Latest / The TalkBlock Show's Podcast / How Septemics Can Upgrade Your Life | Book Interview with Author Jim Marshall

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How Septemics Can Upgrade Your Life | Book Interview with Author Jim Marshall · The TalkBlock Show's Podcast

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to the TalkBlock Show.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: My name is Vadim, and today we are joined by Jim Marshall.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_03: He's a scholar, author, and human development engineer.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: Jim has spent over 50,000 hours studying human potential.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: He is the creator of a system called Septemix.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: It maps human behavior using 35 distinct seven-level scales.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Jim, welcome to the show.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Nice to see you.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Fadim.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Glad to be here.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so uh we can start with uh probably a very simple and basic question.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh can you briefly explain what is septemics?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: What the business.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the first thing I should say, just to give a general context for your viewers, is that I am the discoverer of hitherto unknown natural phenomena, which greatly aid in the understanding of people, from which I crafted a revolutionary practical philosophic system called septemics and published it in the book, Septemics Hierarchies of Human Phenomena.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Septemics is a philosophical science based on the fact that many phenomena related to human beings occur in a sequence of seven levels.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, the word septemics means of or pertaining to seven.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's seven, it's a Latin or something, right?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_02: Septem in Latin is seven.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Temic comprises a collection of scales or sequences, each of which breaks down various human phenomena into a hierarchy of seven steps.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: Each of these 35 scales is unique, and there are 35 of them, and together they span the spectrum of human experience.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: By which I mean any problem, dilemma, difficulty, situation that any person has regarding people can successfully be analyzed by one or more of these scales, usually more than one.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I see.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: And how how did you come to discover this?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like where where it started from, where the that spark?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like how did you have you started seeing the pattern in people's behavior?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: Your relatives or uh friends, co-workers?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the first thing I should say is that um I was a natural-born polymath.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: I have absolutely no memory of the time when I was not intensely interested in learning everything taught in every university.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: Now, of course, that's impossible because nobody lives that long, but the drive was there.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: So when I was 16, I was accepted into engineering school.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, at the time I thought I was going to be engineering physical things such as airfoils and electrons and gears and such.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: But by the time I had my bachelor's degree, it was obvious to me that I wanted to engineer the human psyche.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because it is the area of greatest unknown, of greatest mystery, and more importantly, it's the area in which we as a race are failing miserably.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: 95% of the problems in industrialized society are because people don't understand people, don't understand the spouse, don't understand the child, don't understand the parent, don't understand the boss, don't understand the employee.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's a gigantic problem that everybody has, and Septemix solves that problem across 35 axes.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: Meaning, given any particular set of facts, you have 35 different ways of going at it to resolve.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so uh to make a long story short, I had a long career as a human development engineer where I worked one-on-one with hundreds of clients of every description, uh, using engineering principles, engineering tactics, engineering strategies, engineering devices, engineering techniques, and so forth to help the client to attain higher levels of wisdom, equanimity, responsibility, mental clarity, depending on what the client wanted.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: All of my clients improved as a result of our work together.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: But incidentally, I started to notice that I could predict the outcome of the session.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that suggested to me, coming from a hard science background, that there had to be something underneath this that was predictable.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: That thing turned out many decades later to be septemics.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Although, of course, at the time I didn't know that.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So what was happening is um I would a client would come to me, uh, let's say he would say, I can't get along with women.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: Can you help me?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: I say yes.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: So he we start working together.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, you have to realize the clients had absolutely no idea what I was doing, I always doing it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, I was using uh Socratic dialogue aided by biofeedback.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: And most people didn't have any idea with either with either of those things were, but I never mentioned it anyway.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: But so they would have insights, but the insights would be about their specific thing.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, excuse me, we get into a half-hour into the session, the guy says, Oh, now I see why I can't get along with women, it's because blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: See, he wasn't figuring out what I was doing, he was figured out what he was doing.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: So Okay, okay, so you you you meant you mentioned clients.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: You you have uh something like a clinic or school where you teach people or help people by using septemics, or I worked as a you as a as a practitioner, as a human development engineer.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: People come to me, I developed a reputation at a very young age as a person who was really good at this.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I'll tell you something interesting, kind of behind that.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um when I was I guess about 16, and I was getting interested in dating, you know, and meeting girls, like all other 16 boys, I was very interested in 16-year-old girls.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I found that I could develop a rapport with a complete stranger in 15 minutes.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: Most people can't do that, so somehow I had some communication ability, and a lot of that is in the book.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's a whole chapter on that.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, so that sort of aided me in all of this, you know.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: But within knowing how to use biofeedback, I could get a direct line into the person's subconscious.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, I could see what was in the person's subconscious before he saw what it was.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: And because of this, in all of my 40 years working with clients, I never once asked a question that had not previously been suggested to me by the biofeedback.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, the biofeedback would tell me, this is going on with this guy.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so I would ask him that, and he would say, Yes.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: You see, so so I always asked the right question because the biofeedback told me.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: So by 1995, I had simply observed and recorded 32 scales that varied at the time between three and seven.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because by then it was obvious to me from doing this on a daily basis for many thousands of hours that the client would come to me at a specific level on a specific scale, and I would spot it.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: I wouldn't say it to anyone ever, but that that would tell me that I knew he was working toward the next level on that scale, although he didn't know anything about the scales.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: And he would, we would work and he would go to the next level on the scale.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: You have to realize that that happened many thousands of hours uh times over a 40-year period.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe 8,000, 9,000 times, something like that.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: And every time, every time it happened, it simply verified my hypothesis.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have to realize, since the clients had no idea what I was doing, what I was thinking, what I was seeing, what biofeedback I was getting, there was no possible placebo effect.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: There was no power of suggestion because I never suggested anything to anybody.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Even on the rare occasion where a client would ask me, I would never answer.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like if a guy said, Well, you think I should stay with this woman, I'd say, Well, what do you think?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: See, so there's no power of suggestion, no placebo effect.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: So this was very reliable scientific data.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you have to realize then, after I would see this phenomena in the session, I would then go out into the world, let's say, to the supermarket, and observe people who didn't even know me, weren't even paying attention to me, and I would see exactly the same phenomena.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right, I see, I understand.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: Which only verified my hypothesis.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'd see them, I see two people.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I see that lady is at that level on that scale.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, it was right there in front of me.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: So by 1995, I had these 32 scales that I had simply observed and recorded.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: There is no theory of septemics.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: All of this is based on direct empirical observation, which is what engineers are good at.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: As engineers, we look at what is there, what is the data, what is the phenomena.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing preconceived about it.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: You follow me?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now, now, so basically, just talk a little bit about engineering because that's what I was doing.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: Engineers start with facts, like, for example, the value of 1g, which is 9.8 meters per second squared.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, and then we make calculations using math, and then from that we were able to construct something useful to people, whether it's a refrigerator or an iPhone or uh a website or an airplane.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: So by 95 I had these 32 scales, and what happened was I had this one scale that I had developed very early on, was a six-level scale that by then I knew from decades of usage was correct.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, how many thousand times do you have to observe a phenomena before you figure out that it's correct?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: So let me put it this way I have not seen every cat in the world, and neither have you.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I really understand cats.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: I get along great with cats.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I know what they're like, I know what they want, I know how they think, even though everyone is unique, see?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's like reliable data.
• 11:54
  unknown: Yep.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: So this is what's happening to me.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: So when you have data that is uncontradicted over a wide database, after a while it becomes a hypothesis, which is basically a proposed explanation of the phenomena.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's what a hypothesis is.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I had this hypothesis.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm working with this client, this difficult client.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, some clients are harder than others, and uh I couldn't figure out where she was on this scale.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now you have to realize every human being is at some level on every scale, including you.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: You have a level on every one of these scales, and if you look into it, you'll figure it out.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: So when I was having trouble spotting this, uh it took me a while if I persisted and I realized, wait a minute, there's a seventh level.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is not a sixth-level scale.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: This is a seventh.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: I had never seen that phenomenon before.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: So what is what is seven?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, every scale has one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, right?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now that is why it's called septemics.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: But this is before I got the idea of septemics.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: I just had observed these scales that had various lengths, you see?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: But they all worked in a specific sequence.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, guy comes in, he's at this level, he goes up to that level.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Different scale guy comes in at this level, he goes up to that level.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the data that was being verified redundantly.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: So, when I realized that there was a seventh level on this scale, a whole bunch of ideas came to me.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, my mind opened up.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: And for one thing, I understood the client perfectly at that point, which is something I hadn't been able to do with that client.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Then also I saw exactly where it fitted in to the sixth-level scale.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: That was obvious to me.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_02: And when I inserted it into the sixth-level scale, thus making it a seven-level scale, at that moment, that scale went from being a line, which is what a scale is, to a plane, meaning a whole body of data.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: So all of a sudden, all of these interlocking, intersecting, interacting mathematical phenomena jumped out at me.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: I said, whoa.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that is not unusual for people who've come from a science, engineering, and math background, which I did.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think in math.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: We all think in math in that background, right?
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Most people don't think in math, but we do.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that was not unusual.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: What was unusual is I was using this on human phenomena.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was applying it to human phenomena, not to airfoils and automobiles and chips, see.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when I saw this body of data, I said, Whoa, this is full of math.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: There are all of these interlocking, intersecting pieces.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: See, in other words, it was like a Chinese puzzle.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Which is very, very consistent with math, because the whole point of see, in math, there's only one right answer, no matter how you get to it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, the highest level of geometry is to prove something geometrical.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: That is like the last thing you learn in geometry.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, not everybody proves it the same way.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: You could have 25 guys who who do it in different sequences in different ways, but they will, but you have to get to the same answer.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I said, whatever this is, this thing I'm looking at now, this plane of data, it has to be natural law because it has mathematics embedded in it.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, for example, as a comparison, the Fibonacci sequence.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So then I thought, wait a minute.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: I wonder if any of these other scales that I have might also be seven-level scales that had not been developed all the way.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have to realize I was not developing anything.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was just helping my clients and making notes.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's all I was interested in.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: And even the making notes was like just kind of a leftover from being an engineer, you know.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really just helping my clients, helping my clients.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I was really, well, the more I saw these patterns, the better I got at it.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because I would know the outcome of the session.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like if you've seen a movie before, you come and you watch it from the you know how the movie's gonna turn out.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's what was happening with my clients every session, or almost every session.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Once in a while there'd be an oddball.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: But I then thought, I'm gonna look at these other skills, you see, because now I knew what I was looking for.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, maybe some of these are actually seven-level skills.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I worked with the other 31 scales, and because I knew what I was looking for, in a fairly short period of time, every one of them developed into a seven-level scale.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: And when that happened, it manifested mathematically.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: You see, because until you have the whole scale, you don't see the mathematics in it.
• 17:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Which, for example, is exactly what happened with the Fibonacci sequence.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: See, Fibonacci was a famous Italian mathematician, and he saw these numbers, certain numbers kept showing up in nature.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: And he inquired, why these numbers, why does this number keep coming up?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: Why, you know, like if you take a sunflower and it's got all these seeds, if you count the seeds one way, you get a Fibonacci number.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: And if you count them the other way, you get a different Fibonacci number.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, how does that work?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: So what he did is he reverse-engineered the formula out of the physical phenomena.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he then he gave it to us, and that's what we call the Fibonacci segments.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's exactly what I did.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I saw the data, and then I used the data which I knew was correct, it was based on decades of direct observation, and figured out working backwards, what is this thing?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: So now I had 32 seven-level scales, each of which had seven levels and was corresponding to a particular area of human phenomena.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I should tell you now, uh, I see a question coming, but I want to just make this one point.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, sure.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Several people said to me, What book is your book like?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I have to tell them in all candor, having gone to school for 28 years, I don't think there's ever been a book like this before, at least on earth.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: But every one of these 35 skills is expressed in what you could describe as a table or a spreadsheet.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that table is very similar to the periodic table of elements.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in the case of the periodic table of elements, uh it's big, right?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Originally it had 70 elements, and we have another 50 now that have just been added in because the paradigm works.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So everybody in the world uses it now.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody in the science community uses it the same in whatever language they speak all over the world.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because at some point you say, yeah, this is right, which is how science progresses.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, the the thing about the periodic table is, or any other phenomenon that we're taught in science is it's not hard to grab.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know why it's not hard?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's not counterintuitive.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, it's natural phenomena.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: So when you look at the periodic table, the first time you may be 12 or 13 or 14, and the first day you're a little overwhelmed because it's big and it has a lot of data in it that you don't fully understand.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: But it doesn't take long to figure out that that makes sense.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, hydrogen is one, helium is two, lithium is three, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, it goes down and across.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: And the further you go into it, the more sense it makes.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, I was a whiz in chemistry.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the periodic table is like embedded in my brain, you know?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it's you're like continually referring to it.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's like your stable set of facts that you refer to all the time.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is in the same period with potassium, it has to be just, you know, have that same one electron function.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: So uh so now I have these scales, and each of them is expressed in the book.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: You could open up the book and look at it, in a table.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: The first thing you see, chapter one, chapter, first thing you see is that table.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because having the scales is not enough.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: Having the scales is convenient and useful, but it's not enough to create a workable philosophical science.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to work out the whole panoply of data that corresponded to this scale.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, why is the scale the way?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it in the sequence that it is?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: What other factors are underpinning it?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, what is the mathematics of this?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a periodic table.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: When you know you realize, well, well, you know, sodium, uh, it gives up one electron.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: That explains the whole thing.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Once you know the electronic structure.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: So on potassium, it has a lot more, uh, it has a higher atomic number, but it still gives up one electron.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: So it functions very similarly.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that's sort of my process, you know, in getting this to work.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: So now I had these 32 scales.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And when I looked at this, I thought, you know, I could really help people if I give them this.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because they could look at this data just like they look at the periodic table, and they could use it.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Just like we all use the periodic table who were in physical science.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: So then I thought, well, yeah, I could go from helping people by the hundreds, which is what I had been doing as a human development engineer, to helping them by the millions if I put this in a book and get it out.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Just like Dmitry Mendeleev did with his original periodic table of 79 elements.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna have to write a book.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a question?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, yeah, I still have some questions.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_03: And um also I wonder uh can you explain uh how septemics is different from traditional psychology?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's it's all sounds very similar, uh human behavior and uh in septemics and in psychology, it's kind of I don't I don't know, it sounds similar and how how different it is.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Septemics is has nothing to do with psychology.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: I do not describe it as human behavior, I say human phenomena because there are psychology is defined as the study of behavior, and more particularly, what most people are interested in is the study of human behavior.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So uh this is not that, this is just actual physical laws like Newton's three laws of motion.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you know the famous story where he saw the apple fall from the tree and he figured out wait a minute, that's the same force that's holding the moon.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, same force that's holding the moon around the earth.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that was his aha moment.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: And from that he got to three laws of motion, and then he said, well, in order for people to use this, I'm gonna have to create a new branch of math, and he invented calculus so we could use it.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And all of that is still in use today, all of it.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: So this is I don't want to say it had nothing to do with psychology, because there is some overlap.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Overlap so so but there are l large segments of this that have nothing to do with psychology.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: For example, there's a scale of civilization that has nothing to do with psychology, there's a scale of spiritual identity that has nothing.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people in psychology don't even know that they're spirits.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: What would they do with this?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there's a scale of communication, which breaks down the essence of communication.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's not psychology.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I studied psychology, I like psychology, I use psychology, I have my own reference books that I use, you know, like the DSM I use all the time.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but but uh I tried for years to fit Septemex, although it didn't even have a name then, into some pre-existing niche.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I can assure you it's impossible.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: It cannot be done.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like trying to get an elephant into a Volkswagen.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: So makes sense, yeah.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: So this is much, much bigger than human behavior.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Now, let me tell you something about how people respond to this.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, like a guy's in a bookstore, right?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: And he sees a book, Septemex.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: He says, What the hell is that?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: He takes it down, he opens it up, he looks at it, and doesn't matter what chapter he opens to, he's gonna say or think something like, Oh, this makes sense.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know why he's gonna say that?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like the with the Pythagorean theorem.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Again, you learn it when you maybe 12 or 13 or 14, and you look at it, and then you know, the first day it's like new, but it doesn't take long to figure out that it makes sense.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then you get it, and you've got, I mean, you can express it in different ways, and that's useful because you can take it algebraically and reverse the you know, what the X factor is gonna be or the Y factor is gonna be, what you're looking for, but you get it, you it's not counterintuitive.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that is why I've been watching people since the original version of this came out, it's been over 30 years.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I've been watching people get this for 30 years.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: They get it.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they get it because it's natural law.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so so again, you don't have to be brilliant to understand the periodic table.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to be brilliant to understand the periodic table of elements, or or the Pythagorean theorem, or the three laws of motion.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: What you had to be brilliant was to figure it out.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, why did Newton figure out the three laws of motion and nobody else did?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, he was a 25-year-old genius, figured this out on his own and gave it to him.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's how science advances.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like, how come Einstein is the first guy to figure out the theory of relativity?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: Completely changed the whole fabric of physical science.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Once you know the theory of relativity, everything else that you learned in physics changes because of that.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: We know what gravity is now.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: See, Newton didn't tell us that.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: He just said, well, this is this thing called gravity.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And since everybody experiences, everybody accepted that and was able to work with it.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_02: But but Einstein told us what it is, see, but why did he get it?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a reason for all of these, which is he asked the right question.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in engineering, it is it is a basic datum in engineering that getting the right 90% of getting the right answer is asking the right question.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: And engineers use this all the time, right?
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say a guy brings an amplifier to me, says, My amp's not working, can you fix it?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: I say, sure.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: So now I gotta figure out what's wrong with this thing, right?
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't know anything about it.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I start looking at it.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Say, well, let me see if the power supplies.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: I check the power, it's all good.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: See, I didn't ask the right question.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: See, then I say, well, let me check.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say this is an old-fashioned tube amp, right?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of guitarists still use.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: I so I check all the wait a minute, this has got a dead tube.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I put in the right one, you know, correct it, put in the uh a working tube, and it works now.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I asked the right question.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what happened with Fibonacci.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: He said, There's these numbers.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: And so he asked, he asked himself, I'm sure, knowing how people like that think, what explains this?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, what formula would give us these numbers?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: And he figured it out and gave it to us.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what we call the Fibonacci sequence.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I did here.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: I looked at these data and I saw that they were factual.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went backwards from that saying, well, what underpins this?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, how does this make sense?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Why is this true?
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: What are we really looking at here?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, so I should tell you, uh, when I first realized I had to write a book in order to give it to the people of Earth, uh, the first draft was finished in December of 95, and I sent it to colleagues of mine, all of whom had graduate degrees in a variety of subjects.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_03: What was their action?
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: What did they say?
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: They all loved it.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: They had differing responses, but very positive, like, wow, you really found something here, type responses.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: And they didn't know one another, and they, you know, didn't know I was sending it to them, but I got very, very, and that told me that this was exactly what I suspected it was, which is a new subject that people would get, which is the key here.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: People get this.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: This is not obscure.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have to have 180 IQ in order to understand this.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, so at that time, this is like January of 95, when I got the response, pardon me, 90, 96, when I got the responses from my colleagues, I said, Well, I'm gonna have to work on this.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I worked on the book for the next 25 years.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason for that is first I had to discover the phenomena, and I pretty much already have explained how I did that.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Although we have to realize I did find three more skills while I was doing the writing.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Then I had to take that data and I had to use it to craft a workable philosophic system.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's what engineers do.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: We take known data and we use it to create something that is useful to people.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: That took 20 years.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason for that is uh in the world of engineering, you're never allowed to say, whoops.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: You can't say that in engineering.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's like drilling ahead of you the first day.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, gotta be right.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's why we have all these factors of error and and all of these different ways of making sure the thing is right.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like if we calculate, well, this could run on 25 volts.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: We're not gonna give it 25, we're gonna give it 30, you see, so it has some headroom.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how everything in engineering is done.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that took 20 years.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: I had to create a system that was gonna work all the time for every person who was reading.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I know I succeeded at that because people keep telling me, Jim, this is great.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: I understand this.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: This helps me, it helped me with my wife, it helped me with my business, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: I get these stories all the time from people.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it worked.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I have to tell you, the most time-consuming fact aspect was expressing this in a way that would make sense to the average reader of English.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because my knowing it with my 28 years of education is very different from the average reader buying it, you know, off a bookshelf or from Amazon having it make sense to him.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, uh, for those of you who may not know, when Einstein uh released his theories of relativity in 1905 and 1915, he did not make any attempt to explain this to the common person.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: He only explained it to other physicists and mathematicians.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: Other scientists, yeah, yeah.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it's an academic paper.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Now, those of us who studied it, we know what's in it, we understand it, but I had a higher burden.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: I, from the beginning, wanted this to help the people of Earth.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: So, so I spent a tremendous amount of time working with this over the 25-year period of working with the book.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_02: This book was rewritten about six times.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because what would happen is, you know, after I heard from my colleagues, I said, Well, I'm gonna work on this.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I I rewrote the whole thing, you know, to be better, clearer.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and so then I released it to colleagues and some and students and so forth.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and then I get feedback.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the feedback, well, you know, I really didn't understand this scale.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, really?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, why?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I was getting feedback, and then I would rewrite the book and I would make it clearer to people.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: Well, so actually just I actually just so you know, yesterday I um I bought your book on my on my iPhone and iPad, so I'm gonna start reading soon.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: You'll be always with me.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: And can I ask you, Jim, can you walk us through one of one of the 35 scales?
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_03: I even I even have it here in my open this book and let's say uh the scale of the scale of literacy, what's what that is.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I could I could do that, but I for for the purposes of this discussion, it probably would be more helpful to your listeners if I talk about the scale of basic purposes.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because think about this.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, please, yes, please, yeah.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: What could possibly be more important than knowing someone's basic purpose?
• 36:02
  unknown: Right.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what the person is trying to do all the time.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: 24 hours a day, whether he succeeds or not.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that really explains a lot about the person, including yourself.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell you, having been working with the state for many decades, when a person finds his level on the scale of basic purposes, it's a life-changing moment.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: He's never the same after that, because everybody has one of seven of these basic purposes.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: When you find what yours is, you say, Ah, now I understand this and this and this, and and you will have a cavalcade of insights that could go on for days or weeks.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that's why I broke up with Gertrude, who I was dating in 2016.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was because I was at this level and she was at this other level, see?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you keep having, it's big when you when you spot this.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: So let me go through that scale, okay?
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: So every scale is one, three, three, four, five, six, seven, seven is the bottom, one is the top.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna start at the bottom.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: The lowest level of the scale of basic purposes is what I call the subversive.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: The objective of the subversive is destruction.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now, many people would say, why would somebody have that for a basic purpose?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the good news is there aren't too many people like that.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: But I'll give you some examples of people like that, Adolf Hitler and Paul Pott.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: Think about how destructive they were.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll tell you something.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was a serious student of military science.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, of course, I studied World War II at great length, and he was the commander-in-chief of the German forces.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, there were a lot of things that I studied that made no sense to me as a student of military science, because there's a lot of things in military science that we have known for centuries you do and you don't do, and he violated those many times.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: He made six or eight catastrophic mistakes.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now his generals told him, don't do this, and he did it anyway.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Herman Gering, who was number two man, said if the Russians get in the war, we will lose.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he had a non-aggression pact signed with Stalin, and he violated it.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: He attacked them.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's destructive.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because Hermann Gering was right.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: The Russians eventually, although they lost 20 million people, eventually rolled over the Nazis.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: So when I realized, and this was a fairly recent realization, that this guy was destructive, now it all made sense to me.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: All these stupid things that he did, he did them because he was destructive.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have to realize a destructive person is not just destructive in one direction, he's destructive in every direction.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: He was destructive to the Wehrmacht, he was destructive to his own family, he was destructive to Germany.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, if you know there were a couple of Nazis who sort of saw this and kind of tried to minimize it, which saved millions and millions of lives and billions of dollars.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so because they could see that this guy was destructive and they didn't want Germany to be destroyed.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so anyway, that's level seven.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that is as crazy as you can get.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: I see.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_03: In a in a bad way, right?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Or crazy is not a good thing.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy is a bad thing.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it can be crazy, some sportsman who does some incredible things.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_03: This way, crazy or crazy as a some dictator, I don't know.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why I'm crazy meaning insane.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: He's insane.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: Not good.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's not it's not a secret to anybody who studied Hitler that he was insane.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I'm not the guy who figured that out, you know.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody knew he was insane.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I think most of his generals, most of the people in the in the Nazi government knew he was insane, which is why there were 22 attempts to assassinate him, all of which failed.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: So above that is level six, which is the criminal.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the criminal, most people understand.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: The criminal is not inherently destructive.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's only destructive when it suits his purposes.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say you have a drug dealer, right?
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: He's gonna sell this cocaine and make a million dollars.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: So if you threaten that, you try to get in the way of that one way or another, like by reporting it to the police, he will have you killed.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're preventing him from getting what he wants, which is pleasure.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: The objective of the criminal is pleasure.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: Most people don't know that.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, what's he gonna do with that million dollars?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's gonna buy drugs, alcohol, women, limousines, hope cuisine, right?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, all kinds of pleasure, right.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's what they want.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: He's not inherently destructive.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: And those are the people who do well in like any type of organized crime.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: The Russian mob, the mafia, those are the people.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: When they get when I know for a fact from studying this, when the mafia would get somebody in there who is at level seven, they get rid of him.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because he's nuts.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: He's a liability.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, the the the mafia leaders understood we don't want to go around killing people.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_02: That's a lot of trouble.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's expensive, it brings heat.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: So you had to get permission, you gotta have a good reason.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: So there are these crazy people, you know, who were going, they get rid of them.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, in the mafia, there's only one way you get rid of them, you know.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like they send you on vacation, you just end up in the trunk of a car.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: So above that is level four, pardon me, level five, which is the loser.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, a loser is not somebody who's doing badly, it's somebody who's self-destructive.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: His objective is suffering.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: He intends to make himself suffer.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Think of all the ways you can make yourself suffer.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: By becoming a drug addict, by becoming an alcoholic, by smoking yourself to death with lung cancer, by overeating and gaining 300 pounds, you know, by being in bad relationships.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure we all know some people like this.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is a large group of people.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: They're self-destructive.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: And there are a lot of very nice people who try to help them, and they're frustrated because you can't help those people.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because the guy's basic purpose is to suffer.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: So if you come in and say, Well, we'll get you off drugs, even if you do get him off drugs, he'll then take up alcohol.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: And but if you get him off alcohol, he'll then take up smoking and die from cancer.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: So this is replaced it with something else destructive.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the loser.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: And those people, they don't really mean harm to anybody, but they cause a lot of harm.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you know one of these people, you know, like say you have a brother in law who's a drug addict, he's gonna cause you a lot of trouble.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you want to stay away from him.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: 100%, yeah.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: Up from that is level four.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Which is the normal.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Now, in the United States, the normal is a guy, he has a house with a mortgage, he has a car with a car payment, he has a wife, he has a couple of kids, he has a bank account, he takes a vacation in the summer, you know, he's normal.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's the largest demographic group.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's 30% of the people.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay?
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the objective of the normal is conformity.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now, many people will say, well, that's not a good thing.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: But wait a minute, think about it this way.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_02: This guy wants to fit in.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what conformity is, it's fitting in.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_02: So if everybody grows their hair long, he grows his hair long.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: If everybody cuts off the hair, he cuts it off.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if everybody gets an SUV, he gets an SUV.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: He wants to fit in.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: So this is not somebody who's going to rock the boat, he's not going to make waves, he doesn't particularly want to help anybody except maybe his immediate family, and he doesn't really want to hurt anybody.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: So he's not a help or hindrance.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: He's just a regular guy doing his own thing.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now, above that, level three is the winner.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_02: The winner is not a conformist.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_02: He wants to win.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: In order to win, you have to stand out.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: So, now what do we mean by winning?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that depends on the person.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: If he's a baseball player, winning means winning the World Series.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: You get a World Series ring and you get to show off for the rest of your life that you won the World Series.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: If it's an actor, he wants an Oscar, right?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's winning to him.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: So what he's seeking is wealth.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: And again, you can define wealth in many ways.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: To an actor, an Oscar is wealth.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Or, like let's say an Olympic swimmer, you know, his wealth is a gold medal.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: He has it for the rest of his life.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just money, but it's generally it is money.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: But that's the winner.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_02: The winner wants to win.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: He's not gonna sacrifice himself for anybody.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't want to hurt anybody.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: And he'll help you if you're kind of on his team.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're gonna help me do this?
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_02: Come along, and you'll I'll take you under my win type of thing.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: Then above that at level two is the leader.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: The leader's objective is conquest.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, conquest and winning are not the same thing.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh see, I'll give you a historical example.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Thomas Jefferson, who was the third president of the United States and wrote the Declaration of Independence, he was a winner.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: If you study his life, you'll see, boy, did he win.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: He won in a dozen different ways.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: He was an architect, he was a musician, he was an inventor, he was a writer, he founded the University of Virginia, he wrote the Declaration of Independence, he was a pre- he did a lot of boy, did he win.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I'll tell you something.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: When the British, during the Revolutionary War, when they finally got far enough inland to where he lived, he lived in pretty far inland.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, in those days it took a long time to get inland.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: He ran away.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't fight them.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what winners do.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: The winner's not going to risk his life.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how's how's that winning?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: He got on his first and he and took his money and he ran away.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: He went into hiding.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, true.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: So as opposed to Alexander Hamilton.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: Alexander Hamilton was attending what today we call Columbia University.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: He's was a brilliant guy.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: He was so brilliant that all the people in his hometown took up a collection to send him to Columbia.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: So he could he didn't have any money, he was he was an orphan.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so when the war broke out, he left Columbia University and he joined the military to fight the British.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: And by the time he was 22, he was a colonel.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Think about that.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: And when Washington met him, he realized how brilliant he realized that Hamilton was smarter than Washington was.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_02: And he kept Hamilton at his elbow for eight years, the whole war.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Hamilton kept saying, sir, give me a command, let me fight.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: Washington kept saying, no, I need you here with me.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_02: Because uh Washington had to keep writing to Congress saying, we need bullets, we need uh rifles, we need blankets, we need food.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know who wrote all those letters?
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_02: Alexander Hamilton.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: He was a kid, he was like 23 when all that was going 24.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_02: So he wanted to conquer the British level two.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Abe Lincoln was at level two.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: He wanted to conquer the Confederacy.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if you study the Civil War, he got almost no help from his cabinet, who were all very accomplished men.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: He got almost no help from his generals until he found an obscure general named Grant.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_02: And he put Grant in front in charge of the army, and that's how he won the war.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: And Grant's friend Sherman.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: Those two generals won the war.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, because he wanted to conquer the Confederacy, his generals would come to him and say, Well, you know, they ran back into their own land.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: He'd say, No.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's our land, it's part of the United States.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: They're rebels, it's not their property, it's ours.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: You see?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: We gotta conquer these guys.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: These are rebels.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that's level two.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, level one is the saint.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_02: The saint is seeking transcendence.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, he's not interested in the things that most of us are interested in.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: He's not interested in wealth, he's not interested in sex, not interested in fame, he's not interested in notoriety, he's not interested in uh owning property or having fun.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_02: He wants to go beyond into the next realm.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Is there any historical figure you can name?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus is one obvious example of this.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: He was always talking about going to the Father, which means going to heaven.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the whole Bible is all about that, the whole New Testament.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: So, or another guy like that is Gandhi.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: Gandhi was not interested in fame or money or anything like that.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: He led the people of India.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: He had nothing, he had no position, he had no money, he had no weapons, and he, by peaceful resistance, got them to throw off the yoke of British rule.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: But he was, if you study the man, he was a transcendent Hindu.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: So those people are saints.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Question?
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, yeah.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: About our daily life, how can average person use septemics in daily life?
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh what is the mechanism of using it like quickly, not just uh go home and read book, but can you use it just in Yes.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say you are dating a woman for three years and you're thinking about getting married.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now, wouldn't it make sense to ask why does this woman want to marry me?
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that a reasonable question?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well, look at the scale of mo look at the scale of motivation.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: There are only seven basic human motivations.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: Now you might say, well, there are thousands of possible motivations.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they're just subsets of these.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: They're synonyms.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like Roger's thesaurus, you know.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I got it down to the base seven basic levels, and they're very well described.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, it's not vague.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_02: So a person who's at a certain level, he behaves this way.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you you don't ask the woman, you don't know what you're gonna get.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: Just look in the book.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know her well, don't you, after three years.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if you study the chapter, it's very specific, it's not vague.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you look at it and you might say, Oh, I see why she wants to marry me.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: She loves me.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's level one on this scale of motivation.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: The highest motive of all is love.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: People who can things out of love.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but maybe that doesn't happen.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe what happens is, you know, now that I think about this for a while, I can see now that she wants to marry me because I drive a Maserati.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: I have a 60-foot yacht, I fly my own learjet, I live in a$10 million condo, and I have$15 million in the bank.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: See, that's a different motive.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's level four money.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure you know that plenty of people marry for money.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, that's very popular nowadays, unfortunately.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's always been popular.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's never not been popular.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you'd look at it, and now what you do with that is up to you.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's none of my business.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: You might look at it and say, Well, okay, this is not the first woman who wanted to marry me for my money, but this one is beautiful, smart, clever, uh, congenial, graceful.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna marry her anyway.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_02: And you might marry her and live happily ever after, knowing that her motivation is money.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_02: And um, as you know, there are many people like that.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: There are many, many put guys, I'm sure you've seen this, lots of guys who are like older, out-of-shape guys who have beautiful young wives.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, how it works.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_02: Twenty-three-year-old Miss Texas gets a diamond ring, a pearl necklace, a mink coat, a maserati, and a credit card.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_02: He's happy.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: And the old out-of-shape gray guy gets 23-year-old Miss Texas for her wife.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it could work.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it could.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: But maybe you're the type of guy who says, you know, I don't want to marry somebody who wants to run me for my money.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: I want to marry somebody who loves me for myself.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, yeah.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_02: A romantic.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you break up with her because it's not what you want.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now, don't think in that category that you're gonna be upset about that.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_02: You will not.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: You'll be relieved.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: You'll think, boy, am I glad I figured this out now before it's too late.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I wound up owing her ten thousand dollars a month in alimony.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for some people it septemics might help help to dodge the bullet, pretty much.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: It helps to dodge the bullet.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_02: So now when you go forward looking for elsewhere for a wife, maybe you don't mention the Maserati right away.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: You want to see if she likes you, right?
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you see, that's a very practical way of using this.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's not hard to do, it's not hard to figure out because there's only seven levels.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: When you were selecting for a menu of seven, it's not hard.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because let me tell you what happens.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: Every time you try to use a scale, the first thing that happens is you look at it and you find a bracket.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_02: It'll say something like Well, I can see right away that her motive is not four, five, six, or seven.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like it's obvious to me.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: So you got it down to one, two, three in seconds.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about twenty, twenty-five, thirty seconds.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: That is what normally happens.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you study the text, which is very clear, then you say, Oh, now that I study this, I see she's at this level.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: Then you because and then when you have that uh realization that she's had a lot, you will have insights.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: That explains why she said that.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: That explains why she didn't go out with this guy, that explains why she likes this and this, you see.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you're having insights, so you're actually getting smarter by using this.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_02: So, what happens in using this book is, and you have to realize that I've been watching people use this for 30 and a half years now.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: The more you use it, the smarter you get.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have realizations.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: The smarter you get, the easier it is to use the book because you're smarter.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: The easier it is to use the book, the more you use the book.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_02: The more you use the book, the smarter you get.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: See, so this just goes in a virtuous circle like that.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I already know if you live a thousand years, you will still be using this book.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is basic data about human beings that is not going to change.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say 500 years from now you meet some guy who wants to go into business with you, right?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you say, dude, one way this guy is on the scale of thought.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_02: See, that would be a good thing to know about a business partner.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_02: How does this guy think?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: There are only seven levels of thought, see?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_02: And once you understand it, ah, I see he thinks at this level.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: Now that might tell you you want to work with him or you don't want to work with him.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_02: Either way, you're better off.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: So this is very practical, it's very useful.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like the periodic table of elements.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's not going away, it's not going to change, you know.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_02: That periodic table existed a thousand years ago, two thousand years ago, three thousand.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_02: We just didn't know about it because Mendeleev had not written it out for us yet.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: He was obviously a genius.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_02: Because chemistry existed, but nobody had done what he did, which is to take all the elements and put them on one piece of paper horizontally and vertically, according to how they, their structure and their function.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm doing here.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm giving you the structure and function of human phenomena.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: So I can tell you now, I've had many readers who they read the book, they come to me, they say, Jim, you covered everything.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't draw that conclusion.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I didn't know that that was true.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: But they keep telling me that.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what I mean by it is this 35 skills.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: Let me tell you what these 35 levels are.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: You've got it in the book, but I want your readers to see what's covered in the book.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: Okay?
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: Of the 35 skills, 24 of them I call individual skills, and 11 I call group skills.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: These are the individual scales: the scale of basic purposes, the scale of personal influence, the scale of choice, the scale of permeation, the scale of thought, the scale of identity, the scale of evaluation, the scale of motivation, the scale of control, the scale of stopping, the scale of scholarship, the scale of literacy, the scale of human ability, the scale of memory, the scale of spiritual identity, the scale of mental deletion, the scale of aberration, the scale of physical fitness, the scale of justification, the scale of belief, the scale of equanimity, the scale of attack, the scale of conflict, and the scale of reaction.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_02: And these are the group scales, the scale of relationships, the scale of life spheres, the scale of government, the scale of civilization, the scale of survival, the scale of management, the scale of exchange, the scale of communication, the scale of allegiance, the scale of sexuality, and the scale of politics.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when you read the book, some of these things you're gonna say, okay, yeah, I kind of knew that.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of this stuff you're gonna say, wow, I never thought about that before.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm excited.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'll give you an example about that.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: The scale of attack.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna say, scale of attack?
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: What the hell is he talking about?
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: So this is actually a very important thing to know about somebody.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know if you want to be in the military or in the police, you have to be at least at level two on that scale.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: Level two is willing to attack.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: There are people who are not willing to attack.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's a majority of the people.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: Levels three, four, five, six, and seven are not willing to attack.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you're gonna join the Marines if you're not willing to attack?
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's your job.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_02: Police, you know, the police are not really there to attack, but when it comes up, they have to do it.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_03: You gotta do that, yep.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: So once in a while, you find you find somebody uh in the military or in the police who's not at that level, and boy, is they want to get rid of him.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: They put him behind a desk.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: Here, you you go in tight for three years, you know.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just one example.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_02: And most people have no idea of the scale of attack, but it's very clear and it's very specific.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_02: And when you see people, you're gonna be able to spot them on these levels, including yourself.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: Because you have to remember, every person is at some level on every scale, there are no exceptions.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: Next question.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, and yeah, the last question for today.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so as I have understood, the septamics and these uh seven scales, uh, they can help to improve the relationship between people.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: Either it's a uh relationship between man and woman or in business, at work.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it can be used to fix something if once you know these scales, uh you can somehow act differently.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say you have you have a friend, Joe.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: Every time you see Joe, he complains about his wife.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right, Deem, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_02: She's driving me nuts.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: She drinks, she doesn't clean the house, she's disrespectful, she yells at the kids, but right.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you say, Joe, let me show you something.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: You open the book to the scale of relationships.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he can read English, you put it in front of him, and he's gonna say or think something like, I mean, there's a scale of relationships?
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: You say, Yeah, this relationship that you've been complaining to me about for six months, where is it on this scale?
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_02: Guaranteed he's gonna want to answer that question.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: So he's gonna look at it.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: He's gonna look at it.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: And in a matter of seconds, he will find a bracket.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'll say, you know, I can see that we obviously are not at level one, two, or three, because we're having a lot of trouble, and that's the top of the scale.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's got to be four, five, six, seven.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: You say, okay, good.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you just read it and then you can get it exactly?
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so he reads it.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_02: He says, Oh, I see, we're at level five.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is not hard to do because it's very specific.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, oh, we're at level five.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: That explains why we're having a lot of trouble.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll have some very specific realizations in there.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: That explained why, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so then you can say to them, you know, you could, if you want, you could move the relationship from five up to four, and you'll have a better relationship.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay, I'm gonna get this book and show it to my wife.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_02: See, he shows it to the wife.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't tell her, you don't tell anybody.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: She's just saying, look at this, honey.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think this is a good piece of information.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_02: And she might say, Yeah, I can see what level five, and then they can work on moving to level four.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_02: And what I can tell you, the good news is this whatever level you're at, if you target yourself for the next level up, you will get there.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know why?
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's the next level up.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm giving you the levels.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_02: Most people don't have this concept.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: If you're level five and you target for level four, you will get there if you make a serious effort, because it's the next level up.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you try to get to one, two, or three, you're not gonna get there because it's not the next level.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's too steep a gradient.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_03: Should be step by step without skipping.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh yeah, Jim, uh just one question, just one more quick question.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_03: I just uh got it on j j just now.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um as um like my English is not a first language for me, and I was wondering uh, have you tried or do you have a plan to translate your book to any other languages to kind of spread it more?
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe some Russian, Spanish, I don't know, Chinese.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: A few people have asked me that, and I have to tell you, it makes me cringe to think about because it's it's not that I wouldn't want it to be in other languages, it's that this is a more than 86,000 word book.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_02: I went through this book literally word by word to see is this the best word to explain this?
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_03: I got it, yeah.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_02: And the The reason that I published the book when I did is I saw people are getting this.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_02: They're understanding this.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: I have made this clear enough that anybody who can read English reasonably well, and that would include you, is gonna get it.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I don't know any Russian or any Ukrainian, so I couldn't even be of use to people who wanted to translate this.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: How would I know what word is next?
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you you mean you want to control every single word pretty much.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know about control it, but it's a question of how could this be done successfully?
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very skeptical because I spent 25 years on this.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_02: Not many people are gonna do that.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I get it, I get it, yeah.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: So so for example, I do I do know enough Spanish that if somebody wanted to tr to trend translate this into Spanish, I probably could be of use to him.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_02: I probably could say, it's not really the right word, it's this.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but you know, how what is there, 200 languages on earth, something like that?
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_03: So all the other ones, Chinese, Japanese, the three or four of the main languages are the most spread, like Spanish, Chinese, I don't know.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so all I'm saying is lots of luck.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because the the whole this whole thing is nothing but words.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's words.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I went through a lot of trouble to get the right words.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and and so that's why people get this.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll give you an example.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_02: The scale of sexuality.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: Level two on the scale of sexuality, I call uh take it or leave it.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now you might say, wait a minute, take it or leave it.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: What kind of a name is that for a level?
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I have to tell you, there are people whose attitude about sex is take it or leave it.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: In other words, if the girl says yes, that's good, and if she says no, that's good too.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_02: He can take it or leave it.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he might say, Yeah, I don't feel like dating anybody now.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_02: And he's fine.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: See, he's a take it or leave it.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now, when I looked at that, uh I thought, well, what am I gonna call this, you know?
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and I thought, wait a minute, take it or leave it.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody in English knows what take it or leave it means.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm just gonna call it take it or leave it.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it works, it works as a description.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if somebody gets to take it or leave it, he says, Oh, I see what's happened to me.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_02: I've come to this point where I can take it or leave it.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then he understands.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_02: So when people come to him and say, What's wrong with you?
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_02: Why are you not dating anybody?
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he knows it's because he can take it or leave it.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, totally understand.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_02: Getting the right word is really important, and I have to tell you, on some of these levels, I spent years getting the right word.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like level two, uh conquest on the scale of basic purposes.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_01: I spent a long time thinking about that word, looking for alternative words, like because a lot of people don't like that word.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_02: But I tell you, I just couldn't find another word.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_02: There was just no other word to describe what it was.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to sort of understand it in an exploded way.
• 1:09:47
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say you have a baseball player, right?
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't want to just win, he wants to conquer.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's like a pitcher where he does he's not trying to win the game.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: He knows he's gonna win the game.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_02: He's trying to strike out every batter on the other team.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's conquest.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody's ever done that.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_02: The record is 20.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_02: But but even like when Roger Clemens, uh 1986, I think, was struck out 20 batters in a game, that was like big news.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if you pay attention to Roger Clemens, one of the greatest pitchers of all time, it's very obvious that he's there to conquer.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't want to just win.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_02: There are lots of guys who want to win.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when you're on a sports team or any type of team, you want guys who want to win.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, 100%.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you don't want guys who say, well, it's okay if we lose.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want that guy in the team.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's an amateur.
• 1:10:50
  SPEAKER_02: Let him let him go play with his friends.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_02: But but you know, how does conquer apply to an athlete?
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_02: See, because it's not conquest in the way that we normally think of it.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_02: But it's nevertheless, it's there.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_02: So you could have an insurance agent who's at level two, you know, and this guy, it's not enough for him that he sells two million dollars worth of policies every year.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's not enough.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_02: He wants to have sell more insurance than any other person living.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_02: You see, that's not just winning, that's conquest.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_02: So you can see this in certain people in history, you know, that they really wanted to conquer.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and and then you had other people who they just wanted to win.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a different thing.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I put a lot of time into getting the right words.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to get somebody to put this into Ukrainian, good luck.
• 1:11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we'll see.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, only only from your from your permission.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_03: But we'll see.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_02: If you want, if you you speak Ukrainian, right?
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Ukrainian and Russian, yeah.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_03: Both.
• 1:12:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so so so you might, if you studied this, you might be able to be helpful to a guy who could translate it into Ukrainian.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_02: See, if you're an expert in the book, you could say, no, don't use this word, use this word.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_02: See?
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because obviously you have subtleties of meaning, right?
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_02: In words.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_02: Which is a very and of course, language to language, it changes.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know that the Polynesians have seven words for wave?
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know some languages do not have certain words, so people don't even know the meaning, like some that's right.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_02: So in English, in it for English people, right?
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Think about the English, right?
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Living where they did.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Wave is good enough.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_02: But for Polynesians, waves was, I mean, they invented surfing.
• 1:13:06
  SPEAKER_02: They invented the catamaran, you know?
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, waves was like a big thing for them, was like every day.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_02: So they had all these different, and that's true for every language.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you you know you're gonna have.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Jim.
• 1:13:26
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to say, when I'm gone, you know, some 10, 20, 30 years from now, uh, there probably will be some people, you know, who say, This is great, I want to translate it.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um probably would be somebody who's bilingual.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_02: So so he you know, he somebody who there are people who can speak two or more languages equally well.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Scholars.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, right.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, who who who might want to do that and might won't be around to have an opinion about it.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's I understand, I understand what I mean.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay, Jim.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much for sharing your time and insights today.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_03: It was such a pleasure to talk to you, and um so much of information I need to think about and start reading the book.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's definitely gonna happen soon.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_03: And as I have understood, too, uh, people can contact you on septemics.com.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is your website, right?
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right, septemics.com, S-E-P-T-E-M-I-C-S, because my email is is on there.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_03: Septemix.com, that's where you can find how to get the book.
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_02: Then I should say is it tells you what many readers have said about it, what many journalists have written about it, what the reviews are, yeah.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_02: What the reviews are.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_02: You could read sections of the book itself, and there's even a pre-recorded audio entitled Introduction to South.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, listen to that, yeah.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you could listen to this video.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_02: 15 minutes, you know, without even reading anything.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_02: So so I would advise people to go there, and I'll tell you the truth.
• 1:15:11
  SPEAKER_02: If you go through all of that material, I just you're probably gonna want to buy the book.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're gonna say, Well, whatever this is, this I better find out about this.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can use it for your life.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yep, yeah.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Jim, very much, very, very much.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you all for tuning in for watching this episode and seeing you in the next one.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_03: Bye-bye, bye-bye.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's it for today's episode.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_03: Hit that like and subscribe button, it will help us a lot.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Leave a comment and stay curious to the next one.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_03: Take care, bye bye.