Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Top Chef 18 Winner Gabe Erales Restaurant Success, Mexican Cuisine, and Culinary Mentorship Ep 104

Transcript

Top Chef 18 Winner Gabe Erales Restaurant Success, Mexican Cuisine, and Culinary Mentorship Ep 104 · Chef's PSA Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello chefs, This is Chefs PSA podcast.
• 0:02
  I'm your host Andre Natera. On today's episode, we have
• 0:04
  guest chef Gabrielis. Gabrielis is the chef owner of
• 0:07
  Bacalar Restaurant in Austin and Ometeo in Washington, DC.
• 0:11
  He's the winner of Top Chef season 18.
• 0:13
  This is a fun conversation. We talk about things to look out
• 0:16
  for when you're starting your first restaurant, why everyone
• 0:18
  needs mentorship, the path to success, and we discuss hip hop.
• 0:22
  Stay tuned. Good to see you man, Good to
• 0:36
  see. You.
• 0:37
  I was like it was just last. Week because it was right.
• 0:40
  I was just coming out of target and the elevator door opened and
• 0:46
  I as I was opening it, there was a pit bull standing right there
• 0:49
  in front of me off leash. And I just like, oh shit, am I
• 0:53
  about to get eaten up and it closed like I was like pushing
• 0:58
  the button. I was like, oh please close
• 1:00
  fast, close fast. Anyway, so my heart's beating a
• 1:03
  little bit fast because I thought I was about to get
• 1:04
  mauled by a, by a dog off leash. It wasn't near its owner and
• 1:08
  anyway random. There's always a stray dog in
• 1:11
  the neighborhood and that, you know, for me, I, I see the kids
• 1:14
  running around. I'm like terrified of you hear
• 1:16
  about these kids getting mauled, but that's not to say they can't
• 1:19
  do that to an adult. No, I mean, yeah, exactly.
• 1:22
  One of the things I wanted to talk to you about is you just
• 1:25
  opened up Bacalar and I know you're, you have another
• 1:27
  restaurant in Washington, DC. And one of the things that a lot
• 1:31
  of people ask questions about is they want to understand what
• 1:37
  goes into opening up a restaurant and, and structuring
• 1:40
  deals. And since both of these are
• 1:42
  relatively fresh in memory, what are some things that the average
• 1:47
  person that's looking to open up their very first restaurant,
• 1:49
  what are some things that they should know that they should
• 1:50
  look out for that they don't always think about?
• 1:53
  You know, I think the, the 1st and probably the most important
• 1:56
  one is the, the financial aspect and understanding that, you
• 2:01
  know, if you budget, you know, I'm going to throw a random
• 2:05
  number out there, but if you budget $500,000, you're probably
• 2:08
  going to find another $500,000 in surprises throughout the
• 2:12
  build up process. And, you know, I think that
• 2:14
  that's really important if you're doing it on, you know, as
• 2:17
  as an individual and you're funding it yourself, but it's
• 2:20
  equally important if you're doing it with partners or
• 2:23
  investors, because at some point you have to go back and ask for
• 2:26
  more money and that money needs to be justified.
• 2:29
  So I think the financial aspect of adding X percentage plus to
• 2:33
  your budget for the hidden surprises.
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  You know, one of one of my employees now is, is working on
• 2:38
  a, a side project for themselves that, you know, it's not really
• 2:41
  a restaurant, but it's a kind of an educational workshop Molino
• 2:47
  type situation. And you know, they're building
• 2:50
  out this project, they got this beautiful Molina going in place.
• 2:53
  You know, they found a place that was really cheap rent.
• 2:54
  And then, you know, they come to, they come to work and
• 2:57
  they're just like, you know, there's no electrical to install
• 2:59
  this Molina and the city's got to come and it's going to be
• 3:02
  another $15,000 or whatever. And it's just if you're doing
• 3:06
  things on a shoe steering budget and you've got it all planned
• 3:09
  out to the dime and it's something like that pops up,
• 3:11
  then it's a major roadblock. So I think understanding
• 3:14
  implications of the difficulties and hidden surprises and
• 3:17
  financials and there's always something that's going to come
• 3:19
  up. So I think that the financial
• 3:21
  one is the most important one. Number two is just
• 3:24
  understanding. You know, you think you may
• 3:26
  understand your customer base. You, you think you understand
• 3:29
  the neighborhood, the area, and you don't really understand it
• 3:33
  till you're in it and you see what's happening after you open
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  your doors. So there's a lot of things that
• 3:38
  you, you really can't. Nobody's psychic in this
• 3:40
  industry and no one will ever be psychic.
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  So you just have to plan for the unexpected and and be able to
• 3:46
  adapt and and move around within the space after you get the
• 3:49
  doors open. The unknown unknown when when
• 3:52
  you're opening up something and you know, in your case you have,
• 3:55
  you know here in Baclar, which by the way, people that don't
• 3:58
  know Baclar, I think personally it's one of the most beautiful
• 4:00
  restaurants in Austin. I love the artwork and there's
• 4:03
  so much attention to detail in in the design and the look of
• 4:07
  it. But at what point you know,
• 4:09
  you're talking about the food. At what point do you start with
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  one thing and how quickly would you adjust if you know, people
• 4:16
  are voting with their dollars, so to speak, So maybe they, they
• 4:18
  want this item or they, they're asking for more of this.
• 4:21
  How do you how do you as the chef slash owner look at that?
• 4:25
  Yeah. I mean, I think that's a really
• 4:27
  good play because the restaurant, you know, Merrill
• 4:30
  was one of the partners in the restaurant, also the restaurant
• 4:33
  designer. She did such an amazing job
• 4:35
  building out the restaurant that, you know, we got to a
• 4:37
  point where like, wow, does it feel so nice that this is like
• 4:42
  only a if, you know, the perception is it's a fine dining
• 4:45
  special occasion restaurant. And that's not what we built it
• 4:48
  to be. We wanted it to be a restaurant
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  where you can come every day. And, you know, I feel that the
• 4:52
  menu's really accessible, that, you know, the price point's
• 4:54
  really accessible. So trying to change the
• 4:57
  perception and, and you know, pivot for, for lack of better
• 5:00
  terms, to make everyone understand that you can come
• 5:02
  here and have a, you know, a casual meal every day, even
• 5:05
  though the space feels much more beautiful and thoughtful and
• 5:08
  intentional, is is really, really important.
• 5:10
  And you also have the the Taco Taco window, right?
• 5:13
  Yeah. And then we, you know, we, we
• 5:14
  built that Dormalon taqueria right next door, which is open
• 5:17
  every day from 8:00 to 2:00 and you can go get amazing tacos,
• 5:20
  burritos, tortas. And, and that's the fun part
• 5:22
  because that's kind of been like a creative outlet for us to use
• 5:25
  byproduct in the restaurant. And you know, we've really
• 5:27
  empowered our our taqueros taqueras there to really own the
• 5:30
  taqueria, obviously with guidance.
• 5:32
  So that's been really fun. And I mean, I think the tacos
• 5:35
  are are outstanding, the burritos outstanding.
• 5:37
  You had one last week it. Was good.
• 5:38
  It was good. It was good.
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  I was thinking about, you know, the style of food for people
• 5:43
  that don't know. So I should maybe get some
• 5:44
  context for people that don't know.
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  You and I are from the same city in El Paso, TX, and ironically
• 5:49
  enough, we grew up on the same block, which people don't know
• 5:51
  that. But knowing that, I understand
• 5:54
  the food culture in El Paso. You understand the food culture
• 5:56
  in El Paso, but the style of food that you're doing at
• 5:58
  Bacalar is not necessarily the food that comes from that city.
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  And last week we did a, a dinner at your place El Paso family
• 6:06
  meal. How different is the food at
• 6:09
  Bacalar? Because I think people, people
• 6:11
  have this misconception of, you know, Mexican food, especially
• 6:14
  here in the States and specifically in Texas.
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  It's, it's, you know, enchiladas, it's fajitas.
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  It's, it's, you know, you're playing within these parameters,
• 6:21
  but you've not only colored outside the lines, you're also
• 6:24
  cooking from, you know, your own heritage, your own history and,
• 6:27
  and specific regions. So I, I guess my question is
• 6:31
  tell us a little bit about that and how you came to to the
• 6:33
  conclusion that that's what you wanted to do with your food?
• 6:36
  When I first, you know, started to connect with you, Amelia was
• 6:39
  really suppressed to learn that we grew up in the same
• 6:41
  neighborhood. That's that's amazing.
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  It obviously we the more we dig into it, the, the, the more we
• 6:46
  find how small the industry is, right.
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  And people from El Paso always seem to find each other.
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  But for me personally, you know, my family moved from the Yucatan
• 6:55
  to El Paso. I was born in El Paso, but
• 6:58
  obviously spending a lot of time in Mexico and, and, and whatnot,
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  I was just really strongly influenced by that culture.
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  And I always felt that even living in El Paso that the food
• 7:08
  that I was eating at home was so different from what I was eating
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  in El Paso. You know, there there is the
• 7:13
  borderland cuisine of like northern Mexico influence of
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  like you said, like enchiladas and and Chile Rayanos and carne
• 7:20
  asadas and things like that. And that was more of the North
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  Daniel Sonoran style influence that you find that has leaked
• 7:26
  over and bled into Tex Mex. And, and what you see a lot in
• 7:30
  Central Texas, all over Texas, which is, you know, kind of what
• 7:33
  makes my other project in Washington, DC on Mateo really
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  fun is that I've never really explored that side of the
• 7:39
  cuisine. I've always been so immersed in
• 7:41
  regional Mexican cuisine, but I had always want to really
• 7:45
  explore the roots of where my family come.
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  You know, my dad's side. There's Lebanese, there's
• 7:50
  Mexican on my mom's side, there's Spanish, there's
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  English. And all of them were, you know,
• 7:54
  immigrated to Mexico, born in Mexico.
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  And then we have these these strong Yucatan routes, even down
• 7:59
  into Belize where my grandma grew up.
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  And the diversity of that was so interesting to me.
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  And I think that people tend to forget how strongly influences,
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  how strongly influenced Mexican food is outside of actual
• 8:12
  Mexico. You know, it just didn't, you
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  know, the same way that that, you know, French Creole cuisine
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  in in Louisiana came from outside of the States and
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  influence that there's that same parallel in Mexican cuisine.
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  And I really wanted to explore that in a time where, you know,
• 8:27
  Baja cuisine is having its major moment, a Waha King cuisine is
• 8:30
  having a major moment in in Mexico City street food.
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  You know Mexico City street food's getting Michelin stars.
• 8:36
  Right. So really quick, can we jump on
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  that, tell what, what did you think of Michelin's release in
• 8:41
  in in Mexico and what do you what do you think of some of the
• 8:43
  restaurants getting? At I have a close friend who has
• 8:46
  a little wine bar in Polanco called Malish.
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  And he came to cook at Bacalar. And, you know, it's a very, very
• 8:54
  small 40 seat restaurant and he's doing everything himself.
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  And he's, you know, it's, it's a really, really like small
• 9:01
  operation. But I was just blown away to the
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  fact that the Michelin system saw that and gave him a star.
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  And I mean, I was so happy for him.
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  And so it was, it's nice to see when the the stars are
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  deserving. And it's interesting to see
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  when, you know, like the, the taqueria, like, is that very
• 9:20
  cool? Yeah.
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  But how are the people that are busting their ass everyday, you
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  know, grinding hard to, to not necessarily earn a star, but
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  deserve one. And they're like, oh, this, you
• 9:30
  know, the taqueria that that is putting a piece of carne asada
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  and salsa on the play got a Michelin star, you know, 'cause
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  you know, Michelin. And I'm, again, I'm no expert on
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  Michelin ratings or, or how, you know, stars are rewarded, but I
• 9:44
  know that service is an aspect of it, right?
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  And, and you know, everything beyond including the food.
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  And so how did, how did you arrive at giving a taqueria a
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  star? You know, you hear of these like
• 9:55
  subway sushi places in Japan that get stars or things like
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  that. And it's interesting to me to
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  see how the diversity of that falls out.
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  And there's rumors that Michelin's coming to Texas.
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  I mean, rumors, rumors. A lot of people know, but
• 10:09
  there's rumors. What do you think about that?
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  I mean, what's your stance on them coming to Texas,
• 10:13
  specifically Austin? Yeah, I think, you know, Austin,
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  the landscape in the culinary scene in Austin has changed so
• 10:21
  dramatically over the last five years.
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  But I think more so in the post COVID that, you know, there's a
• 10:27
  lot more money, there's a lot more openings every day.
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  And I think that, you know, there's definitely room for that
• 10:34
  and there's people that that want to go out and spend money
• 10:36
  on that, that type of meal. You know, I think, you know,
• 10:39
  having somebody like like Chef Matt Peters in town who has that
• 10:43
  breadth and that knowledge and experience doing it, you know,
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  is it something that could pave the way for that and and
• 10:49
  probably will. But I think that there's other,
• 10:51
  you know, that the majority of the restaurants, you know, with
• 10:54
  the exception of a few, don't really have that in their tool
• 10:57
  belt to be. You know, I don't think you put
• 10:59
  an Austin Michelin star restaurant on the same page as a
• 11:03
  New York Michelin star restaurant, in my opinion.
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  But that's not to say it can't happen.
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  And I think that, you know, I think that it it's definitely
• 11:11
  can be good for business. It could be bad for business in
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  a time where costs are already high and Austin is a very
• 11:19
  expensive city. It's interesting to see what
• 11:20
  will happen. I mean, you have all this tech
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  money moving in. Elon Musk is here every every
• 11:26
  other podcaster, every big podcaster moved to Austin.
• 11:29
  And so you see this, this money coming in Austin, when I moved
• 11:32
  here 10 years ago, let's call it, it was very different than
• 11:37
  Austin today. Not, not just in what people
• 11:39
  wanted to eat, but also in the style of restaurant that
• 11:41
  existed. I, I think when I first moved
• 11:42
  here, there's a lot of patio seating.
• 11:44
  It was very rustic and people were just, people were just, I
• 11:48
  hate to say they were just throwing shit at the wall and
• 11:49
  see what stuck, but that was how the food felt.
• 11:52
  And now it seems a little bit more deliberate.
• 11:53
  It's a little bit more posh. There's, you know, I don't want
• 11:56
  to say nicer restaurants, but nicer.
• 11:58
  And in terms of design, there's a lot more money spent on
• 12:02
  restaurants now than I think, you know, 10 years ago.
• 12:04
  And so you see Austin evolving with Michelin coming to Texas
• 12:08
  potentially. Now that's not official, but
• 12:10
  that's word on the street. I could see if Austin quickly
• 12:15
  evolving into potentially one of the stronger markets in culinary
• 12:21
  because the chefs here will will adapt pretty quick.
• 12:23
  And like you said, we have some heavy hitters here yourself,
• 12:25
  Matt, you know Kevin, what he's doing with with his whole group
• 12:29
  in to Bell. So there, there's a lot of heavy
• 12:30
  hitters that are that I think are going to push to to really
• 12:34
  put the the city on the map anyway.
• 12:36
  The thing that comes to mind immediately is is, you know,
• 12:38
  Bryce Gilmore and and barley swine and you know, they
• 12:42
  literally paved the way for, you know, tasting menus in Austin.
• 12:46
  You know them and obviously like a place like Wink way back in
• 12:48
  the day and things like that. But you know, you get, you see
• 12:51
  what they're doing at Barley Swines deal after all these
• 12:54
  years. And it's, it's beautiful, it's
• 12:55
  amazing. And you know, there's something
• 12:58
  to be said about having restaurants that don't have a
• 13:00
  lot of turnover in their chefs. And I remember there was a time
• 13:03
  when, you know, there was, you know, 5 chefs at Barley Swine
• 13:06
  and they hadn't left and God knows how many years.
• 13:08
  And, you know, just trying to get a stage there was hard.
• 13:10
  What? What do you think about we, we
• 13:13
  talked a little bit about your restaurant.
• 13:14
  So going back to that, you're, you're coming off Top Chef, I'm
• 13:18
  assuming a lot of opportunities are being thrown at you.
• 13:22
  And especially at that point in time, especially what you've
• 13:24
  done with Bachlard, this is this is the first opportunity for you
• 13:27
  at bat to, to really be a chef owner.
• 13:30
  How did you filter out some of the noise and, and recognize
• 13:33
  that that's not a good opportunity versus this is a
• 13:34
  good opportunity? And what is some of the things
• 13:36
  that you look for, especially advice that we could give young
• 13:40
  up and coming chefs that are eventually going to be in that
• 13:43
  same position that are going to have a lot of opportunities
• 13:45
  thrown at them? I think, you know, first and
• 13:47
  foremost, every opportunity is not a good opportunity.
• 13:50
  And, and you know, a chef told me that once a long, long time
• 13:53
  ago. And it's always stuck to me
• 13:55
  because, yeah, there's a lot of there's a lot of people that
• 13:58
  just talk and they're like, hey, we should do this, we should do
• 14:00
  that. You know, I found this great
• 14:01
  space, blah, blah, blah. And you don't, you don't really
• 14:04
  know what somebody's true intentions are until you're
• 14:06
  actually in it and going through in it.
• 14:08
  But I think, you know, the the most important thing is is, you
• 14:11
  know, if you're financing it yourself, that's one thing
• 14:15
  because ultimately you have complete control of your
• 14:17
  destiny. If you have a handful of
• 14:20
  partners, you have to balance personalities, you have to
• 14:23
  balance intentions. You have to balance really just
• 14:27
  kind of it what their ethos is and see if it aligns with yours.
• 14:30
  And I think that one of the most important things that I like to
• 14:34
  think about is, is what your true intentions are with the
• 14:38
  restaurant and your culture and how you want to treat people.
• 14:41
  And just making sure that that's in alignment with with who
• 14:44
  you're working with. Because if it's not, you will
• 14:48
  find that out and it can change the dynamics in the landscape in
• 14:51
  which you operate. For me, Bacalar and Omateo
• 14:55
  Omateo was actually conceptualized and brought to
• 14:58
  life way before Bacalar in early 2021.
• 15:02
  And I had met the group of the restaurant group that I'm
• 15:06
  working with over there early on.
• 15:09
  And we had started working that in 2021 before, you know,
• 15:11
  Bacalar was even really came to life.
• 15:16
  So it was a really, really different dynamic.
• 15:17
  And you know, it's the restaurant group that has
• 15:19
  multiple restaurants are very successful versus, you know, my
• 15:22
  partners in Bacalar who were just breaking into hospitality
• 15:25
  came from a real estate and design business.
• 15:28
  So those two landscapes were, were different.
• 15:30
  And I think navigating them and trying to align and sharing
• 15:33
  experiences to make sure that you guys have a common goal is
• 15:37
  super important. Do you think it's better for for
• 15:41
  for someone that's looking to raise capital and start their
• 15:43
  own restaurant? Do you think it's better to have
• 15:45
  a lot of investors so everyone has a smaller percent of the
• 15:49
  say, or do you think it's better to have one or two bigger
• 15:52
  investors? I think that I think it's really
• 15:55
  at the end of the day, it's really about how deals are
• 15:57
  structured and you know, what's what's put down on paper
• 16:02
  contractually. At the end of the day, the the
• 16:06
  fact of the matter is, is the person writing the check is
• 16:09
  going to have the biggest say. Yeah.
• 16:11
  True. And you know, and that's, that's
• 16:14
  absolutely fair. Yeah, they're taking on the most
• 16:15
  amount of risk, right? Absolutely.
• 16:17
  Yeah, I think that, you know, I think that that's really, really
• 16:19
  fair and that should always be kept in the back of your mind as
• 16:24
  a chef and the operator, 'cause there's a balance that you have
• 16:27
  to find, you know, and it's really making sure that you guys
• 16:32
  are on the same page and, and want the same ultimate goal.
• 16:35
  And that's, that's probably the most important piece for me is,
• 16:39
  is really balancing that relationship.
• 16:41
  Look, looking at your career and it doesn't necessarily have to
• 16:44
  just be the opening of this restaurant, but are there what,
• 16:48
  what are some of the challenges that you faced as a chef and
• 16:50
  what did you do to overcome them?
• 16:53
  And how do you how do you reframe it?
• 16:56
  My trajectory was so different. It's so weird that I don't think
• 16:59
  it's it's kind of in the cookie cutter ring mold.
• 17:02
  You know, I started working in restaurants when I was 15.
• 17:06
  I have five brothers and almost all of my brothers worked in
• 17:08
  restaurants. So I was kind of always in a
• 17:10
  restaurant, you know, they're hanging out or working for my
• 17:13
  brother. I started working at a steak and
• 17:15
  ale in El Paso when I was 15, and I was.
• 17:17
  Like got out steak and ale. The bread and the the prime rib,
• 17:23
  Yeah. So I was working at the Steak
• 17:24
  and Ale restaurant at 15 years old and my brother had me busing
• 17:26
  tables. He had me doing, you know,
• 17:28
  dishes, maintenance prep. I was doing a little bit of all,
• 17:30
  but it was, it was also really, really exciting to me to be, I
• 17:34
  felt pretty cool to be like, you know, play football in high
• 17:37
  school and I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm gonna go cook some food this
• 17:39
  weekend and do that. And then I just ended up working
• 17:42
  in restaurants all through high school, all through college.
• 17:44
  I moved to Austin to go to UT and study engineering and I
• 17:48
  worked in restaurants while I was doing that.
• 17:50
  Graduated from UT and stopped working in restaurants because I
• 17:54
  was focused on engineering. And then I just realized it was
• 17:57
  really, really something I truly loved.
• 18:00
  And, you know, I had this weird trajectory where I was doing
• 18:03
  both engineering and cooking. And I did that for a really,
• 18:05
  really long time until I got to this point where I was just
• 18:07
  like, OK, this is not healthy. This is not a good work life
• 18:11
  balance. What?
• 18:11
  Kind of What kind of restaurants were you working at then?
• 18:14
  So in college I was still, you know, I was still working at, I
• 18:17
  was working at Steak and Ale. My brother had a Tex Mex
• 18:19
  restaurant in Westlake that I was working at.
• 18:23
  And that was the one I was at for a really, really long time.
• 18:25
  So it wasn't like knee deep head.
• 18:27
  I mean, and also at that time, this was like talking to early
• 18:29
  2000s, there wasn't a lot of big hitter restaurants here.
• 18:32
  Yeah, I mean, it was like Uchi and then everyone else, right?
• 18:34
  Like early 2000s. So there wasn't a lot out there
• 18:38
  at this time, you know, and then, and then I, I was came
• 18:43
  back from, from engineering and, and really started getting to
• 18:47
  cooking again. And you know, also had
• 18:50
  concurrently enrolled in culinary school and went to
• 18:52
  culinary school after I got both my bachelor's and masters in
• 18:55
  engineering. So there is like this parallel
• 18:57
  path that I was also, you know, in two different industries but
• 18:59
  working towards the same goal. Did you miss the engineering
• 19:02
  side? I don't, I mean, I obviously
• 19:06
  there's as a, as a, as a father and A and a husband.
• 19:10
  I miss the balance and the stability that that life
• 19:13
  provided me. But it wasn't as fulfilling as I
• 19:17
  as I'm fulfilled by cooking and being in a restaurant and
• 19:20
  creating and sharing culture and food with people and creating
• 19:23
  memories of people you know. Yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a
• 19:26
  different vibe. We were people that don't know.
• 19:28
  We, we did a dinner at your restaurant last week, El Paso
• 19:30
  family meal, and there was a lot of chefs in there.
• 19:33
  And your kitchen is one of the most welcoming kitchens that
• 19:37
  I've ever done a dinner. And everyone on your team was so
• 19:40
  nice and respectful and, and happy and friendly and willing
• 19:42
  to help. And I mean, you helped me out
• 19:44
  tremendously. And I can't thank you enough for
• 19:47
  that. But it's, it's interesting how
• 19:48
  you create that sort of environment because you've been
• 19:50
  in other kitchens. It's like they don't, they don't
• 19:52
  want you there. It's uncomfortable, but you seem
• 19:57
  to have created a really good workplace culture there.
• 20:00
  Everyone seemed to be engaged on board and honestly sharp.
• 20:04
  All your cooks were really sharp, knew what they were
• 20:06
  doing. Hustle.
• 20:08
  I don't know the name of the young man that was you.
• 20:10
  You said he was maybe 18 or 19. He's like fast good.
• 20:14
  I was watching him work. I was like, holy shit, that kids
• 20:15
  good. He's going to be somebody that
• 20:17
  is a good. Good boy, man.
• 20:18
  He's he's, he's a really sharp cook and he came in 18 years old
• 20:23
  and I'll know, you know, I, I talk about this all the time in
• 20:25
  the kitchen. I'm like, I'll never forget
• 20:26
  Kai's interview. You know, I just, he didn't
• 20:29
  really have much of A resume. He showed up, sat in front of me
• 20:32
  with smacking gum with his mouth open.
• 20:34
  And I was like, Oh my God, who is this kid?
• 20:36
  And I was just like, well, let's just give him a shot.
• 20:37
  And you know, he, he was one of those people who just came in
• 20:39
  and really impressed the whole team and good attitude.
• 20:43
  Yellowstone boy. Yeah, just like the show, right?
• 20:47
  So I, I know you were on Top Chef, Top Chef 18 winner.
• 20:51
  And one of the things I want to ask you, so I had Aaron on last
• 20:53
  week who was on Netflix final table.
• 20:56
  And one of the things that we talked about is for someone
• 20:59
  going on that show. So let's just say someone comes
• 21:02
  to you and said, Hey, I'm about to go on that show.
• 21:03
  I need some advice. What is something that goes on
• 21:06
  if you're allowed to speak to it?
• 21:07
  So maybe you have an NDA and you can't speak to it, but what is
• 21:09
  something that would help someone prepare to to be
• 21:13
  successful on that show that we don't see because we're the
• 21:15
  audience? I think the most, the most
• 21:19
  important thing about being on, on a show like that, And I think
• 21:23
  final I, you know, I watched final table actually, and I
• 21:26
  enjoyed watching Aaron a lot, you know, and, and Tim
• 21:28
  Hollingsworth and all those guys, they were, it was
• 21:30
  incredible. But I think the thing that is
• 21:33
  most helpful for anyone doing that type of cooking is to have
• 21:36
  your own cooking voice. The minute you start trying to
• 21:39
  cook for judges, you fail, you know, you know, if if you're or
• 21:44
  if you're trying to cook somebody else's food and you're
• 21:46
  not being honest to yourself, you see right through that and
• 21:49
  you fail. And I think that I personally
• 21:51
  felt that that's where I was successful on Top Chef in terms
• 21:55
  of my cooking is I had a vision in my mind of what I wanted my
• 22:00
  food to be and what I wanted to express in my food about where I
• 22:04
  come from and who I am. Did you ever have to force it?
• 22:07
  Like I'm just making this up. The the the the challenge wasn't
• 22:09
  that, but fuck it, I'm gonna go this way.
• 22:11
  I never. So I so you see it on TV and
• 22:15
  it's like, all right, your challenge is this.
• 22:17
  Yeah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And yes, you don't really have a
• 22:20
  lot of time to react, but you do have some time to think.
• 22:23
  And in that time to think, I was always thinking to myself, how
• 22:27
  do I make this challenge, this dish, my food?
• 22:30
  And how do I, how do I make it speak to who I am as a chef and
• 22:34
  represent who I am? And that's kind of what I
• 22:36
  always. And the other thing that was
• 22:37
  really important is not trying to do something for the first
• 22:39
  time unless you really had to. I I think that, you know, I.
• 22:43
  Tell people that for interviews, too, Like if you're on a cooking
• 22:45
  interview, don't. Don't make something just 'cause
• 22:47
  you, you, you think it sounds cool and you're in the
• 22:48
  restaurant. Like, only do your greatest
• 22:50
  hits. You might be tired of making it,
• 22:52
  but they've never seen it. Yeah.
• 22:54
  And. You know, showing up, you know,
• 22:56
  showing up to these competitions, you've got to have
• 22:58
  at least 60 to 70 dishes that you can cook out of your back
• 23:01
  pocket with your eyes closed and be able to adapt them saying I
• 23:05
  can do this, this, this, this, this, this.
• 23:06
  Maybe I don't have this ingredient, but this works
• 23:08
  perfectly. So it's not the beef, it's the
• 23:10
  pork, but it's the same, same thing.
• 23:11
  Yeah, you. Know and for me, I think, you
• 23:13
  know, I think I came off that show and everyone was like, oh,
• 23:15
  you know, your sauces and your sauce were this and that.
• 23:18
  That's really something I kind of prides myself on is, is, you
• 23:20
  know, making sauces and moles and things like that.
• 23:22
  And that's that's something I do pride myself for.
• 23:24
  You know, we have a lot of moles at the restaurant.
• 23:25
  We have a lot of sauces and and you know how I Chiles things
• 23:28
  like that. And that's something that I
• 23:29
  think, you know, tell coming up as a young cook, if there's
• 23:33
  three things that you should really focus on, in my opinion,
• 23:36
  is knife work, butchery and sauce work.
• 23:38
  And I think if you have those three tools in your belt, you
• 23:40
  can go to any restaurant and you can excel and succeed and you
• 23:45
  can learn and you can transform. When, when you, when you think
• 23:49
  about the success that you've accumulated in your career, what
• 23:54
  has been the thing that you're like, you know, I could look
• 23:57
  back on my legacy and say that that makes me super proud, or
• 24:00
  I'm really proud of this. Or is there something that
• 24:02
  you're working on that one day you're going to look back on and
• 24:05
  say, if I accomplish this, this is going to be, this is going to
• 24:07
  be the legacy well. I mean, First off, I, I think
• 24:10
  that defining success in the culinary industry has many, many
• 24:14
  meetings and it's yeah. Let's What does it mean to you?
• 24:18
  I don't know, you know, I don't know how to define it
• 24:20
  accurately, to be honest. I, I, what I say that I've had,
• 24:24
  what I consider myself a successful chef.
• 24:28
  I think that I've done a, I've had a lot of great
• 24:30
  accomplishments that I'm proud of, but I think a success is
• 24:33
  something that you, you much like being a cook or a chef, you
• 24:36
  learn every day and you can continue to learn forever.
• 24:38
  I think that success as a chef is really kind of gauged by
• 24:41
  this, this perpetual challenge to try and read something.
• 24:45
  Some people divide it by the number of restaurants, the
• 24:47
  profitability. I think that that's one pillar
• 24:49
  of it. You know, as a restaurateur, you
• 24:51
  know, you want to have a restaurant that's profitable
• 24:54
  and, and can outlive you. And I would love to have that.
• 24:59
  And I think that that's a good definition of success as a
• 25:01
  restaurateur, as a cook or, you know, an executive chef.
• 25:06
  I think that success can be defined by the amount of, of
• 25:10
  talent that you are supporting and mentoring.
• 25:12
  They're going out and also accomplishing things.
• 25:15
  You know, for me, I, I really love to, to support my, my team
• 25:19
  and I give them any opportunities I can.
• 25:20
  And I, you know, that's part of networking in this, in, in this,
• 25:23
  in this industry is like, people always hit you up, right?
• 25:26
  They're like Andre, I'm, I'm looking for a sous chef for the
• 25:29
  strawberry. I'm looking at executive chef
• 25:31
  and for me, if you know, if that ever happens to me, then my mind
• 25:34
  goes to who do I know that's busting their ass?
• 25:36
  Then unless you put them out of the comfort zone, they're never
• 25:38
  going to have this chance. And I'll be like, OK, you know,
• 25:42
  so and so is has been killing it.
• 25:44
  He probably would never have the, you know, the guts right
• 25:46
  now to go apply for this position.
• 25:48
  It's just like, you need to go talk to this guy and get
• 25:50
  yourself out of that comfort zone.
• 25:51
  And that, that's the definition of success for me, is helping
• 25:54
  other people attain new levels. So would you, when you look at
• 25:57
  success, so you have, like you said, there's, there's success
• 26:00
  in the kitchen, there's success in mentorship and helping
• 26:02
  people, there's success with growing what you've done.
• 26:06
  And then there's the impact that you make on the way people eat
• 26:09
  and introducing new ways to think about Mexican food in
• 26:12
  your, in your case in particular, I'd like to talk
• 26:14
  about that. I think one of the things that
• 26:16
  you've done really well, especially here in Austin is
• 26:18
  before Baccalaure, there wasn't a restaurant like this.
• 26:20
  No, no one, at least not that I know of, no one was looking at
• 26:23
  food from Mexico in this city the way that you're looking at
• 26:27
  food. And I guess my question is what
• 26:33
  are some things that you're really proud of with the current
• 26:36
  menu at Bacalar and also hoping to educate people with that
• 26:40
  style of cuisine? Yeah.
• 26:43
  I think that, you know, the food that we're doing at Bacalar is,
• 26:46
  is really, you know, obviously whenever you open a restaurant,
• 26:50
  you want to be different, you want to be unique, but you also
• 26:52
  don't want to create something that's so unfamiliar that it
• 26:55
  scares people away. So we do have things that are,
• 26:58
  you know, low hanging fruit and, and people can identify with,
• 27:01
  but there's a lot of things, you know, for example, we have a
• 27:04
  dish called Kiwis, and it's, it's of Lebanese origin.
• 27:09
  And I grew up eating different varieties of, of Kiwis in my
• 27:12
  household. And, you know, up until I was a
• 27:14
  teenager, I thought that was a Mexican dish because my mom made
• 27:17
  it so much. And that was part of like this
• 27:19
  small little pillar that really drove me to want to do this type
• 27:23
  of restaurant is like all of these different, you know,
• 27:27
  influences of, of, of cuisine that have created, you know,
• 27:31
  specific regions of Mexico is what really kind of drove this
• 27:34
  restaurant. So I think that, you know, what
• 27:36
  I'm most proud of on the menu of baccalares, you can find, you
• 27:38
  know, in each section of our menu, you can find different
• 27:41
  influences that that have kind of grown out of the Yucatan that
• 27:46
  you wouldn't find elsewhere. You know, whether it's Caribbean
• 27:48
  or Lebanese or even, you know, there's some Asian influences.
• 27:51
  There's things that are, you know, obviously like Italian
• 27:54
  even that have kind of ended up in that area.
• 27:56
  And I think in a time where there's so many great Mexican
• 28:00
  restaurants, you know, you look at like, you know, the the
• 28:02
  success of like Fettermine and Swarte and Este and the amazing
• 28:05
  things they're doing there. A lot of other restaurants at
• 28:09
  open try and do what they do and you know, and, and I think it's
• 28:14
  better to let the people that do what they do do it best and, and
• 28:17
  create again, your own cooking voice, your own style and create
• 28:19
  something unique. And that's really what, you
• 28:21
  know, for me, like my mom taught one of the first things my mom
• 28:24
  taught me how to cook with Cochinita people.
• 28:26
  And that was just like, you know, that's obviously a very
• 28:28
  common dish now and you see that in restaurants everywhere.
• 28:30
  But how can we do that better and different?
• 28:33
  And how can we create a unique version of that so that people
• 28:36
  leave with a very, very good food memory?
• 28:39
  And, and that's really what we seek to do is, is take these,
• 28:43
  you know, we have a dish, they're called Polcanes.
• 28:45
  And a lot of this stuff is really pre Hispanic timeless
• 28:49
  techniques and dishes from, from Maya civilizations that have
• 28:53
  just kind of lived on. And part of our, our, you know,
• 28:56
  our ethos there is to educate people to come and eat and
• 28:59
  creating, you know, you know, we have this dish called Polcanes
• 29:01
  and it's, it's, it's a pre Hispanic Maya dish.
• 29:04
  And they take, they would take pumpkin seeds and they put take
• 29:08
  hot stones out of a fire and then put them on the pumpkin
• 29:10
  seeds and crush them and smoke them.
• 29:11
  And then they'd mix them with herbs and Chiles and then they
• 29:14
  put it in masa and then fry them.
• 29:16
  And, and that to me is fucking really cool because you see
• 29:19
  something like that in other, in other cuisines, whether it's a
• 29:22
  frit or something like that, you know, So doing our version of
• 29:25
  that and sharing that with people, it's such a unique
• 29:28
  flavor and texture and, and, and people need to know that, right?
• 29:33
  Or it gets lost. And you can call it modern
• 29:35
  Mexican cuisine, but I don't, I don't really.
• 29:38
  I don't really love the words modern Mexican to be.
• 29:40
  Honest. Yeah, 'cause I mean, it's, it's
• 29:41
  not necessarily modern. It's just like rediscovering it
• 29:44
  it your modern DA. Is going to be timeless.
• 29:47
  In 20 years, right? And nothing, there's nothing new
• 29:48
  under the sun. I, I, I like that.
• 29:51
  I know you spent some time at Noma and I feel like I, I don't
• 29:56
  know for certain. So I want to ask you because I
• 29:59
  feel like when I've eaten at your restaurants a couple of
• 30:01
  times, I've tasted some sneaky fermentation, some sneaky umami,
• 30:04
  and there are things that I'm like, oh, what?
• 30:06
  This is really good. What did you do here?
• 30:08
  Because it's unfamiliar to me because I didn't, I didn't grow
• 30:11
  up in those kinds of kitchens, in those Nordic kitchens or
• 30:14
  anything like that. So when I see those techniques,
• 30:15
  I, I know, I don't know it. So it's new and interesting to
• 30:18
  me. So, I mean, I'm sure you're
• 30:20
  sneaking some stuff. Yeah, I mean, I will, I will say
• 30:22
  like you know, I didn't. So I staged in Copenhagen and
• 30:26
  then I worked for them for the entirety of the Noma Mexico pop
• 30:29
  up. So spending time in Noma is a, a
• 30:31
  relative term. And I don't, I don't, you know
• 30:33
  what I want to clarify on all that, but I will say that the,
• 30:37
  you know, being involved in developing the, the menu for
• 30:40
  Noma Mexico was transformative. And it was the first time ever
• 30:44
  you go into one room and every ingredient out of every corner
• 30:47
  of Mexico was in the same place. And it was, it was amazing.
• 30:51
  And then taking the, you know, the tribal knowledge of, of, of
• 30:55
  Renee and his team in Copenhagen and transforming all of those
• 30:59
  ingredients and you know, these Massa Misas and these, you know,
• 31:03
  the grasshopper garams and all of these crazy ferments and
• 31:06
  shit. I mean, it was really, really
• 31:07
  mind blowing. And that was a lot of what I
• 31:10
  carry on my tool belt and finding ways to use byproduct,
• 31:14
  you know, through fermentation and things like that to like you
• 31:17
  said, kind of sneak flavors in there and, and things like that.
• 31:20
  And it's it's really been transformative.
• 31:22
  Talking to a friend of mine the other day and you know he's
• 31:24
  talking about his restaurant in particular.
• 31:26
  He's like, what people don't understand about my food right
• 31:28
  now is you look at it, he's like, everyone's just looking at
• 31:30
  the food and say they understand it.
• 31:31
  He's like, but you don't understand it because you
• 31:33
  haven't tasted it. Once you taste it, you're going
• 31:34
  to be like, there's so much layers and fermentation and, and
• 31:38
  all these ingredients that you're unfamiliar with in
• 31:40
  cooking processes. It looks like what you know, but
• 31:43
  when you taste it, it's like nothing you've ever experienced
• 31:46
  before. And I, I think that's very
• 31:48
  similar to your food. When I, when I look, it's like,
• 31:49
  oh, I, I, I, I look at sometimes I'm guilty of that.
• 31:52
  I'll look at someone's food like, I get it.
• 31:53
  I don't want to go eat at that restaurant.
• 31:54
  I see what it looks like. I've had that before.
• 31:56
  But then you try, it's like, Oh, that wasn't what I was
• 31:58
  expecting. For sure.
• 31:59
  And that, you know, and, and Kevin, you know, Kevin Fink, I
• 32:02
  think that's something he's done really well at, at Emmer and
• 32:04
  Rye. And you know, Kevin also spent
• 32:06
  some time in Noma and I think that that he carried that with
• 32:08
  himself. Their fermentation program is,
• 32:10
  is probably the best in the city.
• 32:12
  You know, they've got someone, you know, dedicated that solely.
• 32:14
  And yeah. And, and when you're, when
• 32:17
  you're using those layers of fermentation umami and building
• 32:20
  that into your food, it's, it's incredible.
• 32:22
  And, and people often wonder, like, I mean, when you have
• 32:25
  their catch of the Pepe that, you know, they, I think there's
• 32:27
  like fermented tomato water in or something like that.
• 32:29
  And it's like, it's amazing. Used to have a a joke on chefs
• 32:32
  PSA. I was like before they were
• 32:33
  larders they were sauciers. But that's true, before they
• 32:38
  were larders they were sauciers. Absolutely cute.
• 32:42
  I want to transition into the show chefs PSA a lot of the
• 32:45
  people that listen to our young cooks, young chefs and they're
• 32:47
  looking for guidance. So I want to go with like best
• 32:50
  advice from you new cook. What advice would you give them?
• 32:55
  Someone coming brand new into the industry?
• 32:56
  What is something that they need to know right when they start?
• 32:59
  I think first and foremost is to find a restaurant that you
• 33:05
  really that you know, if you want to go work at a restaurant
• 33:07
  to get into cooking, go work somewhere where you absolutely
• 33:10
  love the food. I think a lot of mistakes that
• 33:13
  young cooks make is they go and try and get their foot at a door
• 33:17
  at a restaurant because it's the the coolest restaurant or the
• 33:20
  hottest restaurant, even if they don't love the food.
• 33:23
  And I think the minute you start working at a restaurant and
• 33:26
  cooking food that you don't actually love or inspired by,
• 33:31
  you don't, you don't really find your momentum or your path with
• 33:34
  it and you don't know how to connect with it.
• 33:36
  And I think with connecting with the food that you're inspired by
• 33:39
  is first and foremost the important thing and what you're
• 33:42
  doing as a young cook, because you start to, you know, you
• 33:45
  start to compartmentalize all of these little things you take
• 33:48
  away from you from each restaurant.
• 33:49
  You know, from this run, I learned, you know, how to
• 33:51
  butcher fish this way and this, you know, this specific way
• 33:53
  here. And from this restaurant, I
• 33:55
  learned how to make this sauce and the style of sauces.
• 33:57
  And I can take that with me here.
• 33:58
  You know, you always take something away from me from
• 34:00
  everywhere you work, right? And I think that if you can't
• 34:03
  really and honestly connect with those things, you're wasting
• 34:06
  your time there. When?
• 34:09
  Where's a lot of people leave, right?
• 34:10
  You go cook and you're like, how many times have you as you know
• 34:13
  someone from your you know your caliber a chef.
• 34:15
  How many times have you had a cook say chef, I'm moving on.
• 34:20
  I think I've learned all I've learned here.
• 34:22
  I need something new and it's just like, well did you really
• 34:25
  or you're just bored? Right.
• 34:27
  And, and, you know, honestly, most of the time when people
• 34:29
  have left me, I will, I'm very honest with people.
• 34:32
  Like a lot of people want to hold on to people forever.
• 34:35
  I I don't if they're going to a better opportunity, I will help
• 34:37
  them get that opportunity. And I will be very honest with
• 34:40
  someone who's like, you know what?
• 34:41
  That's a good chef, That's a good kitchen.
• 34:43
  And for what you want to accomplish, you should go there.
• 34:45
  But a lot of times I'm like, you probably should, like you're not
• 34:48
  ready and you don't know it. You should stay here.
• 34:51
  You should grow a little bit more.
• 34:52
  I see blind spots that you don't see.
• 34:54
  And I would encourage you to stay.
• 34:56
  So it's, it's, yeah, sometimes I've never as a chef put the
• 35:03
  restaurant meaning like, hey, I, I don't want you to leave, so
• 35:07
  you need to stay. I might tell them, hey, like the
• 35:08
  timing sucks. Can you give me a longer notice
• 35:10
  or something like that? But I will never steer anyone
• 35:12
  wrong. Like, hey, if it's a good move
• 35:13
  for you, it's a good move for you.
• 35:14
  I'm not going to hold you back. If someone is in a kitchen and
• 35:18
  you're the chef, how do you recognize the next sous chef?
• 35:22
  What are some, what are some things that they do that make,
• 35:25
  you know, say, OK, they got it. I'm I have my eye on them and
• 35:28
  I'm going to work with them to help them become sous chef.
• 35:32
  You know, for me, it's kind of the, the, the age-old adage of
• 35:35
  integrity. And you know what they say
• 35:37
  integrity is, is what you do and nobody's looking right.
• 35:40
  And I think that identifying the cooks that are doing things that
• 35:46
  a chef would, you know, quote, UN quote, chef would do without
• 35:49
  having them ask him to do it and making decisions that not only,
• 35:54
  you know, as a chef, you're looking, you know, you're not
• 35:56
  just looking to make decisions that affect the, you know, the
• 35:58
  food or the, the guests like that you're, you're looking at
• 36:01
  financial decisions. And when you have a cook who
• 36:04
  understands that early without being told to, and it's like
• 36:06
  making decisions that help the financial, you know, interests
• 36:10
  of the company, then that's already like a stepping stone
• 36:13
  of, of where they're at. So I, I look at, I look at cooks
• 36:15
  that understand the all aspects of the business without knowing
• 36:20
  it, and they're doing that on their own and that have really
• 36:22
  strong fundamentals and are very, very, you know, interested
• 36:28
  in learning constantly and growing and, you know, are not.
• 36:31
  Lazy. Do you?
• 36:32
  I, I know this this for me, but I'm just curious for you.
• 36:35
  Do you normally recognize someone early on in their
• 36:38
  career, like even if they're super green, like they got it?
• 36:41
  Do you do you notice that right away?
• 36:42
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 36:43
  I think that there are certain things you can see in a cook
• 36:46
  very, very early on that you just, you know, you can't teach.
• 36:49
  And I think that all, you know, as, as executive chefs or chef
• 36:53
  owners, you see that right away and you know, you know, I've
• 36:55
  seen very, very green cooks come in and you're like, plate this
• 37:00
  up and they just plate this up and you're like, holy shit, that
• 37:02
  looks amazing. I mean, and obviously plating is
• 37:04
  one thing and that's a very artistic form, But also, you
• 37:07
  know, if you show some for me, like one of my biggest
• 37:10
  frustrations is when a, when a, when a cooker, somebody makes
• 37:13
  the same mistake twice in the kitchen.
• 37:15
  And I think that I like to look for cooks that understand that
• 37:20
  you're going to fuck up, you know, you're going to make
• 37:22
  mistakes. We're all going to, you know,
• 37:23
  one of the first thing I tell my team is like, Hey, I'm, I'm
• 37:26
  never going to say that I have all the answers.
• 37:28
  I'm never going to say I, I, I'm not going to learn from you.
• 37:31
  But what I don't want is for all of us to make the same mistake
• 37:33
  twice. And I think when you see that
• 37:35
  they're cooks that are not making the same mistakes twice
• 37:39
  and they're growing from every mistake they do make, then you
• 37:42
  know they're on the they're on the trajectory to be become
• 37:45
  great. If if if you had someone right
• 37:50
  now that you were mentoring as a chef and you wanted to give them
• 37:55
  really good advice so that they could speed their career up,
• 37:58
  what advice would you give them? Something I never did in my
• 38:03
  career, you know, in my culinary career is documenting what my
• 38:09
  Rd. my trajectory and road meant.
• 38:11
  And I think that people are just kind of like, you know, let's
• 38:14
  see where the wind takes me. And I think it's really
• 38:15
  important to be to treat your, your culinary career, even if
• 38:19
  you're just a cook or a chef, as a business and create like a
• 38:23
  business plan for yourself and say, this is where I want to be
• 38:25
  in year one. Just wanna be, wanna be in you
• 38:27
  too. This is what I want to
• 38:28
  accomplish. These are my goals.
• 38:30
  And setting goals and finding some kind of tangible, you know,
• 38:34
  end result for each of them gives you something towards work
• 38:37
  too. And it it basically is a metric
• 38:39
  for who you are as a person. And when do you know when to
• 38:42
  walk away like? Walk away from cooking or your
• 38:45
  goals or. Way like I've been in this
• 38:48
  kitchen for too long and chef says I'm not ready.
• 38:51
  I think I'm ready or I'm not happy.
• 38:53
  Like at what point if you're, if you're guiding in a young cook,
• 38:56
  at what point do you say, you know what you need to walk away
• 39:00
  and maybe go to a different kitchen or go to a different
• 39:02
  industry? Well.
• 39:04
  That's where I think the importance of, of, of anybody at
• 39:08
  any level having a, a mentorship.
• 39:10
  And I think that having someone to mentor you, you know, call it
• 39:15
  the kitchen therapy if you will, but you know, to ground yourself
• 39:18
  in that because a lot of times you're asking yourself these
• 39:20
  questions internally, right? You're like, am I ready?
• 39:22
  Am I failing? Am I not ready?
• 39:24
  Am I good enough? And it's good to have, you know,
• 39:26
  I, one of the things that I wish I would have done earlier in my
• 39:29
  career is, is find someone that's a, a culinary mentor and
• 39:33
  find someone that's a business mentor and use them as, as
• 39:36
  guidance on, on decisions I make in my life.
• 39:39
  That's an interesting point. You're the first person that
• 39:41
  I've ever talked to that has like we probably a lot of us
• 39:45
  have thought of it, but not everyone's really put that out
• 39:47
  there is I do think it's important, like the culinary
• 39:50
  mentor and the business mentor are not always the same.
• 39:52
  Yeah, they're definitely, yeah. Because sometimes you can work
• 39:54
  under a great chef that can that knows how to cook and will take
• 39:57
  you very far in the kitchen. But they they couldn't tell you
• 40:01
  how to open up a business or run a business.
• 40:04
  Yeah. So I think that's an excellent
• 40:05
  point. And I think that it's kind of
• 40:07
  similar to, you know, obviously, I think for, for people in
• 40:12
  general, like going to going to therapy post COVID is, was a
• 40:16
  more common thing, right? Like people just started wanting
• 40:20
  to deal with their emotions and their thoughts.
• 40:21
  And, you know, and I think prior to COVID, especially in the, the
• 40:25
  Latino community, it was very taboo.
• 40:27
  And it's just like, you know, but I think that there's a
• 40:29
  parallel there. It's just like, it's OK to go
• 40:33
  find someone to give you guidance in what you're doing in
• 40:35
  your career, to tell you if you're on the right track, to
• 40:37
  tell you if you're wrong, to tell you if you're crazy or not.
• 40:40
  And it it's super important. What's something that you're
• 40:42
  working on now that you're excited about?
• 40:44
  Well, I love both of the restaurant projects I'm working
• 40:47
  on right now. They're so completely different.
• 40:49
  And I'm excited about the food. I'm excited about the team.
• 40:53
  And you know, I, I never really call the food in any of the
• 40:56
  restaurants my food. I always call it our food
• 40:58
  because I strongly believe that a menu, whether you know you
• 41:01
  truly created the dishes yourself or not, are really
• 41:04
  compiled of, of the team, you know, And I always, I always
• 41:06
  tell everyone, it's not my dish, it's our dish.
• 41:08
  That's a good way to put it in. I don't want it to be my dish.
• 41:11
  But the other thing is, you know, I got involved last, last
• 41:14
  year with a, a nonprofit called Hands Offering Hope.
• 41:17
  And basically it's a small, it's, it's in a small Maya
• 41:21
  community where they are creating a culinary school to
• 41:25
  help train children of the community to become chefs.
• 41:30
  And, you know, there's a lot of funding.
• 41:32
  The founder is named Amy Dominguez.
• 41:34
  She is up in the Northeast and she she met a her partner in
• 41:38
  Mexico and they've been really been focused on it.
• 41:40
  And they bring all these veterans of the culinary
• 41:42
  community from all over the US And we take trips down there and
• 41:46
  we do cooking classes and we help, you know, there's part of
• 41:49
  the team, the director of the board who has worked with the
• 41:51
  CIA and brought curriculum. And it's, you know, it's a very,
• 41:54
  very, very poor community. But there's this opportunity for
• 41:58
  people to to really pour their heart into something.
• 42:01
  And there's such a wealth of culinary history and knowledge
• 42:06
  that can be amplified through that.
• 42:08
  And I think it's really, really cool and exciting.
• 42:10
  So we went out there in January, I believe, and you know, we had
• 42:14
  this big dinner for the community and there was all
• 42:16
  these chefs. And there was one chef there by
• 42:18
  the name of Chef Wilson Alonso, who's like a traditional Maya
• 42:21
  cook. He has a restaurant called Yasha
• 42:24
  where he also does classes. And he showed up and I, I've
• 42:28
  never seen a chef do so many cooking demos simultaneously.
• 42:33
  Like he literally had like 4 demos set up and he just put the
• 42:36
  ingredients on the table and he and I was like, Oh my God, this
• 42:39
  is gonna be a disaster. Like these kids don't know
• 42:41
  anything they're doing. And, and then like 45 minutes
• 42:43
  later, all of these kids are making these amazing dishes.
• 42:46
  There's a PIB in the ground. I was just like, blew my mind.
• 42:49
  So it was, it was super inspiring.
• 42:51
  It was super inspiring to go cook with these kids.
• 42:53
  And you know, they look up to you as inspiration, you know,
• 42:58
  and hope. And it's just, you know, I never
• 43:00
  forget when I was leaving on the last day, there was just,
• 43:02
  there's a young, a, a younger cook who came up and was just
• 43:05
  like tears in her eyes. I can't wait till I graduate.
• 43:08
  I want to go cook with you in Austin.
• 43:09
  And then it's just like, you know, the minimal amount of, of,
• 43:13
  of work that you put in a small period of time impacts lives
• 43:16
  tremendously. And, and it's really, really
• 43:19
  inspiring. So Chef I, I know you're a big
• 43:21
  hip hop fan. Me too.
• 43:22
  We've been to a couple of concerts ago, went to Pusha T
• 43:24
  and then we were both at the Wu Tang Nas concert.
• 43:27
  You play music in the kitchen. Always.
• 43:29
  Why I I don't I, I never, I never play music in the kitchen
• 43:33
  and. My, you know, my current CDC
• 43:36
  doesn't like, loves quiet in the kitchen.
• 43:38
  So, you know, there's a little balance.
• 43:40
  I, I know when, when chef is, is expoing and closing it down.
• 43:44
  I respect that. All right, no music.
• 43:45
  But if, if I'm closing it down and I'm expoing, there's going
• 43:48
  to be music playing. What do you play?
• 43:50
  It's a mix. You know, I, I always have a
• 43:52
  mix, you know, from, from hip hop to cumbia to classic rock to
• 43:59
  alternative to, you know, from everything.
• 44:01
  But, you know, I really love, I love hip hop.
• 44:03
  I love classical music. I love, you know, I'm, I'm even,
• 44:06
  you know, a pretty big country music fan.
• 44:09
  So it's just a mix. And, you know, one of the things
• 44:11
  I always do is I always ask the kitchen straight.
• 44:13
  I was like, is this distracting anybody?
• 44:15
  You know, do you guys want me to turn this off?
• 44:16
  And everyone's always like, no, no, no.
• 44:18
  Yeah. And, you know, in the minute
• 44:19
  when the printer's going off and there's chaos and servers are
• 44:22
  coming in asking questions, I, I just love to have the music in
• 44:25
  the background kind of driving the rhythm of the momentum.
• 44:27
  And music has just been such a big thing in my life, you know,
• 44:32
  going back to high school, like. It's divisive in kitchens,
• 44:35
  though, because, because I did a chef's PSA once, I was like, no
• 44:38
  music in the kitchen. So I got so much shit for it.
• 44:40
  And they're like, how dare you, blah, blah.
• 44:41
  I was like, really? I didn't realize it was such a
• 44:44
  big thing. Like, I didn't know people were
• 44:46
  that passionate about having music in the kitchen.
• 44:49
  Yeah. So for me, I like a quiet
• 44:51
  kitchen, but I mean, if I'm in someone else's kitchen, I
• 44:53
  adjust. Yeah, no, I mean, you take the
• 44:55
  music out of the AM prep team kitchen and usually things are
• 44:58
  gonna. Follow I've I've had to break up
• 44:59
  fights before because the cumbias you know, someone wanted
• 45:03
  a certain song, someone wanted another and these two girls in
• 45:05
  garmage starting fist fighting. I'm like after that I was like
• 45:08
  no more radios in the kitchen. It's.
• 45:09
  Interesting too, because sometimes it it's a matter of
• 45:12
  who gets on the radio 1st and you're just like, you know,
• 45:14
  there's people talking shit about what are you playing and
• 45:16
  this that this is driving me insane things like.
• 45:20
  Drake versus Kendrick, is that what they're playing?
• 45:23
  Did you listen to that? What, what, what?
• 45:25
  Who'd you think won in that battle?
• 45:27
  In that beef. I've never been, you know, I
• 45:29
  think Drake has some great, some great hits and I, I don't want
• 45:32
  to take anything away from what he's accomplished, but I, I
• 45:34
  really felt like Kendrick. Lamar was smoked him.
• 45:36
  He was kind of smoking. He murdered him.
• 45:37
  He murdered him. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 45:39
  I was listening to that at first.
• 45:40
  I heard Drake and I'm not a big Drake fan either.
• 45:42
  There's a couple of songs that I like that are catchy, but I I
• 45:46
  like that. I like that gangster shit like I
• 45:48
  want I, I, there's a Raekwon quote that I like.
• 45:51
  He says, I want to listen to music that makes me want to
• 45:53
  punch someone in the face. Like that's the kind of vibe I
• 45:56
  want. I like that, that intense hip
• 45:57
  hop. So when I listen to Drake, it's
• 45:59
  like it's not my thing. There's a couple songs that I
• 46:01
  like, but I thought when he came out, I was like, let's see what
• 46:03
  he does to Kendrick. And when Kendrick came back, I
• 46:05
  was like, oh God, like just stop, make it stop.
• 46:08
  Like it's it that you're watching a a train wreck.
• 46:10
  Now he's just, he's dragging him, but OK.
• 46:14
  Mount Rushmore of hip hop. Who?
• 46:15
  Who's on that Mount Rushmore of hip hop for you?
• 46:18
  Cass you know, I kind of break it up into to eras for me.
• 46:23
  You know, you have like The Pioneers of like Run DMC and
• 46:27
  KRS-one and and the Beastie Boys and all of these guys that kind
• 46:31
  of laid the foundation when Def Jam Records was really getting
• 46:33
  going. And then there's the kind of
• 46:36
  this, this early era where it, it was people like, you know,
• 46:40
  Snoop Dogg and Eazy E and Doctor Dre and N.W.A.
• 46:44
  You know, I remember when I was listening to N.W.A on a, on a
• 46:46
  memorex tape that I probably should have been listening to
• 46:49
  and my mom would come in. She didn't know a lot of English
• 46:51
  at the time, but she knew I shouldn't have been listening to
• 46:53
  that. So that stuff was really,
• 46:55
  really, really cool to me. You get up, but then you get
• 46:57
  into the era of like, you know, when, when Tupac and Biggie were
• 47:00
  battling, you know, for me, Tupac is, is probably the
• 47:04
  greatest for me. I, I love Tupac.
• 47:06
  And then Wu Tang was kind of in their own division of their own.
• 47:10
  And then, you know, I think about like really, really
• 47:12
  talented producers, you know, people like Pharrell and and
• 47:15
  Timberland and and and that. Do you like any of the new
• 47:18
  rappers? It's really, it's so different
• 47:21
  for me, you know, it's so different for me to see like,
• 47:24
  you know, Kendrick Lamar style and you know, and you know,
• 47:27
  Childish Gambino and things like that, you know?
• 47:29
  They're more a lot like they sing a little bit more where
• 47:31
  before they were talking and telling, you know, there was a
• 47:33
  lot more story. Now I think it's it's just a
• 47:35
  little bit. Different, yeah.
• 47:36
  You know, for me, I love Pusha T He's one of my favorite artists
• 47:40
  right now. I think his his style and his
• 47:43
  flow and it's it's just the beats and everything is really,
• 47:45
  really incredible. I think a lot of it has to do
• 47:47
  with production. Who produces it?
• 47:50
  But you know the landscape has changed quite a bit and you know
• 47:53
  you can never go wrong with the classics.
• 47:54
  So best album of all time, was it All Eyes on Me, Tupac's If
• 47:59
  you, if you had to say like there's one album that you could
• 48:01
  listen to forever if you had to, what's that album?
• 48:03
  I think all eyes on me was was definitely up there for me for
• 48:06
  sure. It's.
• 48:07
  The greatest hip hop song. Greatest hip hop song?
• 48:10
  That's a tough one for me. I'd love to know yours up.
• 48:13
  Greatest album for me. Hip hop one that I could just
• 48:16
  listen to start to finish over and over.
• 48:18
  Like I was probably listening to it on the way here is only built
• 48:21
  for Cuban links Raekwon like I I just like I love that album and
• 48:24
  the more I listen to it, it's new sometimes like I hear lyrics
• 48:27
  that I didn't hear before. It means something different.
• 48:30
  So only built for Cuban links. I love the purple tape.
• 48:34
  Best Song for me though, is New York State of mind by Nas.
• 48:36
  And I I think about that because someone told me that he wrote
• 48:39
  that when he was 16. Pre Google, you know, just
• 48:42
  looking at books and dictionaries, like man, he
• 48:45
  paints such a vivid story. I couldn't write that now with
• 48:48
  AI and Google and all this. I couldn't do that now.
• 48:50
  And he was doing that before all that.
• 48:52
  So that those are my two. Great.
• 48:53
  How many? Rappers do you think are using
• 48:55
  AI these days? All of them.
• 48:57
  But yeah, I think they're all using AI by the way, 'cause I
• 48:59
  like, I use a lot of AI, you know, for editing and whatnot.
• 49:03
  And I'm good at it. Like I've like I, I've
• 49:06
  understand how to leverage AI And what I will say is that
• 49:11
  because I use it a lot, I recognize it now.
• 49:13
  Like it, it almost leaves like a thumbprint.
• 49:15
  So you could almost see like, OK, that person's using.
• 49:17
  I recognize it and I recognize it now sometimes in hip hop
• 49:20
  songs. I'm not a huge Eminem fan, so I
• 49:22
  don't want, you know, I'm not here to, to, to hype on that.
• 49:25
  But I'm just he's one of those artists where I listen to his
• 49:27
  lyrics. I'm like some of the shit he's
• 49:29
  saying is really genius. Yeah, really is.
• 49:31
  He's really good. I think Jay-Z is is also a very
• 49:34
  very, very very well written lyrical rapper as well.
• 49:38
  So you're Mount Rushmore. How many was that?
• 49:40
  Four. Four people on Mount Rushmore.
• 49:41
  Who's who's on Jay-Z? Jay.
• 49:44
  Z. Tupac.
• 49:45
  Tupac. And one more man I.
• 49:48
  Love Busta Rhymes. Yeah, yeah.
• 49:50
  There you go. And just he's also in his own
• 49:53
  category himself. So as a group though, De La
• 49:56
  Soul. Yeah, yeah, De La Soul is great.
• 49:58
  So taking that same spirit of greatest hip hop of all time,
• 50:02
  Mount Rushmore, who's the Mount Rushmore of chefs for you?
• 50:05
  Who goes on that on that mountain?
• 50:06
  Mount Rushmore Chef Jeez, you know, for me, I think it's a
• 50:11
  little bit different. But you know, I definitely think
• 50:14
  that people that have inspired me and a lot of that started
• 50:20
  with cookbooks, right? So it was like, you know, buying
• 50:22
  the French Laundry cookbook was one of them.
• 50:25
  Parber Paul Bertelli You know, cooking by hand was a very
• 50:28
  inspirational cookie. And I'm not even like a big
• 50:29
  pasta cooker too. But that cookbook was was really
• 50:32
  inspiring to me. Ricardo Monusa Rizuruta from
• 50:35
  Mexico Renee Rezepi, Ilan Ducasse is.
• 50:42
  That your 4 Ducasse Rezepi? Who'd you say?
• 50:45
  Who's the other two? Ricardo Munoz, Ceritas.
• 50:49
  And and who was the 4th? Paul Bartelli there.
• 50:52
  You go chef, last question before we wrap it up.
• 50:54
  It's always good to see you. But last question for the
• 50:56
  audience that's listening. You have a billboard out there,
• 50:59
  Gabe's chef's PSA, either what to do or what not to do in the
• 51:02
  kitchen. What do you want people to start
• 51:03
  doing or stop doing? Is being disrespectful to each
• 51:06
  other and start doing is working cleanly.
• 51:11
  Well, what do you use I. Mean, obviously I, I do, I do
• 51:15
  them every day. I'm starting to run out of
• 51:16
  material. That's why I'm asking you if I
• 51:18
  had a number one chef's PSA, it would be, it's better to be the
• 51:22
  worst cook in a great kitchen than the best cook in a terrible
• 51:25
  kitchen. And then that would be #1 the
• 51:28
  second most important chef's PSA is, I always say this, the most
• 51:32
  important chef's PSA is the right way to do it is the way
• 51:36
  they do it, where you're at, the way the chef wants it done, the
• 51:38
  way the restaurant wants it done.
• 51:39
  That's the right way to do it. Those would be my top two.
• 51:41
  Third one is like working kitchens that you aspire to run.
• 51:45
  Yeah, I think the other one for me too is also find the hardest
• 51:49
  job to do in the kitchen. That's that's a big one for me
• 51:53
  is like you always see the you always see the cooks and look at
• 51:55
  the prep list and go write their name by the easy shit, the easy.
• 51:59
  Radishes. Like no one, you know, no one
• 52:02
  wants to do, you know, the clean artichokes or anything like
• 52:06
  that. So I think, you know, one for me
• 52:07
  is find the hardest job to do in the kitchen and take that on.
• 52:11
  Awesome, brother. Well, it's good seeing you.
• 52:12
  Yeah, man. Good, good seeing you.
• 52:13
  Honored to be here. This is super.
• 52:15
  Cool. And yeah, you're.
• 52:16
  Really inspired by what? You're doing, obviously, you're
• 52:18
  always welcome. All right, brother.
• 52:20
  Well, I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Gabe and I.
• 52:22
  If you want to support the show, you know what to do.
• 52:23
  If you're watching on YouTube, hit the like and subscribe
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• 52:28
  sure you leave five stars. Nothing less than five stars.
• 52:30
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• 52:32
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• 52:34
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• 52:44
  We'll see you next week. Hit the porno music.
• 52:47
  No spawn drink in the kitchen. Mix it.
• 52:49
  Dropping chef dollars, no fiction, stirring up the beats,
• 52:52
  heating up the session. Listen quotes classes Incest.