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eCommerce Specialist: The Cafeteria Conspiracy · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are you excited about this episode of Roast the Post?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so looking forward to it.
• 0:09
  I kind of get to sit back and relax for this one because you're
• 0:13
  presenting the post,
• 0:14
  right?
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This one is mine.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And for the folks who are watching and listening at home,
• 0:22
  Jen and I kind of flip every week and one of us brings a post
• 0:25
  to the other one and
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: we don't get to see it ahead of time.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a fun game that we play to try and mess with each other.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see how it turns out.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: So this week's post, let's start with the basics.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: This job posting is for an e-commerce specialist.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know who the supervisor is or what their job title is,
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: so the reporting structure for this is a little bit vague.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a permanent job,
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: full-time,
• 0:56
  and it's for a company that has a branch office in Mississauga
• 1:00
  in the GTA near
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Toronto.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: And their head office,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: they're part of a global consortium,
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: is actually in Xinjiang,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: China,
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: which is up on the eastern shore of the country.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: The industry is consumer electronics and appliances,
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: like fridges,
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: washing machines,
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: all that stuff.
• 1:20
  and it's kind of interesting that this company is headquartered
• 1:24
  in xingdao that's
• 1:26
  um that's not typically where you have consumer electronics
• 1:29
  companies in china
• 1:30
  domiciled a lot of consumer electronics companies in china they
• 1:34
  tend to be located
• 1:36
  around the shenzhen area at least the newer ones anyway that's
• 1:39
  what i found in that
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: kind of decade that
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I had suppliers in China and was kind of working with them.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I found that particularly interesting.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: As I was reading about this company,
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: it turned out that they are kind of OG electronics manufacturing.
• 1:55
  They were founded long before the current wave and the Shenzhen
• 2:00
  Economic Zone was
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: even Special Economic Zone.
• 2:03
  was even kind of like set up uh so this company predates all of
• 2:08
  that stuff they're
• 2:09
  a little bit like rca making tvs back in like the 60s or
• 2:13
  whatever it's got that
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: kind of vibe to it so i i thought that was kind of cool uh
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: They operate globally.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're multinational.
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  And what they tend to do is they tend to put branch offices in
• 2:24
  market in regions
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: where they're selling into,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: which for big companies,
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: group companies,
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: it's pretty common.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
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  you open up a head office for North America and a lot of
• 2:33
  companies that don't want
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: to do that in the U.S.,
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: like they tend to set them up in Canada.
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  There's a ton of those type of companies in Mississauga for
• 2:40
  whatever reason.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
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  do you know whether or not they have other like you mentioned
• 2:49
  that they set up in
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: other areas,
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: Toronto is just just one of many?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Toronto is the North American kind of head office, if you will.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's also an office in the US.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's an office somewhere in Europe for these folks.
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  There's an office in South America and they have a sales office
• 3:11
  in Australia.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: So they're kind of all over the place.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, very cool.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: But this role specifically is for Ontario.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: This role looks to be a supporting role for the North American operation
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: specializing in e-commerce,
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: which is kind of interesting.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, let's let's take that in stride.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to roast this post?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ready to roast this post.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: So full job description.
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  SPEAKER_00: Established in 2012,
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: the company,
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  and we're not going to name them because neither of us have
• 3:48
  lawyers and whatnot.
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  The company's product strategy is to steadily introduce a full
• 3:53
  range of electronics
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  SPEAKER_00: and appliances into the Canadian market and,
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  SPEAKER_00: you know,
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  SPEAKER_00: branch office,
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  SPEAKER_00: right?
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  SPEAKER_00: This includes a complete line of consumer electronics,
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  SPEAKER_00: home appliances,
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  SPEAKER_00: and home comfort products at the company.
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  SPEAKER_00: We take pride in our staff.
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  SPEAKER_00: They are the backbone of all that we do.
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  SPEAKER_00: And as we grow,
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  we're looking for talented additions to our team for our
• 4:16
  continuously growing
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: business.
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  We're currently looking for a e-commerce specialist to be based
• 4:22
  in our Mississauga office.
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  SPEAKER_00: He responsibilities.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Product page setup and optimization.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oversee the setup and continuous optimization of product detail pages.
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  Ensure alignment with global online assets while tailoring
• 4:38
  content to local
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  SPEAKER_00: campaigns,
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: seasonal promotions,
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: and market needs.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Advertising operations and performance management.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: And this is all bullet points.
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  SPEAKER_00: Plan and prepare advertising operations to drive traffic and conversion.
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  develop and maintain online marketing campaigns to support
• 4:58
  brand and sales
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  SPEAKER_00: objectives,
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  monitor and analyze key performance metrics to evaluate
• 5:04
  campaign effectiveness and
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: refine strategies.
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  SPEAKER_00: Then under e-commerce sales growth and target achievement,
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  Collaborate with account teams to drive the e-commerce sellout
• 5:17
  and achieve sales
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  SPEAKER_00: targets of selected retail partners.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Develop and execute strategies to maximize e-commerce sales performance.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And let's pause there.
• 5:26
  There's a couple more sections before we get into the rest,
• 5:30
  but what did you think about that?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's interesting.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going into that.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: place in my mind of like okay you look at the title specialist e-commerce
• 5:46
  specialist but then there's a lot of oversee plan develop um
• 5:53
  but then there's
• 5:54
  there's language which to me it means a lot of ownership but
• 5:56
  then there's also
• 5:57
  language that's like maintain and prepare um so that feels a
• 6:03
  little bit more
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  SPEAKER_02: aligned with the title um i'm a little bit concerned now it sounds like
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be quite a big role.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: So right now,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: my first thoughts are,
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very curious to see if the title is aligned properly with the role
• 6:20
  responsibilities and whatever kind of like leverage and
• 6:24
  autonomy they're going to
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: have to be able to like
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: see these things through.
• 6:29
  I'm also a little bit,
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  I never like it when it doesn't list the reporting structure.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: To me, I don't understand why.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Again, like note to the job seeker seekers out there,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: If you know the reporting structure,
• 6:43
  please put the reporting structure because it helps the
• 6:46
  candidates to kind of like
• 6:47
  connect the dots and really understand the structure of the
• 6:50
  organization and the
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: kind of supports that they're going to have.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: So those are my initial thoughts.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: What about you?
• 6:57
  it's uh it's it's interesting because a job like this in a lot
• 7:01
  of organizations
• 7:02
  would be titled manager like e-commerce manager or paid
• 7:06
  marketing manager comic
• 7:08
  e-commerce stuff like that um because you're you're right it is
• 7:12
  a very like
• 7:13
  wide-ranging job so this company they've chosen to title it
• 7:17
  specialist which in my
• 7:19
  mind um simply says like okay maybe there's not going to be
• 7:22
  like people reporting
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  SPEAKER_00: to you um you've got ownership of a functional area but
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: You have no people reports.
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  You don't have to worry about leadership and development and
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  all that kind of stuff.
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  SPEAKER_00: It was an interesting choice.
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  SPEAKER_00: This is also, it is going to be a big job.
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  this because they say in the posting that you're going to be
• 7:48
  partly responsible for
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  helping to hit the sales targets of retail partners so really
• 7:53
  what that means is
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  that like you're working for the brand but selling stuff
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  through retail channels
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  SPEAKER_00: and that could be
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: It could be like a Best Buy type thing where it's a national retailer.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: It could be regional chains.
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  SPEAKER_00: It could be a whole bunch of different stuff.
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  SPEAKER_00: And maybe those brands,
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  those retailers will have supporting assets in their
• 8:20
  organization to kind of help.
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  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they won't.
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  So it's kind of interesting how that unfolds,
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  especially in consumer electronics.
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  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the time,
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  the brand is really just kind of the manufacturer brand is
• 8:33
  really just kind of
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  SPEAKER_00: making use of what the retailer offers.
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  SPEAKER_00: So it's like the retailer will turn around and say,
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  SPEAKER_00: we can put you in this great holiday marketing campaign,
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  SPEAKER_00: $45,000,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: please.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you do all the work.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
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  SPEAKER_00: It's a really interesting phenomenon.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I suspect that this person is going to be doing a lot of that.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned something too,
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: like if there's a certain responsibility for sales for numbers,
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  SPEAKER_02: I'll be curious when we get to compensation,
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  whether or not there's like bonus or commission or any type of
• 9:08
  like variable
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: compensation that's mentioned.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess we shall see.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we shall see.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, let's move on.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, uh, under, we're still in kind of key responsibilities.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh,
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: the next section is sales diagnostics and reporting all in bullet points,
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: conduct performance diagnostics to assess e-commerce sellout performance,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: generate actionable reports to identify gaps,
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: highlight opportunities and recommend data-driven improvement.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Next section is budget allocation and management.
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  SPEAKER_00: Bullet points.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Allocate and manage budgets across e-commerce marketing initiatives.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Track spending efficiency to maximize return on investment.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Next section is pre-sales and post-sales optimization.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then in bullet points,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: we've got develop initiatives to strengthen customer engagement,
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: both before and after purchase and implement customer review programs,
• 10:10
  competitor benchmarking and insights driven solutions to
• 10:14
  enhance future performance
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: and customer satisfaction.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's break there before we move on.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: That's where, to me, the job gets really intense.
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  That's where I'm really curious about the reporting structure
• 10:29
  because this person
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: is responsible for budget allocation and management.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that they have the authority for that.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that it's not just on paper, but then in practice.
• 10:43
  they don't really get to do that because again like you said
• 10:47
  specialist versus
• 10:48
  manager type role that's weird i know we we often tend to
• 10:52
  assign like manager roles
• 10:53
  to to people who are managing teams but there's also manager
• 10:58
  roles for people who
• 10:59
  are managing things managing aspects um so not just specific to
• 11:04
  people um yeah
• 11:06
  report running reports with recommendations diagnostics again
• 11:10
  like depending on
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: where they're sitting in the organization
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Are they then giving that to a manager who is then presenting it to like,
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: what is that kind of chain of chain of command and chain of authority?
• 11:22
  That would be really interesting to me because as a,
• 11:24
  I guess this is an individual contributor.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is a specialist role.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Are they just, yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: Who are they handing that information off to and what,
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: what levers do they have to be like,
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: here are my recommendations.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then are people, does the team just run with it?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really curious as to what that looks like.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: and this is where that reporting structure would be really useful,
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: particularly because I've seen this done a bunch of different ways,
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: like in smaller organizations,
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: smaller manufacturing organizations.
• 12:01
  often it's one person who kind of is doing the analysis
• 12:05
  reporting allocation prep
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: work and then like pulling the trigger.
• 12:09
  So they'll get kind of redefined criteria ahead of time and be
• 12:13
  told like,
• 12:14
  go do it.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Other times.
• 12:17
  Other times they're attached to a marketing group and they'll
• 12:21
  do all of the prep work.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: They'll bring everything in for,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:25
  a sync or some sort of some sort of kind of like review process
• 12:29
  where it's like,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: hey,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: this is what I think.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is what we should allocate the budget,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: A,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: B and C.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: This is how I think the creative should go.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: D, E and F. Just look at everybody.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: OK, let's go.
• 12:40
  Other times it's like this ridiculous vertical reporting and
• 12:44
  approvals chain,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: especially you find this a lot of time when there's an agency involved,
• 12:50
  where things have to be kind of like tucked upwards and three
• 12:53
  people have to say
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: yes before you can do anything.
• 12:55
  That's typically how it unfolds with like bigger organizations
• 12:59
  where the money
• 13:00
  involved is higher and the risk is higher if there's regulatory
• 13:03
  or compliance stuff
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: kind of in the mix.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting here that it's a bit of a question mark.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: on which of those is.
• 13:11
  I would guess just based on the size of the company that the
• 13:15
  advertising budget
• 13:16
  attached to this role that they're going to be overseeing is
• 13:19
  like seven figures.
• 13:21
  I would guess that they're spending a million bucks plus in
• 13:25
  digital advertising to
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: support this program.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got your retail placements too.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So again, is it just the one person?
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked about this before.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Is this is this one person?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Are they part of a team of others?
• 13:43
  Are they and maybe it mentions that they you did mention
• 13:46
  something about like
• 13:47
  taking the global concept and like localizing it a little bit
• 13:51
  more for the region
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: in which they're operating.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
• 13:55
  it would be interesting to know if they're doing it on their
• 13:57
  own or if there are
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: others involved.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: Did you did you happen to say what the employee count is?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember what you said.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: I did not.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: The employee count is over 80,000 globally.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I would assume for the North American market,
• 14:15
  because there isn't a lot of production activity that would be
• 14:17
  happening here,
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would assume you're probably looking at maybe 500 people,
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: US and Canada combined sort of thing.
• 14:24
  The majority of that headcount is going to be in production and
• 14:30
  merchandising in Asia.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: So like then you split the rest up around the globe.
• 14:35
  So I don't think it's like a huge organization here,
• 14:38
  but I could be wrong.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's not huge, but it's not tiny.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_02: So again,
• 14:41
  this tells me that I would be really surprised if this role has
• 14:45
  the authority to
• 14:47
  make some of like to make some of the decisions that they're
• 14:50
  being tasked with.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: I would be really surprised.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that's
• 14:54
  that's interesting that might be a point of frustration for
• 14:57
  this individual um like
• 14:58
  you talked about how far up the chain do things have to go
• 15:02
  before they hear
• 15:03
  anything back how how quickly can they feel like they are
• 15:07
  adding value that their
• 15:09
  recommendations are being implemented and that they're seeing
• 15:11
  the outcomes of those
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: recommendations that i would question that for sure
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's move on to the next section.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of where it gets a little bit interesting.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Qualifications.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Bachelor's degree in business, e-commerce, marketing or a related field.
• 15:29
  Minimum of three years of experience in e-commerce sales and
• 15:32
  marketing or online marketing.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Strong written verbal communication and presentation skills.
• 15:39
  Solid understanding of advertising principles,
• 15:42
  campaign management and best practices.
• 15:45
  Hands on experience with product content management and online
• 15:48
  product page optimization.
• 15:51
  Proficient in Microsoft Office Suite,
• 15:54
  Outlook,
• 15:55
  Word,
• 15:55
  Excel and PowerPoint are friends.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Your favorite.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ability to prioritize tasks,
• 16:04
  manage multiple projects and meet deadlines and experience in
• 16:08
  the consumer
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: electronics industry is a plus.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: What did you think about that?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: I would,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: right off the bat,
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that experience within that industry,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: I don't see that as a plus.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I almost see it as a requirement, if I'm being honest.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think that in order to be successful in this role,
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: they're going to have to really understand that specific area.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, such a small thing, but a plus, sure.
• 16:36
  I don't think that they would actually struggle to find someone
• 16:38
  who has that experience.
• 16:40
  So I would almost put it as not a plus,
• 16:45
  but like as a requirement,
• 16:46
  as a mandatory requirement.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: You made a face, so I wanna know what you think.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So you're absolutely right.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: You would think that that should be a mandatory requirement.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you would want it to be.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: But
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: There are very few consumer electronics brands in Canada.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not a big industry.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like it's so tiny.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: when I was working in that industry,
• 17:14
  I would run into people at networking events that worked in the
• 17:18
  same industry and
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: just a different sector.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like never.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like never, ever, ever, ever, ever.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was just like, it was teeny, teeny tiny.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that that's a constraint that they're working with.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they would want to say,
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: you need to have consumer electronics experience and,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: be located in the GTA.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: But there's 20 people maybe.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:47
  yeah and you know and you're right and then and then we say i
• 17:50
  think i think you
• 17:51
  said it was an in-person i can't remember actually if you said
• 17:54
  it was an in-person
• 17:55
  role or not but then that just like narrows narrows the scope a
• 17:59
  little bit as well
• 18:00
  so it's true well yeah it would be the dream i guess to find
• 18:03
  someone with that
• 18:04
  experience i think they're they're doing the right thing by
• 18:07
  being like it's okay if
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: you don't have it but it would be nice if you did
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it is.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: It is an in person role.
• 18:14
  We hadn't gotten to that part yet,
• 18:15
  but they do want them in the office five days a week.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: So so yeah,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: like it,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: like you said,
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: it becomes much more challenging to then find someone that's that's very,
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: very specific that they're looking for.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I understand that the rest of the requirements.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, nothing stood out to me.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't this isn't my area of expertise.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: So curious to see if there was anything else for you that seemed iffy.
• 18:41
  was kind of normal it was kind of these these requirements like
• 18:44
  there's there there there is
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: This person is going to be busy.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that feels like a recurring theme.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever we talk,
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: whenever we go through these job posts,
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: that's a lot for one person,
• 19:00
  which I think suggests that there's some stuff going on in the
• 19:03
  labor market is
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: making this kind of compression a little bit more normal.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: But this this person is going to be busy, like not only are they
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: doing reporting analysis for their online marketing efforts,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: creating recommendations,
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: whatever else.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're also doing the media buys.
• 19:26
  I would assume that they have somebody preparing creative for
• 19:28
  them or there's an
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: agency doing that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: So like that's probably not quite that's not going to overwhelm them.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: But then you've also got in here
• 19:41
  hands-on experience with product content management and online
• 19:44
  product page optimization.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: And this is nitpicky.
• 19:49
  Product content management in the context of managing campaigns
• 19:57
  through a retail
• 19:58
  partners kind of environment means that you're actually
• 20:01
  optimizing the content on
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: that retailer's website.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: for your product pages.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like that.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And depending on how many SKUs you have going into the retailers,
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: that can be a full time job on its own.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like there are tools and automation and stuff that kind of helps.
• 20:17
  But if it's being done through an advertising context,
• 20:20
  a marketing context,
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're not just ensuring accuracy and reliability of the information.
• 20:25
  You're going in there and saying,
• 20:26
  hey,
• 20:26
  what if I change this headline title?
• 20:28
  Will it show up in search on the retailer's e-commerce site
• 20:31
  more frequently and
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: will I get more sales?
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're doing stuff like that all the time.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is a big job.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a big job.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: And this is interesting because I know that,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: organizational structures can shift depending on so many factors,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: but it would be so nice to see job posting list what supports you have.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: Again, like what does that team breakdown look like?
• 20:54
  I think it would be so cool just to see here's a snapshot of
• 20:57
  what this team looks
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: like because this role could have
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: support people in place.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: There could be, you know, maybe they're interns or co-op students.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe there's an administrator who helps support some of these things.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe the report,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: they create the content,
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: but then somebody is finalizing that report,
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: judging it up for a presentation or whatever.
• 21:18
  Because again,
• 21:18
  they do mention that they have to have presentation skills as
• 21:21
  well.
• 21:22
  um so it would be really nice to know what that actual
• 21:26
  structure looks like because
• 21:28
  it could be it sounds like a pretty interesting role to be
• 21:31
  honest um it's a lot of
• 21:33
  work but if you have supports in place then it might be a
• 21:36
  really sweet gig for
• 21:37
  someone um but if you're doing it all on your own then that's
• 21:40
  when it becomes
• 21:42
  a lot of work and so it's hard for people to make proper
• 21:44
  informed decisions uh when
• 21:47
  they don't have all the information again you can you can throw
• 21:50
  your hat in the
• 21:51
  ring and maybe ask questions during screening those are good
• 21:54
  questions to be asking
• 21:55
  during the interview process absolutely finding out what kind
• 21:58
  of supports are in
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: place how how you're being set up to succeed in the role
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:04
  And this this would definitely be the kind of job where you
• 22:08
  would you would never
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: be bored and you would be learning.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: You'd be learning a lot.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: You'd be learning so much, but you'd probably burn out.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's move on to the last section.
• 22:25
  So it says the company is an equal employment opportunity
• 22:30
  employer and has an
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: accommodation process in place.
• 22:35
  If you require a specific accommodation because of disability
• 22:39
  or medical need,
• 22:40
  please let us know when selected to take part in our
• 22:43
  recruitment process so that
• 22:44
  reasonable arrangements can be made for the appropriate
• 22:47
  accommodations to be in
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: place as you move through our process.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: We thank you for your interest in joining the company.
• 22:55
  Please note that only candidates selected for an interview will
• 22:58
  be contacted.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Then they list off some fringe benefits,
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: casual dress,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: company events,
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: dental care,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: disability insurance,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: discounted or free food,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: employee assistance program,
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: extended health care,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: life insurance,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: on site parking,
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: paid time off,
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: RRSP match,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: tuition reimbursement,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: vision care wellness program.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, they ask ability to commute or relocate.
• 23:26
  So Mississauga,
• 23:27
  you've got to reliably commute or plan to relocate before
• 23:30
  starting work.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is a hard requirement.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are some, uh, or there's one application question.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: What is your salary expectation?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no, they lost me on that one.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: They lost me on that one.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: So, OK, so before we get to that, I do like an accommodation.
• 23:53
  I don't there's something about the way it was worded that I
• 23:55
  didn't care for
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: something about like disability or health.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: need.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember what you said.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Can you mind repeating just that?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:07
  If you require a specific accommodation because of disability
• 24:11
  or medical need,
• 24:12
  please let us know when selected to take part in our
• 24:14
  recruitment process so that we
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: can make arrangements.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like they could have just said,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: if you require an accommodation,
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: like,
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: there's something there's something about like that,
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: that specific wording that just doesn't sit right to me.
• 24:27
  There are all sorts of reasons why someone might require an
• 24:31
  accommodation.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you're going to list two of them, list them all.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know, it just feels really specific to those two reasons.
• 24:39
  And so that I didn't quite like,
• 24:42
  but I love an accommodation statement for sure.
• 24:45
  You know,
• 24:47
  let's pause on that for a second because you bring up an
• 24:49
  interesting point.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel,
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: and I'm probably overthinking this,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: especially if the person who wrote this job posting,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: watches the episode and says,
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: that's not what I meant.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 25:03
  But listing out two of those things that they will give you an
• 25:08
  accommodation for
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: feels a bit invasive.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because the subtext is that you're kind of saying,
• 25:15
  we'll give you an accommodation if you have a disability or a
• 25:18
  medical thing that
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: means you need an accommodation.
• 25:22
  So you have to tell us what those are because we need to be
• 25:25
  able to accommodate you.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like if it feels like that,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: even if they're not saying it and benefit of the doubt,
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't think that this company is,
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: doing that.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's just poorly written in my opinion.
• 25:37
  Okay,
• 25:37
  I think I think you're naming what it is that makes me
• 25:39
  uncomfortable with it.
• 25:40
  I think that they must have seen it somewhere else and just
• 25:43
  copy and pasted it.
• 25:45
  But it does feel a little bit like they're trying to catch
• 25:47
  someone out on something.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think at some point,
• 25:50
  we need to talk a little bit more about whether or not it's
• 25:53
  safe for people to ask
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: for an accommodation in the workplace,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: because it's one thing or in the interview process,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: because it's one thing for a company to
• 26:04
  say that they accommodate but it's a whole other thing to put
• 26:07
  yourself out there
• 26:08
  and what does that mean and does that reduce your chances of
• 26:13
  getting screened into
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: the role so I think that that's a whole other conversation
• 26:18
  um that we can go into and maybe an a special edition episode
• 26:23
  of roast the post um
• 26:25
  but so i think we've we've said enough on that um discounted or
• 26:30
  free food i mean is
• 26:32
  it a choice because i'll take the free food versus the
• 26:35
  discounted and like do they
• 26:38
  mean we have snacks in the office do they mean that you get
• 26:43
  like like my partner
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: works for a company where
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what a float card is?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like a preloaded corporate credit card?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, is it like a meal plan sort of thing?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like what we had in units?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like a corporate card,
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: but it's preloaded so that you basically get approved funds on your card.
• 27:03
  But their organization,
• 27:05
  every employee has a $500 allocation every month for lunches.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So they never have to pay for lunch.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like,
• 27:13
  use your $500 right like it's it's pretty cool that's free free
• 27:18
  food for lunches
• 27:19
  but this is interesting to me discount like do they have a deal
• 27:23
  with someone um I
• 27:25
  find that really interesting like I want to know so much more
• 27:28
  about because again
• 27:29
  if you're gonna put it on the job hosting then it tell it it
• 27:33
  means that there's a
• 27:34
  story to it there's more to know and discounted or free food is
• 27:39
  such a bizarre
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: thing to me
• 27:42
  to put um again probably overthinking it i think we're both
• 27:45
  really good at
• 27:46
  overthinking it um overthinking things but that was just
• 27:50
  something that stood out
• 27:51
  to me it's bizarre it's odd i love it i want to know more i
• 27:54
  want the free option
• 27:55
  not the discounted option um well especially especially because
• 27:59
  it's consumer
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: electronics right like you if if if you were working for um
• 28:04
  I don't know,
• 28:05
  like Maple Leaf Foods or something,
• 28:06
  and they said,
• 28:07
  discounted your free food.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be like, oh yeah, the food is made right there in the factory.
• 28:11
  And of course there's a cafeteria because it's shift work with
• 28:14
  2,500 people.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they've got a calf.
• 28:18
  But a consumer electronics company,
• 28:19
  you don't really expect that to be a thing.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I'm saying.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: I can't connect the dots.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: I can't connect the dots to that.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm fascinated.
• 28:28
  I wonder if there's a cafeteria that's shared amongst all of
• 28:35
  the tenants in the
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: office campus that they have.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there's a subsidy program or something like that.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you're right, it's a little bit big.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: It should be kind of described a little bit more.
• 28:48
  Even another three or four words being like,
• 28:51
  we subsidize your cafeteria purchases or whatever.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Just give us a little bit more.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: Funny story, funny story.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: One of the suppliers that I worked with in China,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: they had a manufacturing facility in Guangdong,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: just kind of like outside of Shenzhen,
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_00: north of it.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a little bit remote.
• 29:13
  And so they had this they had this whole thing where because it
• 29:16
  was kind of rural
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: and shift working,
• 29:19
  manufacturing shift working in China is very like it's up and
• 29:22
  down and all over the
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: place.
• 29:23
  It's not it's not like there's like you're a permanent employee
• 29:26
  with a full time salary forever.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like you typically go in and you work like stretches.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: These and these guys, I love them so much.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like the owner, amazing guy.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: they built dormitories for the workers,
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: which was kind of a necessity because it's like way out there.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: So they had these dorms,
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: but they also had food preparation facilities,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: meal facilities,
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: and over time as they grew and got more successful,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: and have more resources to kind of pump back into their facility.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: They actually started a gardening program.
• 30:03
  So there were people on site who were like gardening and you
• 30:05
  would kind of like
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: work in the garden if you wanted to.
• 30:08
  They'd hire people in to kind of manage the garden,
• 30:10
  you know,
• 30:11
  if you didn't want to.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And there was like fresh food,
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: including like chicken,
• 30:16
  because they had like a flock of chickens that were just
• 30:18
  running around the yard in
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: this factory.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was cool.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's so cool.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And amazing.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they cared a lot about the workers,
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: even though they were just,
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: kind of temporary short term shift workers,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: like they really put a lot into meeting their needs,
• 30:34
  which is not the story that we normally associated with
• 30:36
  manufacturing in China.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: So like, there's stuff that's different all over the place.
• 30:43
  Well,
• 30:45
  no,
• 30:45
  it's interesting,
• 30:45
  because like,
• 30:46
  you you're bringing up a really important point.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of food insecurity.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: And having a perk like free food,
• 30:56
  and if we just had a little bit more information and understood
• 30:58
  what that meant,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: that can make a huge difference in people's lives,
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: a really big difference.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: It is, we're going through some times.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: organizations who can provide free lunches or whatever,
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: whatever this free food is or discounted food,
• 31:19
  uh that can make a huge difference in people's lives so I think
• 31:22
  that again if you
• 31:23
  if you've got it post it explain a little bit more um but that
• 31:29
  could be really
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: impactful so I again like super curious super curious about that one um
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Parking is good for people to know as well.
• 31:38
  Like for any company posting out there,
• 31:41
  if you do have free parking,
• 31:43
  list it.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked about this tons of times already.
• 31:47
  Any perks that you have,
• 31:49
  you should be listing them because they're differentiators for
• 31:51
  people.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody might be like,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: I live a bit far out from there,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: like parking that's going to kill me in that commute,
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: gas,
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: money,
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: whatever it is.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Free parking, great.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: List that.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: RSP matching.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Phenomenal, love to see it.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Tuition reimbursement stuck out to me as well.
• 32:11
  Love to see that,
• 32:12
  would like a little bit more information,
• 32:14
  wondering if that is
• 32:17
  Because they they distinctively say tuition reimbursement
• 32:20
  they're not saying
• 32:21
  professional development budget or professional prote allowance
• 32:24
  or anything like
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: that.
• 32:25
  Those to me there's a reason they're saying tuition
• 32:28
  reimbursement and I want to
• 32:29
  know what that reason is I want to know what that means because
• 32:32
  it sounds great,
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: but tell me more.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 32:36
  you can you can kind of that that tells a story to me a little
• 32:39
  bit and that stuck
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: out for me as well.
• 32:41
  That tells a story a little bit about how they want to bring in
• 32:46
  young people and
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: they want to kind of support these young people and be like,
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: work through the summer for us and work here in your co-op here.
• 32:55
  Work here kind of like flex to full time after you graduate and
• 32:58
  we'll help you out
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: with your tuition.
• 33:00
  That's a pretty serious perk because not a lot of companies
• 33:03
  will do stuff like that.
• 33:05
  To your point,
• 33:07
  it's much more common to say,
• 33:08
  yeah,
• 33:09
  we'll help with professional development.
• 33:10
  We'll give you a budget or we'll reimburse up to 80% or
• 33:14
  something like that.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's more common.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Tuition reimbursement, that stands out.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that that's great.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm also curious because it's a global company and you mentioned,
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Australia as well as China,
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: Canada.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to know and get a snapshot,
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: not that they should be posting,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: adding this to their job posting,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: but just out of my own curiosity,
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: what the different perks are in different locations,
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: because sometimes it is really like geographically specific.
• 33:42
  It might mean more to someone in one location than it does to
• 33:46
  another,
• 33:46
  but I would love to know.
• 33:48
  again discounted free food is that for all of the offices is
• 33:52
  that specific to this
• 33:53
  location because like you said they work in a place that has a
• 33:56
  cafeteria um would
• 33:58
  be really interesting to know what across across the globe what
• 34:03
  the different perks
• 34:05
  look like and sometimes you can suss that out you go on the
• 34:07
  website and they have
• 34:08
  the careers page or whatever some huge companies and this
• 34:11
  sounds like this is a
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: really big one um just totally global
• 34:16
  they'll have you know a drop down menu for like the USA or for
• 34:20
  Canada or whatever
• 34:22
  and so all of a sudden you click on that and it's like you're
• 34:25
  in a completely
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: different environment a completely different website they're marketing to
• 34:30
  completely different people uh so I would like to know globally
• 34:33
  what some of the
• 34:34
  common thread perks are versus what is kind of like location
• 34:38
  specific but that's
• 34:39
  just again my own curiosity and my enjoyment that I get from
• 34:43
  nerding out about this
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: type of thing
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we've talked about the perks,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: the fringe benefits here,
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: like there's some interesting stuff.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe it's a little bit of a missed opportunity to not,
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: sell this a little bit more because there is some great stuff in there.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: But counterpoint,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: You'll post a big salary.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they specifically said, what are your salary expectations?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, a few years ago, super common practice.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Every employer would ask that.
• 35:14
  You'd see that on every job posting or it would come up in the
• 35:17
  screening call,
• 35:18
  right?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: The first time around.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: But things are different now.
• 35:22
  you go and then i've definitely got stuff to say i hate it like
• 35:28
  i hate it so much
• 35:30
  because again we've talked about this before but job postings
• 35:34
  are such a good
• 35:36
  indicator of kind of what the culture is going to be like at
• 35:39
  the organization i
• 35:40
  think when we talk about lost opportunities which we do on
• 35:42
  every single episode and
• 35:44
  you mentioned it like showcasing the culture showcasing what it
• 35:47
  is about this
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: organization that makes it different because
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: I maybe for some people like working in this kind of like,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know,
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: electronics,
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: whatever it is,
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: floats their boat and they're like super psyched about it.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I need to know a little bit more about the organization.
• 36:04
  And so right off the bat,
• 36:06
  like to me that there's trust and it's one sided.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't like that.
• 36:11
  There's respect and it's one sided to ask someone what their
• 36:15
  salary expectations
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: are for the role is
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's like super mean.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's unfair.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's mean.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: This person has what to refer to their,
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: their previous salaries,
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: which is usually what we do,
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like you think how much would I like to earn in this new role?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: You think about what you're currently earning or have previously earned.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's kind of what you're basing it on.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I just don't think it's fair.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_02: I think that companies need to step up.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: They need to start being more transparent about the salaries and, um,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Again,
• 36:49
  this is an opportunity for them to price it really low if
• 36:52
  they're going to get
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: several applicants who may be like fit the bill could do the job.
• 36:58
  resumes are all pretty much the same for they're going to pick
• 37:05
  right like.
• 37:07
  Are they sure you an argument could be said that they're going
• 37:10
  to pick the one who
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: price themselves really high,
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: but if the experience is comparable.
• 37:15
  If they have an interview process where it's really hard to
• 37:17
  kind of like see beyond
• 37:20
  those typical behavioral questions or anything and nobody's
• 37:23
  really standing out.
• 37:24
  You've got three final candidates,
• 37:26
  all with the same background experience ish.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_02: They're going to go with whoever's cheapest.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I just don't I just don't like it.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: So list a salary band, please.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: From my perspective on that,
• 37:44
  I kind of agree like it's it's just you've got to put a salary
• 37:49
  range on your job
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: posting like you.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: You've told me before that it's law in a lot of places.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's a requirement.
• 37:57
  But the part that kind of just sticks me a little bit about
• 38:03
  this one in particular,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: is they're essentially saying that this is a supplier negotiation.
• 38:12
  And they're going to kind of pit people against each other and
• 38:17
  take the lowest bidder.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: And some people argue that that's appropriate and fine.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not one of them.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that we should be doing that with talent.
• 38:30
  And it also kind of says to me that they might not know what
• 38:40
  this job is worth.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you take this in context,
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: in the context of the rest of the posting,
• 38:47
  and we talked a little bit about how there are a bunch of
• 38:51
  things kind of jammed in.
• 38:53
  that might otherwise be split out to different roles or have
• 38:56
  support of an external
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: contractor or agency attached to them,
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_00: it starts to feel a little bit like they're playing catch up.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: They haven't had this capability before and they're saying,
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: we now need an e-commerce marketer because of A,
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: B,
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: and C.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe our customers,
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: our retail partners have asked for it and said,
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: you need to have someone dedicated to our account.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh, okay, what do we do?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:23
  So they went on a little Google hunt and mashed a couple of
• 39:26
  things together and
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: said,
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: we think it's this,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: this,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: and this,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: and this,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: and this,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: and this,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: and this,
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: and this.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: And wow, we don't know what that costs.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry, the candidates will tell us what they want.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, all right, fine.
• 39:39
  So are you going to take someone who asks for 7% more but is a
• 39:44
  way better fit and
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: toss them in the bin?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's weird.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not a great decision.
• 39:49
  yeah it's interesting to me because I also think like why why
• 39:57
  would you why would
• 39:58
  you say that and I think it's the reasons that you listed uh
• 40:01
  like why would you why
• 40:02
  would you say what what's the salary that you're looking for um
• 40:06
  because they don't
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: know what it is but it also is a reflection of
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 40:11
  shouldn't you have a budget for this allocated for this
• 40:15
  position like you would
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: have it budgeted,
• 40:19
  even if it's from like discretionary funds or it was an
• 40:22
  unexpected expense like you
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: should have.
• 40:25
  that money in your budget and so you should have some idea of
• 40:29
  what this role would
• 40:31
  be earning and you also raised a good point like so what's
• 40:34
  wrong then with giving
• 40:36
  like paying the lowest person to do the job um that's a good
• 40:40
  question and it helps
• 40:40
  to put me in my place a little bit too right and i know you
• 40:43
  didn't mean it that way
• 40:43
  but it's a good question like so why wouldn't a company pay the
• 40:46
  lowest amount to
• 40:48
  the person and i think it's because this job is a big ask and
• 40:51
  they're going to burn
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: out and i don't see that as a strategic move
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think paying the person the lowest amount is not strategic at all.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: you've got to pay people an amount that makes,
• 41:04
  that ensures that they're willing to do the work that you're
• 41:06
  asking them to do to
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: ensure that it's a fair trade-off.
• 41:09
  Um,
• 41:09
  people are willing to put up with a lot more when their pay is
• 41:11
  higher.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: They just, they just absolutely are.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: So, um, yeah, I do, I do find that really fascinating.
• 41:17
  You said something else that stuck with me and now I can't
• 41:19
  remember what it was for
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: the life of me.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I do have a question for you.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Who do you think wrote this job hosting?
• 41:29
  I think that this job posting was written by the person who is
• 41:36
  going to be managing this role.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: And they asked for some feedback from someone who works in HR-ish.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that this was put through a corporate HR team.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't have that feel to it.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not polished.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't include some of the language that you would expect.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the salary expectation thing, yeah, that really sticks out.
• 42:06
  Even if it's not a requirement in Ontario,
• 42:08
  it's becoming really,
• 42:09
  really common.
• 42:10
  Like I have a very difficult time when I'm doing my research
• 42:14
  for the show and I go
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: looking at job postings,
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: which sidebar,
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting some really interesting notifications on LinkedIn now.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: LinkedIn is so confused about like, what do you want?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're so confused.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, this guy's a consultant.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: He owns his own business.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's looking for a job.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: I agree.
• 42:36
  I think that it was written by someone who's kind of like
• 42:39
  adjacent to to this work.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_02: in some capacity,
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: got some kind of help,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: but it makes me wonder what their people structure is like,
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: because it doesn't read corporate HR to me at all,
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_02: but they must have corporate HR.
• 42:53
  I wonder if they don't yet have it maybe for Canada or like
• 42:57
  North America or whatever.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't, it doesn't read to me.
• 43:01
  It doesn't have like an HR or like people in culture or people
• 43:04
  operations kind of
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: like fingerprint on it to me.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, um,
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was just really curious about who you thought.
• 43:12
  Yeah,
• 43:13
  it really reads like the line level manager,
• 43:16
  the direct manager or someone on that team.
• 43:19
  Because the detail that they go into with the duties and
• 43:24
  responsibilities,
• 43:26
  that's detailed.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of,
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: to me,
• 43:29
  says that the person who wrote this has an intimate level of
• 43:32
  knowledge of what the
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: functional role is going to be.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was the line manager.
• 43:40
  I think maybe somebody said,
• 43:42
  you should hire this person and they're like,
• 43:43
  oh,
• 43:44
  okay.
• 43:45
  I've got 17 billion other things I got to do because I'm
• 43:48
  probably doing this job too.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_02: Again, this reads to me as a net new role.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: This doesn't read to me as a replacement role.
• 44:00
  There's something about it that makes me think that this is a
• 44:02
  brand new role to this team.
• 44:04
  um to this division uh so and maybe it's because it's it's kind
• 44:09
  of like a catch-all
• 44:11
  i don't know um but what are your thoughts on salary do you
• 44:15
  have some or i guess
• 44:15
  you want me to go first huh is that what do you what do you
• 44:19
  think what do you think
• 44:19
  this job what do you think this job's worth i i have been
• 44:24
  getting this wrong
• 44:25
  consistently every time but since there's no salary posted
• 44:30
  doesn't really matter my
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: best guess is
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like 85 to 100 is what I was thinking for this role.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Again, not familiar with the area.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know about the area until we sat down for this chat.
• 44:43
  So I don't know if it's in like a pricey neighborhood or what,
• 44:48
  but I'd say like 85 to 100.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: I, um, so I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull you.
• 44:55
  Uh,
• 44:56
  I think that there are,
• 44:58
  there are two price tags that are kind of important to talk
• 45:00
  about.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, first one is what do I think they're offering?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: And the second one, what do I think that it's actually worth?
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think that this is titled a specialist.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: So to me,
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: that kind of suggests that in their corporate structure,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: it's a org structure,
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: it's going to be kind of a,
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: kind of an entry level role to their organization.
• 45:23
  Like there's not going to be,
• 45:24
  this person's not going to be like high up on the pecking
• 45:26
  order.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that they're probably offering 70 to 85.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's kind of what it is.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: Manufacturers operate on really slim margins, so they tend to be cheap.
• 45:41
  In that environment,
• 45:42
  I know that they tend to be very cheap,
• 45:44
  very cost conscious.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: What do I think this is worth?
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: 90 to 110 as written.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I also don't think that this is a super viable job as it's written.
• 45:56
  I think that this probably what's going to happen with this
• 45:59
  role is I think they're
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: going to find someone that kind of fits the kind of like that they'll,
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: they'll take.
• 46:06
  I don't think they're going to find someone perfect,
• 46:09
  but they'll find someone that they'll take.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: That person will join the org,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: they'll do the things,
• 46:15
  they'll really struggle because they've got a lot on their
• 46:17
  plate and probably not a
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: ton of support.
• 46:22
  So either they'll quit because they're just like burned out or
• 46:26
  the org will adapt.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the org will say, okay, this ain't working so well.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to redistribute some of these responsibilities.
• 46:35
  We'll take like this little bucket and put it over here with
• 46:38
  this other person.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: We'll take this bucket, put it out with a contractor or an agency.
• 46:43
  And then we'll reduce the scope of these three other things so
• 46:47
  that you can
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: actually do the job.
• 46:49
  If the person is really good and they want to keep them around
• 46:51
  and they see
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: long-term benefit,
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: that's probably what's going to happen.
• 46:55
  If the person really struggles and doesn't build relationships
• 46:58
  in the org,
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: they'll probably just either get fired or say,
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: see you later,
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: guys.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do this.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I absolutely agree.
• 47:05
  And it would be interesting to keep an eye on this role in like
• 47:08
  the next six
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: months,
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_02: six to eight months and see if it's posted again.
• 47:13
  I think that that's another kind of future project for us is
• 47:18
  just keeping track of
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: these roles and seeing what's up.
• 47:21
  There was one we discussed not too long ago that was really
• 47:24
  like really a dual role
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: that I just can't imagine somebody can stay at long term.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I would be curious to see if within the next six months to a year,
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: they're reposting for that position.
• 47:37
  So,
• 47:38
  yeah,
• 47:39
  we'll keep everyone updated if and when we have that
• 47:43
  information.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Paul goes to LinkedIn,
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: follows the company and puts a filter on saying,
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: tell me when this company is hiring,
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: just to confuse the LinkedIn beast even more.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: What did you think about this role overall?
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: What would you score it out of 10?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Overall, I,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, there were a lot of things missing.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: There are some interesting things that I wanted to know more about.
• 48:10
  I'm concerned for myself that I'm starting to build this like
• 48:13
  bias of if they don't
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: put a salary,
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: I automatically can't rank it any higher than like X out of 10.
• 48:21
  I don't want to do that,
• 48:22
  but I can already like feel myself venturing into that space.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 48:26
  there was there was nothing about it to me that was exciting
• 48:29
  unless this is really,
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: truly the kind of work that you want to do in your career and grow into.
• 48:34
  um there wasn't anything too too exciting uh but i would say i
• 48:40
  don't know maybe
• 48:41
  like a five a five out of ten i'm feeling um yeah i could it
• 48:45
  could be better for
• 48:46
  sure but like i said i could see it being interesting to
• 48:49
  someone who's into that
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: specific kind of work
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, six for me.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_00: Six for me.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's largely just based on the missed opportunities.
• 48:59
  There's some really good stuff in here that had the person who
• 49:03
  wrote this job post,
• 49:04
  had they expanded on it and had they kind of talked a little
• 49:08
  bit about the mission
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: or the purpose or the fulfillment that you might get,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: this could have been a great job post.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: And consumer electronics organizations,
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's boring to work for them,
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: especially if you're in kind of a cog in the machine type role.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes they're really exciting,
• 49:27
  really fascinating organizations to work for just based on the
• 49:30
  nature of what they
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: do.
• 49:32
  Consumer electronics manufacturers,
• 49:34
  like they're global in scope,
• 49:36
  no matter what way you cut it.
• 49:37
  The supply chains are global,
• 49:39
  sales marketing chains,
• 49:40
  like there's always global elements to it.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like it can be really exciting.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: But this one is kind of meh than the salary thing, right?
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's, it's a bit bland to me.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think,
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: you go into interviews and so,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: so often are they saying like,
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh,
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: what,
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: what made you want to apply to this posting at our company,
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 49:59
  Like they want to hear you blow smoke up their ass a little bit
• 50:03
  about what is it
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: about this posting?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: What is it about this organization?
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: But you're giving much there for the person to say,
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: yes,
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: okay,
• 50:10
  go on the website and do your own research and come up with
• 50:13
  reasons why you're
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: interested in working with this company,
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_02: but like,
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: give a little bit like,
• 50:18
  to to the candidates a little bit more about why it is um that
• 50:23
  they should be
• 50:24
  excited about working with your company so yep i agree i i that
• 50:28
  didn't sway me i
• 50:29
  stand by my original rating but respect yeah they pay the they
• 50:35
  pay the bills job
• 50:36
  posting for sure and that's just what it is totally totally
• 50:40
  well that's been
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: another episode of roast the post shall we leave it here