Latest / Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas / Navigating Mental Health & Relationships ft. Ira Khan

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Navigating Mental Health & Relationships ft. Ira Khan · Love Matters With Leeza Mangaldas

0:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Love Matters. I'm Lisa Mangeldas, and
0:08
Speaker 1: before we begin today's episode, I'd like to request that
0:12
Speaker 1: you review, rate, and comment on this podcast wherever you're
0:15
Speaker 1: tuning in, because we love receiving feedback from you, and
0:19
Speaker 1: we're going to be reading some of the most interesting
0:20
Speaker 1: reviews and comments at the end of each show. On
0:24
Speaker 1: that note, let's dive right in. Today we're going to
0:27
Speaker 1: be talking about a topic that is often hidden behind
0:29
Speaker 1: closed doors, even though it impacts all of our relationships,
0:33
Speaker 1: mental health. How does mental health impact how we're able
0:38
Speaker 1: to connect with our partners, and how can couples navigate
0:41
Speaker 1: challenges that come with mental health with empathy and resilience.
0:45
Speaker 1: That's what I'm going to be chatting about with our
0:47
Speaker 1: wonderful guest. Ira khan Aira is the founder and CEO
0:51
Speaker 1: of Agatsu, a foundation dedicated to promoting mental well being.
0:55
Speaker 1: She's someone with deep compassion who approaches the mental health
1:00
Speaker 1: journey as I conduit to achieving an awareness of personal truth.
1:05
Speaker 1: I hope I have paraphrased accurately, but I'd love Ira
1:08
Speaker 1: for you also to tell us a little bit more
1:10
Speaker 1: about your work and the deeply personal place that it
1:12
Speaker 1: stems from.
1:14
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here.
1:18
Speaker 2: I guess my work started because of my lived experience
1:22
Speaker 2: and because I got diagnosed with clinical depression and it
1:26
Speaker 2: was unnecessarily difficult to navigate, and I also developed a
1:33
Speaker 2: fear of having to go through that experience, and that
1:38
Speaker 2: then that fear extended to other people. So if someone
1:41
Speaker 2: else is struggling with their mental health, I'm probably more
1:43
Speaker 2: scared than they are for themselves because I'm like, no,
1:48
Speaker 2: it's not fun, save it before it gets bad. So
1:52
Speaker 2: that's kind of where it stemmed from. And then, you know,
1:58
Speaker 2: I didn't want to just on a whim do it,
2:01
Speaker 2: because mental health is something that is sensitive and you
2:03
Speaker 2: have to take it's a big responsibility to be working
2:09
Speaker 2: in mental health, and so I spent a bunch of
2:11
Speaker 2: time thinking about it, reading about it. To me, mental
2:13
Speaker 2: health extends beyond just mental health disorders. And to me,
2:17
Speaker 2: it's called a mental health company because there was no
2:20
Speaker 2: option of life in the form as to what are
2:24
Speaker 2: you working in, So it definitely extends to more than that.
2:27
Speaker 2: And so yeah, now we have a community center and
2:31
Speaker 2: a clinic, and yeah, that's a.
2:35
Speaker 1: Thing you know, the who estimates that one in eight
2:40
Speaker 1: people are living with mental illness. I think the other
2:45
Speaker 1: seven are just undiagnosed. And I'm not even kidding, but
2:50
Speaker 1: I think that people underestimate how common it is to
2:54
Speaker 1: at some point in your life have a mental health
2:58
Speaker 1: issue and you're all So there's not sufficient distinction, perhaps
3:02
Speaker 1: between a clinically diagnosed disorder and just having a bad day.
3:06
Speaker 1: People maybe have a hard time distinguishing between mental health
3:10
Speaker 1: and mental illness. How would you distinguish between those?
3:13
Speaker 2: I think mental health is the same as physical health,
3:15
Speaker 2: so just the state of your body and the state
3:19
Speaker 2: of your mind. But you're right, people use mental health
3:22
Speaker 2: as a as if it's a bad thing. There's already
3:25
Speaker 2: a negative connotation to whatever sentence you are saying if
3:28
Speaker 2: you are using the word mental health. So definitely separate
3:33
Speaker 2: the fact that when at least Atgatsu and when I'm
3:36
Speaker 2: talking about mental health, I just mean the state of
3:39
Speaker 2: your mind. What is what is your relationship with yourself?
3:44
Speaker 2: What is your relationship with your parents and your friends,
3:47
Speaker 2: what is your relationship with you know, your job or
3:49
Speaker 2: whatever it is that you want to do with your life,
3:53
Speaker 2: and your mental state of mind. Affects your body a lot,
3:57
Speaker 2: So if you've got stressed, you'll get constipated. There's a
3:59
Speaker 2: whole you know connection, So all of that is your
4:02
Speaker 2: mental health, and then there is mental distress, and then
4:09
Speaker 2: there is mental disorders. And I would say that the
4:12
Speaker 2: clinical aspect of it, when you go to a psychiatrist
4:16
Speaker 2: and they diagnose you with a disorder, is when you
4:18
Speaker 2: would say that you have a disorder. And then there's
4:21
Speaker 2: a whole spectrum in the middle that a lot of
4:25
Speaker 2: people fluctuate between. And it's very important to realize that
4:33
Speaker 2: everybody has mental health. There are some people who are
4:39
Speaker 2: struggling with their mental health and go through a lot
4:43
Speaker 2: of mental health distress, and then there are people with
4:46
Speaker 2: very severe mental health disorders. Because right now what has
4:51
Speaker 2: happened is sometimes because we are trying to spread awareness
4:55
Speaker 2: about it, we've kind of negated the people who are
4:58
Speaker 2: going through very civil your mental health disorders. And it's
5:02
Speaker 2: great that we're spreading awareness, but they kind of need
5:04
Speaker 2: to find a balance between the two. It'll happen slowly,
5:11
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's very important to tell the difference because
5:14
Speaker 2: also how you approach it then changes. Yeah.
5:20
Speaker 1: I also really like this term that I learned from
5:24
Speaker 1: your work emotional hygiene.
5:26
Speaker 2: Could you explain that for us? I don't know whether
5:28
Speaker 2: it's a technical term, but I heard it in a
5:31
Speaker 2: dead talk by this psychologist called Guy Wench, and it
5:36
Speaker 2: was something that I had been trying to articulate for
5:39
Speaker 2: a long time and he finally said it, and I
5:40
Speaker 2: was like that, that's what I meant. And it's basically
5:45
Speaker 2: the fact that you have your physical hygiene routine, and
5:51
Speaker 2: you know, the world has figured out a bunch of stuff.
5:53
Speaker 2: You know, you're supposed to wash your hands, and because
5:55
Speaker 2: people started washing their hands, our life expectancy went up
5:58
Speaker 2: as a civilization by many years. And so if we
6:03
Speaker 2: learned small basic things that we could do for our
6:07
Speaker 2: emotional well being and do. When I say hygiene, I
6:11
Speaker 2: mean do daily, irrespective of whether you're having a bad
6:14
Speaker 2: day or not. So it's not that I do it
6:16
Speaker 2: because I'm not feeling good. I do it generally. And
6:20
Speaker 2: that's what I mean by emotional hygiene. And the thing
6:23
Speaker 2: is that psychology and neuroscience and all those fields have
6:30
Speaker 2: figured out what we can do. We just don't know it.
6:33
Speaker 2: Nobody's taught our parents and our teachers, so they haven't
6:36
Speaker 2: taught us, and so we could be doing these things,
6:38
Speaker 2: but we're not doing them. And if we did them,
6:41
Speaker 2: we wouldn't get to I mean, we'd get to distress
6:45
Speaker 2: and disorder much less we know how to cope with
6:47
Speaker 2: it differently. So that's what I mean by emotional hygiene.
6:50
Speaker 2: And I have tried at Agatsu to create a simplistic
6:54
Speaker 2: video to sort of explain to you what the basics
6:57
Speaker 2: of it are with examples, because I feel like a
7:00
Speaker 2: lot of people say, oh, do this, or process your
7:02
Speaker 2: feelings or do that, and they don't tell you how
7:05
Speaker 2: to do it. So it's a three and a half
7:09
Speaker 2: minute video. It could be a six hour video, so
7:14
Speaker 2: there's lot more to it, but I feel like it's
7:16
Speaker 2: a good starting point.
7:17
Speaker 1: I feel like even though obviously we're meant to steer
7:20
Speaker 1: this conversation towards navigating relationships with you know, when you're
7:26
Speaker 1: when you're someone living with a mental health issue. But
7:31
Speaker 1: I have to ask, now that we're on the topic,
7:33
Speaker 1: if we can share some of the best practices daily
7:36
Speaker 1: best practices to keep your emotional hygiene.
7:42
Speaker 2: So some of it is a process like self awareness,
7:46
Speaker 2: because so it will take you some time to build
7:48
Speaker 2: that self awareness. It's not something to attain self awareness.
7:53
Speaker 2: It's about getting good at the practice of self awareness.
7:55
Speaker 2: So if you someone gave me the analogy of like
7:58
Speaker 2: a CCDB camera, and it's always going to move around
8:02
Speaker 2: because things will be happening in your life right and
8:06
Speaker 2: you need to be aware of what's going on in
8:09
Speaker 2: the world, and self awareness would be when you turn
8:12
Speaker 2: it towards yourself in that moment. So right now, am
8:17
Speaker 2: I feeling awkward about my feet? Is me trying to
8:21
Speaker 2: be self aware? What am I feeling right now is
8:27
Speaker 2: me being self aware in the moment. It does not
8:29
Speaker 2: mean I have achieved self awareness. It's not something to achieve.
8:33
Speaker 2: It's something that you do. It's a verb. I guess
8:36
Speaker 2: it's a nice way to put it. What I really
8:41
Speaker 2: picked up from the guy bench video is emotional injuries,
8:47
Speaker 2: which I think is genius. I was like, thank you.
8:50
Speaker 2: So he says that as human beings, we constantly get rejected, fail,
8:56
Speaker 2: stuff happens, and if you count that as an emotional injury,
9:00
Speaker 2: then you will treat it before you move forward. So
9:05
Speaker 2: if I failed in an exam, sure I should figure
9:08
Speaker 2: out why I failed and do better next time. But
9:11
Speaker 2: before I do that, I can just take ten minutes
9:14
Speaker 2: be and put like a bomb because if But instead
9:18
Speaker 2: what we do is, oh, you're such a stupid person,
9:22
Speaker 2: and you should yourself or you think badly of yourself.
9:26
Speaker 2: If you get rejected, you're like, oh, it's because I
9:28
Speaker 2: was fat, or because I was stupid, or yeah whatever.
9:33
Speaker 2: Whereas if you got a cat, you won't take a
9:35
Speaker 2: knife and be like, oh, let's make it deeper, right,
9:37
Speaker 2: you would put the band aid. Even for your child,
9:40
Speaker 2: you would put the band aid and then explain that
9:43
Speaker 2: knives are sharp and you need to be careful. So
9:46
Speaker 2: because you don't want to be whiny, um, you're supposed
9:53
Speaker 2: to be like, oh, it's okay, and move on. It
9:55
Speaker 2: is okay, move on, don't play victim, but at least
9:58
Speaker 2: treat the wound and then move on. So it's not
10:01
Speaker 2: about playing victim. It's about acknowledging that you got hurt.
10:04
Speaker 2: It could be a little hurt, but it's still a hurt.
10:08
Speaker 2: Do something about it and then could work hard or
10:11
Speaker 2: you know, push yourself. Do all of that. It's gonna
10:14
Speaker 2: help you push yourself if you healed from the little injury.
10:17
Speaker 2: And sometimes we do things and we're like why we're
10:19
Speaker 2: not feeling better, And it's because you've identified your need incorrectly,
10:22
Speaker 2: so you're not fulfilling it and so you're not feeling
10:25
Speaker 2: better or whatever it is. And I think the need
10:29
Speaker 2: we forget about the most is intellectual stimulus and the
10:34
Speaker 2: need we ignore the most is connection. My favorite game
10:38
Speaker 2: is guess the social media word for this tip. Anyway,
10:43
Speaker 2: So there's gratitude. I hate the word. I don't hate
10:48
Speaker 2: the concept, but I hate the word. So basically, everybody
10:52
Speaker 2: tells you to be positive and all of those things,
10:54
Speaker 2: I think it's important to understand why you need to
10:56
Speaker 2: be positive and what it means so that you can
11:00
Speaker 2: move towards toxic positivity and still be positive. So basically,
11:10
Speaker 2: we have to be aware of threat right, we have
11:14
Speaker 2: to survive. So if there is a smoke, you will
11:18
Speaker 2: notice it. Baby crying is so annoying, so that you
11:23
Speaker 2: notice that the baby is crying so that you can
11:25
Speaker 2: help the baby. So everywhere in your life you will
11:29
Speaker 2: always first notice threats because you have to save yourself
11:33
Speaker 2: from those threats. So and that's a good thing. It's
11:36
Speaker 2: not a bad thing to be negat to notice the
11:38
Speaker 2: negative in your life because you need to be able
11:41
Speaker 2: to save yourself from it. The thing is, there's so
11:44
Speaker 2: much negative in the sense there's not negative. There's so
11:46
Speaker 2: many threats, whether the bye guy is running past you
11:49
Speaker 2: or you know you're going to bump into something, whatever
11:52
Speaker 2: it is. You need to notice these things. If you
11:55
Speaker 2: get into the habit of noticing those things, you miss
11:59
Speaker 2: out on the not so bad things that are happening
12:02
Speaker 2: in your life. And so if the Rick Shavala says, yes,
12:07
Speaker 2: do a little dance, because you need to consciously focus
12:11
Speaker 2: a little bit more on the things that are going
12:14
Speaker 2: well to not get like zombied out on the things
12:20
Speaker 2: that are going badly. And I think that's what's important
12:25
Speaker 2: about the idea of gratitude because sometimes, like I've tried
12:28
Speaker 2: to write a gratitude journal and I was like, I'm
12:30
Speaker 2: writing the same three things over and over and over again,
12:33
Speaker 2: and I'm not really feeling grateful for them in the moment.
12:36
Speaker 2: I'm grateful for them in my life, but right now
12:39
Speaker 2: I'm not feeling grateful for them. Versus when you look
12:41
Speaker 2: back at your day and you think of all the
12:42
Speaker 2: little things that were actually fun, like when you're Amazon
12:47
Speaker 2: Barcela Arrives be a little excited about that and take
12:51
Speaker 2: that joy because it's all points that are adding up
12:54
Speaker 2: to make your day good or bad. Then there's connection
12:57
Speaker 2: and relationships. Nobody has any friends. Everyone's lonely and sad,
13:03
Speaker 2: and secretly everyone wants friends, So I don't understand why
13:06
Speaker 2: I we'll only in sad. Yeah. Yeah, See, you go
13:08
Speaker 2: up to someone and you tell them you want to
13:10
Speaker 2: be their friend because you want to be their friend,
13:13
Speaker 2: and eight times of ten you will not be rejected
13:17
Speaker 2: because everybody wants to make friends. So yeah, the fact
13:20
Speaker 2: that after school and college you don't really have a
13:24
Speaker 2: place where you're confined with a group of people, so
13:27
Speaker 2: you automatically make friends. You need to put yourself out
13:30
Speaker 2: there and make friends. And a lot of us are
13:32
Speaker 2: very scared of rejection because rejection hurts very badly, So
13:36
Speaker 2: you're allowed to be afraid of it and it's normal.
13:39
Speaker 2: But that's a kind of non negotiable. You know, if
13:44
Speaker 2: you feel like you don't have enough people who love you,
13:47
Speaker 2: if you feel like you don't have enough friends and
13:49
Speaker 2: that makes you sad, A, you're probably not realizing how
13:54
Speaker 2: many people love you. But B, if you truly believe
13:57
Speaker 2: that you don't have enough friends, then go make friends,
14:00
Speaker 2: a thing even your psychiatrist and your doctors can do
14:02
Speaker 2: about that. You have to go out there and make friends.
14:05
Speaker 2: If you feel like you're not as connected to the
14:07
Speaker 2: people in your life as you want to be, then
14:09
Speaker 2: you need to connect with them and spend time on
14:12
Speaker 2: those relationships and invest in those relationships and you will
14:15
Speaker 2: feel connected. Then there's input versus output. There's constant input,
14:22
Speaker 2: your phone, the lights, everything around me. I'm constantly receiving
14:26
Speaker 2: things I'm rarely putting out. So watching TV is input.
14:33
Speaker 2: But if we're discussing our favorite TV show, that's automatically output.
14:37
Speaker 2: And we need both. But we need the kind of
14:40
Speaker 2: lives we live right now. There's much less output than
14:43
Speaker 2: there is input. So whether it's writing, or it's talking
14:48
Speaker 2: to someone, or it's using your mind and body to
14:53
Speaker 2: create or to do, would be output. And that's very
14:58
Speaker 2: important and we need to find by. And the last
15:00
Speaker 2: thing is ask for help. You know, you use your
15:05
Speaker 2: phone on Google Maps. You don't try and figure out
15:07
Speaker 2: how to get there on your own. You're asking for help.
15:09
Speaker 2: You're only afraid to ask for help for this, and
15:12
Speaker 2: it's a little silly. You go to all other professions
15:15
Speaker 2: when you need help, but because of the stigma and
15:19
Speaker 2: the fear, when you need psychological help, you don't reach out.
15:23
Speaker 2: So you need to learn how to ask for help.
15:26
Speaker 2: And actually we have the worst help seeking behavior, So
15:30
Speaker 2: Southeast Asia I think has the worst help seeking behavior
15:34
Speaker 2: in the world. I may be wrong, but I'm pretty
15:38
Speaker 2: sure I'm right in the sense for the least likely
15:40
Speaker 2: to ask for help.
15:42
Speaker 1: There's so much shame around asking for help when it
15:45
Speaker 1: comes to mental health sexual help. Right, Gosh, you've given
15:49
Speaker 1: me so much to think about AIRA that was so profound. Honestly,
15:53
Speaker 1: I'm sure you get better a lot, but I'm just
15:54
Speaker 1: like having my mind blown.
15:57
Speaker 2: I do want.
15:58
Speaker 1: To ask you about your own lived experience of depression
16:02
Speaker 1: and navigating relationships through that, because it seems like your
16:07
Speaker 1: work and so much of what you do to raise
16:08
Speaker 1: awareness comes from such a personal place, and I think
16:11
Speaker 1: it would be so powerful also for people who are
16:14
Speaker 1: going through this to hear that first person perspective. You
16:17
Speaker 1: want to start at the diagnosis, when you know when
16:20
Speaker 1: you didn't have all this information, and maybe it was
16:23
Speaker 1: the struggle to understand what you were going through even
16:25
Speaker 1: for you.
16:26
Speaker 2: So I think what's important to flag is that in
16:30
Speaker 2: an outward sense, I never had any stigma about my
16:33
Speaker 2: own mental health. I judged myself, but I was never
16:38
Speaker 2: afraid of people judging me. So when I started to
16:43
Speaker 2: see the signs and symptoms, I didn't understand what was
16:45
Speaker 2: going on, so I couldn't communicate to my partner because
16:48
Speaker 2: I don't know what was happening either. Once I figured
16:52
Speaker 2: it out, there was never any question of should I
16:54
Speaker 2: tell them, should I not tell them? When should I
16:57
Speaker 2: tell them? Because if you're getting to know, I mean,
17:00
Speaker 2: then you'll I'll tell you pretty pretty soon as soon
17:03
Speaker 2: as it comes up. So that was not a thing
17:08
Speaker 2: that I had to consider or deal with. But I
17:12
Speaker 2: do feel bad for my partner when for my partner
17:16
Speaker 2: at the time when I was discovering my mental illness
17:19
Speaker 2: because I had no idea what was going on, and
17:22
Speaker 2: I couldn't articulate what I needed or what was happening,
17:25
Speaker 2: and so then there was no way for them to
17:27
Speaker 2: know what was happening. And I know that with Popoy Nopur,
17:33
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call him, I call him Pope,
17:36
Speaker 2: We're going to call him Popeye, I hesitated to get
17:40
Speaker 2: into a relationship with him, even though I knew I
17:42
Speaker 2: liked him very much because is IRA's husband, Sir, you
17:46
Speaker 2: can say that he's my husband. We got married in January.
17:53
Speaker 2: He also goes bye yes. So I was hesitant to
17:59
Speaker 2: initially get into a relationship with him because I knew
18:02
Speaker 2: that I liked him very much and I knew that
18:03
Speaker 2: it would be a serious relationship, and I was very
18:07
Speaker 2: excited about that. But b I was like, I'm in
18:10
Speaker 2: this so I have cyclic depression, so it comes, it's episodic.
18:14
Speaker 2: I'm pretty okay in between episodes, but then when I
18:18
Speaker 2: have an episode, I'm even now. I mean, I'm better now,
18:23
Speaker 2: I manage it much better now after eight years, but
18:27
Speaker 2: I'm still in a dip. I was like, I'm so
18:30
Speaker 2: confused in my own head that I shouldn't get into
18:35
Speaker 2: a serious relationship right now. And I went back and
18:40
Speaker 2: forth with myself like so many times, and then I
18:42
Speaker 2: was like, he's a grown undult. I should just tell
18:47
Speaker 2: him what's going on in my head and let him
18:50
Speaker 2: decide if he wants to be in a relationship with
18:52
Speaker 2: me right now, or whether he wants me to get
18:54
Speaker 2: better and then be in a relationship with me, or
18:56
Speaker 2: what we should do about this at all, because I
18:59
Speaker 2: do need to figure it out for myself, because this
19:01
Speaker 2: is a joint decision. And so I think the thing
19:05
Speaker 2: that has helped me most through my entire mental health
19:08
Speaker 2: journey in terms of a partner is it's forget mental health.
19:13
Speaker 2: Your journey with a partner period is it's not you
19:18
Speaker 2: against them. There's the problem, which you both need to
19:22
Speaker 2: figure out because it's a problem that is affecting both
19:25
Speaker 2: of you, and so both of you should be involved
19:28
Speaker 2: in the decision making of how that's going to be
19:30
Speaker 2: dealt with. And so finally I was like, you know what,
19:34
Speaker 2: I call him up and I was like, see, there's
19:35
Speaker 2: a lot going on in my head and doesn't make sense.
19:38
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna tell you every single thought that
19:39
Speaker 2: I'm having and then you help me figure this out.
19:43
Speaker 2: And he was like cool. Suddenly became so much simpler.
19:49
Speaker 2: And so he's known since the beginning. We knew each
19:53
Speaker 2: other before, so he knew about my depression even then,
19:56
Speaker 2: but like he knew I had it, didn't know what
20:00
Speaker 2: it meant, he didn't know what it looked like, none
20:03
Speaker 2: of that. And it genuinely took us four years to
20:08
Speaker 2: get to a place where I was able to helpfully
20:12
Speaker 2: articulate what I was going through and he was able
20:15
Speaker 2: to be there. I mean, he was always trying to
20:21
Speaker 2: be there, but it took us time to reach a
20:23
Speaker 2: place where we could communicate with each other. It required
20:26
Speaker 2: changes for me, it required changes to him. Sometimes he
20:28
Speaker 2: had to call my aunt who's a psychologist, and you know,
20:33
Speaker 2: have meetings with my best friend and him and my
20:35
Speaker 2: aunt to sort of figure out how to be there
20:37
Speaker 2: for me when I couldn't articulate how I needed help.
20:41
Speaker 2: So it was genuinely a process that took time and
20:44
Speaker 2: energy and emotional investment. So, yeah, we figured out a
20:49
Speaker 2: lot of things. And it's all communication and vulnerability. You
20:55
Speaker 2: have to be vulnerable and you have to communicate. When
20:58
Speaker 2: you are vulnerable, the other person's not going to attack
21:01
Speaker 2: you because you're not attacking. And when you communicate, then
21:06
Speaker 2: both people know what is going on, and then you
21:08
Speaker 2: know they love you and you love them, So then
21:10
Speaker 2: obviously you all will make decisions that are pro your
21:14
Speaker 2: relationship and pro each other.
21:17
Speaker 1: So yeah, do you think that it's easier said than done? Though?
21:21
Speaker 1: Vulnerability and communication, especially for people who might not be
21:25
Speaker 1: as aware of the sorts of toolkits that exist for
21:29
Speaker 1: emotional hygiene and mental health, and who sort of project
21:33
Speaker 1: everything onto the partner and sort of seeking therapy.
21:35
Speaker 2: For example. I think a lot of men do this, like.
21:37
Speaker 1: The entire emotional landscape they know was their mother and
21:41
Speaker 1: then it becomes their wife, you know.
21:44
Speaker 2: So to be honest, I didn't have a toolkit in
21:46
Speaker 2: the beginning. What I had was the luxury of therapy
21:49
Speaker 2: and time. So I will say that I could drop
21:53
Speaker 2: out of college and I could take time to try
21:56
Speaker 2: and figure out what is going on with me, which
21:58
Speaker 2: is a luxury that not everybody. Hence, emotional hygiene. It's
22:02
Speaker 2: small little little bits that are inexpensive for the most part,
22:07
Speaker 2: except therapy. The rest of it is not necessarily expensive,
22:12
Speaker 2: and you can do bit by bit by bit every day.
22:15
Speaker 2: The fact that I had been in therapy for a
22:18
Speaker 2: while and I had the luxury to spend time thinking
22:21
Speaker 2: about it, how do I articulate this? Also, my fear
22:24
Speaker 2: made me extremely motivated to find a way to articulate
22:28
Speaker 2: myself for myself and for other people. I think if
22:35
Speaker 2: you understood what vulnerability meant, it would be easier to do.
22:40
Speaker 2: I don't think people understand what vulnerability means, and then
22:45
Speaker 2: you practice a little little every day. You don't go
22:48
Speaker 2: and share everything with everyone on the first day you're
22:52
Speaker 2: you be a little bit vulnerable with different people. Also,
22:57
Speaker 2: you need to be, you know, mindful of who you're
23:00
Speaker 2: being vulnerable too. There may be some people who are
23:02
Speaker 2: not helpful to be vulnerable around, and you need to
23:04
Speaker 2: safeguard yourself so you know, do it bit by bit,
23:07
Speaker 2: assess who you want to talk to and let in
23:11
Speaker 2: how much you want to let each different person in,
23:16
Speaker 2: And it is not a factor of how much you
23:18
Speaker 2: It is not an indication of how much you love them.
23:21
Speaker 2: You may love someone very deeply and not want them
23:25
Speaker 2: to know certain things of your about your life because
23:28
Speaker 2: it may not be helpful. It doesn't mean you love
23:30
Speaker 2: them any less. Chill. We have these strange markers for
23:35
Speaker 2: what love means. When you think about being vulnerable, you
23:38
Speaker 2: think you have to share your deepest, darkest secret. That
23:41
Speaker 2: is not the definition of vulnerability. Being vulnerable is basically
23:46
Speaker 2: telling you, honestly, how I'm feeling in this moment and
23:51
Speaker 2: the things that may be silly but are making me
23:54
Speaker 2: you know, shaky or whatever it is. So when you
23:59
Speaker 2: go for a new class, like an activity that you've
24:02
Speaker 2: never done before. To me, you're already building resilience because
24:06
Speaker 2: you're allowing yourself to be vulnerable in that space. I've
24:08
Speaker 2: never done this movement before, and I'm willing to do
24:11
Speaker 2: it in front of ten people I have never met before.
24:14
Speaker 2: That's me being vulnerable. So you can be vulnerable in
24:18
Speaker 2: lots of different ways. There are many ways to be vulnerable,
24:22
Speaker 2: and I think when you understand what vulnerability is, it's
24:25
Speaker 2: a little it's you can start small, and it's a
24:29
Speaker 2: practice and you get better at it. So I'm sure
24:32
Speaker 2: it's easier said than done, but that's life, and if
24:35
Speaker 2: you did it bit by bit, it would be less
24:39
Speaker 2: easier said than done.
24:41
Speaker 1: I love that you have to try, right, Yeah, were
24:44
Speaker 1: there ever moments where because you were grappling with just
24:50
Speaker 1: daily life, which is complicated as it is, to the
24:54
Speaker 1: idea of a relationship while also having to navigate mental health, etc.
24:59
Speaker 1: Seem like an added challenge or like something that was
25:03
Speaker 1: a source of fear, Like do you think that for
25:06
Speaker 1: some people it might be worth being mindful of what
25:10
Speaker 1: it means to love and be loved when you're also
25:13
Speaker 1: struggling struggling.
25:18
Speaker 2: I think that finding a safe seck your relationship is
25:28
Speaker 2: something that you need to take seriously in any case,
25:34
Speaker 2: and then when you're struggling with your mental health, all
25:36
Speaker 2: the more you want to be mindful of it. I
25:40
Speaker 2: was very fortunate that Popoy is a very compassionate person,
25:46
Speaker 2: and I kind of knew that I wanted to spend
25:47
Speaker 2: my life with him, Whereas I would imagine that if
25:50
Speaker 2: you're in a dating space where you know you're on
25:53
Speaker 2: dating apps and things like that, you're not sure whether
25:57
Speaker 2: you want to spend your life with this person. So
25:59
Speaker 2: it's not about let's try and make it work because
26:01
Speaker 2: we know we want to do this. I haven't even
26:03
Speaker 2: decided if I want to spend my life with you yet,
26:04
Speaker 2: so I have to now decide. I have to now
26:07
Speaker 2: weigh out some questions about, you know, how much do
26:12
Speaker 2: I want to invest in my communication with you, because
26:15
Speaker 2: it's exhausting. So it's really like a process of investment
26:19
Speaker 2: of we will do this, and if you don't even
26:26
Speaker 2: attempt to subjective experience, but if I feel like you're
26:30
Speaker 2: not trying to understand me, it's exhausting for me to
26:32
Speaker 2: try and explain it to you. And I'll just be
26:34
Speaker 2: life fire. I'll rely in my room. It's less exhausting.
26:37
Speaker 2: So with depression, that's a big thing. Getting tired. So
26:40
Speaker 2: a lot of times if I don't have faith that
26:45
Speaker 2: there is any point in communicating, I'm just not going
26:47
Speaker 2: to do it. Too dired, I want to save my
26:49
Speaker 2: energy for things that I have to do. Like when
26:52
Speaker 2: you're a teenager and you have all these make all
26:55
Speaker 2: these bad decisions, It's fine because that's your learning process
26:58
Speaker 2: and that's life, and it's cool. Be heartbroken and you'll
27:01
Speaker 2: get yourself pick yourself up three weeks later and find
27:04
Speaker 2: a new person to flirt with. When you have a
27:07
Speaker 2: mental health disorder, and now I'm not talking about distress,
27:10
Speaker 2: I'm talking about disorder, you do have to take a
27:14
Speaker 2: lot of things far more seriously, make more mindful decisions
27:18
Speaker 2: about a lot of things. And so yeah, in that sense,
27:20
Speaker 2: I think it would impact your relationship. And also, if
27:25
Speaker 2: you have a disorder, the person needs to understand what
27:27
Speaker 2: they're getting into as well, right, So yeah.
27:33
Speaker 1: What are some of the things more people would do
27:35
Speaker 1: well to understand about being in a relationship with someone
27:39
Speaker 1: who is living with a mental health disorder.
27:42
Speaker 2: I think that if you psycho educate yourself, it becomes
27:45
Speaker 2: much easier. When I see psycho educate yourself, I mean
27:48
Speaker 2: understand how a what their particular disorder is, what is
27:54
Speaker 2: common in that disorder generally speaking, but also how specifically
27:58
Speaker 2: that disorder manifests in the person, which will require some
28:03
Speaker 2: time and communication and maybe understanding from their doctor, also
28:07
Speaker 2: what they're going through, some want of reading, and that
28:11
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, because then you realize which part are
28:15
Speaker 2: the symptoms and which parts are in the person's control,
28:21
Speaker 2: because you might get frustrated with someone for something they
28:24
Speaker 2: have no control over, which is unhelpful, versus getting frustrated
28:28
Speaker 2: with someone who was something they do have control over,
28:30
Speaker 2: and therefore they can compromise and help you figure it out.
28:34
Speaker 2: Like once but I moved in with me and then
28:41
Speaker 2: I realized that I needed space, so I had to
28:43
Speaker 2: ask him to move out, which was an extremely difficult
28:48
Speaker 2: conversation because I didn't want him to move out because
28:51
Speaker 2: I didn't want him there. I wanted him to move
28:53
Speaker 2: out because I was feeling so confused and disoriented and
29:01
Speaker 2: I just didn't know what was going on and I
29:03
Speaker 2: needed I thought I needed my space to Jodo start
29:08
Speaker 2: just like figure it out. I still loved him as
29:11
Speaker 2: much and I still wanted to get married to him
29:14
Speaker 2: at some point, but there was just this like weird
29:20
Speaker 2: feeling that I couldn't explain, and I was like, how
29:23
Speaker 2: do I do this? So I did the same thing
29:26
Speaker 2: I did when I wasn't sure whether we should go out.
29:28
Speaker 2: I just told him all the bizarre not bizarre, sensible
29:33
Speaker 2: not sensible thoughts in my head, and we sort of
29:39
Speaker 2: figured he was obviously upset. It was not like whatever,
29:43
Speaker 2: but we sort of figured it out. So you get
29:45
Speaker 2: to know what the person is going through so that
29:47
Speaker 2: you can tell whether this is, oh, you love me less,
29:50
Speaker 2: or this is something that is not necessarily about me,
29:54
Speaker 2: because if I think it's about me as a partner,
29:56
Speaker 2: then I start to get upset about it or feel
30:00
Speaker 2: rejected or feel whatever it is. If I can tell
30:03
Speaker 2: the difference between what is not about me and what
30:07
Speaker 2: is about me, and then I can also tell you, Hey,
30:12
Speaker 2: you think this is about you, but it's affecting both
30:14
Speaker 2: of us, so we need to figure it out together.
30:16
Speaker 2: Versus you can handle this on your own, versus it's
30:19
Speaker 2: actually about the relationship and not you. So once you
30:22
Speaker 2: know these things you can figure out whether it needs
30:26
Speaker 2: to be a situation, or you need my support situation,
30:31
Speaker 2: or you need to give more. Then you can make
30:34
Speaker 2: informed decisions about all those things instead of winging it.
30:39
Speaker 1: I think that also so much of our sort of
30:44
Speaker 1: idealized vision for what a relationship should look like. It's
30:47
Speaker 1: something we've just, yeah, we've been fed some ideas. Often
30:52
Speaker 1: there are absolutely no boundaries, unrealistic, completely in that sort
30:57
Speaker 1: of rosy picture we're presented with what a relationship will like.
31:00
Speaker 1: These templates for what romance and love and relationships, especially
31:03
Speaker 1: heterosexual relationships should look like often completely absurd, actually right,
31:09
Speaker 1: And then you end up feeling guilty or like you
31:11
Speaker 1: can't say something, or that your ability to articulate what
31:14
Speaker 1: you actually need becomes harder because there's a dissonance between
31:18
Speaker 1: what you've been told you should aspire for and what
31:20
Speaker 1: you actually would like.
31:22
Speaker 2: And I think that can be also very difficult.
31:24
Speaker 1: To navigate when your own family is also projecting those
31:28
Speaker 1: idealized this is how your relationship should look like, or
31:31
Speaker 1: your marriage should look like. You know, but I think
31:34
Speaker 1: it sounded to me when you said I told him
31:36
Speaker 1: everything in my head that was a moment of vulnerability.
31:38
Speaker 2: Right, If you're able to.
31:39
Speaker 1: Be honest with yourself even and your partner about what
31:42
Speaker 1: you actually need, the relationship is more likely to be
31:46
Speaker 1: a success.
31:46
Speaker 2: I mean, I think so many relationships crumble under the
31:50
Speaker 2: expectation of the should this is what it should be. Yeah,
31:54
Speaker 2: and I think that like all all movies, right, you
31:59
Speaker 2: have to be apps, like you have to be the
32:02
Speaker 2: other person's everything, which is so unrealistic. What I realized
32:07
Speaker 2: with Boboy is that so sometimes if I would put
32:11
Speaker 2: up on my Instagram story that I'm not doing so well,
32:13
Speaker 2: or I would reach out to multiple people, or like
32:18
Speaker 2: if I called my cousin to sit with me, he
32:20
Speaker 2: would get a little upset because in his mind, he's
32:25
Speaker 2: supposed to be able to take care of me. So
32:28
Speaker 2: he's thinking it's about him not being like me, thinking
32:33
Speaker 2: he can't take care of me, or me thinking I
32:35
Speaker 2: can't trust him. It has nothing to do with him.
32:38
Speaker 2: This happens when someone doesn't tell you something, or when
32:41
Speaker 2: someone is struggling. You're like, how could you not tell me?
32:44
Speaker 2: You know me so well, I'm so trustworthy. It's not
32:47
Speaker 2: about you. But especially in romantic relationships, you're supposed to
32:53
Speaker 2: be the everything for that person, which is not possible.
32:57
Speaker 2: You will get tired, They'll get tired. Supposed to have
33:01
Speaker 2: work friends and football friends and painting friends and school
33:05
Speaker 2: friends and your partner exactly, and all of them together
33:11
Speaker 2: as supposed to meet your social emotional needs, not just
33:15
Speaker 2: your partner.
33:16
Speaker 1: Can we talk a little about how you both sort
33:20
Speaker 1: of worked through the understanding of how best to support
33:25
Speaker 1: and cope with whatever you were struggling with, as well
33:28
Speaker 1: as sort of allow for the relationship to progress in
33:32
Speaker 1: the way that it did because it guys are married
33:34
Speaker 1: now and were there certain things like I don't know,
33:39
Speaker 1: couples therapy or medication or just like arsenal and the
33:44
Speaker 1: mental health toolkit that again many people are reluctant to
33:47
Speaker 1: even try.
33:49
Speaker 2: You know often I mean I think that often we
33:54
Speaker 2: see the partner as.
33:55
Speaker 1: The therapist also, you know, like now you should solve
33:58
Speaker 1: all my problems instead of recognizing there's some external interventions
34:02
Speaker 1: that can help as well.
34:05
Speaker 2: We didn't do couples therapy because we didn't reach a
34:12
Speaker 2: point where we needed it in the sense that this
34:14
Speaker 2: communicating worked for us and we kept working at it
34:19
Speaker 2: and he was open to doing it. I spend so
34:24
Speaker 2: much time thinking about this that I have learned to
34:26
Speaker 2: articulate myself. I've been in therapy for eight years, so
34:30
Speaker 2: you know, I've done my share of the self work
34:32
Speaker 2: to be able to communicate with him. I am on
34:36
Speaker 2: medication and that is my part of the work that
34:39
Speaker 2: I have to do on myself to be able to
34:44
Speaker 2: maintain that relationship with him. If you feel like you
34:47
Speaker 2: need couples counseling, please go for a couple of counseling.
34:51
Speaker 2: It's not shameful at all. Like I said, everybody needs
34:56
Speaker 2: help in various things in their lives, and it's totally
34:59
Speaker 2: fine to us help. Honestly, I feel like a lot
35:05
Speaker 2: of times, sharing and talking about my mental health and
35:12
Speaker 2: just this relationship between us has strengthened our relationship because
35:16
Speaker 2: he gets to know me better, I get to know
35:18
Speaker 2: him better. So if anything, you know, we feel closer
35:24
Speaker 2: to each other while talking about it. So I would
35:27
Speaker 2: genuinely say being you know, having open communication and vulnerability
35:31
Speaker 2: solves most things. So I think that communication is key,
35:36
Speaker 2: and learning to communicate involves.
35:41
Speaker 1: Vulnerability and patience. Yeah, I think that's and trust. Communication
35:47
Speaker 1: is something that so many people struggle with, whether or
35:49
Speaker 1: not they have severe mental health issues. You know, people
35:54
Speaker 1: are just so poor at communication so often that it's
35:57
Speaker 1: a skill worth spending the time on cultivating. You mentioned
36:04
Speaker 1: that you've been on medication. I wanted to also ask
36:06
Speaker 1: about how medication impacted your life, because I think, again
36:11
Speaker 1: it's something maybe people don't fully understand, and there can
36:13
Speaker 1: be some side effects of medication that can impact your
36:17
Speaker 1: intimate life, for example, or various aspects of your life.
36:21
Speaker 2: I suppose please ask your psychiatrist how your medication is
36:25
Speaker 2: going to affect you. But my medication definitely affects my libido.
36:34
Speaker 2: The other option would be it affects my weight. So
36:37
Speaker 2: they're different drugs, and the different drugs have different side effects,
36:40
Speaker 2: and some of you may not have the side effects,
36:45
Speaker 2: or you may have the side effects, and your psychiatrist
36:48
Speaker 2: will be able to tell you what are the most
36:49
Speaker 2: common side effects for the medication that you are on.
36:53
Speaker 2: Certain mental health disorders have a few options of medications
36:58
Speaker 2: that you can try. If you would rather lose your
37:02
Speaker 2: lobido then put on a weight, you can choose which
37:06
Speaker 2: fun which will affect you less. So, yeah, my medication
37:13
Speaker 2: does affect my libido. But I can only say that
37:16
Speaker 2: much about medication because no imagine, even mental health impose.
37:21
Speaker 2: So when you're depressed. When I'm depressed, I have no
37:24
Speaker 2: energy to do anything. So I don't even think about sex,
37:29
Speaker 2: like it's so far away in my consideration because right
37:33
Speaker 2: now I'm just trying to like get up and be
37:40
Speaker 2: when I need to be, Like, I'm too died to
37:42
Speaker 2: do that, so I will only get up to drink
37:45
Speaker 2: water or do anything else when I also have to be.
37:50
Speaker 2: So when you're feeling, when you're when you're not doing well.
37:53
Speaker 2: So I mean it's different for different people, because I
37:55
Speaker 2: have heard that some people want to distract themselves so
38:00
Speaker 2: have lots of sex. I've heard of that as well.
38:03
Speaker 2: I don't know whether it's linked to any disorder, but
38:05
Speaker 2: that's also a coping mechanism. Right to feel love in connection,
38:08
Speaker 2: you find lots of sexual partners and that's how you
38:10
Speaker 2: fill the void in you or whatever it is. For me,
38:14
Speaker 2: it was the opposite. I was just constantly tired, and
38:20
Speaker 2: I would be worried that I would get tired if
38:23
Speaker 2: I tried to have sex. And if I was tired,
38:25
Speaker 2: then I would not be wet, and if I'm not wet,
38:27
Speaker 2: then I will painful sex, and then I will disappoint
38:30
Speaker 2: the person and then it'll just be horrible and you're
38:33
Speaker 2: thinking about all of these things and you're not good
38:35
Speaker 2: to enjoy it, and so I yeah, it definitely completely
38:43
Speaker 2: wrecked my sex life.
38:45
Speaker 1: It's one of the things that again that's like a
38:48
Speaker 1: double stigma, right, So don't talk about that. We don't
38:50
Speaker 1: talk about sex.
38:51
Speaker 2: You don't talk about sex. You don't talk about mental health,
38:53
Speaker 2: and we don't talk about Because we don't talk about sex,
38:56
Speaker 2: we don't talk about how crucial it is to your
39:03
Speaker 2: happiness levels in life. Naturally, as living beings, we are
39:09
Speaker 2: supposed to have sex, and apart from eating and sleeping
39:15
Speaker 2: and shelter, sex is a big part of your natural
39:18
Speaker 2: healthy existence. However, nobody told me that, and mostly it's
39:27
Speaker 2: not actually reinforced to you that you're supposed to be
39:32
Speaker 2: having sex and you need to have a healthy sex life,
39:35
Speaker 2: and that's part of what will add to your net
39:38
Speaker 2: net emotional hygiene, I mean emotional state of mind. There's
39:43
Speaker 2: a scale of depression. If you're at zero, you're really happy,
39:49
Speaker 2: and if you're at fifty you want to end your life.
39:54
Speaker 2: Sex has a bunch of numbers in that, so having
39:57
Speaker 2: sex is very important in your general sense of happyiness.
40:00
Speaker 2: So is sleep, so is you know, all of those
40:02
Speaker 2: things they add up to your general state of happiness.
40:05
Speaker 1: I think this is actually also a artificial separation created
40:09
Speaker 1: between the mental and the physical when where like all
40:12
Speaker 1: connect unified being and they both impact each other so much,
40:15
Speaker 1: and then there's the stigma around acknowledging yeah, exactly both,
40:19
Speaker 1: and so then acknowledging how they can impact each other
40:21
Speaker 1: is like who is talking about that? You know? And
40:24
Speaker 1: I think some people, at least anecdotally from my peer group,
40:28
Speaker 1: regret not having even been given enough information by their doctors,
40:32
Speaker 1: for example, about how their disorder or medication or both
40:36
Speaker 1: might impact their sexual life or sexual function. Yeah, and
40:40
Speaker 1: it can be a bit surprising to you instead of
40:41
Speaker 1: something you've already been a true Yeah.
40:44
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I mean, I love my psychiatrist and she
40:47
Speaker 2: always gives me useful information, but sometimes if I get
40:50
Speaker 2: to ask things and therefore she forgets to tell me.
40:53
Speaker 2: So I didn't. I assumed that my medication was affecting
40:56
Speaker 2: my libido, but I wasn't sure. And when I started
40:59
Speaker 2: put on a lot of weight, I asked her whether
41:01
Speaker 2: my medication was affecting my weight, and she said, I
41:03
Speaker 2: would not put a young adult female on a medication
41:07
Speaker 2: that affects her weight, because that usually then impacts more
41:14
Speaker 2: on other parts of you. Also, there's the diaredness aspect
41:19
Speaker 2: of it, and probably the medication affecting the libido part
41:22
Speaker 2: of it. But there's also just a lack of self
41:25
Speaker 2: worth when you're going through this, and then that automatically
41:28
Speaker 2: affects whether you feel loved enough, whether you feel attractive enough,
41:32
Speaker 2: whether you you know, all of those things as well.
41:37
Speaker 1: I think that some people, unfortunately don't have the support
41:42
Speaker 1: in their own home, either from their parents or their
41:45
Speaker 1: spouse or whoever it is in their environment, to access
41:49
Speaker 1: the tools or care or even just the words to
41:55
Speaker 1: kind of navigate what they're going through.
41:58
Speaker 2: Do you have any tips or I know, I hate,
42:01
Speaker 2: I mean, but I think people in both you know,
42:05
Speaker 2: I do, I do groups might be.
42:07
Speaker 1: Watching like I also want parents and people to think
42:09
Speaker 1: about how they can be supportive of loved ones who
42:12
Speaker 1: might be struggling, as well as people who are struggling
42:15
Speaker 1: to figure out what they can do when their own
42:17
Speaker 1: environment can feel so hostile and so a place where
42:21
Speaker 1: they cannot be vulnerable.
42:23
Speaker 2: So one thing that I tell people is that when
42:28
Speaker 2: you need help, you need help. You may want help
42:31
Speaker 2: from here, but right now, unfortunately, you're not going to
42:35
Speaker 2: get it from here. So you take help from wherever
42:38
Speaker 2: you're getting help, and we'll address this, we'll come back
42:42
Speaker 2: to this, we'll work on this relationship. But right now,
42:44
Speaker 2: you're not getting help from there, and you need help now,
42:46
Speaker 2: so you take help from wherever you're getting help. Don't
42:48
Speaker 2: be snobby about where you're getting help from. You may
42:50
Speaker 2: want your parents to understand and love you right now,
42:53
Speaker 2: but for whatever reason, they're not being able to. Maybe
42:56
Speaker 2: they don't have the away see they love you, Okay,
42:59
Speaker 2: no question about that. But everybody has been brought up differently,
43:03
Speaker 2: and everybody's going through different things in their lives. It's
43:05
Speaker 2: very painful for your parents to see you in pain,
43:08
Speaker 2: so it is natural that there are there will be
43:11
Speaker 2: times when you're in pain and your parents would rather
43:14
Speaker 2: not see it because it really hurts to see someone
43:18
Speaker 2: you care about struggling. Now, that just doesn't excuse them
43:22
Speaker 2: from supporting you. But I'm just saying it's unhelpful at
43:27
Speaker 2: that point to be like, no, you must understand, you
43:30
Speaker 2: get help from wherever you're getting help from, and then
43:32
Speaker 2: you fight this. No, you must understand fight when you
43:35
Speaker 2: have more time and energy and emotional bandwidth to have
43:39
Speaker 2: that conversation right now, you take care of you first.
43:45
Speaker 2: Happy to share some helplines and numbers and like resources
43:53
Speaker 2: if you're in Bombay. Agatsu is completely free of cost.
43:57
Speaker 2: It's open Wednesday to Sunday. We have lots of people
44:00
Speaker 2: who come who want to make friends and chat and
44:03
Speaker 2: stuff like that. We have activities where you can learn
44:05
Speaker 2: to do yoga and art and dance and all sorts
44:09
Speaker 2: of things. All of it is free. You don't have
44:13
Speaker 2: to pay any money to come to Earth. Just walk in.
44:15
Speaker 2: You can just walk in, just walk in. I mean,
44:18
Speaker 2: we're on Instagram and to register you just have to
44:22
Speaker 2: send us a text saying hi, I want to come
44:24
Speaker 2: for this. But even if you don't do that, you
44:26
Speaker 2: can walk in at any point that you want. We
44:28
Speaker 2: have a library, es cafe, coffee, so coffee snobs take
44:33
Speaker 2: your snobbiness somewhere else. But we have tea, coffee, WiFi,
44:36
Speaker 2: we have a cat. So yeah, it's a space where
44:40
Speaker 2: you can just come and be. Everyone is very supportive
44:43
Speaker 2: because people who come sometimes didn't get support from elsewhere,
44:47
Speaker 2: so when they come and they get support, and they're
44:49
Speaker 2: also always happy to support the other people. So we
44:52
Speaker 2: realized that it's a really very sweet community of people
44:56
Speaker 2: who've come together, and like we have open mic once
44:58
Speaker 2: a month and everyone is cheering you on, no matter
45:02
Speaker 2: how badly you are singing. And there was this guy
45:06
Speaker 2: who came and he did a stand up piece about
45:11
Speaker 2: stuttering and he didn't stutter even once, and I was like, yeah,
45:16
Speaker 2: so we're all very supportive in that sense. We also
45:18
Speaker 2: have a therapy clinic and that we charge for it's
45:21
Speaker 2: from fifty rupees to seven fifty rupees whatever you can afford,
45:24
Speaker 2: so it's subsidized therapy. And we have peer supports, which
45:28
Speaker 2: means that there will be people in the room who
45:30
Speaker 2: have been through a similar experience as you. Nobody will
45:33
Speaker 2: give you any advice, but y'all can vent and talk
45:36
Speaker 2: and learn from each other's experiences, and it's facilitated by
45:40
Speaker 2: someone who has been through that experience themselves. So that's
45:45
Speaker 2: what a peer support is. We have one for grief,
45:48
Speaker 2: new moms, psychologists, youth, LGBTQI, plus psychologists that said that
45:55
Speaker 2: already depression the lots to check the Instagram, but yeah,
46:00
Speaker 2: we do different things. We are studing for senior citizens.
46:03
Speaker 2: Uh would love for you to come and talk about
46:06
Speaker 2: sex Lisa anytime. But yeah, So if you're in Bombay,
46:11
Speaker 2: you can come to Agatsu and then you know, look
46:13
Speaker 2: around you. There are actually a bunch of things going on. Unfortunately,
46:17
Speaker 2: there's a lot of clutter on the internet, so it's
46:18
Speaker 2: difficult to find them, but they're there. Agatsu's trying to
46:22
Speaker 2: create a repository of resources and information and please everybody
46:29
Speaker 2: share it because it's meant to reach people. Yeah, is
46:33
Speaker 2: that helpful? Super helpful? Okay, and think care of yourself
46:37
Speaker 2: because for the for the parents and the partners who
46:39
Speaker 2: want to help, you have to be well yourself. So
46:43
Speaker 2: emotional hygiene. Yes, tell them where they can follow you.
46:48
Speaker 2: Is it at Agatsu Instagram, at Agatsu Foundation dot org.
46:52
Speaker 2: It's a Japanese word. It is It's a Japanese word
46:55
Speaker 2: that means self victory. So aikido is a martial art
46:58
Speaker 2: and it has a principle that says Massacatsu Agatsu true
47:02
Speaker 2: victory is self victory came up with the name. You
47:06
Speaker 2: can see that he's been a very useful part of
47:08
Speaker 2: my life. But yeah, you can follow Agatsu. If you
47:13
Speaker 2: get lost, then go to my Instagram and it's on
47:16
Speaker 2: my bio. True victory is self victory. I love that.
47:19
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Ara. It's been such a privileged
47:22
Speaker 1: listening to you. I've learned so much today and I
47:25
Speaker 1: hope that you felt the same way. I hope that
47:27
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed this, you'll also share it with anyone
47:30
Speaker 1: that you think would benefit from listening. This is Love Matters,
47:33
Speaker 1: produced by the Indian Express and DW, Germany's international broadcaster,
47:37
Speaker 1: and as always, we would love.
47:38
Speaker 2: To hear from you.
47:40
Speaker 1: If you have a relationship topic you'd like us to cover,
47:43
Speaker 1: or feedback or insights or really anything that is inspired,
47:48
Speaker 1: do write to us at Lovematters at DW dot com.
47:52
Speaker 1: As I promised at the top, I am going to
47:54
Speaker 1: be reading some comments.
47:56
Speaker 2: So here is.
47:59
Speaker 1: Jacob Lighton two ninety five four, who said on the
48:02
Speaker 1: episode about consent with Barmita Vora, this video is so powerful.
48:07
Speaker 1: I especially enjoyed listening to a woman who understands the
48:10
Speaker 1: pleasure is not a bad thing for us as humans,
48:12
Speaker 1: but we have trained ourselves to think otherwise. Consent really
48:16
Speaker 1: is an active and nuanced situation. Consent was something me
48:20
Speaker 1: and a previous partner discussed. Because it was so nuanced,
48:23
Speaker 1: we came to a healthy conclusion that we would use
48:25
Speaker 1: nonverbal cues to help us navigate consent and the journey
48:28
Speaker 1: of being with each other. Some things might require a
48:31
Speaker 1: verbal ask, some things did not. It made our connection
48:34
Speaker 1: much more enjoyable. The discussion of shame being a catalyst
48:37
Speaker 1: for dehumanizing pleasure and desire, I observed as well. I
48:41
Speaker 1: really enjoyed her perspective so stimulating intellectually. We love hearing
48:46
Speaker 1: from you, So louleave a comment wherever you're tuning in
48:50
Speaker 1: till next time. This is Mi Liisamangoda signing off. I
48:54
Speaker 1: believe love matters.