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Women and Gardening: In Bloom · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Okay, this is Annie and Smitha and welcome to stuff.
0:08
Speaker 1: Never told you apprecsion to buy her radio, and.
0:19
Speaker 2: Welcome to a new episode. And because I am on
0:22
Speaker 2: my kick about gardening. And by the way, quick update
0:26
Speaker 2: my tomato plants. They're not doing great any No one
0:30
Speaker 2: of them look really bad. I'm very sad about the situation.
0:33
Speaker 1: I am too because I wanted some of those tomatoes.
0:36
Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong. I've got four more and they're okay,
0:40
Speaker 2: but this one failure is really starting to hurt my feelings.
0:44
Speaker 2: And I will say though, my peppers look really good.
0:47
Speaker 2: The herbs are looking nice. I got a lot of
0:50
Speaker 2: basil this year. We got different variations, by the way.
0:53
Speaker 2: I have some Thai basil, some purple basil, some lemon basil, okay,
0:58
Speaker 2: and then the radio basil. Yeah basil. So at the
1:01
Speaker 2: very least I would have basil. I don't know. I'm
1:02
Speaker 2: gonna put it in ice cream and such, put it
1:04
Speaker 2: in on like strawberries and like whipped cream. It's my
1:07
Speaker 2: favorite thing. And I've discovered I think we have boys
1:11
Speaker 2: and berries in our backyard, not blackberries because they're not
1:15
Speaker 2: as big. And I was like, oh, but I have
1:18
Speaker 2: to fight the animals and and bugs for these, so
1:22
Speaker 2: like the squirrels and the birds, so I don't get
1:25
Speaker 2: a lot same thing with our faces, essentially like they
1:30
Speaker 2: went out because they eat parts of it, and you
1:32
Speaker 2: know you can't eat parts of it. Yeah, Dan animals anyway,
1:36
Speaker 2: But with that, I thought we would take a look
1:39
Speaker 2: at gardening and women, and this is a very very
1:44
Speaker 2: condensed episode with that, So just think of this as
1:47
Speaker 2: an introduction to a very big episode that I will
1:50
Speaker 2: not make a multi part episode because I haven't thought
1:55
Speaker 2: of it, although I could. I think we are going
1:58
Speaker 2: to come back with later subjects about things because they
2:01
Speaker 2: these conversations, especially when it comes to gardening, when it
2:04
Speaker 2: comes to growing, cultivating, and using lands, is very intersectional,
2:09
Speaker 2: is very political, and it's a lot of activism and empowerment.
2:13
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of conversation we can have about that.
2:15
Speaker 2: We can talk about the suffragettes and the gardening club.
2:18
Speaker 2: I do not talk about gardening club in this episode,
2:20
Speaker 2: So if you are a part of one, or if
2:21
Speaker 2: you wanted me to get into it, not in this one.
2:24
Speaker 2: We've probably come back because there's a long history of
2:27
Speaker 2: garden clubs and what that kind of represent and how
2:30
Speaker 2: affluent it was and it is still but also with that,
2:34
Speaker 2: how it turned into an empowerment thing. So that's the
2:38
Speaker 2: caveat We are focusing a little specific on these conversations
2:43
Speaker 2: because again I'm really caught up in vegetables right now
2:46
Speaker 2: and herbs edible things. Although I've got some really pretty
2:50
Speaker 2: wild roses. One died that I was already here at
2:55
Speaker 2: the house. I'm very unhappy about the situation and I
2:58
Speaker 2: don't know what's happening this year. And then we have
3:01
Speaker 2: some that my partner's mother sent for us to have,
3:05
Speaker 2: so she gives us little starters and they were really
3:08
Speaker 2: pretty purple flowers and we have some lilies as well,
3:11
Speaker 2: so a lot of good stuff. But with that, I
3:14
Speaker 2: focus a little more on vegetable so I feel like
3:15
Speaker 2: if I can eat it, that's my reward. It's a reward,
3:19
Speaker 2: and I need that reward, even though the flowers are pretty.
3:22
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and there's just something about like growing something
3:25
Speaker 1: and then getting to eat it.
3:27
Speaker 2: I don't know, making a master like level of a
3:30
Speaker 2: caprici salad. Yes, yeah, that's one of my favorite things. Anyway,
3:35
Speaker 2: I'm apparently hungry going moving on, so guardling here, we're
3:39
Speaker 2: going to specifically again talk about guarding and not farming,
3:42
Speaker 2: which is not true. We are going to talk a
3:43
Speaker 2: little bit about farming, but we're not going to go
3:46
Speaker 2: in depth because when it comes to farming, there's a
3:48
Speaker 2: lot of politics behind that as well that we're not
3:50
Speaker 2: necessarily going into. Although the differences are small in my note,
3:56
Speaker 2: it comes down to really size, quantity, and production. So
3:59
Speaker 2: that's why I'm saying gardening instead of farming, because we
4:02
Speaker 2: are talking more about the small scales. Even though when
4:06
Speaker 2: we talk about some of the gardening, because we are
4:07
Speaker 2: going to mention about indigenous women and the enslaved peoples
4:10
Speaker 2: and what they brought to the US specifically and how
4:14
Speaker 2: they really influenced gardening today, this does obviously lead to
4:20
Speaker 2: actual farming and agriculture and productions. But again, like I said,
4:24
Speaker 2: we're just kind of staying away from that. We are
4:26
Speaker 2: going to come back and have a bigger conversation about
4:28
Speaker 2: farming and women and farming. I do believe Any just
4:30
Speaker 2: told me that there is an episode about farmer Jane
4:34
Speaker 2: and their history. But I want to talk a little more,
4:38
Speaker 2: especially with recent stuff coming out also about sustainability and
4:43
Speaker 2: all of that. Because it's a big So we'll go
4:45
Speaker 2: back to that at a later time, but again today
4:49
Speaker 2: we'll stick to gardening. And USDA seem to qualify farms
4:52
Speaker 2: by this definition any place from which one thousand dollars
4:56
Speaker 2: or more of agricultural products were produced and sold. So
5:00
Speaker 2: obviously I'm not gonna make a thousand dollars off my
5:02
Speaker 2: small four by six feet garden.
5:07
Speaker 1: You never know one day.
5:10
Speaker 2: Maybe Also included in farming are animals, although some argue
5:16
Speaker 2: those who say have gardens may also have some chickens
5:19
Speaker 2: or goats roaming about as well. I would like some
5:22
Speaker 2: highland cows. Please, somebody give me some highland cows. Really,
5:27
Speaker 2: they're so cute. I know there could be smelly, but
5:30
Speaker 2: also you could bathe them. Apparently there's places that you
5:33
Speaker 2: can go to where you can bathe and groom highland cows.
5:36
Speaker 1: Okay, how do you think Peaches would react to a
5:39
Speaker 1: highland cow?
5:40
Speaker 2: She would be scared of them, so that's the good news.
5:42
Speaker 2: So she wouldn't invess with them.
5:45
Speaker 1: Okay, Peaches, that's Samantha's dog. I always feel like people
5:49
Speaker 1: know this, but just to me.
5:50
Speaker 2: Just because Peaches will go after smaller animals. But the
5:54
Speaker 2: first time that they like, a cat has smacked her
5:57
Speaker 2: in the face and she was like, oh, I'm afraid
5:59
Speaker 2: for all cats. Now, okay, so you know it's according
6:02
Speaker 2: to how tough they are. Again, go back to so,
6:05
Speaker 2: for the sake of this very simplified definition, we are
6:08
Speaker 2: stinking with just gardens for the most parts, with a
6:10
Speaker 2: little conversation about how agriculture really came to play in
6:15
Speaker 2: the US. So and for the most part we are
6:18
Speaker 2: talking about all kinds including veggie, fruits, flowers, herbs, and
6:21
Speaker 2: so much more. A little less flowers, although it is
6:25
Speaker 2: going to be like in this conversation because they do
6:28
Speaker 2: talk about how different gardens have both and how they
6:32
Speaker 2: really embrace that life. So again this is a simplified
6:36
Speaker 2: version because we do eventually want to come back to
6:39
Speaker 2: the whole women and farming and garden clubs and as such,
6:42
Speaker 2: because again that's a lot and also a food preservation
6:45
Speaker 2: I think we need to come and talk about that
6:48
Speaker 2: we kind of had mentioned about holding a showy community
6:52
Speaker 2: and how they really have been preserving their crops and
6:56
Speaker 2: going back to old school crops that are no longer available.
7:01
Speaker 2: I loved this so like preservation, food preservation, plant preservation
7:05
Speaker 2: all of that. I think it's important and we would
7:07
Speaker 2: definitely want to come back and have a bigger conversations
7:09
Speaker 2: about that, hoping to have some guests on that eventually,
7:12
Speaker 2: because we know people do.
7:14
Speaker 1: My friend doctor Julius Skinner, Yes, so.
7:17
Speaker 2: We gotta figure out how to get those done. But
7:19
Speaker 2: all that to say is we are well be talking
7:21
Speaker 2: about this is very small, low key conversation. So let's
7:26
Speaker 2: talk about the history of the garden. And this is
7:29
Speaker 2: thanks to Vetrogarden dot com and the Celticfarm dot com
7:32
Speaker 2: for giving some of this research as well as a Smithsonian.
7:35
Speaker 2: We had some timelines that I could look through with
7:38
Speaker 2: the research about the history of gardening and women in gardening.
7:41
Speaker 2: So gardening has been around since the beginning of time,
7:44
Speaker 2: let's just be real honest, linking it to human survival
7:47
Speaker 2: and even spirituality. It was in every part of the world,
7:51
Speaker 2: found in Mesopotamia, China and beyond, there were gardens that
7:55
Speaker 2: provided food, medicine, and guidance. It could be a place
7:58
Speaker 2: of balance and calm, or even a place of honor
8:01
Speaker 2: and status. And it was during this time that in
8:04
Speaker 2: places like Mesopotamia, women were most likely given the responsibility
8:08
Speaker 2: to cultivate and care for these gardens with the goddess
8:11
Speaker 2: of fertility in agriculture behind them. Isis they managed the
8:14
Speaker 2: areas and make sure the community had all they needed
8:17
Speaker 2: through these harvests. And we also know even today we
8:20
Speaker 2: talk about foods as they may help in specific things.
8:24
Speaker 2: Whether it's to help your sex life, whether it is
8:26
Speaker 2: to help your hormones, whether it's to help you have
8:29
Speaker 2: good reproductive things. All those things apply, and that's been
8:34
Speaker 2: since the beginning of time in things like Mesopotamia, with
8:38
Speaker 2: isis being like, I'll bless you with these things, and
8:39
Speaker 2: this is for fertility type of conversation. It would soon
8:43
Speaker 2: lead up to places of worship and dedication. Monasteries had
8:47
Speaker 2: gardens sanctioned off to help maintain the villages or communities nearby.
8:51
Speaker 2: They were kind of responsible for helping with that. Kingdoms
8:55
Speaker 2: and royal areas had enclosed gardens known as hortis conclusives,
8:59
Speaker 2: which simple purity and protection, and in convents, many of
9:03
Speaker 2: the nuns were responsible in keeping up with the produce
9:05
Speaker 2: and plants that were in their gardens, and these nuns
9:09
Speaker 2: were known as some of the first horticulturalists in history.
9:13
Speaker 2: So I thought that was interesting. However, gardens weren't just
9:17
Speaker 2: at convents and monasteries, but outside of little you know,
9:21
Speaker 2: little homes and cottages that are still around today. So
9:25
Speaker 2: women made cottage gardens popular with the blending of different veggies, fruits,
9:29
Speaker 2: and herbs and flowers, not only for their practical use,
9:32
Speaker 2: but the esthetics, with the bright colors and blooms surrounding
9:35
Speaker 2: a quaint home. It has become a picturesque symbol of
9:39
Speaker 2: the perfect home. So you know what I'm talking about.
9:41
Speaker 2: That white picket fence with a trellis with all of
9:43
Speaker 2: the flowers and even grapes, and the little veggies on the
9:46
Speaker 2: side like they This became a thing around this time,
9:49
Speaker 2: so very lovely to see. Also, I have a feeling
9:52
Speaker 2: you had to have money for that, But you know.
9:55
Speaker 2: Moving on, and as the timeline continues, we see a
9:59
Speaker 2: little competition rising in the world of gardening. And this
10:02
Speaker 2: is again more I think, with the flower gardens that
10:05
Speaker 2: we were talking about, first France and Italy having to
10:09
Speaker 2: show off with their fountains and perfectly trimmed hedges and
10:13
Speaker 2: overly elaborate statues. Then it would spread onto the English gardens,
10:19
Speaker 2: which they added groves of trees, ponds like I think
10:23
Speaker 2: they had they said specific snakelike shaped rivers or water
10:29
Speaker 2: properties to add to it. And then the Victorian style
10:33
Speaker 2: that they decide would be easier with some little technology
10:37
Speaker 2: added to it and its way of creating their gardens.
10:41
Speaker 2: So with the new advancements we see the additions of
10:43
Speaker 2: greenhouses and conservatories add to the landscape. I feel like
10:48
Speaker 2: when I see greenhouses, especially nice ones, I'm like, yeah, you're.
10:50
Speaker 1: Rich, rich, Yeah, listen. I could go into a whole
10:53
Speaker 1: thing about pineapples and what they represented in the greenhouses,
10:57
Speaker 1: but oh, yes, ahead, I love it.
11:00
Speaker 2: What did they represent.
11:01
Speaker 1: Well, because pineapples were so hard to get outside of
11:06
Speaker 1: where they grew, if you could afford to have a
11:10
Speaker 1: pineapple greenhouse, and Europe particularly, it did represent like, oh,
11:17
Speaker 1: this person has a lot of money. And people used
11:21
Speaker 1: to rent pineapples if they couldn't have a greenhouse to
11:26
Speaker 1: show off how much money they had but they didn't
11:30
Speaker 1: have it, but they would rent pineapples and bring them
11:33
Speaker 1: to parties and just carry them around.
11:34
Speaker 2: Just one ate them to just carry them around.
11:37
Speaker 1: No, but that's why, like sometimes you'll see like the
11:42
Speaker 1: pineapple has been used as the kind of sign of
11:46
Speaker 1: good luck fortune. You'll see it in a lot of
11:50
Speaker 1: homes and on mailboxes. I see it. But yeah, it
11:55
Speaker 1: was a it was a flex for Europeans. I don't
12:00
Speaker 1: want to outside of that, not necessarily, but for Europeans who.
12:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, well again with the Victorian age, it was they
12:08
Speaker 2: would add to that whole allure with exotic plants. They
12:12
Speaker 2: were like, oh, the more exotic the plants. They would
12:14
Speaker 2: bring things in to show off how much they had. Again,
12:18
Speaker 2: this can be controversial on so many levels, especially when
12:21
Speaker 2: we talk about sustainability, native plants and all of that,
12:23
Speaker 2: and also colonization. Yeah, but again that's going to be
12:27
Speaker 2: pinned for another episode. We're trying to make this one light, y'all,
12:31
Speaker 2: all the towards the end it becomes less light.
12:33
Speaker 1: So it always happens, you can't.
12:37
Speaker 2: Again, when we talk about farming and gardening, it is political.
12:40
Speaker 2: It does become a little pin and like in every
12:43
Speaker 2: bit of conversation, especially when we talk about how the
12:46
Speaker 2: land is used, talk about colonization and who deserves and
12:50
Speaker 2: what is right, so who deserves food essentially, and as
13:04
Speaker 2: during this time we had the botanists and the designers
13:07
Speaker 2: really leading the way, women like Jane Colden came through
13:10
Speaker 2: and cataloging as many plants. She became the first American
13:13
Speaker 2: woman botanist in seventeen fifty and was the first to
13:16
Speaker 2: use the new system created by Swedish botanists Linnaeus to
13:19
Speaker 2: help identify the different plants. And in the nineteenth century,
13:23
Speaker 2: women really came to the forefront of gardening. Books like
13:26
Speaker 2: The Ladies Flower Garden written by Jane Louden really pushed
13:29
Speaker 2: more women to jump into the gardening world. We have
13:32
Speaker 2: past feminist first highlights in az Mehea, who became one
13:36
Speaker 2: of the first Mexican American botanists to travel around Americas.
13:39
Speaker 2: Go listen to that episode. Blue put it up as
13:41
Speaker 2: a classic while ago, great episode. And here we also
13:46
Speaker 2: have Gercher Jekyl, a renowned garden designer who really changed
13:49
Speaker 2: the style of the English garden. She used seasonal changes
13:54
Speaker 2: as an influence in her design as well as understood
13:57
Speaker 2: the coordinating of color and texture into the garden. It
14:00
Speaker 2: was credited with designing over four hundred gardens in her time,
14:03
Speaker 2: so she was pretty big. She was a big wig.
14:05
Speaker 2: I'm sure she wore wigs. And soon comes the war
14:09
Speaker 2: garden or better known as Victory gardens, so the history
14:13
Speaker 2: of Victory gardens really became a legend in itself. These
14:17
Speaker 2: gardens first started popping up around the First World War.
14:20
Speaker 2: The American government at the time called on the people
14:22
Speaker 2: to start taking up the self sustaining practice of gardening
14:25
Speaker 2: as possible and actual food shortages could affect the country,
14:30
Speaker 2: of course, with an underlying manipulation of calling it patriotic duty.
14:34
Speaker 2: There was a lot of propaganda with this, a lot
14:36
Speaker 2: of propaganda, and it worked. The people joined the movement
14:40
Speaker 2: by turning their open lands into vegetable gardens, the front yards,
14:43
Speaker 2: the schools, and the community open areas. And women were
14:47
Speaker 2: the focal point in this movement because you know, the
14:50
Speaker 2: men were at war, so women had to take up
14:52
Speaker 2: the lag and women did a great job. But moving on,
14:55
Speaker 2: Author Cecilia Goudi Wygant and I really hope I said
14:58
Speaker 2: her name right. If I didn't, I apologize, wrote this
15:01
Speaker 2: about that era in her article Women's History and Gardening
15:04
Speaker 2: for Victory on blog dot front Range dot edu. Quote.
15:08
Speaker 2: During both World War I and World War II, the
15:11
Speaker 2: US government targeted women in their advertising of wartime agricultural programming,
15:16
Speaker 2: and women use the opportunity to put their labor, both
15:19
Speaker 2: at home and on farms, at the forefront of natural
15:21
Speaker 2: conversations about the imbalance and equalities of their labor and
15:25
Speaker 2: their political voice. Their labor helped win the long movement
15:29
Speaker 2: for suffrage, aided in carving out places and spaces for
15:31
Speaker 2: women in education and agriculture, and ultimately provided opportunities for
15:36
Speaker 2: women to form personal identity based on their work to
15:39
Speaker 2: help others. So this really did open up World War One,
15:42
Speaker 2: really did open up a lot of opportunities for women.
15:45
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it changed anything, but it did show
15:49
Speaker 2: that women could do it. Don't get me right. It
15:51
Speaker 2: did change things, but you know what I mean, it
15:53
Speaker 2: was slow rolling because when the women came back, they
15:54
Speaker 2: were like, Okay, women go book to that kitchen. Men
15:58
Speaker 2: have got it now. So we did see things change.
16:01
Speaker 2: We're going to get back to activism, gardening, and women
16:03
Speaker 2: later in this episode, not a lot, because again, like
16:06
Speaker 2: I said, it could be really a lot bigger, but
16:09
Speaker 2: just a little more in conversation. But for now, we're
16:12
Speaker 2: going to finish our conversation about the Victory Gardens. So
16:15
Speaker 2: the background motive on how these gardens came into play
16:18
Speaker 2: has a lot to do with politics, with a need
16:20
Speaker 2: to support our allies across the way and ourselves. The
16:23
Speaker 2: government encouraged the families to start growing their own food
16:26
Speaker 2: and cut out things like meat and wheat as a
16:29
Speaker 2: way to hoard the supplies from other farmers. Back to
16:32
Speaker 2: Goudi Wiget's article, she writes, keeping the allies from starvation
16:36
Speaker 2: became an important goal of the US involvement in the war.
16:39
Speaker 2: Americans believe their safety depended upon a victory of their
16:42
Speaker 2: trading partners and cultural allies. Therefore, as war loomed across Europe,
16:46
Speaker 2: American political and social leaders looked for ways to send
16:49
Speaker 2: aid to food insecure soldiers and civilians in Europe. Official
16:53
Speaker 2: rationing programs discourage American citizens from consuming too much and
16:57
Speaker 2: to accommodate for some of those losses of agricultural programs
17:01
Speaker 2: encouraged Americans to produce more food at home in backyards,
17:04
Speaker 2: window boxes, rooftops, and vacant lots. There was also a
17:08
Speaker 2: big seed program that we don't get into in this
17:11
Speaker 2: conversation that happened. There's a lot of propaganda. There's a
17:14
Speaker 2: lot of interesting things that happened within this time. I'm
17:18
Speaker 2: not going to get into maybe any will in a minute,
17:19
Speaker 2: I don't know. And they made money off of this.
17:23
Speaker 2: They made one point two billion dollars to be exact
17:26
Speaker 2: by the end of the war, and they were able
17:29
Speaker 2: to send four million tons of food to the warfront,
17:32
Speaker 2: although the original goal was twenty million, so it wasn't
17:35
Speaker 2: as much, but you know, some some headway. And like
17:40
Speaker 2: a lot of the industries and jobs at the time,
17:42
Speaker 2: women stepped up as the men again were gone to war,
17:45
Speaker 2: and this included farming. In the UK, they were able
17:48
Speaker 2: to successfully keep up with their farming and agriculture thanks
17:51
Speaker 2: to the WLA or Women's Land Army, who were also
17:55
Speaker 2: called the land Girls slash land Lassies.
17:58
Speaker 1: The land laugh.
18:01
Speaker 2: I just had to add that because I was like,
18:02
Speaker 2: we would oh no here land lessiek and he who
18:06
Speaker 2: works out no anyway. They were put together to help
18:10
Speaker 2: keep up with the needed work on the farms and
18:12
Speaker 2: to continue to feed their communities. Of course, after the
18:15
Speaker 2: war ended they disbanded, but thanks to World War Two
18:19
Speaker 2: they were revived to do the same work with a
18:22
Speaker 2: new generation, and by the end of World War One
18:26
Speaker 2: they renamed their War Garden to Victory Gardens and the
18:30
Speaker 2: tradition was picked up again during World War Two with
18:34
Speaker 2: more encouragement from the White House and the administration even
18:37
Speaker 2: having registrations for the gardens across the country, and they
18:40
Speaker 2: started contest to celebrate the largest gardens and the gardens
18:44
Speaker 2: who had the most harvests. So they were real bit like,
18:46
Speaker 2: we're gonna make this fun, We're gonna make this a competition.
18:48
Speaker 2: It really does feel like when you're in middle school
18:51
Speaker 2: and you're like, we had to do the most of
18:52
Speaker 2: this and you can have a pizza.
18:53
Speaker 1: Party accelerated, reading accelerated and.
18:57
Speaker 2: Which is back, by the way, pizza Huddond family is
18:59
Speaker 2: doing it again. Oh yes, moving on, and they were
19:03
Speaker 2: breaking records again from that front Range blog. Approximately ten
19:08
Speaker 2: million victory gardens were planted in nineteen forty two, and
19:11
Speaker 2: that number increased to twenty million in nineteen forty three.
19:15
Speaker 2: The USDA estimated that those twenty million gardens produced ten
19:19
Speaker 2: billion pounds of food and forty percent of the nation's
19:22
Speaker 2: vegetable supply. So that's a huge amount of numbers and
19:25
Speaker 2: I'm sure it saved a lot of people. And as
19:28
Speaker 2: a side note, this also led to the beginning of
19:30
Speaker 2: the practice of canning which I'm sure any you also
19:33
Speaker 2: have a lot of information about that. Speaking of which
19:35
Speaker 2: I know you covered these subjects in your show other show, Saver.
19:39
Speaker 2: What can you tell us about Victory gardens.
19:42
Speaker 1: I can tell you that victory gardens had a huge
19:47
Speaker 1: impacts on how people viewed certain foods. And we're not
19:53
Speaker 1: going to get into this today because it's not gardening,
19:56
Speaker 1: but it also, like certain things like eminem like World
20:02
Speaker 1: War One and World War two just completely changed a
20:07
Speaker 1: lot of our viewpoints on food. But when it comes
20:10
Speaker 1: to victory gardens, there were some unfortunate what i'll call victims,
20:16
Speaker 1: vegetable victims, because you would grow hardy vegetables like kale
20:25
Speaker 1: or coal robbie, and there was this very patriotic push
20:30
Speaker 1: behind it, like you've got to do it for your country,
20:34
Speaker 1: and so people did it. But then because it you
20:38
Speaker 1: were eating it all the time, you had these other
20:42
Speaker 1: rations that were impacting your meals and how you can
20:46
Speaker 1: make them taste. People just didn't like kale anymore. They
20:50
Speaker 1: didn't like col robbie anymore. So that's why, like in
20:52
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, kale was the number one purchaser of
20:57
Speaker 1: kale was Pizza Hut, hey, pizza hut in one episode,
21:01
Speaker 1: and they use it as a garnish. They didn't use
21:04
Speaker 1: it as a food because it was viewed as like,
21:07
Speaker 1: and they kind of hate that we do this, but
21:09
Speaker 1: we do as humans. It was viewed as a food
21:12
Speaker 1: for people who didn't have a lot of money. It
21:13
Speaker 1: was viewed as like, oh, you're in rationing, you're eating kale.
21:21
Speaker 1: But it was something people were passionate about, and then
21:24
Speaker 1: it had that lasting impact on the certain foods that
21:28
Speaker 1: were being grown, right, yes, skilled back in, well it
21:33
Speaker 1: kale is back in, but it took It was that
21:35
Speaker 1: kind of clipical thing of people being like, oh no,
21:41
Speaker 1: not Victory Garden kale. And then people were like, wait
21:44
Speaker 1: a minute, let's think about this kale. Do we have
21:47
Speaker 1: just have it as a garnish a pizza that I
21:49
Speaker 1: don't know.
21:50
Speaker 2: I really didn't know it was edible, because I'm very
21:55
Speaker 2: confused about the situation. It's not in one of those
21:57
Speaker 2: brown container cans where you yes, like cucumbers for your salad. Interestingly, yeah,
22:07
Speaker 2: so I did read that after the Victory Garden, after
22:09
Speaker 2: the World War, after the Great Depression, people stopped gardening
22:12
Speaker 2: because they were so scarred and traumatized by the Depression,
22:17
Speaker 2: the Great Depression, and doing those things just felt like
22:21
Speaker 2: reliving that era. Yeah, which I find interesting because it
22:25
Speaker 2: like it makes a lot of sense when you don't
22:28
Speaker 2: understand what it is and if you don't have the
22:30
Speaker 2: variety the ability to make food taste different. So if
22:34
Speaker 2: you don't have butter, which I'm sure that was like ration,
22:37
Speaker 2: like nobody's business, you don't have the seasonings and all
22:40
Speaker 2: of that, it makes it makes a giant change. And
22:42
Speaker 2: if you're not eating meat, which makes a lot of
22:44
Speaker 2: the vegetables tastes great. Sorry vegetarians and beacons. But like
22:48
Speaker 2: you know, one of my favorite things is doing like
22:51
Speaker 2: beef stock or like chicken stock to block choi and
22:55
Speaker 2: I make sure you're like with lots of garlic. But like,
22:58
Speaker 2: if you don't have that.
23:00
Speaker 1: And the US government did try really hard, this is
23:06
Speaker 1: a whole rabbit hole. You can go down listeners if
23:08
Speaker 1: you want to. But they were like, no, Cole Robbie's great,
23:13
Speaker 1: here's all ways you cook it. So they would release
23:16
Speaker 1: like these pamphlets yes that were just like please eat
23:21
Speaker 1: it and here are the ways you can cook it.
23:23
Speaker 1: But yeah, if you don't have the ingredients to make
23:26
Speaker 1: it good or honestly, sometimes if your soil isn't good
23:32
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, and you've got kind of a
23:34
Speaker 1: wilty kale, nobody wants a wilty kale.
23:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, wilted kell people eat that anyway. No, but
23:44
Speaker 2: it is interesting to see the effects of that because
23:46
Speaker 2: it was a lot of like community pride. But then
23:49
Speaker 2: it lasted a lot longer than they expected. The need
23:53
Speaker 2: was a lot longer than they expected. The government made
23:55
Speaker 2: a lot of money on rationing people in an odd way,
24:01
Speaker 2: like one point two billion dollars to send off. It
24:04
Speaker 2: seems suspect in that, especially during that time. And again,
24:09
Speaker 2: this is an interesting conversation today because it's kind of
24:12
Speaker 2: coming back and people are talking about the needs to
24:15
Speaker 2: have more of it. We're gonna talk about that a
24:16
Speaker 2: little bit more later. Part of the reason I started
24:19
Speaker 2: gardening is kind of being motivated about what happens if
24:22
Speaker 2: we are in the apocalypse, So that is that whole
24:25
Speaker 2: level survival. Oh and I was gonna ask you, what
24:29
Speaker 2: do you know about canning? Because if we don't, we're
24:30
Speaker 2: not It's not about gardening. But it is interesting because
24:33
Speaker 2: my like it's a very southern thing to do to me.
24:37
Speaker 1: I have a whole book right here that just shows Samantha,
24:41
Speaker 1: I know a lot about canning through the work of
24:45
Speaker 1: what I've done on Safer. Napoleon he's really the one
24:50
Speaker 1: that that little guy, Yeah, because again we're talking about wars.
24:55
Speaker 1: Wars been such a push in finding ways to get
25:01
Speaker 1: food to soldiers, and so Napoleon like he listed a
25:09
Speaker 1: reward for whoever could figure out a better canning system
25:13
Speaker 1: a way to preserve food to send to soldiers during
25:16
Speaker 1: the French Wars, the Napoleonic course, and I think it
25:24
Speaker 1: was Nicholas Upier he figured it out. And it's obviously
25:29
Speaker 1: such a big thing because if you can make food
25:32
Speaker 1: last longer, especially before refrigeration, right, that was a big deal.
25:37
Speaker 1: That was a huge deal. I've personally never done it,
25:40
Speaker 1: and I'm kind of terrified of it. My friend I
25:42
Speaker 1: mentioned doctor Julia Skinner. She's told me it's not as
25:46
Speaker 1: scary as I'm making it out to be.
25:48
Speaker 2: You're afraid of the popping.
25:50
Speaker 1: I'm afraid. I've got a lot of fears on this sleep.
25:54
Speaker 1: But I do know it's a big I have friends
26:00
Speaker 1: from the South who make like scuppernog jam or like
26:04
Speaker 1: they'll can Yeah, they'll do specific preserves or something that
26:10
Speaker 1: do feel very Southern to me.
26:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I just remember jars and jars of green beans. Yeah,
26:18
Speaker 2: that would be set aside because I was one of
26:20
Speaker 2: the biggest crops in the South. Here. It is those
26:23
Speaker 2: green beans, and I love good fresh green bean. So
26:25
Speaker 2: I loved seeing that okra would be jarred. That was
26:29
Speaker 2: not my favorite because if it didn't eat it took
26:33
Speaker 2: me a while to like okra texture. I will say
26:36
Speaker 2: my partner has scared me because he bought a giant
26:38
Speaker 2: box of cans, like the glass Mason jars, and I'm like,
26:42
Speaker 2: are we about to start canning? We probably need to,
26:44
Speaker 2: but that means I have to learn something that I'm
26:46
Speaker 2: not gonna be real good at. I have a book
26:48
Speaker 2: I can get I might be calling you, But I
26:52
Speaker 2: find that stuff interesting because it is talking about preservation
26:55
Speaker 2: of food and keeping those And that's the reason they
26:58
Speaker 2: brought canning was because they were growing such a substantial
27:00
Speaker 2: amount of vegetables that you can't keep forever, so they're like,
27:04
Speaker 2: how do we preserve these? So yeah, this gardening movement
27:08
Speaker 2: really opened up the world to grow and cultivate more
27:11
Speaker 2: of course, like I said, there was a moment of like, yeah,
27:12
Speaker 2: we're not doing that anymore. We're not in the Great Depression.
27:15
Speaker 2: No thank you. But it did bring into mind like, oh,
27:18
Speaker 2: that we can do it. It actually is possible. It's
27:20
Speaker 2: not as difficult. It's not a fun thing. If you
27:23
Speaker 2: lived in the direct Great Depression. I know, people have
27:25
Speaker 2: like habits that they had formed that it was hard
27:28
Speaker 2: to let go of. Like I remember my great grandmother
27:30
Speaker 2: saving all these types of things that you don't need
27:33
Speaker 2: to You don't need to do that anymore. But because
27:35
Speaker 2: of the Great Depression, they really learned to like stretch
27:38
Speaker 2: out their dollar rightly. So but with that, as that
27:42
Speaker 2: hadn't passed, people started to come back to gardening and
27:44
Speaker 2: be like, Okay, this may be a sustainable thing. This
27:46
Speaker 2: is interesting. And also with climate change, they really took
27:50
Speaker 2: on gardening as a conversation piece. They had gardening into
27:54
Speaker 2: schools to teach children about responsibility about nature, and they
27:58
Speaker 2: also opened up urban community gardens. So this is kind
28:00
Speaker 2: of like all you know that era after World War Two.
28:04
Speaker 2: During World War two is when they started really doing
28:06
Speaker 2: a lot more like school gardening because they're like, we're
28:07
Speaker 2: going to take advantage of the space child labor laws.
28:10
Speaker 2: There wasn't that really wasn't a thing much. I mean
28:12
Speaker 2: it kind of was, but it wasn't. They're like, yeah,
28:14
Speaker 2: make them do this, but also it's enjoyable, like get
28:17
Speaker 2: them out in the yard, get them out and play
28:19
Speaker 2: in the dirt, and this is this is something they
28:20
Speaker 2: can learn, and that kind of kept going into the schools.
28:24
Speaker 2: The type of gardening specifically in schools really helped students
28:27
Speaker 2: become more interested in gardening science than nature. It also
28:31
Speaker 2: again helped bring up issues about climate change and in
28:34
Speaker 2: environmental advocacy within the schools. This is one of those
28:37
Speaker 2: conversations where we were like, we talk about climate change.
28:39
Speaker 2: A lot of people don't want to talk about it now.
28:42
Speaker 2: Even then they probably like it's not a big deal.
28:44
Speaker 2: But there were a lot of those who did get
28:47
Speaker 2: really caught up in understanding this is a thing we
28:50
Speaker 2: need to see what's happening, and we need to teach
28:52
Speaker 2: the children, and gardening was way to do that. In
28:55
Speaker 2: movements like the Victory Garden, community gardens and garden clubs.
28:58
Speaker 2: Again something we're going to touch on later, not in
29:00
Speaker 2: this episode. It really pushed for women to be in
29:03
Speaker 2: the gardening world and with that activism in gardening. So
29:07
Speaker 2: during times of oppression and discrimination, many communities use gardens
29:10
Speaker 2: as a way of empowering but also of survival. There
29:13
Speaker 2: was one conversation during World War two about the Japanese
29:17
Speaker 2: internment camps and how they actually had their own gardens
29:20
Speaker 2: and those internment camps not only as a way to survive,
29:23
Speaker 2: not only as a way to get through the day,
29:26
Speaker 2: but they actually did it to preserve their culture. They
29:28
Speaker 2: would grow a lot of things that was dear to
29:30
Speaker 2: them from Japan in order to keep their culture alive,
29:34
Speaker 2: especially during the time that they were being persecuted. So
29:37
Speaker 2: they really brought that as a way of activism and
29:39
Speaker 2: continue to thrive and empower themselves at a time of oppression.
29:44
Speaker 2: Also with that one clear another example would be of
29:47
Speaker 2: the enslaved people, specifically the enslaved women, who would have
29:51
Speaker 2: small gardens or provision gardens near where they lived, so
29:55
Speaker 2: here they would grow food, medicinal herbs, and so much
29:58
Speaker 2: more in order to continue to survive even though they
30:02
Speaker 2: did not have time honestly obviously, but they knew that
30:07
Speaker 2: they needed this for themselves as a way also to survive.
30:11
Speaker 2: As a way also to preserve their culture. This is
30:15
Speaker 2: from gardening know how dot com. These gardens were some
30:18
Speaker 2: of the few spaces that black women felt as if
30:20
Speaker 2: they had some aspect of autonomy. Caring for them became
30:23
Speaker 2: a way to maintain family bonds, passed down familiar food traditions,
30:27
Speaker 2: and keep healing practices alive, all under a system designed
30:31
Speaker 2: to strip people of autonomy. And it is through this
30:35
Speaker 2: that the US have some of the different types of
30:37
Speaker 2: crops that we have today that originated from Africa. Judith
30:41
Speaker 2: Karney led a lecture at UCLA talking about these specific
30:45
Speaker 2: moments in history, which you can find her lecture at
30:47
Speaker 2: International dot UCLA dot edu just look at her name.
30:51
Speaker 2: She says this food insecurity was a brutal fact of
30:54
Speaker 2: daily existence on plantations during the Transatlantic slave trade. Overworked
30:58
Speaker 2: and underfed the slaved to growing their own food in
31:02
Speaker 2: the small yards around their dwellings. In the article, they
31:05
Speaker 2: talk about how she was using first person European accounts,
31:09
Speaker 2: so they were able to get all this information drawings
31:12
Speaker 2: and from paintings in oral history, so she was able
31:14
Speaker 2: to get a lot of this information. So she uses
31:17
Speaker 2: the term subsistence agriculture, and she said it was hiding
31:20
Speaker 2: in plain sight within plantation monoculture. And she goes on,
31:24
Speaker 2: after the abolition of slavery, this subalternate agricultural strategy evolved
31:29
Speaker 2: into Afro descended small holder farming system widely practiced even
31:33
Speaker 2: to this day. A defining feature of this alternative food
31:36
Speaker 2: system is the number of plants that are African in province.
31:40
Speaker 2: And she added including sorghum, millet, yams okra, the oil
31:43
Speaker 2: palm and cola of Coca cola, and black peas. So
31:47
Speaker 2: all these came through. Also, they apparently had brought some
31:50
Speaker 2: plants that originated in Asia but had made its way
31:54
Speaker 2: to Africa, including taro. I was like, oh, that's interesting,
31:59
Speaker 2: but that was brought and introduced here. So they go
32:03
Speaker 2: on to say all of these food plants were domesticated
32:05
Speaker 2: in Africa. So we talk about a lot of things
32:08
Speaker 2: started in Africa. It truly started in Africa. It's not
32:11
Speaker 2: just the same. And during the civil rights movement, legends
32:14
Speaker 2: like Fanning low Hammer not only was at the forefront
32:18
Speaker 2: and advocating for women's rights and voting rights, but she
32:20
Speaker 2: paved the way in food security during that time as well.
32:23
Speaker 2: So this is from an ap news article about women
32:26
Speaker 2: in gardening. A civil rights and agricultural activist, Hammer founded
32:29
Speaker 2: the Freedom Farm Cooperative in the late nineteen sixties to
32:33
Speaker 2: provide land, livestock, and vegetable growing resources to poor black
32:37
Speaker 2: families and farmers in Sunflower County, Mississippi. The cooperative facilitated
32:41
Speaker 2: crop sharing, self reliance, and financial independence. Participating families were
32:45
Speaker 2: also loaned a piglet to raise the maturity, after which
32:48
Speaker 2: they would return it for mating and give the cooperative
32:51
Speaker 2: two pikelets from each leader to continue the program. If
32:55
Speaker 2: you have a pig in your backyard, if you have
32:56
Speaker 2: some vegetables in your garden, you can feed yourself and
32:59
Speaker 2: your family and nobody can push you around. Hammer said
33:02
Speaker 2: her cooperative became one of the earliest examples of modern
33:05
Speaker 2: community gardening and a precursor of today's food justice movement.
33:09
Speaker 2: I didn't know that about I needed a little bit
33:12
Speaker 2: about Famielu. Hammer didn't know that part. And I love
33:15
Speaker 2: that as a conversation because she and many others understood
33:19
Speaker 2: the basic human rights really has to be here. But
33:23
Speaker 2: with that that includes food justice, food security, which is
33:26
Speaker 2: still not solved. No, and we couldn't finish this episode
33:41
Speaker 2: without talking about the importance of the indigenous people when
33:44
Speaker 2: it comes to cultivating and growing food. We talked a
33:47
Speaker 2: while ago about the Juna Shoni community and their leadership
33:50
Speaker 2: for women's movement, an overall great example of the matriarchal leadership,
33:55
Speaker 2: so it isn't too surprising to see that they would
33:57
Speaker 2: also be leaders and teachers to our modern standing of
34:00
Speaker 2: agriculture and sustainability. But with that, they had the three
34:06
Speaker 2: Sisters who were the sustainers of their community. But it
34:10
Speaker 2: wasn't just a way to honor them, but a whole
34:13
Speaker 2: intercropping system. So this legend, the spiritual practice became a
34:18
Speaker 2: system that really helped grow more food. So this is
34:21
Speaker 2: from the National Agricultural Library from the USA. According to
34:26
Speaker 2: Shavanda Jacob's Young, PhD. Administrator, Agricultural Research Service, US Department
34:30
Speaker 2: of Agriculture. Quote in agricultural parlance, three sisters are crops
34:35
Speaker 2: planted together in shared space maize, beans, and squash developed
34:40
Speaker 2: through indigenous agricultural practices. These three plants protect and nourish
34:44
Speaker 2: each other in different ways as they grow and provide
34:46
Speaker 2: a solid diet for their cultivators. The intercropping method of
34:50
Speaker 2: planting corn beans and squashed together, commonly called the three sisters,
34:54
Speaker 2: have been studied and described by scholars in anthropology, history, agriculture,
34:59
Speaker 2: and food studies for many years. While this practice is
35:02
Speaker 2: often cited in current sources as a way to improve
35:04
Speaker 2: small gardens for individual use, its historical value lay in
35:08
Speaker 2: larger implementations designed to nurture and sustain entire communities. So
35:14
Speaker 2: this practice was successful, to say the least. Through this
35:17
Speaker 2: they were able to have such diverse varieties and healthy
35:20
Speaker 2: harvests that spread throughout different types of environments. But of course,
35:25
Speaker 2: due to colonizations, many of these amazing variants were lost. Yeah,
35:30
Speaker 2: which makes me sad because I couldn't imagine. I think
35:33
Speaker 2: about some of the things that we missed out on
35:34
Speaker 2: because of bad practices. And just in case you wanted
35:40
Speaker 2: a definition of what intercropping is, this is what the
35:43
Speaker 2: USDA article says. Intercropping is an all encompassing term for
35:47
Speaker 2: the practice of growing two or more crops in close
35:50
Speaker 2: proximity in the same row or bed, or in rows
35:53
Speaker 2: or strips are close enough for biological interactions. Mixed cropping,
35:57
Speaker 2: companion planting, relay cropping, interceding, overseating, underseeding, smother cropping, planting polycultures,
36:02
Speaker 2: and using living mulch are all forms of intercropping. Technically,
36:06
Speaker 2: I'm doing that with my urbs in my plants.
36:09
Speaker 1: There you go.
36:10
Speaker 2: Thank you. Indigenous communities and they are trying to they've
36:14
Speaker 2: been trying to research this practice as a way to
36:16
Speaker 2: sustain food around the country. Around the world. There's also
36:21
Speaker 2: the conversation about saving seeds and creating better seats for
36:24
Speaker 2: the following year, creating better crops, creating variants, which is
36:29
Speaker 2: a real good idea. Outside of the US today, Indigenous
36:34
Speaker 2: women around the world have been leading food sovereignty initiatives.
36:36
Speaker 2: Indigenous women from countries like Philippines, Indonesia, and Bangladesh have
36:40
Speaker 2: come together to organize and teach people to not only
36:42
Speaker 2: grow food, but also to keep their culture and way
36:45
Speaker 2: of life. And to add to that, they were working
36:47
Speaker 2: to teach more about self reliability, climbing solutions, and also
36:50
Speaker 2: for communities to take part in local and territorial government
36:53
Speaker 2: and policies, because yes, farming food is political. And with that,
37:00
Speaker 2: new practices like permaculture, which we talked about a little bit,
37:03
Speaker 2: has been something that the indigenous community have been practicing
37:06
Speaker 2: before colonization way before when. So this is from PBS
37:09
Speaker 2: SoCal from their article titled The Indigenous Science of Permaculture.
37:13
Speaker 2: The foundations of parmaculture rest on two concepts, and understanding
37:17
Speaker 2: and acceptance of the diversity of whole systems as opposed
37:20
Speaker 2: to the soil degrading effects of industrial monoculture, and on
37:24
Speaker 2: the relational, slow, yet dynamic practice of observing the land
37:27
Speaker 2: and its many complex ecosystems. Both of these principles have
37:31
Speaker 2: also been the core tenants of relating to and working
37:34
Speaker 2: with nature by indigenous people the world over for millennia.
37:38
Speaker 2: That permaculture arose as a vital response to the dangerous
37:41
Speaker 2: environmental and human degradation of industrialization and its toxic farming
37:46
Speaker 2: and agricultural practices is undeniable. So the article goes in
37:50
Speaker 2: depth in the sciences and practices that the indigenous people
37:52
Speaker 2: use in their farming and gardening. Permaculture they say is
37:56
Speaker 2: fundamentally then and indigenous science. This framework is a design
38:01
Speaker 2: system that incorporates core principles and practices from indigenous knowledge
38:05
Speaker 2: around the world, assimilating it with sustainable new technology that
38:09
Speaker 2: is making strides towards harmonizing this traditional wisdom with pioneering
38:14
Speaker 2: modern quantum science. As such, it can restore valuable ancient
38:19
Speaker 2: knowledge while steering our industrialized society towards a more viable
38:23
Speaker 2: future based on regeneration and reciprocity. So what we do understand.
38:28
Speaker 2: What we do know is that a lot of these
38:29
Speaker 2: practices were kind of killed off by colonization, by war,
38:33
Speaker 2: by the death of the indigenous people, by the conquering
38:36
Speaker 2: and of the indigenous people because they actually would burn
38:40
Speaker 2: down crops in order to push people out, push the
38:43
Speaker 2: indigenous communities out, which is why all this happened. Not
38:47
Speaker 2: only that they would actually try to steal their stuff
38:51
Speaker 2: without actually researching what it was. So what once it
38:54
Speaker 2: was helpful because we know the lore is that they
38:57
Speaker 2: were the colonizers were giving some tips. We're taught how
39:01
Speaker 2: to grow in this land in this area, and so
39:05
Speaker 2: they took that. But then all the wars and they
39:08
Speaker 2: wanted more, and the greed happened and they just kind
39:10
Speaker 2: of burned everything down. They lost a lot in this moment,
39:13
Speaker 2: and instead of finding smart, sustainable ways of getting food
39:19
Speaker 2: and providing food, they did their own thing, which causes
39:22
Speaker 2: a lot of havoc of where we are today, Oh man,
39:26
Speaker 2: if only.
39:28
Speaker 1: Anyway.
39:29
Speaker 2: So there's a lot we need to look at beyond
39:32
Speaker 2: just the joys of gardening and the fact that we
39:34
Speaker 2: have been at a point where Benny families are still
39:37
Speaker 2: struggling with food securities today, and the conversation about whether
39:41
Speaker 2: the government is going to actually provide a solution or
39:44
Speaker 2: it's something that we're going to have to do. A
39:46
Speaker 2: lot of this comes back to where we are today.
39:50
Speaker 2: This affects us today, was just going to teach us
39:53
Speaker 2: today and whether or not we can continue on. It
39:55
Speaker 2: is interesting to see how we went from the beginning
39:58
Speaker 2: of one thing to the and now understand when need
40:01
Speaker 2: to go back to that beginning.
40:03
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
40:05
Speaker 2: Because communities are the ones that have been providing the
40:08
Speaker 2: most food when they come together and are able to
40:11
Speaker 2: be sustainable, but also teaching each other to learning from
40:15
Speaker 2: those who already knew how to do this in a
40:17
Speaker 2: responsible manner, that's a bigger conversation. So it's a lot.
40:20
Speaker 2: So what I thought would be a very short episode
40:23
Speaker 2: kind of grew bigger. There's a lot more to the
40:25
Speaker 2: subject that we can come back to. I will give
40:27
Speaker 2: you all updates about my plants, yes please, I now
40:31
Speaker 2: just have lots of basil.
40:32
Speaker 1: Hey, I love basil every time my dog sit for peaches.
40:36
Speaker 1: I give you my grocery list, and I'm like, basil.
40:40
Speaker 1: I'm excited about this because I usually don't get the
40:42
Speaker 1: type of basil I want because they don't sell it
40:45
Speaker 1: at the grocery store. But I think you've got the
40:47
Speaker 1: one I want.
40:48
Speaker 2: I've got four to varieties right now.
40:50
Speaker 1: Yes, because I want my ramen fa basil.
40:54
Speaker 2: So I got that tie basil exactly.
40:57
Speaker 1: That's not what I normally get. I'm always kind of like,
40:59
Speaker 1: this is close enough, but it's not what I exactly want.
41:03
Speaker 2: Yes, I got you. I got you on the basil.
41:05
Speaker 2: But for listeners, if you liked this episode and learning
41:10
Speaker 2: all about the nuance of women in gardening, and you
41:14
Speaker 2: want to have a big conversation about other topics, you
41:18
Speaker 2: should join us on our voyage on October second through
41:21
Speaker 2: the seventh of twenty twenty six from New York to
41:25
Speaker 2: berminaz on Virgin Voyages with Stuff at c Yes, we
41:30
Speaker 2: are going to do a live podcast that you can join.
41:34
Speaker 2: Other podcasters will be there, not as important as us,
41:37
Speaker 2: of course, but you know we love them as well.
41:39
Speaker 2: So if that's something that you're interested in. You want
41:42
Speaker 2: to learn more about women in intertational feminism and you
41:46
Speaker 2: want to talk about it on a voyage out at sea.
41:49
Speaker 2: This is the perfect opportunity.
41:51
Speaker 1: Yes, and you can learn more at Virgin Warges dot
41:54
Speaker 1: com slash stuff. It'll be really fun. We hope to
41:56
Speaker 1: see you and we hope to hear from you. Listener.
42:01
Speaker 1: Tell us about your garden. We want to know. You
42:04
Speaker 1: can email us at Hello at Stuffmannever Told You dot com.
42:07
Speaker 1: You can find us a blue sky at mopsusuff podcast
42:09
Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told
42:11
Speaker 1: You for us on YouTube. We have merchandise at Coppureau
42:14
Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you
42:15
Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks as always to our superducer Casey
42:19
Speaker 1: and our executive producer Maya.
42:22
Speaker 2: Thank you and they see you for listening Stuff.
42:24
Speaker 1: In nevertial Respect from my Heart Radio. For more podcasts
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Speaker 1: from my Heart Radio, you can check out the heart
42:27
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42:29
Speaker 1: favorite shows.