that, they put her in her hands up like, kind of like, like she hit the lotto. You know, that's how she was doing. Like she had just hit the lotto. And at least the undercover police officer gave me a little dignity. said, you know, at least, you know, he fought back. He hurt one of my other guys, whatever. But, and then she asked him, he's not getting up, right? speaker-0: Jesus. speaker-1: And she goes, he goes, no, he's dead, he's done. And that was it. She went about her day. It was a nice, she just went, it was nothing. ⁓ speaker-0: Crazy. speaker-1: I remember the next day they called me and I was in the hotel room and they told me, okay, we arrested her, we're go pick you up. And to tell you that feeling that I had was overwhelming. I ain't gonna lie, I had tears in my eyes sitting on the edge of the bed because it was a hate love relationship that I had for this lady. speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: think how we started and then see where we ended. Now everything was just turned upside down and my life was just, you know, horrible. It was just a horrible, horrible, you know, and I just had a lot of feelings come through me. speaker-0: can imagine because you must've had mixed feelings on the one hand, relieved that you're still alive and she's in custody and they have a very, very strong case against her. But at the same time, when it's over, you have some time to reflect on the whole situation. What the hell just happened? And then maybe you start to realize, holy shit, she, she tried to kill me. speaker-1: Yes, it's very true. I mean, I was trying to reflect on everything. ⁓ And how wonderful this lady treated me at the beginning of our relationship, how she was with me, her family, her kids, and how she was with my family. And then at the end of everything, I had to fake my death so she can get arrested. It was just unbelievable. Everything that she put me through, everything that I've lost, mean, financially, know, mostly, you know, friends, I mean, everybody, she just destroyed my life. you know, be people that knew me in the boxing circle, make, you know, telling them lies about me, because she was already creating this persona about me that I was a drunk, that I was abusive, telling people that I was nothing, what they thought that I was, you know, and it was nothing like that. She had, you know, later on they find out, they found pictures that she was trying to use against me. ⁓ you know, I would be in bed asleep, but I had no idea. She would put. empty bottles of rum and liquor and ⁓ bottles of a beer on my nightstand to take a picture. I mean, and then one time she had scratches on herself and then she was complaining on using that against me. And everything was all, everything she tried to do against me was all investigated and not one, not one was true. It was all lies. It was just something that she was trying to fabricate. So when I died, I guess he I only, you he deserved it. Look at the kind of person he was. He was all lies. speaker-0: It's insane. And what happened after she was arrested? Because obviously there's going to be a court case. ⁓ I believe she was sentenced. What was that like? speaker-1: The first hearing that I went to, it was tough too, because it was packed, know, the news made headlines around basically the world. know, the news was all over. And it was a lot of media there, a lot of people were there for her first hearing. And I remember being there and then watching her coming down in the jumpsuit for... was prison clothing they gave her and then she was having the sound of the chains that she walked in. She shackles on speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: We had gone, can you see me now? I'm sorry. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ yeah. No, I can still hear you. ⁓ you, ⁓ the connection filled me the sound of the shackles. sound of the shackles. That's where we left off. speaker-1: Yeah. Just the sound of the shackles as she walked through the, you know, go up to talk to the judge. It just overtook me because of the, in my mind, I will see how, when I first met her, how beautiful this lady was and how she used to dress and how she used to love wearing high heels and expensive clothes. And now she was over here in prison wearing one dollar state shoes and shackles. She did not even look at me once. So. She was in this County prison for about 15 months. And then after that, she decided to plead down because she was sent. Well, she was first when they got it was for first degree solicitation to capital murder. And then after 15 months, you know, her attorney is in her, guess they saw the overwhelming amount of evidence that they will see against her. She would have gone to trial. She was taking a chance of getting life in prison from 60 to life in prison years and then uh So they decided to plead down to a second degree solicitation of capital murder and she was sentenced to 20 years in prison And that was the last time I saw her when they took her away she never looked at me once and but believe it or not, uh, I was speaker-0: Right. speaker-1: They asked me if I could speak, if I wanted to say something to her when she was sentenced. And I said, yeah, you know, they gave me some parameters where I could and can I say whatever. And ⁓ this whole time that she was locked up in prison, my life was still upside down. I mean, I was driving around, I was asleep in my bed, my own bed with a loaded shotgun. Cause I didn't know if she was retaliation. I had guns, loaded guns inside my home. loaded guns with me at all times in my car. was, you know, always paranoid if something could happen to me. ⁓ and he was a tough, he was tough. wasn't either. Right. I mean, my life was just, he was just, said, I was the one that was still, ⁓ you know, in prison, but in my own self. And, ⁓ so when she was sentenced, they asked me to say something to her. And I had a whole speech right now. mean, I was going to let her have it. I mean, I was going to just go and let her have it with everything that I went through. She made my family go through my kids. So when I got up, I just took a deep breath and I said, you know what? I forgave her. I forgive her for everything that she did to me. And when I did that, I could just hear everybody, what? But unless you have gone through some kind of trauma, or something like what I went through, you wouldn't understand. I had so much bottled up anger inside of me, so much bottled up anger that I was afraid that anything, any little thing that somebody would say to me, anything that could happen could spark that emotion and that would go crazy. ⁓ speaker-0: Mm-hmm. speaker-1: When I said that to her, was as if like I was just released of all that pressure, all that stress, all that anger, everything that I had against her and family just, you know what? And I told her that I'm leaving in God's hands, you know? I forgive you, I'm done with you, know? I give that now it's in God's hands. He'll take care of that from now on. And sure enough, it was as if my life changed after that. my stress. It was like I was back to being me. I was able to because I lost everything. had to move. I lost the gym, the house, everything financially. I had to file for bankruptcy. But right after that, thank God, I was able to get back on my feet and financially do well again, to get back to where I was at. Life is great now. speaker-0: That's incredible. mean, forgiving someone after doing such a horrible thing with such premeditation. I mean, it's incredible that you were able to forgive her. Is she still incarcerated today? speaker-1: No, she ⁓ spent eight and a half years behind ⁓ prison in the state prison, state penitentiary in Texas. And then she was released on parole. So she has to do the 12 years that she has left on her sentence on parole, very, very strict parole. But I mean, I was upset when they first released her. But then again, you know, I can't keep that angry. just, you know what? ⁓ Everybody in life deserves a second chance. My hope is that she betters her life and uses what happens between her and me and what she did to understand that, you know, so you can help other people. And that's what I do. I mean, I try to help other men and women that have to go through what I went through. And I hope that, you know, works out for her too. And of course, she can't come around me and my family. There's still a very strict restriction that she has for the next 12 years. I don't know I can't, you know, can't have that anger again because if I don't want to go, I don't want to have that feeling that I had before for her and her family. speaker-0: I can imagine and you already briefly said that I'm very glad to hear that things are going well. you... ⁓ Yeah, you're also helping other people who are going through similar situations at the moment. ⁓ I'd love to hear more about that. speaker-1: Well, I was able to, wrote a memoir. I wrote a book about my life, about this whole drama that happened. My whole story is called I Walked Among Rape. I'm gonna go into detail about everything that happened. I've been able to do speeches around the world, ⁓ interviews, and ⁓ my story has been reenacted on ⁓ all the major crime shows. And it has, transcendent in the world basically and it's helped a lot of I get messages all the time with men men and women that have seen my story and then always always tell me like man you know sorry for what happened to you but I have a family member I have a brother or somebody that is going through the same thing man and then after seeing your story man it's helped him a lot and this was all about you know if I can change one man or one woman's life I think that it means a lot to me speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, it's very strong. Do you think your background in boxing and ⁓ being a fighter has helped you through a traumatizing event like this? speaker-1: ⁓ I think so definitely. You know, ⁓ you know, when you're in the ring, I tell people that is that just a street fight box and it's a controlled anger. You know, it's, you know, you have to control your anger when you're in the ring. You can't just go crazy and just throw crazy punches. It's a controlled anger. think that's what I did mentally, even though I sometimes I will get upset or whatever, but it was still a controlled anger. I had to follow the instructions of the police instructions of. of mundo too and it was tough, you it was very tough. But I think that, you know, knocking the ring again, you know, controlling that anger was the same thing that I had to do to prevent anything going crazy or even doing something to retaliate against her or her family. Because I knew that, look, two wrongs don't make a right. I'm not going to go prison because of she did to me. speaker-0: ⁓ Do you have a message for people who are going through something similar? mean, the situation is pretty extraordinary and specific, but I'm sure there's people out there that are struggling with similar difficulties, ⁓ violence within their household. What do you say to those people? speaker-1: First of all, thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my story with your audience and everybody out there that's listening to this. But I feel like that in every relationship there's ups and downs. I mean, in every relationship there's ups and downs. It's just how you learn from mistakes in your relationship and learn how to get through them mutually and respectfully. You're not always going to be right. the other person I owe is gonna be right. But if you talk and you feel like you can make things work, work it out. There's a lot of help out there. And if things don't work out, look, 50 % of marriages end up in really not divorce. That's what the status, whatever. But learn to that game, man. Things didn't work out. You go your way, I go my way. If we have mutual things or finances together, we split them and we live happily ever after. There shouldn't be a reason why you want to get to the point where mine was the extreme, hurt somebody or even to my point of trying to kill somebody because that person or the reason you don't like him or you want to get being financially set for life is not worth it. It is not worth it. If we would have done things right, she could have been done well financially, being with her kids, her family. And none of this would ever happen. So my message is to everybody that's listening to me, just learn how to talk, respect each other, and for whatever reason, if it doesn't work out, or even if you have kids together, you know, be respectful. And if you come to a mutual agreement that things cannot work out, you know, understand that life goes on and raise your kids together. speaker-0: That's beautiful. ⁓ one final thing about forgiveness. mean, there are so many people, maybe including myself, who hold grudges ⁓ to other people for something that has happened to them. How can people learn to forgive? And why is forgiveness so much better than holding a grudge? speaker-1: From my own experience and from where we are after all that happened and has happened and I've done a lot of research, I feel that when you hold a grudge against somebody or hold a grudge against whatever or hold that anger in your body, that bottled up anger, this makes it worse on you. ⁓ Physically, it's hurting you. Mentally, it's hurting you. You know, can't progress because all you're thinking about is how you're to get back at this person or whatever. And you're not growing this is into me. You don't have control of yourself. That person or that whoever says whatever situation has control of you and you can't progress. You know, this is not going to happen. And yes, it could be. The situation with like mine, I mean, I, I, ⁓ I, ⁓ All I'm gonna do is just hurt myself and hurt my family and what about my kids, my grandkids, everybody? What are they gonna think about me? know? Yeah, you're, the person is wrong or the other person is wrong, but once you sit and you analyze the whole situation and you forgive, man, I'm telling you, I mean, that is the best feeling. That is the best feeling because now it's like, man, I remember when it happened to me. I went home. Yeah, I was a little teared up and I was upset. But you know what? I sold the guns. I got rid of everything, moved on, you know. And life was a whole lot better. speaker-0: Incredible. Is there anything I forgot to ask or anything you still like to mention when we're ⁓ discussing this ⁓ whole story? speaker-1: Well, one, one subject that I like to talk about also is how domestic abuse against men that is rarely talked about media or, or man actually are, don't like to talk about. And it happens more often than people think in my situation. It happened to me and people were like, wait a second, man, you're an ex boxer. You teach people how to fight for a living and you talking about being, you know, the abuse. And he does, he did, it did happen to me. And it wasn't just physically. People think that it has to be, no, that's mental. It's a mental goal. Mental, excuse me, domestic abuse that somebody can control you, control how you live, control your finances. And that's what was going on in my life. And she was doing that to me and I had, you know, and I was falling for it. And I was, you know, didn't know or maybe I didn't want to accept, you know, understand it or accept it, but it was happening. She got physical one time. One time she was very upset and I had no idea. She just came out of nowhere and punched me and cut my lip. And I got up and look at my fighter's. I mean, I was so upset. mean, but she dropped to the ground and started crying and asking me, you know, hit her or, you know, it really got bad. And the thing is this, men need to understand that, yes. domestic abuse happens to men too and everybody out there needs to understand and believe men when they tell you that because that's the biggest problem that we have men do not call the police men don't want to get help men think that this evil thing about them being a man it can't happen to me and it does and that's what happened to me so I talked to men you know I've done speeches where I have men come up to me and give me hugs and start crying on my shoulder saying that they're going through the same thing with their wives and they don't know how to talk to people who are talking or bring it up because they feel like they're not going to be believed and it's So we respect each other. speaker-0: Yeah, so if something's happening to you similar, even if you're a man, you shouldn't be ashamed and you should reach out to someone. speaker-1: Yes, yes and the authorities need to believe man when they do come out, you know, because I've heard of, you know, some people say that they called and they laughed in their face and they just can't believe it. I mean, come on, Respect men when they do say because if I would have retaliated, I would have been going to prison. You know, she would have been OK because it would have been my her word against mine. It gets who goes to prison, the man. speaker-0: Yeah. Well, Ramon, your story is incredible and I really, really appreciate it that you took the time to talk to me today about it and for being so honest about every single thing that's happened. It's a wild, wild story and I'm so glad you're doing better now and that you're safe and sound. Where should people go if they want to read more about you? Maybe where can they buy your book or maybe they can follow you somewhere on on social media or whatever. speaker-1: Yeah, as far as my book, my book is sold on Amazon and it's I walked to my own grave. It's worldwide. You can get it anywhere. And as far as my social media, Instagram is the real Ramon Sosa. It's my Instagram and also the same as the Ramon Sosa on Facebook and anything like that. I try to answer messages as much as I can. You're gonna see lot of pictures of me and my grandkids. That's my love, my life, you know, my grandkids and my kids. speaker-0: Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you so much, Ramon. ⁓ I really appreciate it.