Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 185 - Jim and Elisabeth Elliot’s Extraordinary Sacrifice

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Ep. 185 - Jim and Elisabeth Elliot’s Extraordinary Sacrifice · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:05
  Emeal Zwayne: And so you know, they spent about three years with people that were known as the Kuikkas or the Kuikukkas I don't know how you even say that and then, after that, you know they had started reaching them.
• 1:17
  Emeal Zwayne: They started coming to the Lord, and then his ultimate goal of reaching the Akkas was realized, and so they start, you know, flying over there.
• 1:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Now you have to remember these people were hardly touched by civilization.
• 1:29
  Oscar Navarro: So while he got, when Jim and Elizabeth Elliott and the rest of the crew got to Ecuador at first they were just there to reach lost people in general and in the process of learning the language and understanding the land, they hear about sort of almost like old wives' tales, that there's this tribe out there that nobody can get to, that nobody can reach, that if you get close they'll attack you.
• 1:52
  Oscar Navarro: And his response, while everyone else is like stay away from them.
• 1:55
  Oscar Navarro: Like the Elliott's response was that's where the Lord wants us, not away from danger, but into danger.
• 2:03
  Oscar Navarro: Not because they were adrenaline junkies, but because what they heard were there are people out there who are lost.
• 2:13
  Emeal Zwayne: You guys are obviously familiar with the.
• 2:16
  Emeal Zwayne: Where are they now?
• 2:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Articles and documentaries that?
• 2:20
  Ray Comfort: regularly pop up online.
• 2:21
  Emeal Zwayne: They can be very cruel, annoyingly so sometimes, yeah, but my mind recently went on a where is it now?
• 2:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Journey Like.
• 2:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Where's that funky little outfit that I wore in that picture of me at Disneyland when I was five years old, the one that had the apples on it and looked like a matching pair of underwear and undershirt that my mom dressed me up in?
• 2:39
  Ray Comfort: Oh, we've always wondered about that.
• 2:41
  Emeal Zwayne: That's a true story.
• 2:42
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it was me standing.
• 2:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Winnie the Pooh is somewhere next to me and I'm wearing these tight you guys remember under-roos.
• 2:49
  Mark Spence: Yes, yeah, they were like those.
• 2:51
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, but I looked like I was literally wearing the shortest pair underwear and tight little undershirt with little apples on it A couple years ago Last year actually and I had to.
• 3:03
  Emeal Zwayne: In my mind.
• 3:04
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought you know what?
• 3:05
  Emeal Zwayne: This, that beautiful little outfit, has to be somewhere, right, even if it's buried and decomposing in a dump somewhere, it's got to be somewhere.
• 3:13
  Emeal Zwayne: And so here's a brilliant quote that you can attribute to me for all time Listen, listen really closely.
• 3:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Everything is somewhere.
• 3:24
  Mark Spence: That is really profound.
• 3:27
  Ray Comfort: Well, so you kind of have everything.
• 3:28
  Ray Comfort: Where would you put it?
• 3:29
  Ray Comfort: Everything is somewhere.
• 3:31
  Emeal Zwayne: I love that.
• 3:32
  Emeal Zwayne: But you guys ever seriously wonder, like where in the world is that thing?
• 3:35
  Oscar Navarro: When you said that were you legitimately like amazed with yourself.
• 3:38
  Oscar Navarro: Ah, it was like wow, when you were sitting in your car and you're like everything is somewhere.
• 3:41
  Oscar Navarro: Oh well, I this.
• 3:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it was like I looked to the right, to the left, in front of me, behind me, and then I just real quickly patterned myself that's good, yeah, everywhere is somewhere, now everything.
• 3:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, thank you, oscar For seeing.
• 3:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Oscar memorized my quote, and that's unfortunate.
• 4:02
  Oscar Navarro: But we can start over.
• 4:03
  Oscar Navarro: No, no, no, no, no.
• 4:05
  Emeal Zwayne: I were only two minutes in the profundity of.
• 4:07
  Emeal Zwayne: That is just absolutely glorious.
• 4:10
  Emeal Zwayne: But, yeah, the guys.
• 4:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Come on, though.
• 4:12
  Emeal Zwayne: You have to admit, you look back at pictures sometimes and you're like what did my parents do to me?
• 4:16
  Emeal Zwayne: Pinterest, pinterest, don't you guys?
• 4:19
  Emeal Zwayne: Though, look at pictures at times and think what in the world, why did they dress me this?
• 4:23
  Oscar Navarro: way.
• 4:23
  Oscar Navarro: Why was my hair like that?
• 4:25
  Oscar Navarro: I was a this comedian came on somewhere the other day and it was like a two minute clip and they're like, you know, you think about, like you think what the pictures are grandparents take.
• 4:34
  Oscar Navarro: And when they like show you the pictures, it's like wow, that's you like meeting the vice president.
• 4:40
  Oscar Navarro: Wow, that's like you graduating from college.
• 4:43
  Oscar Navarro: And he's like think about, like, what our great grandkids, when we show them pictures like, wow, that's what you ate for lunch that day.
• 4:51
  Oscar Navarro: Wow, that's the pair of shoes that you got.
• 4:54
  Oscar Navarro: The meaningfulness of pictures today are so much less than the meaningful pictures back.
• 5:00
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, you were careful what you took pictures of back in the day because you knew you had 24 shots.
• 5:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, that you would hope we're going to come out Okay.
• 5:09
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean again, our kids are so disconnected from this.
• 5:11
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know if my kids have ever seen like one of the old.
• 5:14
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, I mean I well, they're good.
• 5:16
  Emeal Zwayne: My daughter is a thing, my daughter, kylie, has a Polaroid, but but I'm talking like the old film.
• 5:20
  Emeal Zwayne: You know cameras that you would, my son still use those old school all the time.
• 5:25
  Oscar Navarro: Our kids, our kids use them too.
• 5:27
  Oscar Navarro: Why?
• 5:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Because they don't have phones.
• 5:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Is it now like let's go back to our kids, don't?
• 5:30
  Oscar Navarro: have phones, so when they go on camping trips and stuff, we'll buy them like a disposable camera and they'll take pictures and then we'll have it developed.
• 5:37
  Oscar Navarro: Wait, they still have disposable cameras.
• 5:39
  Ray Comfort: You guys know nothing.
• 5:40
  Ray Comfort: You've heard of a brownie box.
• 5:41
  Oscar Navarro: A brownie box.
• 5:42
  Oscar Navarro: Is that a box for brownies?
• 5:44
  Ray Comfort: No, no, no.
• 5:44
  Ray Comfort: This is a.
• 5:45
  Ray Comfort: This is before the cameras that you guys talked about.
• 5:47
  Emeal Zwayne: That's not when they would put the blanket over their head and no, that was after that.
• 5:51
  Ray Comfort: It was a little black box, that it was by Kodak and that was the first really domestic camera.
• 5:57
  Ray Comfort: Is that the one that went?
• 6:02
  Ray Comfort: No, no, you're thinking of a race car You're bringing out memories.
• 6:05
  Ray Comfort: I've just remembered no, no, I just remembered.
• 6:07
  Ray Comfort: My parents had a picture of me dressed as a jockey.
• 6:10
  Ray Comfort: What as a jockey, really?
• 6:13
  Ray Comfort: We got to get this picture up, so please, ray, you got to show me that one.
• 6:17
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I just remembered it.
• 6:18
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, no, but but seriously, though, our kids are disconnected from that.
• 6:21
  Emeal Zwayne: But remember you would take your film in to get exposed and then you'd get like five pictures where it's all blurry or like you know, strobed as you're like passing, yeah, but yeah, I've got a thousand.
• 6:33
  Emeal Zwayne: That's funny.
• 6:33
  Emeal Zwayne: I was telling Summer and Mathias the other day I said I have over a thousand pictures in the album I created for my grandson, Haddon, on my phone, Just of yourself, and they laughed at me.
• 6:41
  Emeal Zwayne: I love my grandson.
• 6:45
  Emeal Zwayne: I love my grandson Speaking of dressing up.
• 6:47
  Ray Comfort: No, but real quick, Oscar is that a way of saying shut up yeah?
• 6:51
  Emeal Zwayne: that's the.
• 6:52
  Oscar Navarro: Christian way of saying shut up.
• 6:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Is there a nice way to say shut?
• 6:54
  Oscar Navarro: up you just did it Seriously.
• 6:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Hey bro, can you please say shut up real quick.
• 6:59
  Ray Comfort: No, you can't.
• 7:00
  Ray Comfort: There's no nice way, right, you could separate the words.
• 7:02
  Mark Spence: Yeah, you could say Ray taught me that you can really can say anything as long as you finish it up with precious.
• 7:07
  Mark Spence: When talking to the wife Shut up precious.
• 7:09
  Emeal Zwayne: That's it I do that often Anyway, mathias and Summer they posted me with just Dane they go, that's all.
• 7:16
  Emeal Zwayne: They've got like 20,000 pictures of Haddon.
• 7:20
  Emeal Zwayne: Anyway, speaking of pictures, real quick, rachel just sent this talking about grandmas and pictures.
• 7:24
  Emeal Zwayne: It's Haddon in our storage area in our garage, and he's pointing to an old TV that we have and she said he was singing.
• 7:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Jesus loves the TV Same tune as Jesus loves me, the Sino.
• 7:35
  Emeal Zwayne: That's pretty funny.
• 7:38
  Oscar Navarro: Oh, it's funny.
• 7:38
  Oscar Navarro: Were you dressed up as a jockey for like Halloween or something?
• 7:42
  Ray Comfort: No, it was only for a few years.
• 7:44
  Ray Comfort: I didn't For a few years.
• 7:46
  Oscar Navarro: No, it was just a picture.
• 7:47
  Ray Comfort: I had a cigarette lighter that I was lighting and I was dressed as a jockey.
• 7:51
  Ray Comfort: I was about four.
• 7:53
  Ray Comfort: How funny.
• 7:54
  Oscar Navarro: Wow, that reminded me of one Halloween.
• 7:57
  Oscar Navarro: It was the Halloween that the movie Batman Returns came out and I don't know if you guys remember, but like there was a bunch of controversy in that movie because it was really dark and they thought it was going to be a children's movie.
• 8:06
  Oscar Navarro: Like McDonald's had like bought rights to carry toys and they ended up like backing out of the deal once they saw the movie because it's pretty dark, you know, and one of the main characters is Penguin and this is, I think this is like first or second grade for me.
• 8:20
  Oscar Navarro: Okay, so I watched the movie and I loved it because my mom had no like the rating system for movies didn't matter to my mom back in those days but I wanted to dress up as the Penguin and I wanted to like go all out with like goo coming out of my face and I put all this like stuff on to make me look big and this big old nose and like I just looked morbid.
• 8:41
  Oscar Navarro: And I also had this crush on this girl Lena was her name and I was like man, I look so cool, like you got to take me to her house so that she can see me, because she's going to really like it, because in my first grade head I'm thinking like of course girls are going to like disgusting things.
• 8:56
  Oscar Navarro: How old are you in first grade?
• 8:57
  Oscar Navarro: Five, six?
• 8:59
  Oscar Navarro: So in my mind I'm like girls like gross things, right, like why wouldn't they like gross things?
• 9:04
  Oscar Navarro: So I have like for Halloween, like I have my parents.
• 9:08
  Oscar Navarro: My mom stopped at her house first.
• 9:09
  Oscar Navarro: I knock on her door and the whole time mom's like I don't know if she's going to like this.
• 9:12
  Oscar Navarro: You know, I don't.
• 9:13
  Oscar Navarro: I don't know if this is like what how you get girls to notice you or whatever and Lena opens the door, or her parents open the door and they call Lena over and Lena comes over and she's like that's so cool.
• 9:24
  Oscar Navarro: So I was right.
• 9:26
  Emeal Zwayne: She liked the morbidness she liked it, she did yeah, yeah, that was weird.
• 9:30
  Emeal Zwayne: You are Are All right friends.
• 9:35
  Emeal Zwayne: Enough of this silliness.
• 9:36
  Emeal Zwayne: Here's a comment from Hagan777.
• 9:40
  Emeal Zwayne: Love the guys at Living Waters.
• 9:42
  Emeal Zwayne: They are a great source of biblical truth.
• 9:44
  Emeal Zwayne: I recommend you listen to the podcast.
• 9:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Also, order the evidence study Bible.
• 9:48
  Emeal Zwayne: It has great information.
• 9:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Who said that?
• 9:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Did Hayden?
• 9:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Say that, what's that?
• 9:51
  Emeal Zwayne: And that guy say that Uh, hagen, if it's a guy.
• 9:54
  Emeal Zwayne: yeah, Well, that's nice, isn't that nice?
• 9:55
  Emeal Zwayne: Evidence study Bible, right?
• 9:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Can you take us back to the second that you conceived, the thought of the evidence study Bible?
• 10:03
  Emeal Zwayne: No, you don't remember to think.
• 10:05
  Ray Comfort: No, no, no, no.
• 10:05
  Ray Comfort: I remember I suggested it to the publishers and left it in their court and then they came back.
• 10:13
  Ray Comfort: They came back with a home run, which is a mixing of metaphors Came back Home run.
• 10:18
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, field, you left it in their field.
• 10:19
  Ray Comfort: Hmm, they came back Again a curveball.
• 10:21
  Ray Comfort: They knocked it out of the pocket.
• 10:23
  Mark Spence: How about an evidence study Bible for kids?
• 10:26
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, right there.
• 10:26
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, just give it to kids.
• 10:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Got it Right yeah.
• 10:29
  Ray Comfort: See my book.
• 10:29
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes, just write for kids on it.
• 10:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, don't take care of it.
• 10:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, uh, thank you so much, friend, for writing in.
• 10:37
  Emeal Zwayne: We're blessed that we've been a blessing to you.
• 10:39
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends, this podcast is brought to you by the curved illusion that tracked.
• 10:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Believe it or not, that is the first tracked that I ever saw in Ray comforts hand.
• 10:50
  Emeal Zwayne: What was that in person?
• 10:51
  Emeal Zwayne: You've got to be choking.
• 10:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Curved illusion, oh, really, yeah, but it was pink and blue and larger.
• 10:57
  Emeal Zwayne: I like the pink and blue.
• 10:58
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, pink and blue.
• 10:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Why'd we change it?
• 11:00
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, and blue are better.
• 11:02
  Ray Comfort: That was my idea.
• 11:03
  Ray Comfort: Pink and blue.
• 11:03
  Ray Comfort: You're the one that changed it.
• 11:05
  Ray Comfort: You ruined a joke though, I used to think Pink and blue yeah.
• 11:07
  Oscar Navarro: I can't do that.
• 11:07
  Oscar Navarro: What was the?
• 11:07
  Ray Comfort: joke.
• 11:08
  Ray Comfort: It was right Hold some of those little packets of sugar.
• 11:11
  Ray Comfort: They were pink and blue.
• 11:11
  Ray Comfort: There was equal.
• 11:12
  Ray Comfort: And what was the other one?
• 11:14
  Ray Comfort: I can't remember.
• 11:14
  Ray Comfort: I said which is bigger?
• 11:15
  Ray Comfort: And they'd say this one.
• 11:16
  Ray Comfort: I said, no, this one is equal.
• 11:18
  Ray Comfort: And it was like a joke, and so I can't do that.
• 11:21
  Ray Comfort: I ruined your life.
• 11:21
  Ray Comfort: Yes, you ruined my life.
• 11:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, curved illusion friends.
• 11:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, and we have them, I think in Spanish, but they're in red and green, I think, more fitting.
• 11:31
  Ray Comfort: Oh, no, that's yeah.
• 11:32
  Ray Comfort: This finish flag isn't it?
• 11:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and then we have the Halloween ones Black and orange Orange, and black, black and orange Orange, and also friends.
• 11:42
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• 11:44
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• 11:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Uh, excuse me.
• 11:53
  Ray Comfort: What I was talking about.
• 11:55
  Ray Comfort: One looks longer than the other, what I just want them over to come up, if you're paying attention.
• 11:58
  Emeal Zwayne: it's that looking at Mark's computer.
• 11:59
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, he was looking at sugars Sugars Sweet and low and equal.
• 12:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Equal.
• 12:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, sweet, oh sweet and low, that was that sweet, that's like me yeah.
• 12:10
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• 12:12
  Emeal Zwayne: Hmm, all right, friends, make sure to check those out, along with the track sample pack that I mentioned last time, just, and the evidence study Bible at living waterscom.
• 12:20
  Emeal Zwayne: I'm so calm today, so mellow, so humble.
• 12:24
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends, today we're talking about Jim Elliott and Elizabeth Elliott's extraordinary sacrifice.
• 12:33
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, uh, jim and Elizabeth Elliott have gone down in history in such a way that you cannot hear their names without crying about it.
• 12:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, not crying, oh, no, not again, not this time.
• 12:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Uh, without thinking about, I would say we talked about it with sacrifice, yeah, Sacrifice and love.
• 12:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Uh, first because of what Jim and Nate St and their bunch did, but then what Elizabeth Elliott and the ladies did.
• 13:03
  Emeal Zwayne: After that we'll talk about all that, but they are extraordinary people.
• 13:07
  Emeal Zwayne: I had the privilege of of speaking at a conference, uh, where Elizabeth Elliott's daughter really spoke.
• 13:13
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, oh, there was nothing.
• 13:14
  Ray Comfort: I spoke at a church in 1991.
• 13:17
  Ray Comfort: First time I taught Hell's Best Skip Secret in a local church.
• 13:19
  Ray Comfort: Elizabeth Elliott was in the congregation and came up afterwards.
• 13:22
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, she was.
• 13:23
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow, yeah, did you talk to her?
• 13:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, what did she say to you?
• 13:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Can't remember?
• 13:27
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it was really an honor, in fact.
• 13:31
  Emeal Zwayne: Uh, I ran into her on the elevator and the elevator wasn't working, she's like what do you do with this thing?
• 13:36
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, you were two weeks in the elevator, I was going to the elevator and she's like that's, that's where we met.
• 13:40
  Emeal Zwayne: And then I I didn't know that she was Elizabeth Elliott's daughter, I knew she was going to be speaking there, but then we met and then it was such an honor because I think her husband and other family members you know sat in on on on my teachings and it was just, it was really an honor and a blessing.
• 13:56
  Emeal Zwayne: But yeah, let's jump into their lives.
• 13:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Oscar, why don't you kick us off with a little bit of background?
• 14:02
  Oscar Navarro: on the Elliott's, the Elliott's Uh well, side note, I told you right before the program that, just so happens, like a week before you sent the text for the idea of doing this program on Jim and Elizabeth Elliott, I had so happened to buy Elizabeth Elliott's new biography.
• 14:18
  Oscar Navarro: Oh, so I'm only a handful of chapters in, but so far it's really good.
• 14:22
  Oscar Navarro: It's called, uh, elizabeth Elliott a life, I think that's what it's called.
• 14:26
  Oscar Navarro: But yeah, I mean, uh, the story starts out with Jim Elliott and his friends.
• 14:30
  Oscar Navarro: They were from, uh, I think, portland area.
• 14:32
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, right, right, they had this strong desire to go and be missionaries and, uh, that that process ended up taking them to Ecuador, I believe.
• 14:42
  Oscar Navarro: And in in so going to Ecuador, there was a tribe of people that were unreached and they were known locally, in the local language, as savages.
• 14:54
  Oscar Navarro: Uh, and I know that can be a derogatory term, but that is what the other Indian tribes, how they reference these Ecuadorians.
• 15:01
  Oscar Navarro: Their homicide rate was 60%.
• 15:04
  Oscar Navarro: They rarely lived to the age of 30 when, whether it was farmers or other missionaries or other tribes people, anytime somebody would approach this area of the jungle, they would be met with spears and death, and so.
• 15:20
  Ray Comfort: So when you say 60% they, they, the tribe had that rate of 60% homicide rate yeah, and they were.
• 15:26
  Emeal Zwayne: They were called back then the Ocas and and now they're.
• 15:29
  Emeal Zwayne: They're called the, the Waddoni.
• 15:31
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, so the Oca means it is in their native language as uh, savage, which is why, at first, when Americans went over there, they thought that was the link, that was the name of the tribe, because that's what all the other tribes call them.
• 15:43
  Oscar Navarro: And then they realized, when they started translating the language into English, they realized that it was a derogatory term used for them that has meant savage, and so they found the Waddonis yeah, waddoni.
• 15:53
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, yeah, and, and you know what I love about about the story of Jim Elliot is and and uh, christianitycom really gives a good layout, kind of of, of the story, but it says that when he was a little boy in Oregon, he he sat around listening to missionaries who would visit, you know, his family and and he'd listen to their stories about the mission field and he'd he'd ask them questions and and like inquire about that and and he was heartbroken that there were people in other lands dying without the gospel.
• 16:28
  Emeal Zwayne: And, mark, I think this is this is a good place to to reiterate something you've shared before about how people who say, hey, if people die without hearing the gospel, then they're going to go to heaven and so therefore, you know, or what about those tribes, right, that have never heard of the gospel?
• 16:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Obviously they're going to go to heaven because they never heard the gospel.
• 16:50
  Emeal Zwayne: You point out the fallacies in that and what we should do then instead of preach the gospel.
• 16:57
  Mark Spence: Yeah, when somebody asks the question, you know what happens to the person who's never heard.
• 17:00
  Mark Spence: Usually when that question is asked from a skeptic, it's from the angle of go talk to them, or I don't care, or obviously Jesus isn't the only way.
• 17:09
  Mark Spence: But the truth is that the way we are supposed to answer that question, I believe, is there's an urgency attached to the mission.
• 17:19
  Mark Spence: We need to go into the highways, byways and getaways compel people to come, because if you don't go through Jesus Christ, you go to hell.
• 17:27
  Mark Spence: There's no name under heaven given among men where by which man must be saved.
• 17:31
  Mark Spence: You have to go through Jesus Christ.
• 17:33
  Mark Spence: If there is another way to get to heaven and not go through Jesus Christ, well then.
• 17:38
  Mark Spence: Jesus died in vain.
• 17:39
  Mark Spence: So, salvation though it's a free gift for us, it costs the Father everything.
• 17:44
  Mark Spence: You have to go through Jesus.
• 17:46
  Mark Spence: Ultimately, what happens to an individual who has sinned against God, has not repented of their sins and placed their trust in Jesus?
• 17:55
  Mark Spence: They go to hell.
• 17:56
  Mark Spence: And I don't say that with join my lips, that's just the fact of the matter, because you have to go through Jesus.
• 18:03
  Mark Spence: If there is another way to get to heaven and not go through Jesus, well then, and here's what this is the saying.
• 18:09
  Mark Spence: This is perhaps what you're relating to.
• 18:11
  Mark Spence: We don't send missionaries into the 1040 window to try to reach people that have never heard about Jesus.
• 18:17
  Mark Spence: Instead, we should be sending general contractors who can build big walls around these huts, hoping that a missionary doesn't go inside there, and then they're held accountable.
• 18:28
  Mark Spence: Why are we sending missionaries?
• 18:29
  Mark Spence: Because there is an urgency.
• 18:31
  Mark Spence: Why is there an urgency?
• 18:32
  Mark Spence: Because if you die without Christ, you go to hell.
• 18:34
  Mark Spence: That's what happens, so we have to send missionaries.
• 18:40
  Mark Spence: We go into the highways, byways and getaways.
• 18:42
  Mark Spence: Leonard Ravenhill said most Christians spend more money on dog food than they do on missions, and that's true.
• 18:49
  Mark Spence: I mean, think about how much money you have put towards the mission field or towards missionaries, and we spend more money on the most trivial things.
• 19:02
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, tell the dog that.
• 19:03
  Mark Spence: Yeah right, so that's the same.
• 19:08
  Mark Spence: I mean we need to be careful.
• 19:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah and Ray, we're talking about missions here, and a lot of times you'll get people that are eager to go out on the mission field but they're not sharing the gospel at home.
• 19:21
  Emeal Zwayne: Wouldn't you like in that to a doctor who has people that are dying all around him and he has the capability of helping them, but he's saying no, no, no, I'm going to go help the dying people in this other country and never does anything?
• 19:33
  Emeal Zwayne: Again, not that people don't have a call, but if you're not witnessing at home, there's a disconnect between that and you wanting to go be a missionary elsewhere.
• 19:41
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, I know of an often forgotten unreached people's group.
• 19:44
  Ray Comfort: The woman hardly wear any clothes.
• 19:46
  Ray Comfort: They paint their faces.
• 19:47
  Ray Comfort: They're so primitive.
• 19:48
  Ray Comfort: They have piercings through their tongues, the eyebrows, the lips and nose.
• 19:51
  Ray Comfort: These people actually think they're ancestors of apes.
• 19:54
  Ray Comfort: They speak in an unclean language and so evil they kill their own offspring.
• 19:58
  Ray Comfort: This often overlooked millions can be found in colleges and universities throughout the United States.
• 20:04
  Ray Comfort: There's something exciting about missions overseas and something mundane about witnessing in your own city.
• 20:10
  Ray Comfort: It doesn't have that kind of excitement to it, but unreached people who are just a nearer are just as lost as people who are far.
• 20:18
  Ray Comfort: Many of us overlook their own people to look overseas, so we need to start in Jerusalem and then go into the outermost part of the earth.
• 20:27
  Ray Comfort: That's good.
• 20:28
  Mark Spence: I'm overseas.
• 20:31
  Emeal Zwayne: You are overseas, ray.
• 20:31
  Emeal Zwayne: You are actually a long term missionary, to think about it, coming from New Zealand here.
• 20:36
  Mark Spence: I think it was Oswald Sanders who said we talk of the second coming when half the world hasn't heard of the first.
• 20:42
  Ray Comfort: That's right, he was in New Zealand, wasn't he?
• 20:43
  Mark Spence: Oswald Sanders, he can repent.
• 20:44
  Mark Spence: No, he can't repent of that.
• 20:45
  Mark Spence: That's what it is.
• 20:47
  Ray Comfort: It can be born again, born again.
• 20:49
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I've often said when missionaries are a part of a church that isn't sharing the gospel locally, what do you think is going to happen when they go abroad?
• 21:02
  Emeal Zwayne: They're going to emulate the model of their church, they're going to get there and not share the gospel and they're going to start looking to send their people elsewhere who are going to go and not share the gospel.
• 21:13
  Emeal Zwayne: I think the most effective missionaries are those that are part of a community that is passionate about the gospel at home, and then they're like okay, well, we've been reaching the lost.
• 21:22
  Emeal Zwayne: Here we see that our church has plenty of labors.
• 21:25
  Emeal Zwayne: There are other parts of the world that haven't heard of the gospel.
• 21:27
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, let's go.
• 21:28
  Emeal Zwayne: That's good, and when they do that, they can go with a clear conscience and also with an exercised life in the proclamation of the gospel.
• 21:39
  Ray Comfort: And I love the way he said proclamation the gospel, because remember, rachel went overseas to India with a missionary group and sat above I think it was Bombay on a hill and prayed for the city.
• 21:49
  Mark Spence: They didn't preach the home yeah could have done it at home.
• 21:51
  Ray Comfort: Sit here and pray for Bombay here, yeah, but the view was nice.
• 21:55
  Ray Comfort: It was a night, not in Bombay, you couldn't probably see the city.
• 21:58
  Ray Comfort: But yeah, go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature, and that's a news words.
• 22:04
  Emeal Zwayne: If necessary, then St Francis, a sissy yeah, what was st Francis?
• 22:11
  Ray Comfort: a sissy?
• 22:13
  Emeal Zwayne: That's.
• 22:13
  Emeal Zwayne: That's a play on friends.
• 22:14
  Emeal Zwayne: For those who don't know, st Francis of a sissy, but he didn't actually say that.
• 22:19
  Ray Comfort: No, well, it can't be saying yeah yeah, it was his mother, was his mother.
• 22:25
  Emeal Zwayne: Or his sissy, finally, finally.
• 22:30
  Emeal Zwayne: So Jim Elliott's a kid, right.
• 22:32
  Emeal Zwayne: He's hearing missionaries come and talk, which I think is is Good to remember that our kids can be influenced at a young age.
• 22:39
  Ray Comfort: That's what influence my kids have.
• 22:41
  Ray Comfort: Missionaries come from Hawaii.
• 22:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Tahiti.
• 22:44
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, seriously though I mean you may not be able to get missionaries to come sit in your home, but man expose your kids to biographies.
• 22:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Yes we did that a lot with our kids growing up.
• 22:53
  Emeal Zwayne: We would read biographies, we had these, these books called hero tales, and they would just get the kids exposed.
• 22:59
  Ray Comfort: I ran out of biographies to read this.
• 23:01
  Ray Comfort: A bit of a dearth in them.
• 23:03
  Oscar Navarro: I like that lovely to be more seriously, I'm in a season of reading memoirs and biographies right now.
• 23:08
  Oscar Navarro: There's some really good ones out there.
• 23:10
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:11
  Emeal Zwayne: So so Jim Elliott says he's impacted by that and he thinks, man, that's, that's what I want to do.
• 23:15
  Emeal Zwayne: And so, february 2nd 1952.
• 23:18
  Emeal Zwayne: He bids his parents goodbye, he hops on a ship for an oh think of this an 18-day trip, 18 days like a cruise, a royal crew, he had a suntan lotion and everything they say he leaves from here.
• 23:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Actually, here in California, they leave out a San Pedro, they go to a keto Ecuador, south America, keto diet, keto.
• 23:42
  Mark Spence: That's where it started.
• 23:43
  Emeal Zwayne: That's all for missionaries, and I had his partner, pete Fleming, with them and they spent a year and Keto learning to speak Spanish.
• 23:50
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, that, that's you know.
• 23:52
  Emeal Zwayne: That is real missionary work.
• 23:54
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, hmm, short-term missions I think they have their place.
• 23:57
  Emeal Zwayne: They can sometimes, I think, be counterproductive, honestly, depending on whether those going are going out on a tour as Tourists in their minds or if they're going to catch a vision and and actually learn how to support.
• 24:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, you know, the missionaries, that's what mission they learn the language so they can assimilate and be able to impact the people.
• 24:18
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, that reminds me we've talked off to about acts 17, about Paul and the Greco-Roman world and Athens.
• 24:23
  Oscar Navarro: He showed up as a missionary, essentially in Athens to preach the gospel, but he spent time Understanding their culture, meeting him where they were, helping them, pulling them towards Christ by understanding their longest needs and their ways of religiosity.
• 24:38
  Oscar Navarro: And and I think Jim Iliad doesn't a great job of that.
• 24:42
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, big time.
• 24:43
  Emeal Zwayne: And so you know they, they spent about three years with people that were known as the Quicas or the quick who has, I don't even say that.
• 24:52
  Emeal Zwayne: And then, after that, you know, they had started reaching them.
• 24:55
  Emeal Zwayne: They started coming to the Lord and then his ultimate goal of reaching the Akkas Was realized and so they start, you know, flying over there and I have to remember these people were were hardly touched by civilization.
• 25:08
  Oscar Navarro: So while he got what?
• 25:09
  Oscar Navarro: When Jim and Elizabeth Elliott and the rest of the crew got to Ecuador, at first they were just there to reach lost people in general and in the process of learning the language and understanding the land they hear about Sort of almost like old wives tales that there's this tribe out there that nobody can get to, that nobody can reach.
• 25:28
  Oscar Navarro: If you get close they'll attack you.
• 25:30
  Oscar Navarro: And his response while everyone else is like stay away from them.
• 25:34
  Oscar Navarro: Like the Elliott's response was that's where the Lord wants us, not away from danger, but into danger.
• 25:41
  Oscar Navarro: Not because they were adrenaline junkies, but because what they heard were there are people out there who are lost Christ.
• 25:49
  Ray Comfort: We're gonna drop pink and blue tracks by helicopter.
• 25:52
  Oscar Navarro: They actually started.
• 25:53
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, they took their plane.
• 25:55
  Oscar Navarro: The guys took their plane and flew around and until they found the tribe and what they started doing is I think they called it the gift drop campaign.
• 26:03
  Oscar Navarro: So they basically would fly over the tribe and drop gifts from the airplane and then go land I don't know 20 or 30 miles away, spend the night, wake up the next day and do that over and over and over again to sort of initiate contact with them.
• 26:17
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and you know they.
• 26:19
  Emeal Zwayne: They knew the dangers involved with the Aucas Absolutely, because they had killed a lot of the people that they had reached or who they spent those three years with.
• 26:26
  Emeal Zwayne: And then they were also killing people who were in the region drilling for oil.
• 26:29
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, these guys were, they were murderous and violent people.
• 26:33
  Ray Comfort: So why were they killing?
• 26:34
  Ray Comfort: Was there any reason for it?
• 26:36
  Ray Comfort: Just nasty sin?
• 26:38
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, I and that, and probably maybe a fear of you know what are they gonna do to us?
• 26:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Or maybe they had a mindset.
• 26:44
  Emeal Zwayne: These order.
• 26:44
  Ray Comfort: they have a demonic religion that says you get yourself a Mortality by killing other people.
• 26:49
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, yeah you know what, though?
• 26:50
  Oscar Navarro: This is actually a good place to put this, because oftentimes what you'll hear from the secular world is like oh, those missionaries, those Christians, they go into these you know abridged inist tribes and they bring sickness and disease and ultimately, the only reason why they ever wanted to go in there Wasn't because they wanted to tell them about Jesus, but it was because they wanted to inoculate into them, into Western civilization.
• 27:11
  Oscar Navarro: Right Like this was like the conquistadors of Spain type thing, and the problem with that narrative is that often they they position Native Americans as like these Peaceful communities that were living in great harmony, that were at one with the land.
• 27:27
  Oscar Navarro: But the reality is many of these tribes, including this tribe here is a great example we're not living peacefully.
• 27:36
  Oscar Navarro: Many of the tribes the missionaries were trying to meet were sacrificing living babies on burning altars.
• 27:43
  Oscar Navarro: They would witness them.
• 27:45
  Oscar Navarro: The melting skin of an infant child Again, 60% homicide rate.
• 27:50
  Oscar Navarro: And so the point is Nobody shows up to a land like that and go oh, that's your way of doing thing.
• 27:56
  Oscar Navarro: Who am I to judge?
• 27:57
  Oscar Navarro: You guys, do it your way and we're gonna do it ours.
• 27:59
  Oscar Navarro: No, like you it's.
• 28:00
  Oscar Navarro: It's like you talk about all the time.
• 28:02
  Oscar Navarro: It's like, man, you have a cure for a disease.
• 28:05
  Oscar Navarro: This isn't about advancing Jim Ali.
• 28:08
  Oscar Navarro: I didn't give a rip about advancing Western civilization.
• 28:11
  Oscar Navarro: He cared about their souls and that's why he put his life at risk.
• 28:15
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, well stated.
• 28:16
  Emeal Zwayne: You know, mark, we look at danger as Christians almost as Sort of a stopgate for us to go and do things for the sake of the kingdom.
• 28:26
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean you know scripture talks about if anyone suffers, you know, for for wrongdoing, he should be ashamed.
• 28:32
  Emeal Zwayne: But but there is an appropriate suffering associated with us as Christians for the sake of the gospel.
• 28:38
  Emeal Zwayne: But the church was birthed in danger, like it's all that they knew.
• 28:43
  Mark Spence: Yeah, some have been appointed to suffer for his namesake.
• 28:45
  Mark Spence: Yeah, you know what is the exact quote.
• 28:48
  Mark Spence: You guys will probably know it that the blood of the martyrs is the seat of the church.
• 28:52
  Mark Spence: That'll right, it's the way God works.
• 28:54
  Mark Spence: If you were to ask Jim, would you go and do it all over again?
• 28:57
  Mark Spence: And hindsight you know he would say yes.
• 29:01
  Mark Spence: Yeah, you know that's, that's just the way it is, because where are these the lamb to receive the reward of his suffering?
• 29:06
  Mark Spence: I'll go anywhere, as long as it's forward.
• 29:09
  Mark Spence: Somebody once said and I've kind of echoed it many times sons, you know, as long as the Lord is in it, I'm good.
• 29:14
  Mark Spence: And then there's that element of faith.
• 29:15
  Mark Spence: You know at what point perhaps was Jim a part of it and where he was just saying Maybe we should have waited another month.
• 29:22
  Mark Spence: Yeah, what's going on there, second guessing in the midst of all of that's happening.
• 29:27
  Mark Spence: But listen, trials and tribulation and persecution and sufferings, all of these things are really God's avenue to establish the fact that and a reminder that this is not our home, that we are passing through, that we're foreigners in a foreign land, that we're homesick for a home we've never been to and we're in love with the God we've never seen and in love with the God we've never heard.
• 29:49
  Mark Spence: That is the right mindset of a Christian as trials and things come your way.
• 29:56
  Mark Spence: If you're not winning people for Christ, if you're not attempting to move forward and to march forward on your knees and to do these things that God has called us and commanded us and commissioned us to do, well then what are you doing?
• 30:09
  Mark Spence: What are you doing of eternal value?
• 30:11
  Mark Spence: David Platt said Jesus has not given us a commission to consider.
• 30:15
  Mark Spence: He's given us a command to obey.
• 30:18
  Mark Spence: John Piper was asked the question.
• 30:21
  Mark Spence: So are you saying that my kids need all become missionaries?
• 30:25
  Mark Spence: He says well, no, your son's already a missionary.
• 30:27
  Mark Spence: Just where's the missionary at that's?
• 30:29
  Emeal Zwayne: good, that's good.
• 30:30
  Mark Spence: You know, missions exist because worship does not.
• 30:32
  Mark Spence: He went on to say because worship does not exist in this area.
• 30:35
  Mark Spence: Thus, this is why we bring the name of Jesus Christ.
• 30:38
  Mark Spence: So if not you, then who?
• 30:41
  Mark Spence: If not now, then when?
• 30:42
  Mark Spence: Right to get that plan together and go.
• 30:45
  Mark Spence: And it's not enough to learn, it's not enough to be the dead sea where there's that inlet, you need to have the outlet as well.
• 30:52
  Mark Spence: So start with the man in the mirror, move on to family and friends and to coworkers, go to the person across the street and from Jerusalem to Judea, samaria, to the uttermost parts of the earth.
• 31:02
  Mark Spence: That is the command Go, go, go, go.
• 31:05
  Ray Comfort: Have you seen churches that have got on the inside of the doors?
• 31:08
  Ray Comfort: You walk out of the church.
• 31:09
  Ray Comfort: You're now entering a mission field.
• 31:10
  Ray Comfort: I love that.
• 31:11
  Ray Comfort: That's good.
• 31:12
  Mark Spence: I like what Justin Peter said concerning missions, justin Bieber, well, actually I'll go back to Jim Elliott first.
• 31:18
  Mark Spence: Jim Elliott said you don't need a verse when you have.
• 31:21
  Mark Spence: You don't need a voice when you have a verse.
• 31:23
  Mark Spence: Okay, if God's calling me to go, I'm willing to go.
• 31:26
  Mark Spence: In the meantime, I'm gonna stay.
• 31:27
  Mark Spence: No, that's not it.
• 31:29
  Mark Spence: God's already called us to go.
• 31:31
  Mark Spence: What you need to say is I'm going to go but I'm willing to stay, Should God call me to stay.
• 31:36
  Mark Spence: But the question is how is God gonna call you to stay when he's already called you to go?
• 31:40
  Mark Spence: Right, you don't need a voice when you have a verse.
• 31:43
  Mark Spence: If you wanna, if you want God to speak to you, read his word.
• 31:46
  Mark Spence: If you want God to speak to you out loud, read his word out loud.
• 31:49
  Mark Spence: There is the commission Now go, and he's with you always, even at the end of the age.
• 31:54
  Ray Comfort: If you want God to speak to you, loudly read the Amplified Bible.
• 31:59
  Emeal Zwayne: Well, I love Paul's approach.
• 32:01
  Emeal Zwayne: He was going places and then it said the spirit forbade us.
• 32:04
  Emeal Zwayne: It's like they were just going.
• 32:05
  Emeal Zwayne: It's like all right, lord, you can stop us, I know if you want to, all right.
• 32:09
  Emeal Zwayne: So then after, again, after they start going and trying to check out where the Aucas were at, they were flying over and then they thought, okay, let's show some friendly gestures.
• 32:18
  Emeal Zwayne: So they started lowering that bucket that Oscar mentioned.
• 32:21
  Emeal Zwayne: They were giving them supplies and stuff.
• 32:22
  Emeal Zwayne: They had a Hell's Biscuit Secret without the cover.
• 32:26
  Emeal Zwayne: They had a and in and out gift cards.
• 32:28
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, they had a speaker and they would just speak out friendly Aucas sort of phrases to show them, hey, we mean well, we mean well.
• 32:36
  Emeal Zwayne: And then eventually, when they felt, okay, this is safe because the Aucas had actually gave them a gift one time in the bucket back to them, so they thought, oh, you know, this is friendship, like they want to interact with us.
• 32:51
  Ray Comfort: What was the gift?
• 32:52
  Mark Spence: Hell's Biscuit Secret, the heads of the enemy.
• 32:55
  Mark Spence: It was a voodoo doll with a bunch of pins stuck in, so they didn't get the message.
• 32:59
  Mark Spence: That was a good question.
• 33:00
  Mark Spence: I wonder what was in it.
• 33:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah.
• 33:01
  Emeal Zwayne: So then they thought, okay, we're going to make our approach, and that was a big deal.
• 33:05
  Emeal Zwayne: So they found a beach that seemed long enough for them to land.
• 33:08
  Emeal Zwayne: They landed the plane.
• 33:09
  Emeal Zwayne: They had made calls after they landed the people you know, telling them hey, come to the beach, come to the beach.
• 33:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Four days later, a couple of people come down.
• 33:16
  Emeal Zwayne: It was hard to communicate with them Finally-.
• 33:18
  Mark Spence: What do you mean?
• 33:19
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, at first it seemed friendly.
• 33:20
  Emeal Zwayne: They said to them okay, bring more people, bring more people.
• 33:23
  Emeal Zwayne: And so they waited a couple of days, and this is where the story picks up, and-.
• 33:31
  Ray Comfort: Well, you're going to cry with this one.
• 33:32
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh man, I don't want to cry.
• 33:33
  Emeal Zwayne: You're an ugly cryer too.
• 33:34
  Ray Comfort: We don't want to see it.
• 33:35
  Mark Spence: It's terrible.
• 33:36
  Ray Comfort: Haven't we got a veil to put out of your?
• 33:37
  Emeal Zwayne: face like those.
• 33:38
  Emeal Zwayne: I know it's my crying.
• 33:39
  Emeal Zwayne: So it says.
• 33:40
  Emeal Zwayne: The missionaries waited for other alkaists to return for the next two days.
• 33:43
  Emeal Zwayne: Finally, two alka women walked out of the jungle on day six.
• 33:47
  Emeal Zwayne: Jim and Pete excitedly jumped in the river and waited over to them.
• 33:49
  Emeal Zwayne: As they got closer, these women did not appear friendly.
• 33:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Jim and Pete almost immediately heard a terrifying cry behind them.
• 33:55
  Emeal Zwayne: As they turned, they saw a group of alka warriors with their spears raised, ready to throw.
• 34:01
  Emeal Zwayne: Jim Elliott reached for the gun in his pocket.
• 34:03
  Emeal Zwayne: He had to decide instantly if he should use it.
• 34:06
  Emeal Zwayne: Huh, why, why did you say it right?
• 34:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Sorry, but he knew he couldn't.
• 34:13
  Emeal Zwayne: Each of the missionaries had promised they would not kill an alka who did not know Jesus to save himself from being killed.
• 34:20
  Ray Comfort: Do you want us to stand behind you and hold your vocal cords?
• 34:24
  Emeal Zwayne: No.
• 34:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Within seconds the alka warriors threw their spears, killing the missionaries and Macaulay, roger Yoderain, nate St, pete Fleming and Jim Elliott.
• 34:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Later, in the afternoon of Sunday January 8, elizabeth Elliott, jim's wife, waited by the two-way radio to hear Nate St and his wife discussed how things had gone that day, but there was no call.
• 34:45
  Emeal Zwayne: As evening turned to night, the wives grew worried.
• 34:47
  Emeal Zwayne: They knew the news was not good.
• 34:49
  Emeal Zwayne: The next morning another missionary pilot flew over the beach to look for the men.
• 34:53
  Emeal Zwayne: He saw only the badly damaged plane on the beach.
• 34:56
  Emeal Zwayne: News quickly spread around the world about the five missing missionaries.
• 35:00
  Emeal Zwayne: United States search team went to the beach, found the missionaries' bodies and buried them.
• 35:06
  Mark Spence: So they didn't take the bodies, no, they killed them and left them there.
• 35:09
  Emeal Zwayne: They killed them.
• 35:10
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, have you guys watched the End of the Spear?
• 35:12
  Mark Spence: It's been a while yeah.
• 35:14
  Emeal Zwayne: That movie, I think, depicted what happened.
• 35:16
  Oscar Navarro: Is that the documentary or the?
• 35:18
  Emeal Zwayne: reenactment.
• 35:18
  Mark Spence: It's a reenactment.
• 35:20
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it's a drama, but that scene of what happened, I mean here they were and but again, just that thought he could have saved their lives right there and then.
• 35:30
  Emeal Zwayne: But they made that ultimate sacrifice and then what blows me away is then what ended up happening After, where Elizabeth Elliott ended up with the other women Ended up and her two-year-old daughter.
• 35:45
  Emeal Zwayne: Moving there so, and Richard, so Oscar picked that up.
• 35:50
  Oscar Navarro: This is where I'm at.
• 35:51
  Oscar Navarro: In her biography that you know, they find out that their husbands die, and Elizabeth Elliott.
• 35:57
  Oscar Navarro: In this biography they talk about how her and the other wives which they just didn't know what to do, and they just lost all their husbands.
• 36:02
  Oscar Navarro: She has this two-year-old daughter I think she was, no, she wasn't even two yet, actually, and she was anyway a newborn baby daughter and she started praying Like what am I to do?
• 36:12
  Oscar Navarro: Am I going back, you know, to the States?
• 36:13
  Oscar Navarro: What will you have me do, lord?
• 36:16
  Oscar Navarro: And through those prayers she felt God call her to go to the tribe.
• 36:21
  Oscar Navarro: And she admits through letters that they now know like she was pet.
• 36:26
  Oscar Navarro: She did not want to go.
• 36:26
  Oscar Navarro: She didn't know she was going to go and resent them.
• 36:29
  Oscar Navarro: She didn't know she was going to like risk her daughter's life as well, but ultimately she was faithful to the Lord.
• 36:35
  Oscar Navarro: Her and one of their wife walk out into the tribe.
• 36:38
  Oscar Navarro: They meet the tribesmen and this time they accept them into the community and they end up living with them for several years and I mean there's pictures of her and her daughter there being educated by them and educating them, sharing the gospel with them, living among the very people who took her husband's life, acting out forgiveness for the sake of the gospel and putting herself and her daughter at risk.
• 37:03
  Mark Spence: And how did they get received?
• 37:04
  Mark Spence: I didn't.
• 37:05
  Mark Spence: I don't know the story, that aspect of it.
• 37:07
  Mark Spence: Why were they now received before they weren't received?
• 37:10
  Mark Spence: So because they were females?
• 37:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah that's a good question.
• 37:12
  Emeal Zwayne: I don't know, I haven't gotten that far in the book.
• 37:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and you think about what that did to them?
• 37:19
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean the gospel spread through the tribe.
• 37:21
  Oscar Navarro: Yeah, and they were one of the guys who killed the men ended up getting baptized and became like a local pastor, One of the guys that threw the spear.
• 37:31
  Oscar Navarro: Isn't that crazy?
• 37:34
  Emeal Zwayne: It's absolutely beautiful, ray.
• 37:35
  Emeal Zwayne: I think this coincides with what you often say don't pray for less fear, pray for more love.
• 37:41
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, that's true.
• 37:41
  Ray Comfort: The biography, or is it called Through the Gates of Splendor?
• 37:46
  Ray Comfort: That's Elizabeth Elliott wrote that.
• 37:47
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, that was her first book.
• 37:48
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, and that's the story we're talking about.
• 37:51
  Ray Comfort: Yes, exactly yeah.
• 37:51
  Ray Comfort: And End of the Spear is the movie.
• 37:54
  Ray Comfort: It's the movie.
• 37:55
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, yeah, what love and action.
• 37:57
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and I think that's what it ultimately comes down to.
• 38:01
  Emeal Zwayne: It's stepping back and saying look, we're not left without a great example, like I talked in the last podcast, from God himself on what love entails.
• 38:11
  Emeal Zwayne: Christ came down to die and that's so much, infinitely worse than what we could suffer at the hands of man, because he was suffering at the hands of his creation.
• 38:23
  Emeal Zwayne: He was being nailed to a piece of wood that came from a tree he made.
• 38:28
  Emeal Zwayne: He was nailed by spikes that came from the elements of the earth that he fashioned and formed.
• 38:33
  Emeal Zwayne: He was blasphemed by vocal cords and tongues and lips that he fashioned and formed, and he was going to experience that separation from the Father as he bore the sins of the world.
• 38:46
  Mark Spence: What's the illustration you give?
• 38:47
  Mark Spence: Easy on the Chihuahua.
• 38:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it's one I heard years ago.
• 38:52
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, it's like imagine us becoming Chihuahuas to save a breed of ravenous pit bulls and doberman pinchers that we knew were going to devour us and we did it to save them.
• 39:03
  Oscar Navarro: Elizabeth Elliott, in one of her books, talks about how, for statistically speaking, like how, her two years with the tribal people you could say sort of ended in failure, or at least she said that during that two years she felt like it was ending in failure Because, even though a few of them got saved including one of the murderers for the most part they didn't accept the gospel.
• 39:24
  Oscar Navarro: And it was met with a lot of challenges.
• 39:26
  Oscar Navarro: And that's an important aspect, because what Elizabeth Elliott says in her book is that in those moments we are faithful to the Lord, not because of the results that he wants to produce outside of us, but because of the results he's producing inside of us.
• 39:41
  Oscar Navarro: And so she would say that, like she's thankful for that time, because of the way it shaped her to be more like her savior.
• 39:49
  Oscar Navarro: And Elizabeth Elliott has an extraordinary life.
• 39:53
  Oscar Navarro: She spent two years with the people who murdered her husband.
• 39:56
  Oscar Navarro: She then gets remarried and her husband of four years dies of cancer.
• 40:01
  Oscar Navarro: She's the author of over 20 books, including Passion and Purity Let Me Be a Woman, which is all about complementarianism, and through the Gates of Splendor which you mentioned, she ends up becoming a contributor to the NIV, which is incredible.
• 40:14
  Oscar Navarro: She becomes a professor, a teaching professor at Gordon Conwell University, and this is actually one of my.
• 40:19
  Oscar Navarro: This is the reason why I wanted to read her biography is because I was reading another book that talked about how she would give lectures, about teaching.
• 40:27
  Oscar Navarro: She was a complementarian and she would give these lectures and she would start the class Like every, every semester.
• 40:34
  Oscar Navarro: She would start with this thing and multiple people have said, like they've heard her say this.
• 40:39
  Oscar Navarro: She would get up and she'd be like I know the original language is better.
• 40:41
  Oscar Navarro: She's talking to men that are going to be future pastors.
• 40:44
  Oscar Navarro: She's like I know the language is better than you do.
• 40:46
  Oscar Navarro: I've communicated to tens of thousands of people.
• 40:48
  Oscar Navarro: I've written over 20 books, I know the language, I know the gospel, likely better than you ever will, and yet you are the ones that are called to preach.
• 40:57
  Oscar Navarro: So get out your pen and paper and take notes, because the church needs you.
• 41:00
  Oscar Navarro: And out of those classes Kevin D Young, rc Sproul and the Kellers, not to mention who knows however many other pastors they've all been inspired.
• 41:11
  Oscar Navarro: They've all taken her courses and been inspired by her classes, absolutely amazing.
• 41:15
  Emeal Zwayne: And you know, we know the most famous quote by Jim Elliott he is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
• 41:24
  Emeal Zwayne: That's so true and that's basically what his philosophy was.
• 41:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Now listen to this quote by him, and this is from a man who was unwilling to accept the way of escape, even though he had it right In terms of his life.
• 41:37
  Emeal Zwayne: But listen to what he said.
• 41:38
  Emeal Zwayne: Unwillingness to accept God's way of escape from temptation frightens me.
• 41:44
  Emeal Zwayne: What a rebel yet resides within God.
• 41:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Mercifully gives us a way of escape from temptation and we're unwilling to take it Like it's right there.
• 41:56
  Emeal Zwayne: Hey, you can be free from this.
• 41:57
  Emeal Zwayne: No, I'm going to give into this.
• 41:59
  Emeal Zwayne: That's terrifying.
• 42:01
  Mark Spence: Especially in light of the fact that we say God is so faithful, is he faithful, he's so trustworthy, and then we go in sin.
• 42:07
  Mark Spence: Wait, is he faithful and trustworthy?
• 42:09
  Mark Spence: Well then, trust the plan, you know.
• 42:11
  Mark Spence: But isn't it the case that we often will shun that and we say that God is not faithful through our actions, every time we take a bite of that apple, every time we nibble on the things of this world and not go after the things of God.
• 42:26
  Mark Spence: You know, god forbid, there needs to be a fire lit underneath us so that we go even harder.
• 42:30
  Mark Spence: And that's what trials do, right, and when we try to, and we Ray, we say tongue in cheek with refiners fire.
• 42:37
  Ray Comfort: We don't want to give it.
• 42:39
  Mark Spence: But, truth be told, god's not going to give us what we don't need, right?
• 42:43
  Mark Spence: He's not just going to go all right, you saying that, or you hum that, or you did that, well, I'm going to turn on the fire.
• 42:48
  Mark Spence: For no, no specific reason.
• 42:49
  Mark Spence: No, god doesn't waste anything, right?
• 42:52
  Mark Spence: Everything instead of our life is hand given, hand, directed, hand picked by God in order to make us into the image of His Son more and more and to prepare us for every good work.
• 43:03
  Mark Spence: We don't have to worry that God is behind the scenes, busy with a lot of different things, and saying, oh, you like saying refiners fire, or you're not wanting to do that, and he just kind of spanks us along the way.
• 43:14
  Mark Spence: God is not like that, right.
• 43:16
  Mark Spence: Everything that God does instead of our life is purposeful, unlike us as we kind of meander through this maze kind of making decisions.
• 43:24
  Mark Spence: God is very purposeful with His children.
• 43:27
  Mark Spence: And finally, I just remember a missionary who was in Peru and as he was in Peru, he got picked up by the police and the police were pulling him to the police station and he was asked the question by the police officer.
• 43:41
  Mark Spence: He says are you afraid?
• 43:43
  Mark Spence: You look afraid, are you afraid?
• 43:45
  Mark Spence: The missionary said I'm very afraid.
• 43:47
  Mark Spence: He says good, you should be.
• 43:49
  Mark Spence: He said well, no, I'm not afraid for me, I'm afraid for you.
• 43:52
  Mark Spence: Right, that's a focus that we need to have, because when somebody comes up against us, they're not just coming up against us, they're coming up against God's child, and God takes that very personal.
• 44:05
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, At the end of the day, it comes down to trust, doesn't it Ray?
• 44:08
  Emeal Zwayne: Trusting the Lord with our lives.
• 44:10
  Ray Comfort: Those slay me.
• 44:11
  Ray Comfort: Yeah, well, I trust them yeah.
• 44:14
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, and Mark, that's a quote from the book of Job.
• 44:17
  Ray Comfort: I'm not saying it Mark.
• 44:20
  Emeal Zwayne: It just reminds me of a quote by Thomas Watson in the book the Art of Divine Contentment.
• 44:24
  Emeal Zwayne: He said a contended Christian does not go to choose his cross but leaves God to choose for him.
• 44:31
  Emeal Zwayne: He is content both for the kind of the affliction and the duration of the affliction.
• 44:36
  Emeal Zwayne: A contented spirit says let God apply whatever medicine he pleases and let it lie on as long as it will.
• 44:43
  Emeal Zwayne: I know when it has done its cure and eaten the venom of sin out of my heart, god will take it away.
• 44:50
  Emeal Zwayne: And Ray, as we wrap up here, your name is Ray Comfort Comfort, but you went through a very, very uncomfortable, difficult, painful trial.
• 45:03
  Ray Comfort: Which one are you talking about?
• 45:05
  Emeal Zwayne: This one right now, when an Arab became your son, when you went through the agarophobia yeah, that you went through and that was devastating for your life, but God did a lot and you threw it.
• 45:19
  Ray Comfort: Oh yeah, he broke me Absolutely, destroyed me this was before the ministry really took off.
• 45:24
  Ray Comfort: Yes, before the ministry took off, and I remember reading a quote, I think it was toes of for God uses man, god breaks a man.
• 45:30
  Ray Comfort: Mark's taking pictures of me.
• 45:31
  Ray Comfort: That's your phone.
• 45:32
  Ray Comfort: It's on my phone.
• 45:33
  Ray Comfort: Get rid of it.
• 45:35
  Emeal Zwayne: What a pain.
• 45:36
  Ray Comfort: He's a continual irritation.
• 45:39
  Emeal Zwayne: Mark's your cross.
• 45:40
  Ray Comfort: He's creating a pearl in me.
• 45:44
  Ray Comfort: He's in the oyster shell, always picking on me, but I love it, yeah.
• 45:48
  Ray Comfort: So whatever I said was really great.
• 45:50
  Emeal Zwayne: Oh, you were in the oyster shell Ray.
• 45:52
  Emeal Zwayne: You were quoting someone or saying something.
• 45:54
  Ray Comfort: Oh, AW Tozer said before God uses a man, God breaks a man.
• 45:58
  Ray Comfort: And that gave me great consolation, because I ended up broken yeah.
• 46:01
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, it was severe.
• 46:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Three when you went through.
• 46:04
  Emeal Zwayne: Yeah, so, oscar, what's the big takeaway from the day in light of the Elliott's and their extraordinary example?
• 46:11
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, again, we've mentioned how biblical characters didn't see the end of the story, but you know, the same is true with extra biblical characters.
• 46:22
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, they didn't fully see it, at least Jim didn't.
• 46:26
  Emeal Zwayne: Elizabeth got to see some of it, but her life is still bearing fruit.
• 46:30
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, you mentioned those three, three leaders.
• 46:33
  Oscar Navarro: I think, especially right now, like you don't need to go to some Ecuadorian jungle to experience danger and to preach the gospel.
• 46:41
  Oscar Navarro: We're in it, we are living.
• 46:43
  Oscar Navarro: If you're here, I mean, I recognize that this podcast goes out all over the world and so maybe you're living in emissions field, it's like that, and that's your hometown for us in the United States.
• 46:51
  Oscar Navarro: Let me talk to us in the United States for a second.
• 46:53
  Oscar Navarro: Here we are living in a kind of Babylon.
• 46:55
  Oscar Navarro: We are exiles and we need to be evangelists as exiles.
• 47:00
  Oscar Navarro: We are living in a foreign land.
• 47:02
  Oscar Navarro: This is not our home, and I think that's the key thing that we have to remember is that we are, every single one of us, exiles.
• 47:09
  Oscar Navarro: This is not our home and God has called us to be faithful, to be on mission.
• 47:14
  Oscar Navarro: But man, that's exciting and good news.
• 47:16
  Oscar Navarro: There are so many of us out there living without purpose, living to do nothing else but to pursue comfort in our own life, and that is a boring, horrible life to live.
• 47:31
  Oscar Navarro: But the Christian is born again, saved from sin and put on mission for the glory of God and the good of our neighbors.
• 47:38
  Oscar Navarro: That means that your life has purpose and that purpose is to proclaim the exilences of the one who brought you out of death into life.
• 47:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Amen.
• 47:48
  Emeal Zwayne: Well put, oscar.
• 47:49
  Emeal Zwayne: And yeah, friends recognize that we are on a mission field.
• 47:55
  Emeal Zwayne: I mean, ray, you put it well, with the universities today, we used to be able to say, maybe 10 years ago, people are gospel hardened.
• 48:03
  Emeal Zwayne: Now I feel like it's come full circle.
• 48:05
  Emeal Zwayne: People are gospel ignorant.
• 48:07
  Emeal Zwayne: This young generation are gospel ignorant, boy.
• 48:10
  Emeal Zwayne: They are disconnected from the foundations of God's Word and even the basics of the gospel.
• 48:15
  Emeal Zwayne: And so we have a mission field here, amen.
• 48:18
  Emeal Zwayne: If you feel called elsewhere, be faithful here and let the Lord then send you on.
• 48:22
  Emeal Zwayne: All right, friends.
• 48:24
  Emeal Zwayne: Wow, that was powerful.
• 48:25
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought I'd make it through without crying.
• 48:27
  Emeal Zwayne: I didn't, but I never thought you had a chance.
• 48:30
  Emeal Zwayne: I thought I might, but I will cry if you don't get the curved illusion tracked.
• 48:34
  Emeal Zwayne: Make sure to check them out.
• 48:35
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• 48:39
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• 48:41
  Emeal Zwayne: Study Bible, oh, and the Living Waters podcast mug that is sitting on our tables here so beautifully.
• 48:47
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• 48:49
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• 48:50
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• 48:52
  Emeal Zwayne: So you can flick our faces with your finger, flick our faces, do tic-tac-toe with our faces, whatever you want to do, and make sure to send us your thoughts and comments to podcastatlivingwaterscom.
• 49:02
  Emeal Zwayne: Give us ratings and comments on the platform where you listen.
• 49:07
  Emeal Zwayne: Thank you for joining us, friends.
• 49:08
  Emeal Zwayne: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast, where especially Mark, as he stares at me now, has no idea what he's doing.
• 49:19
  Emeal Zwayne: What he's doing, that was funny.