Latest / Buying Local Podcast / Episode 20: Chris Ryan & Leah Parillo (SIX Marketing)

Transcript

Episode 20: Chris Ryan & Leah Parillo (SIX Marketing) · Buying Local Podcast

• 0:07
  Welcome to buying local, I'm your host, Mike Nelson.
• 0:10
  Here joined today, by two people from six marketing.
• 0:14
  We have Chris Ryan. Who is The Fearless Commander?
• 0:18
  What's your no Supreme Commander at six marketing?
• 0:22
  If I remember correctly, that your official title and then
• 0:24
  Leah Perillo, but Leah, I don't know what your title is.
• 0:27
  Do you have a a fun cool title like Chris does.
• 0:29
  I'm the purveyor of fun at 6:00 really AKA VP of Business
• 0:35
  Development and growth and growth.
• 0:37
  Yes. Yeah.
• 0:38
  Because you guys kind of a cool little twist on this.
• 0:42
  A Twist is probably the bad word but or not the right word but
• 0:45
  you kind of have a different view on marketing.
• 0:47
  Your you call yourselves a growth agency?
• 0:49
  Is that correct? That is correct and is crying?
• 0:52
  Can you can you guys go ahead and give me a, give me a b.
• 0:54
  Give us the rundown of what a growth agency is or does.
• 0:59
  It's not all that hard to comprehend.
• 1:02
  Basically, we look at a business holistically and we figure out
• 1:05
  the ways to help them grow. More often, than not, it's not
• 1:09
  always marketing, sometimes it can be sales, sometimes it can
• 1:12
  be operations and systems. Sometimes it can be processes
• 1:16
  which also falls within that bucket.
• 1:18
  But once we look at a business holistically and really
• 1:20
  understand where there might be potential pitfalls or areas that
• 1:24
  we can improve upon, we come back and we customize just a
• 1:28
  Roach to help them grow very often.
• 1:31
  We find that Marion Marketing sales, and Technology.
• 1:35
  Helps them provide the biggest amount of success when a lot of
• 1:37
  our competitors solely focus on just delivery marketing and hope
• 1:42
  it works for lack of a better from, right?
• 1:45
  Because hope is an amazing strategy at speaking of Hope
• 1:47
  being a strategy, that was something I learned about in
• 1:50
  Sandler training. I know you guys kind of connect
• 1:53
  with them a little bit here and what you do can you can you kind
• 1:56
  of describe that to us? As far as your relationship.
• 2:00
  Yeah. So in line with our our I guess
• 2:03
  our approach overall, this holistic approach we found out a
• 2:05
  long time ago. We started like a traditional
• 2:07
  marketing agency doing all this great marketing, making sure
• 2:10
  it's sexy and it's performing. And then we slowly realized like
• 2:14
  hey it's one thing to deliver all these leads but without
• 2:17
  having to sales element to help convert them, it was a huge part
• 2:20
  of the puzzle missing, which is why we converted the agency, how
• 2:24
  that power relays to Sandler is two parts.
• 2:27
  We developed a strategic Ownership with Sandler training
• 2:30
  in general mascot Kelly out of Albany great guy, we've been
• 2:33
  working with him for years. So he comes in and helps our
• 2:35
  clients when there seems to be a sales issue or helps them with
• 2:38
  pipeline management, customer service.
• 2:41
  But we also hired an internal business coach and sales trainer
• 2:44
  on staff, which we've been working with for eight years
• 2:47
  seven or eight years right now. So, we really have this debt.
• 2:50
  I focus on sales specifically, because that's the key.
• 2:53
  Every owner, every business we talk to, you know, if we're
• 2:56
  selling growth, we need to grow the This and we need to
• 2:59
  understand that sales will really kind of Drive the force
• 3:02
  and then we come in with marketing and customer service
• 3:04
  and the whole nine yards. That's, that's what we're
• 3:07
  shooting for. Yeah, that's something that
• 3:09
  Chris and I have learned through doing marketing for 20-plus
• 3:14
  years, which sounds terrible to say out loud each and then
• 3:18
  we'll, of course, our other our team as well, but we've sort of
• 3:20
  learned through the years that if a part of the business is
• 3:23
  broken, which seems very obvious right?
• 3:25
  Whether it's customer service, whether its sales You know
• 3:28
  whether there's toxicity and the internal team anything we bring
• 3:32
  them in marketing isn't really going to run through the
• 3:35
  pipeline. So you know, I think that's sort
• 3:37
  of changed our way of thinking. It sounds very practical and
• 3:42
  obvious but you know, it's something that we've kind of
• 3:44
  learned the hard way and really implemented that very strongly
• 3:48
  through our strategy. So now since you since you guys
• 3:53
  brought up the and I love that you separated that it's 20 years
• 3:57
  each If you know, because we're all more spring chickens,
• 4:01
  really, but Chris, why are we back up a little bit?
• 4:04
  And just talk about like how six marketing even came to be,
• 4:08
  right? So how did you know your how you
• 4:11
  just got started in the business?
• 4:12
  I think you were in marketing already.
• 4:14
  Give it kind of give us a quick rundown on how that all
• 4:16
  happened. Sure, yeah.
• 4:18
  So we're coming on our 12th 12th year in business.
• 4:21
  We started in Vermont on from Vermont start an agency there
• 4:25
  and then we parlayed over to Saratoga and we have a small
• 4:27
  office in Tennessee as well, but I owned a different company
• 4:31
  before for 17 years. Again, dating myself here.
• 4:35
  But it was a promotional company.
• 4:37
  So we did a ton of events a ton of marketing and idly has that
• 4:40
  background as well. So after that, I took a director
• 4:44
  of marketing position at a pharmacy chain.
• 4:46
  So I was working with multiple agency.
• 4:49
  So kind of a Grassroots you know School of Hard Knocks approach
• 4:53
  to marketing which is why I'm so very focused.
• 4:55
  We're very focused on the entrepreneur.
• 4:57
  The Nation like, we very much believe.
• 4:59
  It's a partnership because we've been on the other end of that.
• 5:02
  And we've worked for different companies as their marketing
• 5:05
  director. It's a long story short, after
• 5:07
  that, 10 year at a couple, you know, owning a business and
• 5:10
  working for a corporation. I said, hey like I have the
• 5:14
  skill set, I want to start something.
• 5:15
  I want to bring something new, and like I said, we started as a
• 5:18
  marketing agency and then we evolved it very quickly to a
• 5:21
  growth agency. It's interesting and Leah, what
• 5:24
  about you? How did, how did you get started
• 5:27
  in the marketing business? Very saranda.
• 5:30
  Pitously. I I'm actually a musician by
• 5:33
  trade and traveled and saying for a while and took a marketing
• 5:39
  position just as a part-time job, got into it and really felt
• 5:43
  like, you know something I enjoyed.
• 5:45
  I'm on the creative side of it. I do like the data geeky side as
• 5:49
  well, which is again, something attracting and grow metrics in
• 5:52
  it. Damn it.
• 5:53
  It. Yeah, so and then I worked at a
• 5:56
  software companies, marketing director, and then worked at
• 5:59
  some other agencies, when my kids were little, I did a lot of
• 6:02
  freelance marketing and then did some client services.
• 6:07
  So I was like, VP of client services at an agency for a
• 6:10
  while and sort of delve more into business development with
• 6:14
  six. And it's been such an excellent
• 6:16
  experience. And something that I really
• 6:19
  believe in. I believe in our team.
• 6:22
  This is a really Big plug here but yeah, I know, right?
• 6:25
  Yeah. But I do I, you know, I think
• 6:27
  that, you know, we're best of and, you know, we really have
• 6:31
  grown a lot over the past few years so that sauce is great to
• 6:35
  be on it. Now, I know we want to talk a
• 6:37
  little bit about kind of what's going on in the marketing
• 6:40
  marketing industry, right now, and Trends, and all that fun
• 6:43
  stuff and talk about how much we all love social media.
• 6:45
  But Before we do that Chris tell us a little bit about your model
• 6:50
  because again, I know outside of just being a growth agency just
• 6:53
  kind of how you work with your clients and kind of how you
• 6:56
  bring the services to the Forefront of what's going to
• 6:59
  best fit their needs. Like, you guys kind of a
• 7:01
  different approach than most marketing companies that I've
• 7:03
  seen. So you want to talk a little bit
• 7:05
  about that? Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:07
  I think we have a different approach.
• 7:08
  I mean, we certainly don't necessarily consider ourselves a
• 7:11
  marketing agency where consultancy that operates and
• 7:15
  delivers the services that we can.
• 7:16
  Salt on. So, you know, I hate to say,
• 7:19
  like, uber, but we're trying to define a new market and
• 7:21
  honestly, what's the best way to help a business grow?
• 7:24
  So, the way we approach that our methodology is to literally it's
• 7:28
  pretty simple 101 meet with clients, listen to what they're
• 7:32
  saying and customize the plan we don't sell packages.
• 7:36
  There's no one-size-fits-all in every single client even within
• 7:40
  the same industry is completely different.
• 7:42
  So we kind of know where most of our clients want to go and where
• 7:46
  they're going to go. Go and how to get there, but the
• 7:48
  order in which we put this in place isn't based on their
• 7:50
  priorities. What's the immediate need?
• 7:53
  And, as long as we have those long-term goals in place then we
• 7:56
  help them get there. Most of our clients have been
• 7:58
  with us for years. Some over a decade.
• 8:01
  We still have our very first client which we're super proud
• 8:03
  of. So yeah, I think that's overall
• 8:06
  just our Focus really? We just want to help them grow
• 8:09
  in any which way we can. Nice, the end the end.
• 8:17
  So let's let's talk about, you know what?
• 8:21
  The listeners want to hear, right?
• 8:22
  And not just us sitting around telling jokes but Current
• 8:27
  trends, marketing agencies, growing your business in
• 8:30
  general, right because you guys are a growth agency.
• 8:32
  So I mean what's what's going on in the growth market?
• 8:36
  Like what do businesses especially now, right?
• 8:38
  Where I don't know if we're heading towards a recession,
• 8:41
  we're in a recession, there seems to be a difference of
• 8:43
  opinion there, but all we all everyone knows that like things
• 8:47
  are getting worse, not getting better.
• 8:49
  So, you know, from a grow house, someone grow their company or
• 8:52
  grow their business and the environment that we're stepping
• 8:54
  into, so I'm good. Good question.
• 8:57
  I mean, it's really different with every single business and
• 9:00
  some businesses are thriving in this economy and some businesses
• 9:03
  are thriving in covid. And the others.
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  Unfortunately, it's the exact opposite.
• 9:07
  You know, I'm excited to talk about Trends and how to grow
• 9:10
  businesses, because I think that's probably which Woods
• 9:13
  everyone is likely listening. For again, we're starting to see
• 9:17
  more of a marketing connected to sales.
• 9:20
  More people are starting to think like us even though that,
• 9:23
  you know, I think we were one of the original companies to come
• 9:26
  up with Idea years ago, but more people are understanding that
• 9:30
  marketing can't be a standalone and sales can't be Standalone
• 9:33
  Apartments. They really have to be Kumbaya
• 9:36
  and work with one another. So that's one of the trends that
• 9:38
  you're seeing on a lot of the blog's lately, you're seeing
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  certain companies like HubSpot were up spot partner, they're
• 9:45
  big into these types of Trends Sandler's.
• 9:47
  Doing the same thing, you're seeing sales sales trainers,
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  Sandler's partnered with hops boss, you're starting to see a
• 9:53
  lot of alignment between sales technology and Cooking, which is
• 9:57
  really good for us, positioning wise.
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  But, you know, from a takeaway for your listeners, you know,
• 10:02
  our do your sales to Barbara to talk to your marketing
• 10:04
  department. Are you guys working together?
• 10:06
  Things of that nature, you know, that's one, I think major Trend
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  and that's the, the age-old argument, right?
• 10:12
  Where marketing is blaming sales for not converting.
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  The leads that bring in and sales is blaming marketing
• 10:17
  saying there's not enough leads coming in.
• 10:19
  And so what you're saying is you know one of the big trends is
• 10:22
  really connecting those two so it's no longer sales and
• 10:25
  marketing but more of One continuous process where they're
• 10:28
  both working in we say Kumbaya working in harmony.
• 10:33
  Yeah, 100%. Because if you think about it,
• 10:36
  right? It's Marketing sales working
• 10:38
  together, making sure the operations and processes are in
• 10:40
  place finances, doing their thing, but there's an element of
• 10:43
  customer service to. So, you know, 101, once again,
• 10:47
  marketing brings in the leads sales, converts, the leads were
• 10:51
  marketing, will help them out. And then customer service comes
• 10:53
  into play, and then everybody is working customer service to win.
• 10:56
  Ensure things like Word of Mouth, start happening referrals
• 11:00
  because that's you know the number one way, most businesses
• 11:02
  grow. Oftentimes Trends can get us in
• 11:06
  trouble because people will come in and say, well we see that so
• 11:10
  and so is doing influencer marketing and we want to do
• 11:13
  influencer marketing, well, why do you want to do influencer
• 11:15
  marketing? Like you know, and then we kind
• 11:17
  of ask the questions and go through a very arduous process
• 11:21
  to get to the point where we say, you know what the problem
• 11:24
  isn't so much that you need to do influencer.
• 11:26
  Marketing problem is that, you know, you need to build a
• 11:29
  foundation first, you know, we need to kind of go through and
• 11:32
  figure out what's going on in your organization, which we keep
• 11:34
  talking about and you know, where can we build it from the
• 11:38
  ground up. So, we actually have a machine
• 11:40
  built that is producing leads, that is, you know, producing
• 11:43
  outcomes, not just the shiny thing that's happening right
• 11:46
  now. That's, you know, in blogs, and
• 11:49
  in Social and all those other things.
• 11:50
  So I think, you know, that's something that we hate to say,
• 11:56
  pride ourselves. Moves on, but I think, you know,
• 11:58
  oftentimes like we recently talked to someone who wanted a
• 12:01
  new website. Well, you know what's really
• 12:04
  going on, you know, are you getting leads, are they going to
• 12:07
  your website? You know, and so then we decided
• 12:09
  you know, what we need to do a project instead and we need to
• 12:12
  do some research before we you know, go ahead and put the shiny
• 12:15
  thing together. Sure.
• 12:17
  So it's very interesting where our conversations go when people
• 12:21
  come in and on you know talking about Trends and things like
• 12:23
  that. What are your thoughts on?
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  On the influence or Market because I feel like that's
• 12:29
  something that everybody sees, right?
• 12:32
  Like everybody that's on social media, they jump on there.
• 12:34
  They see, oh so-and-so's got 25 thousand followers on Instagram
• 12:38
  or, you know, they're getting millions of views on Tick-Tock
• 12:41
  and, you know, is there a value locally?
• 12:45
  And I know you guys work both locally and across the country.
• 12:48
  So I don't know, it's kind of a Barb's question.
• 12:51
  But you know from a local standpoint you know is their
• 12:54
  value and influencer marketing. Like is that something that
• 12:56
  people should even be looking at a hundred percent, but it
• 13:00
  matters what type of business you're in and it matters where
• 13:04
  you are. So if you don't have the
• 13:05
  foundation set you know if you don't have the sales and
• 13:08
  marketing and operations and customer service in place just
• 13:12
  doing the fancy. New thing doesn't make sense,
• 13:13
  influencer marketing is one of the top, if not the top trend of
• 13:17
  2023, but same thing with social media, I never knew social media
• 13:21
  comes out companies, think that they need to be on every single.
• 13:24
  Like, does it make sense for your business?
• 13:26
  Yeah, the thing to ask it certainly has huge upsides for
• 13:30
  certain businesses, you know micro influencers.
• 13:34
  You know. So you don't have to go out and
• 13:35
  pay the Kardashians millions of dollars in post.
• 13:38
  There's micro influencers locally that we've worked with
• 13:42
  that are have a big following, you know.
• 13:44
  So you can align with people that help you promote your
• 13:46
  product because there for lack of a better word popular, you
• 13:49
  know, they built a Around that. So again, I hate to say, it
• 13:53
  depends. But what's going on with your
• 13:55
  business? Sure, it definitely makes sense,
• 13:57
  probably for most businesses at some level, but we need to
• 14:00
  understand where they're at before we save.
• 14:02
  Sure, you know, and if I heard you correctly, what I heard you
• 14:06
  say in there was before you start going into an influencer
• 14:10
  marketing campaign. There's other things you want to
• 14:12
  make sure you have going on or have together first, right?
• 14:16
  Is that that fair? I would say yeah, I mean if
• 14:19
  we're looking at specific, Tactics right?
• 14:21
  We all know that that meta Facebook Instagram ads are key
• 14:25
  component of a lot of people's marketing plans.
• 14:28
  We know that Google ads are always the age-old, go to for
• 14:31
  direct response. We know that having a good
• 14:33
  website, but yeah, you need to make sure that you have the
• 14:36
  right thing, short up. So from a tactical perspective,
• 14:39
  one thing that companies come to us, is what tactics are we
• 14:43
  using? Should we be investing in these?
• 14:46
  Are they giving us a good Roi? It's really hard and you know In
• 14:51
  business owner myself, you know, we're subject to this
• 14:53
  20-something news out, should we try it?
• 14:56
  But really just understanding where it goes in the entire
• 15:00
  landscape of your marketing. Plan is key.
• 15:02
  Otherwise, if you're working with a smaller budget, you
• 15:05
  really could sabotage yourself. You know, and really hurt your
• 15:08
  efforts, I'm skipping some of the other stuff and going right
• 15:10
  to an influencer Kevin. Yeah, it's all about
• 15:13
  prioritizing like what's the best?
• 15:15
  You know, if you're firing on all cylinders and you have a
• 15:18
  brand awareness and you want to build A good following sure, you
• 15:22
  know, jump right on that. But, you know, make sure the
• 15:25
  order is in place. And that's what we help people
• 15:26
  because most people don't know marketing and there's you know
• 15:28
  how it is like something changes every single day and we need to
• 15:32
  be ahead of that to be able to understand, okay?
• 15:35
  It's make sense, it doesn't make sense.
• 15:36
  Maybe let's test it and see what happens and we say the orders in
• 15:40
  place. I mean what do you think the
• 15:41
  order is that people? You know?
• 15:43
  So people are listening to this and they're like, hey like this
• 15:45
  is where I'm at with my marketing up I'm, you know, I
• 15:48
  send out an email and I've got the social I'm on the Google and
• 15:52
  all that stuff. I mean, what, what are the,
• 15:53
  what's the order of how people should be looking at their
• 15:56
  marketing operations? We have a very cystic cystic
• 16:00
  process. So we need to understand the
• 16:02
  market, we need to understand their competitors.
• 16:04
  So, there's a lot of marketing strategy, and a lot of companies
• 16:07
  we work with just go to market, it.
• 16:09
  Sure, let's try a bunch of stuff, so, if the marketing
• 16:12
  strategies in place, you know, your ideal customer or ideal,
• 16:15
  Persona depends on B2B versus b2c.
• 16:18
  If you have the plan in place, Then you can start executing and
• 16:22
  making tactical risks and like tactical.
• 16:25
  Just let's try Tick-Tock and see what happens.
• 16:27
  Let's try Microsoft ads. Is that even an option?
• 16:30
  Let's try programmatic, but without the plan and for in
• 16:33
  place what happens more often than not, as you come in and
• 16:36
  you're learning on the fly. So what's the downside of that
• 16:39
  you waste a lot of money, right? Maybe you strike gold, you know,
• 16:43
  that certainly it's a roulette game at some point there but you
• 16:46
  just don't have the dedicated plan in place and it doesn't
• 16:49
  mean you have to go out and Run a five-year strategic plan,
• 16:53
  right? It's just knowing your audience,
• 16:54
  knowing where they are understanding the trends and
• 16:57
  being able to adapt along with them being agile and and being
• 17:02
  able to change. As you go is highly highly
• 17:05
  important and crucial when you're developing these sounds
• 17:09
  that make sense but really it's strategy first.
• 17:11
  Yeah. And then tactical tactics that
• 17:13
  align with the different, the different strategies you come up
• 17:16
  with. Yeah.
• 17:16
  And we make sure to that, we have ways to measure those
• 17:19
  things like Very carefully and we pivot pretty quickly if we
• 17:23
  find that something's not working.
• 17:24
  But to Chris's point, when we put a plan in place first it
• 17:29
  there's more of a there's more probability for Success, right?
• 17:34
  Such as you know we do work with certain clients depending on
• 17:37
  budget that will take more of a crawl.
• 17:40
  Walk run approach where we try you know certain channels and we
• 17:43
  try certain things first and then if we find that those are
• 17:46
  working than we a those up and we put more budget into those
• 17:49
  until we can get to sort of the At run Pace.
• 17:51
  Yeah. So there are two different
• 17:54
  approaches but we always say. It's best to look at the data
• 17:58
  first. Look at the market decisions
• 18:01
  from there. Yeah I'm sure ICP know your
• 18:03
  personas. Yeah and go from there.
• 18:06
  What? You mentioned Tick-Tock so I
• 18:09
  just got to ask of, you know what I, you know, is Tick-Tock
• 18:16
  with all that it's hyped up to be these days.
• 18:18
  I mean what how do you how do you see Tick-Tock interacting
• 18:21
  with Brands right now or the importance of it?
• 18:24
  I mean you know the relevancy of a B2B client do they need to be
• 18:28
  on Tick? Tock to the need to be doing
• 18:29
  that stuff. Depends on the size.
• 18:32
  B2B, probably not for B2B. Realistically Tick-Tock is just
• 18:36
  a platform short video is highly impactful though, right?
• 18:39
  We live in a world where all used in custom to a world that
• 18:43
  where you get immediate immediate results, share videos
• 18:46
  starting to go that way and you're a videographer.
• 18:47
  So you know more about this than we do.
• 18:49
  I'm not a good one though. Current you're a great one, but
• 18:53
  from the marketing perspective, we see short videos, reels,
• 18:57
  whatever you want to call them tick, tocks working very, very
• 19:00
  well. So, if you Can get your point
• 19:01
  across and a handful of seconds and it's cool and it works and
• 19:04
  it's engaging, go ahead. Yeah, it's there.
• 19:07
  But ask yourself, do you have the resources to come up with a
• 19:11
  dedicated content plan to really be that creative?
• 19:14
  When it comes to assets, every single person that calls us
• 19:18
  every company, pretty much ass about Tick-Tock, what should we
• 19:21
  do? You know, it's the new carrot.
• 19:23
  Yeah, short video is certainly a big component, whether you put
• 19:25
  it on Tick Tock or not is a different because a whole nother
• 19:27
  story. Yeah.
• 19:28
  And that's and, and, you know, week, We're talking about this
• 19:31
  offline before too and I just, you know, the place of social
• 19:35
  media right now in general, right?
• 19:37
  And when it takes, you know, to engage a company to create
• 19:41
  content to go on social media, it's not inexpensive and it
• 19:45
  doesn't matter who you go with and what level of the market
• 19:48
  there in it. There's no cheap option, right?
• 19:51
  Everybody's got that. It's like a Yeti.
• 19:53
  You know, about the the I've heard that this exists but I've
• 19:57
  never seen it and it's the, the cheap and turn right.
• 20:00
  Like I know. So and so it's kind of cheap in
• 20:02
  turn. Does her social media and it's
• 20:03
  amazing. It's like, yeah, it's kind of
• 20:05
  like the Sasquatch man like I, you know, I've heard that that
• 20:07
  exists but I don't have an average actually ever seen it
• 20:10
  myself. I'm just wondering what, you
• 20:12
  know what your thoughts are in General on social media.
• 20:14
  Is there an upside? Is it worth it for companies to
• 20:17
  pay people to do it for them? Or you know, what are your
• 20:20
  thoughts? Guys on social media right now?
• 20:23
  So realistically social media has changed, right?
• 20:25
  Came out and people were like we don't need to be on social
• 20:28
  media. Every business you talk to 10
• 20:30
  years ago Very, very wary about being on social media.
• 20:34
  Now, it's a constant. Now, it's as, as important as
• 20:36
  your website solely for just having position out in the
• 20:40
  public. Now, what's happened with social
• 20:42
  media is organic, social media used to be huge, right?
• 20:45
  You post something, everybody sees it and explain explain
• 20:48
  everyone to organic means for. We know that means.
• 20:51
  Yeah, that's just you posting on your page or, or your profile
• 20:56
  for whatever reason. So, if you post content
• 20:59
  traditionally, six, seven, eight years, Ago.
• 21:02
  It was highly valuable. A lot of people saw.
• 21:05
  So what did Facebook Instagram? Everyone do is they started
• 21:08
  putting algorithms in place to have fewer people.
• 21:10
  See your posts and this is why we marketers always argue about
• 21:15
  about the impact of organic social media.
• 21:17
  You feel like you need to do it, you had success.
• 21:20
  If you've been running this for years and now all the sudden,
• 21:23
  the algorithms are working against you.
• 21:24
  Why do they do that? Because they want you to pay to
• 21:27
  play. Yeah, same thing with Google.
• 21:28
  If you want to Prime space, you got to run.
• 21:31
  We'll add and make sure that your top, otherwise, you're
• 21:33
  going to come up on page 10, 12, 13, unless you're investing in
• 21:37
  SEO, which you should do too. But realistically, social media
• 21:40
  has an impact, you should do some level of of organic.
• 21:44
  Yeah, it's just decreased from where it was before, you know,
• 21:47
  linkedin's best practices, Pope is post four times a day.
• 21:50
  Like come on, that's how realistic even for for you know,
• 21:54
  Enterprise level sales people and things of that nature.
• 21:57
  But if you combine times a day or more times a day, I couldn't
• 22:00
  imagine. Paying a company to do social
• 22:02
  media accounts, not like for that amount of.
• 22:04
  Yes, I'd have read any real effect.
• 22:07
  That's I mean, that's the question that, you know, I have
• 22:09
  the people are asking all the time is, you know, does it
• 22:12
  matter at this point? If I follow best practice, if
• 22:16
  I'm posting twice a week or twice a day, does it matter
• 22:19
  again? It depends on the industry, some
• 22:22
  certainly, but but realistically regular posting will call it a k
• 22:26
  organic just isn't as strong, however, does it solve some of
• 22:31
  Problems. Does it solve customer service
• 22:32
  problems? There's a big Trend where people
• 22:34
  are using social media just to talk with a company chair.
• 22:38
  You know, it also solves problems where if I'm looking up
• 22:42
  your company, not only going to look at your website and your
• 22:44
  reviews which are huge. I'm going to look at your social
• 22:47
  media page. Are you posting?
• 22:49
  What is your culture look like? So again you may not see direct
• 22:52
  Roi so it has a position but it's certainly organic social
• 22:57
  certainly has fallen to the bottom of let's say A a lead
• 23:01
  generation tactics. Yeah, it's more of a window into
• 23:04
  who your business is and what you do, every single one of our
• 23:07
  posts. We do all sorts of posts on our
• 23:09
  Pages. The ones that have the most
• 23:11
  amount of a judgment and it's when people see our people.
• 23:14
  Yeah. What do we do on?
• 23:14
  What's going on? What dog is in the office today?
• 23:17
  These are, these are usually engaging posts half the time.
• 23:20
  It's our parents and mothers and things like that, but but that's
• 23:24
  the point. People want to see what's going
• 23:25
  on. They want to see what's behind
• 23:26
  the curtain other than they see your website.
• 23:29
  And they see where Doing ABC, right?
• 23:32
  We can help you with XYZ social medium.
• 23:35
  Gives it more of a real feel. Yeah, if you want, if you're
• 23:38
  interested in lead generation and you're interested in B2B
• 23:41
  LinkedIn, you know, met up at some level programmatic, these
• 23:45
  are just all fancy tactical words.
• 23:47
  Yeah, but their powerhouses, when you pay to play and when
• 23:50
  you, I was saying, when you say LinkedIn, you're really talking
• 23:52
  about the ad side of LinkedIn, the lead generation, the paid
• 23:57
  side of LinkedIn or not, the not the organic sign.
• 24:00
  We do have a A LinkedIn outreach program that we've done for B2B
• 24:04
  businesses and often times they will connect and they may not
• 24:08
  respond. So that is a good opportunity to
• 24:11
  use that organic strategy on your personal page to get in
• 24:14
  front of them. So that there is some brand
• 24:16
  awareness and eventually when the need arises, they think of
• 24:19
  your company and you know, two things that you guys are both
• 24:23
  saying often is brand awareness and lead generation right in the
• 24:26
  distinction. Between the two of those is
• 24:28
  pretty clear, I think. When you're in the business.
• 24:31
  But when you're not in the business you know it can be a
• 24:35
  little foggy for people. I mean, you know what are your
• 24:38
  thoughts on the differences between lead generation and
• 24:41
  brand awareness and does one come before the other Same.
• 24:46
  Same answer depends on if your goal is to grow followers and
• 24:51
  build a brand and you have buku sales team, crushing it with
• 24:55
  qualified leads, don't run, lead generation or run it a small
• 24:58
  version. The exact opposite if you have a
• 25:00
  brand that is very dominant and you own the market, you need to
• 25:04
  invest Less on things like brand awareness.
• 25:07
  But to answer your question, brand awareness is pretty
• 25:10
  simple. I have a product or service.
• 25:12
  And how many times do we hear Leah that I have the best
• 25:15
  product or Yes, and my customers don't know about me or people
• 25:18
  have never heard of me. Like that's super frustrating.
• 25:21
  When you are a company that you're working Blood, Sweat and
• 25:24
  Tears, not sleeping at night and you know, you're better than
• 25:27
  everybody else in the March air and people just don't know about
• 25:30
  you. And that's brand awareness,
• 25:31
  that's brand awareness. You know, constant being in
• 25:34
  front of people that leadership leadership.
• 25:37
  You know, things of that nature lead generation is we need to
• 25:40
  grow Revenue sharing. We need qualified leads coming
• 25:43
  in, and we need our sales team. Develop enough prospects to have
• 25:47
  enough opportunities, to grow the business.
• 25:50
  So again be to be a little more when you run an e-commerce, its
• 25:53
  direct sales, right? It's a little bit different but
• 25:56
  and you're looking at very different strategies for each
• 25:58
  one of those, right? Like you're not doing the same
• 26:00
  things for brand awareness that you're doing for lead
• 26:02
  generation. No tactically.
• 26:05
  They're they're completely different, but they do work
• 26:07
  together. Sure.
• 26:08
  I don't like we talked about sales and marketing working
• 26:10
  together. When Leah says, you run a lead
• 26:12
  generation strategy and then and then organic So posting helps
• 26:16
  out, she's right, like, you're getting them in the door,
• 26:19
  they're researching you. Now they're going to learn more
• 26:21
  about you and then vice versa, if you create a name in the
• 26:25
  market and people are coming to you, you know, that's going to
• 26:28
  help and that's going to help your lead generation efforts.
• 26:31
  So yeah, I mean is there's lots of areas but those are probably
• 26:34
  the two biggest areas that people come to us.
• 26:37
  I have a business that nobody's heard of or I don't have enough
• 26:40
  leads. Yeah we hear that probably every
• 26:42
  agency here is that you know I think one of the things I've
• 26:45
  heard the most over the years, no matter what I've been doing,
• 26:48
  has been Once I get in front of people, I have no problem
• 26:54
  closing them but I just can't seem to get in front of enough
• 26:57
  people. Like I think I've heard that it
• 26:58
  didn't matter if it was when I was at Sandler or previous to
• 27:02
  that when I was doing commercial snow removal.
• 27:04
  You know, like anytime I talk to anyone that's always the problem
• 27:10
  that they have they just they can't get in front of enough
• 27:13
  people, but they sell everybody that they confront us.
• 27:18
  Sounds like a pretty good statistic to me.
• 27:19
  I was like, wow, everybody, that's it's pretty good.
• 27:23
  Well, if you have a high close rate and you don't have enough
• 27:26
  leads and yeah, it's a marketing problem.
• 27:28
  Yeah. You know, and vice versa you
• 27:30
  more often than not, if you're working for an agency, it's not
• 27:32
  necessarily lead problem. It would be more of a sales
• 27:35
  problem is what we found. But, yeah, I mean that's, you
• 27:38
  know, it's not this again, I keep saying it's not rocket
• 27:41
  science, but if you have qualified leads and you have a
• 27:43
  good sales team and you have good processes to place, your
• 27:45
  business is going to grow it. Not that easy, right?
• 27:48
  You have to take a hard look at every single aspect of your
• 27:52
  business and we do this for ourselves, we hire Consultants
• 27:54
  all the time. We're part of EOS, you know, we
• 27:57
  run, we are customers of saying there were in that program, is
• 28:01
  Vos the entrepreneurial operating system.
• 28:03
  I love that Gina Wickman. Right?
• 28:06
  You know, a contraction what a great book.
• 28:09
  I think I read that like 80 times over the years, who are
• 28:12
  you working with a u.s. we work with Dave Borland.
• 28:15
  Okay, that's yeah, well, he's Marketing.
• 28:18
  Right back in the day. I'm gonna day.
• 28:19
  Yeah, yeah. He's a pretty good guy to work
• 28:21
  with from an EOS standpoint. He knows a couple things about
• 28:24
  marketing agencies and you were right.
• 28:26
  Yeah, it was a perfect higher because he owned a marketing
• 28:28
  agency. I was like, all right, you know,
• 28:30
  the mistakes that either you've made or were making and help us
• 28:32
  grow. But no, it's been, it's been
• 28:34
  life-changing. Like we've been very good on
• 28:36
  marketing, we had very good on sales.
• 28:37
  You know, we, you know, full disclosure where, you know, we
• 28:40
  try to work a processes, so we can be more efficient for our
• 28:42
  clients for ourselves, you know, so we can sleep at night, but
• 28:46
  EOS is helped out. So you get this sleep at night
• 28:48
  sometimes bullshit. I know Chris is like, what, what
• 28:54
  other kind of Trends are you seeing for 2023?
• 28:56
  I mean, what's you know, if someone's listening to this,
• 28:59
  what's the big things they should be thinking about for
• 29:01
  2023 or watching out for you? Want to scare tactic one?
• 29:05
  Yeah, well, yeah, Lil Duval's do the do the Kumbaya one and the
• 29:08
  scare tactic one. Alright.
• 29:10
  Let's, let's start with the bad before the good.
• 29:12
  Okay, so everybody here is data privacy.
• 29:14
  So data has completely changed and you're going to hear this.
• 29:17
  More and more frequently from marketers is that without full
• 29:22
  disclosure of. I know everything about you
• 29:24
  Mike. You know, your kids where they
• 29:25
  go to school, every single, the more data privacy comes up the
• 29:29
  worst, digital marketing works. It's still the best out there.
• 29:32
  It still has a, has a very large, part of your budget
• 29:35
  compared to traditional and everything else.
• 29:38
  But just having a lack of targeting capabilities.
• 29:42
  That before you could reach, hey, I want to reach this SEO
• 29:45
  for this reason and get right on the phone with them with it.
• 29:47
  With a targeting tactic, you can't do that anymore.
• 29:50
  So Google Apple, they're all fighting right now when it comes
• 29:53
  to data. So if you take anything away
• 29:55
  from this, this podcast first-party data is your best
• 29:59
  friend. What does that mean?
• 30:00
  That means put a lot of efforts and to building relationships
• 30:04
  with people and getting their information.
• 30:06
  If you have their birthday, if you have their email, you have
• 30:09
  their phone number. That is highly valuable data as
• 30:12
  opposed if we have to Target, 25 to 54 year-old a male's that
• 30:17
  live in this area, Or emails or what have you?
• 30:19
  It's just completely changed last year.
• 30:22
  This was a big change, its cost of acquisition, ten times what
• 30:27
  it was five years ago, Sharon. So it's just, it's, I mean,
• 30:30
  again, it's much cheaper than a lot of the other, a lot of the
• 30:33
  other marketing methods, but data is going to be key in the
• 30:37
  more data that you own the better marketing, you're gonna
• 30:40
  be able to do so run those newsletters, get people to
• 30:44
  engage, get them to message you get their phone numbers, you
• 30:47
  Text them if you're in that type of business later, but the more
• 30:50
  data you have the better your marketing will be.
• 30:52
  So it's a super scary area. But so that's the, that's the
• 30:57
  Doom and Gloom the Doom and Gloom, but the Golden Age of
• 30:59
  marketing, we hate to say has said, kind of sunset or on its
• 31:03
  way out. But Leo, what's the, what's a
• 31:05
  good one. Wait, what's a good way?
• 31:08
  I did the Doom and Gloom. So Chris is good.
• 31:10
  Cop bad cop here Lee. He did the what to be afraid of
• 31:14
  and 2023. We want to know what is the
• 31:18
  Shiny. Happy positive thing to look out
• 31:21
  for the trend for 2023 and marketing.
• 31:23
  Sure. So my background is B2B
• 31:26
  marketing, although we do do some b2c as well.
• 31:29
  And six from a B2B perspective, I would say utilizing.
• 31:35
  Like I talked about earlier LinkedIn for outreach seems to
• 31:39
  be a really, really good area right now, that could eventually
• 31:44
  kind of like what Chris is saying.
• 31:45
  And now I'm doing Doom and Gloom, you know, could Could
• 31:48
  eventually out kind of, you know disappear.
• 31:53
  But for now it's a really great way to get in front of your
• 31:55
  prospects and a very personalized way.
• 31:58
  Account-based marketing is still alive and well, account-based
• 32:02
  marketing is really just getting in front of those people that
• 32:05
  you want to get in front of and choosing your Wales.
• 32:08
  There's different types of account based marketing.
• 32:10
  There's one to one strategy where you're reaching out kind
• 32:12
  of individually to those people that you really want to get in
• 32:15
  front of. And then there are sort of like
• 32:17
  And too many, right? Sure you're doing sort of a more
• 32:20
  of a net approach so there's the hook approach where you're
• 32:23
  looking for that particular fish, using a very specific bait
• 32:27
  and you're getting in front of those people that you want to
• 32:29
  get in front of. We put together playbooks often
• 32:32
  for our customers, where we would take kind of an
• 32:36
  omni-channel approach and we take them through the pipeline.
• 32:39
  So, we do very top of funnel content, mid funnel and bottom
• 32:43
  of funnel content and kind of take them through that process
• 32:47
  to At them to either talk to a sales rep, whatever that call to
• 32:50
  action is. Yeah.
• 32:51
  That's still very alive and well and it's something that we use
• 32:55
  very often. With our B2B clients for Shiny
• 32:59
  Happy stuff, I don't know what else.
• 33:01
  Again kind of augmenting that lead generation strategy using
• 33:05
  organic using those other tools. I think is really important and
• 33:09
  and you know valuable content is still super important.
• 33:12
  Yeah no. It's just getting the right type
• 33:14
  of content in front of people that Hers that, you know, maybe
• 33:19
  you can gate and put a form in front of it and collect a email,
• 33:23
  so that we don't have to rely on iOS data.
• 33:26
  So, you know there's different Scrappy ways that we can get in
• 33:28
  front of people. Still Scrappy.
• 33:30
  Scrappy that's my favorite. I named a dog.
• 33:34
  That one city. Yes.
• 33:35
  Yeah. Now I'm scrolling.
• 33:38
  No, no, no. Chris is going to charge me a
• 33:40
  dollar because I just scrolled. But, you know, that's, that's
• 33:43
  really the the gist of it and, you know, being creative and And
• 33:47
  really knowing your personas and your ideal customer profile is
• 33:52
  super important and that's usually where we start with
• 33:54
  people is really understanding what makes them tick even down
• 33:59
  to like you know, where are they on the disc profile?
• 34:01
  And they you know what if there are they D and ins or see?
• 34:06
  You know, what's important? What resonates with them?
• 34:08
  Those are all really important things.
• 34:10
  Yeah, you know, I think it's important to remember that.
• 34:13
  We are marketing to human beings.
• 34:15
  We are human beings and to really Stand, like, what is
• 34:18
  their pain and how can we address that pain and help them
• 34:21
  to reach their goals? I think real real testimonial to
• 34:26
  Matt over at Sandler's. I'm listening to Lea talking,
• 34:28
  she's talking about pain and discus assessments and if you're
• 34:32
  not familiar with disc, you should definitely check that out
• 34:34
  to D is see assessments personality assessments but huge
• 34:39
  tool though. Building buyer profiles and
• 34:41
  buyer personas right as far as discos because everybody likes
• 34:45
  to be sold to a certain way or likes to be marketed to a
• 34:48
  certain way and I know I'm kind of higher on the D scale and So
• 34:53
  when people start giving me too much detailed stuff, I start to
• 34:56
  get irritated and I'm like, listen that, you know, I don't
• 34:59
  want to talk to you anymore. Can you, can we not have this
• 35:01
  conversation? You know, like I just and it's
• 35:03
  just my personality or like if I'm talking to someone who's a c
• 35:06
  and I'm getting frustrated because they want all this
• 35:09
  detail and I'm like really necessary, but for them it is
• 35:12
  right. So I gotta I gotta learn.
• 35:14
  Learn to change my Approach But Rising lie.
• 35:17
  I'm a heii. So I'm like, I'm like the golden
• 35:19
  retriever of personalities. Yeah.
• 35:23
  Just like me. Yeah.
• 35:25
  Well if it makes you feel any better, I'm like a hi-dee-hi.
• 35:27
  I okay. So, like and I am just a little
• 35:30
  bit more D than I and I have absolutely no.
• 35:33
  See whatsoever zero. Yeah.
• 35:36
  None. I'm part C.
• 35:38
  Believe it. How are you man?
• 35:39
  Yeah, it's weird. Chris, I'm Addie, and, and I
• 35:42
  surprised. Yeah, I think the takeaway here
• 35:45
  is just knowing how to communicate.
• 35:47
  So whether you're creating advertising or whether you're
• 35:50
  writing a proposal, if you have somebody that does Don't want a
• 35:53
  lot of details, don't get in their way of buying read, like,
• 35:57
  like to me. If you give me a bullet points,
• 35:59
  great sounds great, buy it, if it make mistake, I'm okay with
• 36:02
  that. There's different personality
• 36:03
  types that don't think like that.
• 36:05
  They want to make sure that are, although you know, the engineer
• 36:08
  mindset, like all the theories there and all the logic is
• 36:11
  there. You know where I'm ok, just
• 36:13
  making mistakes, things of that nature.
• 36:15
  But these are big type of strategic things that we look
• 36:19
  into when we're creating ads or when we're developing profiles,
• 36:22
  but it can. This is a game changer.
• 36:24
  If you think about it, we know, Mike and I are D's, we know
• 36:27
  Lea's and I, you know, going in or creating advertising for Leah
• 36:31
  specifically, the don't want to call you a call the retriever,
• 36:34
  but that's hilarious that attracts the golden retriever,
• 36:38
  you know, and just get you to participate is really just the
• 36:41
  first part of that quote unquote funnel.
• 36:44
  We want to create awareness and make sure that you get the right
• 36:47
  message to the right person at the right time.
• 36:50
  That is the key when it comes to marketing, specifically in the
• 36:52
  right place. A stew.
• 36:53
  Yeah, exactly. You know, it's like most, like,
• 36:56
  for example, in this is generalizing but like, an IT
• 36:59
  person. Yeah.
• 37:00
  Don't necessarily want to be reached out to on LinkedIn
• 37:02
  sometimes, right? Not always, but sometimes that's
• 37:05
  the case. So, we had to be really creative
• 37:07
  and where we reach them. Hey, so, that's sort of what we
• 37:09
  take into place when Chris and I keep talking about putting
• 37:12
  together research and a plan, which sounds horrible when
• 37:15
  you're saying research and plan and Audits and all these things.
• 37:17
  But that's the reason why we, so, very exciting.
• 37:19
  No, it's not very exciting, but when it comes down to your
• 37:22
  budget, And your dollars and you know, wasting those are actually
• 37:26
  getting some real return on investment than those things are
• 37:29
  very important. Yeah.
• 37:31
  You know, it's funny I used to be such a geek for the disk
• 37:35
  stuff and all I keep thinking of you said that about the golden
• 37:38
  retriever is I used to have this one thing I would do with High
• 37:42
  personalities and it was, I would tell them, I would like
• 37:45
  them, no matter what so, because, you know, a high either
• 37:47
  biggest fears that they won't be liked by the /.
• 37:49
  That's why they have buyer's remorse so much because they
• 37:51
  like, say, yes, because they want them to To be like to know.
• 37:54
  And so, every time I was with a high, I and I was talking to my
• 37:57
  be like, Hey, listen, even if you say no, I'm going to like
• 38:00
  you, no matter what you said that before, the that you would
• 38:02
  like me, even if I bomb the podcast, I appreciate that.
• 38:04
  Well, you know, I must have sensed that your II personality
• 38:08
  when you've been bamboozled, even Bamboozled.
• 38:14
  So I know we're wrapping up here again, turn time, but any other
• 38:18
  things to watch out for 2023. What if someone is going to
• 38:22
  smartly And their marketing dollars.
• 38:24
  Obviously, other than hiring you, what should they be looking
• 38:27
  at, or what should they be doing?
• 38:31
  Certainly just take a hard look internally.
• 38:33
  I think probably one of the big changes is because we're coming
• 38:36
  out of quote-unquote covid. Things are starting to level out
• 38:40
  from From perspective. So covid, forced us to be
• 38:43
  reactionary, right? All of our marketing plans, all
• 38:46
  these massive, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars
• 38:48
  in trade shows, went out the window that's coming back.
• 38:52
  People want to see other people, they want to be in person, you
• 38:55
  know I think this is the first year that my conference schedule
• 38:57
  is is starting to fill up in the last three years.
• 39:00
  So but it's a little ball so you can start to plan a little bit
• 39:04
  longer. So instead of being reactive for
• 39:07
  a quarter or a month you know maybe it's a half a year but be
• 39:10
  aware that people want to see people.
• 39:13
  So sales, a lot of people have been forced to be on Zoom calls
• 39:16
  you know instead that works great for some people and then
• 39:18
  other people they want to do the lunch and learns and being
• 39:21
  person and things of that nature.
• 39:23
  So you're starting to see things start to Trend back towards
• 39:26
  personal connection. I think is Only one of the
• 39:29
  things I would say, the anything.
• 39:33
  Hmm, come up for my end. I mean, I agree with Chris.
• 39:36
  I think people are definitely wanting to connect with other
• 39:39
  people. I also think people are engaging
• 39:42
  more like I just said earlier, you know, with content and
• 39:45
  learning and growing and not stagnating, you know?
• 39:50
  So during covid, I think that, you know, obviously was horrible
• 39:54
  and very depressing, but I think now people are engaged.
• 39:57
  Again, they want to grow Row. They want to grow as people and
• 40:01
  they want to grow their businesses as well.
• 40:03
  So you know, that's something I'm seeing I'm I'm on calls
• 40:06
  pretty much all day. Yeah.
• 40:07
  You know with with prospects and that's really the trend that I
• 40:10
  see, okay. And if people want to talk to
• 40:14
  you learn more about how you can help them.
• 40:16
  Where do they find you on Tick? Tock unticked out?
• 40:20
  Yes, you can. I mean, here's the plug, but you
• 40:24
  can find us at six top marketing SI x dot marketing for there's
• 40:28
  no Dot-com just going to sit 6. Marketing.
• 40:30
  You can book a meeting with Leo right away.
• 40:32
  You can see our content, but we're happy to answer any
• 40:35
  questions where big part of this community and we're very much
• 40:38
  want to give back to the community.
• 40:39
  So if anybody even has a question you're like, hey I have
• 40:41
  no budget, I don't know what to do, give us a call, we'll help
• 40:44
  you put you in the right direction, but we're totally
• 40:47
  happy to to answer any questions.
• 40:49
  But you can notice on chat, you can have some social or just go
• 40:52
  to our website. That might be the easiest
• 40:54
  Website. And social media or on all the
• 40:58
  channels, we're on all the channels except except except
• 41:01
  ekta, are you on the Twitter? We are on the Twitter and he
• 41:04
  tweet tweet. Tweet occasionally.
• 41:06
  We tweet honestly largely when we're at shows, but Twitter is
• 41:10
  an interesting area. Want to talk about Trends.
• 41:12
  Yea, what Zeal on buying? Twitter?
• 41:13
  That's it. That's an interesting space to
• 41:15
  see what happens. I'm not pro.
• 41:17
  I'm not, I'm not con, but it's an area to pay attention to for
• 41:21
  2023 because there could be a fair amount of opportunity
• 41:25
  there. Again, I guess if microblogging
• 41:28
  is something that's a strategy for your company and your brand,
• 41:31
  but again, I guess that would be one of those.
• 41:32
  It depends identifiers, but those types of tactics you just
• 41:38
  you test, right? Okay.
• 41:39
  All right. Let's just, let's start running
• 41:40
  some some tweets. It's a terrible way to put that.
• 41:43
  Right. Start tweeting inside putting
• 41:45
  some, you know, maybe you're capturing a space.
• 41:47
  That's, you know, there's a whole demographic during a
• 41:49
  graphic of people that came back to Twitter because of Elon,
• 41:52
  there's a whole demographic that left.
• 41:54
  So if that happens to fit your target, Summer.
• 41:57
  Hey, it might make sense but again, just test it.
• 41:59
  If you don't know what to do with any marketing tactic test,
• 42:02
  it minimally, don't go all in and spend tens of thousands of
• 42:04
  dollars on tactic tested. If it works do more of Moria
• 42:09
  Hank, small Miss small right. Well, guys, thank you so much
• 42:13
  for coming in, really appreciate it.
• 42:15
  Coming in to talk to us about growth agencies, marketing, and
• 42:19
  all the stuff that helps people grow their business.
• 42:21
  So, and if you're listening, check us out.
• 42:23
  You can find us, Saratoga business report.com.
• 42:26
  Mom, Saratoga Today newspaper.com and everywhere
• 42:30
  that you get podcasts. We are buying local.
• 42:32
  Saratoga. Thanks for listening.