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The Diversity Movement in Leadership with Jackie Ferguson · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:37
  Everyone, it's Roxanne Durgesh.
• 0:38
  Thanks for tuning in again this week.
• 0:40
  Today, I have a colleague Jackie Ferguson.
• 0:42
  Jackie and I both belongs to the forms of executive councils, and we were able, and I
• 0:49
  should say I was privileged to have her as part of a a DEI, meeting that we had not too long
• 0:56
  ago, which was really, really well received.
• 0:58
  So I asked Jackie to come in So we can chat a little bit further about some of the concerns
• 1:02
  that we're seeing, around what she does in her business and diversity movement around DEI.
• 1:09
  So, Jackie, thanks so much, for coming on today and spending some time with us.
• 1:14
  Roxanne, I'm so glad to be here.
• 1:16
  Thanks for having me.
• 1:18
  So tell us, tell us a little bit about kind of, you know, Diversities, I will, you know, I'm
• 1:28
  this sounds hard, harsh, but it's the topic.
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  It's the hot topic.
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  It is.
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  Even though it shouldn't be a hot topic, but it's
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  it's
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  always so necessary.
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  And, obviously, we know what the change in times, how what a need that has been.
• 1:42
  But I wanna jump right in and not get into, you know, we know with, George Floyd, that you
• 1:48
  know, obviously, that this is something that needed to be highlighted, but it, talks took
• 1:53
  such adversity for that to happen.
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  But I was, just reading some research around McKinsey and and Deloitte, and what they're
• 2:00
  saying is The reality is everybody knows that this is necessary.
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  There's been a lot of things put out to the marketplace about things that should be done.
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  And then there's the reality of what's happening.
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  So I would like to kind of just dive in and talk a little bit about what you're seeing in
• 2:16
  reference to what's happening in the marketplace around diversity.
• 2:20
  Sure.
• 2:21
  Well, Roxanne, I think that, you know, after the murder of George Floyd and others and the
• 2:26
  spotlight on racial injustice was placed on our society.
• 2:31
  I think that organizations felt that, that push from their employees and from their consumers
• 2:39
  and clients to really step into the a realm that was new, right, with is, speaking about
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  current events and things that are happening in society and and providing them, that's the
• 2:54
  support they needed and so a lot of companies made commitments to DEI, certainly put out
• 3:02
  those diversity statements and then got into the work and realized, you know, it's hard.
• 3:09
  Right?
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  As you think about, shifting your culture, especially for companies that have been around
• 3:17
  for a while.
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  And as you think about, change leadership.
• 3:22
  Right?
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  We think about change management, but it you can't manage change in people, but you can lead
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  a change.
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  And that's hard as well.
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  And and so, you know, and and then in addition to that, on top of that, you've got the, you
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  know, dealing with people's long held beliefs a lot of times and long held behaviors which now
• 3:46
  you're encouraging the shift and all of that is hard.
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  And I think that a lot of companies didn't understand or realize or have the support that
• 3:56
  they needed to make these changes.
• 3:59
  And so you know, understanding how to implement roll out and then continue to make progress in
• 4:08
  your DEI initiatives requires, some time and expertise.
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  And so I think that a lot of companies didn't realize that and then also you don't see those
• 4:20
  changes right away Roxanne.
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  It takes time.
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  Studies show that it's about 3 years to see real progress in your DEI initiatives.
• 4:31
  Now you can see progress up through those 3 years, but to really feel that shift takes
• 4:38
  about 3 years.
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  So, you know, we're 2 years in now.
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  So for organizations that really made that commitment and and have been putting in the
• 4:48
  effort for education and change and integrating it throughout their organization, they should
• 4:54
  start seeing those those real changes now.
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  So tell me, like, if it's it's it's almost like, steps or levels.
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  Right?
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  The, oh my goodness, we're in crises.
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  To alright.
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  Let's, you know, have a DEI, you know, support person to a maybe a DEI officer to now, how
• 5:20
  does this kinda fit into our overall strategic plan?
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  So what might people experience?
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  Let's say people went into crisis, which I think everybody did, you know, with George
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  Floyd.
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  What would be the difference that if let's say I'm a novice, I have no idea.
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  I'm thinking about starting to join a company, and I wanna make the best decision about where
• 5:43
  my, strengths and my leverage and what I value being diversity and inclusion.
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  I've tried I'm trying to decide which company to go with.
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  So if I'm meeting the person at the initial and I'm meeting the person in the middle and I'm
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  meeting the person that's really kinda at the last quarter mile, let's say.
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  What what should I be kind of looking for at these different stages?
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  Yeah.
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  The most important thing to get started is to make sure that you've got the buy in from your
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  C suite and understand the benefit to DEI, successful DEI to your organization.
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  So if you think about C suite, of course, everyone thinks about the CEO.
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  Right?
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  So there are studies that show Roxanne the difference in profitability, which matters to
• 6:32
  your CEO.
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  Right?
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  Profitability is important.
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  Right there around happy employees, employees that feel valued and feel, a sense of belonging
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  at the organization.
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  If you think about your CFO, they they do a lot around compliance and risk Right?
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  And if you've got a strong DEI program, you're avoiding some of these, harassment claims and,
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  you know, discrimination claims.
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  When you're thinking about marketing, so your CMO, you're you're gonna think about, your
• 7:08
  brand reputation.
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  Expanding your market reach to include more diverse people, which is how our society is
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  trending.
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  Right?
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  We're more diverse than we ever have been before.
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  And, you know, in the next, I would say, 5 to 7 years, the shift will change to where,
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  culturally diverse people will be more than than non culturally diverse people.
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  And so how are you managing that from from a marketing standpoint and making sure that
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  you're messaging those folks that, you know, have different habits, right, even Gen Z coming
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  into the workplace.
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  You've gotta think about them.
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  From a employee perspective and also from a market reach perspective.
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  And they wanna know that the organizations that they work for in support have those same value
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  alignments that they do, because that's extremely important to them.
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  So as you go through your C suite, you need to know what message resonates with each of those
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  folks And then from there, you wanna make sure that your DEI strategy is integrated within
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  your organization, your full organization.
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  And Roxanne, the way to do that is to understand your your, analytics for DEI.
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  So understanding how to measure the sentiment going into your DEI program of your employees.
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  You know, people that are very excited about it and, you know, certainly after all that
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  occurred in the summer of 2020, you know, a lot of organizations that were excited about, you
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  know, implementing these programs thought that their full, you know, employee base was also as
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  excited as they were, and and a lot of them found out that was not the case.
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  So understanding what that really looks like, how to communicate is important, and then
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  understand what you're measuring, what you should be measuring, so that you can create a
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  good baseline for where you're really starting.
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  Right?
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  A lot of times executives think they understand the sentiment of their employees, right, but
• 9:19
  sometimes that can be off.
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  And so you wanna understand what you've really got, where you're really starting, and then
• 9:27
  create your plan based on where your organization is.
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  And there is not a one size fits all plan.
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  Each organization is different.
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  The way they communicate is different.
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  The way their culture is built is different.
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  And so it's a, you know, It's a one company at a time, you know, one step at a time situation.
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  You know, I'm curious, right, and when you said, of course, the business you know, the
• 9:52
  business strategy, if you're speaking to marketing, speaking their terms, if you're
• 9:56
  talking to finance, speaking numbers, this the CEO, you give a synthesis of every kind of, you
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  know, lines that you need him or her to to to get.
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  Absolutely.
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  You know, what I'm curious about though is when you have a diverse C suite versus, maybe a more
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  homogeneous C suite.
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  How is that?
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  Because I I would find that quite fascinating because, like, for instance, like, I'm from
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  Trinidad and Tobago.
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  So I'm I grew up diverse.
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  Right?
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  Like, I grew up with every color of the rainbow.
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  Like, one friend was Chinese.
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  The other was, you know, European, then there's me, then there's you know, half, you know,
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  African, half Chinese, half Indian.
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  So every I'll say that we were always the rainbow because of the diversity that went to
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  the island.
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  So when you get around someone that's diverse, there's a certain permeation that happens just
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  because you know, their their mindset is different to begin with.
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  I've always thought of differences being normal.
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  Mhmm.
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  Absolutely.
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  You know, I'm cure I'm curious when you've worked with C Suites where there's been a more
• 11:02
  homogeneity where it's kinda like, okay, let's let's think about these concepts.
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  Let's think about innovation.
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  Let's think about diversity of thoughts let's think about how we can bring a different
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  perspective.
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  That's one thing.
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  But when you already have the diversity in that room, how does that play out?
• 11:19
  Yeah.
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  That's that's a a great question.
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  And Roxanne, I love that you brought up that you grew up in in a diverse society.
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  Not everyone has that benefit.
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  So a lot of times people are starting in different places, understanding how to just
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  communicate and interact with people that are different than they are.
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  And so, you know, starting there, what what you'll wanna do, from an organization that's
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  homogeneous versus one that has the benefit of being diverse.
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  The the one thing that I I'd like to say is that diversity is broad.
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  So when we think about diversity, very often we're thinking about race or gender or sexual
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  orientation, but personality is a an aspect of diversity.
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  Disability is an aspect of diversity, and disability is a is a part of, the, you know,
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  the diversity dimension that any of us can become a part of at any point in our lives
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  through age, accident, diagnosis.
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  And so for organizations, you know, the the employees and the prospective employees that
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  are coming into those organizations want to feel comfortable that they, you know, will get
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  that support and and be allowed to thrive even as their life changes.
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  Right?
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  Parental status is, you know, an aspect of diversity.
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  And you want an organization that can move with you as you go through your life.
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  And I think that's one of the reasons why there's so much movement, in your employee base
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  and so much turnover because they're they're looking for that home and that sense of
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  belonging.
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  But for organizations, Roxanne that are diverse, studies show and a lot of studies show
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  in so many different aspects that that diversity of thought, that diversity of
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  experience, that diversity of, you know, how you solve problems benefits an organization
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  from a, revenue standpoint, from an innovation standpoint, from a creativity standpoint, from
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  that sense of belonging standpoint, because when you see diversity at the top, those middle
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  managers, those individual contributors can see that There is a trajectory for them to succeed
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  and grow within that organization and they work harder and they look for those those stretch
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  assignments Whereas when you see all of the same, those culturally diverse people that are
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  in your your middle wrongs, you know, it's It's frustrating for them because they're they're
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  not sure how high they can move within that organization.
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  And I often say that sometimes my Caribbean upbringing gave me a different mindset because
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  I thought anything was possible.
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  So I, you know, So, of course, I have, they think Middle Eastern, but mostly Indian
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  background from India with a indentured laborers, which you know, so the trajectory of
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  what's happened with slavery and into denture laborers, many other than supposedly promise of
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  land, really there was A lot the the conditions were harsh at best for my ancestors.
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  But the thing is what happened in order to survive, and this is the history with the
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  Caribbean, and I any Caribbean people listening, they're probably gonna say I'm
• 14:39
  botching it up, but there was this element of that you had in order to survive, you had to
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  embrace different.
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  So there's that mindset that comes from the Caribbean in that, you know, you may be Hindu
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  or Muslim or black or Chinese or Middle Eastern, you know, after a while, you know, we
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  we turned out the term as kaoalou in a way, which is a a dish.
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  It's a dish.
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  But it's really a blending of everything.
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  And that cool concept that, well, my brother could be black or he could be white, even
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  though there was the backdrop of colonialism.
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  Mhmm.
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  Right.
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  And so when I came to Canada when I was sixteen to go to school, And then people would say,
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  well, I can't do that.
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  And I'm like, well, well, why why can't you do that?
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  Why couldn't you, you know, go on and do X Y OZ at university?
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  Because Oh, that doesn't happen.
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  So it was a mindset, that was a bit different, even though that we have the same backdrop, So
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  again, culture, like to your point, acculturation, potentially what my exposure was
• 15:46
  say, versus growing up in North America as well.
• 15:51
  Absolutely Roxanne.
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  And, you know, the thing that is so pervasive and insidious the narratives that not only are
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  told about us, but are are shared to us and and are part of us where, you know, we've gotta
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  really work to break through that in order to believe as in ourselves to achieve as much as
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  we can because there's so much that's told to us that we're we're not good enough.
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  We we can't succeed.
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  We can't do these things.
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  And especially here in the United States, systems are set up that create disadvantage for
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  us.
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  And so the combination of all of those things, it's frustrating, you know, and and it's you
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  know, it's a it's a pervasive negativity that we really have to work to one overcome for
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  ourselves.
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  But 2, overcome in society because there are so many of us that are doing amazing things, have
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  wonderful things to contribute.
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  And because we, you know, see ourselves in these these boxes, Right?
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  It it makes it difficult to branch out and be able to understand other perspectives which is
• 17:13
  something that you had the benefit of growing up in a a multicultural society.
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  You know, there were lots of perspectives, lots of ideas, that were shared.
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  And there's just a different level of comfort in growing up that way versus having to now
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  understand that and embrace that.
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  It's it's a little challenging, and a little scary.
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  Sometimes, to be honest, for, organizational leaders that are doing it for the first time.
• 17:46
  Absolutely.
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  And having those conversations, I said, if you grow up and you're imbued in Dur diversity, you
• 17:52
  think, well, why is this an issue?
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  My my friends, from Trinidad, and we still get on the line, and we're like, why they, you
• 17:59
  know, it's so different.
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  Even though we know this systemic underpinnings, absolutely.
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  Yes.
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  And that existed in Trinidad as well.
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  But I think because, you know, my my prime minister was black, my dentist was Chinese, my
• 18:14
  position was Indian, And so it didn't matter where you went.
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  Right?
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  Like, I mean, you were consistently around it.
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  And then if you meet someone from my island, you'll know it's a trinity.
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  Like, we joke around because we have the same way of thinking again, but it's all different
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  cultures, right, like, and ethnicity.
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  So it shows you And when I speak about, authenticity, I talk about just going from the
• 18:37
  heart because ultimately, you know, that's the space that we we all want that space within,
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  you know, whether, we're out with our children or we're running a company or we're on teens.
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  What is it?
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  I just want, to be uniquely who I am.
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  And if you can't have a conversation about who I am and you were to see me, visibly, you know,
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  you're gonna treat me differently not knowing my background.
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  So you take someone just like me that say was born in the US.
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  Our realities have been completely different in so many ways.
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  So I think that's what I talk about is you know, getting comfortable enough to have the
• 19:17
  conversation to say, hey, Jackie.
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  Where are you where are you from?
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  You know?
• 19:21
  Yeah.
• 19:22
  You know, or, you know, tell me a bit about you.
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  How did you grow up?
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  Did you have a big family, a small family?
• 19:27
  Did you, you know, what are the things that make you you?
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  And I think to your point, if you have people that are comfortable to get there, that's one
• 19:34
  thing.
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  But if you're just kind of stepping into it and it's a recipe, That's a whole other thing.
• 19:40
  And there's a lot of tiptoeing around things that eventually when people come from the
• 19:45
  heart, it's it's easier to get to.
• 19:48
  I I love that.
• 19:49
  And authenticity is such an important word in this work Roxanne because ultimately everything
• 19:57
  that you're doing is establishing a relationship of trust.
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  And you have to be authentic in your relationships When when I ask you how you're
• 20:07
  doing, I really mean it.
• 20:08
  I wanna know how you're doing.
• 20:10
  It's not something that I'm just checking off my list.
• 20:14
  Right?
• 20:14
  And and you have to also be vulnerable yourself.
• 20:17
  So if you're looking for information about me and and want me to share with you, then you
• 20:23
  should share with me.
• 20:24
  And so that's something that give and take is so important.
• 20:27
  And it's important for, individuals who don't have that experience with multicultural
• 20:34
  societies to really, you know, become comfortable with.
• 20:39
  So that they can have those open dialogues and learn some new things and see the world through
• 20:46
  other perspectives because we all see through our own, you know, lens of experience.
• 20:51
  Right?
• 20:51
  And so to really be able to be a person who is empathetic And and that's part of the work in
• 20:59
  DEI, whether it's in, you know, your communities or in your, corporations.
• 21:07
  You you've gotta open and broaden your perspective a little bit, and you certainly can
• 21:12
  do that well through conversations.
• 21:15
  So again, authenticity is such an important word, in this work.
• 21:20
  And, you know, and music, right, like, you know, I think about the things that cut through
• 21:24
  our souls.
• 21:25
  Right?
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  So, obviously, going back again to my history, there's Calypso.
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  Right?
• 21:29
  Well, Calypso and carnival, which is, you know, came out of it came out as, basically slavery.
• 21:35
  Right?
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  So I pay it, you know, I'm the typical Caribbean kid.
• 21:39
  I play steel pan.
• 21:40
  Right?
• 21:40
  So I grew up, you know, and they you guys call it, a band.
• 21:44
  We call it a side.
• 21:45
  So I grew up playing the steel drums.
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  I came to Canada.
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  I I toured Canada with my high school, went to the parliament buildings when I was thirteen
• 21:55
  years old.
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  And we did a cultural exchange was everything from African dance to, combination of choirs I
• 22:03
  played, you know, Haban Nagila along with, you know, the Canadian anthem on the steel Yeah.
• 22:10
  Right.
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  So, you know, so when you kinda start to look at it from there, and I I often say my lens is
• 22:17
  that what an opportunity because it's it's, you know, when you meet somebody that is not like
• 22:23
  you, there's such wealth within them, but but oftentimes that space of I don't know what to
• 22:29
  ask or I don't know how to be if you can just be yourself and open up your heart, which is
• 22:35
  like what you said is core fundamental of getting to trust, which is I wanna feel good on
• 22:41
  the inside just like you.
• 22:43
  Yes.
• 22:43
  But that takes that takes work and time and metrics has to get out of the wind.
• 22:48
  Taxi tactics have to find its spot and the bottom line and and boards and all that stuff
• 22:55
  gets mixed up in there.
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  But, you know, I I think cutting through it to get to who are you, And how is it that I can
• 23:03
  help you shine through so you can just let me understand who you are is what I see as being
• 23:08
  very, very important.
• 23:09
  And music is a good way to do that.
• 23:11
  You know?
• 23:12
  Absolutely.
• 23:13
  And, you know, that's so great, Roxanne, because ultimately in order to do this work,
• 23:18
  you've gotta find the baseline that people can all agree on.
• 23:22
  Right?
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  And people love music.
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  That's a that's a a great way to find that you know, let's where where is the point of
• 23:30
  agreement?
• 23:31
  And for DEI, that point of agreement usually is Do you believe that people are entitled to be
• 23:39
  respected?
• 23:40
  Feel safe and feel that their contributions are valued at work, and you usually, you're gonna
• 23:46
  get a yes there.
• 23:48
  So from there, that's where the work starts, no matter where people are on that spectrum of
• 23:54
  having experience location level is on that diversity journey.
• 24:03
  That is the fundamental baseline that people can agree on.
• 24:08
  And then the work begins from there.
• 24:11
  So at the 3rd stage of, like you said, the year 3, I would assume that that foundation has been
• 24:18
  built.
• 24:18
  So I guess I'm gonna assume policies are in alignment.
• 24:22
  You're gonna have some basic communication capacity.
• 24:25
  You're gonna start with your C suite, like you said.
• 24:27
  And then obviously, then you're gonna go to middle management, you know, in front line.
• 24:31
  You're gonna of course, that takes a lot of time because you gotta kinda work off the kinks
• 24:36
  between every level.
• 24:38
  So Let's say you're a a senior leader or a CEO listening to this and you're thinking, I think
• 24:46
  we do some of it.
• 24:49
  Mhmm.
• 24:50
  We have touch points.
• 24:52
  What would your advice be to someone like that to say what I I'm listening to Jackie and
• 24:57
  Roxanne.
• 24:57
  I'm realizing how many things we have attempted or some of it that we've done well, but boy,
• 25:01
  we've dropped the ball And it's not because we're really not trying, but it's because we're
• 25:06
  not aware of some of the things that we should be keeping our eye eye on.
• 25:09
  What what would you say to someone like that?
• 25:12
  Absolutely.
• 25:12
  So a couple of things that Roxanne down.
• 25:14
  1, you're gonna be chasing progress over perfection.
• 25:20
  You're not gonna get it all right.
• 25:22
  You're not gonna hit the mark on every single initiative in your DEI journey that you want.
• 25:28
  And that's okay.
• 25:29
  The most important thing is to be authentic, as you said, be vulnerable and share communication
• 25:37
  throughout what you're doing, why you're doing it, what's been the progress, whether it's big
• 25:43
  progress, small progress, no progress.
• 25:45
  Us.
• 25:46
  What, you know, what are some of the things that you're gonna change?
• 25:48
  What are some of the things that you're gonna try?
• 25:50
  That communication is key throughout your entire DEI journey because you've gotta gain
• 25:57
  buy in from C suite to your middle managers, which are very important part of the process,
• 26:03
  because they ensure you know, that DEI strategy is rolled out day to day and acted upon by your
• 26:10
  individual contributors.
• 26:12
  And, you know, so then measuring is so important because, again, even small movement,
• 26:21
  can have exponential value to your organization from what that means from, a productivity
• 26:28
  standpoint, from an innovation standpoint, you know, from a a cohesiveness standpoint.
• 26:35
  And so you're gonna wanna make sure that you're measuring everything from your diversity data
• 26:42
  to your equity, equity policies.
• 26:47
  For example, if you look at your HR policies, you know, many of those policies have been
• 26:53
  pulled in from, you know, other organizations or the organization you worked in before.
• 26:58
  It's been the same, you know, time off policy for 20 years.
• 27:04
  Right?
• 27:04
  But those policies need to be reviewed because You know, our families look different.
• 27:10
  Our, you know, our lifestyles are different.
• 27:14
  The things that we're responsible for are different.
• 27:17
  And we wanna make sure that those policies are reflective of, you know, who we are as
• 27:24
  individuals and as families that are part of the organization.
• 27:28
  And then, you know, the inclusion piece is so important in making sure that you are creating
• 27:35
  that, culture where people feel valued and they feel safe, which is you think that's su
• 27:44
  fundamental But a lot of employees, especially who are part of the LGBTQ plus, community don't
• 27:52
  feel safe in there are places of work.
• 27:55
  And so those are some of the the basics that you wanna be communication measurements so
• 28:01
  important.
• 28:02
  And then once you get to that year 3, you'll be able to see real progress and then determine,
• 28:08
  okay, where do we wanna dig in from here?
• 28:10
  These are things that are going right.
• 28:12
  These are things that we've not been super successful at yet.
• 28:16
  Let's, you know, do some remix of of what our plans and strategies are.
• 28:21
  And, you know, dig into this new, this new paradigm.
• 28:26
  But again, DEI is a journey.
• 28:28
  You're never gonna get to the finish line.
• 28:32
  It's continual.
• 28:33
  It's a process.
• 28:34
  It has to do with people, and people are evolving, you know, and our societies thing.
• 28:40
  And so you've gotta just maintain, your commitment to that to that journey.
• 28:46
  You know what?
• 28:46
  It just came to me, and I just think I'm listening to you.
• 28:49
  You know, what about, you know, the stories in reference to the business units?
• 28:55
  Mhmm.
• 28:55
  And sharing that as you as let's say you're you're making progress.
• 28:59
  And from a marketing perspective, if you could do a pre and a post and a process, right, and
• 29:06
  show it in reference to outcome.
• 29:07
  I I think how how beautiful would that be if you kinda looked at it and you looked at how
• 29:12
  you shifted the impact you had, how it touched all the different parts of the business units
• 29:17
  in the business, and then ultimately what it did to your business out there in in in kind of
• 29:22
  the world.
• 29:23
  That would be a beautiful kind of thing in reference to marketing.
• 29:26
  Yeah.
• 29:26
  Roxanne, that's absolutely right.
• 29:28
  And, again, that story should be told that communication should occur internally.
• 29:33
  It should occur externally because if you're thinking about, you know, your existing
• 29:38
  employees, They wanna know, you know, what are we doing?
• 29:42
  You know, we've got these extra things that we've gotta learn, and we've gotta implement,
• 29:47
  and we've gotta do so what's the progress that we're making as a whole?
• 29:52
  And then also the external communication is equally important from, you know, your your
• 29:58
  brand reputation, from how you're recruiting, you know, the best and the brightest who are
• 30:04
  prioritizing DEI and the companies that they wanna work for.
• 30:08
  And so that communication piece is so important and share those stories share your progress,
• 30:15
  share your wins, share the things that haven't gone well that, you know, you're gonna try a
• 30:20
  different way.
• 30:21
  That is all part of that authenticity, Roxanne, that
• 30:25
  you know.
• 30:25
  That transparency.
• 30:26
  That transparency.
• 30:27
  Right?
• 30:27
  Like, you talked a little bit about narratives and narratives are based on mindsets.
• 30:32
  And I think, you know, the part that I think about is, like, if you when, I shouldn't say
• 30:38
  if, and I believe that most companies wanna do this, when you start to make that shift and you
• 30:44
  create that as evolutionary story about what you created based on what you've been exposed
• 30:50
  to.
• 30:50
  Like, I I always go back.
• 30:51
  You can't go back to not knowing.
• 30:53
  And then you you let people know as you go along, and then you ask for feedback.
• 30:58
  Obviously, in whatever way that works for your organization, the the breadth and depth that
• 31:03
  you can get to.
• 31:04
  And even for things that you think you're doing well, And then you realize, boy, that's not
• 31:08
  working so well because people are going along and they're being complicit, but in fact, it's
• 31:13
  it's it's maybe helping 45% of the people, but not the other 65 to tweak those things become
• 31:19
  very, very important.
• 31:20
  And I think, you know, you know, the stories, the the how you seeing the brand, how people
• 31:26
  are perceiving you, how, you know, across from the, you know, lunch table.
• 31:32
  Now if people are back together at work, able to talk about it versus thinking, oh, well, I
• 31:37
  can't ask Roxanne that because I'm not sure she's gonna say that.
• 31:40
  And maybe I'm gonna you know, maybe I'm gonna put her off because if you're coming from a
• 31:44
  place of I'm just a normal human being that really, really, wants to know who you are,
• 31:50
  Jackie, that that comes across from a a different deeper, deeper soul space as well.
• 31:56
  Absolutely.
• 31:57
  And Roxanne, you know, that made me think of growth mindset, right, We, as leaders, have to
• 32:03
  have a growth mindset in order to move our organizations into, you know, this next 10
• 32:10
  years.
• 32:12
  You know, we have to create sustainable business and part of creating sustainable
• 32:16
  business.
• 32:17
  Is understanding the shifts and the trends that are occurring in society and, you know, trends
• 32:24
  in how, you know, we work trends and how, you know, we absorb data and information trends in,
• 32:33
  you know, what we do, in our downtime.
• 32:36
  Those things change over time.
• 32:38
  Right?
• 32:38
  And one of the examples that I use so often is blockbuster.
• 32:42
  Right?
• 32:42
  And I'm a a genxer, And I remember spending my Friday night at Blockbuster getting my, you
• 32:49
  know, 2 new releases in my skittles.
• 32:51
  Right?
• 32:52
  And now, you know, the the situation that occurred was that Netflix went to blockbuster,
• 32:58
  and blockbuster said, no.
• 33:00
  That's that's not gonna change.
• 33:01
  Right?
• 33:02
  And unfortunately, that's what happens with some leaders now around DEI.
• 33:08
  I don't know that I have to get into DEI.
• 33:11
  Right?
• 33:12
  And so and but, unfortunately, for them, you know, that that is going to create issues with
• 33:18
  longevity of their business because You know, again, with gen z coming into the workplace,
• 33:25
  where they wanna work, the brands they wanna patronize, have to be really aligned with their
• 33:30
  values differently than any other generation before.
• 33:34
  And so to create sustainable business, you have to have that growth mindset and DEI as part of
• 33:41
  that.
• 33:42
  And I think, you know, a lot of companies have been successful without the strategy in the
• 33:47
  past for them to be aware that it's it's looking at your point is if diversity and
• 33:54
  inclusion, we're knowing that, like you said, the the demographic of the world is shifting.
• 33:59
  And I know definitely the US probably the same.
• 34:04
  So if that's the case, you can you can look at it and say, oh, well, we've been successful, or
• 34:08
  you can say, okay.
• 34:09
  What has it done I need to be aware of.
• 34:11
  And if I'm not so good at collating the information, what pulses do I have to get make
• 34:17
  sure we have out there so that things are coming back to us that maybe we're not even
• 34:22
  thinking about.
• 34:23
  And I think sometimes the gen zeds are the best for that.
• 34:26
  In that they they they're, like, thinking in such a different way.
• 34:29
  And talking to younger generations, it's sometimes, I think, wow, how How do you think
• 34:33
  like that?
• 34:34
  Because they have such a different perspective.
• 34:37
  Right?
• 34:37
  So I think it's, like, you you're right.
• 34:39
  Diversity of thought comes in packaged in so many different ways.
• 34:45
  So it's not just a racialized.
• 34:47
  That's obviously the one that's the biggest one that's imminent, but it's it's all around us,
• 34:52
  but ultimately it's understanding that individual and what what they're gonna bring
• 34:56
  with them regardless of how what diversity, whether it's invisible or visible that they're
• 35:01
  they're bringing, out there to to the workplace.
• 35:04
  Absolutely, Roxanne.
• 35:05
  That's well said.
• 35:07
  So I know you and I can probably keep chatting.
• 35:11
  Now for people that are interested and are thinking, well, we're at different point like
• 35:16
  Jackie's saying that they're wanting to, maybe reach out to consult, kind of know where
• 35:22
  they're at.
• 35:22
  Where where's the best place, Jackie, for them to
• 35:24
  get ahold of you?
• 35:26
  Certainly.
• 35:26
  So you can go to the diversity movement.com and just reach out to us there.
• 35:32
  It'll give you lots of great information, for free.
• 35:37
  You can you can go to our webinars.
• 35:39
  We do webinars every month.
• 35:41
  We provide lots of free content that will help you on your journey.
• 35:45
  And then you can certainly reach out to us, and we can talk to you about what might be right
• 35:50
  for your organization.
• 35:51
  And, again, every organization is different.
• 35:54
  There is not a cookie cutter approach, so We'd love an opportunity to just have a conversation
• 35:59
  with you, see what your goals are, and and help you work towards them.
• 36:03
  Well, thanks so much again.
• 36:05
  So what what are the what am I walk walking away with?
• 36:08
  I'm walking away with.
• 36:09
  It's It's not perfection, it's progress.
• 36:12
  Now look at where you're at, tell the stories, like we talked a little bit about And, you
• 36:19
  know, as the leader or, part of the C suite, think what is it that I can bring forward that
• 36:26
  might help others, even though I'm thinking I may not be diverse.
• 36:30
  It may be something that you've experienced when you're out there in the world and you
• 36:34
  think, wow, this is something I'd never thought about.
• 36:36
  Bring it back have that open conversation.
• 36:40
  And I think we all have to be open to the fact that we're gonna learn till the day we die.
• 36:45
  So just be recognizing that wherever you go, if it if it's an experience in the world or, you
• 36:51
  know, seeing someone interact differently, bring it back, have conversations about it.
• 36:56
  And because ultimately, like we said, all we wanna do as human beings is to have that
• 37:00
  experience of being accepted there.
• 37:02
  We wanna be valued.
• 37:03
  We want our lights to shine and allow that space within your companies and, reach out to
• 37:09
  Jackie if that's something that you're wanting.
• 37:12
  With myself, you know, I talk about authenticity.
• 37:15
  I talk about, my book, the ROR, which is the return on relationships is about to be
• 37:21
  released.
• 37:22
  So if you're wanting to know about, authenticity in your relationships, just go to
• 37:27
  roxanderahodge.comforward/ quiz with 1 q 11 zed.
• 37:31
  Sorry.
• 37:32
  And it'll pop you right into a little assessment.
• 37:34
  We'll send you some information Again, Jackie, thanks so much.
• 37:37
  And take care, everyone.
• 37:39
  We'll chat with you soon.
• 37:40
  K.
• 37:40
  Bye bye.
• 37:41
  Bye.
• 37:43
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 37:48
  healthy change.
• 37:49
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 37:56
  rocksandirhaj.com/blueprint.
• 38:00
  We'll see you next time.
• 38:01
  On authentic living with Roxanne.