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This or That 2: Electric Boogaloo · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to another uh sequel edition of Pittsburgh Sportsman Memories as we go over this or that two electric boogaloo for all you break-in fans out there of the 80s dance hit classic.
0:30
SPEAKER_00: Um as usual, I'm your co-host, Steve Wirt, and I'm joined by Hi, I'm Tim Hannon.
0:38
SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, in all throughout history, there's been lots of sequels.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, so Empire Strikes Back or Star Wars, Tim.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh, who do you think's better?
0:48
SPEAKER_00: Most people like Empire.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'll take Empire.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Of course, there was the infamous Clerks conversation of Empire, Return of the Jedi.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, Empire's more real life.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: I I would agree with Dante.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a bunch of down notes, whereas Return of the Jedi just has a bunch of Muppets.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do like Return of the Jedi.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: But Robert De Niro or Al Pacino, Tim?
1:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I'll take De Niro.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Al Pacino's a little more method.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: They're both in heat.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: They're both in a movie there.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: This one's an easy one for me.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: George Carlin or Jerry Seinfeld.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: I like Jerry Seinfeld, but I think he's also more our generation.
1:31
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: And Carlin was more like sarcastic than Seinfeld.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: Seinfeld's more like vanilla than Carlin's more chocolate ice cream.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: More edgy.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, more edgy.
1:43
SPEAKER_01: He he was funny.
1:44
SPEAKER_01: If you I mean, I've I've seen and heard some of his old stuff.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, he he actually was pretty funny.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, he does that.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Do you ever hear the thing he did about between baseball and football?
1:55
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's a great bit.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: If you yeah, anybody wants to look that up.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: Maybe we'll attach that to the links at the bottom, the George Carlin baseball and football thing.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, we're gonna debate what the uh preferences, you know.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: Of course, my preferences are all correct and Tim's are all wrong.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: And if you disagree with me, you're wrong too.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Just uh in keeping with the times, Tim, you know.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: A very, very good uh social media stance.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: That would it's like no one could just be like, well, you know, agree to disagree anymore.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, it's a life and death struggle.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are some things in life that you know are definitely 100% or you know, issues that are you know pretty cut and dry, but just because you know you like chocolate ice cream and I like vanilla ice cream doesn't mean we can't be friends, right?
2:45
SPEAKER_01: Unless you're on Twitter, then you can't be friends.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, and as of course the words of the 90s hip-hop group Black Sheep, the choice is yours, you know, this or that.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: So um also I also did fries on salad or chili on pasta, of course, referencing Pittsburgh's penchant for putting fries on salad to make you unhealthy, or I don't know what the heck Cincinnati's doing with that chili on pasta.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: I've never had it.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: When I go to I am gonna go to Cincinnati at some point in my life, and I will try it.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: I will try it, I'll give it a chance.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: Mr.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: Rogers said you never know about something until you try it.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: So have you ever you've been to Cincinnati, haven't you?
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've been to Cincinnati.
3:28
SPEAKER_01: I've been to Cincinnati, I've never tried the chili on pasta.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: You didn't go, you went all the way to Cincinnati for a Steelers game and did not try the Skyline Chili.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: I didn't.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I think you just missed out big time.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they don't serve it on Sundays.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it is their big Sunday dinner.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: Who knows?
3:45
SPEAKER_00: It's Cincinnati.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: You know what Cincinnati is?
3:48
SPEAKER_00: They're almost Kentucky.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: All right.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's enough of that.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: So uh so first up, we'll do a group of people, Pittsburgh Legends versus other people that are legends in other cities or realms of sport.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: First, uh, I think we actually did this in the Rod Woodson episode.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Rod Woodson versus Dion Sanders.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Uh Rod Woodson, of course, has 71 interceptions, 12 interceptions for touchdowns all time.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: That's the record, six-time Pro Bowl, 90s all decade team, Super Bowl champ, NFL defensive player of the year, 93.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Dion played 14 years, only has 53 interceptions, but he has two Super Bowl champions.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: He also has a career batting average of 263 and 39 home runs, Tim, just for fun.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: So you're starting a football team and you have to draft the corner.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Who are you picking?
4:46
SPEAKER_00: Eon or Rod.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: So I think for all these, the first thing we got to say is obviously we're gonna have some bias, right?
4:54
SPEAKER_01: Towards the person.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: But we're gonna try to be try to be objective.
5:00
SPEAKER_01: I am totally objective.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: So um yeah, if I'm starting a team, I'm picking Woodson because he's the more well-rounded player.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: He's gonna tackle, he's gonna blitz, he's gonna do more than just cover.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Um Dion Dion was probably better as a pure coverage guy.
5:23
SPEAKER_00: I I was like, if I need a shutdown corner that I'm going with Dion.
5:27
SPEAKER_00: If I need a guy that maybe play the other side or like strong, like Rod wouldn't really should have been a safety, but he was so fast, he was really too fast to be a safety.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I I don't know.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean I I like I think I'm with you.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Dion's the better cover corner, Rod's the better all-around defensive back, if that's that's why Rod had a longer, a little longer career than Dion, and was better.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: I think Rod Woodson was better at the end of his career than Dion was.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Dion nobody remembers like Dion at the end of his career.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: I remember with was that with Dallas?
6:04
SPEAKER_00: I remember like Marvin Harrison just running by him, and there was nothing he could do about it.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Dion at the very, very end of his career played for the Ravens, if you remember that.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he just wasn't that good.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: And Rod at the end played still for the Raiders, right?
6:20
SPEAKER_00: I believe so, yeah.
6:21
unknown: Yeah.
6:22
SPEAKER_00: He played for the Ravens too, but but it and he was still effective with the Raiders.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: So Yeah, I think again, so yeah, you you're saying it's basically depends on roster composition, is is how you would determine it.
6:36
SPEAKER_01: I I think that's fair.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, what are you looking for?
6:40
SPEAKER_00: Are you looking for a guy that's just gonna shut somebody down?
6:42
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, Dion always said it's not his job to tackle people, and it there is an element of truth there.
6:48
SPEAKER_00: If he's tackling somebody, something's horrifically gone wrong on your defense.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like the guy, um, I can't remember the guy from the Vikings, who uh Paul Krauss, I think his name.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, who took, remember, it took him like 20 years to get in the NFL Hall of Fame, and he's the all-time interceptions leader.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: If that was baseball hall of fame, he would have been in first ballot because they're all stats, but nobody ever respected him because, like, oh, well, he never tackled anybody.
7:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, he was playing like free safety for the Vikings.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, if Paul Krause was tackling something, Jim Marshall messed up, man.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna do?
7:29
SPEAKER_00: I like, I like I always thought Rod was the better overall player, and I think we both kind of agree on that.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: Here's another one, and this is really close.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: I don't know which way to go on this one.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: I I might, I don't know.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: We'll see, Tim.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Bill Cower or the Colonel, Tom Coughlin.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: This is a close one, Tim.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: Uh Bill Cower, first Super Bowl.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: He has one Super Bowl win.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: It was kind of later in his career.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: Actually, it was the second and last season he ever coached.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: 161, 99, and one.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: He had a 6'19 winning percentage.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: He had a legendary quarterback.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, he had many coaches under him, went on to be head coaches.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Dick Lebeau, Marvin Lewis, Ken Hizenhunt, Chan Gailey, Don Capers.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Great winning record in playoff streak.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Remember, they had that great winning record and playoff streak to start his career?
8:20
SPEAKER_00: Like he was up there with Paul Brown.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, moving on to Colonel, we won't include his time at Boston College because we'll just you know compare the pro part.
8:31
SPEAKER_00: He had two Super Bowl wins as head coach, one as an assistant.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: So he actually, I guess technically has three.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Um he was Jacksonville for seven years, he had a 68-60 record, and then he was the Giants coach for 11 years, and he won two Super Bowls with them.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: 182, 157, a 537 win percentage.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, and probably his biggest most impressive thing is they beat Tom Brady in the Super Bowl twice.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: And that's no small feat, because goodness gracious, you imagine if it wasn't for him and Eli Manning, Tom Brady would have nine Super Bowl wins.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: That's true.
9:09
SPEAKER_00: Um so I I I don't know.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: I I guess I'll go with the Colonel on this one, although the reason he's called the Colonel is he would just very strict with his team, like much like Bud Grant.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Apparently, we're gonna talk a lot about the 1970s Minnesota Vikings today.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: Um very strict, um very like kind of bend the rules kind of guy, much like Bill Belichick.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, remember they had to change the rule on um what was it, the uh practice squad guys?
9:41
SPEAKER_00: Because when he coached in Jacksonville, he signed a guy, I think it was Arnaz Battle, was the actual player.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: He signed a guy off the Steelers practice squad to Jacksonville just the week before and cut him like as soon as the week was over, and he was like asking them like, hey, well, what kind of plays are they running up there in Pittsburgh?
10:00
SPEAKER_00: And what's the offense look like and all this?
10:03
SPEAKER_00: And so the NFL changed the rule was like, if you're gonna pick somebody off the other team's practice squad, you actually have to address them.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to play them, but they have to take up a roster spot on your game day roster because he was signing people and they were just not even playing them.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: He had no intention of playing them.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: He was just using them for, I guess, spying.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: This is the original spy gate to him.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I um it's amazing how similar those two guys were.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, they both they both made it to two Super Bowls and and those were all in seasons where it looked like the team was gonna disappoint.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, like if you look at like the Cowers two Super Bowl teams, there was a point in both those seasons where it looked like they might not even make the playoffs.
10:56
SPEAKER_01: And if you look at Coughlin's two Super Bowl teams with the Giants, it was it was similar.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: They that that 2011 team, they were seven and seven on Christ at Christmas.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: They were seven and seven and they had the Super Bowl.
11:08
SPEAKER_00: That's the that's the team that beat the undefeated team.
11:11
SPEAKER_01: No, that was the second one in 2011.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, there was the one year, remember, the undefeated year where the Patriots actually beat the Giants in the regular season, and there was no it it didn't matter to the Giants whether they won or lost that game.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: And to his credit, and I always thought this is maybe karma, maybe it was the football gluts, you remember he played all his starters that game.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: And they played to win.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if that experience of playing them, they kind of learned, you know, something about the Patriots and made them actually play a game, if they got, you know, maybe not, you know, intel, but like, you know what I mean, like a confidence, or they kind of knew what the Patriots would do to them in the Super Bowl.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: So And that was that was like four weeks before, four or five weeks before they played the Patriots in the Super Bowl.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: Right.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: And that was very similar to the Steelers playing the Colts in 2005.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Four or five weeks before they massively upset them in the postseason.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: So But I will say this the the Steelers needed to win that game, and the I remember the Giants didn't really need that game.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: It didn't really matter to them.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's true.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: That that that is a difference for sure.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing that's similar with both these guys is so the the years they made the Super Bowls were years that they weren't really projected to, or or even going into the playoffs weren't projected to.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: But then there were all these there were several other years where they were like the number one seed, or like that this is the most dominant team that Cower or Coughlin has ever had.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: So for example, I mean Cowler obviously, you know, losing the 94 AFC championship game, the 01-04 AFC championship games.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: Coughlin, the 99 Jaguars were 14.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: That's and they couldn't beat uh who could be.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: That was it.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was three losses.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, we're all at a touch.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: But the Tennessee.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: They could beat everybody but Tennessee.
13:08
SPEAKER_00: I remember that.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: And and then he had a Giants team in 08.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: That was the year after they beat the undefeated Patriots.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: They were the number one seed, I believe, in the playoffs that year, totally dominant, and then they lose their first playoff game at home.
13:21
SPEAKER_01: That was a huge upset to Philadelphia.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: So it was just like it was just funny that both those guys had such similar trajectories in terms of who's better, man.
13:33
SPEAKER_01: I I probably give Coward just a little bit of an edge because I feel like he had better consistency.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go against you.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say Coughlin because he beat Brady twice.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I realize that's that's an Eli thing, and but I that just counts a lot for me.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: And he had a bad now at the end of his career, he had a lot of bad years with the Giants.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of what I was saying about Cower having the edge for consistency.
14:00
SPEAKER_01: Like Coughlin has a bunch of like six win seasons later in his resume.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: And I know Cower had some down years too, but but not like that.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, not like that.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: But maybe he retired before it got to that.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I I don't know.
14:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's fair.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: And and it's also fair, like the beating Brady twice is something Cower could never do.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: Like Cower had two Cower had two chances to beat Brady in an AFC championship game, and he couldn't do that.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: So um uh yeah, I think I think I wouldn't say you're wrong giving Coplin the edge, for sure.
14:33
SPEAKER_00: And and they were always such a tough out when he was in Jacksonville.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean they beat us that first the was it the first time we played them or when they were an expansion team?
14:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
14:44
SPEAKER_00: In Jacksonville, yeah.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: So uh moving on, uh how about Terry Bradshaw versus Roger Staubach?
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Ten-year career for Roger the Dodger, 153 touchdowns and 109 interceptions, uh 22,700 pass yards.
15:06
SPEAKER_00: That's only a hundredth all time, Tim.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: He's a two-time Super Bowl champ, Super Bowl MVP.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: He's a Navy veteran.
15:14
SPEAKER_00: Do you know he was in Vietnam, Tim?
15:16
unknown: Yes.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: He just didn't grab and he actually served like for real.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: Like he wasn't just like hanging out and like Saigon like chilling like other people.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: He was actually out on the front lines.
15:28
SPEAKER_00: Um Terry Bradshaw, four-time Super Bowl champion, 212 touchdowns to 210 interceptions.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh he is 27,989, 67th all-time passing yards.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh Terry is of course a two-time Super Bowl MVP, NFL MVP of 1978, four-time Super Bowl champion, and a veteran of TV.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm gonna go with Terry on this one just he has more Super Bowl wins.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: Although I don't know.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Roger Roger played on some bad teams too.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: So I I I don't know.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean they they there it's that's a little closer than it would it would seem like it should be Terry Bradshaw hands down, but I think Roger Stahlbach has a little bit more of a stronger case than you think.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: Like just, you know, he he didn't I mean they had good teams in Dallas, but at the same time he he definitely didn't have the defense that Terry had.
16:35
SPEAKER_00: And I I don't know, it's probably unfair.
16:38
SPEAKER_00: Like two of his Super Bowls.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: The reason he doesn't have four and Terry is too because they you know faced off in two Super Bowls.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: So what say you, Tim?
16:47
SPEAKER_00: Who do you you're picking Terry?
16:50
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I mean that's another kind of razor-thin margin, but they played each other twice in the Super Bowl and Brad's all both times.
16:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh to me, that's the tiebreaker.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: Right.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if if you're gonna debate like Steph Curry versus LeBron James, like well, Steph Curry beat him three out of four years.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: So that the if if everything else is a tie, I I would say the guy that wins in the championship when they're going head to head, that's who you give the edge to.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: And and you could say, well, the Steelers might have had a better defense, although Dallas had a really good defense, too.
17:23
SPEAKER_00: They did.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: They did.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they were no and Terry.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Was that the game against Dallas?
17:28
SPEAKER_00: He got knocked out and didn't play the second half or it wasn't the second half.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it was more like it was like later in the game.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: It was it was after he threw the touchdown.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: It was on the play where he threw the touchdown pass to Swan to give them the two-score lead.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: So so um, yeah, he didn't play the last that was that was the game where that Chuck Noel went for it like fourth and one because he didn't want to kick a punt or something.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was Super Bowl 10.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: And then Super Bowl 13, I mean, that was just like fireworks back and forth.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the other interesting thing that people don't remember is that you know, Bradshaw, you know, Roger Staubak was he was America's team quarterback, and he's this navy veteran, and he's so smart, and Terry Bradshaw's kind of like the country pumpkin.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: The the the interesting thing that people don't remember is Terry called his own Terry had a lot of freedom to call his own plays.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Roger did not.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: Tom Landry, like basic they were basically running a modern offense.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: So I I I think that's another reason you have to give a little bit more of an edge to Terry Bradshaw because he did he was doing a lot of that on his own, where Staubach not to take anything away from Staubach, like you said, that's how every quarterback today would do it.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, but Staubach was getting you know all the all the calls from Landry and and Terry wasn't.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: So well too, and they did like Roger went through his lumps early in his career.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: That's why they always called him Roger the Dodger, is like he would drive Landry nuts because he would run around a lot, and they you know, they'd be ghost like they played uh I think him and was it Morton?
19:10
SPEAKER_00: They they had that game in Chicago where they changed quarterbacks every play.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: Was that him and Roger Staubach?
19:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it was Craig Morton and they lost Yeah, I say Cliff Moryman, Craig Morton's.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they lost Super Bowl five with Craig Morton as the starter, and then that was the next season they finally went to Stahlbach, and that's when they started that's when they won the Super Bowl the next season, and then that's when they started becoming the the the the the Dallas team that you know and love of the 70s or don't love right if you're in Pittsburgh.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Don't love so we both went with Terry on that one, right?
19:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's enough of these people thing.
19:53
SPEAKER_00: Let's go with like groups of people, Tim.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: Do you like groups of people?
19:57
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: I love groups.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: You love groups, Republicans, Democrats, Flash mobs, whatever.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: Um uh how about the 76 Steelers defense versus the odd Ravens defense?
20:11
SPEAKER_00: And not every day you get to say aught, Tim.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: No.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: The buckshot, the double zero.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: Um so the double zero Ravens defense, which would be the 2000 Ravens defense.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh they had an overall record of 12-4.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: They had a 16-game season, and they actually had to play three playoff games and a Super Bowl, Tim, and they only allowed 23 points in four games in postseason play, 165 points total for the year, uh, 970 rush yards.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: They won Super Bowl 35 over those Pesky Giants and Jim Fossil and Gary Collins.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: It was a blowout, wasn't even much of a game.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh the 76 Steelers defense, they had a 10-4 record, so it's kind of hard to compare because it was a 14-game season.
21:01
SPEAKER_00: 28 points over nine games, it was 9.9 points per game.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: That's an NFL record, five shutouts, 138 points for the season.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Tim.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: Nine passing TDs.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Nine passing TDs, Tim.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Do you understand that number?
21:25
SPEAKER_00: That's for a 14-game season.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: And guess how many rushing touches?
21:31
SPEAKER_00: They they they, you know, felt kind of insulted that they gave out nine passing, so they only gave up five, five rushing TDs.
21:39
SPEAKER_00: I felt like, you know, the you know, the uh what's it called, the principal on Ferris Bueller nine times.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh unfortunately they lost to the Raiders in the championship game.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: In a game that um was at Jack Lambert after the game said, Give me a beer and let me play this one again.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: I think we'll win.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, Franco and Rocky, of course, were hurt.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: They didn't have much on offense that whole season.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: Terry was hurt a lot, and the defense was just like, screw this, we're gonna win.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: And they almost made it to the Super Bowl.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: Who d who would they have played in the Super Bowl?
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Was that have been the Vikings again?
22:16
SPEAKER_01: Once again, we're back to the 1970s Minnesota Vikings.
22:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's who they would have played.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: Because that's the Super Bowl with the Winnie Willie Lanier, like Ritter.
22:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: So um I don't know.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know who to pick here.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: I I guess I'll go with the Ravens defense.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: Pains me to say it just because they won a Super Bowl and they played they played, what, four more games total, I'm going to say.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: They played two in the regular season.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Three more games total.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Plus the Super Bowl.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, four more games total.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: So what say you, Tim?
22:53
SPEAKER_00: Your dad said this is the best Steeler team he've ever seen in 76.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: I've heard him say that before.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it probably was.
23:02
SPEAKER_01: I think we we talked about that we had that three lost rings episode.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: It probably was the best Steelers team.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, this will be sacrilege, but I have to go with the Ravens 2000 defense because the Bullies of Baltimore.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, Tony Sarracusa.
23:18
SPEAKER_00: Well, they did have Tony Sarracusa and Ray Lewis and who else who else and yeah.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it was a it was a a really dominant unit.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: So we're the Steelers.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: I think the the 76 Steelers have the unbelievable mind-blowing stats.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Five shutouts, nine touchdown passes.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: My God, like you'll never see something like that again.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: But but I think two things I would give the Ravens an edge on.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Number one, in 1976, you still had roles that favored the defense.
23:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they hadn't the Mel the Mel Blunt role wasn't for two more seasons.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes, Mel Blunt could still chuck a guy at the line of scrimmage, all that kind of stuff.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: So that's number one.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: Number two, the Ravens won the Super Bowl and made it to the Super Bowl.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: And the Steelers, I mean, if you have this legendary dominant can't stop at defense, how do the Raiders score 24 points in the AFC championship game on you?
24:13
SPEAKER_01: Right?
24:14
SPEAKER_01: That's that's where and I know Franco and Rocky were hurt, but then it should have been like a you know nine to six loss or something, right?
24:22
SPEAKER_01: Like that, that you could more excuse.
24:25
SPEAKER_01: So so to me, it's it's like if if the Ravens didn't exactly have, you know, they had turned Delphine.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I don't think the Ravens played like any like who did the Ravens play in the playoffs that year recently.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: They played Tennessee, who was the number one seed, who was come who was the defending AFC champions, who were really, really good.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: They were like 14-2, and then they played the Raiders, who were an offensive powerhouse in that area.
24:52
SPEAKER_01: So they they they beat some good teams in the playoffs.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: Now the Giants in the Super Bowl, I mean, that was like the Kerry Collins Giants.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: Probably not the greatest, you know.
25:00
SPEAKER_01: It was kind of like the Bears beating the 85 Patriots.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: It's like you would have liked to see those defenses like you would have liked to see the 85 Bears beat Montana or the 2000 Ravens beat, you know.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: Well, that was kind of in-between era, so you didn't have Manning and Brady yet.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: But but you would have liked to see them beat that level of talent rather than uh, you know, the Giants.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: But they still won, and that that Super Bowl was one was a defensive shutout.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: They they they did not allow the Giants to score an offensive point in that game.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: The only touchdown, the only points the Giants had came on a kick turn.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: So I think was Marvin Lewis on the coaching staff of the Ravens?
25:41
SPEAKER_00: I think that's the first one.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he was the defensive coordinator.
25:45
SPEAKER_00: There you go.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: There's your, you know, much like the local news, I have to find the Pittsburgh connection.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: So fun fact, the Steelers beat them in Baltimore that year.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes, that was one of I think that was the last touchdown they gave up, like on defense, or one of the few.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because that was it was a passing touchdown to Heinz war.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think I think I I just said nine to six.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: I think that was actually the final score of that game.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it was.
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, Trent Dilfer.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
26:18
SPEAKER_01: Well, Trent Dilfer was not the starting quarterback for that game.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: No, it was Toadie Banks.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so Trent Dilfer wasn't even in the lineup until halfway through the season, and he just he did enough, and he did a decent job.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: Like people were just people think that Trent Dilfer was a joke.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: He he played well that season, but I mean, if he doesn't have one of the greatest defenses of all time, he probably doesn't win the Super Bowl.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: I think he he was like a skilled enough quarterback and smart enough to know, okay, just make the throws when I need to make them.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Don't turn the ball over, and we're probably at least going to be in the game, if not winning it.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly exactly.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Again, if you're comparing to the 85 Bears, Jim McMahon had a very similar season that year.
27:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, Jim McMahon never really um was a star quarterback, uh, but that season he he did he had the kind of that same MO.
27:12
SPEAKER_01: So you're right, there's really dominant defenses.
27:14
SPEAKER_01: That's the kind of quarterback you you need.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: So we both went with uh the Ravens, and now that that's the sound of everybody clicking off the show, unsubscribing.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: Groaning, unliking our Facebook page.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: So um next up, uh hopefully things this we'll bring them all back with the next category, Tim.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: We're going back to people, we're done with groups of people there, our one group of people.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Um Reggie Jackson versus Willie Starjoel, Tim.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: So Reggie, uh Mr.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: October batted 262, had 2,584 hits.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: He actually has 563 home runs.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: AL MVP, five-time World Series winner, Tim.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: Two-time World Series MVP.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: Um Pops.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Pops had a better average.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: I think 282, which is hard to believe.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: 2,232 hits, seven-time All-Star, one-time NL MVP, one-time World Series MVP, and he doesn't have 500 home runs.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: I always forget that about Willie Starjeld.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: He only has 475 home runs.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Um man, I love Willie Starjeld's like my favorite player of all time.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: One thing Reggie Jackson does lead Willie Starjoil in is uh pushing fans out of the way to get off the field.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh if you ever seen that.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: I think was that after a World Series or that was after like a game, a playoff game or something.
28:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Like all the fans in New York ran on the field and Reggie Jackson's like elbowing people to get off.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: He's like, get out of my way.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm Reggie Jackson.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: He also tried to assassinate the Queen.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes, he did.
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Must kill Queen.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: If it wasn't for the brave efforts of Frank Drevin.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: The Umpire.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: He saved the Queen's life.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: That's not the umpire, Your Honor.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: Hey!
29:12
SPEAKER_02: It's Enrico Palazzo!
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I get I guess Reggie Jackson, because he has more home runs and won more series and was a series MVP twice.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh he won a couple with uh Oakland.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: I always forget that he won those two in Oakland.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: Oakland was a very dominant.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: I think it was three.
29:38
SPEAKER_01: I think he won three.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, actually, yeah.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: And then he won what?
29:42
SPEAKER_00: A couple with the Yankees?
29:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: So uh what do you think, Tim?
29:47
SPEAKER_00: Are you gonna I I I hate to go against Willie.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: I love Willie Starjoy.
29:50
SPEAKER_00: He was Willie was so key to that 79 team winning.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I m you know they make that argument about um if you're picking an MVP, sometimes it's really it's most valuable to your team versus most valuable in terms of like stats or accomplishments.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where you give you can give the edge to Star Joe here because I think those A's teams and those Yankees teams still would have been pretty darn good without Jackson.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Maybe maybe not, maybe they don't win championships, but they still would have been pretty good.
30:28
SPEAKER_01: Like the 79 Pirates, they just don't win anything without Star Joe, they just don't.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: It's that's just simple fact.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh now, you know, Reggie hit the three home runs in the World Series game, you know, like there there were games he kind of single-handedly won in the postseason, so it's not like he wasn't extremely valuable to his team, too.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: I just think, you know, if if you take if you take both those guys away from their teams, the Reggie teams fare better than the Starto teams.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: So that's why I'd give the edge to Starto here, if that makes sense.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Makes sense.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: I and Willie Stargil's my favorite pirate of all time.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: I've said that before.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: I love Paul Ops.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Favorite growing up, pretended to be like you ever have like played Waffle Ball on a guy you always pretended to be?
31:13
SPEAKER_00: No, that was the Willie Starjell.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: And so I struck out a lot.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: No.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: Although Reggie Jackson has more strikeouts than Willie Stargil.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: So put that in your pipe and smoke it, Tim.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: Um we're gonna go.
31:33
SPEAKER_00: This next category is called good guys versus bad guys.
31:37
SPEAKER_00: And um I am just comparing.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: Let me here is my big disclaimer, Tim, and I think you can agree with this.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: This is on the field only, not off the field.
31:49
SPEAKER_00: On the field, okay?
31:51
SPEAKER_00: On the field, because you know where I'm going with this.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: This is a Jew.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: OJ Simpson, not a Jew.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: Um but you know who is Hall of Fame for Rod Carew.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
32:06
SPEAKER_01: Little little fun fact, courtesy of Adam Sandler there.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: OJ Simpson versus Franco Harris.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh OJ uh led the league rushing many times.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: 2,000-yard rusher.
32:21
SPEAKER_00: I think he's the first NFL 2,000-yard rusher.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh 1973 NFL MVP.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: He was second all-time when he retired with 11,236 rush yards.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: He's now 21st all-time, 61 rush yards.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: He's a Heisman Trophy winner, five-time pro loop bowler, and um he has the uh he holds the record in most people stabbed in the NFL.
32:46
SPEAKER_00: Uh Franco uh for his uh this boy, this really is like a total the opposite of OJ, huh?
32:58
SPEAKER_00: Rushing yards.
33:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh I didn't write uh he had 12,120.
33:04
SPEAKER_00: He actually had more than OJ when he retired.
33:07
SPEAKER_00: Second all-time.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: He's now 15th all time.
33:10
SPEAKER_00: So actually they're like right around each other in rushing yards.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Um he's a Super Bowl MVP, 91 rushing touchdowns.
33:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, Franco did not win any uh you know um Heisman trophies or anything like that.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh Franco was a you know very good person.
33:29
SPEAKER_00: Both these people were late, have passed away at this point.
33:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, well, you know, OJ was doing whatever he did in his after career.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: Franco was like protesting on the county steps, you know, trying to trying to protest, you know, racism and unfair treatment.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: So a little bit of a that's why that's a good guys versus bad guys.
33:50
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm just gonna go with Franco.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: I'm just gonna be totally biased.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: I I like Franco and I I just I'm sorry.
33:57
SPEAKER_00: It's just the shame that OJ did that after maybe it'd be a little easier to be more objective.
34:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, I'm not picking OJ in anything.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: And he was really good when he played football.
34:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean you're right, it makes it so hard to I I think too, like the thing with OJ is you know, it's it's not just that he allegedly stabbed two people to death.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: It's the fact that he got away with it, right?
34:26
SPEAKER_01: And he he had enough money to get a lawyer team that could, you know.
34:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, if the glove doesn't fit, Tim, you must have quit.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, and and and so so yeah, I I you're right.
34:40
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people are not OJ fans, which is totally understandable.
34:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, so if we're trying to be just completely objective, which like you said, it's almost impossible.
34:50
SPEAKER_01: Here's where I would give the edge to Franco.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: He made it to the Super Bowl, you know.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Well, well, yeah, that's right.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: He played yeah, he played huge in the Super Bowls.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Franco was was more transformative to his team.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, Joe Green, who who everybody associated with the Steelers has said Joe Green's the greatest stealer ever.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: Joe Green has been on record saying multiple times, like Franco was the transformative player that made them good.
35:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, Joe Green said, Hey, I I was there for three or four years and we still stunk, and then Franco came and we were good, and we were always good after that.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh was that him or Rooney said, Well, we didn't win a lot before him and we won a lot after him.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think Rooney Muddy said the same thing.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and that's true.
35:37
SPEAKER_01: And like back then, see, people don't remember like today, that would be like Patrick Mahomes or you know, uh Josh Allen, or that that would be the transformative player.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: Back then, the transformative players were the running backs.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Well, the 70s were all about the running backs.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and so that's why you had OJ doing like Hertz commercials.
36:00
SPEAKER_00: Like now that would you know, now that's definitely you know, Patrick Mahomes or Peyton Manning or Right, exactly.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: And so and so as good as OJ was, what did the Bills ever win?
36:14
SPEAKER_01: Right?
36:14
SPEAKER_00: Nothing that and they and the Steelers he that that year he had 2,000 rushing yards, didn't they play the Steelers in the playoffs?
36:22
SPEAKER_01: It was the year after that, it was 74, but still they lost to the Steelers in the playoffs, yeah.
36:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they they in the first game I I remember they um he put up like 200 yards on them, and then they said because like if you watch the Americas game on that, he the like mean joke's like he wasn't having any, and I think he had like 50 yards if that.
36:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like him and him and Donnie Shell weren't putting up with that crap.
36:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and that wasn't the case for Franco.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: And and teams were key on Franco the same way teams were key on OJ.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: And and Franco, you know, Super Bowl nine, he was the MVP, they couldn't stop him in that game.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: Now, you know, again, Pittsburgh had a better quarterback, Pittsburgh had a better defense, maybe Pittsburgh had a better offensive line, I don't know what Buffalo's offensive line was, but yeah just the point being that that that the running backs were like the quarterbacks back then, and it it would just be like comparing um, I don't know, Tom Brady to, you know, a really good Dante Culpepper, right?
37:25
SPEAKER_01: Like a good quarterback of the same era that maybe made some Pro Bowls but didn't win anything.
37:31
SPEAKER_01: That's why you have to give the edge to Franco.
37:33
SPEAKER_00: Did Jack Kemp Jack Kemp played with OJ, didn't he?
37:37
SPEAKER_00: I think he did.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
37:39
SPEAKER_01: I thought it was more Joe Ferguson.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: And I think you're right, I think it was more Joe Ferguson.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: So who was also a good quarterback.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, again, that's what I'm saying.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: Like, it's not like OJ it wasn't like OJ was, I don't know, Archie Manning.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, you just you just played on these terrible, awful teams.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Buffalo had some good teams, but he never got them over the top, and Franco Franco did.
38:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I so yeah, I give it to Franco, and that's you know, regardless of you know how many people each guy murdered, allegedly.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:12
SPEAKER_00: So we're both going with Franco just because we're both big homers.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: So cool.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm alright.
38:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm all I'm comfortable with that.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: I I'm okay with that.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: Um Al Davis versus Art Rooney Sr.
38:29
SPEAKER_00: I went with him more than Dan.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: I I I I I don't know.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: I I think I think I think Dan wouldn't even be an argument just because it just wouldn't be.
38:39
SPEAKER_01: Like I like again, I we've been on record on the show saying Mary Olamieux and Dan Rooney are the two most important sports figures in Pittsburgh sports history, so arts arts a link's a little closer.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think I think Al overlaps with both, but maybe he more his prime was more with arts than Dan's, maybe.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Although, I mean, although in the 80s the Raiders were really good.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean so Al Davis, if you don't know who he is, he owned the Raiders Oakland Sash LA but not Vegas.
39:14
SPEAKER_00: I think he died before they moved to Vegas, right?
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: So his son, uh Mark Davis now owns them with a terrible haircut.
39:25
SPEAKER_00: So but he still wears the track suit, so it looks cool.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: Um three-time Super Bowl champion, owner of the Raiders from 1966 to 2011.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: He was actually commissioner of the AFL.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: He was actually a head coach.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: I think they won an AFL championship with him.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: I think he forced an AFL NFL merger.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: His big saying is Tim, just win, baby.
39:52
SPEAKER_00: Or a commitment to excellence.
39:54
SPEAKER_00: Or what else?
39:55
SPEAKER_00: Did they have any?
39:56
SPEAKER_00: He had a couple sayings.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: I always like just win, baby.
40:00
SPEAKER_00: Um Art Rooney Sr.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Um he owned the Steelers from 1933 to 1988.
40:06
SPEAKER_00: He's a very nice guy.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Um he's a four-time Super Bowl champ.
40:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, he helped with negotiations between the merger of the AFL and NFL.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: And in Dan's book, Dan Rooney, his son's book, they talk about when they are talking merger, how Al Davis would like, I guess, say a bunch of like stuff that was inflammatory or like really take a hard line in the negotiation, like, oh, you know, however, whatever that negotiating point was, Al would take like a really extreme position.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: And you know, Dan would want to get up and like start fighting with him, and the chief would be like, hey, just sit down, just be calm.
40:43
SPEAKER_00: We'll calmly handle this.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: That's what he wants.
40:46
SPEAKER_00: He wants you to get riled up, not play into it.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: Boy, it's funny.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: A lot of uh politicians could probably learn from something.
40:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm speaking to you, Democrat Party.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, when somebody's antagonizing you, maybe the calm approach and reasonable approach might be better, but just saying, not hating.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Um so uh I and you know, art Art Rooney Seniors, definitely class act.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: I think Al was behind the lawsuit of Chuck Knoll, didn't they?
41:16
SPEAKER_00: Because they Chuck Knoll called um was it uh oh, what was his name?
41:21
SPEAKER_00: The guy from the Raiders.
41:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the criminal element comment.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: They all Dan always in his book said that Al Davis was behind that.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm gonna go with art, I guess.
41:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I like art better.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: I like Al.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: I I do I I totally respect the eight Raiders, and you know why, Tim?
41:43
SPEAKER_00: Because it's it's not like the Patriots who are like fake.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: They try to be fake good.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: Like I always feel like like with the Boston teams, they're you're pure unadulterated evil.
41:53
SPEAKER_00: You just pretend to be good.
41:54
SPEAKER_00: The Raiders are pure unadulterated evil.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: They tell you they're evil, they tell you you're cheating, and I totally respect the heck out of their honesty there.
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And I I would say that they are secretly, I I secretly root for the Raiders sometimes, Tim.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: Because I just I love that they're just pure unadulterated.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: They're not, they're the bad guy.
42:14
SPEAKER_00: You know they're the bad guy, they're gonna be the bad guy, and you're just gonna have to deal with it.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: It it made it a more fun rivalry, too.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: And they like they they were happy to take on that heel role.
42:26
SPEAKER_01: It's almost like a WWE, like, yeah, the guy playing the game.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: Roddy, Roddy Piper, yeah.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: Just yeah.
42:33
SPEAKER_00: And you love them for it.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:35
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's just like I always felt like the Patriots are always gonna be like, oh, look, we're the good guys.
42:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, you're not.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: You're pure unadulterated evil.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: Same thing with the Red Sox and Bruins.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: You'll cheat just as much as anybody else.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: You just pretend you don't.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: The Raiders don't even pretend.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: They're like, no, Raider rule number one, cheating is encouraged.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: And then what was Raider rule number two?
42:57
SPEAKER_00: See, you were Raider rule number one, right?
42:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:00
SPEAKER_01: No, and and some of those guys who you used to hate, like Phil Villa Piano, I think he would, I think he would get, if you brought him back for like an immaculate reception, he get it.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: He would get yeah, he would get innovation, I think, from the crowd, just out of respect.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: Um in terms of like Davis versus Rooney, I mean, if you're talking about on-field accomplishments, you know, you got to give the edge to Davis, right?
43:25
SPEAKER_00: If you're talking about the field stuff, Tim, because he he was a big figure in forcing that merger between the AFL.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: He was the one that came up with the philosophy of how they forced the merger, was they started signing all the quarterbacks for like tons of money.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: But so, so yeah, on the field, off the field accomplishments, maybe Davis.
43:51
SPEAKER_01: If you're just going like holistic impact on the franchise, impact on the league, it's probably a little more um.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: The Rooney just because yeah, Rooney was part of that group that just kept the league afloat.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: Like there wouldn't even be a league anymore if guys like him hadn't sacrificed and toiled for years just to like have a team on the field and make it through the Depression, make it through World War II, make it through you know, all these eras where the the league wasn't anywhere near what it was today.
44:24
SPEAKER_01: Um and and Al Davis has said that.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Al Davis has said like that the we should never forget that the you know the backs of of of the people that this league was built on.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: Um the other thing is like Rooney was such a uh nicer, you know, and I mean Al Davis wasn't mean.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of really good stories of Al Davis helping people that you don't really hear about.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: Right.
44:48
SPEAKER_00: He's kind of like a Steinbrenner, he he more feels like a Steinbrenner, like he liked to play the bad guy, and I think too, he saw the benefit of it because you can't have yeah, it's like wrestling, you can't have a bunch of good guys without a bunch of heels for people to root against.
45:02
SPEAKER_00: You have to have somebody to root against as much to root for.
45:07
SPEAKER_01: That's one thing, but then like moving his team and suing the league and suing other teams, like that's the kind of stuff that Art Rooney would have never engaged in.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's the the kind of that to me, that's a it's if it were me, I wouldn't want my legacy to be, you know, I did everything I could, I worked hard, I helped this league, I helped this team.
45:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, maybe I didn't win as many games or as many championships, but but the way I went about it is is just a little more um I hate to use the word righteous, but a little more righteous then than you know the way I'll do it.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: I I would say maybe maybe classy, a little more classy.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: Classy is probably a better word, yeah.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, in the Coliseum, he forced them to build like 20,000 more seats.
45:55
SPEAKER_00: It like I was in the Coliseum one time, and it it's like it's just this big monstrous hump in the outfield of seats, and they used to call it Mount Davis.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: It was just ridiculous because you know they needed more seats for football.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of like weird stuff that he did.
46:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, and in a storied of a franchise as the Raiders are.
46:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's like they were the Oakland Raiders and they were the LA Raiders, and they moved back to Oakland, then they moved to Vegas, and it's just that's not that's not the same legacy as like the Pittsburgh Steelers.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Just isn't it?
46:29
SPEAKER_00: And don't forget, I remember there was an NFL films like when it like in the I think that was 89 or 90.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: I think out of they did like all the winning percentages of all the teams like Notre Dame and the Yankees and whoever else, the Raiders I think had the highest winning percentage of all those teams.
46:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
46:51
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Again, lots of people.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: They don't anymore because, you know, the Al ran the team into the ground, but well, that's that's another thing that maybe Art Rooney well I was gonna say Art Rooney kind of never really had a team to run into the ground for a lot of years because they're already in the ground.
47:10
SPEAKER_01: But I mean the those later Al Davis years when he was drafting Jamarcus Russell and Darius Hayward Bay and people like that, um, you know, that that's not real good on his legacy either.
47:25
SPEAKER_00: Firing uh Lane Kiffin, like oh yeah, out of basically spite.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: So we're both going with the chief on that one.
47:36
SPEAKER_00: That's probably a pretty easy pick.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: Um hot takes.
47:40
SPEAKER_00: We're doing hot takes again, Tim.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: Are you ready?
47:43
SPEAKER_00: Do you got a hit hot take?
47:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh my microphone's on fire.
47:48
SPEAKER_00: Sean McVay or Mike Tomlin.
47:52
SPEAKER_00: Ooh.
47:53
SPEAKER_00: Sean McVeigh's a bit of a football savant.
47:56
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever like, do you know, like I saw an interview one time with him, like when he was he was an assistant coach of the whatever, Washington football team or whatever they're called this week.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: Um and he was like, they would ask him, okay, what was his third and three play from week like six in this year against the Saints?
48:15
SPEAKER_00: And he'd be like, oh, okay, yeah, we were in a draw, we got two and a half yards, and I thought we should have gone for it.
48:21
SPEAKER_00: And da-da.
48:22
SPEAKER_00: It was like, oh my gosh.
48:23
SPEAKER_00: Like, he he is a football savant.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, he was not football savant enough to know not to talk to Bill Belichick before the Super Bowl, but I diegress.
48:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, he is an 80 and 52 regular season total as of right now.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: He's eight and five already in the postseason.
48:41
SPEAKER_00: He's a Super Bowl champion, youngest head coach hired, youngest to win the Super Bowl.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, he's won and lost a Super Bowl, Tim.
48:51
SPEAKER_00: He likes to make big trades, trading for um trading Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford, of course, to put him over the top to win them a Super Bowl.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, Mike Tomlin, uh, been around forever, 183, 107-2, 8-11 now in the postseason, Super Bowl champion as a head coach and an assistant coach.
49:12
SPEAKER_00: Um 18 consecutive seasons of non-losing football.
49:16
SPEAKER_00: Yay! Woo-hoo! Mike Tomlin.
49:20
SPEAKER_00: That was very sarcastic for everybody that doesn't have a good sarcasm detector.
49:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, he is the longest tenured coach of any of the big four sports now that uh the guy from San Antonio is retired.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: Um he also likes to trade players, apparently.
49:36
SPEAKER_00: So um what's saying you, Tim?
49:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, this is very close.
49:40
SPEAKER_00: I I guess of right now I'll go with McVay.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: Just he seems like he's been a little better recently than Tomlin.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, I mean, uh if you had to pick one right now, like if if I was starting a team right this second, I maybe would pick McVeigh, just like you said, from recency bias.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: If you look like over the course of their whole careers, it's so similar.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: Like they both they both had, you know, one champion, one Super Bowl they won, one Super Bowl they lost.
50:10
SPEAKER_01: They both had a really good quarterback to get them to that said championship.
50:16
SPEAKER_01: Um they both had they both have a bunch of seasons where they had you know like double digit wins but didn't win the Super Bowl.
50:28
SPEAKER_01: Um so so I I don't know.
50:30
SPEAKER_01: I I think that's really hard.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: I I think I would I would give the edge to Tomlin just because he's done it longer and he's been more consistent.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: I think as McVeigh's had a couple five or six win seasons, I think.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: He has.
50:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he has.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's had a couple of those too.
50:44
SPEAKER_00: Um and and I just for as sarcastic as I was about the non-losing season, that does say something as at least for consistency.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: It it does.
50:53
SPEAKER_01: And I know everybody's like, it doesn't care about that anymore.
50:55
SPEAKER_01: And I I get it because we don't want to play off game for so long.
50:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's still that's still pretty impressive.
51:02
SPEAKER_01: That you know, how many seasons do we have Kenny Pickett or Doc Hodges or you know, whatever, and and we're still not going in the tank.
51:13
SPEAKER_01: And um uh, you know, so so I don't know.
51:16
SPEAKER_01: I to me that's very, very, very close.
51:19
SPEAKER_01: But I would I would give the edge to Tomlin just because he's done it longer.
51:22
SPEAKER_01: I think if McVeigh coaches ten more years and and Staffordshire.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: Like gets another Super Bowl or something.
51:28
SPEAKER_01: Right, then then I would give the edge to McVeigh.
51:31
SPEAKER_01: But if he coaches ten more years and Stafford retires, I have a feeling well, number one, I don't think he's gonna do that.
51:36
SPEAKER_01: He's talked already talked about retiring.
51:39
SPEAKER_01: But but if he did that, I have a feeling he would go the way of like Chuck Noel in the 80s.
51:44
SPEAKER_01: I just that would be my prediction.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: I don't think he could keep it up um over the course of almost two decades, like Tomlin has.
51:54
SPEAKER_01: But that's all me speculating because we haven't seen it yet.
51:58
SPEAKER_00: So you're going with Tomlin.
52:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I guess.
52:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:02
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not married to that, but I'll go with Tomlin.
52:05
SPEAKER_00: I like Tomlin.
52:06
SPEAKER_00: I just think he needs to go somewhere else to have his Andy Reed part of his career.
52:12
SPEAKER_01: So that may well be the case.
52:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
52:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're gonna find out in the next couple of years, I think.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: I I it's a shame.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: It's just you know, sometimes when you're you need a fresh start, you need a fresh perspective.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean I think Mike Toddlin needs that right now.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: To to be fair, people said the exact same thing about Sidney Crosby circa 2015.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: I think it's different for a player than a coach.
52:40
SPEAKER_01: That's fair, also fair.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying it's it's there's times where you think, okay, the glory days are over, you know, and then you get surprised.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: So who knows?
52:50
SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: And I think I think the you know, the the Sidney Crosby stuff is just pure Canadian media wishful thinking.
52:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's also fair.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, next category is a category of one person.
53:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh not really, but kind of.
53:07
SPEAKER_00: It's Ben Rothelsberger versus everybody, Tim.
53:10
SPEAKER_00: He's taking on the world.
53:13
SPEAKER_00: So just for he is uh Ben Rothelsberger has two Super Bowl appearances, won one, of course, or no, no, he has three Super Bowl appearances, right?
53:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:24
SPEAKER_00: So he won two, lost one, NFL rookie of the year, two-time NFL passing championship, 500 yards passing games with four, which I still believe is a record.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, he's gonna be a Hall of Famer.
53:39
SPEAKER_00: When when's his Hall of Fame clock up?
53:41
SPEAKER_00: Like two more years?
53:43
SPEAKER_00: I think so.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:45
SPEAKER_00: So we'll start off with the obvious person that's better than him versus Tom Brady.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: Tom has I didn't look I don't know if I looked up uh Brothelsberger's interception to touchdown.
53:59
SPEAKER_00: It's pretty good though.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Tom's is the best though.
54:02
SPEAKER_00: It's 642 to 212 touchdown to interceptions.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: He is a seven times Super Bowl champ, which is insane.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: He's a five-time Super Bowl MVP, 15 Pro Bowls, five times passing interceptions, four times passing yards leader, first time all-time passing yards, first all-time passing touchdowns.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a no-brainer.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: Obviously, Tom Brady's better.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: He beat him head to head, he beats him in every category.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: It's he's won with different teams, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: Tom Brady's really good.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: This just didn't Tim.
54:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's not fair.
54:39
SPEAKER_01: It's I mean, Tom Brady versus anybody is going to be Tom Brady, so.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: Joe Montana.
54:45
SPEAKER_00: Joe Montana never lost the Super Bowl.
54:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Joe Montana is probably the only guy that I would even consider having the argument for.
54:55
SPEAKER_01: Honestly.
54:56
SPEAKER_01: I think I think Joe Montana, you could you could make an argument between Montana and Brady, and I don't think anybody else in the history of the league.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: I know you could like throw autogram in there, like that then you get into that problem of comparing like eras.
55:10
SPEAKER_01: But but I mean, my goodness, Brady just and it was over the like he wins the Super Bowl in 2001, then he went to Super Bowl in 2020.
55:19
SPEAKER_01: Like, my goodness.
55:20
SPEAKER_01: Like, uh come on, you know.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, uh Ben Rothesberger has 418 touchdowns and only 211 interceptions.
55:28
SPEAKER_00: So Ben, pretty good.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: Almost a three to one ratio there.
55:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very, very good by Ben.
55:36
SPEAKER_00: And 64,000 passing yards.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure where that puts him all time.
55:40
SPEAKER_01: But so so, Steve, let's get into some tougher comparisons maybe than that one.
55:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
55:46
SPEAKER_00: How about Ben takes on a whole team?
55:48
SPEAKER_00: A whole not whole team, a whole family.
55:51
SPEAKER_00: A whole family.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: Your whole I don't have time right now since we're doing Adam Sandler quotes, but you and your whole family's going down, O'Doyle.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: So Ben is right now saying that to the Mannings.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: You and your whole family is going down.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: So let's start with Archie Manning.
56:11
SPEAKER_00: And this is really unfair to Archie, and I I apologize to Archie Manning in advance.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: He was an SI SEC all-time team.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: He is 23,000 23,911 pass yards, 125 touchdowns, 173 interceptions.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: Hey, he's in the Saints Ring of Honor, Tim.
56:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh he has a cool song.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: Can maybe we can post that as our outro, the Archie Manning song.
56:37
SPEAKER_00: Have you heard his little Archie Manning song?
56:39
SPEAKER_01: I saw you linked it, but I did not uh listen to him.
56:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll have to put that at the end of the episode.
56:44
SPEAKER_00: It's it's quite incredible.
56:46
SPEAKER_00: Um he he really played on a lot of bad teams.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: Saints, and then he was with Houston.
56:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and they were kind of past their pride when he went to Houston.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: So um obviously Ben Rothelsberger is better than Archie Manning, and that's not really any fault of Archie Manning.
57:05
SPEAKER_01: No, and and yeah, it's it's very fair to say that Archie Manning Jack Ham used to always talk about Archie Manning.
57:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, he would have been like one of the best quarterbacks of the year.
57:17
SPEAKER_00: If you swip him and then Terry Bradshaw, he probably has a couple Super Bowls under Yeah, probably.
57:22
SPEAKER_00: Or even if you swap him and like the Raiders, yeah, you know, yeah.
57:28
SPEAKER_01: But but that's not what happened, so you can't give it to R.K.
57:32
SPEAKER_01: Manning, you gotta give it to Ben.
57:34
SPEAKER_00: Um Archie does outrank him right now on um Super Bowl MVP and champion sons.
57:41
SPEAKER_00: He is two out of three.
57:42
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if Ben Rothelsberger's sons are old enough to play football yet, but um you're you're you're you're slacking it off there, Ben.
57:50
SPEAKER_00: Get those kids into shape.
57:54
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, um Peyton.
57:58
SPEAKER_00: This is probably a little closer than I thought it would be.
58:02
SPEAKER_00: Um Peyton is a two-time Super Bowl champ, five-time NFL MVP.
58:07
SPEAKER_00: He has 539 touchdowns, 251 interceptions, um, 71,940 passing yards, three-time passing yard leader, four-time passing TD leader.
58:19
SPEAKER_00: He's in the college and pro football hall of fame.
58:23
SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
58:25
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, I guess I gotta give the edge the Peyton on this one.
58:29
SPEAKER_00: Even though I think Ben was more clutch than Peyton.
58:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would I would say Peyton's the better quarterback, but if you wanted if I had to put together a team, I would take Ben.
58:44
SPEAKER_01: Because there's a lot of playoff games where Peyton Manning just did not do what you wanted him to do.
58:51
SPEAKER_00: Um later in his career, Ben kind of suffered from that a little bit too.
58:58
SPEAKER_01: A couple of times, sure.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm thinking of the Jacksonville game, although they still scored 40 points in that Jacksonville game.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: Right.
59:06
SPEAKER_01: I think that was more of a defensive lap, but but still, you're right.
59:11
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't great in that game.
59:12
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't great in the obviously the Browns game that they lost at home in the playoffs.
59:17
SPEAKER_01: Um but that was very tail end of his career.
59:20
SPEAKER_01: I I I just think there's just a lot of games where they were like in those in this Colts era, even when he played for the Broncos and they got blown up to the first.
59:30
SPEAKER_00: That Super Bowl, yeah.
59:32
SPEAKER_00: What his first the first play of the game was like what a fumble or something.
59:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they snapped it over his head.
59:43
SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
59:44
SPEAKER_01: It just it wasn't now again.
59:46
SPEAKER_01: Ben didn't Ben had his moments too.
59:47
SPEAKER_01: Ben didn't play a great Super Bowl against the Packers.
59:50
SPEAKER_01: But I just think that Ben, like you said, Ben was more clutch.
59:53
SPEAKER_01: I'd rather have the clutch quarterback if I'm building the team.
59:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, that leads perfectly into our next Manning, which is the king of clutch.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_00: And I love this guy.
1:00:05
SPEAKER_00: I I maybe just because he beat Tom Brady twice, but he he's definitely my favorite Manning, no, no offense to the other Mannings.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't know much about Cooper.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_00: He seems like a nice enough guy.
1:00:15
SPEAKER_00: Um Eli, two-time Super Bowl MVP, two-time Super Bowl winner, um, four Pro Bowls.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_00: Now, this is where 366 touchdowns, 244 interceptions.
1:00:29
SPEAKER_00: He's very Terry Bradshaw-like.
1:00:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, 57,000 passing yards, 11th all time.
1:00:36
SPEAKER_00: I'd take Eli over Peyton if I had to win a Super Bowl.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_00: If if you told me, you know, you have to win a you have a drive to win the Super Bowl and you need a quarterback, I would definitely take Eli over Peyton.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_00: I would I might take Eli uh Eli and Ben, you know, very close together.
1:00:56
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_00: Eli, I just really like Eli.
1:01:00
SPEAKER_00: I think he's very clutch.
1:01:01
SPEAKER_00: He was always very clutch to me.
1:01:03
SPEAKER_00: And he he doesn't have the greatest stats, and he had some really bad years where he threw a lot of interceptions, but overall, you can't argue with success.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_01: Eli is underrated.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_01: He's a lot better than people remember him being.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't better than Ben.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he just wasn't.
1:01:20
SPEAKER_01: Like he those two Super Bowls aside, there were so many just garbage seasons that the Giants had.
1:01:27
SPEAKER_01: And then he lost his job at the end to, I think, Daniel Jones, was it?
1:01:31
SPEAKER_01: I can't remember who it was at the time.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_01: But but it's like yeah, uh the consistency just wasn't there for Eli.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_01: But you're right, in clutch moments, I mean nobody, you know, nobody else could beat Brady.
1:01:43
SPEAKER_01: Ben couldn't beat Brady.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh Peyton mostly couldn't beat Brady.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, who else?
1:01:50
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh just Kurt Warner couldn't beat Brady, um, Donovan McNabb.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you just go up and down the list of Russell Wilson and and Matt Ryan, and all those guys couldn't beat Brady, and Eli could.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, not enough to go on, but sure.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_00: Cooper's son Arch, have you heard of Arch?
1:02:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:02:10
SPEAKER_00: He plays for New York City Texas.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_00: He only has nine touchdowns and two interceptions.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_00: So that's right.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_00: Ben's still better than him, too.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_01: So maybe, maybe Arch will be a future stealer.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
1:02:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't oh, there you go.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_00: Um about uh Ben Rothelsberger versus Joe Flacco, a guy in the division.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_00: Joe, um, well, I don't know what he's gonna do this season.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_00: Joe Flacco's still playing weirdly enough.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know what Cleveland's doing.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_01: As a side note, as a side note, you know, as we sometimes rebroadcast these episodes um, you know, like two or three years later in our rewind series.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_01: Hey, I was I could just clip the part where you said, I don't know what Cleveland's doing, and it would be relevant for whatever time frame we post the episode in.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_00: Um but anyway, Joe Flacco's stats are 257 touchdowns, 162 interceptions, Super Bowl champ and Super Bowl MVP.
1:03:02
SPEAKER_00: He had passing TDs in a single postseason.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_00: He is 11.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_00: He's tied with that.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_00: Um I think Ben Rothelsberger is better than him.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_00: Although he did have that one really clutch pass where he threw that Hail Mary, right?
1:03:16
SPEAKER_00: Was he the one that threw Yeah in Denver, right?
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:03:19
SPEAKER_01: Joe Flacco, again, like Eli, a lot better than people will ever give him credit for and remember.
1:03:26
SPEAKER_01: And people will say, oh, the Ravens had a good defense.
1:03:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, they did, but Joe Flacco willed them the Super Bowl that year.
1:03:33
SPEAKER_01: He really did.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_01: And um, so he was really, he was a lot, again, a lot better than people probably give him credit for, but you're right, not better than Ben, sorry.
1:03:43
SPEAKER_01: And we were pretty fair to the Ravens before.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_01: So I don't feel I feel like we can say that with you know some credibility.
1:03:50
SPEAKER_00: Here you go in the Ben versus everybody category, the PS de resistance.
1:03:56
SPEAKER_00: Ben versus Aaron Rodgers.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_00: Two Steeler cornerbacks.
1:04:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh Aaron Rodgers has 503 touchdowns, 160 interceptions, 116 interceptions, Super Bowl champ, Super Bowl MVP, two-time NFL passing TD leader in a season, 62,000 passing yards, seventh all time.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_00: And I always thought uh Aaron Rodgers was the better version of Ben Rothelsberger, but that's just me.
1:04:25
SPEAKER_00: What say you, Tim?
1:04:26
SPEAKER_00: Do you think Ben's better than Aaron Rodgers?
1:04:29
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna contradict what I said earlier about Brad John Staubach, because when they did play each other in the Super Bowl, Rodgers did did beat Ben.
1:04:38
SPEAKER_01: But man, Rodgers lost a ton of playoff games where they were supposed to win a lot.
1:04:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was his whole that's been his whole career after that one super.
1:04:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's funny they brought him in to win a playoff game, and he hasn't done he's been as bad as Tomlin has in winning playoff games recently.
1:04:59
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and and and just so many games where they were playing at home or they were the number one seed, or they were and and he just didn't ever really get it done.
1:05:10
SPEAKER_01: They couldn't that what was he like owing for against even just like the 49ers alone?
1:05:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, whether that was like Kaepernick or Alex Smith or Jimmy Garoppolo or whoever, like he couldn't beat the 49ers, he couldn't beat um, you know, they lost the championship game to the Falcons one year, they lost the championship game to Brady and uh at home in 2020, like just a lot of playoff disappointments.
1:05:34
SPEAKER_01: So I uh sorry, I I gotta give it to Ben.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_01: I know Ben had, like you said, the playoff disappointments later in his career.
1:05:41
SPEAKER_01: Some of that, again, no one will ever remember this, but some of that was injury based.
1:05:46
SPEAKER_01: Um but still, I I just think, yeah, I I I'm gonna give it to Ben here.
1:05:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, well, we disagree.
1:05:54
SPEAKER_00: I think Aaron Rodgers was could scramble and throw better on the run than Ben could.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_00: And he's thrown more Way more Hail Marys.
1:06:01
SPEAKER_00: And it just but he hasn't been as clutch.
1:06:04
SPEAKER_00: Ben has been more clutch, especially in the playoffs than Aaron Rodgers.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_00: So tough call.
1:06:10
SPEAKER_00: Versus Terry Bradshaw, another Pittsburgh quarterback showdown.
1:06:14
SPEAKER_00: The four-time Super Bowl champion.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_00: 212 touchdowns to 210 interceptions.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_00: That's Terry.
1:06:22
SPEAKER_00: 27,989, 67th all-time passing yards, two times Super Bowl MVP, NFL MVP in 1978.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_00: Andy loves his TV.
1:06:34
SPEAKER_00: He's on TV.
1:06:35
SPEAKER_00: Is he retiring this year?
1:06:36
SPEAKER_00: I think soon.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_01: He's gotta be up there in years at this point.
1:06:42
SPEAKER_00: Um I'll go with Terry on this one just because he has more Super Bowl.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'll probably give it to Terry too for the same reason.
1:06:51
SPEAKER_00: Although Men has better overall stats.
1:06:54
SPEAKER_01: I mean Yeah, but Ben played in an era where, you know, the the offense was way more um favored by the roles than than Bradshaw did for most of his career.
1:07:07
SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, we said before about Terry calling his own plays.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I think if, man, if Ben would have won that Packers Super Bowl.
1:07:16
SPEAKER_00: It would be yeah, he would be so much easier to like you'd be like, oh well, he's almost as good as Brady.
1:07:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, not even you'd have been able to say, well, you know, they that team, I thought that Super Bowl was so important for them to win because they could have been the Washington team from the nineties.
1:07:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, that team that everybody forgets about that won a couple Super Bowls.
1:07:34
SPEAKER_00: But losing the the Packers really killed them, killed that narrative at least.
1:07:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it did.
1:07:41
SPEAKER_01: And I I think if he wins that Super Bowl, and then if he wins like another one later, you know, like when they when they were in the championship game in 2016 or when they were the number Well, that wasn't once again, that you know, that wasn't his fault.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_00: I remember him hitting guys in the chest with passes and they're dropping them, and then you know, Le'Veon Bell decides he doesn't want to play, you know, oh I'm hurt.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_00: It's like it was just ridiculous.
1:08:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, and that's the thing, like that era, there were so many, you know, the the year before when they lost in Denver, and our ninth string running back fumbled in the fourth quarter when we had the lead because everybody was hurt.
1:08:15
SPEAKER_01: Remember, Antonio Brown was out, yeah, and Ben had a really bad thing.
1:08:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, remember Antonio Brown was faking from the week before, just to screw over packing.
1:08:24
SPEAKER_01: Despite the Bengals, yeah, yeah.
1:08:25
SPEAKER_01: But that's what I mean.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_01: There was like everybody remembers, oh, they underachieved in that era, which you know technically they did, but people forget that there were some circumstances for each of those years.
1:08:36
SPEAKER_01: Even the Jacksonville game we just talked about, that was the Earka's ear got hurt, and that's yeah, what just destroyed destroyed the defense.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_01: So, so there I don't know.
1:08:48
SPEAKER_01: It it just it kind of stinks because Ben Ben could have won he wins that game against the Packers, and let's just say they win one Super Bowl in that, you know, Le'Veon Bell, Antonio Brown, high-powered offense era, then he's got as many Super Bowls as Terry Bradshaw, and man, you're having a totally different conversation.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_01: But that's not the way it went, so yeah, I give the edge to Terry.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
1:09:13
SPEAKER_00: And Terry is on TV because Terry's Terry, and Ben did some stuff that will keep him off TV for the rest of which you know, he does his little podcast, and good for him, and he'll be in the hall of fame soon.
1:09:27
SPEAKER_00: So it'll be nice.
1:09:28
SPEAKER_00: It'll be nice to see him get in the hall of fame.
1:09:30
SPEAKER_00: Although I think is he going in the same year as Tom Brady?
1:09:33
SPEAKER_00: I think him and Brady are going in the same year, aren't they?
1:09:36
SPEAKER_00: Which or no, Brady played one Brady.
1:09:40
SPEAKER_01: Brady played one more year after Ben.
1:09:42
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, well, at least he doesn't have to worry about that.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:09:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, uh this or that you don't have to do is between me or Tim, so because yeah, it's fine.
1:09:52
SPEAKER_00: But um thank you so much for listening.
1:09:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh check us out on all our uh podcast.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh what are we what are we on?
1:09:59
SPEAKER_00: Spotify, all the other podcast providers.
1:10:02
SPEAKER_01: Anywhere you get your podcast, you should be able to find us.
1:10:05
SPEAKER_00: I got a podcast.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_00: You got a podcast.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_00: If you reach under your seat, you'll find a podcast.
1:10:10
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, thank you so much for listening, and we're really grateful to your fans, but I everybody enjoyed it.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_00: And um we'll check catching uh next time and uh enjoy our our archie manning song as we go out here.
1:10:33
unknown: He played on the old rebel.
1:10:36
SPEAKER_02: Archie Manning is displayed.
1:10:42
SPEAKER_02: The best ever worked to ever play a game.